[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 114532] add support for WEBP image format (image import and inside .ods/.odt)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114532

--- Comment #28 from Mike Kaganski  ---
Also: please let's close this bug, and file new bugs.

Although this one started as "please add support for WEBP image format (image
import and inside .ods/.odt)", the stated scope is too broad for a single
issue. It would be reasonable to only track manageable scope here (which is
"add support for reading" - and which is RESOLVED FIXED by now); and track
other multiple aspects (transition period behavior; related options; point in
time to end the transition) separately, maybe blocking this one, or having a
separate meta.

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--- Comment #27 from Mike Kaganski  ---
(In reply to Tomaz Vajngerl from comment #26)

TL;DR summary of the following: that is a very dangerous and serves only a
couple of users.

The idea to save both formats (one as fallback) would only serve people who
have the ultimate goal to get to the original bytes at some unspecified future
time. What is the real use case, that would require someone to desperately need
the original embedded image bytes, as opposed to a converted copy?

OTOH, there are *real* use cases, that would be served poorly by that decision.
1. People who chose WebP to save space. Well, PNG is not ideal for those; but
speculating that 110% is better for those who are unhappy with 100% is not
reasonable, right? And we possibly need to have a "convert lossy WebP to"
option with JPEG and PNG, like we have in Compress dialog - as you suggest.
2. People who didn't even realize they used a WebP (IMO, the vast majority, who
e.g. dragged the images from a web page). They don't care about the image
original format at all. They would have to pay their disk space (that +10%) for
a couple of those who needed it.

And the last category of users would be in real danger then. You argue that the
idea behind saving both formats is being able to return to WebP at some later
stage - meaning that the fallback PNG would be dropped, right? But that means
that at some update, unprepared users would suddenly have their existing
documents dropping embedded PNGs, which they would not notice, because they use
a version that supports the format; but you have no control who is their
recipients are, and what they use. Of course, the decision to drop PNG would
happen when WebP support in ODF readers is reasonable, but you can't guarantee
100% - and that means that *existing* edited documents with pre-existing images
can suddenly become unreadable on colleagues' systems where they used to be
working. It would be OK to argue "you use a modern program that supports WebP;
you have just inserted a WebP into a new document; it's OK that this image is
not shown on your colleague who uses AOO 4.1" - but it is *not* OK to tell that
about document that they had happily edited for long time, and that broke after
editing with updated LO, without any image insertion.

So IMO:

1. If people want to be notified about conversion, do that using an infobar
(just inform, do not ask and do not provide options there, except maybe a
button to go to relevant configuration, or to help).
2. Provide a (preferably expert) option to *not* convert at all - i.e., for
those who really want to use WebP, let them have the WebP - with no fallback.
3. Provide an option to convert lossy WebP to JPEG instead of PNG.
4. Do not complicate things with a fallback. That will inevitably hit much more
users in long term, than those who benefit from that.

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--- Comment #26 from Tomaz Vajngerl  ---
So IMHO we should store both WebP and PNG in the document. The reason is that
after we decide that WebP has been supported in enough LO versions, we can just
turn off saving the additional PNG fallback. Any documents that were created in
the mean time with the WebP images will be able to remove the fallback PNG
after this with just re-saving the file.

One thing we need to remember is that WebP on the web is mostly used to
super-compress the images to save bandwidth, so the images will mostly be using
the lossy part of WebP. So if we convert such an image to PNG the size will
increase significantly, so storing the original WebP in addition is
insignificant compared to the overall size of PNG.

I did a test - a 24MP photo compressed to 80% WebP was giving me 2.6MB. Convert
that to PNG at compression level 9 resulted in 33.7MB and it took a looong time
to compress. Reducing the compression level to a more typical 5 gave me 35.8MB.
So the PNG vs. PNG + WebP is not even 10% increase in size and the size of WebP
is similar to the difference between the PNG compression levels.

There is another thing we can do and instead PNG use JPEG in such cases (Lossy
WebP), so we would keep WebP and use JPEG for the fallback when opening in the
older versions of LibreOffice. JPEG at 80,85,90 is giving me 4MB/5MB/6.6MB,
which combined with the original WebP is still less than 1/3 of the PNG.

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--- Comment #25 from Timur  ---
I'm more for Yet Another Option (YAO) for conversion, with default checked.

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--- Comment #24 from Mike Kaganski  ---
Please just add a note about automatic conversion into PNG (maybe for some
transition period, after which embedding of WebP itself would be expected
without any conversion and fallback?) to the release notes. Having something
like an infobar with a conversion note is subject for a completely separate
issue.

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--- Comment #23 from phv  ---
I'm one of those who complain when LibreOffice converts data without warning;
whether it's vector images transformed into raster or formula formatting lost
with fodt file.

Let's take the case of a user who, reading that LibreOffice now supports the
new image file format, converts all JPEG images to WebP, but it results in a
much heavier file because the software does convert WebP to PNG: he will either
report the bug or regret that the software didn't say anything.

I cannot stress enough the importance of communicating with the user, to let
him choose what to do; but don't do it without him knowing at the risk of
losing trust.

Why not add a popup that appears when saving to inform about the image file
format incompatibility with older LibreOffice versions?

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--- Comment #22 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Would it be possible to automatically convert WebP on paste into something well
supported like PNG?

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Aron Budea  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14
   ||5875

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--- Comment #21 from Aron Budea  ---
(In reply to Timur from comment #20)
> If someone uses a new LO 7.4 when it's out and embeds WebP .ods/.odt and
> sends that file to someone else or opens it on other computer, I guess it
> would be logical and intuitive that there must also be LO 7.4. 
It's not that simple, you might not even know you're adding a WebP to the
document, eg. when copying a thumbnail from Wikipedia and pasting it into LO, a
WebP format image is on the clipboard. Or even if you know when you add a WebP
image to your document yourself, it'd be hard to keep track of which of your
documents contained WebP images and which ones didn't when sending it around.

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--- Comment #20 from Timur  ---
If someone uses a new LO 7.4 when it's out and embeds WebP .ods/.odt and sends
that file to someone else or opens it on other computer, I guess it would be
logical and intuitive that there must also be LO 7.4. 
So I don't see a need for a delay from comment 18. It's a new feature, not
modifying existing behavior. I'd prefer to see all completed and bug closed.

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--- Comment #19 from phv  ---
First of all, thank you for this work.

What I'm experiencing is that the WebP image is converted to PNG, so with a
weight up to 50% higher, when saved inside a .odt document

Could we consider that the expert configuration option "AddReplacementImage"
disable this conversion, as it does currently with SVG images?

I regret not being able to take full advantage of this new feature.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 114532] add support for WEBP image format (image import and inside .ods/.odt)

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Luboš Luňák  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||l.lu...@collabora.com
 Status|ASSIGNED|NEW
   Assignee|l.lu...@collabora.com   |libreoffice-b...@lists.free
   ||desktop.org

--- Comment #18 from Luboš Luňák  ---
As the commit message says, my commit adds full WebP support except for
embedding in .ods/.odt documents, as that would make them unreadable by
versions not having WebP support.

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Miklos Vajna  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Assignee|libreoffice-b...@lists.free |l.lu...@collabora.com
   |desktop.org |
 Status|NEW |ASSIGNED

--- Comment #16 from Miklos Vajna  ---
Lubos is looking at this.

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Timur  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|medium  |high
 CC||gti...@gmail.com

--- Comment #15 from Timur  ---
I will mark this as High. No really need to wait for 3 more duplicates and 3
more years... But it still requires a volunteer dev, unless someone pays.

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--- Comment #14 from Thierry  ---
Any chance to get this format supported in a future release ?

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Roland Kurmann  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13
   ||8668

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--- Comment #13 from David D Lowe  ---
I downloaded an image from a web page using my web browser. I then tried to add
it to a presentation using Impress. I was confused when the file browser in
Impress did not display the image I had downloaded. I only realised later that
the image was a WebP image, and that LibreOffice presumably did not support it.
It would be good to support WebP now that all major browsers support it and
more images on the web are going to be using this format.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 114532] add support for WEBP image format (image import and inside .ods/.odt)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114532

Aron Budea  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||143154


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=143154
[Bug 143154] Pictures outside slide borders are not displayed / pptx
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Aron Budea  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||108254
  Alias||WebP


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108254
[Bug 108254] [META] File format filters (import/export) bugs and enhancements
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--- Comment #12 from BogdanB  ---
Inserting a "webp" file is getting a "unknown image format" info in
LibreOffice. Tested in Version: 7.3.0.0.alpha0+ / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: 51754ca5349d7bf655d57ded37381188d0bc4bcf
CPU threads: 4; OS: Linux 5.8; UI render: default; VCL: gtk3
Locale: ro-RO (ro_RO.UTF-8); UI: en-US
Calc: threaded

"Support for the format has increased over the years, and as of May 2021 WebP
was supported by 94% of the web browsers in use worldwide".[7] -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebP

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--- Comment #11 from launch...@startport.com ---
WEBP Support in Web Browsers:
https://caniuse.com/webp

AVIF Support in Web Browsers:
https://caniuse.com/avif

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--- Comment #10 from Philippe Morin  ---
(In reply to launchpad from comment #9)
> In addition to webp, which has been supported by major web browsers for a
> long time now, we need support for avif
+1

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--- Comment #9 from launch...@startport.com ---
In addition to webp, which has been supported by major web browsers for a long
time now, we need support for avif, which is supported by Chrome now and will
also be supported in Firefox 87 (at the end of this month).

AVIF has Landed! :
https://jakearchibald.com/2020/avif-has-landed/

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Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|needsUXEval |

--- Comment #8 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Philippe Morin from comment #7)
> I tried dragging and dropping a WEBP picture from ...
> Adding WEBP would prevent poor UX.

Good point

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--- Comment #7 from Philippe Morin  ---
I want to report a new experience I just had...

I tried dragging and dropping a WEBP picture from this
page(https://subnautica.fandom.com/wiki/Fabricator#Basic_Materials) directly
into my Draw Gallery (which I started using today). While the WEBP picture does
appear as a working thumbnail, it doesn't behave like the PNG files I
converted.

Expected behaviour:
Previously drag-dropped (from a webpage) WEBP picture in the Draw Gallery will
be added to a page when dragged-dropped into it, or when using the "Insert"
option from the contextual menu.

Observed behaviour:
Previously drag-dropped (from a webpage) WEBP picture in the Draw Gallery WON'T
BE added to a page when dragged-dropped into it, or when using the "Insert"
option from the contextual menu. Instead, a "Object image vide" (sorry, French
UI) will be inserted (at least that's what the "Undo" option displays.

Let me conclude: I often saw end-users adding files from a web page by
dragging-dropping them into their document. Someone like me could even decide
to start a gallery with pictures in mixed formats. Adding WEBP would prevent
poor UX.

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Philippe Morin  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||needsUXEval

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--- Comment #6 from Philippe Morin  ---
I am French-speaking end-user who want to confirm this is a good feature
request. I'm using LibreOffice Draw right now and I had to convert files from
webp to png because WEBP wouldn't work. The file I'm working on is some kind of
tech tree (personal project) for a video game and I took the files on a
MediaWiki-based wiki.

I think such feature would empowering for end-users.

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Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
   Keywords|needsUXEval |
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

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Aron Budea  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Version|6.0.0.0.beta2   |unspecified

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Telesto  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|WONTFIX |---
 Status|RESOLVED|UNCONFIRMED
   Keywords||needsUXEval
 CC||qui...@gmail.com

--- Comment #5 from Telesto  ---
Tendency to ask for re-evaluation.. 
Based on partial reading of bug 114533 comment 6. Bug reports coming in.. And
this format really becoming more common.. I'm seeing ostrich with head the sand
in front of me already :P. Mentally of course, because the image being saved in
WEBP and Writer/Draw/Impress/Calc won't render :-)

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Buovjaga  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||yves.bai...@hexagon.com

--- Comment #4 from Buovjaga  ---
*** Bug 140440 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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Ming Hua  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||shanshandehongxing@outlook.
   ||com

--- Comment #3 from Ming Hua  ---
*** Bug 108147 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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Buovjaga  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||launch...@startport.com

--- Comment #2 from Buovjaga  ---
*** Bug 130759 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED
 CC||tietze.he...@gmail.com
 Resolution|--- |WONTFIX

--- Comment #1 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Discussion has been done in bug 114533 with the recommendation to not implement
this filter.

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Jean-Baptiste Faure  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Hardware|x86-64 (AMD64)  |All
 OS|Windows (All)   |All
   Severity|normal  |enhancement

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