Question regarding LO 7.1 release notes: Did any previously "experimental features" mature?
Dear all, with regard to the release notes for LibreOffice 7.1 I'd like to pose following question: Several features in release 7.0 (and before) were marked as "experimental" and, thus, accessible only in experimental mode. Did any of these features mature and move out of experimental status for 7.1.? 7.0 * Accessibility check tool to review common accessibility problems in documents, and support for PDF/UA specifications in the PDF export dialog * 1024 columns in Calc [not in release notes, since marked as highly experimental] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50916 6.4 * Firebird embedded database creation put back experimental considering the number of bugs 6.2 * SVG icon sets. These icon sets are considered an experimental feature 6.0 * OpenPGP-based document encryption 5.3 * In Writer, the section Manage Changes was added on the Sidebar * "Default Shapes Panel" in the new Shapes Deck (currently experimental) for Draw * Toolbar control to insert Emojis * Document themes [not in release notes, since marked as highly experimental] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90497 4.2 * Live data streaming (Data ▸ Streams...). * Accessibility bridge supporting IAccessible2 (IA2) * Multi-threaded import for XLSX documents 4.0 * Send via Bluetooth (experimental) feature 3.6 * Macro scripting Best, Gerry ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Is there any effort or discussion yet about collaborative use of libreoffice applications?
Hi Michael, in the medium/long run, the *ODFDOM changes* approach might be quite promising for both LibreOffice desktop and Libre/CollaboraOffice Online. Probably still enormous effort in the LibreOffice core, but it seems to be a future-proof concept. The concept that Svante has been working on aims at exchanging changes and is cross-application, ultimately a part of the ODF standard. This seems to put the level of collaborative editing much higher. It would be great if LibreOffice is one of the pilot apps for the approach. The description of the concept and code is here: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133984#c8 and https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133984 Here two presentations on the approach: * https://libocon.org/assets/Conference/Almeria/Svante-Interoperable-Office-CollaborationwithNotes.pdf Presentation 2019 on Interoperable Office Collaboration (Svante Schubert) * https://github.com/svanteschubert/odftoolkit/raw/odf-changes/LibOCon2018%20%20-%20Interoperable%20Office%20Collaboration.pdf Presentation 2018 on Interoperable Office Collaboration by Svante Schubert (more detailed than 2019 presentation) Best, Gerry Am 15.12.20 um 18:09 schrieb Michael Meeks: > Hi Marc, > > A few thoughts on this thread: > > On 15/12/2020 11:36, Marc Roos wrote: >>> What I was getting at was a way to make a fat client collaborative. >> Calc has a share option now not ? > This is a development mailing list; it is great to ask questions around > the code. There are two approaches to Collaboration as you've seen the > COOL approach (poke in #cool-dev on IRC), and the Telepathy approach > that Caolan kindly pointed to below inside LibreOffice. > >> Where multiple users should be able to >> edit the same version. I think that is nice, I prefer to have such a >> thing more for write, but it is a nice start. I think it is not 100% ok, >> because I did not get any updated changes of others, or I am not using >> it correctly. > The telepathy prototype is no longer included - but the patch Caolan > pointed at has an attempt to pull out a set of 'operations' that might > work for spreadsheets, and could be built on. I expect some of the core > re-factoring to make this easier is still present. > > This mailing list is a great for developers to discuss resurrecting and > extending that - it's a generally useful feature - although it is really > far from trivial to implement, even with the synchronous event model > that was imagined and integral to the Telepathy attempt. > > Personally I'd recommend trying instead to make LOK more deterministic, > and doing this at the LOK user / input event layer: but even that is > rather tricky - consider a sort of some data via a column populated with > =RAND() as a banal example - and needing to synchronize that across > multiple users. > > Anyhow - I'm happy to help with any code suggestions / reviews as/when > you have a core build and are ready to go there. I would recommend reading: > > https://people.gnome.org/~michael/data/2013-10-09-collaboration.pdf > > first for some more background. We chose to go a different route with > Collabora Online - which should be much easier - but like anything > complex in practice is really hard to get right too =) > > HTH, > > Michael. > >> -Original Message- >> From: Caolán McNamara [mailto:caol...@redhat.com] >> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 9:41 PM >> To: Stu >> Cc: libreoffice >> Subject: Re: Is there any effort or discussion yet about collaborative >> use of libreoffice applications? >> >> On Sun, 2020-12-13 at 07:56 -0500, Stu wrote: >>> What I was getting at was a way to make a fat client collaborative. >> For a while we have an experimental --enable-telepathy option, so >> searching for "telepathy libreoffice" will throw up some old attempts >> similar to that. e.g. >> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62722 but eventually >> effort in that direction was dropped with >> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=b7b159d79c2b4ec53915e0b9c3e28912c289a5ba ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Is there any effort or discussion yet about collaborative use of libreoffice applications?
Hi Stu, your question on collaborative use of LibreOffice is a very valid question. I think no one doubts the need for proper support of collaborative editing in LibreOffice. For LibreOffice (desktop) it is necessary in order to be competitive and a requirement that it can be used in workgroups. In my work environment, there is barely any complex document, which is not shared and collaboratively edited in the team (MS-based, unfortunately LibreOffice desktop does not support this). I agree to your statement that fat clients (and here you mean LibreOffice desktop) will always be superior and thus need support for collaborative editing earlier or later. The problem is that the implementation of collaborative editing in LibreOffice (desktop) is rather complex as it requires an advanced internal change tracking system. This is a substantial effort. That's why no one dares to actually start this in the LibreOffice desktop code. There are efforts, though: Please see bug 133984: "Enhancement: Support for real-time and offline collaborative editing in LibreOffice (desktop)".The bug description lists a number of ressources for collaborative editing in LibreOffice. See the bug description: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133984. The most notable work done recently is the work by Svante which he describes here: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133984#c8 Maybe your idea links nicely to these efforts. I hope that the massive undertaking of supporting collaborative editing in LibreOffice (desktop) starts earlier than later. Best, Gerry > Well, I wasn't trying to start a flamewar or a drama episode or anything. I > didn't know collabawhatever was a thing. > but a) it looks like a commercial product? b) it sounds like they just run > libreoffice on a web server and project the instance to whoever's on that > webpage. c) somebody has to supply the 'cloud' that it runs on. > I'm a big fan of fat clients. ms word and libre office will always be > superior to google docs (in my opinion only obviously) because it runs > locally on my machine. What I was getting at was a way to make a fat client > collaborative. > But if there's no interest, I'll drop it. > Thanks for the info. On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 9:07 AM Marc Roos https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice>> wrote: >//>/:) No but is really a question. I want to try a bit this libre office >/>/online and I am not even able to get a simple test environment running >/>/that creates a odt file that I can edit from multiple clients. />/Even the >manual of libre online online ~50% writing about other />/products/services. >/>//>//>//>//>/-Original Message- />/Cc: nixo; libreoffice />/Subject: >Re: Is there any effort or discussion yet about collaborative />/use of >libreoffice applications? />//>//>//>/Why do people send collabra office stuff >on a libre office mailing />/list The question is clearly about libre >office. />//>//>//>/Oh sorry then. I will now go back in the corner to enjoy >my popcorn. />//>/--tml />//>//>//> ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Toolbar Proposal Completed
Hi Jay, hi all, thanks a lot for your work with the toolbar proposal. I had a look at the screenshots and the coments on this list. I would like to add a few comments, too. I also wanted to send it to the UX mailing list, but I could not find Jay's related email there. First, I like the grouping of icons. I think it is a good idea that everything is accessible and the interface clean. However, I understand the criticism that some people may not find their buttons anymore. Hence, it would be perfect, if there is a super-simple method to permanently add buttons out of a group to the toolbar. The best method would be if the icon from the group can be simply put there by dragdrop. Then the user has his/her preferred icon again on the toolbar. Such an easy mechanism will save lots of headaches on all sides. There are two icons, I would definitively not remove from the default set. Please don't remove: * New file icon which currently is on the top left side of the toolbar. I have seen lots of people using it and it shows the excellent integration of all office components (which is a big plus compared to MS Office!). People will be very confused if they do not easily find their way of starting a new document. Think of the confusion about the backstage-flower in MS Office 2007. People had been revolting that they did not find new, open, save and print. * Styles and formatting currently on the second row left side of the toolbar. If statistically people are not using this button enough, it is a matter to promote this button more, as the reliance on styles is LibreOffice's big strength. (taken from the OSBA-funding site, additionally chart styles and object styles are in development. Table styles in Writer and Calc are still missing, though). A general question: How does the toolbar proposal integrate with the new sidebar? Best greetings, Gerry Am 26.07.2014 06:08, schrieb Jay Philips: ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-qa] Testing for bug 81592: Bad Quality/Rendering of EPS graphics in LO 4.2 and 4.3 (regression)
Dear all, LibreOffice is facing a regression with regards to the quality/rendering of EPS graphics in LO 4.24.3 (https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=81592). While the rendering quality of EPS in LO 4.0/4.1 was 'production quality', the rendering in 4.2 4.3 regressed and is unusable for publishing. The issue exists in rendering on screen, printing, PDF export as well as with existing documents or newly inserted EPS graphics. From my viewpoint, it is a terrible bug, because the graphics of statistical software (Stata, SPSS) always showed best quality when exported as EPS and inserted in LibreOffice. All existing documents and prepared EPS graphics are not really usable anymore on 4.2.x and later. Hence, I am stuck with LO 4.1.x which is EOL and less performant and stable (and is missing a few important features) than 4.2.x and 4.3.x. Hence, I seriously hope that this bug can be fixed for the last version of the 4.2 line, which is version 4.2.7. I approach the QA list for this, because the bug has been tested and confirmed so far only on Ubuntu 12.04 and Ubuntu 13.04 and I would like to kindly ask you to perform tests on EPS quality with new distribution versions, such as Ubuntu 14.04, 14.10Beta as well as Fedora, Debian or others. For the generation of the EPS representation in LibreOffice, the library /pstoedit/ is used and it is possible that newer versions of pstoedit give better output. I would be glad if you could try to reproduce the bug following the steps in the bug description. Please also try the pstoedit command and instructions as given by Caolan in comment 4. I hope that someone finds a solution for this regression bug. Thanks a lot, Gerry ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-qa] regarding bug: Moving graphic frame always freezes Writer
Hi there, I'd like to contact the list regarding a crasher bug in Writer that bugs me a lot, because I think many of the crashes I get with a long document I am working on are somewhat related to this bug. And, unfortunately, LibreOffice 4.1.x is not super stable with long documents compared to e.g. old OpenOffice.org 3.2 which I think was very stable. In this bug ( https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76985 ), LibreOffice reproducible freezes when graphic frame borders are overlapping. This happens deliberately like described in the bug report, but also accidentially when e.g. a graphic flows to the next page when text was entered above. The bug was reproduced by Dominique and set to NEW, but unfortunately it has not received further attention. The bug exists in all LO versions I tested (incl. 4.3Beta1). I would be glad if someone could have a look at this crasher bug and it would be super perfect if the fix could already go to version 3.2.5 (because then I had a stable version working with). Thanks a lot in advance! Please tell me if you need any further information. Best greetings, Gerry ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Calc conditional formatting icon set: color smilies
Dear Markus, dear all, in reference to bug/enhancement 60107 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60107 and Markus' comment 17 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60107, I am sending the icon set 'color smilies' for Calc's conditional formatting feature to the dev list. The icon set can be found here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/2/21/Icon-set-color-smilies.svg The icons are based on Zorro's work at OpenClipart: http://openclipart.org/detail/100759/smiley-by-zorro. They are licensed as public domain: http://openclipart.org/share. I made several modifications to Zorro's work (selection of three smilies, bolder/wider smiles and in different colors). My modifications are also public domain/CC0. Regards, Gerry. ** https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60107 ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Calc conditional formatting icon set: smilies
Dear Markus, dear all, additionally to my previous email regarding a coloured smilies icon set for bug/enhancement 60107 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60107, there is also the icon set 'smilies' (just yellow) to be included in the Calc conditional formatting feature. The icon set can be found here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/9/9f/Smilies-with-thicker-smiles.svg These icons are also based on Zorro's work at OpenClipart: http://openclipart.org/detail/100759/smiley-by-zorro. They are licensed as public domain: http://openclipart.org/share. I made a few modifications to Zorro's work (selection of three smilies bolder/wider smiles). My modifications are also public domain/CC0. Regards, Gerry. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Feature comparison: LibreOffice - Microsoft Office in the Wiki
Hi Philipp, [...] I finished creating a table that compares the major points for both word processors as a proof of concept. Should I continue with that work also for Calc and Impress? In addition, I am not sure how to integrate the minor points... Maybe just adding them to the table as well... Or should I start a second table so that it is easier to differentiate between major and minor differences? What do you think? I just had a look at the table. It looks great and it is also much easier to grasp the differences between LO and MS Office. I think you can continue with the other Calc and Impress as the table looks really very good. Regarding minor features, I think, they can be added to the table under a separator (e.g. a grey row with the title Minor feature differences or something similar) indicating that the following items are minor differences. Is it possible to disable the sorting function of the table || because it does not really make sense in this table. Best greetings, Gerry P.S. BTW, is the lack of XML import / export in LibreOffice 2.6 actually true or is LO capable of XML import/export? ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Feature comparison: LibreOffice - Microsoft Office in the Wiki
Dear all, please find a first draft of a comprehensive feature comparison between LibreOffice 3.6 and Microsoft Office 2010 in the Documentfoundation wiki: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Feature_Comparison:_LibreOffice_-_Microsoft_Office Please feel free to use or change the information in any way you like. Best greetings, Gerry ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Feature comparison: LibreOffice - Microsoft Office in the Wiki
Dear Philipp, [...] Thank you for your work so far! Pretty impressive! Might also help the marketing guys a lot for their next big advertisement campain (LO4?). Coming from academia, most of the texts are too long for me to read ;-) Would it be possible to make a TL;DR version? Maybe a table with LO on the left and MSO on the right and green background for a column where A outperforms B? Next weekend I have some spare time again and could help with that/ provide a draft if you like. Philipp This is a very good idea. Not many people read lengthy bullet point lists. My graphical skills are limited, though, so the provision of a draft sounds perfect. I assume that you want to limit the focus of a table on the major features (or even a selection out of it) or do you plan to cover all major and minor features in such a table? Best greetings, Gerry ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Feature comparison: LibreOffice - Microsoft Office in the Wiki
Hi Philipp, [...]I would suggest (kind of how you did already) to group the pro and cons per product/ application type. As a result, someone who is only interested in e.g. Calc vs. Excel might get the info on one page. By linking each point/line to a more detailed explanation further below, we might combine a quick overview with fully phrased content... Will see what I can do next Friday. [...] Your idea sounds very good. [...] Sorry, just an idea, did not check that yet: Did you already include the information from http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/3.5 and http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/3.6 in your list? [...] Yes, everything relevant from the Release notes should be already in the list. Greetings, Gerry ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
