Re: [Libreoffice-qa] retest ping to UNCONFIRMED bugs older than 6 months

2014-11-04 Thread Tommy
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 16:24:44 +0100, Joel Madero   
wrote:



For now I'm not doing this just because there are so many other things
to do and as of now I'm not seeing a clear message as to what we're
doingI've seen at least 3-4 proposals with different links and the
like. I suggest this be resolved on QA call, finalized, maybe a wiki
written as to what the plan is, then we can move forward.



I agree with you. QA call must decide that.
regarding the multiple links you saw they are only because of different  
periods of time selected (1 year, 6 months, 100 days etc etc)... again the  
correct timeframe we want to ping has to be decided with the QA team.


moreover we have to decide if pinging just UNCONFIRMED old bugs or even  
NEW bugs (excluding the easy hacks).


in recent weeks I've seen many of UNCONF and NEW old bugs turning into WFM  
after retest with recent LibO releases (by me or other QA guys like beluga  
and Stuart Foote)


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

2014-11-04 Thread Kohei Yoshida
On Thu, 2014-10-30 at 16:39 +, Michael Meeks wrote:
> + would be nice to have some blog-posts / picture posts (Bjoern)

I just finished mine.

http://kohei.us/2014/11/03/seattle-librefest/

Kohei

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ... - correction ...

2014-11-04 Thread Kohei Yoshida
On Tue, 2014-11-04 at 11:38 +, Michael Meeks wrote:
> On Thu, 2014-10-30 at 16:39 +, Michael Meeks wrote:
> > * Seattle Hackfest (Robinson/Norbert)
> ...
> > + badly need ways to stop 'building' consuming the hack-fest (Michael)
> > + or a way to keep hand-holding after the hack-fest (Bjoern)
> ...
> > + vast majority of people wanted access to VM
> > + monster communication problem with cloph ...
> > + Robinson was briefed on how to do that (cloph)
> > + Info emailed to hackfest devs (Robinson)
> > -> communication droppeded <-
> 
>   Incidentally it was just pointed out to me that "monster communication
> problem with cloph" could read as some hyper-criticism of him =) that's
> by no means the case - as (I hope) the context points out as we started
> to dig deeper there were probably several failures of communication /
> preparedness on the topic somewhere in the gap between cloph -> Robinson
> -> other mentors -> hack-fest attendees.

And also, my comment was never meant as a criticism of "someone not
doing the job".  It was rather a simple piece of feedback that I hoped
would be useful for future hackfest planning.

So, let's not take this as a "failure" please.  We had a successful
hackfest, and everybody chipped in what they could.  No need to paint
this negatively.

Kohei

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Unconfirmed jump - sorry!

2014-11-04 Thread Robert Großkopf
Hi Cor,

>> Robert Großkopf wrote on 04-11-14 16:34:
>>> Sometimes I reported bugs and the bugs where set to "New" directly by
>>> the system, not by me. Don't know why the system decided the bug is
>>> confirmed and new ...
>>
>> I think that depends on how you start.
>> When you start from https://bugs.freedesktop.org/query.cgi and select
>> new at the top and then Libreoffice, it will be UNCONFIRMED
>>
>> When you start from the link "File a new bug in the "LibreOffice"
>> product"
> 
> available after running a query...

That's it. Most times I run a query for see all open bugs of Base - then
I start from the query with "File new ..."

Robert
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Unconfirmed jump - sorry!

2014-11-04 Thread Joel Madero

On 11/04/2014 08:13 AM, Cor Nouws wrote:
> Joel Madero wrote on 04-11-14 17:06:
>> On 11/04/2014 07:58 AM, Cor Nouws wrote:
>>> Joel Madero wrote on 04-11-14 16:34:
 @ Cor - if you'd like you can take a look yourself and move them to NEW
>>> Thanks for explaining Joel.
>>> By how did they end in the wrong REOPENED state in the first place?
>> I have been looking at the history to see if the bug was ever marked as
>> NEW - I touched about 55 bugs yesterday and some moved directly to NEW.
>> As to how they got to REOPENED status - who knows, sometimes a user
>> incorrectly set it after a bug was set to NEEDINFO, sometimes a QA
>> member incorrectly set it, etc . . . it's hard to say that there is
>> consistency.
> Trying to get consistency is good. But I'm quite confident that it's
> hard too with may different /new volunteers.
> And people - like me - not looking too much at documentation, for some
> reason..

Indeed it's hard but to me that doesn't mean ignore the problem.
REOPENED bugs are literally ignored by everyone - devs don't touch them,
QA don't touch them, they just sit forever. 275 isn't too bad for me to
handle alone and get them either into NEW or to UNCONFIRMED. After this
point, we can keep track of them better and keep them under control by
spreading out the work amongst all the volunteers. Not paying attention
to documentation shouldn't prevent us from at least trying to do it right ;)


Warm Regards,
Joel
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Unconfirmed jump - sorry!

2014-11-04 Thread Cor Nouws
Cor Nouws wrote on 04-11-14 17:18:
> Robert Großkopf wrote on 04-11-14 16:34:
>> Sometimes I reported bugs and the bugs where set to "New" directly by
>> the system, not by me. Don't know why the system decided the bug is
>> confirmed and new ...
> 
> I think that depends on how you start.
> When you start from https://bugs.freedesktop.org/query.cgi and select
> new at the top and then Libreoffice, it will be UNCONFIRMED
> 
> When you start from the link "File a new bug in the "LibreOffice"
> product"

available after running a query...

> product" that sets it to NEW.
> 
> Anyway, that's what I think ;)
> 
> 


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Unconfirmed jump - sorry!

2014-11-04 Thread Cor Nouws
Robert Großkopf wrote on 04-11-14 16:34:
> Sometimes I reported bugs and the bugs where set to "New" directly by
> the system, not by me. Don't know why the system decided the bug is
> confirmed and new ...

I think that depends on how you start.
When you start from https://bugs.freedesktop.org/query.cgi and select
new at the top and then Libreoffice, it will be UNCONFIRMED

When you start from the link "File a new bug in the "LibreOffice"
product" that sets it to NEW.

Anyway, that's what I think ;)


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ... - correction ...

2014-11-04 Thread Norbert Thiebaud
On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 6:29 AM, Kohei Yoshida
 wrote:
>
> And also, my comment was never meant as a criticism of "someone not
> doing the job".  It was rather a simple piece of feedback that I hoped
> would be useful for future hackfest planning.
>
> So, let's not take this as a "failure" please.  We had a successful
> hackfest, and everybody chipped in what they could.  No need to paint
> this negatively.
>

I would like to add, in a more general sens: the point of these ESC
call is, in big part, to discuss and review 'pain points', thinks that
are causing trouble, hindering work, etc... and to try to find
practical and actionable solutions to re-mediate, improve things... it
is never to 'assign blame'.

So, to all readers of the minutes out there, always assume the former
not the later :-)

Norbert.
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Unconfirmed jump - sorry!

2014-11-04 Thread Cor Nouws
Joel Madero wrote on 04-11-14 17:06:
> 
> On 11/04/2014 07:58 AM, Cor Nouws wrote:
>> Joel Madero wrote on 04-11-14 16:34:
>>> @ Cor - if you'd like you can take a look yourself and move them to NEW
>> Thanks for explaining Joel.
>> By how did they end in the wrong REOPENED state in the first place?
> 
> I have been looking at the history to see if the bug was ever marked as
> NEW - I touched about 55 bugs yesterday and some moved directly to NEW.
> As to how they got to REOPENED status - who knows, sometimes a user
> incorrectly set it after a bug was set to NEEDINFO, sometimes a QA
> member incorrectly set it, etc . . . it's hard to say that there is
> consistency.

Trying to get consistency is good. But I'm quite confident that it's
hard too with may different /new volunteers.
And people - like me - not looking too much at documentation, for some
reason..

> So I suppose I'll apologize if I move any of yours to UNCONFIRMED -
> there are only 27 more that you are cc'ed on and I'll try to be "extra
> careful" with these - but currently the REOPENED status are completely
> ignored by QA because they are not consistent. "Management" of these
> bugs (ie. moving them correctly to the right status, or at least an
> effort to do so) is better than continuing to ignore them.

Hè hè ;)
As written, I'll try half an hour this evening to look at some of the
27. Thanks for your work and patience here.

Cor

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Unconfirmed jump - sorry!

2014-11-04 Thread Joel Madero

On 11/04/2014 07:58 AM, Cor Nouws wrote:
> Joel Madero wrote on 04-11-14 16:34:
>> @ Cor - if you'd like you can take a look yourself and move them to NEW
> Thanks for explaining Joel.
> By how did they end in the wrong REOPENED state in the first place?
I have been looking at the history to see if the bug was ever marked as
NEW - I touched about 55 bugs yesterday and some moved directly to NEW.
As to how they got to REOPENED status - who knows, sometimes a user
incorrectly set it after a bug was set to NEEDINFO, sometimes a QA
member incorrectly set it, etc . . . it's hard to say that there is
consistency.

So I suppose I'll apologize if I move any of yours to UNCONFIRMED -
there are only 27 more that you are cc'ed on and I'll try to be "extra
careful" with these - but currently the REOPENED status are completely
ignored by QA because they are not consistent. "Management" of these
bugs (ie. moving them correctly to the right status, or at least an
effort to do so) is better than continuing to ignore them.

Best,
Joel
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Unconfirmed jump - sorry!

2014-11-04 Thread Cor Nouws
Joel Madero wrote on 04-11-14 16:34:
> @ Cor - if you'd like you can take a look yourself and move them to NEW

Thanks for explaining Joel.
By how did they end in the wrong REOPENED state in the first place?

And if someone looks at the bugs, can that person pls look at details
and history him/herself to see if the status has to be NEW?
Sorry that I need to avoid this work. I spent some time on testing and
try to set fields to my best knowledge. When there's time left (what
isn't the case) there are some nasty cases that I have to file, jump to
help translation etc. MC improvements, ..

Kind Regards,
Cor


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Unconfirmed jump - sorry!

2014-11-04 Thread Joel Madero

Hey Robert,
> Hi Joel,
>
>> Furthermore, some
>> of those bugs were "self confirmed" which we recommend against. That
>> being said, if a bug is confirmed and I set it to UNCONFIRMED just set
>> it to NEW and move onthere were 350+ bugs incorrectly set...you'll
>> see more moving to UNCONFIRMED if they were set incorrectly to begin
>> with.
> Sometimes I reported bugs and the bugs where set to "New" directly by
> the system, not by me. Don't know why the system decided the bug is
> confirmed and new ...
Yeah there are some fun hiccups in bugzilla ;) But all in all:
New = Confirmed;
Unconfirmed = not confirmed;
Reopened = bug is assigned to a developer who claimed they fixed it but
the issue can still be reproduced on a later version of LibreOffice.

Sometimes you have to put a bug into NEEDINFO and then move it to
another status (for instance you can't go directly from REOPENED to
UNCONFIRMED - which is kind of crappy ;) )

Best,
Joel
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Unconfirmed jump - sorry!

2014-11-04 Thread Robert Großkopf
Hi Joel,

> Furthermore, some
> of those bugs were "self confirmed" which we recommend against. That
> being said, if a bug is confirmed and I set it to UNCONFIRMED just set
> it to NEW and move onthere were 350+ bugs incorrectly set...you'll
> see more moving to UNCONFIRMED if they were set incorrectly to begin
> with.

Sometimes I reported bugs and the bugs where set to "New" directly by
the system, not by me. Don't know why the system decided the bug is
confirmed and new ...

Regards

Robert
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Unconfirmed jump - sorry!

2014-11-04 Thread Joel Madero
@ Cor - if you'd like you can take a look yourself and move them to NEW
if you believe they should be there, here are the bugs in REOPENED
status that you are a commenter on:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=REOPENED&email1=cno%40nouenoff.nl&emaillongdesc1=1&emailtype1=substring&list_id=489142&product=LibreOffice&query_format=advanced

Note that REOPENED should only be used if (1) the bug is assigned to a
developer; (2) the bug was previously marked fixed by assigned
developer; (3) you can reproduce the same issue on a later version after
the assigned developer reported as FIXED.

Any bug that doesn't meet the above criteria should be set to NEW (if
confirmed of course, hopefully by a third party independent person...),
or UNCONFIRMED (if not confirmed)

Best,
Joel

On 11/04/2014 07:15 AM, Joel Madero wrote:
> Yes because they were set to REOPENED incorrectly. REOPENED has a
> specific definition and they were incorrectly there. Furthermore, some
> of those bugs were "self confirmed" which we recommend against. That
> being said, if a bug is confirmed and I set it to UNCONFIRMED just set
> it to NEW and move onthere were 350+ bugs incorrectly set...you'll
> see more moving to UNCONFIRMED if they were set incorrectly to begin
> with. Also the comments that you points out didn't clearly confirm the
> bugs that I asked. Anyways, expect more.
>
>
> Best,
> Joel
>
>
>
> On 11/04/2014 01:13 AM, Cor Nouws wrote:
>> Hi Joel,
>>
>> Joel Madero wrote on 04-11-14 04:47:
>>
>>> So I just booted about 50 bugs over to UNCONFIRMED so that list has
>>> jumped. I'm going through the rest of the list of about 280 more bugs -
>> Sorry that I'm not fully aware of what's going on here, but I'm rather
>> annoyed by the fact that bugs that I have spend precious time on in the
>> past, to test and confirm, now are reset to unconfirmed...
>> e.g. 35275, 35917, 35954, 83373.
>>
>> If the goal is that the issues are retested for some reason, then pls
>> indicate that. Or do it yourself.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] retest ping to UNCONFIRMED bugs older than 6 months

2014-11-04 Thread Joel Madero
For now I'm not doing this just because there are so many other things
to do and as of now I'm not seeing a clear message as to what we're
doingI've seen at least 3-4 proposals with different links and the
like. I suggest this be resolved on QA call, finalized, maybe a wiki
written as to what the plan is, then we can move forward.


Best,
Joel


On 11/03/2014 09:06 PM, Tommy wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 06:49:35 +0100, Tommy  wrote:
>
>> once 4.2.7 and 4.3.3 are now available, I think we could run the
>> "please retest" automated message to UNCONFIRMED bugs older than 6
>> months.
>>
>> actually there's 94 out of them. see list:
>> http://snipurl.com/29eckcc
>>
>>
>> let's see what's the feedback ratio and then decide if doing the same
>> on older NEW bugs (excluding easy hacks as already discussed in the
>> mailing list(
>>
>
> or maybe we could ping older than 100 days bug from this list (193 bugs):
> http://snipurl.com/29ejxgd
>
>
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Unconfirmed jump - sorry!

2014-11-04 Thread Joel Madero
Yes because they were set to REOPENED incorrectly. REOPENED has a
specific definition and they were incorrectly there. Furthermore, some
of those bugs were "self confirmed" which we recommend against. That
being said, if a bug is confirmed and I set it to UNCONFIRMED just set
it to NEW and move onthere were 350+ bugs incorrectly set...you'll
see more moving to UNCONFIRMED if they were set incorrectly to begin
with. Also the comments that you points out didn't clearly confirm the
bugs that I asked. Anyways, expect more.


Best,
Joel



On 11/04/2014 01:13 AM, Cor Nouws wrote:
> Hi Joel,
>
> Joel Madero wrote on 04-11-14 04:47:
>
>> So I just booted about 50 bugs over to UNCONFIRMED so that list has
>> jumped. I'm going through the rest of the list of about 280 more bugs -
>
> Sorry that I'm not fully aware of what's going on here, but I'm rather
> annoyed by the fact that bugs that I have spend precious time on in the
> past, to test and confirm, now are reset to unconfirmed...
> e.g. 35275, 35917, 35954, 83373.
>
> If the goal is that the issues are retested for some reason, then pls
> indicate that. Or do it yourself.
>
> Thanks!
>
>

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ... - correction ...

2014-11-04 Thread Michael Meeks

On Thu, 2014-10-30 at 16:39 +, Michael Meeks wrote:
> * Seattle Hackfest (Robinson/Norbert)
...
> + badly need ways to stop 'building' consuming the hack-fest (Michael)
> + or a way to keep hand-holding after the hack-fest (Bjoern)
...
> + vast majority of people wanted access to VM
> + monster communication problem with cloph ...
> + Robinson was briefed on how to do that (cloph)
> + Info emailed to hackfest devs (Robinson)
> -> communication droppeded <-

Incidentally it was just pointed out to me that "monster communication
problem with cloph" could read as some hyper-criticism of him =) that's
by no means the case - as (I hope) the context points out as we started
to dig deeper there were probably several failures of communication /
preparedness on the topic somewhere in the gap between cloph -> Robinson
-> other mentors -> hack-fest attendees.

My minuting, never perfect was much less than ideal here; sorry for
that.

We love you cloph ! =)

ATB,

Michael.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Unconfirmed jump - sorry!

2014-11-04 Thread Cor Nouws
Hi Joel,

Joel Madero wrote on 04-11-14 04:47:

> So I just booted about 50 bugs over to UNCONFIRMED so that list has
> jumped. I'm going through the rest of the list of about 280 more bugs -


Sorry that I'm not fully aware of what's going on here, but I'm rather
annoyed by the fact that bugs that I have spend precious time on in the
past, to test and confirm, now are reset to unconfirmed...
e.g. 35275, 35917, 35954, 83373.

If the goal is that the issues are retested for some reason, then pls
indicate that. Or do it yourself.

Thanks!


-- 
Cor Nouws
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