[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 91820] Reorganization of the menu bar for Calc
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91820 --- Comment #29 from kompilainenn <79045_79...@mail.ru> --- discussion interface changes likely not conducted. no publications on this topic was not. then developers just in a hurry. IMHO should publish the proposed changes at least in TDF blog to see the reaction of users -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 91820] Reorganization of the menu bar for Calc
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91820 --- Comment #28 from Joel Madero --- > First of all it's not just Jay to blame, rather all members of the design > team. And of course we published a lot in advance. But anyway I think you > wanted to positively suggest a slow down. Are you sure that users accept > minor changes but with every update? And does it really make sense to do a > job half way? I mean moving a few menu items around confuses much more if > there is not concept in the end. +1 - probably part of the reason why I said "Jay" instead of "Design team" is just that I see his commits largely coming through to do these mass tinkerings. Good to know that it was discussed (due to the lack of time to read . . . 5 sets of minutes per week I apologize for the oversight). I'm not sure of anything other than what I said. I know that when I've suggested changes to UX/UI I get a push back of basically "the status quo is valuable absent absolute proof that the change will be for the better for the user" - with toolbar I rarely see that. I see talks about philosophical "best place to put it" but little talk of "how long have users been using it this way with this placement and are they going to be confused by the changes" and then "is their confusion worth the minor gains that are to be had by constant movement based on some philosophical logic." This reminds me a lot about how Microsoft forced the Ribbon on people (huge change in one release) - although of course it's now been largely adopted by MSO user base, there was *harsh* criticism in the earlier years about forcing such mass changes on users who were entirely comfortable with the status quo. If the idea is "it's best to make them swallow the huge pill up front, hope they don't choke, and then they'll get used to it" is the mentality - then I suppose it might work. I also know that for me personally (speaking entirely for myself), I've stopped using dailies for my day to day work because my workflow was so entirely interrupted. Because of this, I won't be able to report bugs against daily as often...again I know I'm just one voice, and I'm not the "doer" so - take my opinion or leave it, either way I'll understand :) > On the other hand if you have an individually configured toolbar you > wouldn't see any changes. So a solution for both issues could be to have a > confirmation dialog for UI changes. When an update is applied the user is > asked whether or not he or she wants to apply those changes. > > >I'm not interested (nor do I have time) to spend hours debating over the > >merits. > > Acknowledged. We will take your opinion into consideration anyway. Thanks :) I understand that the "doers" decide - the most I can hope for as a user is simply to consider "my" (although I suspect this may be a criticism that you'll all have to address when a stable release comes out with these dramatic changes) opinion. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 91820] Reorganization of the menu bar for Calc
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91820 --- Comment #27 from Heiko Tietze --- (In reply to Joel Madero from comment #25) > 1) Status quo has some value - even if maybe some kind of logic would say > move things - thus a balanced approach would be nice; > > 2) Gradual changes over longer periods of times can leave users with less > interruptions to their workflow than mass changes First of all it's not just Jay to blame, rather all members of the design team. And of course we published a lot in advance. But anyway I think you wanted to positively suggest a slow down. Are you sure that users accept minor changes but with every update? And does it really make sense to do a job half way? I mean moving a few menu items around confuses much more if there is not concept in the end. On the other hand if you have an individually configured toolbar you wouldn't see any changes. So a solution for both issues could be to have a confirmation dialog for UI changes. When an update is applied the user is asked whether or not he or she wants to apply those changes. >I'm not interested (nor do I have time) to spend hours debating over the >merits. Acknowledged. We will take your opinion into consideration anyway. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 91820] Reorganization of the menu bar for Calc
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91820 --- Comment #26 from m.a.riosv --- Hi Joel, I can only agree with you. May be questions like this one help to reduce some of our disagreements on the QA process? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 96473] Data -> Pivot Table -> Insert (No option to insert)
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96473 --- Comment #3 from Joel Madero --- Thanks for that bug # - I commented over there. As I said over there, I don't have the energy, time, interest in debating endlessly about these massive changes to UI/UX/Design so I put my thoughts over there and the team can take those thoughts or leave them. What I can say is that as an anecdotal point, for someone who does in fact use LibreOffice daily for real work - and who uses Spreadsheets often for real tasks - the mass changes have left me entirely confused so I'm using an older version instead of doing work on dailies where I could potentially be finding bugs and reporting them...I just can't have these massive interruptions to my workflows due to complete reworks of toolbars/context menus/ and top menus again just anecdotal experience, the doers as always get to decide, just giving my input as a user of the product. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 96473] Data -> Pivot Table -> Insert (No option to insert)
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96473 Joel Madero changed: What|Removed |Added Severity|major |enhancement -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 91820] Reorganization of the menu bar for Calc
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91820 Joel Madero changed: What|Removed |Added CC||jmadero@gmail.com --- Comment #25 from Joel Madero --- As someone who frequently uses Spreadsheets I find the current organization to be a *dramatic* change with little to gain and lots of confusion. I've found myself annoyed often looking through the new menus and trying to figure out where things were moved. There is *some* value in the status quo and this approach of "logic trumps all" and *no weight* given to the status quo (i.e., where things are because people are used to that) is problematic. To me I've been somewhat shocked at how these changes occur with almost no consensus (basically jay pushing a ton of changes that he finds to be logical) and they happen *in mass* so instead of gradual changes it's dramatic shifts that can *significantly harm* workflows. Furthermore, I've been surprised that when I suggest a change that seems to be logical I *do* get the "status quo is valuable in and of itself minus PROOF that there are gains from change" but then with toolbar changes it's kind of just a mass change and a "users can deal with it" mentality. Proof is not defined as "this makes sense on some philosophical level" - it means real gainsas in were users confused about where these things were before? Were people actively complaining? Was there some harm being done by the status quo? An example of this bug 96299 where there was push back on changing default behavior for cross-references basically because there is no proof of a gain and the status quo is valuable in and of itself. I'm not interested (nor do I have time) to spend hours debating over the merits. My points can be summarized as followed: 1) Status quo has some value - even if maybe some kind of logic would say move things - thus a balanced approach would be nice; 2) Gradual changes over longer periods of times can leave users with less interruptions to their workflow than mass changes -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 96473] Data -> Pivot Table -> Insert (No option to insert)
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96473 --- Comment #2 from Maxim Monastirsky --- This was discussed previously in Bug 91820. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 96473] Data -> Pivot Table -> Insert (No option to insert)
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96473 Maxim Monastirsky changed: What|Removed |Added CC||rstr...@globo.com --- Comment #1 from Maxim Monastirsky --- *** Bug 96552 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 94448] UI: Draw’s context menu lacks Text option
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94448 Katarina Behrens (CIB) changed: What|Removed |Added CC||armin.le.gr...@me.com --- Comment #12 from Katarina Behrens (CIB) --- *** Bug 96478 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
