[Bug 161255] Heuristically enable RTL-CTL and/or CJK language support when installing
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161255 --- Comment #11 from Eyal Rozenberg --- (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #10) > Don't think UX can contribute more to the topic. Actually, UX can, at least in the following senses: * Sometimes, enabling support is obvious; sometimes, there's no indication in favor of it; and sometimes, there's some indication (for example: You're using a Western locale, UI etc. in a country in which a fraction of the population is Muslim) . How far do we bias in favor of enabling RTL-CTL or CJK in such cases? i.e. where on the spectrum should we be? * Is it acceptable and is it reasonable to place explicit checkboxes for RTL-CTL and for CJK in the installation program (assuming it's not a DEB/RPM and such)? * Is it really better to apply a heuristic, or should we just always-enable as is suggested in bug 161258? Do the detriments of enabling support for all languages outweigh the benefit of potential use? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 161255] Heuristically enable RTL-CTL and/or CJK language support when installing
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161255 Heiko Tietze changed: What|Removed |Added CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists | |.freedesktop.org| Keywords|needsUXEval | --- Comment #10 from Heiko Tietze --- Me supported the request too, pending confirmation by QA. Don't think UX can contribute more to the topic. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 161255] Heuristically enable RTL-CTL and/or CJK language support when installing
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161255 --- Comment #9 from Mike Kaganski --- (In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #8) > I didn't understand comment 1. Oh? I wrote there explicitly, what is *expected* to work. Specifically, I *cared* to mention, that the wanted "support" is *expected* to be enabled automatically, when the LibreOffice locale (the thing that is set in Options->Languages and Locales->General, "Locale setting") is set to a locale that needs that. I further said explicitly, that it is *expected* that this locale setting is *set* automatically according to the OS settings (whichever algorithm there is). I honestly believe, that you simply refuse to communicate. I even wrote explicitly, that *if* it doesn't work for a *specific* OS, or a specific locale, then that is a bug - and someone slightly familiar with the bug tracker would indeed understand that the specific report is needed. like "I use OS ABC; my locale settings in the OS are XYZ; I install LO using this method; immediately after installation, I check the LibreOffice locale setting, and it is ...; and when I look at the Asian / CTL checkboxes there on the same options page, I see unexpected ... - my expectation is ..." -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 161255] Heuristically enable RTL-CTL and/or CJK language support when installing
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161255 Eyal Rozenberg changed: What|Removed |Added CC||jonat...@libreoffice.org, ||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists ||.freedesktop.org Keywords||needsUXEval --- Comment #8 from Eyal Rozenberg --- (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #7) > Changing the locale works as expected, Not sure what you mean. * What is "the" locale? * Changing it where? * What is your expectation? Now, I have to admit I am also guilty of not being clear about the locale part. On a Windows system, there is the "language to use for non-Unicode programs" setting; there is the set of enabled keyboard layouts (and the default one), there is the choice of "country", there is "regional format" and maybe other settings. On a Unix-like system, we have the different environment variables: LANG LANGUAGE LC_CTYPE LC_MESSAGES LC_ALL, and there's also /etc/timezone . We also have the DE UI language, and we have the set of keyboard layouts. > confirming comment 1. I didn't understand comment 1. If things "worked as expected" I would not file this bug. I don't understand why you're dismissing this so blithely, this is actually a rather fundamental problem which came up in our chat with Jonathan (who I am CCing) as an example of something we are so used to having fixed personally long ago, so that we no longer notice its significance to new users. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 161255] Heuristically enable RTL-CTL and/or CJK language support when installing
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161255 Heiko Tietze changed: What|Removed |Added CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists | |.freedesktop.org| Keywords|needsUXEval | --- Comment #7 from Heiko Tietze --- Changing the locale works as expected, confirming comment 1. If you talk about which locale is used as initial default it should of course take what is configured on the OS/DE. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 161255] Heuristically enable RTL-CTL and/or CJK language support when installing
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161255 Eyal Rozenberg changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords||needsUXEval CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists ||.freedesktop.org -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 161255] Heuristically enable RTL-CTL and/or CJK language support when installing
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161255 --- Comment #6 from Eyal Rozenberg --- (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #5) > > Are you specifically trying to behave as if you don't see what I meant? Bye. No, I just don't see what you meant. AFAICT, "If this doesn't work in general, this is a bug" is the case. Am I mistaken? I might be. If it works for Western languages, that doesn't count of course, because then, no action is needed, so nothing needs to work. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 161255] Heuristically enable RTL-CTL and/or CJK language support when installing
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161255 --- Comment #5 from Mike Kaganski --- (In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #4) > (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #3) > > I choose it in Options->Languages and Locales->General, to test hos locales > > affect this. > > That is not what I'm talking about. I'm taking about arranging it so that > when I start a clean, empty profile - and I'm on a system and with a user > profile or session which one can surmise involves use of RTL-CTL/CJK > languages - then LibreOffice will start with full RTL-CTL / CJK support > (respectively) enabled. > > That does not seem to happen at the moment. > > The user should not have to choose anything. Effects of active user choices > are not what this bug is about Are you specifically trying to behave as if you don't see what I meant? Bye. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 161255] Heuristically enable RTL-CTL and/or CJK language support when installing
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161255 --- Comment #4 from Eyal Rozenberg --- (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #3) > I choose it in Options->Languages and Locales->General, to test hos locales > affect this. That is not what I'm talking about. I'm taking about arranging it so that when I start a clean, empty profile - and I'm on a system and with a user profile or session which one can surmise involves use of RTL-CTL/CJK languages - then LibreOffice will start with full RTL-CTL / CJK support (respectively) enabled. That does not seem to happen at the moment. The user should not have to choose anything. Effects of active user choices are not what this bug is about > For a just-installed LO instance, that option has a default > value taken from OS. Are you saying that: 1. Locale is taken from the US and 2. RTL-CTL/CJK toggles are set or unset based on that locale and lacking explicit user setting I don't think so. Or at least, Not in my limited experience. Just tried this again on Windows with bother Hebrew and English (US) as the "locale for non-Unicode applications" (and with English and Hebrew as keyboard languages); RTL-CTL was not enabled. ... but that is also not very relevant. I mean, locale is actually a multitude of setting: language, numeric, time, etc. ; and there's also the timezone; and there are locales which are themselves mixed. For example, if my (single) locale is say, en_HK - does that ensure both options get set? CJK because its Chinese, and RTL-CTL because of the Indonesian language plus Arabic for the Muslims? Actually... what I said above makes me wonder if the component I chose is correct, i.e. is this an installation problem or a clean-profile-startup problem. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 161255] Heuristically enable RTL-CTL and/or CJK language support when installing
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161255 --- Comment #3 from Mike Kaganski --- (In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #2) > Choosing where? I choose it in Options->Languages and Locales->General, to test hos locales affect this. For a just-installed LO instance, that option has a default value taken from OS. > > The locale is *by default* taken from OS. > > No, I mean locale. UI language is also taken from OS, true; but here, I only > tested the effects of locale on this (and actually, I didn't test UI language > effects, which might also exist). -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 161255] Heuristically enable RTL-CTL and/or CJK language support when installing
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161255 --- Comment #2 from Eyal Rozenberg --- (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #1) > with a clean profile, choosing the ar-AE locale checks the CTL checkbox > unconditionally (and even makes it inactive it, so that I can't disable > it). Setting locale to ja-JP does the same with Asian checkbox. Choosing where? > The locale is *by default* taken from OS. Do you mean the UI language? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 161255] Heuristically enable RTL-CTL and/or CJK language support when installing
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161255 --- Comment #1 from Mike Kaganski --- It is *expected*, that for respective locales, the support (checkboxes in Options->Languages and Locales->General) is enabled *automatically*, by default. Using Version: 24.2.3.2 (X86_64) / LibreOffice Community Build ID: 433d9c2ded56988e8a90e6b2e771ee4e6a5ab2ba CPU threads: 24; OS: Windows 10.0 Build 22631; UI render: Skia/Vulkan; VCL: win Locale: ar-AE (ru_RU); UI: en-US Calc: CL threaded with a clean profile, choosing the ar-AE locale checks the CTL checkbox unconditionally (and even makes it inactive it, so that I can't disable it). Setting locale to ja-JP does the same with Asian checkbox. The locale is *by default* taken from OS. Thus, it is *expected* that the newly installed LibreOffice already enables support for the language groups that correspond to the user locale. So: 1. If this doesn't work in general, this is a bug and a regression; 2. If it doesn't work for a specific locale, it is a bug; 3. If it doesn't work for some OS, this is a bug; 4. If this is not enough, this needs specific description of the problem and wanted behavior. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 161255] Heuristically enable RTL-CTL and/or CJK language support when installing
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161255 Eyal Rozenberg changed: What|Removed |Added See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16 ||1258 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Bug 161255] Heuristically enable RTL-CTL and/or CJK language support when installing
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161255 Eyal Rozenberg changed: What|Removed |Added Blocks||43808, 129661, 83066 Referenced Bugs: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43808 [Bug 43808] [META] Right-To-Left and Complex Text Layout language issues (RTL/CTL) https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=83066 [Bug 83066] [META] CJK (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese) language issues https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=129661 [Bug 129661] [META] Right-To-Left (RTL) user interface issues -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
