Re: [liberationtech] NSA-GCHQ meeting on Tor (with slides!)
On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 10:19 PM, Kyle Maxwell wrote: > NSA culture discourages employees from being open about where they > work. Most will say "Department of Defense" or, in some cases, "Ft > Meade". So the fact that you've not met people who openly disclose > their affiliation with NSA doesn't *necessarily* mean that you've not > met any NSA engineers / CS types. I wrote “someone collaborating with GCHQ”, not “someone working at GCHQ”. For instance, I have seen an NSA internship listed on an acquaintance's grad student's CV, but his work didn't strike me as particularly impressive. Which is my point. -- Maxim Kammerer Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] NSA-GCHQ meeting on Tor (with slides!)
On 04/10/13 16:42, Griffin Boyce wrote: > There are some questions in my mind as to the legitimacy of this > document -- particularly given that a slide is marked 2007, but > references 2012. (In particular, neither Torservers nor TorButton > existed in 2007). I take it you mean this from the first slide: Derived From: [snip] Dated: 20070108 "Dated" could refer to the original derived-from document. But that might be stretching the interpretation a bit.. -- GPG: 4096R/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE git://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] NSA-GCHQ meeting on Tor (with slides!)
Kyle Maxwell wrote > NSA culture discourages employees from being open about where they work. Most > will say > "Department of Defense" or, in some cases, "Ft Meade". So the fact that > you've not met > people who openly disclose their affiliation with NSA doesn't *necessarily* > mean that > you've not met any NSA engineers / CS types. Often true, but not always. I know one such person who, while with NSA, also was the elected Mayor of College Park, Maryland. His constituents knew where he worked, it wasn't a secret. Unexpected to me at the time, but true. -- James S. Tyre Law Offices of James S. Tyre 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) jst...@jstyre.com Policy Fellow, Electronic Frontier Foundation https://www.eff.org -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] NSA-GCHQ meeting on Tor (with slides!)
On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Maxim Kammerer wrote: > After going over the presentation, it seems as if GCHQ did all the > work. Does NSA actually have good computer scientists working for it > (not including mathematicians / cryptographers)? E.g., I have been to > a workshop in London a few months ago (in an unrelated field), and > instantly met someone collaborating with GCHQ. Never met someone > working with NSA, however. NSA's CAE CO program, which could perhaps > be considered their vanguard of academic CS cooperation, is just four > little-known universities / colleges. NSA culture discourages employees from being open about where they work. Most will say "Department of Defense" or, in some cases, "Ft Meade". So the fact that you've not met people who openly disclose their affiliation with NSA doesn't *necessarily* mean that you've not met any NSA engineers / CS types. -- @kylemaxwell -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] NSA-GCHQ meeting on Tor (with slides!)
> I wonder what the current state of affairs is, though. The slides > suggest that the global passive interception infrastructure is not > suitable for correlation-based deanonymization, so NSA/GCHQ need > “access to nodes”. But that was 6 years ago. See also my analysis from last year [1]. Sniffing ~25 selected C-class networks with Tor relays gives your ~25% end-to-end correlation capability. Surely NSA would be able to install 25 designated probes in 6 years. My guess is that they have the capability, but reserve it for high-profile national security targets (see last slide). [1] https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2012-August/025254.html -- Maxim Kammerer Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] NSA-GCHQ meeting on Tor (with slides!)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04/10/13 16:42, Griffin Boyce wrote: > There are some questions in my mind as to the legitimacy of this > document -- particularly given that a slide is marked 2007, but > references 2012. (In particular, neither Torservers nor TorButton > existed in 2007). The first slide is dated "Jun 2012", with the following in a red box: Derived From: NSA/CSSM 1-52 Dated: 20070108 Declassify On: 20370101 The first Egotistical Giraffe slide has a similar red box: Derived From: NSA/CSSM 1-52 Dated: 20070108 Declassify On: 20371101 The Egotistical Giraffe slides use the date 24 October 2012 in an example, and state that the Tor Browser Bundle is based on Firefox 10 ESR, which was true between 12 June 2012 and 22 February 2013. https://blog.torproject.org/category/tags/firefox My guess is that the slides come from 2012 and the Dated field in the red boxes refers to something else - perhaps the start of the programme to which the slides belong? Cheers, Michael -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSTvV0AAoJEBEET9GfxSfMAwYH/R/vvChln81L6erYUQwmlZvs vFrpDx/Pqy7hr0QuH5gLFcROsyqeJoN2Gjub5s5pmvwi/825SuLZ26euD4iwt8bn 0CLd0u+oa3UPcxduMiwJF50VzwjpVQIp+xmYlBFzlVSwLRlm7pQqhHNhBNsrhXOO Hnoro3/xZn5x/osZEvusxh7QlEveqy8rpo9dK5PJe0BsnVu3IPHY5ig1H/ysfiBv boFaL0eRUEftsVHFTZGk5rmK5PXTrfstvv5+CrOXSKt2tjm6ExSVTsVX+TWPVW9d xGDXvX4kprMTe+FgD3KrbSLX4xKjG6rYTUlRvYGU2Xgv8U4nOs1IhaL4tLMgc58= =VlKC -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] NSA-GCHQ meeting on Tor (with slides!)
After going over the presentation, it seems as if GCHQ did all the work. Does NSA actually have good computer scientists working for it (not including mathematicians / cryptographers)? E.g., I have been to a workshop in London a few months ago (in an unrelated field), and instantly met someone collaborating with GCHQ. Never met someone working with NSA, however. NSA's CAE CO program, which could perhaps be considered their vanguard of academic CS cooperation, is just four little-known universities / colleges. I wonder what the current state of affairs is, though. The slides suggest that the global passive interception infrastructure is not suitable for correlation-based deanonymization, so NSA/GCHQ need “access to nodes”. But that was 6 years ago. On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Maxim Kammerer wrote: > On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 7:20 PM, Griffin Boyce wrote: >> I didn't mention the browser bundle ;P > > It is referenced in slide 7, together with Torbutton. > > -- > Maxim Kammerer > Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte -- Maxim Kammerer Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] NSA-GCHQ meeting on Tor (with slides!)
On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 7:20 PM, Griffin Boyce wrote: > I didn't mention the browser bundle ;P It is referenced in slide 7, together with Torbutton. -- Maxim Kammerer Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] NSA-GCHQ meeting on Tor (with slides!)
On 10/04/2013 06:12 PM, Maxim Kammerer wrote: > Both Tor Button and Tor Browser Bundle existed in 2007. I didn't mention the browser bundle ;P -- "Cypherpunks write code not flame wars." --Jurre van Bergen #Foucault / PGP: 0xAE792C97 / OTR: sa...@jabber.ccc.de My posts are my own, not my employer's. -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] NSA-GCHQ meeting on Tor (with slides!)
On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Griffin Boyce wrote: > There are some questions in my mind as to the legitimacy of this > document -- particularly given that a slide is marked 2007, but > references 2012. (In particular, neither Torservers nor TorButton > existed in 2007). Both Tor Button and Tor Browser Bundle existed in 2007. https://gitweb.torproject.org/torbrowser.git/commit/4633a99 https://gitweb.torproject.org/torbutton.git/commit/74cd0da -- Maxim Kammerer Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
[liberationtech] NSA-GCHQ meeting on Tor (with slides!)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 There's been a really interesting document to come out of the Guardian today: http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/oct/04/tor-stinks-nsa-presentation-document Interestingly: - NSA/GCHQ was fingerprinting using Flash - They were wondering whether to flood the network with slow connections in order to discourage users - Cookie leakage - Timing attacks - Supposed bug in TorButton mid last year There are some questions in my mind as to the legitimacy of this document -- particularly given that a slide is marked 2007, but references 2012. (In particular, neither Torservers nor TorButton existed in 2007). Thoughts? ~Griffin - -- "Cypherpunks write code not flame wars." --Jurre van Bergen #Foucault / PGP: 0xAE792C97 / OTR: sa...@jabber.ccc.de My posts are my own, not my employer's. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSTuH3AAoJEOMx/SmueSyXyBwP/0R3qiUS29fVBkA/A7Yb7iAo Z4v+ODDMlqMW0cHiugEFAFd4hiUGjeU6uO3lL1SC5V18If4v5BY6Gdfr7FEtSZy/ ch7vVIrOtfzy4CutWuu26X7M/35RJKU4NBKjgUdtZEq0ALU/5+bAHGl9+KESX42U UP3BZMRtyUlUUP4AB3sXc/ym0Oh95nLbnhEFAEKTWR2KAbV2olCW4t25vRQg2ZA0 lzd80prDSkmnwOIyPSuyAyVsx8tqaHd1J0evtVQbSRPzGrC5y/JKaagwcg8dCscN jOuEogPOGn/Xz9BUljFBwKSXXO4jItYCsM84VdPK7cRbPgtO4gi+azKbr4AcucLl G2DvsaNvYJBt9xj406jIiVeNDx3pYNryvikb9yXUm7GypLZg3qdJT0FDvTJTEg7n srRFxEiPj+hVdwYwHM9j020Le2ha4DafktAEpkXP9YXRGEE6XqNCjqUgXIVB5/gm v/AJn1XiJP9gQnsHhibC10AHv1AlQXHRzoqn1HMaH8U8PjBgrR+7LuF1cl+f+6DK fnj+7Uf2tJ1ijzO0fH/mK8bbyrXZU/HdpGsH6DLUeUi2AiG+7P4O7Wr49vx3xlap B/hcrckYu3N1L/sNDOZmkNgQi3GMWdpjM5nzYOR+xaTSJTD6FmBsjMSvT6pOgOmW 9b6m8AcZTkC0g+jSj5jU =1oYL -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
