Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ownCloud for Bugzilla - IMHO a no go
Hi, Robinson Tryon wrote on 2013-12-04 09:49: Hmm...looks like you weren't in cc here -- here's my email :-) yep. :-) Somehow the QA list is configured to do reply-to mangling, it seems, plus overwriting the reply to all. It's hard to know how big a problem this is because the filesize limit on bugzilla is absolute, and there's no integrated documentation telling people to upload large files elsewhere...so some number of people undoubtedly give up. Looking at ownCloud, at the sheer number of directories, it seems it happens more often, so maybe raising the average limit helps - didn't look in detail, though. IIRC, Rainer set up the wiki page to host files that wouldn't fit in Bugzilla. I can't recall if the logs indicated that anyone else used the wiki for this purpose, if documentation was made available, etc. I assume things have - totally understandable - grown that way. Looking now at the SQL issues we are experiencing, databases growing beyond any sane limit and so on, it's clear to me that we need to invest more time in finding proper tools. :-) For the wiki, I knew it was used that way, when I now read ownCloud, I felt the need to jump in... My strong proposal is therefore to raise the attachment limit in our own BugZilla instance when it's ready. By that, files are in the same tool, tied to the same user accounts, and therefore also in the same backup. Sounds great to me. I would suggest we have some kind of fallback plan, even if it's File too big to upload? Please see if you can shrink it in size or compress it before upload. If all else fails, please email us at bugzilla-attachment-assista...@bugs.libreoffice.org. There will always be corner cases, and it might be worth our time to keep an eye on them. I don't know if this can be hacked into BugZilla, but setting up an e-mail alias as shared IMAP (or forwarder, though I prefer the IMAP approach) is no big deal. We are ready on our side to make the migration: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Bugzilla/LibreOffice_Bugzilla_Proposal Cloph passed along word from Tollef that he hopes to get the first half done til the weekend, but also mentioned that [Tollef] is extremely busy and the migration is still in the planning phase. Cool, glad we're making progress. Otherwise, everyone is busy before Christmas. :-) I'd suggest that we add the File too big to upload? message to FDO right now, were it not for the fact that such a request would take more time away from Tollef. Indeed... So...I don't have a great answer. I guess I'd say punt and hope that we get some traction on migration this month. Given that all proposals I had seem to have drawbacks, my take is: Let's raise the attachment size limit in our bugzilla instance then, and add the note to the mail address. If that does not work either, we can look for another tool. Sounds good? Florian ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ownCloud for Bugzilla - IMHO a no go
Hi, On Wed, Dec 04, 2013 at 03:40:13AM -0500, Robinson Tryon wrote: Sounds great to me. I would suggest we have some kind of fallback plan, even if it's File too big to upload? Please see if you can shrink it in size or compress it before upload. If all else fails, please email us at bugzilla-attachment-assista...@bugs.libreoffice.org. There will always be corner cases, and it might be worth our time to keep an eye on them. Most people have free webbased email these days and those have a limit on the attachment size often too (around 8-10MB). just saying. Best, Bjoern ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ownCloud for Bugzilla - IMHO a no go
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:27 AM, bjoern bjoern.michael...@canonical.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 04, 2013 at 03:40:13AM -0500, Robinson Tryon wrote: Sounds great to me. I would suggest we have some kind of fallback plan, even if it's File too big to upload? Please see if you can shrink it in size or compress it before upload. If all else fails, please email us at bugzilla-attachment-assista...@bugs.libreoffice.org. There will always be corner cases, and it might be worth our time to keep an eye on them. Most people have free webbased email these days and those have a limit on the attachment size often too (around 8-10MB). My thinking was that the email address would be for upload assistance, not for direct delivery of the attachments to us -- we could tweak the wording to make that clearer :-) Cheers, --R ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ownCloud for Bugzilla - IMHO a no go
Hi, Robinson Tryon wrote on 2013-12-05 10:24: Tweaking the attachment dialog (and in particular the error message when one tries to upload a file bigger than the set limit) should be straightforward once we have our bugzilla code living in a git repo...which probably will happen around the same time bugzilla is migrated to TDF infra. wonderful! :-) but setting up an e-mail alias as shared IMAP (or forwarder, though I prefer the IMAP approach) is no big deal. Cool. We can talk particulars in the future... Ok. Given that all proposals I had seem to have drawbacks, my take is: Let's raise the attachment size limit in our bugzilla instance then, and add the note to the mail address. If that does not work either, we can look for another tool. Sounds good? +1 from my side. I'll make a note of this on the Migration page. I am _really_ happy we're on the same page here! :) Florian ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ownCloud for Bugzilla - IMHO a no go
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 1:16 PM, bjoern bjoern.michael...@canonical.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 03, 2013 at 05:48:54PM +0100, Thorsten Behrens wrote: Idly wondering - are we fixing the right problem? How often does the case arise, what's the size distribution of those huge files, and is it really necessary to store those eternally? So _if_ this happens once in eternity, the wiki should be fine. If this happens regularly we should look into it more deeply. It's hard to know how big a problem this is because the filesize limit on bugzilla is absolute, and there's no integrated documentation telling people to upload large files elsewhere...so some number of people undoubtedly give up. I honestly rather assume the first to be the case, given that there are 6000 files on the wiki and skimming the biggest files(*) shows some (maybe 10?) testcases uploaded there, but most of the big files are actually other stuff (e.g. talkyoo mp3). Also, there are only about 250 files bigger than the current bugzilla limit (3MB) at all. IIRC, Rainer set up the wiki page to host files that wouldn't fit in Bugzilla. I can't recall if the logs indicated that anyone else used the wiki for this purpose, if documentation was made available, etc. I do remember a couple of instances in which we couldn't upload files to Bugzilla due to size, and I have talked to users or seen comments in bug reports File too big to upload to bugzilla so this isn't just a theoretical problem anymore. On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 7:23 AM, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote: My strong proposal is therefore to raise the attachment limit in our own BugZilla instance when it's ready. By that, files are in the same tool, tied to the same user accounts, and therefore also in the same backup. Sounds great to me. I would suggest we have some kind of fallback plan, even if it's File too big to upload? Please see if you can shrink it in size or compress it before upload. If all else fails, please email us at bugzilla-attachment-assista...@bugs.libreoffice.org. There will always be corner cases, and it might be worth our time to keep an eye on them. On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 7:23 AM, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote: My strong proposal is therefore to raise the attachment limit in our own BugZilla instance when it's ready. By that, files are in the same tool, tied to the same user accounts, and therefore also in the same backup. I don't now how long the BugZilla migration will take. If it's just a short period of time, we can stay with ownCloud _TEMPORARILY_ and for a _LIMITED_ amount of time, and then directly host things at BugZilla. Only if it will take too long, options #3-#6 look worthwhile to me. We are ready on our side to make the migration: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Bugzilla/LibreOffice_Bugzilla_Proposal Cloph passed along word from Tollef that he hopes to get the first half done til the weekend, but also mentioned that [Tollef] is extremely busy and the migration is still in the planning phase. I'd suggest that we add the File too big to upload? message to FDO right now, were it not for the fact that such a request would take more time away from Tollef. So...I don't have a great answer. I guess I'd say punt and hope that we get some traction on migration this month. Best, --R ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ownCloud for Bugzilla - IMHO a no go
Hi, bjoern wrote on 2013-12-03 14:57: That is ouf course intended in the end. But up until then the Wiki is still a better choice than ownCloud as most people already have accounts there. yes, _UNTIL THEN_, the wiki is better, as I don't have to manually approve accounts there. Emphasizing the until then part so heavily, so it's clear to everyone. ;-) And no matter to which value we will raise the limit in the new Bugzilla, there always will be freaky corner cases that might need more space. As essentially everything in bugzilla is there for eternity, we shouldnt raise the limit too high. So in the end, we need some form of storage anyway. Exactly that is the reason why the wiki is not the best solution in the long run either. Anything there is also for eternity, the database grows, we need larger backup storages - it is kind of a domino effect, unneeded for simply file storage. We share the same pain here. ;-) As the wiki has a rather high limit (25MB) and it should be possible to delete stuff again from there (right?), it doesnt look too bad a fallback to me for No, not totally, some database entries are always there in the end, so deleting is not the right word. :) So _if_ we are using a solution that kinda sucks, we should use _one_ (wiki) and not two (wiki and ownCloud). Yes, I agree, as long as it is temporarily. Yes, account creation makes all these a stillborn. For it is easier to tell the reporter to upload to his dropbox/UbuntuOne/Whatever and us to pick it up from there. I am of course happy with that as well, just as I am with other proposals. My only requirement is that uploading (not downloading) must be authenticated to avoid abuse, and that this authentication must be encrypted, which effectively rules out FTP. Towards anything else, I am open, of course. IMHO no. The wiki was used before for this, so lets not throw in another tool into the mix -- so lets roll back on ownCloud usage for this, and _stay_ with the wiki. Not because its the right solution, but because we introduced that already and we dont have anything better right now. Aka: lets not stack one temporary bandaid storage on top of another temporary bandaid storage. Lets stick with the first temporary bandaid (wiki). I agree. IMHO, the best solution we could hope for is something helping us like this - to let the enduser upload the file in question to the Dropbox-equivalent of his choice I agree so far. - then have a TDF service where our QA guys can throw an URL at (via email, webinterface, ssh login) - this service then downloads the file and saves it for us on our mirror Is that really required? It requires some development time (and everybody knows I lack those skills :-) - if it's temporarily anyways, why not just grabbing the file from Dropbox co.? Oh, and welcome to the world of http://www.xkcd.com/1172/ ;) :D Florian (confused that reply-to-all on this lists does not include the original sender... so if you reply, Cc me manually) ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ownCloud for Bugzilla - IMHO a no go
Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: IMHO, the best solution we could hope for is something helping us like this - to let the enduser upload the file in question to the Dropbox-equivalent of his choice - then have a TDF service where our QA guys can throw an URL at (via email, webinterface, ssh login) - this service then downloads the file and saves it for us on our mirror Idly wondering - are we fixing the right problem? How often does the case arise, what's the size distribution of those huge files, and is it really necessary to store those eternally? Cheers, -- Thorsten signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] ownCloud for Bugzilla - IMHO a no go
Hi, On Tue, Dec 03, 2013 at 05:48:54PM +0100, Thorsten Behrens wrote: Idly wondering - are we fixing the right problem? How often does the case arise, what's the size distribution of those huge files, and is it really necessary to store those eternally? So _if_ this happens once in eternity, the wiki should be fine. If this happens regularly we should look into it more deeply. I honestly rather assume the first to be the case, given that there are 6000 files on the wiki and skimming the biggest files(*) shows some (maybe 10?) testcases uploaded there, but most of the big files are actually other stuff (e.g. talkyoo mp3). Also, there are only about 250 files bigger than the current bugzilla limit (3MB) at all. OTOH Flo noted that we could use more breathing space the with the SQL server ressources. But yeah, looking at the files suggests the big file uploads are very exceptional and rare and should have little impact on wiki operation. So if we are running into ressource trouble there, its not because of or related to the bug attachments, but because of 'general wiki usage'. So unless we want to kill the wiki (I assume not), its just the price we gotta pay, I guess. Best, Bjoern (*) https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/index.php?title=Special:ListFilessort=img_sizelimit=100asc=desc=1ilsearch=user= ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
