[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991
Bug 97991 depends on bug 158492, which changed state.

Bug 158492 Summary: share/config/images_helpimg.zip should'nt be in the main 
MSI archive
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158492

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|RESOLVED|UNCONFIRMED
 Resolution|NOTABUG |---

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

Jérôme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on||158498


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158498
[Bug 158498] share/extensions/nlpsolver/help : translations could move in MSI
files for offline translated help
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

Jérôme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on||158497


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158497
[Bug 158497] share/extensions/wiki-publisher/help : translations could move in
MSI files for offline translated help
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991
Bug 97991 depends on bug 158492, which changed state.

Bug 158492 Summary: share/config/images_helpimg.zip seems an unused legacy file
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158492

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |NOTABUG

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

Jérôme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on||158492


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158492
[Bug 158492] share/config/images_helpimg.zip seems an unused legacy file
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

Jérôme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on||158383


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158383
[Bug 158383] program/classes : store uncompressed classes in jar files for
faster startup and smaller installation file
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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Stéphane Guillou (stragu)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also|https://bugs.documentfounda |
   |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15 |
   |8183|

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Jérôme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on||157885


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=157885
[Bug 157885] help png images could use indexed colours
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

Jérôme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on||158233


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158233
[Bug 158233] the main MSI archive contains translated icons in help directory
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

Jérôme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on||158183


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158183
[Bug 158183] examples files in help contain the "image preview" inside
(thumbnail)
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Jérôme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on||158250


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158250
[Bug 158250] impress templates : a few png images could use indexed colours
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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Jérôme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15
   ||7885

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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Jérôme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Crash report or|158183  |
crash signature||
   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15
   ||8183

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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Jérôme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Crash report or||158183
crash signature||

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Jérôme  changed:

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   ||8250

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Jérôme  changed:

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   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15
   ||8233

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

--- Comment #18 from Mike Kaganski  ---
(In reply to Jérôme from comment #17)
> Comment #7 by Óvári proposed a solution in order to decrease the download 
> size :
> ...
> 
> This last solution solves several problems:
> ...
> - better user understanding of language-related topics.

No, it doesn't solve this - it requires this (better understanding of
language-related topics) from users. Adding requirements does not solve
anything.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

Jérôme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 OS|All |Windows (All)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

--- Comment #17 from Jérôme  ---
In reply to comment #16 :
> what prevents from installing everything,
> even when you use one to three languages?

The problem encountered by my organization is not related to the installed
size. My organization distributes a version of LibreOffice to over 10,000
computers. On each host, wapt downloads the complete MSI archive. On our large
internal network, we are experiencing problems due to the large size of this
MSI archive.


Comment #12 by Mike Kaganski reported a bad user experience when UI language
and help are in separate packages :
> The problem with help packs not working is
> that users use one UI language,
> but have help pack from another.
> They don't find it intuitive
> to match UI language and help pack language

So, for Windows users, we could gather all "one language" related files in a
single package.


Comment #7 by Óvári proposed a solution in order to decrease the download size
:
> If effort is going to be expended
> to create separate downloads,
> perhaps the best solution
> for minimal downloads would be to have:
> * a core LibreOffice download (without any language pack); and
> * each language as a *separate* download, not grouped at all.

This last solution solves several problems:
- reduced download size,
- better user understanding of language-related topics.

In addition, the language settings of LibreOffice could provide an Internet
link to download additional language packs (always installed for all computer
users).

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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--- Comment #16 from Mike Kaganski  ---
(In reply to Jérôme from comment #15)

And what prevents from installing everything, even when you use one to three
languages?
We have continuing problems with Linux distro packages, where they offer
"modularity", which results in users' confusion, when they expect something to
work, but it doesn't, because some package was missing. Going into the same
rabbit-hole on Windows would be an insanity; we already removed some options
from the installer just because of that [1].

Indeed, one may argue that the proposal here doesn't go as far; but I think
that even today's installer is just too complex, and should be simplified to
install *everything* without options. Exceptions might *possibly* be considered
only for components that might create security issues, like ActiveX component.

[1]
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.2#Installer_(Windows_only)

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Mike Kaganski  changed:

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   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15
   ||7809

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

--- Comment #15 from Jérôme  ---
This discussion didn't mentioned the install with the wapt tool.

In my organisation, we spread a new LibreOffice release with wapt but we are
using a maximum of 3 languages (for the documents themselves but 1 language for
the user interface and the help).

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V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12
   ||4992

--- Comment #14 from V Stuart Foote  ---
And see also bug 124992 would take things the opposite direction, larger
installers (core and help/localization) and then based on os/DE locale sort it
out.

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V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||jerome.bo...@laposte.net

--- Comment #13 from V Stuart Foote  ---
*** Bug 153844 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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V Stuart Foote  changed:

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   ||2877

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

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Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113117
[Bug 113117] [META] Windows installer/uninstaller bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

--- Comment #12 from Mike Kaganski  ---
The recurring questions on AskLibO that keep asking why a help pack doesn't
work suggest that having different installers for different languages bring
more confusion than help.

The problem with help packs not working is that users use one UI language, but
have help pack from another. They don't find it intuitive to match UI language
and help pack language; the hypothetical one-helppacks-in-one-installer
scenario would solve great number of user problems. Of course, at cost of
increased download size.

The reduced size of program installer wouldn't be that small as to help people
to go from 4 hrs of download to 15 minutes. More realistic is scenario when
this will reduce to ~3 hrs; and that would still make most people who refuse to
download now to keep refusing. But the cost will be great, both in terms of
developers effort, infrastructure (size required for each version on servers),
and user support in cases like where a single-regional setup is tried to be
upgraded by all-lang installer (waste of bandwidth again, because user now
needs to re-download required package?) or other interesting issues.

My strong opinion is WONTFIX.

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V Stuart Foote  changed:

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   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11
   ||3119

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   |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10 |
   |7571|

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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--- Comment #11 from Yousuf (Jay) Philips  ---
(In reply to Óvári from comment #7)
> Not sure if “en-US, de, ar, ja, ru, qtz” are a similar set of languages;
> however for testing purposes they may give a broad cross-section of use
> cases.

Yes these select languages were chosen as a means of testing a broad range of
languages. e.g. ja to test asian/cjk languages, ar to test rtl/ctl languages

> If effort is going to be expended to create separate downloads, perhaps the
> best solution for minimal downloads would be to have:
> * a core LibreOffice download (without any language pack); and

There would always have to be atleast a single language pack in it or else it
wouldnt work

> * each language as a *separate* download, not grouped at all.

Not sure how much benefit would be attained in this approach, as each language
UI pack is normally quite small in size ( < 2Mb ).

(In reply to Andras Timar from comment #8)
> Windows installer is created with help of a huge Perl script and standard
> tools from Windows SDK, such as msidb.exe.
> 
> Installer maker script is configurable in regards of languages you build in,
> and you can fine tune what go into the package in scp2. 
> 
> So, in theory, your goal can be reached.

Glad to hear.

> The situation was the same everywhere in the world 15 years ago. It is easy
> to get used to the comfort of high speed net connection, but I think 4 hours
> is not that much (maybe those users will not download LibreOffice daily for
> testing).

Yes my brother doesnt use the daily builds, but with the cost/availability of
electricity where he is, he chose not to download it.

> If TDF ever decides to split the installer for different languages
> or geographies, I hope that the decision will be based on some survey and
> calculations of cost/benefit, not on anecdotal evidence.

The main object of this issue was to save users from downloading an installer
larger than what they need, which in turn would reduce TDF's bandwidth costs.
It was also to make the installer closer in size to LO competitors like AOO
(134Mb) and WPS (78Mb). But yes i do see the ramifications of this proposal as
it would involve extra work for building as well as modification of the
website, so it would be good for someone/committee to read through the proposal
and make a decision in it.

(In reply to Michael Meeks from comment #9)
> There are several goals here that are in tension with each other:
> 
> * reduce download size
>  + I assume this is not a goal; since the help has significant size[1],
>and by bundling lots of help files in we will rapidly become larger
>than the existing download.
>  + IMHO our ~static 200Mb download footprint is reasonably small.
> + I suspect we could even increase this;
>   I'd say an upped 250Mb is reasonable myself.

The proposal wasnt to include help packages as part of the installer, as that
would highly increase the size, it was about removing things currently bundled
and possibly include small useful extra items, like additional fonts, into
particular installers. The old windows daily builds which only had english
bundled were around ~120mb.

> * reduce install size
>  + IMHO our ~1Gb install size is reasonably small too.
> + Office 2013 requires 3Gb:
>   +
> https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee624351.aspx?f=255=-
> 2147217396

The install size of ~1Gb would be only if a user installed every single
language in the installer, but most users are likely to only install 1 to 3
languages, which means the install size for most users would be around 600mb.

> * increased font bundling
>  + seemingly we want to include more fonts for some locales
>   + in general a bit of engineering work can usually save
> some space to free it up for more fonts without growing
> our download footprint, if we're indeed too worried
>   about that.

With the CJK font mentioned in the other bug being around ~100mb uncompressed,
i would wonder how much it could be reduced in an .msi file.

> * distribute on-line help in the package
>  + this essentially requires cutting the package into several
>pieces as suggested in order to keep the size sensible, that:
>  + increases our test burden
>- 5x builds to test instead of one.

Is this about testing the installer or testing the languages, as if it is about
testing the languages, CJK users would only be testing the CJK version, and of
course download the extra help package to also test that.

>  + somewhat increases our releng burden
>- 5x builds to push -> more B/W
>-> a relatively small effect though

Yes there would be 5 more installers to push, but alot less B/W would be
consumed from downloaders.

>  + download page simplification / complexity
>- this will need 

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

Stephan Bergmann  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||sberg...@redhat.com

--- Comment #10 from Stephan Bergmann  ---
(In reply to Michael Meeks from comment #9)
> * improve performance
>  + there is some level of cost from having all languages installed,
>I don't think this has been characterized recently - but it might
>be interesting to do that again in eg. cachegrind to get a hard
>number of eg. startup cost with more langs installed.
>   + this should have some technical fix of course.

And I assume that, although the .msi contains all languages, only a small
subset is preselected during installation, so that a typical scenario will end
up with only a small number of languages actually installed?

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--- Comment #9 from Michael Meeks  ---
There are several goals here that are in tension with each other:

* reduce download size
 + I assume this is not a goal; since the help has significant size[1],
   and by bundling lots of help files in we will rapidly become larger
   than the existing download.
 + IMHO our ~static 200Mb download footprint is reasonably small.
  + I suspect we could even increase this;
I'd say an upped 250Mb is reasonable myself.

* reduce update size ?
 + not an explicit goal thus far, but clearly after the initial download
   the size of the incremental updates is prolly by far more important
   than the download size itself. This is an area where TDF could invest
   in improving things for the vast majority of users.

* reduce install size
 + IMHO our ~1Gb install size is reasonably small too.
+ Office 2013 requires 3Gb:
+
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee624351.aspx?f=255=-2147217396

* improve performance
 + there is some level of cost from having all languages installed,
   I don't think this has been characterized recently - but it might
   be interesting to do that again in eg. cachegrind to get a hard
   number of eg. startup cost with more langs installed.
  + this should have some technical fix of course.

* increased font bundling
 + seemingly we want to include more fonts for some locales
  + in general a bit of engineering work can usually save
some space to free it up for more fonts without growing
our download footprint, if we're indeed too worried
about that.

* distribute on-line help in the package
 + this essentially requires cutting the package into several
   pieces as suggested in order to keep the size sensible, that:
   + increases our test burden
 - 5x builds to test instead of one.
   + somewhat increases our releng burden
 - 5x builds to push -> more B/W
 -> a relatively small effect though
 + download page simplification / complexity
 - this will need re-engineering / tweaking
 - will need to be different for Windows.
 - how reliably can we detect people's locales
   and map that to the "click here to download"
   so 99.9% don't mis-download the wrong thing ?
   If we have eg. 2% downloading the wrong thing
   this adds ~4Mb to our apparent download size.
   + some engineering to the packaging perl scripts
 - some man days of work; no need to move to Wix.
 + I guess we would want to have roughly 20 languages
   in each of say five piece.
 + against this:
  + would obsolete the on-line help for Windows users.
  + what %age of users actually use the on-line help ?
Previous studies I've seen suggest a surprisingly
small number; and clearly an even smaller number
of them are off-line at the time.
  ie. what is the benefit ? =)
  + confusion wrt. "what is LibreOffice" - mine is
not the same as yours etc. "yours does not have my
language" etc.

* Anyway - all things are possible; I imagine if someone has
  done the engineering work already; and has a real proposal
  that might be more interesting.

My general suggestion would be to optimize our size and
packaging instead; I imagine investing in reducing and compacting
and/or better arrangement in the MSI so that the compression works
better (it is IIRC per-file based not global so it can't see
commonality between eg pt_BR and pt if they are in different streams)
would be a better use of time. Other things like moving our clipart to
SVG from PNG might help too (it compresses better usually).

And/or if we want to include more things, upping the target
file-size limit might be a good idea.

Just my 2 cents.

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

--- Comment #8 from Andras Timar  ---
(In reply to Yousuf (Jay) Philips from comment #4)
> 
> @Andras: Would be good to hear your feedback.

Windows installer is created with help of a huge Perl script and standard tools
from Windows SDK, such as msidb.exe.

Installer maker script is configurable in regards of languages you build in,
and you can fine tune what go into the package in scp2. 

So, in theory, your goal can be reached.

I do not see why WiX or other installer maker frameworks would be better, but I
see a big amount of work, if someone wants to migrate the scripts from one
framework to the other. 

> 
> I personally dont have any issues with the current installer as i have a
> 10MB fiber optics connection, i've spoken to people who had difficulties
> downloading it because of size (e.g. my brother who lives in Somalia where
> he has a shared 512kb connection and it took him ~4 hours to download it).
> 

The situation was the same everywhere in the world 15 years ago. It is easy to
get used to the comfort of high speed net connection, but I think 4 hours is
not that much (maybe those users will not download LibreOffice daily for
testing). If TDF ever decides to split the installer for different languages or
geographies, I hope that the decision will be based on some survey and
calculations of cost/benefit, not on anecdotal evidence.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

Óvári  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #7 from Óvári  ---
(In reply to Yousuf (Jay) Philips from comment #6)
> the windows daily installer on @62 only includes a similar set of
> languages (en-US, de, ar, ja, ru, qtz).

Not sure if “en-US, de, ar, ja, ru, qtz” are a similar set of languages;
however for testing purposes they may give a broad cross-section of use cases.

If effort is going to be expended to create separate downloads, perhaps the
best solution for minimal downloads would be to have:
* a core LibreOffice download (without any language pack); and
* each language as a *separate* download, not grouped at all.

There could be a page on LibreOffice.org to download language packs. It could
look like:
http://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-fresh/?type=win-x86_64=pick
with the title changed from “Please select your language” to “Language packs
for Windows 64 bit”.

Having each language *separate* may make adding extra languages easier as:
* extra languages would not need to find which build of LO it should be added
to;
* if there are similar languages that could be bundled together, but there is a
political situation between the languages, this would be avoided;
* installation files would be the absolute minimum, satisfying bug 97991.
Perhaps it would also reduce the amount of data through a government/enterprise
installation (this could be a lot for installations in the magnitude of 10^4 or
more).

The Mac build has challenges as the Release Notes state, “Mac OS X: Please
start LibreOffice at least once before installing a LangaugePack.”
(https://www.libreoffice.org/download/release-notes/). Perhaps this blocks this
bug.

I thought that the current install is optimal, hence suggested WorksForMe;
however, a core LO installation (without any languages) and separate language
packs for each language would be the best solution for: reducing the download
size, data travelling through a network when installations in the magnitude of
10^4.

Setting to status to UNCONFIRMED → NEW.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

--- Comment #6 from Yousuf (Jay) Philips  ---
Just as an additional piece of information about the breakup based on
languages, the windows daily installer on @62 only includes a similar set of
languages (en-US, de, ar, ja, ru, qtz).

http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/Win-x86@62-merge-TDF/current/

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

--- Comment #5 from Yousuf (Jay) Philips  ---
(In reply to Óvári from comment #2)
> 1. How would the new arrangement change the installation instruction (cf.
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/install-howto/windows/) without
> complicating them further?

There would be no changes there, the changes would happen on the download page
which would allow users to select which download they'd want, just like we
currently have when a user selects to download help in their language. (e.g.
http://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-fresh/?type=win-x86=5.1=de
)

> 2. It could create confusion for LibreOffice users if there are different
> downloads for different locations.

If this is presented in the right way, there wont be any confusion. Here is
firefox's download page, and it isnt confusing (
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all/ ).

> 3. In multicultural Australia there is a large likelihood that there is a
> person from almost every nation that LibreOffice supports is in Australia.
> Spelling checkers/grammar checkers/thesauri for English and another language
> is convenient by being bundled in the one installer.

As stated, the full installer would still be available for to users who want
all the languages, but no single user in Australia would need every language to
be included in the installer, as there is a limit to the number of languages
they speak/know.

> 4. It was interesting to note that you listed
> ro (Romanian) in LibreOffice-westEU
> hu (Hungarian) in LibreOffice-eastEU
> when *hu* is more west and *ro* is more east.

That was a typo, but you can see that i've listed <
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_language > under LibreOffice-eastEU.

> 5. There may be request to bundle LibreOffice on political alliances, eg.
> have a installer which has all the EU member states included.

Well they can grab the full installer. The main advantage of break up EU into
west and east is because of the sizes of their dictionaries and the languages
spoken their. Germany on the west has the largest dictionary at 70mb and the
largest dictionaries on the east (hu, el, ro, ru) total to 27.5mb.

> 6. The current set-up with separate downloads for each offline help in the
> language seems very simple on all account, except perhaps if there a
> download limits. Perhaps solutions could be found like:
> a) bundling LibreOffice on the cover DVD of computing magazines
> b) hosting LibreOffice on local ISP ftp servers
> c) some other creative options which would not divert the resources of TDF
> from enhancing LibreOffice, Document Liberation

Strange that downloading separate offline help is acceptable, but we wouldnt
consider the same for UI and dictionaries. Downloading multiple help files for
multilingual individuals wouldnt be the simplest process. Many users wouldnt
eve notice the 'LibreOffice in other languages' link on the download page, as i
know i didnt notice it the first time i visited.

> 7. You mentioned that this concept would not work for Linux. Microsoft may
> be a temporary platform as:
> a) Moving a city to Linux needs political backing, says Munich project leader
>   
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2082460/moving-a-city-to-linux-needs-
> political-backing-says-munich-project-leader.html
> b) Russia Plans to Move to Linux
>http://news.softpedia.com/news/russia-plans-to-move-to-linux-500278.shtml
> c) German town of Gummersbach migrates to Linux
>   
> http://osssa.org.za/2014/10/07/german-town-of-gummersbach-migrates-to-linux/
> d) There may be other migrations to Linux happening, whether in government
> or business, that are not in the news

In the linux builds, we dont bundle all the language packs into the installer (
http://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/latest/deb/x86/
), so users would need to download the separate language packs like they
download the separate help packs on windows. Also most linux users get
LibreOffice through their package manager, so they dont visit the website to
download it, unlike Windows and Mac users.

Windows isnt going anywhere and that wont being changing anytime soon no matter
which governments switch over to linux, as there are more people in businesses
and in their homes than employees in a government.

(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #3)
> To give another example: You placed en
> (en_GB or en_US?) in all packages, likely to offer English to everybody. But
> not taking the other big languages into account might be offending to many
> people. 

Yes en meant en_US (our default english) so that it is available to everyone
and the LibreOffice-default included all the major languages, that dont have
their own dedicated installer.

> Messing up language with politics is always a big problem.

The organization was based on languages and geographics, not politics.

> The better procedure would be to distribute only the hard-coded language and

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

Yousuf (Jay) Philips  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||tima...@gmail.com

--- Comment #4 from Yousuf (Jay) Philips  ---
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #1)
> @Jay,

@Stuart,

> The problem would be in maintaining this diverse set of installers. MSI
> based installers are monolithic by design--we're lucky to have Andras Timar
> willing to maintain the Windows packaging for our VS build scripts.

@Andras: Would be good to hear your feedback.

> Frankly, I don't have any issues with current packaging of Windows
> installers and offline help packs.

I personally dont have any issues with the current installer as i have a 10MB
fiber optics connection, i've spoken to people who had difficulties downloading
it because of size (e.g. my brother who lives in Somalia where he has a shared
512kb connection and it took him ~4 hours to download it).

> The size of the installer is the price of
> admission--and, we distribute via ISO for DVD and in portable versions for
> those bandwidth constrained.

>From what i could see, the ISO on DVD is available in north america and germany
and most users will miss downloading the portable additions because its isnt on
the standard download page for fresh and still and all links (e.g. the big
'Download Now' button on the homepage or in press releases and news articles )
link directly to < http://www.libreoffice.org/download/ >. It is interesting to
see that the full portable version is only 166mb, which makes me wonder why the
msi file is so much larger.

> Suspect to get any traction on this, TDF would need to hire a FTE release
> engineer to specialize in Windows installer packaging--probably WiX based
> and move away from MS Visual Studio based packaging-- to be able to support
> the more granular packaging you are suggesting.

Not sure if this would help, but there are msi editors like -
http://www.instedit.com/ - so likely there maybe some commandline msi apps that
could automate the process.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

--- Comment #3 from Heiko Tietze  ---
A lot of good arguments from Óvári. To give another example: You placed en
(en_GB or en_US?) in all packages, likely to offer English to everybody. But
not taking the other big languages into account might be offending to many
people. 
Messing up language with politics is always a big problem.

The better procedure would be to distribute only the hard-coded language and
provide language packs (typically PO files) from another source (if possible
directly from Pootle). Users could download the language pack from inside the
program (Tools > Options > Language Settings).

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

Óvári  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||ovar...@gmail.com

--- Comment #2 from Óvári  ---
(In reply to Yousuf (Jay) Philips from comment #0)
A list of reasons for keeping the status quo is the optimal solution, i.e. the
current arrangement where all the languages are in one file.

1. How would the new arrangement change the installation instruction (cf.
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/install-howto/windows/) without
complicating them further?

2. It could create confusion for LibreOffice users if there are different
downloads for different locations.

3. In multicultural Australia there is a large likelihood that there is a
person from almost every nation that LibreOffice supports is in Australia.
Spelling checkers/grammar checkers/thesauri for English and another language is
convenient by being bundled in the one installer.

4. It was interesting to note that you listed
ro (Romanian) in LibreOffice-westEU
hu (Hungarian) in LibreOffice-eastEU
when *hu* is more west and *ro* is more east.

5. There may be request to bundle LibreOffice on political alliances, eg. have
a installer which has all the EU member states included.

6. The current set-up with separate downloads for each offline help in the
language seems very simple on all account, except perhaps if there a download
limits. Perhaps solutions could be found like:
a) bundling LibreOffice on the cover DVD of computing magazines
b) hosting LibreOffice on local ISP ftp servers
c) some other creative options which would not divert the resources of TDF from
enhancing LibreOffice, Document Liberation

7. You mentioned that this concept would not work for Linux. Microsoft may be a
temporary platform as:
a) Moving a city to Linux needs political backing, says Munich project leader
  
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2082460/moving-a-city-to-linux-needs-political-backing-says-munich-project-leader.html
b) Russia Plans to Move to Linux
   http://news.softpedia.com/news/russia-plans-to-move-to-linux-500278.shtml
c) German town of Gummersbach migrates to Linux
   http://osssa.org.za/2014/10/07/german-town-of-gummersbach-migrates-to-linux/
d) There may be other migrations to Linux happening, whether in government or
business, that are not in the news

The current arrangement WorksForMe.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 97991] Reducing the size of the Windows Installer

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97991

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu

--- Comment #1 from V Stuart Foote  ---
@Jay,

The problem would be in maintaining this diverse set of installers. MSI based
installers are monolithic by design--we're lucky to have Andras Timar willing
to maintain the Windows packaging for our VS build scripts.

Frankly, I don't have any issues with current packaging of Windows installers
and offline help packs. The size of the installer is the price of
admission--and, we distribute via ISO for DVD and in portable versions for
those bandwidth constrained.

Suspect to get any traction on this, TDF would need to hire a FTE release
engineer to specialize in Windows installer packaging--probably WiX based and
move away from MS Visual Studio based packaging-- to be able to support the
more granular packaging you are suggesting.

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