Re: purism why does fsf and libreboot embrace a misleading company?
On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 20:10:09 +0100, a via libreplanet-discuss wrote: > This post is directed at officials from libreplanet > and fsf. > > I wrote this post on trisquel's forum. > https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVoYkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ Would you mind pasting the text of your message on this list? I get this when I visit the site, and I do not intend to enable JS: JavaScript is required for Such PrivateBin to work. Sorry for the inconvenience. Pasting will also allow people to quote inline and respond to specific points. -- Mike Gerwitz Free Software Hacker+Activist | GNU Maintainer & Volunteer GPG: D6E9 B930 028A 6C38 F43B 2388 FEF6 3574 5E6F 6D05 https://mikegerwitz.com signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: purism why does fsf and libreboot embrace a misleading company?
> If I understand correctly... > > First, you criticise Purism for saying that soon they would be supported > by the FSF. > Then, you criticise the FSF for having supported Purism soon after that. > > What's wrong?? I am criticizing purism for fraudulent behavior. I say purism is using fsf in purism's deceptions. The major question is why fsf has let it take place? > PS: Why don't you copy-paste that text in your message? > > > > The link makes my post more compact. And a link is easier to share. pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: purism why does fsf and libreboot embrace a misleading company?
My post is about getting official comments from libreplanet and fsf. Of course anybody can reply, but I already know how people attempt to defend purism's behavior. On 3/11/20 8:48 PM, Aaron Wolf wrote: > If I understand you correctly, you believe: Purism marketing talks about > software freedom and the goal of RYF 100% free hardware, but they don't > deliver to that level, and they minimize or hide the details. You worry > that people buy Purism products believing they are getting more complete > freedom than they actually receive. You doubt Purism's good faith, and > because you feel FSF should be skeptical rather than gracious about > these concerns, FSF is making a mistake by giving Purism a platform or > acknowledgment (at least without some explicit qualifiers from FSF about > these concerns). Is that right? Correct. > > I agree with you that marketing claims should not mislead people about > the facts of products. Stating a goal of reaching some standard is not > the same as already being there, and the difference should be plain and > transparent. Correct. > > I don't find your jump to speculating about bad faith at all warranted. > There's no evidence that FSF is corrupted in any way around this. And > there's inadequate (though perhaps non-zero) evidence that Purism has > any bad faith. https://trisquel.info/en/forum/librem13-fully-free-time educate yourself. About purism they claimed about their notebooks that there was a real possibility that intel would publish the software in question. Everybody in the field know, intel does not publish such pieces of source software. purism claimed reverse engineering was an option. The software in question is signed. Name a cryptographer who will agree, that breaking the cryptography is an option? As I said, one email to libreboot would have been enough. Also after people told purism that their claims were unfounded, purism did not rectify their websites. It is swindle if you deceive people in order to gain money. About fsf. fsf is known to be strict and harsh in matters of free software. It is a mystery why fsf has acted that amateurishly about purism. That is why I ask, has fsf received money or hardware from purism? Are there people who at the same time represent both fsf and purism? > In general, you're more likely to learn and also to get others to listen > when you express concerns from a position of genuine curiosity without > hints of accusations and other attacks. You do realize I have stated arguments? You have not. A pattern I have noticed from other defenders of purism. fsf has been informed by me and maybe others, how purism has acted. It makes fsf an accessory in purism's fraud. fsf failure on this matter results in loss of credibility among those who are able to look behind purism's deceptions. > > It can also help to try to create a *strong-man* argument. Generate the > strongest argument you can for a defense of Purism and FSF, and then see > if that holds up to scrutiny. That's much more insightful than > generating weak or straw-man arguments or speculative suspicions. Start rebut my arguments. pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: purism why does fsf and libreboot embrace a misleading company?
In my opinion moving in one step from all closed source to all open source freedom respecting is very hard or practically impossible. I am happy people are doing steps towards all open source and no hidden stuff. One valid step is modern hardware running open source Operating System out of the box. Another valid step is adding open source freedom respecting bios (i.e. libreboot) to that. Another valid step is ... Let us not forget the goal and keep doing steps. Small or big. All is welcome for the benefit of mankind. Cheers, Héctor Espinoza El mié., 11 de mar. de 2020, 17:11, Lori Nagel via libreplanet-discuss <[1]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> escribió: I'm not really sure how Purism is any worse than companies like Think Penguin, or than the machines are any less freedom respecting than anything else that can run a FSF endorsed distro and coreboot. Even some new system76 machines are running coreboot now from what I understand. I understand it is hard to find hardware that gets a RYF certification because of some stuff with intel, but I understand this is not necessarily an issue with every chip, just most desktops and laptops. (with the exception of some old ones such as the refurbished ThinkPads like the t400) On Wednesday, March 11, 2020, 3:12:10 PM EDT, a via libreplanet-discuss <[2]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> wrote: This post is directed at officials from libreplanet and fsf. I wrote this post on trisquel's forum. [1][3]https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN 74cVVo YkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [2][4]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [3][5]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-dis cuss References 1. [6]https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74c VVoYkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ 2. mailto:[7]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 3. [8]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discus s ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [9]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [10]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discu ss References 1. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 2. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 3. https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVo 4. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 5. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss 6. https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVoYkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ 7. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 8. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss 9. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 10. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: purism why does fsf and libreboot embrace a misleading company?
I'm not really sure how Purism is any worse than companies like Think Penguin, or than the machines are any less freedom respecting than anything else that can run a FSF endorsed distro and coreboot. Even some new system76 machines are running coreboot now from what I understand. I understand it is hard to find hardware that gets a RYF certification because of some stuff with intel, but I understand this is not necessarily an issue with every chip, just most desktops and laptops. (with the exception of some old ones such as the refurbished ThinkPads like the t400) On Wednesday, March 11, 2020, 3:12:10 PM EDT, a via libreplanet-discuss wrote: This post is directed at officials from libreplanet and fsf. I wrote this post on trisquel's forum. [1]https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVo YkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [2]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [3]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss References 1. https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVoYkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ 2. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 3. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: purism why does fsf and libreboot embrace a misleading company?
Hi "a", On Wed, 11 Mar 2020 20:10:09 +0100 a via libreplanet-discuss wrote: > This post is directed at officials from libreplanet > and fsf. > > I wrote this post on trisquel's forum. > https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVoYkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ If I understand correctly... First, you criticise Purism for saying that soon they would be supported by the FSF. Then, you criticise the FSF for having supported Purism soon after that. What's wrong?? PS: Why don't you copy-paste that text in your message? -- Félicien Pillot 2C7C ACC0 FBDB ADBA E7BC 50D9 043C D143 6C87 9372 felic...@gnu.org - felicien.pil...@riseup.net pgp4m4V01KHCK.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
purism why does fsf and libreboot embrace a misleading company?
This post is directed at officials from libreplanet and fsf. I wrote this post on trisquel's forum. https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVoYkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: LibrePlanet and DFD
On 11/03/2020 13:26, LM wrote: > The SFD (Software Freedom Day) group ( > http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo/sfd-discuss ) was discussing > planning Document Freedom Day. Similar to the LibrePlanet conference, > they've run into some issues and were considering moving their meeting > online. However, it doesn't sound like they have the organizational > resources of the FSF. Does the FSF have enough speakers for > LibrePlanet 2020? Is there any chance of reaching out to the SFD > group and seeing if it would be possible to include part of DFD in the > LibrePlanet 2020 conference? Might enhance both events if the groups > could combine forces. > > ___ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss > I can't speak for the fsf here, but having the DFD and other conferences online sounds a really good idea, in fact for me, that makes it easier. There is very little around Devon / Cornwall UK. I run the local tech jam but that isn't really big enough. is this the dfd website ? https://www.documentfreedom.org/ As the website still shows 2018 as the date, I know the fsf are using all free tools for the actual talks, perhaps for dfd etc it would be possible to: * Set up a website using WriteFreely * Pre-record videos / talks and upload to say you own peertube instance * Schedule the videos to appear at set times. * Set up IRC so that we can have a q/a in the main channel (say #docfreedomday) after the talk then channels set up for each talk for further discussion. Link to decentralized social media, for example Mastodon so that talks can be federated as I think writefreely federates to Mastodon properly using Activity pub. https://writefreely.org/ https://joinpeertube.org/ Not sure if this helps. I do think it would be a good idea to try and share expertise, I don't think sharing free software, is an issue as such, it seems, the issue is finding, enough expertise make everything work without relying on the same people all the time. Paul -- Paul Sutton https://personaljournal.ca/paulsutton/ gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893 1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
US to UK(Gb) Time difference and irc
Hi Am I right in thinking that the timings listed on the FSF website are US eastern time ? So that a start time of 10am equates to +5 to the Uk which would make it 5pm (17:00hrs). I will be online and in #libreplanet anyway, so happy to help out and hopefully learn how to do this properly over time. Paul -- Paul Sutton https://personaljournal.ca/paulsutton/ gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893 1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
LibrePlanet and DFD
The SFD (Software Freedom Day) group ( http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo/sfd-discuss ) was discussing planning Document Freedom Day. Similar to the LibrePlanet conference, they've run into some issues and were considering moving their meeting online. However, it doesn't sound like they have the organizational resources of the FSF. Does the FSF have enough speakers for LibrePlanet 2020? Is there any chance of reaching out to the SFD group and seeing if it would be possible to include part of DFD in the LibrePlanet 2020 conference? Might enhance both events if the groups could combine forces. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
