[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

Khaled Hosny  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|REOPENED|RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |DUPLICATE

--- Comment #23 from Khaled Hosny  ---


*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 55469 ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

--- Comment #22 from Khaled Hosny  ---
Created attachment 129408
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=129408=edit
Screenshot of the ODT document on master/5.3

This is how the ODT document looks on master, it looks fine to my untrained
eye.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

--- Comment #21 from Khaled Hosny  ---
I see three issues lumped together here:

1) Too much space between Ruby characters and the text below them which might
be related to how line height was calculated (it would help if the operating
system where these bugs are seen was indicated!)

2) Improperly importing Ruby characters from (some?) docx files.

3) Lack of offset control.

I suggest reporting 2) and 3) separately, lumping different issues together is
a sure recipe for not fixing any of them, and closing this issue id 1) is
verified to be fixed.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

Khaled Hosny  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||khaledho...@eglug.org

--- Comment #20 from Khaled Hosny  ---
(In reply to ishikawa from comment #19)
> Sorry it is not fixed at all.
> 
> > This seems to be the same problem already fixed in #55469
> 
> > *** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 55469 ***
> 
> Bug 55469 simply lists some problem cases using the MS-WORD as a reference
> for the behavior.
> 
> There is NO patch or anything in #55459. 
> 
> So the problem is not fixed.
> 
> So basically there has not been a progress over the last four years. Tough.
> 
> TIA

Before claiming that the issue is not fixed, have you actually tested with a
version that has the fix in bug 55459?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

ishik...@yk.rim.or.jp changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|RESOLVED|REOPENED
 Resolution|DUPLICATE   |---

--- Comment #19 from ishik...@yk.rim.or.jp ---
Sorry it is not fixed at all.

> This seems to be the same problem already fixed in #55469

> *** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 55469 ***

Bug 55469 simply lists some problem cases using the MS-WORD as a reference
for the behavior.

There is NO patch or anything in #55459. 

So the problem is not fixed.

So basically there has not been a progress over the last four years. Tough.

TIA

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

madmalkav  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |DUPLICATE

--- Comment #18 from madmalkav  ---
This seems to be the same problem already fixed in #55469

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 55469 ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

Matthew Francis fdb...@neosheffield.co.uk changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Severity|major   |enhancement

--- Comment #17 from Matthew Francis fdb...@neosheffield.co.uk ---
This is a request for a new feature/improvement
- Severity: enhancement

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

Matthew Francis fdb...@neosheffield.co.uk changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||83066

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

Matthew Francis fdb...@neosheffield.co.uk changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||fdb...@neosheffield.co.uk

--- Comment #16 from Matthew Francis fdb...@neosheffield.co.uk ---
This is not a duplicate of Bug 35301.

Japanese and Chinese can be written in various directions, commonly
horizontally left-to-right, but also vertically top-to-bottom with lines of
text starting at the right of the page.

This bug relates to phonetic guide text for Japanese, which for horizontally
written text is positioned above the main text, and for vertically written text
is positioned to the right of the main text. This is possible at present.

Bug 35301 relates to (Taiwanese style) phonetic guide text for Chinese, which
can be placed to the right of each character even for horizontal text. I don't
think there's currently even a way of specifying this in OpenDocument.

See http://www.omniglot.com/writing/zhuyin.htm for an example of this
side-by-side usage in horizontal text.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

tommy27 ba...@quipo.it changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||ba...@quipo.it

--- Comment #15 from tommy27 ba...@quipo.it ---
is this a duplicate of Bug 35301?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

--- Comment #11 from sasha.libreoff...@gmail.com 2012-06-27 23:45:34 PDT ---
Created attachment 63546
  -- https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=63546
PDF, produced from docx using msWord 2007 (Russian locale)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

sasha.libreoff...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Platform|Other   |All
 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
 Ever Confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #12 from sasha.libreoff...@gmail.com 2012-06-28 00:02:59 UTC ---
Thanks for attachments
I see two main problem:
1. no control of distance between regular text and Ruby in Format-Asian
phonetic guide
2. docx files opens without Ruby (but doc opens with Ruby)

May by somewhere also lost aligning of Ruby (left, centred, ...)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

--- Comment #13 from sasha.libreoff...@gmail.com 2012-06-28 00:06:02 PDT ---
@ Caolan
Greetings
What do You think about this problem (no control of distance between Ruby and
main text)?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

Caolán McNamara caol...@redhat.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||t...@fixedpoint.jp

--- Comment #14 from Caolán McNamara caol...@redhat.com 2012-06-28 01:42:29 
PDT ---
Not something I personally intend to do myself. It would be far better if
implemented by someone who really knows what's needed, rather that on a purely
theoretical basis of how its used which is all I have, so I'd just compound the
problems that the original implementation of these wasn't done by a native
CJK-using developer :-)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

--- Comment #8 from Tsukino Usagi oliver.rich...@gmail.com 2012-06-27 
06:57:06 UTC ---
Created attachment 63518
  -- https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=63518
Example of proper rubies from microsoft office 2010 docx file.

this file was created in office 2010, and shows how the rubies are properly
constructed and displayed.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

--- Comment #9 from Tsukino Usagi oliver.rich...@gmail.com 2012-06-27 
07:10:03 UTC ---
Created attachment 63521
  -- https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=63521
Ruby problem in LibreOffice

Here is the problem shown in a LibreOffice 3.5 ODT file. The problem is that
the rubies do not appear directly over the text, and there is no offset control
to space them properly. Thank you.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

--- Comment #7 from zephyrus00jp zephyrus0...@gmail.com 2012-06-02 02:00:06 
UTC ---
Hi,

I added a comparative result of exchanging document file ruby characters 
from an external mailing list discussion.

Bug 50607 - FILEOPEN, FILESAVE, FOMATTING : Japanese ruby-character handling is
broken

I wish that posting can act as master bug entry for ruby character handling.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

zephyrus00jp zephyrus0...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||50607

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

sasha.libreoff...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||sasha.libreoff...@gmail.com

--- Comment #5 from sasha.libreoff...@gmail.com 2012-05-08 03:46:32 PDT ---
Thanks for bugreport
Please, attach odt document, from which screenshot made (or similar odt).
Also, attach document with correct formatting of Ruby, made in MS Office

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

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https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

--- Comment #6 from Jiehong ma.jieh...@gmail.com 2012-05-08 07:59:25 PDT ---
I can't produce these documents but I am sure the author of this bug will.
However, I would like to point to the W3C requirement for Japanese text
composition: it is full of precious informations about Japanese composition and
also about Ruby characters. Here it is:
http://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/#basics_of_japanese_composition

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

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--- Comment #4 from Jiehong ma.jieh...@gmail.com 2012-03-20 09:55:41 PDT ---
I think the ruby implementation is just a hack in LibreOffice. It should be
rewritten to be able to handle this properly.

For example, in Taiwan, we used Zhuyin and it's only written on the right of
the characters. It's not even possible to write anything on the right of a
character in LibreOffice.

Plus, we even put the tone mark in the middle, on the right of the zhuyin… (you
can have a look at it there: http://rishida.net/blog/?p=494)

I don't have the motivation nor the abilities to hack the code of LibreOffice
but I wish someone want to do that.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

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Jiehong ma.jieh...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||ma.jieh...@gmail.com
Version|LibO 3.4.4 release  |LibO 3.5.1 Release

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

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--- Comment #3 from Tsukino Usagi oliver.rich...@gmail.com 2012-01-23 
06:56:41 PST ---
TO FIX this problem by hand, do NOT use the asian phonetic guide tool.

Create a table with two rows and format the ruby by hand. Set table to no
border and no padding. Set line spacing for asian text to the bare minimum.

It's an ugly hack and it breaks the idea of using styles and asian phonetic
guide, but as it stands LibreOffice cannot seem to do ruby properly and this is
your only way around it.

God only knows why it displays properly when using a font that does not support
CJK. I have been looking for a week or two now and I just cant find where in
the code to fix this.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

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https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44784

Tsukino Usagi oliver.rich...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Severity|normal  |major

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

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--- Comment #1 from Tsukino Usagi oliver.rich...@gmail.com 2012-01-14 
09:37:14 PST ---
NOTE: I've been combing through the sources to try and figure out what is
causing this problem. In the file:
vcl/win/source/gdi/salgdi3.cxx
around line 1800... I found out that someone has hardcoded a line size change,
adding to the vertical ascent of asian fonts. I can't believe such a solution
was ever approved, I am pretty sure this is the source of the problem. This
needs to be placed under user control, if this is the source of the problem, it
needs to be removed and users should be encouraged to use styles and format
their japanese text correctly. (Default Asian/CJK styles can be added)

At any rate this needs to be put under user control somehow, this problem is
equivalent to having an oversized vertical ascent in the font. Wow, I am so
surprised to see this. This easily breaks Japanese ruby.

I'm going to try to remove this or modify it and see if it solves the problem,
but I need help, I don't know how to modify the UI to allow the user to control
this value. I'll post comments here as I discover more.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 44784] FORMATTING: Japanese Ruby Characters require an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide

[bugzilla-daemon]

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--- Comment #2 from Tsukino Usagi oliver.rich...@gmail.com 2012-01-14 
18:30:04 PST ---
Ok, after digging through quite a bit I think I found out the best way to fix
this problem, or at least looking at how to approach it. Unfortunately my C++
is a little rusty and while I can understand the code if it's right in front of
me I estimate it would take me more than a month to understand the code well
enough to fix this. I am sorry I just can't spare the time. I would so love to
donate money to get this fixed (if that would help). Anyways:

In the file portmulti.cxx, around line 705, it became apparent to me that
LibreOffice renders ruby (furigana) using two separate lines. This is
problematic on many levels, not least of all because it alters the line spacing
and prevents ruby from ever touching the Japanese -- even if you alter the line
spacing for the second line in portmulti.cxx it looks like you will just cut
off the Japanese itself.

How to fix this problem:
1. (either) Change the way furigana (ruby) is rendered so it overlays over the
line (and add an offset control)... like in LaTeX (CJK overlay) or Microsoft
Office (which I believe has had an offset control in Asian Phonetic Guide for
at least seven years now, because of this problem!)
or
2. For two-line or ruby two-line text allow the Japanese text and ruby text to
be drawn on top of each other -- i.e. don't clip the Japanese or the ruby. THAT
is a bit of a hack but I imagine no one will ever complain about that since
line spacing is under user control. Maybe add a clip to line size checkbox to
styles, and then allow us to set line size independantly for the japanese and
the ruby (and not in total). That would be great but it won't be the same
solution as other Word Processors/Typesetters.

I really wish I could implement this myself. Thanks for helping if you can do
this.

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