[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

Samuel Mehrbrodt (allotropia)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Assignee|libreoffice-b...@lists.free |samuel.mehrbrodt@allotropia
   |desktop.org |.de
 Status|NEW |ASSIGNED

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

Gabor Kelemen (allotropia)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||kelem...@ubuntu.com
  Regression By||Samuel Mehrbrodt

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

Dieter  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||juluani...@gmail.com

--- Comment #23 from Dieter  ---
*** Bug 147619 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

Dieter  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13
   ||7918

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

--- Comment #22 from rb@icloud.com ---
I am having the same issue with character spacing being limited to greater than
-2.0 pts. After looking around in the source code on git.libreoffice.org, I
think I found where the issue might be:

https://git.libreoffice.org/core/+/refs/heads/master/cui/source/tabpages/chardlg.cxx

1248// based on the current height:
1249//  - negative until minimum of 2 pt
1250//  - positive until maximum of 999 pt
1251_pFontSizeLB->EnablePtRelativeMode( sal::static_int_cast< short
>(-(nCurHeight - 20)), ( - nCurHeight) );

I have never worked on a major piece of software like this before, nor do I
have any of the development tools set up, so I don't think I can fix this
myself.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

--- Comment #21 from TH  ---
Created attachment 167047
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=167047=edit
Apache OpenOffice 4.1.7 handles this pair kerning better (but with artificial
limit of 7 which is also too small), so code changed in LibreOffice!

Apache OpenOffice 4.1.7 (the latest version) handles pair kerning better, based
upon its older code, but likewise has an artificial limit equivalent to "-7",
which also is insufficient.  (We need to be able to go to at least -16 with
some fonts.)  All this is to say, it is highly unlikely that allowing -7 now in
LibreOffice 7.x would present any sort of issue, and really, a limit of -16
should be allowed and workable, with only a very minor change to an XML value
in a file.  I am not set up to make that change, and it would take me a lot of
time to get set up, but one of you folks who regularly work on bugs / issues in
LibreOffice should be able to make it very quickly, and I would be only too
happy to thoroughly test the change / fix and report back.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

--- Comment #20 from Telesto  ---
(In reply to TH from comment #19)
> IS THERE SOMEONE AVAILABLE WHO COULD FIX THIS KERNING LIMITATION IN
> LIBREOFFICE.  

I do get they 'frustration', but take also in consideration: 
(A) We have to manage with limited resources. (which not specific to
LibreOffice). So there are priority's and such.  And LibreOffice being a free
product restricting the resources even further (else we could hire paid
developers). 
(B) They bug tracker is pretty large; so enough to be fixed.
(C) Everybody has it's own show stopper bugs (or pets). 

There is option for professional support. Which likely to solve this within a
'blink of they eye' [1]. Except you need deep pockets to pay for that. And
looks like nobody has considered 'worth it' currently. Not really unexpected as
it's really expensive.
Or fix the code yourself (which maybe cheaper). Except you need to now how to
code and you to invest time in it.

[1] https://libreoffice.org/get-help/professional-support/

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

--- Comment #19 from TH  ---
Here is my input on this bug / serious issue from what was apparently a
"duplicate."  Note that for me, this is a showstopper in terms of being able to
use my necessary font for titles, as the font's normal kerning is awful,
automatic doesn't help, and reducing character spacing is too limited (due to
the bug / issue in LibreOffice) to help.  This forces me to use a different
font, which I really don't think I can do in this case, or use a different word
processor like MS Word, which I'd prefer to avoid if possible.

Description:
Artificial character spacing limitation of -2.0 points (next to Kerning) is
INSUFFICIENT for a font like Lucida Casual when using Small Caps for a word
like "The".  Need at least flexibility to go to -14.0 points.

In a word like "The" for a title using a font such as Lucida Casual (e.g.,
Regular), which is available for download at
https://fontsgeek.com/fonts/Lucida-Casual-Regular , it is NOT possible to
properly kern the characters "Th" when using Drop Caps with a hard limit of
-2.0 (minus 2.0).  There is no good reason for such a hard limit condensing the
space.  We can expand spacing (going the other direction) far beyond 2.0; here
we need to be able to condense the spacing beyond -2.0 (e.g., to -14.0) to get
the desired pair kerning for "Th" using Drop Caps.  This limitation, if it
remains a hard limit like this, forces use of another word processor (e.g., MS
Word) just to produce the title on a page using such a font.  (That happens to
be the font I HAVE to use in my case.)

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Download and install Lucida Casual font (regular and italic), getting it
from https://fontsgeek.com/fonts/Lucida-Casual-Regular
2. Add a 42-point title such as "The Document in LibreOffice" to a page, select
it, and while it's selected, go to Character -> Character... -> Font Effects,
and specify "Small capitals".
3. Select "Th" in the title text, go to Character -> Character... -> Position
-> Character Spacing, and there enter the highest NEGATIVE number you can in
Writer, which currently has a hard limit of "-2.0 pt".  Look at the result,
which is UNSATISFACTORY.

Actual Results:
With a hard limit of -2.0 pt for condensing text such as "Th" using small
capitals in a title with the word "The", we CANNOT get sufficient reduction in
the space between the "T" and "h" to achieve proper kerning.  We need to be
able to enter a higher negative value to achieve tighter kerning, such as -12.0
or -14.0, in this case.

Expected Results:
I need and want to be able to further decrease the space between characters,
beyond what the strange hard limit of -2.0 can achieve.  (Lucida Casual is NOT
the only font with such an issue in LibreOffice, it's just the one I need to
immediately address in this context.)

Reproducible: Always

Additional Info:
There are two downloadable versions of the Lucida Casual font at
https://fontsgeek.com/fonts/Lucida-Casual-Regular , each with Regular and
Oblique styles.  Either one of those downloadable fonts will suffice to
demonstrate the above issue / unnecessary limitation.  (I would prefer to not
have to go to a paid word processor such as MS Word to do the title, which is
currently the only reasonable workaround.)

P.S.  See the cover of the book "The AntiChrist and a Cup of Tea" (or its title
page if you can find that somewhere) for an example of the desired kerning,
which cannot currently be achieved in LibreOffice due to the hard limit of -2.0
pt for condensed character spacing: 
https://www.amazon.com/Antichrist-Cup-Tea-Tim-Cohen/dp/0966279301/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1=antichrist+and+a+cup+of+tea=1602003724=8-1

IS THERE SOMEONE AVAILABLE WHO COULD FIX THIS KERNING LIMITATION IN
LIBREOFFICE.  IT'S BEEN OVER TWO YEARS NOW SINCE IT WAS REPORTED

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||thuck...@yahoo.com

--- Comment #18 from V Stuart Foote  ---
*** Bug 137296 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12
   ||5290

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

--- Comment #16 from Khaled Hosny  ---
(In reply to Khaled Hosny from comment #15)
> Old limit was relative to font size (see code removed in the commit above),
> new limit is hard-coded to -1.

I meant -2.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

--- Comment #15 from Khaled Hosny  ---
Old limit was relative to font size (see code removed in the commit above), new
limit is hard-coded to -1. Parts of the old code should be restored to restore
the old behavior.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

--- Comment #14 from V Stuart Foote  ---
Not clear how the .UI's  -2 entry [1] is actually applied. As font size
increases the reduced spacing is increased proportionally. So it is not an
absolute -2 point unit. It is being scaled.

That handling needs to be understood before simply increasing the minimum value
in the UI spinbox. Concern would be what happens to smaller font sizes when the
negative Spacing is set larger than the font size? Will it happily just compose
each glyph on top of the preceeding--or will it crash?

=-ref-=
[1]
https://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/cui/uiconfig/ui/positionpage.ui?#21

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

Telesto  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||bibisected, bisected
Version|5.4.0.0.alpha0+ |5.2.0.4 release

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

Telesto  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89
   ||953

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

--- Comment #13 from Telesto  ---
Created attachment 140856
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=140856=edit
Bibisect log

Bisected to

author  Samuel Mehrbrodt   2016-04-22 15:22:03
+0200
committer   Samuel Mehrbrodt   2016-04-22
14:47:54 +
commit  9a745d54a5c7470180f41494283983a3b8b84a51 (patch)
treeb5ce765cfdd1ba1faa93480aa8f3cd54c6d4e838
parent  3ae1e174014fc708833f3b43682573de1650af56 (diff)
tdf#89953 Character spacing: Allow to enter negative values
without selecting from a condensed/expanded listbox first.

https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=9a745d54a5c7470180f41494283983a3b8b84a51

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

--- Comment #12 from Telesto  ---
Quote bug 116600 comment 1

In version 4 it was named "condensed" and the limit had been relative to
font-size, about 1/6.
Version: 4.5.0.0.alpha0+
Build ID: 40b1e8266e47792d354cd457c652bfb0f0a21e69
TinderBox: Win-x86@62-TDF, Branch:MASTER, Time: 2015-02-11_00:13:43
Locale: de_DE

In version 5.4 it is named "spacing" with negative values and shows the
described problem. Version: 5.4.3.2 (x64)
Build ID: 92a7159f7e4af62137622921e809f8546db437e5
CPU threads: 8; OS: Windows 6.19; UI render: default; 
Locale: de-DE (de_DE); Calc: CL

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||regression
 CC||rb.hensc...@t-online.de

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||m...@vistamaresoft.com

--- Comment #11 from V Stuart Foote  ---
*** Bug 116600 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

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--- Comment #10 from Khaled Hosny  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #3)
> (In reply to Telesto from comment #2)
> > However, I'm not sure if this is an DOCX import bug. LibO doesn't allow to
> > create a (condensed) spacing below -2,0 in any way whatsoever.
> 
> Yes not allowing below -2pt is worthless if you have large text.
> 
> @Khaled: Any thoughts?

No idea. Such spacing is done by manipulating the DX array by the calling
sites, the layout engine knows nothing about it.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107405] Setting fixed kerning (text spacing) is limited to -2pt

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107405

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|Setting fixed kerning is|Setting fixed kerning (text
   |limited to -2pt |spacing) is limited to -2pt

--- Comment #9 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #8)
> Rather, edit engine rendering to document canvas does not reduce
> Xspacing/Fixed Kerning below the 2.0pt value--either when rendering or as
> limited in the SpinBox GUI.

Yes i assumed it was an issue with the spinbox and not the importer and that
was the reason why i was asking for Khaled's input in comment 3, and also didnt
meta tag this bug to the DOCX meta bug. :D

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