Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Robinson Tryon]

On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Joel Madero  wrote:
>
> We could use a G+ page for sure (maybe we can send in pictures of ourselves
> to give it a bit of character). What we don't want is a system where a
> google account is required to access our conference call via a computer -
> this has already been made clear to be dead on arrival.

+1

> What would be the stated purpose of G+ page? If we have a clear purpose for
> having one, I say why not :) We could put up links to QA blogs, do stats
> there, general QA announcements -- seems like we have a purpose, so if you
> can set one up that'd be great.

I think a G+ page could be helpful to increase LibreOffice's (and the
QA Team's) visibility to people who are very active on that network.
I'd suggest that whatever materials/resources we put up on the G+
page, we make sure that we also provide those resources elsewhere so
that we don't create a dependency on G+ or put any extra pressure on
our members/users to join the social network.

Cheers,
--R
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Joel Madero]

On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 4:32 AM, Florian Reisinger wrote:

> IMHO great idea (Dreaming of a G+ QA page). IMHO it has several benefits
> and two downsides:
> (I don't caref about those to be honest, but many others do...)
> - No way to join over phone (better: telephone function of the phone.
> Possible with G+ apps)
> - Google+ Account needed...
>
> I would volunteer to setup a G+ page. ;)
>

We could use a G+ page for sure (maybe we can send in pictures of ourselves
to give it a bit of character). What we don't want is a system where a
google account is required to access our conference call via a computer -
this has already been made clear to be dead on arrival.

What would be the stated purpose of G+ page? If we have a clear purpose for
having one, I say why not :) We could put up links to QA blogs, do stats
there, general QA announcements -- seems like we have a purpose, so if you
can set one up that'd be great.

Best,
Joel
-- 
*Joel Madero*
LibreOffice QA Volunteer
jmadero@gmail.com
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Kieran Peckett]

Just a note about G+, aren't hangouts limited to ten (10) people? See
https://support.google.com/plus/answer/1215273?hl=en-GB&ref_topic=1257349 -
it mentions "with up to 9 people".

On Friday, 29 March 2013, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:

> Petr
>
> If you need some help admining things im more than happy to help. I have
> an idea of how this VoIP stuff works.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Petr Mladek [mailto:pmla...@suse.cz ]
> Sent: 29 March 2013 13:22
> To: Florian Effenberger
> Cc: Jonathan Aquilina; 'Reisinger'; 'libreoffice-dev'; 'Libreoffice-qa';
> 'Bjoern Michaelsen'; 'Christian Lohmaier'; 
> bishop.robin...@gmail.com;
> 'Joren'
> Subject: Re: talkyoo issues
>
> Florian Effenberger píše v Pá 29. 03. 2013 v 11:55 +0100:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-03-29 11:48:
> > > Quick Google turned up this
> > > http://www.voipvoip.com/virtual-phone-number/germany.html  is this
> > > what we would want?
> >
> > no. As said on IRC: "You can receive 2 concurrent calls with your
> > international virtual phone number"
> >
> > That doesn't work for us...
>
> Just for record. We are going to do some more testing with talkyoo the
> following week. It seems to be working for other teams, so there must be a
> problem how we used it in the QA call.
>
> IMHO, we should use normal phone to open the line. Also we should use
> normal phone in countries where the free phone number is available.
>
> BTW: I personally have newer had problems to open the line or join the
> call operated by talkyoo. Also the sound was always very good even when I
> used skype.
>
> I think that we just need to invest some effort into debugging the
> problems that others have. It is great that we got contact to Christian and
> Florian who have mor experience with it and could help.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Petr
>
>
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Jonathan Aquilina]

Petr 

If you need some help admining things im more than happy to help. I have an 
idea of how this VoIP stuff works.

-Original Message-
From: Petr Mladek [mailto:pmla...@suse.cz] 
Sent: 29 March 2013 13:22
To: Florian Effenberger
Cc: Jonathan Aquilina; 'Reisinger'; 'libreoffice-dev'; 'Libreoffice-qa'; 
'Bjoern Michaelsen'; 'Christian Lohmaier'; bishop.robin...@gmail.com; 'Joren'
Subject: Re: talkyoo issues

Florian Effenberger píše v Pá 29. 03. 2013 v 11:55 +0100:
> Hi,
> 
> Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-03-29 11:48:
> > Quick Google turned up this
> > http://www.voipvoip.com/virtual-phone-number/germany.html  is this 
> > what we would want?
> 
> no. As said on IRC: "You can receive 2 concurrent calls with your 
> international virtual phone number"
> 
> That doesn't work for us...

Just for record. We are going to do some more testing with talkyoo the 
following week. It seems to be working for other teams, so there must be a 
problem how we used it in the QA call.

IMHO, we should use normal phone to open the line. Also we should use normal 
phone in countries where the free phone number is available.

BTW: I personally have newer had problems to open the line or join the call 
operated by talkyoo. Also the sound was always very good even when I used skype.

I think that we just need to invest some effort into debugging the problems 
that others have. It is great that we got contact to Christian and Florian who 
have mor experience with it and could help.


Best Regards,
Petr


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Petr Mladek wrote on 2013-03-29 13:21:


Just for record. We are going to do some more testing with talkyoo the
following week. It seems to be working for other teams, so there must be
a problem how we used it in the QA call.


thanks - any feedback is welcome!
I know that there are issues from time to time with foreign dialin 
numbers, but my impression from the board calls is that it got much better.



IMHO, we should use normal phone to open the line. Also we should use
normal phone in countries where the free phone number is available.


Yes, a regular phone is definitely recommended. If you need to use 
Skype, best is to use SkypeOut rather than the regular Skype contact, 
but avoiding Skype at all is the best choice, of course.



I think that we just need to invest some effort into debugging the
problems that others have. It is great that we got contact to Christian
and Florian who have mor experience with it and could help.


You're welcome - any feedback I get is highly appreciated. My problem is 
that I cannot reproduce the issues when dialing in, so I need more 
details to file a ticket with talkyoo.


Florian
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Petr Mladek]

Florian Effenberger píše v Pá 29. 03. 2013 v 11:55 +0100:
> Hi,
> 
> Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-03-29 11:48:
> > Quick Google turned up this
> > http://www.voipvoip.com/virtual-phone-number/germany.html  is this what we
> > would want?
> 
> no. As said on IRC: "You can receive 2 concurrent calls with your 
> international virtual phone number"
> 
> That doesn't work for us...

Just for record. We are going to do some more testing with talkyoo the
following week. It seems to be working for other teams, so there must be
a problem how we used it in the QA call.

IMHO, we should use normal phone to open the line. Also we should use
normal phone in countries where the free phone number is available.

BTW: I personally have newer had problems to open the line or join the
call operated by talkyoo. Also the sound was always very good even when
I used skype.

I think that we just need to invest some effort into debugging the
problems that others have. It is great that we got contact to Christian
and Florian who have mor experience with it and could help.


Best Regards,
Petr

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Florian Reisinger]

IMHO great idea (Dreaming of a G+ QA page). IMHO it has several benefits
and two downsides:
(I don't caref about those to be honest, but many others do...)
- No way to join over phone (better: telephone function of the phone.
Possible with G+ apps)
- Google+ Account needed...

I would volunteer to setup a G+ page. ;)

@Joel: Your opinion??

btw: Unofficial list of considered alternatives can be found here (In fact
it is my personal list):
http://flosmind.wordpress.com/2013/03/23/sorry-for-no-updates/ (Bottom)

Liebe Grüße, / Yours,
Florian Reisinger

Am 29.03.2013 um 11:43 schrieb Dan Lewis :

On 03/29/2013 06:18 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

No, unfortunately not - we cannot get SIP routing for these numbers, and if
we were to buy numbers in foreign countries, it would cost a few hundred if
not thousand EUR per month...


Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-03-28 23:47:

I have a suggestion. Would it be possible to have another VoIP server

such as asterisk using the same numbers as a backup in case talkyoo has

issues?


Has anyone considered Google Hangout which is a part of Google Plus?
Would this work?

--Dan
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-03-29 11:48:

Quick Google turned up this
http://www.voipvoip.com/virtual-phone-number/germany.html  is this what we
would want?


no. As said on IRC: "You can receive 2 concurrent calls with your 
international virtual phone number"


That doesn't work for us...

Florian
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Jonathan Aquilina]

Quick Google turned up this
http://www.voipvoip.com/virtual-phone-number/germany.html is this what we
would want? 

-Original Message-
From: Florian Effenberger [mailto:flo...@documentfoundation.org] 
Sent: 29 March 2013 11:39
To: Jonathan Aquilina
Cc: 'Reisinger'; 'Bjoern Michaelsen'; 'Joren'; 'libreoffice-dev';
'Libreoffice-qa'; 'Petr Mladek'; 'Christian Lohmaier';
bishop.robin...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: talkyoo issues

Hi,

Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-03-29 11:35:
> If they don't provide sip connectivity how does their current setup 
> work, they have to have some sort of sip trunk provider that they are
using.
>
> Florian I'll talk to you on irc at some point about this.

they surely use SIP, but they do not open it up for third parties. In other
words: There is no way to connect e.g. a TDF-Asterisk-box to talkyoo via
SIP. They do not offer that, they only provide phone connectivity to the
outside world.

Florian

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-03-29 11:43:

I'll need to do some research there has to be a way though for someone like
the TDF which a non-profit organization to obtain toll free numbers


I seriously doubt that. We would nee dial-in numbers in 20, 30, 40 or 
even more countries, and nobody provides that for free. Our current 
talkyoo package would cost a few hunderd EUR per month if we had to pay 
for it.


However, I'm happy to be proven wrong. :)

Florian
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Jonathan Aquilina]

I'll need to do some research there has to be a way though for someone like
the TDF which a non-profit organization to obtain toll free numbers

-Original Message-
From: Florian Effenberger [mailto:flo...@documentfoundation.org] 
Sent: 29 March 2013 11:39
To: Jonathan Aquilina
Cc: 'Reisinger'; 'Bjoern Michaelsen'; 'Joren'; 'libreoffice-dev';
'Libreoffice-qa'; 'Petr Mladek'; 'Christian Lohmaier';
bishop.robin...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: talkyoo issues

Hi,

Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-03-29 11:35:
> If they don't provide sip connectivity how does their current setup 
> work, they have to have some sort of sip trunk provider that they are
using.
>
> Florian I'll talk to you on irc at some point about this.

they surely use SIP, but they do not open it up for third parties. In other
words: There is no way to connect e.g. a TDF-Asterisk-box to talkyoo via
SIP. They do not offer that, they only provide phone connectivity to the
outside world.

Florian

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Dan Lewis]

On 03/29/2013 06:18 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote:
No, unfortunately not - we cannot get SIP routing for these numbers, 
and if we were to buy numbers in foreign countries, it would cost a 
few hundred if not thousand EUR per month...


Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-03-28 23:47:

I have a suggestion. Would it be possible to have another VoIP server
such as asterisk using the same numbers as a backup in case talkyoo has
issues?

 Has anyone considered Google Hangout which is a part of Google 
Plus? Would this work?


--Dan
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-03-29 11:35:

If they don't provide sip connectivity how does their current setup work,
they have to have some sort of sip trunk provider that they are using.

Florian I'll talk to you on irc at some point about this.


they surely use SIP, but they do not open it up for third parties. In 
other words: There is no way to connect e.g. a TDF-Asterisk-box to 
talkyoo via SIP. They do not offer that, they only provide phone 
connectivity to the outside world.


Florian
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Jonathan Aquilina]

If they don't provide sip connectivity how does their current setup work,
they have to have some sort of sip trunk provider that they are using.

Florian I'll talk to you on irc at some point about this.

-Original Message-
From: Florian Effenberger [mailto:flo...@documentfoundation.org] 
Sent: 29 March 2013 11:32
To: Jonathan Aquilina
Cc: 'Reisinger'; 'Bjoern Michaelsen'; 'Joren'; 'libreoffice-dev';
'Libreoffice-qa'; 'Petr Mladek'; 'Christian Lohmaier';
bishop.robin...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: talkyoo issues

Hi,

Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-03-29 11:29:
> If they are willing to contribute to open source, does it mean we have 
> no way to use these toll free numbers and use talkyoo as a sip trunk 
> provider none the less

sorry, what? I don't get your question.
talkyoo does not provide SIP connectivity, I already asked them a few months
ago.

Florian

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-03-29 11:29:

If they are willing to contribute to open source, does it mean we have no
way to use these toll free numbers and use talkyoo as a sip trunk provider
none the less


sorry, what? I don't get your question.
talkyoo does not provide SIP connectivity, I already asked them a few 
months ago.


Florian
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Jonathan Aquilina]

If they are willing to contribute to open source, does it mean we have no
way to use these toll free numbers and use talkyoo as a sip trunk provider
none the less


-Original Message-
From: Florian Effenberger [mailto:flo...@documentfoundation.org] 
Sent: 29 March 2013 11:19
To: Jonathan Aquilina
Cc: Reisinger; Bjoern Michaelsen; Joren; libreoffice-dev; Libreoffice-qa;
Petr Mladek; Christian Lohmaier; bishop.robin...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: talkyoo issues

No, unfortunately not - we cannot get SIP routing for these numbers, and if
we were to buy numbers in foreign countries, it would cost a few hundred if
not thousand EUR per month...

Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-03-28 23:47:
> I have a suggestion. Would it be possible to have another VoIP server 
> such as asterisk using the same numbers as a backup in case talkyoo 
> has issues?
>

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Robinson Tryon wrote on 2013-03-28 20:52:


Hmm. Looks like I should add a clearer warning about Skype on the
Talkyoo wiki page. I really like the idea of people being able to
connect to our meetings using their computer (especially as it might
be cheaper/easier for them to connect via the Internet than use a
phone), so I'll continue my investigations into
improvements/alternatives.


that's been a longstanding wish - the problem, however, is that all 
solutions I found so far mean that we have to decide to either use 
computers to connect, or phone. Mixing both is not possible. Reason is 
that we would have to buy dial-in numbers in foreign countries on our 
own, which is extremeley expensive.


Probably we can do some Asterisk/Freeswitch gateway, i.e. we offer a SIP 
server that dials to talkyoo via PTSN and mix both channels, but I'm not 
sure if that is trivial.


About Skype, the problem is at least that they only have 10 lines for 
all talkyoo users together, so it's kind of unsure whether the dial-in 
works at all. Plus, it seems to have audio issues from time to time, so 
it should really be some sort of last resort.



Many of us had an issue during the last QA call on March 22nd at 13:00
UTC, but we think that there were mitigating circumstances. Joel may
be able to give you other instances in which Talkyoo didn't work for
us. I'll try to grab Joel, Joren and perhaps a couple others sometime
in the next few days and do a quick 5 minute test of the system.


That'd be great. I talked with talkyoo about those issues months ago, 
and they told me they need date, time, and involved phone providers to 
determine the cause of the problems. So if I have these, I am happy to 
forward the information to talkyoo.


Sadly, the German dialin seems to work like a charm, I never have any 
problems, which makes it hard for me to debug. :/


Florian
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Florian Effenberger]

No, unfortunately not - we cannot get SIP routing for these numbers, and 
if we were to buy numbers in foreign countries, it would cost a few 
hundred if not thousand EUR per month...


Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-03-28 23:47:

I have a suggestion. Would it be possible to have another VoIP server
such as asterisk using the same numbers as a backup in case talkyoo has
issues?


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Jonathan Aquilina]

I have a suggestion. Would it be possible to have another VoIP server such
as asterisk using the same numbers as a backup in case talkyoo has issues?
On Mar 28, 2013 7:35 PM, "Florian Effenberger" <
flo...@documentfoundation.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Christian kindly forwarded me the e-mail about talkyoo. Sorry to hear
> there have been issues.
>
> In general, using Skype is *not* recommended. It *will* cause problems, it
> *is* a pain, so be warned. ;-)
>
> However, phone should work. Those of you who had problems, can you please
> e-mail me date, time, and your phone provider plus the dial-in number you
> used, so I could file a ticket with talkyoo? I assume it's some routing
> issues to certain phone providers, but I need to investigate that...
>
> Thanks a lot,
> Florian
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Robinson Tryon]

(dropping libreoffice-dev from cc)

On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Florian Effenberger
 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Christian kindly forwarded me the e-mail about talkyoo. Sorry to hear there
> have been issues.
>
> In general, using Skype is *not* recommended. It *will* cause problems, it
> *is* a pain, so be warned. ;-)

Hmm. Looks like I should add a clearer warning about Skype on the
Talkyoo wiki page. I really like the idea of people being able to
connect to our meetings using their computer (especially as it might
be cheaper/easier for them to connect via the Internet than use a
phone), so I'll continue my investigations into
improvements/alternatives.

> However, phone should work. Those of you who had problems, can you please
> e-mail me date, time, and your phone provider plus the dial-in number you
> used, so I could file a ticket with talkyoo? I assume it's some routing
> issues to certain phone providers, but I need to investigate that...

Many of us had an issue during the last QA call on March 22nd at 13:00
UTC, but we think that there were mitigating circumstances. Joel may
be able to give you other instances in which Talkyoo didn't work for
us. I'll try to grab Joel, Joren and perhaps a couple others sometime
in the next few days and do a quick 5 minute test of the system.

Cheers,
--R
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[Libreoffice-qa] talkyoo issues

[Florian Effenberger]

Hi,

Christian kindly forwarded me the e-mail about talkyoo. Sorry to hear 
there have been issues.


In general, using Skype is *not* recommended. It *will* cause problems, 
it *is* a pain, so be warned. ;-)


However, phone should work. Those of you who had problems, can you 
please e-mail me date, time, and your phone provider plus the dial-in 
number you used, so I could file a ticket with talkyoo? I assume it's 
some routing issues to certain phone providers, but I need to 
investigate that...


Thanks a lot,
Florian
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