Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Moving to LibreOffice 8?

[Pedro Rosmaninho]

I would just like to counter what Eyal Rosenberg says. Version number
should be a marketing decision.
But I agree with his points that marketing must consider that major
innovations or missing features should be included with a major number
change otherwise said number change will fall flat.
The number 8 is a great opportunity so it shouldn't be wasted without
having something impactful when it is launched.


Regina Henschel  escreveu no dia terça, 28/03/2023
à(s) 15:40:

> Hi Italo,
>
> the change from 6.x to 7.0 happens together with the change from ODF 1.2
> to ODF 1.3. If the decision it to keep this kind of numbering, I think a
> change to 8.0 should happen when LibreOffice starts support for ODF 1.4.
> ODF 1.4 will hopefully be released end of 2024.
>
> Kind regards,
> Regina
>
> Italo Vignoli schrieb am 27.03.2023 um 19:11:
> > Moving to LibreOffice 8 (instead of 7.6) makes sense for marketing
> > purposes, as media is looking at LibreOffice as the real innovator in
> > the open source office suite market, and the feeling of journalists is
> > that we are forever stuck at 7.x.
> >
> > We all know that the next version will not include any significant
> > innovation which can justify the change of version, apart from the new
> > build system for Windows and the availability of LibreOffice for Arm
> > processors on Windows (which has not been announced).
> >
> > Playing with the number 8, which can be rotated 90° to become the
> > "infinite" symbol, we can frame the next version as LibreOffice for an
> > infinite number of users, as we cover all hardware platforms and all
> > operating systems for personal productivity.
> >
> > This is my opinion. If the community wants to stick with 7.6, I won't
> > insist. I have received enough insults both public and private for the
> > marketing plan, and I am still receiving them from a few people, that I
> > am not willing to enter into that process again (even if the decision on
> > the "community" tag has not been mine, but it looks like people have a
> > very short memory).
> >
> > Looking forward to your thoughts.
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018-Sep-05

[Pedro Rosmaninho]

That's all very nice but... Who fixes it?
It´s nice to vote to keep something in, but when that something is
constantly breaking and there's minimal dev interest to fix or improve it
(and it needs some dire improvements) why keep it then? Would any of the
people in favor be willing to fix it and improve it? It's as simple as that.

On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 1:50 PM Halmai, Csongor  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> from my personal perspective, I don't use personas, I never did. But...
>
> I taught hundreds of people, children and adults as well and I can say
> most people like "funny little harmless" things
> like this.
>
> Just imagine how many users change their desktop background, even if they
> cannot see it the whole day. They simply just
> like personalize it. I think such a little thing that makes LO more
> attractive for the newcomers, should be kept.
>
> If it breaks then it should be fixed.
>
> Csongor
>
>
>
>
> On 2018.09.12. 3:44, infinitytec wrote:
> > I'd have to agree with the idea of removing Personas. Why? Because they
> keep breaking. A couple of prebuilt solid themes would do the trick. Allow
> people to make and tweak themes as well, and even add images. It could,
> perhaps, still be compatible with the Persona system, but rely only on LO
> to function, as I know some issues have been caused on Mozilla's end.
> >
> >
> > Any sufficiently advanced technology is magic to those who do not
> understand it.-A variation on Clarke's Third Law
> >  Original message From: Jean-Francois Nifenecker <
> jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net> Date: 9/11/18  12:22 PM
> (GMT-06:00) To: "Роман К." <79045_79...@mail.ru>, Pedro Rosmaninho <
> mota.pr...@gmail.com> Cc: sberg...@redhat.com,
> des...@global.libreoffice.org, libreoffice-dev <
> libreoffice@lists.freedesktop.org>, "kainz.a" 
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from
> the
> >design meeting 2018-Sep-05
> > Le 06/09/2018 à 12:32, Роман К. a écrit :
> >> Hello, all. I agree with "killing" Firefox personas. And I like adding
> just 4-5 solid color themes.
> >>
> > I've (manually) added the LibreOffice 4 Light Ambiance persona from
> > Firefox on my trainer PC
> > (
> https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/libreoffice-4-light-ambiance/?src=search
> ).
> >
> > Adding them is a chore: you've got to use the advanced mode because, as
> > already stated, the UI is not working anymore for a lng time.
> >
> > After having doubts about personas (in fact I was very reluctant to
> > using them), I can tell that it draws attention during training sessions
> ;-)
> >
> > So, I'd strongly vote to keep (and fix) the personas thingy and against
> > having only solid themes.
> >
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018-Sep-05

[Pedro Rosmaninho]

Agreed, I would kill Firefox personas. It works tremendously slow, and it's
not very useful.
Also most personas do not look good with shipped icons. It would be
preferable to adequately offer a dark theme in every OS (Firefox is going
to support W10 dark theme with version 63).
At most offer 4 or 5 color themes (pastel colors based on modules dominant
colors maybe?).

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 8:52 AM kainz.a  wrote:

> I am not sure how many work firefox personas are. In general l would prefer
> different color schemes instead of personas.
>
> Stephan Bergmann  schrieb am Do., 6. Sep. 2018,
> 08:41:
>
> > On 05/09/18 20:49, Heiko Tietze wrote:
> > >   * Personas not found again
> > > + importance high/major!
> > > + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=118881
> > > +
> >
> http://document-foundation-mail-archive.969070.n3.nabble.com/About-Persona-lightweight-themes-td4244320.html
> > > + Options:
> > >   + remove this feature completely
> > >   + don't access images via network but ship a few and make the
> > feature an extension
> > >   + revamp the code to adopt the new API
> > >   + ?
> > > => preference to simplification and extension (Heiko)
> >
> > Not sure from the above what part exactly of the feature you want to
> > turn into an extension (the code itself or the persona data), but one
> > note:  In general, be careful when including new kinds of data content
> > in extensions.  That creates new interfaces between LO and extensions,
> > and those interfaces need to be kept compatible, which is a maintenance
> > burden.
> >
> > --
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>
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Minutes of the design meeting 2018-Jan-31

[Pedro Rosmaninho]

Working on papercut bugs is somewhat crucial.
If the user experience with each module of Libre Office demands that the
user has to use work-arounds to get work done in LO then he will just use
other officesuites where he won't face those same issues.
Getting someone to fix those issues would be crucial.

An example in Calc like the one Renon posted in Impress is this one:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53300

A bug that exists since Open Office days... With LO and the TDF constantly
bragging about having cleaned up so many bugs in LO it's unforgivable that
UX bugs like this one are still lingering from Open Office days.



On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 7:58 PM, Michel RENON 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Le 31/01/2018 à 21:48, Heiko Tietze a écrit :
>
>> [...]
>> GSoC
>>
>>   * Full list of ideas https://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/UX-GSoC_Ideas
>>   * Public list https://wiki.documentfoundatio
>> n.org/Development/GSoC/Ideas#User_Interface
>>
>
> Here are some suggestions based on my recent experience in teaching
> LibreOffice and writing a python macro :
>
>
>
> Impress : work on "papercut" bugs
> --
>
>
> 1 - Animations sets for a text box with several paragraphs don't affect
> new paragraphs (not inherited)
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=57581
>
> This is the most annoying problem that new users face :
>   - they create a slide with few lines of text,
>   - they add an animation on the text, to make it appear line by line
>   - they test : it works correctly
>   - they add one line of text (inside or at the end)
>   - they test and boom... the animation is "broken"
>   - they make a pause, then... close impress and open powerpoint...
>
>
>
> 2 - Editing: Text spacing changes when click in textbox
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89060
>
> It is a subtle but very annoying visual effect.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Python macros
> 
>
>
> I had to create a macro embedded in a file.
> As I had not written basic for a long time, I tried to write it in python.
>
> The fist problem is that on Ubuntu, it is necessary to install a specific
> package 'libreoffice-script-provider-python'
>
>
> The second problem is that, by default, there is no tool to integrate a
> python macro in a document.
> I found the APSO extension [1] that allows that and is very useful.
>
> I found some difficult points in writing python macro with that extension :
>   - after modifying a python script, you have to close and re-open the odf
> file
>   - some inline documentation is missing : about API, and some sample code
>   - the context (available via XSCRIPTCONTEXT) is missing some API,
> compared to basic
>
>
>
>
>
> So here are my suggestions for GSoC :
>   - allow an easy activation of python support : a simple button would
> download and install all necessary packages
>   - integrate the functionality of APSO (to allow embedding/managing
> python script in odf file)
>   - remove the need to re-open the odf file before using a new version of
> python script
>
>
>
> Other points can be done directly in the current extension :
>   - add some inline documentation about API [2]
>   - add inline documentation on both ways to use python script :
> - an external script that connects to LibreOffice
> - an internal script that get called by menu/button
>   - allow to create scripts empty or with comments (that provide minimum
> documentation and good practice)
>   - add a library of sample code (a list of "how-to ?"), that can be
> easily copied in script files
>
>
> Adding API to the context (available via XSCRIPTCONTEXT) can be done by
> working on LibreOffice code :
> /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/pythonscript/py
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Michel
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [1] https://extensions.libreoffice.org/extensions/apso-
> alternative-script-organizer-for-python
>
> [2] based on very useful page https://wiki.openoffice.org/wi
> ki/Python/Transfer_from_Basic_to_Python
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2017-Jan-12

[Pedro Rosmaninho]

Yes, I can imagine. But if it's adapting already designed icons at least
it's easier than redesigning them from the start.
The thing is such an icon set would be suitable for Windows and KDE
systems. The amount of people using it would be quite big. But there must
be someone interested in moving forward with this otherwise it's a
fruitless discussion.

But you guys already identified the issues with the icon set, so it could
be modified based on that.
As for color being reserved for the app level in Breeze you could maybe
argue that LO is such a big and complex software package that it should be
considered differently? It is the second biggest open-source project after
the Linux kernel after all...

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:56 PM, Heiko Tietze <tietze.he...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

> Andreas Kainz is the maintainer of Breeze icons. He did not only
> submit the LibreOffice icons in Breeze style but also most of the
> icons for KDE software. Colors are reserved for the app level in
> Breeze, functions are basically monochrome. I challenged him two years
> ago with the idea of a colorized Breeze set- and will not stop to poke
> him. The colors would need to be defined according the functional
> scope, e.g. style stuff in blue, device things in green etc. Another
> issue with the set reported by users is that line strokes are very
> thin. And we want to have the set in different sizes with a level of
> detail depending on it. Hell of work, altogether.
>
> 2017-01-18 17:38 GMT+01:00 Pedro Rosmaninho <mota.pr...@gmail.com>:
> > Why don'tyou ask for help of the KDE guys to make a new colored Breeze
> > theme? They've created a bunch of colored icons to use on desktop maybe
> LO
> > could use something similar?
> > Or ask them for help to change the icons to increase legibility so that
> it
> > can be adopted as the default theme in Windows? The adoption rate of W10
> has
> > been quite big and occured very fast so adopting a theme that suits it
> > better than to legacy W7 with an ever decreasing market share would make
> > sense...
>
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2017-Jan-12

[Pedro Rosmaninho]

Why don'tyou ask for help of the KDE guys to make a new colored Breeze
theme? They've created a bunch of colored icons to use on desktop maybe LO
could use something similar?
Or ask them for help to change the icons to increase legibility so that it
can be adopted as the default theme in Windows? The adoption rate of W10
has been quite big and occured very fast so adopting a theme that suits it
better than to legacy W7 with an ever decreasing market share would make
sense...

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:22 PM, kainz.a  wrote:

> Hi
>
> 2017-01-12 14:03 GMT+01:00 Heiko Tietze :
>
> > Present: Jay, Tomazs, Kendy, Steve, Heiko
> >
> > Tickets
> >
> >  * Make Breeze the default icon set on Windows
> >+ https://pirati.ca/display/a6551d712873888e843e54a74a8e772a61684afd
> >+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90194
> >+ https://plus.google.com/107566594492891737454/posts/H6W86P19atW
> >  + 60% Yes after one day
> >+ Yes (Tomazs)
> >+ No, because Breeze is not enough colorful and too thin (Jay, Kendy,
> > Heiko)
> >/keep it for now
> >
>
> In Win 7 tango fit's well. I don't know how it will fit in Win 10.
> I can't change the breeze icon geometry, but as everything is svg,
> color changing wouldn't be a problem to fit windows better.
>
>
> >  * Installer icon
> >(last week)
> >+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=103677
> >  https://bug-attachments.documentfoundation.org/
> > attachment.cgi?id=128467
> >+ Double-check if ico contains multiple images (Jay)
> >+ Tango is not really up-to-date and not suitable for Windows (Jay)
> >+ See what other installers use (Jay)
> >+ Revert change like Stuart mentioned (Jay)
> >+ Let's check other installers and decide next week what to do (Heiko)
> >(this week)
> >+ Andreas' solution is good (Kendy)
> >+ leave it as it is as the default is very close to what we have (Jay)
> >/ Make a test first with a nightly build that contains Andreas'
> > solution (Kendy)
> >
>
> I used tango icons for the installer, cause the installer is for windows
> and tango is the default icon set, so the default design language for
> windows.
>
> I can also make a proposal for another design language (breeze, galaxy,
> sifr, ...)
> but I wouldn't prefer to have an installer icon that fit's any LO design
> language.
> So say what you want and I will have a look if I can make it happen.
>
> cheers
> Andreas K
>
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-projects] minutes of ESC call ...

[Pedro Rosmaninho]

Writer:
- Implement Image crop tool similar to the one present in Impress,

Sidebar:
- Implement an Insert subcategory in the Properties tab of the Sidebar in
Writer/Calc/Excel,
- Implement a Data subcategory in the Properties tab of the Sidebar in
Calc,

General
- Allow to use different shapes in cropped images in Writer/Impress/Draw
(besides the rectangle) - similar to Google Docs.

On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Noel Grandin noelgran...@gmail.com wrote:



 On 2015-02-01 02:05 PM, Michel Renon wrote:


 here are some ideas : if you think some might be interesting, tell me and
 I'll make some specs/ux design


 Those are some very good ideas! Even if they don't make the GSOC, they
 should probably be logged in bugzilla.


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