[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|--- |INVALID
 Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED

--- Comment #26 from V Stuart Foote  ---
Coretext (Word) vs Harfbuzz (LO)-- will never render the same.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

--- Comment #25 from Jens Troeger  ---
Actually, how do I close as “unresolved” or “won’t fix” ;-)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

--- Comment #24 from Jens Troeger  ---
Thanks Alex.

I am closing this because I think this can not be fixed considering that LO now
uses harfbuzz as the text layout engine. However, I filed the following
follow-up bug: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=119234

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

--- Comment #23 from Alex Thurgood  ---
@Jens : to summarize, my suggestion would be to close this issue, as it has
become somewhat unclear as to what the specific problem is, and open new issues
for each clearly identified reproducible problem. 

This also makes it easier for QA volunteers like myself to confirm, and look
for duplicates.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

--- Comment #22 from Alex Thurgood  ---
@Jens : I'm not a developer, but my understanding is that the DOCX filter
converts the contents of the file to data structures held in memory which can
be drawn within the LO application on screen (at least, that was the way they
used to work, unless something has changed and I haven't followed it). Where
something isn't mapped correctly or with a suitable equivalent is where the
filter, and corresponding display in LibreOffice, tend to fall down and
discrepancies occur.

The filter isn't perfect, it was after all, reverse engineered, but
improvements are made to it on a regular basis, and of course, sometimes
changes to the code are involuntarily introduced which cause bugs.

The way that bugzilla functions within the LO project is in the identification
abd breakdown of individual problems that are reproducible, for example, with
regard to your particular document:

- font substitution for Tekton Pro Bold

- text flow around image object

- kerning and spacing differences between Word and LibreOffice on MacOS -
LibreOffice has recently-ish implemented harfbuzz library for opentype font
rendering, which has caused a number of already reported kerning and spacing
issues (and corresponding display incompatibilities) with certain fonts, not
just on MacOS, but also between OSes.

To my knowledge, MSWord on MacOS doesn't use harfbuzz. This in and of itself is
likely to cause visible differences in rendering when Word and LibreOffice are
compared side-by-side, absent any bugs in the DOCX import filter.

I can sympathize with the issues you envisage, with multi-page documents
containing images not displaying in the same way between Word and LibreOffice
for a given DOCX file, as I encounter this myself with regard to my own
clients, but improving that situation is an ongoing process which relies on
identification of a specific, reproducible problem, rather than a general "my
document doesn't look right" approach.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

--- Comment #21 from Jens Troeger  ---
Thanks Alex for your comment
(https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944#c16)

A few remarks and questions though.

I see much mention of your points 1) and 2) which puzzles me.  Such an approach
is not really an option in my case because customers give me a DOCX file which
enters an automated process—there is no way in that automation to use MS Word
for ODT conversion.  Moreover, the ODT conversion in Word sometimes fails just
as much as LO fails to read DOCX, so there doesn’t seem to be a win.

4) and 5) look like they have improved since I’ve last checked with LO 5.xx in
February. However, my Word version 16.16 still renders the footnote in three
lines (see the initial screen shot).

6) Do I understand correctly that LO reads a DOCX file by running it through an
internal DOCX → ODT filter, and then renders that ODT?

7) Comparing DOCX in Word 16.16 with that same DOCX in LO 6.0.5.2 still shows
different text flow around the image which causes different paragraph layout. 
For a document with several hundred pages, this cumulative error can be quite
significant!  Are you able to reproduce that difference with the DOCX attached
to this bug report?

8) I would agree, and I have already filed a bug report with Word.

@Alex, what are your thoughts on the images I uploaded on 2018-07-30?

Thanks!

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

--- Comment #20 from Alex Thurgood  ---
In the screenshots I have provided, the lefthand side is the DOCX file, the
righthand side is the MSWord-exported ODT file.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

--- Comment #19 from Alex Thurgood  ---
Created attachment 143991
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=143991=edit
Comparison of footnote and page reference render in DOCX and ODT

Comparison of footnote and page reference render in DOCX and MSWord-exported
ODT when opened in LO

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

--- Comment #18 from Alex Thurgood  ---
Created attachment 143990
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=143990=edit
Comparison of image spacing and organisation between DOCX and ODT

Comparison of image placement and spacing in DOCX and MSWord-exported ODT when
opened in LO

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

--- Comment #17 from Alex Thurgood  ---
Created attachment 143988
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=143988=edit
Comparison of heading Tekton Pro Bold with DOCX and ODT in LO

Comparison of the rendering of the header which uses Tekton Pro Bold in both
the DOCX and the MSWord-exported ODT when opened in LO.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

--- Comment #16 from Alex Thurgood  ---
I tested Jens' initial Word DOCX document on MacOS 10.13.6 as follows:

1) Opened the DOCX in Word (16.15 - 180709).
2) Saved as ODT.

3) Opened up both the DOCX file and the newly saved ODT file from Word in LO


Version: 6.2.0.0.alpha0+
Build ID: 36e1f6ebf0c74b4b90bbf1aab8d9ab69b8746f3a
CPU threads: 4; OS: Mac OS X 10.13.6; UI render: default; 
Locale: fr-FR (fr_FR.UTF-8); Calc: group threaded

4) The footnote font for both documents is given as Palatino Regular 10.
5) The display and positioning of the footnote between the two documents appear
to be identical. A screenshot is enclosed showing the comparison.

6) Note however, that word spacing / kerning do indeed appear to be different
in the ODT document produced by Word, whilst the DOCX document opened in LO
appears to be almost identical to the native document opened in Word.

7) WW8 Import in LO

Currently, the only differences I see in the Word DOCX document opened in LO
is:

(a) the title, which is broken along the line, and where the font Tekton Pro
Bold appears in italics in the Font menu, indicating that it has been
substituted, and the tooltip also indicates this ;

(b) the lack of a page reference (an error message is provided instead
Error:reference source not found) on page 2. 

8) ODT Export from Word 
Here, the spacing around the image object and the organisation of the image
object have not been respected on export from Word. In general, the paragraph
spacing in the ODT document is also incorrect, as the third paragraph starts on
the first page instead of on page 2. If it is due to a Word export problem,
then this part is NOTOURBUG.


@Jens - please choose only one issue from the above point (7), you should open
up a second bug report for the other issue.

If you choose the Tekton Pro font substitution issue, then this will probably
be closed as a DUPLICATE of bug 61134.

If you choose the page reference error issue, then please correct the title of
your report to reflect that.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

--- Comment #15 from Jens Troeger  ---
Created attachment 143826
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=143826=edit
Shape objects (grouped text and gfx objects) don’t render at all.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

--- Comment #14 from Jens Troeger  ---
Created attachment 143824
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=143824=edit
OO seems to remove spaces from text when rendering a DOCX.

The spaces are actually missing when I look at the string representation of the
object in the DOM (using MRI inspector).

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

--- Comment #13 from Jens Troeger  ---
Was there any progress on this issue? I’ve just tried LO 6.0.5.2 and it still
shows great differences in object rendering.

Worse, spaces seem to be removed from the text; spaces which _do_ exist in the
original DOCX file. See the attached screenshot.

Shape rendering is unfaithful to broken as well, see second attached
screenshot.

My question is: what’s the priority on investigating these issues, and fixing
them?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

Aron Budea  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEEDINFO|UNCONFIRMED
 Ever confirmed|1   |0

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

Korrawit Pruegsanusak  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Attachment #140102|application/octet-stream|application/vnd.openxmlform
  mime type||ats-officedocument.wordproc
   ||essingml.document

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

Korrawit Pruegsanusak  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Attachment #140103|application/octet-stream|application/vnd.oasis.opend
  mime type||ocument.text

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

Korrawit Pruegsanusak  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Attachment #140066|application/octet-stream|application/vnd.openxmlform
  mime type||ats-officedocument.wordproc
   ||essingml.document

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

--- Comment #12 from Jens Troeger  ---
I have updated the test documents and added the ODT saved with Word. I've also
updated the screen shots to compare the different ways the original Word DOCX
file is being rendered.

I noticed though, that the test document did not use the Tekton Pro font in
Word either although it's set to use it. I've fixed that, as you can see in the
screenshots.

Still, plenty of differences around the footnote container and paragraphs...

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

--- Comment #11 from Jens Troeger  ---
Created attachment 140103
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=140103=edit
ODT test document (saved from Word) to reproduce the problem.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

Jens Troeger  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Attachment #140066|0   |1
is obsolete||

--- Comment #10 from Jens Troeger  ---
Created attachment 140102
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=140102=edit
DOCX test document to reproduce the problem.

The original Word DOCX file.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

Jens Troeger  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Attachment #140065|0   |1
is obsolete||

--- Comment #9 from Jens Troeger  ---
Created attachment 140101
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=140101=edit
Shows the render differences of the test document between Word/DOCX, LO/DOCX,
LO/ODT.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33
   ||304

--- Comment #8 from V Stuart Foote  ---
Well here is an additional piece of NEEDINFO

Word 2016 OOXML is not the same format as ODF and we do filter conversion
between the formats.

Since your macOS Word 2016 will save to ODF (and so handling the footer and
header conversion and font assignment), how does the comparison of page
formatting across the doucment compare working in MS Word Generated ODF?

>From Writer you would Save-as -> "OpenDocument Text" .odt--and then compare
layout of that document between original on Word 2016 and a current LibreOffice
Writer release (5.4.5.1 or 6.0.2.1)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

--- Comment #7 from jens.troe...@light-speed.de ---
Thank you all for the discussion so far.

To clarify: this happens on the same system for the same user, where all
required fonts are available to that user. MS Word loads and renders the Tekton
font, whereas LO does not.

But as pointed out in comment 3 above, that is but one of several issues that
go awry with this document.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEEDINFO
 Blocks||103342
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #6 from V Stuart Foote  ---
(In reply to Timur from comment #5)
> If we choose a single issue, this bug should be about footnote. 
> But footnote font in MSO is "Palatino" and it's substituted in LO. From what
> I see, it is supplied in Mac. But I don't have it in Windows. So, wnot clear
> what would be the bug here. Better replacement? See Bug 64509.
> Title is "Tekton Pro Bold", not so nicely subsituted in LO. See Bug 61134.

Not clear here if the issue is on macOS, or when crossing between macOS and MS
Windows system. Assuming it is on the same macOS system, then same fonts are
available on that system and our ww8 import filter is incorrectly doing a font
replacement (we read the font assignment incorrectly in macOS's ww8 import
filter)--or there is no font substitution and our handling of font metrics
differs from MS Word (possible with move to HarfBuzz).

I'd suspect the second--but we'd need to know if there is a font replacement
occurring (i.e. bug 61134). Unfortunately we'd only see the font name name for
the style (text body/default or footnote) is showing italicized with tooltip
font is not available.

Q1--is this only on the same macOS system?

Q2--is the font being replaced with fallback incorrectly or not?


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=103342
[Bug 103342] [META] Font substitution bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 115944] Render differences of DOCX between Word and LibreOffice with Palatino and Tekton fonts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115944

Timur  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu
Summary|Render differences of DOCX  |Render differences of DOCX
   |between Word and|between Word and
   |LibreOffice |LibreOffice with Palatino
   ||and Tekton fonts

--- Comment #5 from Timur  ---
If we choose a single issue, this bug should be about footnote. 
But footnote font in MSO is "Palatino" and it's substituted in LO. From what I
see, it is supplied in Mac. But I don't have it in Windows. So, wnot clear what
would be the bug here. Better replacement? See Bug 64509.
Title is "Tekton Pro Bold", not so nicely subsituted in LO. See Bug 61134.

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