[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

Xisco Faulí  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||needsUXEval

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

Timur  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90
   ||497

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||103435


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=103435
[Bug 103435] Sidebar new decks/tabs
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90
   ||646

--- Comment #13 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
(In reply to Tomaz Vajngerl from comment #12)
 Jay, do you think this still makes sense when we would have style sets
 (Quick styles)? I guess a normal user just wants to pick one consistent look
 he likes and maybe manually tweak some thing here and there. With themes he
 can in addition change the fonts and colors which should already make him
 happy.

Well this implementation had styles sets which i referred to as group styles in
the description, but also allowed the user to play with a variety of different
styles for different parts of the document and then likely they would tweak it
to match with similar colors if thats what they wanted. With styles sets, you
cant mix and match different parts of one style set with another, which is
possible with this implementation.

 I think we should rather think about how to make it simpler to change a
 style and bring styles closer to the user. Currently our sidebar is very
 direct formatting oriented as the styles are totally separate, but we could
 tweak that. For example I like how iWork Pages (13) shows the current style
 on the top and the user can has an easy access to other styles from there.
 Also the user can see quickly if any direct formatting was applied and has
 the option to update the style.

Yes the most important feature missing from the sidebar in writer's properties
tab is style selection (bug 73071). If its possible to implement iWork Pages'
mechanism of showing that a paragraph style has been modified by direct
formatting and provide an easily means of updating it, i think it would be a
good feature to have in the sidebar. In my first mockup of the sidebar
properties tab (bug 83830), i had an update button next to the drop down.

https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/attachments/download/196/Proposal---Explained.png

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

--- Comment #12 from Tomaz Vajngerl qui...@gmail.com ---
Jay, do you think this still makes sense when we would have style sets (Quick
styles)? I guess a normal user just wants to pick one consistent look he likes
and maybe manually tweak some thing here and there. With themes he can in
addition change the fonts and colors which should already make him happy.

I think we should rather think about how to make it simpler to change a style
and bring styles closer to the user. Currently our sidebar is very direct
formatting oriented as the styles are totally separate, but we could tweak
that. For example I like how iWork Pages (13) shows the current style on the
top and the user can has an easy access to other styles from there. Also the
user can see quickly if any direct formatting was applied and has the option to
update the style.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90
   ||048

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

--- Comment #10 from Jan Holesovsky ke...@collabora.com ---
Some random code pointers:

The previews of the styles in the toolbar is done in
svx/source/tbxctrls/tbcontrl.cxx, see SvxStyleBox_Impl::UserDraw().

The sidebar with styles is I think here: sfx2/source/dialog/templdlg.cxx

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

--- Comment #11 from Jan Holesovsky ke...@collabora.com ---
Some random code pointers:

The previews of the styles in the toolbar is done in
svx/source/tbxctrls/tbcontrl.cxx, see SvxStyleBox_Impl::UserDraw().

The sidebar with styles is I here: sfx2/source/dialog/templdlg.cxx .  The
SfxTemplatePanelControl is plugged into the sidebar in
svx/source/sidebar/PanelFactory.cxx (seach for new SfxTemplatePanelControl).

For anything new in the sidebar, it would be better to use the .ui
descriptions; so if you want to build on top of the existing styles panel, best
to convert it to .ui as the first thing.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

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https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

--- Comment #9 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
It seems that the styles gallery tab of predefined styles would be very useful
in Calc when taking into consideration the comments that recently came in
through our recent Calc survey. Here are a few:

1) ... A Dropdown list to Apply Style like the one in writer would encourage
me to use styles. And there should be a nice set of predefined styles.

2) ... When looking at a spreadsheet, there's only a limited number of cell
types and therefore a limited number of styles you require. These styles should
be easy to use and be reliable. Ideally manual editing should be unnecessary. A
useful set of default syles, targeted at spreadsheets rather than generic usage
would be a GREAT (if not to say obligatory) start.

3) It would help a lot for the use of styles to see a preview in the list. I
think this is the case also for other LibO apps. But there is a need of more
default styles (only 5 currently). ...

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

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https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

--- Comment #7 from Mirek2 maz...@gmail.com ---
If I understand the proposal correctly, this would be a way to quickly change
the look of a single style based on some presets.

If I'm right, I don't see the utility in having something like this. Could you
describe a realistic scenario in which one might use this?

If this is meant to be a way to quickly change a single style, nothing beats
being able to change the hard formatting of a selection and then changing the
style based on that selection. Given that one generally tweaks the style
because they have a particular look in mind, I doubt presets would be helpful
in this case.

If this is intended as a way to quickly change the appearance of text in a
document in general, then themes take care of this in a much better way. It'd
be better to direct development to implement themes (something that will need
to be done anyway for MS Office compatibility).

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists
   ||.freedesktop.org

--- Comment #8 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
(In reply to Mirek2 from comment #7)
 If I understand the proposal correctly, this would be a way to quickly
 change the look of a single style based on some presets.

Yes you'd be able to change a single or group of styles based on some presets.

 If I'm right, I don't see the utility in having something like this. Could
 you describe a realistic scenario in which one might use this?

Scenario for single style: User opens LO. He adds header text and sets it to
Heading 1. He doesnt like how it looks. He opens up the style gallery and
browses through the heading 1 list for something he likes. He applies it.

Scenario for group style: User opens a MS Word document in LO. He hates the
currently applied style and wants to reset it to LO's default style. He opens
up the style gallery and browses the group style list for the LO default style.
He applies it.

 If this is meant to be a way to quickly change a single style, nothing beats
 being able to change the hard formatting of a selection and then changing
 the style based on that selection.

For advanced users, this would likely be their approach, or alternatively, they
would create the new style in the style dialog box. But this tab is primarily
targeting users with no knowledge of styles and users who know about styles but
would less likely create their own.

 Given that one generally tweaks the style
 because they have a particular look in mind, I doubt presets would be
 helpful in this case.

Yes more advanced users will likely tweak their style in the style, while less
style savvy users will likely apply direct over an applied style to tweak it.

 If this is intended as a way to quickly change the appearance of text in a
 document in general, then themes take care of this in a much better way.
 It'd be better to direct development to implement themes (something that
 will need to be done anyway for MS Office compatibility).

The group styles would work like a combination of MS Office's themes and style
sets.

In order to push users to use styles, we need to first get them into using
styles, and in order to get them into using styles, we need to give them a
collect of style presets, which they can easily apply to their documents.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Severity|normal  |enhancement

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

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https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

A (Andy) stgohi-lob...@yahoo.de changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #6 from A (Andy) stgohi-lob...@yahoo.de ---
(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #5)
 Hi Andy,
 
 (In reply to A (Andy) from comment #4)
  Does it mean that also with your proposal the current styles and formatting
  section from LO 4.3 sidebar would still stay as it is without any preview?
 
 Yes styles and formatting is for style management, this new tab would be
 only to add new styles to the document.

OK, but nevertheless this style gallery proposal with a preview sounds for me
very good and I hope that in future there will be also a kind of preview for
the current style management.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

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https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

--- Comment #1 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
Created attachment 109138
  -- https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=109138action=edit
sample mockup

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

A (Andy) stgohi-lob...@yahoo.de changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||stgohi-lob...@yahoo.de

--- Comment #2 from A (Andy) stgohi-lob...@yahoo.de ---
Is my understanding correct, that this regarding the Styles and Formatting
section in the sidebar?  Does it mean that you would get a kind of preview for
the different styles and formats?  
I ask this, because I would like to have a preview of the styles and
formatting maybe similar to the font preview.  Currently, we have there a long
list where you don't know in advance how this would look like.  
And as I understand this mockup it would not only show a preview, but you would
also have different kinds of formatting for instance for text body and others
among you could choose?  This would be very good because the standard headings
formats are not the one I would like to have and therefore it would be great if
you could choose there between more different types of headings for instance
for Heading 1 to 5 (the ones I use most).

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

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https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

--- Comment #3 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
Hi Andy,

(In reply to A (Andy) from comment #2)
 Is my understanding correct, that this regarding the Styles and Formatting
 section in the sidebar?  Does it mean that you would get a kind of preview
 for the different styles and formats?  

This is a new tab for the sidebar that has a gallery of styles that can be
added to a document and it shows a preview of it.

 I ask this, because I would like to have a preview of the styles and
 formatting maybe similar to the font preview.  Currently, we have there a
 long list where you don't know in advance how this would look like.  

The styles and formatting tab list the styles available in your document and
there isnt a preview of these styles.

 And as I understand this mockup it would not only show a preview, but you
 would also have different kinds of formatting for instance for text body and
 others among you could choose?  This would be very good because the standard
 headings formats are not the one I would like to have and therefore it would
 be great if you could choose there between more different types of headings
 for instance for Heading 1 to 5 (the ones I use most).

Yes it would list a variety of different types of a particular style so that
you can apply that variant to your document.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

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https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

--- Comment #4 from A (Andy) stgohi-lob...@yahoo.de ---
Hi Jay,

(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #3)
...
 
  I ask this, because I would like to have a preview of the styles and
  formatting maybe similar to the font preview.  Currently, we have there a
  long list where you don't know in advance how this would look like.  
 
 The styles and formatting tab list the styles available in your document and
 there isnt a preview of these styles.

Does it mean that also with your proposal the current styles and formatting
section from LO 4.3 sidebar would still stay as it is without any preview?

...

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 86039] SIDEBAR: Styles gallery tab

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https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86039

--- Comment #5 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
Hi Andy,

(In reply to A (Andy) from comment #4)
 Does it mean that also with your proposal the current styles and formatting
 section from LO 4.3 sidebar would still stay as it is without any preview?

Yes styles and formatting is for style management, this new tab would be only
to add new styles to the document.

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