Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-28 Thread Jan Holesovsky
Hi Astron,

Stefan Knorr (Astron) píše v Čt 24. 01. 2013 v 17:28 +0100:

 So, this leads me to believe that we're best of just removing the
 background images feature from 4.0.

I believe I've removed this already for RC1:

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-4-0id=d8e1fed0f6f83d03a5075cfe3c0c6b10a7d4e167

It is still there in master though, so that I can continue on that there
at some stage; are you seeing it in the 4.0 RC1 or later builds, please?

 Again, this is now a feature for after 4.0.

Yes - might be good to create a Whiteboard for that, maybe?

All the best,
Kendy

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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-28 Thread Jan Holesovsky
Hi Astron,

Stefan Knorr (Astron) píše v Čt 24. 01. 2013 v 17:28 +0100:

 So, this leads me to believe that we're best of just removing the
 background images feature from 4.0.

I believe I've removed this already for RC1:

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-4-0id=d8e1fed0f6f83d03a5075cfe3c0c6b10a7d4e167

It is still there in master though, so that I can continue on that there
at some stage; are you seeing it in the 4.0 RC1 or later builds, please?

 Again, this is now a feature for after 4.0.

Yes - might be good to create a Whiteboard for that, maybe?

All the best,
Kendy

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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-24 Thread Stefan Knorr (Astron)
Hi Michel, Kendy,

* sorry this comes so late... *

tldr: The background image UI should really go if it won't work.


On 18 January 2013 10:03, Jan Holesovsky ke...@suse.cz wrote:
 May i make some suggestions on the pref panel ?
 - why not keep the own image to select an image in local hd ?

Hm ... well, for Firefox, there's a persona builder add-on to do that.
I think it can also upload personas, so in a way, that's covered.

Additionally, of course, the background image functionality still
doesn't work in master – so, given how...
* we would need Kendy to work on this functionality, so it actually works
* we would need string changes to point out that background images and
personas are mutually exclusive (as you (Michel) already noticed)

So, this leads me to believe that we're best of just removing the
background images feature from 4.0.

 - if i understand ok (images and personas are exclusive), we can have
 the choices :
   *Toolbar background*
 O Default
 O Image  Select Image...
 O Firefox PersonaSelect Persona...

   (I renamed own image to Image)

Overall, I agree to this structure... and I am actually fine with the
shorter option titles – instead of the long options, a short
introductory text above telling users unaware of the feature what
Personas are would be nice (like Use Personas to customize the
background of your toolbar. not sure if needs any more than that).
Again, this is now a feature for after 4.0.


 - would it be possible to add a preview of image/persona ?
 and a status text if there is an error (error loading image, error
 loading persona, timeout...).

Agree.

* * *

On the design list, I wrote a small critique on the discoverability of
the personas feature comparing it to the Firefox feature without any
real solutions, just fyi...
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/A-new-old-branding-tp4028724p4030504.html

Astron.
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-24 Thread Adolfo Jayme Barrientos
No, I don’t agree on removing the feature from 4.0. We should improve
its rough edges instead of going the easy way.

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Stefan Knorr (Astron)
heinzless...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Michel, Kendy,

 * sorry this comes so late... *

 tldr: The background image UI should really go if it won't work.


 On 18 January 2013 10:03, Jan Holesovsky ke...@suse.cz wrote:
 May i make some suggestions on the pref panel ?
 - why not keep the own image to select an image in local hd ?

 Hm ... well, for Firefox, there's a persona builder add-on to do that.
 I think it can also upload personas, so in a way, that's covered.

 Additionally, of course, the background image functionality still
 doesn't work in master – so, given how...
 * we would need Kendy to work on this functionality, so it actually works
 * we would need string changes to point out that background images and
 personas are mutually exclusive (as you (Michel) already noticed)

 So, this leads me to believe that we're best of just removing the
 background images feature from 4.0.

 - if i understand ok (images and personas are exclusive), we can have
 the choices :
   *Toolbar background*
 O Default
 O Image  Select Image...
 O Firefox PersonaSelect Persona...

   (I renamed own image to Image)

 Overall, I agree to this structure... and I am actually fine with the
 shorter option titles – instead of the long options, a short
 introductory text above telling users unaware of the feature what
 Personas are would be nice (like Use Personas to customize the
 background of your toolbar. not sure if needs any more than that).
 Again, this is now a feature for after 4.0.


 - would it be possible to add a preview of image/persona ?
 and a status text if there is an error (error loading image, error
 loading persona, timeout...).

 Agree.

 * * *

 On the design list, I wrote a small critique on the discoverability of
 the personas feature comparing it to the Firefox feature without any
 real solutions, just fyi...
 http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/A-new-old-branding-tp4028724p4030504.html

 Astron.
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-24 Thread Stefan Knorr (Astron)
Hi Michel, Kendy,

* sorry this comes so late... *

tldr: The background image UI should really go if it won't work.


On 18 January 2013 10:03, Jan Holesovsky ke...@suse.cz wrote:
 May i make some suggestions on the pref panel ?
 - why not keep the own image to select an image in local hd ?

Hm ... well, for Firefox, there's a persona builder add-on to do that.
I think it can also upload personas, so in a way, that's covered.

Additionally, of course, the background image functionality still
doesn't work in master – so, given how...
* we would need Kendy to work on this functionality, so it actually works
* we would need string changes to point out that background images and
personas are mutually exclusive (as you (Michel) already noticed)

So, this leads me to believe that we're best of just removing the
background images feature from 4.0.

 - if i understand ok (images and personas are exclusive), we can have
 the choices :
   *Toolbar background*
 O Default
 O Image  Select Image...
 O Firefox PersonaSelect Persona...

   (I renamed own image to Image)

Overall, I agree to this structure... and I am actually fine with the
shorter option titles – instead of the long options, a short
introductory text above telling users unaware of the feature what
Personas are would be nice (like Use Personas to customize the
background of your toolbar. not sure if needs any more than that).
Again, this is now a feature for after 4.0.


 - would it be possible to add a preview of image/persona ?
 and a status text if there is an error (error loading image, error
 loading persona, timeout...).

Agree.

* * *

On the design list, I wrote a small critique on the discoverability of
the personas feature comparing it to the Firefox feature without any
real solutions, just fyi...
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/A-new-old-branding-tp4028724p4030504.html

Astron.
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-24 Thread Adolfo Jayme Barrientos
No, I don’t agree on removing the feature from 4.0. We should improve
its rough edges instead of going the easy way.

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Stefan Knorr (Astron)
heinzless...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Michel, Kendy,

 * sorry this comes so late... *

 tldr: The background image UI should really go if it won't work.


 On 18 January 2013 10:03, Jan Holesovsky ke...@suse.cz wrote:
 May i make some suggestions on the pref panel ?
 - why not keep the own image to select an image in local hd ?

 Hm ... well, for Firefox, there's a persona builder add-on to do that.
 I think it can also upload personas, so in a way, that's covered.

 Additionally, of course, the background image functionality still
 doesn't work in master – so, given how...
 * we would need Kendy to work on this functionality, so it actually works
 * we would need string changes to point out that background images and
 personas are mutually exclusive (as you (Michel) already noticed)

 So, this leads me to believe that we're best of just removing the
 background images feature from 4.0.

 - if i understand ok (images and personas are exclusive), we can have
 the choices :
   *Toolbar background*
 O Default
 O Image  Select Image...
 O Firefox PersonaSelect Persona...

   (I renamed own image to Image)

 Overall, I agree to this structure... and I am actually fine with the
 shorter option titles – instead of the long options, a short
 introductory text above telling users unaware of the feature what
 Personas are would be nice (like Use Personas to customize the
 background of your toolbar. not sure if needs any more than that).
 Again, this is now a feature for after 4.0.


 - would it be possible to add a preview of image/persona ?
 and a status text if there is an error (error loading image, error
 loading persona, timeout...).

 Agree.

 * * *

 On the design list, I wrote a small critique on the discoverability of
 the personas feature comparing it to the Firefox feature without any
 real solutions, just fyi...
 http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/A-new-old-branding-tp4028724p4030504.html

 Astron.
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-24 Thread Stefan Knorr (Astron)
Hi Fitoschido,

On 24 January 2013 17:50, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos fitosch...@gmail.com wrote:
 No, I don’t agree on removing the feature from 4.0. We should improve
 its rough edges instead of going the easy way.

You realise the 4.0.0 RC3 aka the 4.0.0 final release is going to be
tagged beginning of next week and strings have been frozen for some
time? Also, Kendy is on holiday until Monday.

Astron.
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-24 Thread Adolfo Jayme Barrientos
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Stefan Knorr (Astron)
heinzless...@gmail.com wrote:
 You realise the 4.0.0 RC3 aka the 4.0.0 final release is going to be
 tagged beginning of next week and strings have been frozen for some
 time? Also, Kendy is on holiday until Monday.

But still, it’s too late to remove things. Too much hype this feature
has created on blogs already... And people is still yelling that “we
do not care about UI” or something like that...

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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-24 Thread Stefan Knorr (Astron)
Hi Adolfo,

 But still, it’s too late to remove things. Too much hype this feature
 has created on blogs already... And people is still yelling that “we
 do not care about UI” or something like that...

Note that I only spoke about the user-defined background images
feature. Not about the Personas feature. These are two separate (but
mutually exclusive, IIUC) features.

Astron.
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-24 Thread Adolfo Jayme Barrientos
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Stefan Knorr (Astron)
heinzless...@gmail.com wrote:
 Note that I only spoke about the user-defined background images
 feature. Not about the Personas feature. These are two separate (but
 mutually exclusive, IIUC) features.

 Astron.

Sorry, I misread!

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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-18 Thread Jan Holesovsky
Hi Michel,

Michel Renon píše v St 09. 01. 2013 v 18:15 +0100:

 May i make some suggestions on the pref panel ?
 - why not keep the own image to select an image in local hd ?
 - if i understand ok (images and personas are exclusive), we can have 
 the choices :
   *Toolbar background*
 O Default
 O Image  Select Image...
 O Firefox PersonaSelect Persona...
 
   (I renamed own image to Image)

I've updated the wording there already based on the Astron's suggestions
- I hope it works for you too?

 - would it be possible to add a preview of image/persona ?
 and a status text if there is an error (error loading image, error 
 loading persona, timeout...).
  From a user pov, it's an expected feed-back before validating.

Very good idea - unfortunately more for 4.1, it's too late to do it now.
I'll keep it in mind, thank you!

 - to be complete, LO should keep the path of image/url of persona, and 
 show it below the preview ; and the url should be entered automatically 
 in the persona dialog.

I am not sure if it is useful to pre-file the current URL in the Persona
dialog - it is supposed to be only a place to be pasted with the URL, no
real editing, so...

But showing the current Persona's URL might be good, indeed.

All the best,
Kendy

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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-18 Thread Jan Holesovsky
Hi Michel,

Michel Renon píše v St 09. 01. 2013 v 18:15 +0100:

 May i make some suggestions on the pref panel ?
 - why not keep the own image to select an image in local hd ?
 - if i understand ok (images and personas are exclusive), we can have 
 the choices :
   *Toolbar background*
 O Default
 O Image  Select Image...
 O Firefox PersonaSelect Persona...
 
   (I renamed own image to Image)

I've updated the wording there already based on the Astron's suggestions
- I hope it works for you too?

 - would it be possible to add a preview of image/persona ?
 and a status text if there is an error (error loading image, error 
 loading persona, timeout...).
  From a user pov, it's an expected feed-back before validating.

Very good idea - unfortunately more for 4.1, it's too late to do it now.
I'll keep it in mind, thank you!

 - to be complete, LO should keep the path of image/url of persona, and 
 show it below the preview ; and the url should be entered automatically 
 in the persona dialog.

I am not sure if it is useful to pre-file the current URL in the Persona
dialog - it is supposed to be only a place to be pasted with the URL, no
real editing, so...

But showing the current Persona's URL might be good, indeed.

All the best,
Kendy

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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-09 Thread Michel Renon

Hi all,

Le 08/01/2013 11:07, Jan Holesovsky a écrit :

Hi Cor,

Cor Nouws píše v Po 07. 01. 2013 v 22:56 +0100:


Idea looks great to me and is an invitement for futher enhancements in
the future :-)

I gues the code in a daily from 2012-12-28 (1) is not yet complet?
I see the option page, but choosing an own background image does not
work (file picker handling is broken) and a choosen persona is not shown...


That's too old, you need a build post 2012-01-04.  The 'own background'
is not working even there, and will be removed from 4.0 if the Persona
part is approved (otherwise both will go).


I tested on build 2013-01-08 on Ubuntu 12.04 and nothing works :-(

Btw, it's a nice feature !
As it's a user's choice, we have not to worry about readability of toobars.


May i make some suggestions on the pref panel ?
- why not keep the own image to select an image in local hd ?
- if i understand ok (images and personas are exclusive), we can have 
the choices :

 *Toolbar background*
   O Default
   O Image  Select Image...
   O Firefox PersonaSelect Persona...

(I renamed own image to Image)

- would it be possible to add a preview of image/persona ?
and a status text if there is an error (error loading image, error 
loading persona, timeout...).

From a user pov, it's an expected feed-back before validating.

- to be complete, LO should keep the path of image/url of persona, and 
show it below the preview ; and the url should be entered automatically 
in the persona dialog.




So my complete suggestion in ascii :

 *Toolbar background*
   O Default
   O Image  Select Image...
   O Firefox PersonaSelect Persona...

 [Status text, only if error]
   +---+
   |   |
   | preview   |
   |   |
   |   |
   +---+
   path/url : xx





Thanks,
Michel
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-09 Thread Michel Renon

Hi all,

Le 08/01/2013 11:07, Jan Holesovsky a écrit :

Hi Cor,

Cor Nouws píše v Po 07. 01. 2013 v 22:56 +0100:


Idea looks great to me and is an invitement for futher enhancements in
the future :-)

I gues the code in a daily from 2012-12-28 (1) is not yet complet?
I see the option page, but choosing an own background image does not
work (file picker handling is broken) and a choosen persona is not shown...


That's too old, you need a build post 2012-01-04.  The 'own background'
is not working even there, and will be removed from 4.0 if the Persona
part is approved (otherwise both will go).


I tested on build 2013-01-08 on Ubuntu 12.04 and nothing works :-(

Btw, it's a nice feature !
As it's a user's choice, we have not to worry about readability of toobars.


May i make some suggestions on the pref panel ?
- why not keep the own image to select an image in local hd ?
- if i understand ok (images and personas are exclusive), we can have 
the choices :

 *Toolbar background*
   O Default
   O Image  Select Image...
   O Firefox PersonaSelect Persona...

(I renamed own image to Image)

- would it be possible to add a preview of image/persona ?
and a status text if there is an error (error loading image, error 
loading persona, timeout...).

From a user pov, it's an expected feed-back before validating.

- to be complete, LO should keep the path of image/url of persona, and 
show it below the preview ; and the url should be entered automatically 
in the persona dialog.




So my complete suggestion in ascii :

 *Toolbar background*
   O Default
   O Image  Select Image...
   O Firefox PersonaSelect Persona...

 [Status text, only if error]
   +---+
   |   |
   | preview   |
   |   |
   |   |
   +---+
   path/url : xx





Thanks,
Michel
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-08 Thread Adolfo Jayme Barrientos
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 4:32 AM, Jan Holesovsky ke...@suse.cz wrote:
 Please let me know if this is acceptable, and if you need any help with the 
 review.

It would be really nice to get this landed in 4.0. Many users ask for
greater UI customization, and this is a great start. Putting technical
issues aside, I don’t see UX problems in this.
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-08 Thread Pedro
Hi Kendy, all


Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote
 On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 4:32 AM, Jan Holesovsky lt;

 kendy@

 gt; wrote:
 Please let me know if this is acceptable, and if you need any help with
 the review.
 
 It would be really nice to get this landed in 4.0. Many users ask for
 greater UI customization, and this is a great start. Putting technical
 issues aside, I don’t see UX problems in this.

This is a quite nice feature although from my brief tests is only usable
with Solid themes (artistic designs make buttons unreadable...)

I tested under Windows XP with
Version 4.1.0.0.alpha0+ (Build ID: ff927ba4272aa8f115472577ec9393df19016f2)
TinderBox: Win-x86@6, Branch:master, Time: 2013-01-08_01:14:22

Background images (there is a typo in the Select Background Image button)
are not loaded, neither jpg nor png

Cheers,
Pedro



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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-08 Thread Jan Holesovsky
Hi Cor,

Cor Nouws píše v Po 07. 01. 2013 v 22:56 +0100:

 Idea looks great to me and is an invitement for futher enhancements in 
 the future :-)
 
 I gues the code in a daily from 2012-12-28 (1) is not yet complet?
 I see the option page, but choosing an own background image does not 
 work (file picker handling is broken) and a choosen persona is not shown...

That's too old, you need a build post 2012-01-04.  The 'own background'
is not working even there, and will be removed from 4.0 if the Persona
part is approved (otherwise both will go).

Regards,
Kendy

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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-08 Thread Olivier Hallot
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Kendy

I got it working on master. Really nice work and some room or
improvement as well:I wonder if the persona also has a footer to
decorate the LO status bar.

I got a crash on changing a persona to another, but I'll get a traceback
as soon as I can.

Some LibreOffice related personas
http://www.getpersonas.com/en-US/gallery/All/search?p=libreofficesearch.x=0search.y=0

Regards

Olivier

Em 07-01-2013 08:32, Jan Holesovsky escreveu:
 Hi Astron, Caolán, Olivier, all,
 
 I'd like to ask you [or any additional reviewers :-)] for review of a
 late 4.0 feature - the Firefox Personas for LibreOffice.  It is supposed
 to work like this:
 
 - the user chooses Tools - Options - Personalization - Select Persona
 - then navigates to http://www.getpersonas.com, and chooses Persona she
   likes
 - copies the URL of that Persona to clipboard, pastes that to the
   dialog, [OK]
 - closes the Options with [OK]
 
 And the the Persona is used in LibreOffice, like this:
 
 http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~kendy/blog/pics/libreoffice-personas-1.png
 
 or
 
 http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~kendy/blog/pics/libreoffice-personas-2.png
 
 Depends on the taste - there are 35k Personas to choose from :-)  Of
 course, switching the Personas off again is trivial in Tools - Options
 - Personalization too.
 
 The patches that do that are quite small, in fact just this:
 
 http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=a2500801cf2d337f176b074f9159df4925420af4
 http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=9ae27252a6a07f4b67a43be6c9289983f43b2e95
 http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=46505e82ad0f2bd9586e6c853e6e68635dc54007
 http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=3fc8c364cc58429bd840f47a80a9258de21ed131
 
 But - there is one catch.  There was no way to load .jpg directly in vcl
 (but logically, the functionality belongs there), so I moved
 GraphicFilter from svtools to vcl.  The move will also allow
 simplification of some code in desktop/ I believe.
 
 Also there were some bugs in vcl that were triggered by the feature; and
 I fixed them.  Consequently, the full list of patches to cherry-pick to
 libreoffice-4-0 is:
 
 git log 
 255c03d6ad4ed13c456ee621e0af765684a475d2~..4a4627eba410df933d004170d9f5638526acaed2
 git log 
 540f090a68ae4375a36d0ee6dfbb4a82f28ac704~..540f090a68ae4375a36d0ee6dfbb4a82f28ac704
 git log 
 c223e5ff859171adab1597025b30ec2501fc5771~..3f3d0c52ae29b6ab6b2c10a5557714361aa76a26
 
 Please let me know if this is acceptable, and if you need any help with the 
 review.
 
 Thank you a lot,
 Kendy
 

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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] LATE FEATURE: Personas in LibreOffice

2013-01-07 Thread Cor Nouws

Hi Kendy

Jan Holesovsky wrote (07-01-13 11:32)

Please let me know if this is acceptable, and if you need any help with the 
review.


Idea looks great to me and is an invitement for futher enhancements in 
the future :-)


I gues the code in a daily from 2012-12-28 (1) is not yet complet?
I see the option page, but choosing an own background image does not 
work (file picker handling is broken) and a choosen persona is not shown...


Cheers
Cor
1) Version 4.0.0.0.beta2+ (Build ID: 
1d7287f8d7984eae98a577f60a8bc0a740fc5e9)



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