[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98333] Bringing uniformity to styles shortcuts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98333

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |WONTFIX

--- Comment #20 from Heiko Tietze  ---
We discussed the topic in the design meeting. The discussion hasn't progressed
so far and is quite controversial. Users are familiar with the existing
shortcuts and may see any change as a regression. So the conclusion is to
resolve this request as WF. At least as long bug 123768 is not done.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98333] Bringing uniformity to styles shortcuts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98333

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

  Component|Writer  |LibreOffice

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98333] Bringing uniformity to styles shortcuts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98333

--- Comment #19 from Cor Nouws  ---
why Writer, Heiko?
see comment #0

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98333] Bringing uniformity to styles shortcuts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98333

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

  Component|LibreOffice |Writer

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98333] Bringing uniformity to styles shortcuts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98333

--- Comment #16 from Heiko Tietze  ---
From the W7 HIG:

* Use function keys for commands that have a small-scale effect, such as
commands that apply to the selected object. For example, F2 renames the
selected item.
* Use Ctrl key combinations for commands that have a large-scale effect, such
as commands that apply to an entire document. For example, Ctrl+S saves the
current document.
* Use Shift key combinations for commands that extend or complement the actions
of the standard shortcut key. For example, the Alt+Tab shortcut key cycles
through open primary windows, whereas Alt+Shift+Tab cycles in the reverse
order. Similarly, F1 displays Help, whereas Shift+F1 display context-sensitive
Help.
* Don’t use the following characters for shortcut keys: @ £ $ {} [] \ ~ | ^ ' <
>. These characters require different key combinations across languages or are
locale specific.
* Don’t use Ctrl+Alt combinations, because Windows interprets this combination
in some language versions as an AltGR key, which generates alphanumeric
characters.


Not sure if we have to adopt this guideline.

Personally I'm always afraid of using ctrl/alt modifiers together with function
keys because of switching to another terminal. And I can hardly imagine that
any three-finger salute is really used in the wild. We should consider to drop
those shortcuts - or reserve it for the least important functions. In other
words the more important a function is or the more frequently it is being used
the less modifiers it has to use.

Ctrl + F11 - Styles & Formatting (Changes to F11 make sense only when we also
free the other single functions keys. So this would makes it necessary to use
Ctrl+F5 for Navigator and Ctrl+F4 for Data Source.)
Ctrl + Shift + F11 - Set focus to combobox (.uno:ActivateStyleApply)


Ctrl + Alt + F11 - New Style
Ctrl + Alt + Shift + F11 - Update Style


To add another argument: We have Ctrl+1..9 to set some style directly, so why
not use Ctrl+0 (or ^) instead of F11? I know it breaks all familiarization...

And last but not least about transition: We need a better customization
regarding toolbar/sidebar setup anyway. We could (or rather should) add
shortcuts. And since the idea is to have an option to switch between different
layouts it could be possible to activate either the old LibO4 shortcut layout
or anything else.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98333] Bringing uniformity to styles shortcuts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98333

--- Comment #14 from Yousuf (Jay) Philips  ---
(In reply to Eike Rathke from comment #11)
> Shift+Ctrl+Anything requires two hands to hit. Using that for something
> basic and outstanding as the Stylist or Navigator is an un-usability.

We have many common shortcut that require two hands to hit that are even more
basic than stylist or navigator, e.g. Ctrl + P (Print), Ctrl + O (Open), Ctrl +
N (New). On Mac, users have to use two hands to hit any of the Function keys,
as they have to press the Fn key as well.

> Additionally, both features are something that other office suites don't
> offer and that help to organize the document and its formatting, 

MS Office has both a stylist
(http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/images/stylesFPane2010.gif) and navigator
(http://www.dkszone.net/editing-in-ms-word-2010-simplified-with), though not as
powerful/extensive as the one found in LO. Both of these tools are useful for
those who utilize them.

> users of
> some other suite don't even know styles or the possibilities the Navigator
> offers. Easy accessibility is a key to promote these further.

Particular users of all office suites dont know/use styles and having a stylist
in LO wont change that behaviour. There are users who use styles (normally more
advanced users) and users who dont use styles (normally less advanced users)
and that wont ever change unless direct formatting is completely eliminated. In
the same way, we have users who may use the Navigator (advanced users) and
users who likely wont (non-advanced users).

We should make the stylist and navigator available to those who use it, but we
should avoid assigning them to shortcut keys that are an OS standard for
something else in order to improve LO integrate with those OSes and reduce the
learning curve for users. Imagine what users would say if we has assigned Ctrl
+ Z to anything else but undo.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98333] Bringing uniformity to styles shortcuts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98333

--- Comment #17 from Yousuf (Jay) Philips  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #16)
> * Don’t use the following characters for shortcut keys: @ £ $ {} [] \ ~ | ^
> ' < >. These characters require different key combinations across languages
> or are locale specific.

I guess this is where Mac differs from Windows, as its HIG utilizes { | } and
iWork utilizes [ ] < > '.

> Ctrl + F11 - Styles & Formatting (Changes to F11 make sense only when we
> also free the other single functions keys. So this would makes it necessary
> to use Ctrl+F5 for Navigator and Ctrl+F4 for Data Source.)

Not possible to use Ctrl+F4 as that is a reserved shortcut to close the
application.

> 
> Ctrl + Alt + F11 - New Style

You are correct that this wouldnt work on Linux.

> Ctrl + Alt + Shift + F11 - Update Style
> 

These two would likely need shortcuts not involving F11

> To add another argument: We have Ctrl+1..9 to set some style directly, so
> why not use Ctrl+0 (or ^) instead of F11? I know it breaks all
> familiarization...

Ctrl + 0 is taken by the 'Text body' paragraph style in Writer and Ctrl + Shift
+ 6 is taken in Calc for a number format.

> And last but not least about transition: We need a better customization
> regarding toolbar/sidebar setup anyway. We could (or rather should) add
> shortcuts.

Sidebar shortcuts discussion is here (bug 84502).

> And since the idea is to have an option to switch between
> different layouts it could be possible to activate either the old LibO4
> shortcut layout or anything else.

This has been implemented in Calc, but isnt available in other apps.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98333] Bringing uniformity to styles shortcuts

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98333

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists
   ||.freedesktop.org
  Component|LibreOffice |ux-advise

--- Comment #12 from V Stuart Foote  ---
To UX-advise to resolve merit of doing this consolidation.

https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/23201/

Sorry Eike, understand the appeal of maintaining status quo, but the Short-cut
consolidation really is long overdue.

F4 for Data Sources, F5 for Navigator, and F11 all as single key short-cuts
assigned to launch Styles & Formatting dialogs predate implementation of GUI
Sidebar offering single button widget activation. 

Shifting these shortcuts to be multi-key entry using assignments for KEY_MOD1,
KEY_MOD2, SHIFT presents few true short-term hardships but has advantage of
allowing us to reduce collisions with OS reserved keys or HIG recommendations.

We've already gutted most menu structure and accelerator assignments--IMHO this
is just a continuation of the process.  Painful in the transitional phase, but
freeing the UI implementation for a better and more consistent UX.

Key to getting the transition done and accepted by users is to make it
consistent and to not drag it out over multiple releases. And to follow-up in
documentation, both the built-in/online help and in Wiki topical pages.

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