[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2017-10-31 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |
   |.freedesktop.org|
  Component|ux-advise   |UI
 Blocks||110746


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=110746
[Bug 110746] [META] Option dialog's View settings bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2017-05-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||106228


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106228
[Bug 106228] [Meta] Icon issues
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2015-03-24 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

Jay Philips  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||f...@libreoffice.org

--- Comment #20 from Jay Philips  ---
(In reply to Adolfo Jayme from comment #19)
> Now that large icons are the default in every platform, shouldn’t the
> “Automatic” option be removed?

No automatic should be smart and if a user is on a small resolution screen, it
should automatically set the icons to small. (bug 86445)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2015-03-24 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

--- Comment #19 from Adolfo Jayme  ---
Now that large icons are the default in every platform, shouldn’t the
“Automatic” option be removed?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-12-20 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

Mike §chinagl  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||librele...@gmx.de

--- Comment #18 from Mike §chinagl  ---
This bug fix comes with LibreOffice 4.4 (release notes
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.4) 

Large icons are shown by default on Windows, as they are on Linux and Mac OS.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-11-18 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

Jay Philips  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

--- Comment #17 from Jay Philips  ---
Kendy put in the patch for this -
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=0a2d7345f756b49440ab7845ac0a1e991f2a014e

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-10-01 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

--- Comment #16 from Jay Philips  ---
Created attachment 107209
  --> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=107209&action=edit
large and small icons at 1024x768

This is to illustrate that with the default toolbars, it is fine to use large
icons when the screen width is 1024 and above.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-10-01 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

--- Comment #15 from Jay Philips  ---
(In reply to Olivier R. from comment #14)
> No. That’s a bad idea.
> If you have customized you toolbar, there are probably icons with no large
> size.
> 
> See the screenshots.
> Same toolbars, with small and large icons.

When you customize your toolbar, libreoffice doesnt associate the icon file you
set to the uno button you chose which only had text, so when you change from
small to large icons, those icons dont appear. The same thing has happened to
me when i changed from large icons to small. I simply go back into
customization and reapply those same icons to those text-only buttons.

This bug proposal is targetting users who never customize their toolbar, which
is the majority of users. Users who customize their toolbars and prefer smaller
icons will be able to change it to that.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-10-01 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

--- Comment #14 from Olivier R.  ---
Created attachment 107197
  --> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=107197&action=edit
customized toolbars with small and large icons

No. That’s a bad idea.
If you have customized you toolbar, there are probably icons with no large
size.

See the screenshots.
Same toolbars, with small and large icons.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-09-28 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

--- Comment #13 from Jay Philips  ---
(In reply to comment #12)
> Not sure why you’ve suddenly decided to post a bunch of screenshots of
> radically different software, what’s the point of it?

Well i had been wanting to post these for a while and after i had a discussion
in the design IRC about the issue, i decided to come back here to do it. 

> Are you trying to
> compare an office suite with antivirus programs, system utilities and
> simpler software such as a messenger? That’s crazy, not even the use cases
> are the same!

The point here wasnt about comparing applications, it was about whether
applications with toolbars on windows have small or large icons. If you wish to
brush aside a number of these applications, thats fine, but you cant brush
aside document viewers like Adobe Acrobat and Foxit Reader.

> And the Office Ribbon screenshot isn’t helpful either… it is
> only a demostration of the rationale behind the GSoC project I’ve already
> mentioned (comment 8).

The office ribbon screenshot was primarily to show what the various tabs of the
UI looked like for people who may not have it installed and that most icons
(big or small) have labels with them. If you look at the screenshots of most of
the applications that i previously linked to their screenshots, they also
follow a similar concept of having icons and labels. There isnt a need to wait
for when the GSoC project gets done, as that proposal will likely be an
optional feature and not the standard UI users will see by default. I will be
writing a patch for this fix in the next few days.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-09-28 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

--- Comment #12 from Adolfo Jayme  ---
Not sure why you’ve suddenly decided to post a bunch of screenshots of
radically different software, what’s the point of it? Are you trying to compare
an office suite with antivirus programs, system utilities and simpler software
such as a messenger? That’s crazy, not even the use cases are the same! And the
Office Ribbon screenshot isn’t helpful either… it is only a demostration of the
rationale behind the GSoC project I’ve already mentioned (comment 8).

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-09-28 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

--- Comment #11 from Jay Philips  ---
Created attachment 107033
  --> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=107033&action=edit
Toolbars - Large vs Small

As can be seen in the attached file, at a screen width of 1280, more than 40%
of the toolbars are empty with small icons and ~30% is empty with large icons.
Height-wise large icons take up 23 pixels more than small icons.

Here are examples of popular windows applications using large menu bars.

Adobe Acrobat -
http://cache.filehippo.com/img/ex/3172__adobe1_screenshot0207.png
WinRAR - http://cache.filehippo.com/img/ex/337__winRAR1.png
Foxit Reader - http://cache.filehippo.com/img/ex/1674__FoxitReader3_2.png
Thunderbird - http://cache.filehippo.com/img/ex/1053__thunderbird4.png
Yahoo Messenger -
http://cache.filehippo.com/img/ex/1534__Yahoo!Messenger10_2.png

- vertical tab bars -

Microsoft Security Essentails -
http://cache.filehippo.com/img/ex/1309__msseces_1.png
Malwarebytes - http://cache.filehippo.com/img/ex/3124__malwarebytes1_260614.png

- horizontal tab bars -

CCleaner - http://cache.filehippo.com/img/ex/3050__ccleaner3.png
Avast Antivirus - http://cache.filehippo.com/img/ex/2008__Avast_1.png

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-09-28 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

--- Comment #10 from Jay Philips  ---
Created attachment 107024
  --> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=107024&action=edit
The tabs in Word 2013

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-08-09 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

Jay Philips  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEEDINFO|NEW

--- Comment #9 from Jay Philips  ---
Thanks Adolfo for the history behind the large icons on linux and for the GSoC
link. I dont use mac so i'm not familiar with TextEdit, but i do use Calligra
Words and so see a few large icons with labels in the sidebar for items like
footnote, but they dont have a large icon for inserting a table.

> Again, HiDPI is unrelated to this! If LibreOffice adaptes (i.e. scales)
> correctly for HiDPI screens, you will perfectly see a “small” icon, although
> a bit blurry.

A user's screen resolution is definitely a related issue and one of the primary
reasons for this suggestion. The higher the user's resolution, the smaller the
icons appear on the screen. My use of the words "higher resolution" related to
resolutions equal to and above 1280x768, and at such resolutions, the small
icons are not easy to see and understand for a new/regular user.

> Not true, look deeper...

Yes i was mistaken, the wording should have been "most buttons have labels".
The only ones that dont are ones in the font and paragraph sections and if we
did a percentage of which ones do have labels, it would easily be 95% or more.

> In the end, I do not believe bigger icons will help an unrecognizable icon
> to be recognizable, which was the rationale behind this report. Again,
> change the icons to use a better metaphor, and then see if a random
> twitterer complains.

I have already submitted a bug report about fixing the chart icon's metaphor
(bug 82272), and the rationale behind this report isnt simply about it.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-08-08 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

Adolfo Jayme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |NEEDINFO

--- Comment #8 from Adolfo Jayme  ---
Large icons were default in Linux only because GNOME made large icons bigger
(before the GNOME3 era, which dropped the concept from their app design), a
stupid “rationale” anyway. AOO doesn’t have that setting and defaults to small
everywhere.

We should switch to large if running in touch-screen systems, though.

> I would like to see that link about the GSoC code proposal

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/index.php?title=Development/GSoC/Ideas&oldid=88966#Improve_toolbars_in_LibreOffice

This proposal was about highligting important commands contextually. If you’ve
ever used OS X’s TextEdit or Calligra Office you’ll know what I mean.

Now that you mention it, I don’t know why that paragraph disappeared from the
current wiki page...

> It definitely isnt impossible, but if your at a higher resolution, it become

Again, HiDPI is unrelated to this! If LibreOffice adaptes (i.e. scales)
correctly for HiDPI screens, you will perfectly see a “small” icon, although a
bit blurry.

> Also another thing about ms word's ribbin UI, all buttons have labels,

Not true, look deeper...

In the end, I do not believe bigger icons will help an unrecognizable icon to
be recognizable, which was the rationale behind this report. Again, change the
icons to use a better metaphor, and then see if a random twitterer complains.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-08-08 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

--- Comment #7 from Jay Philips  ---
Also another thing about ms word's ribbin UI, all buttons have labels, even
when they have some 16x16 icons, there is a word next to it to explain it which
is seen right away, while libreoffice uses tooltips.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-08-08 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

Jay Philips  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEEDINFO|NEW

--- Comment #6 from Jay Philips  ---
(In reply to comment #5)
> You say it's "optimal" based on one twitter complainer?

Its has been an issue i planned to suggest for some time after introducing a
number of users to libreoffice and have seen there reaction to the small icons
on windows and the large icons on linux. And after the twitter discussion, i
decided that i should report this.

> Those changes were made well before 4.3, in a "Tango Testing" theme, FTR.
> See also Astron's and Miroslav's GitHub accounts.

They may have been made before 4.3 but no users would have seen it before the
4.3 release. In my 4.2.5 version of windows, i have galaxy, high contrast,
crystal, tango, oxygen, and sifr.

> It's certainly not impossible.

It definitely isnt impossible, but if your at a higher resolution, it become
even more difficult to see. I was at my friend's place today and i was showing
him the sidebar with his screen resolution being 1400x900 and we couldnt figure
out the shadow button by just looking at it. With the old tango theme, it was
quite easy to see the shadow behind the letter 'A' at this resolution.

> Really, somebody explain why we need to switch to an oversized and even more
> cluttered default configuration. I wouldn't mind making *some* icons bigger,
> in order to highlight them, but not everything! There was a GSoC proposal to
> code this, why not wait for it?

The large buttons are not oversized at high resolutions. They may be oversized
at 800x600 but definitely arent at any resolution equal to and above 1280x768.
The large icons in ms word are 32x32, while libreoffice's large icons are set
to 26x26. MS word has some large and small icons to highlight more important
features, but they can do this with a single large bar. This cant be achieved
with the toolbars system that libreoffice uses. I would like to see that link
about the GSoC code proposal, if you have it.

When it is the large icon set on both Mac and Linux, i dont see what the fuss
is over having the same in Windows, as i'd assume the same argument used to
have it large on Mac and Linux would apply to Windows.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-08-08 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

Adolfo Jayme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |NEEDINFO

--- Comment #5 from Adolfo Jayme  ---
(In reply to comment #3)
> I personally am happy with small icons, but this bug is about what's best
> for regular/new users, and of course those who like small have the option to
> change it to small icons in the options dialog. As most users never change
> the default settings, its always best to have the most optimal choice
> already set out for them.

You say it's "optimal" based on one twitter complainer?

> I think libreoffice's Sifr icons have a good icon metaphor if they were set
> by default, but unfortunately they arent. By default, libreoffice uses Tango
> and and unfortunately some of these tango icons aren't well designed, which
> is why i believe a number of them were changed in 4.3.

Those changes were made well before 4.3, in a "Tango Testing" theme, FTR. See
also Astron's and Miroslav's GitHub accounts.

> [...] But whether or not you have a good icon metaphor, it becomes harder
> to correctly represent it when you have to design a small 16x16 icon

It's certainly not impossible.


Really, somebody explain why we need to switch to an oversized and even more
cluttered default configuration. I wouldn't mind making *some* icons bigger, in
order to highlight them, but not everything! There was a GSoC proposal to code
this, why not wait for it?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-08-08 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

Emir Sarı  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-08-08 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

--- Comment #4 from Emir Sarı  ---
I am supporting this change, I think it's one of the best we can do to improve
visual look without using much resources.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-08-08 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

Jay Philips  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEEDINFO|UNCONFIRMED
 Ever confirmed|1   |0

--- Comment #3 from Jay Philips  ---
(In reply to comment #1)
> IIRC, currently there are 32, 64, 128 and 256 bit icon sets. So exactly
> which are you suggesting be used -- and where -- on the UI? You need to
> flesh out the suggestion.

I'm suggesting libreoffice use its large set, which i'd assuming is 32.

(In reply to comment #1)
> Personally, I am not a fan of over sized ICONs, although they are a
> necessity when supporting HDPI monitors--but that is a different issue.

(In reply to comment #2)
> Please, no. I already hated the change in OS X, where it doesn’t fit at all.

I personally am happy with small icons, but this bug is about what's best for
regular/new users, and of course those who like small have the option to change
it to small icons in the options dialog. As most users never change the default
settings, its always best to have the most optimal choice already set out for
them.

(In reply to comment #2)
> If our icon metaphors suck, large icons won’t help.

I think libreoffice's Sifr icons have a good icon metaphor if they were set by
default, but unfortunately they arent. By default, libreoffice uses Tango and
and unfortunately some of these tango icons aren't well designed, which is why
i believe a number of them were changed in 4.3. But whether or not you have a
good icon metaphor, it becomes harder to correctly represent it when you have
to design a small 16x16 icon, so having a larger icon will always help.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-08-07 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

--- Comment #2 from Adolfo Jayme  ---
Please, no. I already hated the change in OS X, where it doesn’t fit at all.

> I'm assuming that if the icons were larger, it may have been easier for him 
> to spot and understood what the icon was.

If our icon metaphors suck, large icons won’t help.

Also, don’t confuse with the whole HiDPI thing. Yes, it does need bigger icons,
but these are still proportional to the relative size of the UI, which is also
bigger (as in more pixels) in HiDPI.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 82309] Using large icons as default on windows

2014-08-07 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82309

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEEDINFO
 CC||vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #1 from V Stuart Foote  ---
@Jay, *,
(In reply to comment #0)
> Similar to Emir's bug 68174 for using large icons in Mac OS X by default,
> i'd like to suggest that LibO also use large icons on Windows by default.
IIRC, currently there are 32, 64, 128 and 256 bit icon sets. So exactly which
are you suggesting be used -- and where -- on the UI? You need to flesh out the
suggestion.

Personally, I am not a fan of over sized ICONs, although they are a necessity
when supporting HDPI monitors--but that is a different issue.

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