[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 46527] FILESAVE: Duplicate the File Types List under "Save as..." to "Export..."

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46527

--- Comment #16 from famo  ---
Yeah, didn't saw that on either.

However if it wasn't available in OOo at that time, this explains it.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 46527] FILESAVE: Duplicate the File Types List under "Save as..." to "Export..."

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46527

Cor Nouws  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |WORKSFORME

--- Comment #15 from Cor Nouws  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #14)

> File > Save As Copy... already solves this use case. I use it when i need to
> open a .odt file and save it as a .docx, .doc, .txt, etc. without leaving my
> original .odt file.

Hé LOL, missed that one.
(hate to admit, but that's a disadvantage of using the key board ;) )

Famo: that feature is added to the menu in version 4.1
So a clear WorksForMe.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 46527] FILESAVE: Duplicate the File Types List under "Save as..." to "Export..."

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46527

--- Comment #14 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
(In reply to famo from comment #9)
> > Exporting a file will normally cause the loss of some data, ...
> Nope, as you self explain in c7 - some data is merely stripped and that ONLY
> in the exported document - there is no loss of data on export at all.

If you export to a PNG, all exchangeable data is lost.

> However did you read my usecase 2?
> 
> It is the other-way round, namely if you use 'Save as' and keep continuing
> editing.
> I just checked again in a recent LO-calc version:
> Save as csv, click warning away (what else should one do, it is the only way
> to "export" as csv).
> csv document is rendered/displayed exactly odc document, there is no hint of
> data-loss on Save.

File > Save As Copy... already solves this use case. I use it when i need to
open a .odt file and save it as a .docx, .doc, .txt, etc. without leaving my
original .odt file.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 46527] FILESAVE: Duplicate the File Types List under "Save as..." to "Export..."

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46527

--- Comment #13 from famo  ---
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #12)
> (In reply to famo from comment #11)
> > (In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #10)
> > > So your wish is for e.g. xls file format, you want the option to save your
> > > active ods file as xls, but continue to work in the ods file.
> > > 
> > That's right! Same for csv and probably all of the "Save as" file types.
> 
> I agree with Jay & Heiko that it would be confusing, non functional for e.g.
> export as graphics.
> I even think the list of useful extensions, is shorter than the non-useful
> ones.
> 
I don't quite understand this part. PNG is already available under Export which
is fine and should stay there.
This issue is only about the options under Export.

> > > Looks as a reasonable request to me.
> > > 
> > My thoughts exactly!
> 
> But for the UI-design a merge/combination of both lists, as you suggest, is
> not the first I would think of.

Did I?
My wording is probably not the best, but I merely wanted e.g. xls and csv
available as option under Export.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 46527] FILESAVE: Duplicate the File Types List under "Save as..." to "Export..."

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46527

--- Comment #12 from Cor Nouws  ---
(In reply to famo from comment #11)
> (In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #10)
> > So your wish is for e.g. xls file format, you want the option to save your
> > active ods file as xls, but continue to work in the ods file.
> > 
> That's right! Same for csv and probably all of the "Save as" file types.

I agree with Jay & Heiko that it would be confusing, non functional for e.g.
export as graphics.
I even think the list of useful extensions, is shorter than the non-useful
ones.

> > Looks as a reasonable request to me.
> > 
> My thoughts exactly!

But for the UI-design a merge/combination of both lists, as you suggest, is not
the first I would think of.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 46527] FILESAVE: Duplicate the File Types List under "Save as..." to "Export..."

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46527

--- Comment #11 from famo  ---
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #10)
> So your wish is for e.g. xls file format, you want the option to save your
> active ods file as xls, but continue to work in the ods file.
> 
That's right! Same for csv and probably all of the "Save as" file types.

> Looks as a reasonable request to me.
> 
My thoughts exactly!

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 46527] FILESAVE: Duplicate the File Types List under "Save as..." to "Export..."

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46527

--- Comment #10 from Cor Nouws  ---
So your wish is for e.g. xls file format, you want the option to save your
active ods file as xls, but continue to work in the ods file.
Looks as a reasonable request to me.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 46527] FILESAVE: Duplicate the File Types List under "Save as..." to "Export..."

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46527

famo  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|RESOLVED|NEW
 Resolution|WONTFIX |---

--- Comment #9 from famo  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #5)
> 'Save As' is a different feature to 'Export', which is why we have two
> separate commands with two separate file types list. 
> 
No doubt.


> Exporting a file will normally cause the loss of some data, ...
Nope, as you self explain in c7 - some data is merely stripped and that ONLY in
the exported document - there is no loss of data on export at all.

However did you read my usecase 2?

It is the other-way round, namely if you use 'Save as' and keep continuing
editing.
I just checked again in a recent LO-calc version:
Save as csv, click warning away (what else should one do, it is the only way to
"export" as csv).
csv document is rendered/displayed exactly odc document, there is no hint of
data-loss on Save.

> like exporting to html format, or the
> loss of all data, like when exporting to png, with the intend that it wont
> be re-edited in LibreOffice.
> 
If you are afraid of unaware data-loss on export, a warning (like the one on
"Save as"), could be added.


> UX-Team: If you disagree, please reopen.

Actually I disagree.
Just closing this provides no solution/improvement at all to my two very
real-world scenarios.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 46527] FILESAVE: Duplicate the File Types List under "Save as..." to "Export..."

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46527

--- Comment #8 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #7)
> Already answered, but lets take another stab at it. When you use 'Export'
> you save a copy of the current opened file into another file, similar to
> 'Save a Copy', and continue editing your original file. If PNG was available
> in 'Save As'...

Double-reasonable

> > (Side note: GIMP...

It was an example how I struggle with the distinction. In case of GIMP it's
artificial.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 46527] FILESAVE: Duplicate the File Types List under "Save as..." to "Export..."

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46527

--- Comment #7 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #6)
> Reasonable explanation though rather technical. It means the user has to be
> aware of the background and needs to know that HTML has limited capabilities
> compared to ODF. Assume the majority is aware of this difference but another
> Html as well as dbase, diff, text etc. are listed under Save As, which is
> confusing.

The 'Save As' dialog lists the same file types that are available in the 'Open'
dialog, except for the one that are read only formats like Quatro Pro. No idea
how the HTML in 'Save As' differs from the one in 'Export', but know that csv
text files are common files to editing in a spreadsheet, which is why its not
in 'Export'.

> Turning things around, would it really be distracting to find PNG under Save
> As? Why not merge the two menus?

Already answered, but lets take another stab at it. When you use 'Export' you
save a copy of the current opened file into another file, similar to 'Save a
Copy', and continue editing your original file. If PNG was available in 'Save
As', similar to PDF, then LO would have to strip away all non-editable features
and simply display the PNG on screen.

> (Side note: GIMP has Save/Save As that provides only internal formats (xcf).
> Guess most users do enter this menu like me looking actually for Export as
> PNG.)

Yes just like GIMP, you have Save/Save As which retains your original creation
with layers, guides, etc. with the intent to reopen it for continuous editing
and you have Export where you loose these features and output it in a format
for displaying (e.g. PNG) or data interchange (e.g. C source code).

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 46527] FILESAVE: Duplicate the File Types List under "Save as..." to "Export..."

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46527

--- Comment #6 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #5)
> Exporting a file will normally cause the loss of some data...

Reasonable explanation though rather technical. It means the user has to be
aware of the background and needs to know that HTML has limited capabilities
compared to ODF. Assume the majority is aware of this difference but another
Html as well as dbase, diff, text etc. are listed under Save As, which is
confusing.

Turning things around, would it really be distracting to find PNG under Save
As? Why not merge the two menus?

(Side note: GIMP has Save/Save As that provides only internal formats (xcf).
Guess most users do enter this menu like me looking actually for Export as
PNG.)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 46527] FILESAVE: Duplicate the File Types List under "Save as..." to "Export..."

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46527

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 CC||c...@nouenoff.nl,
   ||philip...@hotmail.com,
   ||tietze.he...@gmail.com,
   ||vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu
Version|Master old  -3.6|Inherited From OOo
 Blocks|85811   |102732
 Resolution|--- |WONTFIX

--- Comment #5 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
'Save As' is a different feature to 'Export', which is why we have two separate
commands with two separate file types list. Exporting a file will normally
cause the loss of some data, like exporting to html format, or the loss of all
data, like when exporting to png, with the intend that it wont be re-edited in
LibreOffice.

UX-Team: If you disagree, please reopen.


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85811
[Bug 85811] [META] Main menu bugs and enhancements
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102732
[Bug 102732] [META] File dialog bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 46527] FILESAVE: Duplicate the File Types List under "Save as..." to "Export..."

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46527

Thomas Lendo  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||85811


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85811
[Bug 85811] [META] Main menu bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 46527] FILESAVE: Duplicate the File Types List under Save as... to Export...

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46527

bfoman bfo.bugm...@spamgourmet.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||ore...@gmail.com

--- Comment #3 from bfoman bfo.bugm...@spamgourmet.com ---
*** Bug 55965 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 46527] FILESAVE: Duplicate the File Types List under Save as... to Export...

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46527

bfoman bfo.bugm...@spamgourmet.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||marco-owe...@gmx.de

--- Comment #4 from bfoman bfo.bugm...@spamgourmet.com ---
*** Bug 56285 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 46527] FILESAVE: Duplicate the File Types List under Save as... to Export...

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46527

Kohei Yoshida kohei.yosh...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|FILESAFE: Duplicate the |FILESAVE: Duplicate the
   |File Types List under Save |File Types List under Save
   |as... to Export...   |as... to Export...

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