[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 115512] Remove titlebar from UI in case of Gnome

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115512

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|needsUXEval |
 CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |
   |.freedesktop.org|

--- Comment #15 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Let's remove needsUX since opinions have been made. Some pro some cons, low
priority. The more people CC on a ticket the higher we prioritize it. And 6 is
not so many.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 115512] Remove titlebar from UI in case of Gnome

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115512

--- Comment #14 from Jean-Baptiste Faure  ---
(In reply to Percy from comment #13)
> Not yet solved? please consider to hide the title bar for Gnome-based
> systems, title bar takes up space that could be better used.

There is nothing to solve there, because there is no bug. Only a request for a
change that is not an improvement, from my point of view.

Best regards. JBF

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 115512] Remove titlebar from UI in case of Gnome

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115512

--- Comment #13 from Percy  ---
Not yet solved? please consider to hide the title bar for Gnome-based systems,
title bar takes up space that could be better used.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 115512] Remove titlebar from UI in case of Gnome

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115512

--- Comment #12 from V Stuart Foote  ---
Just a simple No!

If it can't be done cross-platform it does not belong in the LibreOffice core.
Show me the devs with commitment to work on macOS and Windows this and other
native CSD schemes for those builds.

Crickets 

IMHO => WF

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 115512] Remove titlebar from UI in case of Gnome

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115512

--- Comment #11 from Ariel  ---
++ on comment #10
To add: none of the keyboard shortcuts have to go. Further, the menus could
stay, hidden until the user presses Alt, like VSCode and many other apps offer.
Further, with CSD, a sidebar could be possible as an alternative or in addition
to a better use of the top window decoration (like Tilix / VScode and other
modern apps offer)

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 115512] Remove titlebar from UI in case of Gnome

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115512

--- Comment #10 from andreas_k  ---
Gnome is a good and nice desktop environmental and gtk a beautiful toolkit. But
- we don't have gnome icons cause there is no designer draw it. We use there
elementary icons which is ok.
- csd would be nice that's the reason for this bug. But I agree it has massive
open ui questions.
- libreoffice is not gnome only. As long as libo is no gnome app only it has to
be always a compromise.
- nb is optional and was done for or win users cause someone was willing to
make it.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 115512] Remove titlebar from UI in case of Gnome

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115512

--- Comment #9 from cranetester  ---
What if you don't want to use the ribbon? Most users hate it because it
requires way too much mousework. It would mean an unconventional and arguably
inferior user experience for most people.

Also the ribbon is nowhere to be found in the Gnome design guidelines. It's a
not feature that GTK provides out of the box. So the ribbon will actually make
the program fit more poorly into the Gnome desktop than it does now.

And finally, the no-tilebar feature will be solely for Gnome, at it well never
look or function the same as a real headerbar.

Given all that, spending time on developing this particular feature does not
seem wise. What's the benefit? I see only downsides.

If the goal is to integrate with the Gnome desktop, Libre Office could work
with Gnome to develop a CSD library that would allow non-GTK programs to use
real GTK headerbars. It should also work with them to finally create a
*standard* and native replacement for menubars. This would be another library. 

At the moment, the Gnome design team doesn't even provide any sort of UI model
that could replace menubars. So if Gnome wants apps like LO to replace the
tried and tested features, it is Gnome's responsibility to explain how that
might be done. One idea might be a large command pallete with widgets for
various actions and a search interface.


The responsibility for desktop integration should be shared between app
developers and the desktop maintainers. If Gnome pushes a new design then it
should also help developers adopt it. Otherwise, just stick to the traditional
design.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 115512] Remove titlebar from UI in case of Gnome

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115512

--- Comment #8 from Ariel  ---
+1 on this request. Now that notebookbar is no longer experimental, this is the
only other key UI element (IMHO) that is making LO look dated in the modern
GNOME desktop. Really looking forward to this

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 115512] Remove titlebar from UI in case of Gnome

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115512

Thomas Lendo  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||103303, 113209


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=103303
[Bug 103303] [META] Desktop integration bugs and enhancements
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113209
[Bug 113209] [META] UI bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 115512] Remove titlebar from UI in case of Gnome

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115512

andreas_k  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||kain...@gmail.com

--- Comment #7 from andreas_k  ---
I like the idea to put the window controls into the notebookbar but not in the
regular toolbar layout.

Is it possible to add a show/hide window decoration button like we have it for
menubar, sidebar, ...

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 115512] Remove titlebar from UI in case of Gnome

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115512

--- Comment #6 from Tobias Bernard  ---
Created attachment 139867
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=139867=edit
rough concept of LibreOffice with macOS-style CSD

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 115512] Remove titlebar from UI in case of Gnome

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115512

--- Comment #5 from Tobias Bernard  ---
Hi, Tobias from GNOME here.

CSD are most useful when they allow placing window controls and other interface
elements in the same bar. That's the approach we take with GNOME apps. We have
a widget in GTK called header bar, which automatically places window controls
on the left/right side depending on system settings, so application authors
don't have to deal with this.

I think when the Notebookbar is enabled, LibreOffice could relatively easily
use GNOME-style CSD, by simply adding the window controls to the left/right of
the top bar. This approach could also work on macOS and Windows (in fact, MS
Office on macOS already does something very similar). One challenge is assuring
that there is always some empty space to the left or right of the Notebookbar
tabs, so users can move the window easily.

I've attached some very rough concepts of how the CSD solution I'm describing
could look on GNOME and macOS. I imagine this would be easily adaptable to the
style on other systems (e.g. by having three buttons on the right on Windows).

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 115512] Remove titlebar from UI in case of Gnome

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115512

--- Comment #4 from Tobias Bernard  ---
Created attachment 139866
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=139866=edit
rough concept of LibreOffice with GNOME-style CSD

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 115512] Remove titlebar from UI in case of Gnome

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115512

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu

--- Comment #3 from V Stuart Foote  ---
@Heiko, *

Why would we treat GNOME based DE any different than other requests (e.g. bug
113388) for Client Side Decoration control of the application frame? Or
likewise not support native application styles from Apple HIG for macOS builds,
or implement Windows UWP support.

If consensus remains that project is cross platform, implementing CSD piecemeal
for your favorite OS/DE (unless actually required--and this isn't) breaks that
paradigm.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 115512] Remove titlebar from UI in case of Gnome

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115512

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 115512] Remove titlebar from UI in case of Gnome

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115512

--- Comment #2 from Bastián Díaz  ---
Created attachment 139671
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=139671=edit
screenshot

I think Mozilla Firefox offers a better solution by providing white space at
the beginning and end of the tabs (when the window is not maximized), in
addition to useful white space like the one on each side of the address bar.

On the other hand, a small bar is a bad idea, since it is a difficult target to
hold with a pointer and even more if we talk about touch devices. GNOME HIG for
example recommends not using small targets. GTK Headerbar allows you to drag
the window from anywhere -including buttons- and other office applications
allow you to drag the window of any blank space available in the toolbar.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 115512] Remove titlebar from UI in case of Gnome

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115512

Maxim Monastirsky  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11
   ||3388

--- Comment #1 from Maxim Monastirsky  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #0)
> We
> should a) consider to hide the title bar for Gnome-based OS and b) add
> instead a small bar to make sure the user can move the window. This approach
> is known for instance in Chrome.
Chrome isn't a good example, as in addition it also does c) make use of the
free space on that dragging frame (by putting there the tabs bar and the user
switching button). And so should we, if we ever decide to hide the system title
bar. Just replacing the system title bar (which we get for free from the
system), with our own implementation (which we'll have to maintain) makes no
sense.

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