Re: [lfs-support] the new Linux Subsystem in Win 10

[Ken Moffat]

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 01:35:54AM -0500, Rob wrote:
> Last year I heard that M$ was including a Ubuntu-based subsystem in its 
> Windows 10 product. I wasn't sure this was actually going to work very well, 
> but apparently it does.
> Can this be used to build LFS? I'm not sure it can because of the ext* file 
> systems you would need, but i'm curious nonetheless.

The lack of ext* filesystems sounds a bit fatal - you would need to
create an LFS filesystem which could eventually be booted, and I
can't think of any 'doze filesystems which work well enough to do
that.  But the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and perhaps
you could create an fs first, from a live CD - seems like a waste of
time that could be used for other things, but if it scratches your
itch them feel free to burn cycles on it.  All sorts of experiences
which are ultimately futile can have a learning component ;)

ĸen
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Re: [lfs-support] the new Linux Subsystem in Win 10

[Douglas R. Reno]

On Apr 29, 2017 4:47 AM, "Simon Geard"  wrote:

On Sat, 2017-04-29 at 01:35 -0500, Rob wrote:
> Last year I heard that M$ was including a Ubuntu-based subsystem in
> its Windows 10 product. I wasn't sure this was actually going to work
> very well, but apparently it does.
> Can this be used to build LFS? I'm not sure it can because of the
> ext* file systems you would need, but i'm curious nonetheless.

Interesting question. From what I've read of it, the mechanism
basically involves having the Windows kernel expose an implementation
of the Linux syscall interfaces... so to userspace, it's just Linux
binaries talking to what they think is a Linux kernel.

That said, I don't know whether the emulation goes far enough to do an
LFS build... e.g. does it provide support for /sys or /proc or kernel
interfaces other than syscalls? It's designed to make life easier for
developers porting server apps between Windows and Linux, but such apps
don't generally need those interfaces - they just need glibc to work -
so the emulation may not be sufficient for everything.


/proc, /sys, and /dev are implemented. It actually boots Upstart when
executing the subsystem. I at least remember that much
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Re: [lfs-support] the new Linux Subsystem in Win 10

[Paul Rogers]

> Last year I heard that M$ was including a Ubuntu-based subsystem in its
> Windows 10 product. I wasn't sure this was actually going to work very
> well, but apparently it does.

The impression I got was this is something they have for their version
of virtualized containers in servers to compete with AWS, et al.
-- 
Paul Rogers
paulgrog...@fastmail.fm
Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates."
(I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-)

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Re: [lfs-support] the new Linux Subsystem in Win 10

[Simon Geard]

On Sat, 2017-04-29 at 01:35 -0500, Rob wrote:
> Last year I heard that M$ was including a Ubuntu-based subsystem in
> its Windows 10 product. I wasn't sure this was actually going to work
> very well, but apparently it does.
> Can this be used to build LFS? I'm not sure it can because of the
> ext* file systems you would need, but i'm curious nonetheless.

Interesting question. From what I've read of it, the mechanism
basically involves having the Windows kernel expose an implementation
of the Linux syscall interfaces... so to userspace, it's just Linux
binaries talking to what they think is a Linux kernel.

That said, I don't know whether the emulation goes far enough to do an
LFS build... e.g. does it provide support for /sys or /proc or kernel
interfaces other than syscalls? It's designed to make life easier for
developers porting server apps between Windows and Linux, but such apps
don't generally need those interfaces - they just need glibc to work -
so the emulation may not be sufficient for everything...

Simon.

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Re: [lfs-support] the new Linux Subsystem in Win 10

[Douglas R. Reno]

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 1:35 AM, Rob  wrote:

> Last year I heard that M$ was including a Ubuntu-based subsystem in its
> Windows 10 product. I wasn't sure this was actually going to work very
> well, but apparently it does.
> Can this be used to build LFS? I'm not sure it can because of the ext*
> file systems you would need, but i'm curious nonetheless.
>

I had the same idea, but didn't get around to it. Probably could at least
use it as a chroot system...
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Re: [lfs-support] Using an SSD with LFS

[akhiezer]

> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 07:32:00 +0100
> From: lf...@cruziero.com (akhiezer)
>
> > Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 23:57:11 -0400
> > From: Michael Shell 
> >
> > On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 00:29:00 +0100
> > Ken Moffat  wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks to both of you for this thread - I had assumed that only
> > > DataCenter-grade products (as in "unaffordable") were nvme, and those
> > > (of course) have ridiculous prices.
> >
> >
> > Bearing in mind that I haven't played with SSD's (yet), but looking
> > around the web I found this:
> >
> > https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820236156
> >
> > Corsair Force MP500 M.2 2280 120GB, M.2 2280, PCI-Express 3.0 x4,
> > for $85 (they do have larger versions). Pulls < 5 Watts so it should
> > run cool.
> >
> > And also:
> >
> > https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124167_re=PCIe_M.2_adapter-_-15-124-167-_-Product
> >
> > a Syba SI-PEX40110 M.2 PCI-e SSD to PCI-e bus adapter card.
> > Will work with PCI-e versions below 3.0, although with some speed loss.
> > From the reviews, it seems that the integrated M.2 slot on some
> > motherboards is not as fast as it could be (800Mb/s read versus
> > 3072Mb/s with the card) and so this $15 card can greatly speed things
> > up in those cases as well as keep the SSD cooler if the motherboard's
> > M.2 slot is close to the graphics card, CPU, etc.
> >
>
>
> (yikes...) where to begin ...
>
> * there's also many reports of m.2 boards heating up too much - and
>   throttling performance back down - when in a pci-e mount-card.
>
> * corsair ... borderline already; but compound it w/ lesser-reputation
>   syba; not good.
>
> * samsung evo 850 sata III 500g ssd will serve very well.
>
> * (consumer-reach) nvme stuff still (imho) has too many ifs'n'buts and
>   not- clear-cut-enough advantages, to be worth paying anything like a
>   premium for - whether in terms of cash or time 


 - ie the consumer-reach/lower-end, for nvme/pcie-addins/m2, is still
quite rough-terrain: the bumps are not nearly as smoothed-out as for
the sata drives.


>
> * anandtech reviews of the samsung 9xx & 8xx nvme/ssd products, are a


s/ssd/sata/ - ie re the _interface_ .


>   good solid base for starting-off on spec/purchasing decisions.
>
> * 
>



akh





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[lfs-support] the new Linux Subsystem in Win 10

[Rob]

Last year I heard that M$ was including a Ubuntu-based subsystem in its Windows 
10 product. I wasn't sure this was actually going to work very well, but 
apparently it does.
Can this be used to build LFS? I'm not sure it can because of the ext* file 
systems you would need, but i'm curious nonetheless.
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Re: [lfs-support] Using an SSD with LFS

[akhiezer]

> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 23:57:11 -0400
> From: Michael Shell 
>
> On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 00:29:00 +0100
> Ken Moffat  wrote:
>
> > Thanks to both of you for this thread - I had assumed that only
> > DataCenter-grade products (as in "unaffordable") were nvme, and those
> > (of course) have ridiculous prices.
>
>
> Bearing in mind that I haven't played with SSD's (yet), but looking
> around the web I found this:
>
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820236156
>
> Corsair Force MP500 M.2 2280 120GB, M.2 2280, PCI-Express 3.0 x4,
> for $85 (they do have larger versions). Pulls < 5 Watts so it should
> run cool.
>
> And also:
>
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124167_re=PCIe_M.2_adapter-_-15-124-167-_-Product
>
> a Syba SI-PEX40110 M.2 PCI-e SSD to PCI-e bus adapter card.
> Will work with PCI-e versions below 3.0, although with some speed loss.
> From the reviews, it seems that the integrated M.2 slot on some
> motherboards is not as fast as it could be (800Mb/s read versus
> 3072Mb/s with the card) and so this $15 card can greatly speed things
> up in those cases as well as keep the SSD cooler if the motherboard's
> M.2 slot is close to the graphics card, CPU, etc.
>


(yikes...) where to begin ...

* there's also many reports of m.2 boards heating up too much - and
  throttling performance back down - when in a pci-e mount-card.

* corsair ... borderline already; but compound it w/ lesser-reputation
  syba; not good.

* samsung evo 850 sata III 500g ssd will serve very well.

* (consumer-reach) nvme stuff still (imho) has too many ifs'n'buts and
  not- clear-cut-enough advantages, to be worth paying anything like a
  premium for - whether in terms of cash or time 

* anandtech reviews of the samsung 9xx & 8xx nvme/ssd products, are a
  good solid base for starting-off on spec/purchasing decisions.

* 



hth,
akh





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