Re: Free Software Logo
On 10/29/20 11:22 PM, mray wrote: > Feel free to distribute the logo if you think it makes sense. It's not > like anybody can keep you from doing that ;) … I would really appreciate it if you email us (webmast...@gnu.org) with URL of the image and license of it. This way a ticket will be created. I can make a ticket myself but it would be awesome if you do this. -- Ali Reza Hayati / alirezahayati.com PGP: 6ACD 8BF4 4109 E852 96B7 2F20 6118 CCE2 1080 D0E2 OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Free Software Logo
On 29.10.20 16:54, Ali Reza Hayati wrote: >> I would be very wary of tying anything this important to a single free >> software project or group. > > Hey. It's ARH from GNU webmastering team. > > You can send us an email message to webmast...@gnu.org and we'll discuss > it. We may can make it available for public with a proper license to be > used for software libre projects and related matters. > > I should also mention that GNU project is dedicated to public benefit > and we don't claim ownership nor do control anything but the GNU project > itself. > > We wouldn't keep that logo to ourselves as GNU project. We are dedicated > to software libre movement, not any individual or company/trademark. > > Thanks. > Feel free to distribute the logo if you think it makes sense. It's not like anybody can keep you from doing that ;) … ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: youtube-dl DMCA takedown on GitHub is risk for all GNU/Linux distributions
On 10/29/20 9:23 PM, Denver Gingerich wrote: > Agreed. Or even better, services run by non-profit charities. > > As an example, youtube-dl has received offers from non-profit charities to > host their repository, issues tracker, etc. I hope that youtube-dl will take > them up on their offer. These non-profit charities can fight DMCA notices > (or similar notices in other countries) to take down youtube-dl and won't > just cave to RIAA pressure like big companies such as GitHub/Microsoft will. youtube-dl is now hosted by Codeberg (Germany) and I believe many other services that are mirroring it. Needless to mention PyPi. > Yes, but the RIAA and others can sue the developers in their home country > too. One youtube-dl developer was threatened in this way in their home > country of Germany (and the RIAA specifically mentioned a German case in > their takedown notice, presumably to threaten the current lead developer of > youtube-dl). So we need to take a more holistic approach to solving this. It is correct but the service may be able to not comply with the order based on the laws. I've asked Codeberg about it and they said they have to comply with an order from a court in Germany. If RIAA wants to take down youtube-dl from COdeberg, they probably will start by filling a complaint to a court in Germany. They probably will get what they want but this won't end youtube-dl's life anyway. > That would be nice to have, but is only a first step. Per above there are a > lot of other solutions we can and should pursue. Agreed. -- Ali Reza Hayati / alirezahayati.com PGP: 6ACD 8BF4 4109 E852 96B7 2F20 6118 CCE2 1080 D0E2 OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Free Software Logo
On 10/29/20 4:06 AM, mray wrote: On 29.10.20 00:00, Pedro Lucas Porcellis wrote: I'm letting you know that there is now a Free Software Logo ready to use for everybody wanting to have a sign that says "Free Software" Interesting... How did you come up with that design? After trying to come up with approaches that directly relate to the 4 freedoms I ultimately had to give in to abstraction. There just wasn't enough room for that complexity in an iconic symbol. Despite the needed simplicity I tried to come up with something new that deals with self-similarity and the process of emergence, where one part originates from another, but retains the roots of its origin. I was immediately impressed with the logo. I do hope it is widely adopted. It inspired me to create a derivative graphic emphasizing the virtuous cycle of using Free Software in the context of the power of copyleft. http://runeman.org/freesoftwarelogo.html (done using Inkscape, the image is also released as CC-0 (public domain declaration). ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: youtube-dl DMCA takedown on GitHub is risk for all GNU/Linux distributions
On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 08:00:33PM +0300, Jean Louis wrote: > * Ali Reza Hayati [2020-10-29 19:33]: > > First step would be moving from corporate-backed services to services > > that are run by companies that value human beings/people instead of > > money. Money is important but the first priority should be people. Agreed. Or even better, services run by non-profit charities. As an example, youtube-dl has received offers from non-profit charities to host their repository, issues tracker, etc. I hope that youtube-dl will take them up on their offer. These non-profit charities can fight DMCA notices (or similar notices in other countries) to take down youtube-dl and won't just cave to RIAA pressure like big companies such as GitHub/Microsoft will. > > These service should be libre and also out of the U.S. for now as U.S. > > laws are currently very stupid and discriminatory. > > Exactly that. > > There is already so much hosting space for free software on its > mirrors, but if mirror is engaged by the order of US organization, US > court can give order that US organization shut it down, even if it is > in other country. Yes, but the RIAA and others can sue the developers in their home country too. One youtube-dl developer was threatened in this way in their home country of Germany (and the RIAA specifically mentioned a German case in their takedown notice, presumably to threaten the current lead developer of youtube-dl). So we need to take a more holistic approach to solving this. > Libreplanet shall make the page with list of free software hosting > providers that are inside of US jurisdiction and those outside of US > jurisdiction. That is how to counter the DMCA notices and safety of > software. That would be nice to have, but is only a first step. Per above there are a lot of other solutions we can and should pursue. Denver https://jmp.chat/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: youtube-dl DMCA takedown on GitHub is risk for all GNU/Linux distributions
Much of this, as you said, is the problem of unjust laws that are affecting software. For example, my country, Iran, is under U.S. sanctions. As a result, GitHub and GitLab are blocking us and banning our accounts. For every service based in United States, no matter what's the use, there's a chance for us Iranians to be blocked. We can't pay for even small services such as a VPS or a hosting. My website is currently hosted by a guy in Germany for free because I can't pay anyone for hosting. I really do want to host my own Mastodon or Pixelfed or Peertube instances but no, I can't because of sanctions and these sanctions are stupid because they don't affect the government but affects us people. I can't think of any way that me buying a hosting service can violate U.S. or world's laws over nuclear weapons. Another example is about me myself again. I've been trying to convince some collectives to run an EteSync instance, a software libre that uses end-to-end encryption to sync contacts and calendars, because I can't pay to get an account on etesync.com and nobody will pay $24 a year for a dude nobody knows. These are some of the problems only in the matter of economy in software that we're facing because of unjust laws. As long as we have discrimination and injustices like this, we remain in same situation, sadly. On 10/29/20 8:30 PM, Jean Louis wrote: > > Exactly that. > > There is already so much hosting space for free software on its > mirrors, but if mirror is engaged by the order of US organization, US > court can give order that US organization shut it down, even if it is > in other country. > > Gitlab have shutdown Iranian developers for US imposed sanctions. That > is unjust just as it is unjust in Iran to forbid encryption. > > Libreplanet shall make the page with list of free software hosting > providers that are inside of US jurisdiction and those outside of US > jurisdiction. That is how to counter the DMCA notices and safety of > software. > > There shall be a libreplanet page disadvising people to run any > non-free software such as Javascript when hosting free software. > > In general people shall be made aware how dangerous is running > non-free Javascript. This statement may be too strict for many. I am > not saying that it is dangerous to run some trivial Javascript today, > I am saying that if we do not do anything about that, imposing and > forcing people to run any kind of software on their computers will > become even more reality. It affects future and present time. > > This is very serious issue. Why Github does not comply to liberate > Javascript? They do not want to comply to liberate their Javascript > not because of the current Javascript but because of the opportunities > they are getting in the future. > > Then there shall be page on libreplanet on how to avoid potential > threats with the DMCA. But Libreplanet being itself in the USA has to > ensure its legalities on how to speak about it. > -- Ali Reza Hayati / alirezahayati.com PGP: 6ACD 8BF4 4109 E852 96B7 2F20 6118 CCE2 1080 D0E2 OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Free Software Logo
I really like this logo. It has the simple elegance you need when the scale of the image is going to vary. Thank you very much for this! -mnw On Thu, Oct 29, 2020, at 11:26 AM, Aaron Wolf wrote: On 2020-10-29 9:22 a.m., Jean Louis wrote: > * Aaron Wolf <[1]wolft...@riseup.net> [2020-10-29 19:00]: >> >> On 2020-10-29 8:40 a.m., Jean Louis wrote: >> >>> Did you see other logos on GNU website? That is what I meant. And >>> there is no such thing as control of "free software logos" in the >>> context of trademarks, GNU and free software dedicated groups do not >>> follow trademark doctrines. Open source groups do. >>> >> >> GNU and free software *do* follow Trademark law. See e.g. >> [2]https://www.gnu.org/graphics/agnuhead.html >> >> "The GNU head is, however, also a trademark for the GNU Project. If you >> want to use the GNU head to link to a website run by the Free Software >> Foundation or the GNU project, feel free, or if you're using it in >> contexts talking about GNU in a supportive and accurate way, you can >> also do this without permission. For any other requests, please ask >> <[3]licens...@fsf.org> for permission first." > > Of course I know that. That is slightly beyond the point that I have > mentioned and tried to clarify. There is way how would FSF and GNU go > about the trademark violation and there is way how Mozilla or Rust > would go about trademark violations. > > FSF and GNU would most probably do no legal action against > perpetrator, RMS would give few public remarks if GNU software would > be used with proprietary software. Though I do not believe there would > be court process, threats or similar. It would be in the spirit of > friendship and friendly kind of ensuring observance. > > Legal option would be really the last. > > I am not representative for GNU. This is my opinion based on last 20 > years of observation. > I don't think it has happened that proprietary software ever claimed to be GNU, but if that happened, the GNU project *would* take legal action if they couldn't first get voluntary compliance. The FSF is not opposed to legal enforcement of trademarks and copyrights (copylefts in this case). ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [4]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [5]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss References 1. mailto:wolft...@riseup.net 2. https://www.gnu.org/graphics/agnuhead.html 3. mailto:licens...@fsf.org 4. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 5. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: youtube-dl DMCA takedown on GitHub is risk for all GNU/Linux distributions
I agree with you, Jean. This is a major concern about software distribution. The reason behind this is, pardon me, dumb. If we go by this reason, we should take down the whole internet and even modern technology just because people may misuse it. It's just in case that we consider downloading public media, a misuse. Good news is that because of this specific takedown, public attention is now gained and we may be able to do something about it. First step would be moving from corporate-backed services to services that are run by companies that value human beings/people instead of money. Money is important but the first priority should be people. These service should be libre and also out of the U.S. for now as U.S. laws are currently very stupid and discriminatory. On 10/29/20 7:47 PM, Jean Louis wrote: > Even yesterday I was thinking to write to this list as the youtube-dl > DMCA takedown on GitHub is more serious than many would think. > > youtube-dl is already in many GNU/Linux distributions: > https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=youtube-dl&searchon=names&suite=stable§ion=all > > Now I notice you have the comment on that on your website: > https://alirezahayati.com/2020/10/24/riaa-took-down-youtube-dl-repository-on-github/ > >> This is what we get when we centralize everything. Git is more than >> GitHub and also it was designed to be decentralized. GitHub is >> owned by Microsoft, a corporation that values benefit much more than >> people. > >> I’m even not sure if the takedown was legal as it’s not the software >> that does anything but it’s people’s use that may be considered >> illegal. Last night I was talking about this on IRC with some people >> and everybody were unhappy about the situation. > > I agree on that. > > The real danger much greater than currently perceivd. > > It is the potential risk to all GNU/Linux distributions that > distribute this package including to those who are outside of the US > jurisdiction where DMCA does not apply. And what about other similar > packages? > > If the DMCA does not apply to the host serving software in other > country, it may well apply to Google that is US company, or Bing, that > is US company, or other search engine and they may need to comply to > take down any search engine results pointing to software not compliant > to DMCA. > > That would mean that whole servers of GNU/Linux and other OS > distributions could be blocked of appearing in the search engines and > if they would be located in the US, could be ordered to stop > distributing specific software. This can negatively impact users. > > This implies that whole DVD distributions containin one affected > software such as let us say Trisquel GNU/Linux-libre could be forced > to stop distributing the DVD and remove the software (if they have it > inside). This could impact users so much. > > Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre has similar software hypervideo, I do not > know how much of youtube-dl is inside, but it could be risky there > too. > > And the DMCA takedown on that software may be igniter for other > companies to start taking down various other software. > > There are websites that prevent me reading the article by using any > common browser. If I use lynx or wget I can get the article to be > read. If I change my User-Agent string to pretend to be specific > search engine I can read articles that are not meant to be read if I > would have Javascript turned on. Maybe wget and other simple tools > could become future target as we as users are circumventing the > technology to get the information without being authorized. > -- Ali Reza Hayati / alirezahayati.com PGP: 6ACD 8BF4 4109 E852 96B7 2F20 6118 CCE2 1080 D0E2 OpenPGP_0x6118CCE21080D0E2.asc Description: application/pgp-keys OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Free Software Logo
On 2020-10-29 9:22 a.m., Jean Louis wrote: > * Aaron Wolf [2020-10-29 19:00]: >> >> On 2020-10-29 8:40 a.m., Jean Louis wrote: >> >>> Did you see other logos on GNU website? That is what I meant. And >>> there is no such thing as control of "free software logos" in the >>> context of trademarks, GNU and free software dedicated groups do not >>> follow trademark doctrines. Open source groups do. >>> >> >> GNU and free software *do* follow Trademark law. See e.g. >> https://www.gnu.org/graphics/agnuhead.html >> >> "The GNU head is, however, also a trademark for the GNU Project. If you >> want to use the GNU head to link to a website run by the Free Software >> Foundation or the GNU project, feel free, or if you're using it in >> contexts talking about GNU in a supportive and accurate way, you can >> also do this without permission. For any other requests, please ask >> for permission first." > > Of course I know that. That is slightly beyond the point that I have > mentioned and tried to clarify. There is way how would FSF and GNU go > about the trademark violation and there is way how Mozilla or Rust > would go about trademark violations. > > FSF and GNU would most probably do no legal action against > perpetrator, RMS would give few public remarks if GNU software would > be used with proprietary software. Though I do not believe there would > be court process, threats or similar. It would be in the spirit of > friendship and friendly kind of ensuring observance. > > Legal option would be really the last. > > I am not representative for GNU. This is my opinion based on last 20 > years of observation. > I don't think it has happened that proprietary software ever claimed to be GNU, but if that happened, the GNU project *would* take legal action if they couldn't first get voluntary compliance. The FSF is not opposed to legal enforcement of trademarks and copyrights (copylefts in this case). ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Free Software Logo
On 2020-10-29 8:40 a.m., Jean Louis wrote: > Did you see other logos on GNU website? That is what I meant. And > there is no such thing as control of "free software logos" in the > context of trademarks, GNU and free software dedicated groups do not > follow trademark doctrines. Open source groups do. > GNU and free software *do* follow Trademark law. See e.g. https://www.gnu.org/graphics/agnuhead.html "The GNU head is, however, also a trademark for the GNU Project. If you want to use the GNU head to link to a website run by the Free Software Foundation or the GNU project, feel free, or if you're using it in contexts talking about GNU in a supportive and accurate way, you can also do this without permission. For any other requests, please ask for permission first." ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Free Software Logo
> I would be very wary of tying anything this important to a single free > software project or group. Hey. It's ARH from GNU webmastering team. You can send us an email message to webmast...@gnu.org and we'll discuss it. We may can make it available for public with a proper license to be used for software libre projects and related matters. I should also mention that GNU project is dedicated to public benefit and we don't claim ownership nor do control anything but the GNU project itself. We wouldn't keep that logo to ourselves as GNU project. We are dedicated to software libre movement, not any individual or company/trademark. Thanks. -- Ali Reza Hayati / alirezahayati.com PGP: 6ACD 8BF4 4109 E852 96B7 2F20 6118 CCE2 1080 D0E2 OpenPGP_0x6118CCE21080D0E2.asc Description: application/pgp-keys OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Free Software Logo
* Stephen Paul Weber [2020-10-29 18:15]: > > > https://free-software-logo.codeberg.page/ > > > > Alright. You may consider contributing it to GNU. > > I would be very wary of tying anything this important to a single free > software project or group. Did you see other logos on GNU website? That is what I meant. And there is no such thing as control of "free software logos" in the context of trademarks, GNU and free software dedicated groups do not follow trademark doctrines. Open source groups do. Making multiple logos is fine, making it any how is fine, enjoy the freedom. -- Jean Louis ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Free Software Logo
https://free-software-logo.codeberg.page/ Alright. You may consider contributing it to GNU. I would be very wary of tying anything this important to a single free software project or group. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Free Software Logo
https://free-software-logo.codeberg.page/ As someone who has been heavily promoting the Free Culture logo for some time, I am very interested to see development in this space! signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Free Software Logo
On 28/10/2020 22:48, mray wrote: Hi all, Short design related intermission: I'm letting you know that there is now a Free Software Logo ready to use for everybody wanting to have a sign that says "Free Software": https://free-software-logo.codeberg.page/ …no need to let "Open Source" take all the attention in that regard (Or Microsoft GitHub for that matter, as some people even use that logo in weird ways)… -mray ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss That looks neat, thanks Paul -- Paul Sutton, Cert ContSci (Open) https://personaljournal.ca/paulsutton/ OpenPGP : 4350 91C4 C8FB 681B 23A6 7944 8EA9 1B51 E27E 3D99 https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-sutton-5737171b8/ OpenPGP_0x8EA91B51E27E3D99.asc Description: application/pgp-keys OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Free Software Logo
* mray [2020-10-29 01:52]: > Hi all, > > Short design related intermission: > > I'm letting you know that there is now a Free Software Logo ready to use > for everybody wanting to have a sign that says "Free Software": > > https://free-software-logo.codeberg.page/ > > …no need to let "Open Source" take all the attention in that regard (Or > Microsoft GitHub for that matter, as some people even use that logo in > weird ways)… Alright. You may consider contributing it to GNU. We have also these logos: http://www.gnu.org/graphics/license-logos.html then badges: https://www.fsf.org/resources/badges Then GNU Art Gallery: http://www.gnu.org/graphics/graphics.html -- Jean Louis signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Free Software Logo
On 29.10.20 00:32, Aaron Wolf wrote: > It's like a lock that is in unlocked position? Maybe. I think you can see many things in it. That way to look at it relates to the logo Open Source a bit, but you could also spot the idea of a Copyleft 🄯 in it. None of that is intentional though. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Free Software Logo
On 29.10.20 00:00, Pedro Lucas Porcellis wrote: >> I'm letting you know that there is now a Free Software Logo ready to use >> for everybody wanting to have a sign that says "Free Software" > > Interesting... How did you come up with that design? > After trying to come up with approaches that directly relate to the 4 freedoms I ultimately had to give in to abstraction. There just wasn't enough room for that complexity in an iconic symbol. Despite the needed simplicity I tried to come up with something new that deals with self-similarity and the process of emergence, where one part originates from another, but retains the roots of its origin. It also needed to be something nice to look at. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
