re: What search engine best at "Freedom-Respecting"?
I found Duck Duck's results to be underwhelming, especially when doing things like looking for technical documents on a product - DDG would return umpteen places to BUY the product, but not manufacturer's websites, or manual pages, etc... I now use "Startpage" <https://www.startpage.com> which is based in the EU, so under the GDPR for whatever good that does... They claim that they don't log, monitor, or track searches or users. Supposedly what they do is pay Google to use their engine / database on an anonymous basis (all the requests to Google are marked as coming from Startpage, not you) and make their money by doing adds (that are clearly marked as adds) based strictly on the search terms used, which seems reasonable. I believe they also have some 'premium' extra cost services like VPN's, etc. They do have some sort of javascript that is reported by NoScript, but I'm not sure if it's proprietary or free... (I haven't checked) ART ---------- Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Quick Check on COVID Lockdowns (Yasuaki Kudo)
Here in Metro-Boston MA, US (FSF home town) there are a few places where masks are still required, most notably our transit system (buses and subways, etc.) and hospitals / medical facilities... I think they also require them in K-12 schools. Otherwise masks are optional and it seems most folks are not wearing them... Some are, but it definitely is a question of personal preference. Reportedly we are seeing a slight increase in the numbers of cases, but not an extreme problem level. The US CDC also recently started suggesting a second booster shot for some folks although it is a bit controversial, with many suggesting that it might be better to delay it until closer to the start of the next flu season. ART -- Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?
In this regard the FSF is not being a political organization as far as I can tell (I have no control over / don't speak for the FSF in any way other than being a supporting member) I haven't seen them make any statements regarding the Russia/Ukraine conflict (which has been going on for at least the past 8 years w/ little or no media attention until the last few months BTW) and don't really expect them to... If they did I'd, expect some sort of generalities about supporting the Ukrainians, but am not sure if they could do anything more than that... My comment is simply that by *MY* understanding of the GPL (and similar licenses) is that there is nothing in the terms that would ALLOW any efforts to limit the Russian access to Free Software. Copyleft is a two edged sword in this regard, it makes it easier for people we like to get software, but also means we can't take it away from those that we don't like... Even the few North Koreans that are allowed computers can use highly modified versions of GNU/Linux that have been set up to limit the ability to access the outside world... (I'm told the source is available but not many want it...) ART -- Arthur Torrey - --- > On 02/24/2022 12:57 PM gregor wrote: > > > hi all. here is what i feel. > > war is something, where banks win and people loose. i hoped FSF was not > a politically oriented organization. > > makes me sad, seeing how FSF rushes to be "politically correct" in the > world run by propaganda machines. > > agitprop is what i see, which is to say it obviouslly works. > > to make it clear, i am not the side of some country nor some army nor > some soldiers (poor souls, not to mention civilians), but on the side of > peace. once someone during a war takes side, he/she becomes a soldier. > > sad is what i am. > > yt > > g > > ps > > live by the sword die by the sword is what bible says > > On 24. 02. 22 18:43, Arthur Torrey wrote: > > Much as we might want to shut off the Russians, I don't think this is > > something that the GPL type licenses allow... This has come up time and > > time again in regards to limiting access to all sorts of other > > undesirables, and the bottom line is that as long as they are complying w/ > > the licenses (i.e. copylefting changes, etc.) they can't be cut off... > > > > An ironic / amusing question I remember being raised a while back: Is the > > question about if Free Software is used in a 'smart' weapon, (smart bomb > > guidance system, drone, etc.); and an intact device falls into the hands of > > the enemy, does that count as 'distribution' and entitle the enemy to > > demand the corresponding source code? > > > > ART > > > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:04:30 + > > From: Jacob Hrbek > > To: Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss > > > > Subject: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free > > Software? > > Message-ID: <25b59d57-597d-4ef4-9e93-2c067a1d8...@rixotstudio.cz> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > > > Today russian forces invaded ukraine and started an unprovoked war with > > free software being used across russia and in the government thus > > playing a major role in russia's war capabilities. > > > > Should we and can we take steps to prevent/reduce russia's access to our > > software? > > > > > > > > -- > > Arthur Torrey - > > --- > > > > ___ > > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?
Much as we might want to shut off the Russians, I don't think this is something that the GPL type licenses allow... This has come up time and time again in regards to limiting access to all sorts of other undesirables, and the bottom line is that as long as they are complying w/ the licenses (i.e. copylefting changes, etc.) they can't be cut off... An ironic / amusing question I remember being raised a while back: Is the question about if Free Software is used in a 'smart' weapon, (smart bomb guidance system, drone, etc.); and an intact device falls into the hands of the enemy, does that count as 'distribution' and entitle the enemy to demand the corresponding source code? ART Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:04:30 + From: Jacob Hrbek To: Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss Subject: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software? Message-ID: <25b59d57-597d-4ef4-9e93-2c067a1d8...@rixotstudio.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Today russian forces invaded ukraine and started an unprovoked war with free software being used across russia and in the government thus playing a major role in russia's war capabilities. Should we and can we take steps to prevent/reduce russia's access to our software? -- Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Free Hardware - my USD$0.02
ncepts apply to this sort of hardware just as much (if not more so) than any electronic stuff. 7. The FSF has recently started pushing the idea of the 'Freedom Ladder' w/ 100% proprietary software at one end and "RMS level" refusal to use anything non-Free at the other... A similar concept could easily be applied to hardware designs - how much info do they provide? It seems that this sort of gradient approach is not unreasonable and provides a path to urge manufacturers of goods to follow as far as they feel comfortable... ART -- Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
RE : Ideas to promote making and using free hardware designs (was Re: FSF continuously harms Free Hardware)
An excellent post by Paul Fernhout, but I see one really HUGE problem, namely that I don't know of ANY Free Software tool or tool-chain that can get a person from 'beer-mat' to 'g-code' (For those not familiar with the CNC world, g-code is the 'assembly language' of the CNC manufacturing world... I am a member of the Artisan's Asylum maker-space (formerly in Somerville, MA, temporarily shut down while moving to Allston) and would dearly love to be able to make the hardware that I can draw and design in LibreCAD (2D) or possibly FreeCAD, gCAD3D or some other Free Software 3D CAD package, but I have not been able to find any way to get from those packages to g-code that I can feed to our CNC machines. Instead I have to use Proprietary CAD packages (some of which have limited 'Free as in Beer' offerings) to make proprietary format files in order to generate (proprietary) tool-paths to feed to a (proprietary) pre-processor that turns them into machine appropriate g-code (Ironically, at least one of the machines I'm running that g-code on is using LinuxCNC as a controller). I haven't even found a path that would let me move a design from a Free CAD package into one of the proprietary packages to do the tool-path steps. For electronics stuff, KiCAD is amazingly good, I've heard professional board designers say that it can go head to head against the $10K / seat commercial programs. I haven't done anything in the 3D printing world, but I've heard there are some packages that are at least competent for that. However there is NOTHING I've been able to find that is capable of even basic CNC machining g-code, let alone anything close to modern High Speed Machining (as done by things like HSM-Works) As such, Paul's proposals for OSCOMAK and other shared collections of design data seem like they would be of little use if there is no way to get the collected data into a new design that can be manufactured I've been urging the FSF to put CAD onto the 'high priority' list for years, but so far no luck... ART -- Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Powerchair - was federated free software movement
I am not sure I understand what you mean by "references to functions of it". Also it is important to note that while most chairs use a common 'power-base' (which will vary by manufacturer / model, but functionally hardly varies) the seating and so on are very user specific and will vary based on medical needs, and the exact nature of the user's disability, as well as their physical size, etc. The 'core' electronics don't change however, just the 'user interface' hardware and associated software. However the electronics control system is really the only part that isn't effectively open in the sense of knowing how it works and being at least theoretically able to rebuild / replace it. (Sourcing an exact replacement might be an issue, but a different one) I think that in order to be an effective option any control system needs to be at least as flexible and 'universal' as the commercial systems. I have looked at the list of projects you pointed at, and while there are many cool creations on it, none really seem like they would be tremendously useful as a source of development. Probably the biggest issue is lack of scale. Where the descriptions gave power specs, most were on the order of 3-15VDC and 3A or less... A comercial power wheelchair power module runs on 24VDC and the best will provide drive power to two brushed DC motors at a current limited peak of up to 120A for a few seconds and 100A for longer, although the motors will draw far less most of the time. (Motors draw maximum current at stall, and minimal current running at speed, so rolling down the road takes far less power than lots of starting / stopping / turning) This puts them into the same class as the controllers used in the Discovery Channel "Robot Wars" heavy robots. (it is also in the range of output for some welding machines) This kind of serious power needs a lot of serious design chops... ART ------ Arthur Torrey - --- > On 12/01/2021 7:54 PM Jean Louis wrote: > > > * Arthur Torrey [2021-12-02 03:00]: > > I don't have much in the way of current photos, and don't see how > > they would help much since it basically would just be 'black box' > > electronic modules. > > In order to make free hardware power chairs provide clear references > to functions of it. While your description gives insights, it does not > explain functions. > > > I am a very active participant on the > > website, which is probably the top site in the world for people that > > hack on and do their own repairs of power chairs. One of the > > members there has created as close to an Open Source Hardware > > control system as we have. It is based on multiple Arduino Tinies > > and is a very complete system, but it STILL requires a proprietary > > Roboteq robotics controller, and a lot of very hairy scripting in > > Roboteq's proprietary BASIC language. The Roboteq controllers were > > chosen because they were the only ones he could find with the extra > > functionality for the Fail-safe / Safe-fail monitoring needed on a > > power chair (or any other 'life safety critical' device) It is also > > a factor that high power motor controllers are NOT simple, as a lot > > of the 'minor' things that get mostly ignored in basic electronics > > become major factors. Even so I'd love to attempt doing one of > > those setups, except for the estimated $1-2K cost... > > That is one step forward in understanding what you would need. > > Here is list of free hardware Robotics devices which I have not verified, > could be non-free as well: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_hardware_projects#Robotics > > Feel free to provide link to instructions of that wheel chair which > will tell about its functionality. > > > -- > Jean > > Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: > https://www.fsf.org/campaigns > > In support of Richard M. Stallman > https://stallmansupport.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Powerchair - was federated free software movement
My chair has been severely hacked on, and bears no close relationship to the original product - I've replaced the entire electrical system other than the motors, and made many other modifications to it. The current control system on it is a Penny & Giles (P) "Pilot +" which is technically obsolete and no longer manufactured, so parts are only available used. It has the advantage of being the easiest system to get into with the proprietary, MSW only programming software, as all it needs is a special cable that has been reverse engineered and is relatively easy to make. I don't have much in the way of current photos, and don't see how they would help much since it basically would just be 'black box' electronic modules. I did post a basic description of how almost all powerchairs work, and mine is very typical of a basic chair with no special seating functions. (I do have a project chair w/ fancier seating, but it is not much different. I am a very active participant on the website, which is probably the top site in the world for people that hack on and do their own repairs of power chairs. One of the members there has created as close to an Open Source Hardware control system as we have. It is based on multiple Arduino Tinies and is a very complete system, but it STILL requires a proprietary Roboteq robotics controller, and a lot of very hairy scripting in Roboteq's proprietary BASIC language. The Roboteq controllers were chosen because they were the only ones he could find with the extra functionality for the Fail-safe / Safe-fail monitoring needed on a power chair (or any other 'life safety critical' device) It is also a factor that high power motor controllers are NOT simple, as a lot of the 'minor' things that get mostly ignored in basic electronics become major factors. Even so I'd love to attempt doing one of those setups, except for the estimated $1-2K cost... ART ------ Arthur Torrey - --- > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 13:26:54 +0300 > From: Jean Louis > To: Paul Sutton > Cc: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > Subject: Re: federated free software movement > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > I have asked for the wheelchair pictures, functions, and did not get > it. > > I would like pictures, videos or link to the product, to understand > what are those functions. > > >From there on, it could be possible to work on free hardware. > > > > > Jean > > Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: > https://www.fsf.org/campaigns > > In support of Richard M. Stallman > https://stallmansupport.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: federated free software movement
It is a question of giving and getting mutual support - and also getting more people used to the idea of using Free Software tools and possibly contributing to them instead of making more proprietary stuff. The FSF has recently been pushing the concept of the 'Freedom Ladder' as a series of steps to help people move from the non-free world to the free one, or as far in that direction as they feel comfortable. I see a federated movement as part of the 'on-ramp' to the Freedom Ladder, and that one doesn't encourage folks to keep climbing it if unwilling to accept folks at whatever level they feel OK about it... (I see the Libreplanet list and similar as being at the upper rungs of the ladder BTW...) ART -- Arthur Torrey - --- > On 11/29/2021 5:00 PM Yuchen Pei wrote: > > > Arthur Torrey writes: > > > > > I never intended that we should promote non-free software / hardware > > on this Libre-planet list, only that we should be tolerant about it on > > whatever federation structures evolve. > > How does such tolerance help the free software movement? > > Best, > Yuchen > > -- > PGP Key: 47F9 D050 1E11 8879 9040 4941 2126 7E93 EF86 DFD0 > <https://ypei.me/assets/ypei-pubkey.txt> ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: federated free software movement
We seem to keep going round and round on this one... The original post on the topic was about a possible 'federated Free software movement' to include (among others) Free Software advocates, the right to repair folks and the open hardware community. Each of these groups has their own lists, websites, and other methods of communicating within their own circles, and sets their own expectations of what is and isn't OK within them I would expect any federated activity to be in SEPARATE lists, websites, etc. that are NOT part of the 'internal circles' of any of the groups, but are rather an intersection of them. What I am trying to say is that in those separate "federation" cooperative groups there needs to be a focus on the shared objective and willingness to accept that participants from other circles may not have all the same feelings about issues that are only tangentially related... Think of it as something like the various ecumenical religious associations that are intended to allow persons of differing faiths to work together towards common goals without fighting about details of doctrine... I never intended that we should promote non-free software / hardware on this Libre-planet list, only that we should be tolerant about it on whatever federation structures evolve. In terms of the power chair, the hardware outside of the electronics is pretty universal, in fact there are only a few companies that make much of it. The actual chair 'manufacturers' only really make the frames and a few other bits that they then attach outsourced parts to So basically you end up with two motors (almost always brushed DC gearmotors) for the main drive system, and optionally, one or more linear actuators for various seating functions. The electronics typically consist of a pair of high current PWM motor controllers that handle the tank-steer mixing of the drive motors, one or tw input module(s), usually just one, and a module to control any lights, actuators and other auxiliary functions. There may also be extra added functions for things like Bluetooth input to a computer / phone, environmental controls and so on, mostly only seen on very complex chairs for those with extreme disabilities. All the modules on a given chair must come from the same manufacturer and model family. They will be linked together using proprietary cables, and communicate using proprietary protocols, so it is not possible to just reverse engineer one of them, you have to do the entire system. There is also a lot of fail-safe / safe-fail engineering required to ensure that everything works properly. It is a seriously gnarly problem ART ------ Arthur Torrey - --- > On 11/27/2021 1:28 AM Jean Louis wrote: > > > * Arthur Torrey [2021-11-17 04:12]: > > 3. Reality check - You have a repair shop - customers come to you > > with hardware that needs fixing and needs proprietary tools to do > > so. Which benefits your business more - gritting your teeth and > > using the tools, or telling the customers they made a bad choice in > > hardware and sending them away??? > > That is matter of ethical attitude or viewpoint that hardware shop > owners have. > > You do not appear to have the same ethical viewpoint as me. So people > are different, but please do not push on this mailing list how people > shall be opportunistic for money and succumb to proprietary > software. It is really wrong list for such propaganda. > > There are companies that have ethical viewpoints and sell such > hardware that does not require proprietary software. > > LibrePlanet is all about free software. > > > 4. Personal reality - I mentioned earlier that I need a proprietary > > closed software program that only runs on a proprietary OS in order > > to adjust the programming on my power chair... I got a comment back > > that I should figure out how to do it w/ Free Software > > LibrePlanet is all about free software. That you have hardware and > software that does not give you freedom is already clear. > > How about presenting the power chair and how it looks like, that > people can see how it can be replaced or made with free software? > Start a project, ask for help, let us understand what exactly is the > hardware that you wish to run, so maybe interested parties find way to > provide similar hardware and software without proprietary chains. > > > So let me see, I have a proprietary undocumented piece of hardware > > that I need to totally reverse engineer from the hardware > > communications protocol to it's internal data structures, along w/ > > how to read and write to it (as a non-programmer) OR use an existing > > set of non-free tools that already does what I need? (and there is > > *NO* comme
Re: federated free software movement
A couple of points - 1. The original proposal was for an effort, presumably SEPARATE from LibrePlanet to make alliances IN THOSE AREAS WHERE OUR INTERESTS ALIGN with folks such as the OSHWA, and other open source hardware advocates, and the Right to Repair folks. I believe there is a good bit of overlap since it is easier to write software for open hardware, and there is potential to use Free Software tools to repair hardware, etc... I did not see anything in the original proposal to suggest that THIS LIST should endorse non-Free hardware / software, nor did I intend it in my posts on the subject. I do believe that any effort to make alliances with other communities needs to be tolerant of the needs and practices of those communities. The reality is that these communities use or do things with hardware that needs binary blobs or proprietary software. We are not going to make many friends if we come at them with an attitude that they are going to Software Hell for doing so... 2. Reality check - A lot of people build Open Source Hardware around the Raspi and similar boards that need binary blobs From their standpoint it's a good choice to do so, as it's a low cost, readily available board with plenty of documentation and support. Is it better to approach them with a demand that they start over with a different board that is blob free but offers no other benefits, or to thank them for making a project that is mostly free by our standards and suggest that they MIGHT want to look at a freer alternative for their next project, or even ask them how you can help open some other device to whatever degree is possible... 3. Reality check - You have a repair shop - customers come to you with hardware that needs fixing and needs proprietary tools to do so. Which benefits your business more - gritting your teeth and using the tools, or telling the customers they made a bad choice in hardware and sending them away??? 4. Personal reality - I mentioned earlier that I need a proprietary closed software program that only runs on a proprietary OS in order to adjust the programming on my power chair... I got a comment back that I should figure out how to do it w/ Free Software So let me see, I have a proprietary undocumented piece of hardware that I need to totally reverse engineer from the hardware communications protocol to it's internal data structures, along w/ how to read and write to it (as a non-programmer) OR use an existing set of non-free tools that already does what I need? (and there is *NO* commercially available Free Software compatible wheelchair control hardware, I'm using what is arguably the most open of the available systems) Tough decision(NOT!) If I wasn't already a Free Software supporter, where do you think I might have told the person telling me to figure out how to use free software to stick his GNU? ART -- Arthur Torrey - --- > On 11/16/2021 2:24 AM Yuchen Pei wrote: > > > Jean Louis writes: > > > > > But you can't expect from LibrePlanet to endorse proprietary > > software > > in order to "win friends" as it contradiction to the purposes of > > LibrePlanet. > > +1. Such compromise does not help the free software movement, and > I am all for a combined effort if it does not require compromise > like this. > > -- > Best, > Yuchen > > PGP Key: 47F9 D050 1E11 8879 9040 4941 2126 7E93 EF86 DFD0 ><https://ypei.me/assets/ypei-pubkey.txt> ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: federated free software movement
As I said, I was only using 'purity' for lack of a better term... One of the issues that I see is that there isn't always a Free (as in source code, might or might not be free as in beer) solution, or one that doesn't involve significant sacrifices... As one example we know there is a lot of PC hardware that either only works w/ binary blobs, or where the Free drivers don't work as well as the non-free ones... Or hardware like the RasPi that is nominally open, but needs blobs for some of it's functions. In other cases there is NO non-free alternative... The programming software for my power chair (which is bootleg / pirated BTW) only runs on a Windows box, and is closed source I have to choose between non-free software, or being stuck w/ the crappy OEM settings... (Which is why I have a few air-gapped Windows boxes, and GNU/Linux boxes that run Zoom, MS Teams, and so forth...) As such, coming at folks w/ an attitude of 'proprietary is evil and only Free solutions are acceptable' is not going to win friends... We need to be willing to say that partially free / open is better than totally locked down, even if it needs proprietary tools... ART -- Arthur Torrey - --- ---MUCH TRIMMED- > On 11/13/2021 11:18 PM vi...@riseup.net wrote: > > > On 2021-11-14 10:03, Arthur Torrey wrote: > > I think the only thing that might be an issue where the groups might > > need to have a significant level of willingness to compromise is on > > the 'purity requirements' (for lack of a better term) I.e. both the > > OSHW and R2R folks don't necessarily have big issues w/ using > > proprietary software / binary blobs if it makes it possible to > > accomplish their ends of making cool objects (i.e. a gizmo that is > > based on a RasPI) or fixing a device (i.e using a Windows based > > proprietary programming tool)... So while pointing out how Free > > software might make it easier to make / fix things, the FLOSS > > enthusiasts would need to not be hostile to the idea using software > > that we don't approve of... This is sort of like my comment that the > > RYF cert would be more popular / desirable if it didn't prohibit > > mentioning compatibility w/ other non-free O/S's... > > Personally, the issue isn't with 'purity', it's with 'compromise'. > Purity doesn't exclude variety, and it certainly doesn't indicate > group-think, to my mind. I don't even phrase the concept of only using > Free software as one of being 'pure'--when there are many options and > solutions that are already 'Free', why can't you always choose the right > choice? ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
re: federated free software movement
I think that this would be a really good idea, as I see a great deal of overlap between the motivations and ideals of the groups... It might also be worth reaching out to the 'maker' world as well since it also has a lot of overlap I don't do Bird-noises or Mastodon, but think it is a good idea in principle. I think the only thing that might be an issue where the groups might need to have a significant level of willingness to compromise is on the 'purity requirements' (for lack of a better term) I.e. both the OSHW and R2R folks don't necessarily have big issues w/ using proprietary software / binary blobs if it makes it possible to accomplish their ends of making cool objects (i.e. a gizmo that is based on a RasPI) or fixing a device (i.e using a Windows based proprietary programming tool)... So while pointing out how Free software might make it easier to make / fix things, the FLOSS enthusiasts would need to not be hostile to the idea using software that we don't approve of... This is sort of like my comment that the RYF cert would be more popular / desirable if it didn't prohibit mentioning compatibility w/ other non-free O/S's... ART Message: 3 Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 14:29:30 + From: Leah Rowe To: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org Subject: federated free software movement Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" What if there was a combined Free Software, OSHW and Right to Repair group, providing ideological leadership in a peer to peer fashion via federated services (including Git-based code hosting) and an emphasis on teaching how to self-host your own federated hosting infrastructure? ------ Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
re: Linux distro chooser
I was rather underwhelmed - nice idea but the end was a HUGE list of distros, with very little info that would separate them. For instance, I said yes to user is visually impaired, and that got the same list w/ the addition of "Software for visually impaired people are installable (e. g. 'Orca')" to each entry except for Knoppix, which has extra stuff for this built in, and might be a best choice, but it was in the MIDDLE of the list... I gave feedback that they need to reduce the number of suggestions and make it a ranked list not just the list of most distros in the same order w/ +/-'s for each, as that really doesn't tell me much... I also would point out that I AVOID the "all free" distros because I pick up my hardware used / salvaged and it is FAR more important to me that it WORKS than that I avoid binary blobs and other non-free stuff of that sort (I do try to minimize it, but I do what it takes to make my hardware work) IMHO given that a user starting on the Freedom Ladder probably has hardware that was purchased for a non-free OS, pointing them at an all-free distro is setting them up for a bad experience... OTOH a distro like Debian that starts by installing only free (albeit w/ blobs in the kernel) software, but gives an error and points out the non-free drivers needed to make a functional system if needed is FAR more helpful, especially to those that aren't into the esoteric challenges of finding hardware that runs on free software (something not listed on most boxes...) ART --- Start Quote --- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 18:26:48 +0100 From: Paul Sutton To: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org Subject: Linux distro chooser Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Hi All I just found this on Mastodon, a really useful tool to help people find a good linux distribution based on their needs. https://distrochooser.de/ Paul End Quote -- -- Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: COVID-19 testing (fischersfr...@sent.at)
The thing I've found necessary in such situations is to keep bouncing the ball back into their court... "You need to use tech" -I don't have tech "We can't do it w/o the tech" -That's not my problem, find a solution... "We don't have a solution" - Are you refusing to provide care? Are you engaging in discrimination? Can I speak to your manager? etc... Ask them who their accrediting body is, and how to file a complaint... Most hospitals are REQUIRED to have a 'patient ombudsman' who's job is to advocate for patients having problems - drop it in their lap... Basically you need to be enough of a pain in the posterior that they will find a solution just to make you shut up and go away... ART -- Arthur Torrey - --- > On 08/20/2021 12:49 PM fischersfr...@sent.at wrote: > > > Dear Arthur, > > Arthur Torrey writes: > > One of the options is to LIE and tell them you don't have > > the technology needed to run the proprietary software... > > Arthur Torrey writes: > > I have lots of times when folks want me to run some sort > > of software on my phone (I don't even ask if it's proprietary) > > I just whip out my flip-phone and ask them how > > I commonly use similar tactics to great success. Unfortunately, they > work only when my counterparty knows the process to be possible without > the particular so-called technology (a mobile phone in this case). > > While I have not kept good records on the matter, I think such tactics > worked better for me before last year; it seems people have this past > year accepted newfangled computers as required for communications. > > Cordially, > Fischers Fritz ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: COVID-19 testing (fischersfr...@sent.at)
One of the options is to LIE and tell them you don't have the technology needed to run the proprietary software... They can't force you to buy a computer or zombie-phone just to run their programs, and they are mostly not allowed to refuse to give you a test, so it is up to them to find a way to give you the results w/o that software... I.e. provide a protocol for you to call them on the phone. I have lots of times when folks want me to run some sort of software on my phone (I don't even ask if it's proprietary) I just whip out my flip-phone and ask them how ART -- Arthur Torrey - --- > On 08/18/2021 12:00 PM libreplanet-discuss-requ...@libreplanet.org wrote: > Today's Topics: > >1. Re: COVID-19 testing (fischersfr...@sent.at) > > Dear Pedro, > > I don't just go to a local pharmacy and take the test there because > every local pharmacy I have tried requires me to run proprietary software > if I am to take the test. > > Cordially, > Ibsen > > > > -- > > Subject: Digest Footer > > ___ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss > > > -- > > End of libreplanet-discuss Digest, Vol 136, Issue 8 > *** ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Blind user complaining on Adobe web site
As a sighted user I don't really feel competent to make a list - as doing so would be similar to the issues I have with all the various engineering / design student projects that attempt to create a 'better' wheelchair without ever really understanding the day to day needs of actually having to live in a chair... This usually results in a chair that "solves" whatever they see as a 'problem' but is all but unusable for doing anything else That said, what *I* would think important is a screen reader that could read any text being displayed on the screen as a minimum... A very useful addition would be some sort of navigation assistant that could find the menu items on the page and just read those. A 'nice to have' but probably not realistically possible would be some sort of AI that could recognize enough graphics to read things like 'photos of text' and (much harder) do descriptive audio captioning on pictures My S.O., Mary-Anne has recently become legally blind, she still has some sight but not a lot. Her current main machine is a Fruit co. laptop, which I have set up a 24" monitor to use as a larger display. As her 'seeing eye person' I often have to work with her to deal with things like paying bills and navigating other sites... In order to see the screen she has to blow up typical text (like this) to around 24-36 point, and even with a 24" monitor that results in looking at a site through what amounts to a porthole... Just navigating around a banking site is painful due to her needing to constantly be scrolling around the page. The fruit co. O/S does have a screen reader but it either doesn't help much or she hasn't learned enough about how to use it to best advantage. (could easily be the latter) ART ------ Arthur Torrey - --- > On 05/07/2021 4:09 AM Jean Louis wrote: > > > * Arthur Torrey [2021-05-07 04:58]: > > Jean Louis pointed at Vinux - which I had found and looked to me > > like a near-dead project - The home page is non-https, and is > > skeletal at best... The Wiki is talking about the 'latest version' > > as of 2015, and while it says the last update was in 2019, the > > download site doesn't connect (Firefox times out w/ can't find site > > error) and there have only been about 2 changes to the wiki since it > > was created in 2013 according to it's history page... > > Make a list of items that are to you, by your opinion, most important > for blind user, and send it. > > > > > -- > Jean > > Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: > https://www.fsf.org/campaigns > > Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman > https://stallmansupport.org/ > https://rms-support-letter.github.io/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Blind user complaining on Adobe web site
Jean Louis pointed at Vinux - which I had found and looked to me like a near-dead project - The home page is non-https, and is skeletal at best... The Wiki is talking about the 'latest version' as of 2015, and while it says the last update was in 2019, the download site doesn't connect (Firefox times out w/ can't find site error) and there have only been about 2 changes to the wiki since it was created in 2013 according to it's history page... I found a few other low vision projects and they seemed similarly moribund. I asked on another site and the response I got was either similar pointers to seemingly dead projects, or that because most of the mainstream distros now have some level of accessibility built in, the low-vision / blind specific projects have mostly died. As a non-programmer, who has listened to a few presentations at Libre-Planet and read articles here and there I can't contribute any code, but as a 'partly baked idea' my thought about how it might be possible to do a better job on accessibility might be to try and tap into the system at a much earlier level What would happen if instead of trying to put accessibility in at the window manager (KDE / Gnome / etc.) level, there was instead an X-Windows driver that provided input to a screen-reader as a "display type"? How about having an "accessible keyboard" option (probably as an intermediate layer between the usual keyboard choices and the rest of the system as that would make it easy to use any desired key-mapping underneath it?) It seems to me that the closer the accessibility options are to the "bare metal hardware" the less they would be relying on window managers / programs to do the "right thing", and the more universally consistent they would be. Possibly less universal, but still coming in at a fairly low level, what if there was an "accessible" option for choosing the internationalization when setting up? As I said this may be something that wouldn't work for reasons that are above my pay-grade to understand, but perhaps might just be something that hadn't been considered. -- Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
RE: Blind user complaining on Adobe web site
(yeah! something other than flagellating RMS's deceased equine) I sort of agree, but at the same time, it appears to me that the FLOSS software world is far less 'disability friendly' than the fruit company or the other big name OS My S.O has just become legally blind due to medical issues, and while I've been looking at what might be available in the way of low-vision setups, I've been rather underwhelmed... It seems every resource person she has heard from is pointing at the fruit company products as being most 'low vision friendly'. As a paraplegic I have minimal (no) need for accessibility stuff on my computers, but when I look at what the quads I know who need more adaptive setups are also using fruit machines almost entirely. I'm not a programmer of anything more complex than an Arduino, so not a lot I can do to fix things personally. It seems like a lot of the lower level of accessibility in GNU/Linux seems to be a combination of a (somewhat understandable) lack of 'itch that needs scratching' among mostly able bodied developers, and the wide range of interfaces / API's / not sure what to call them that exist in the FLOSS world. While usually this diversity is a strength, IMHO it is a problem when trying to come up w/ a consistent UI that works w/ every application. OTOH the fruit co's "One Way to Do Things" seems to make it easier to design an accessible UI that works w/ everything, and then focus on making it better I don't know what the solution is, I just wish there was one. ex-Gooserider ------ Arthur Torrey - --- > Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2021 14:34:30 -0400 > From: Greg Knittl > To: Jean Louis > Cc: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > Subject: Blind user complaining on Adobe web site > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > fyi. pdf accessibility issues may be bigger than just XFA... > > https://community.adobe.com/t5/acrobat/anyone-know-how-a-blind-person-is-supposed-to-create-or-edit-a-pdf-when-acrobat-isn-t-screen-reader/m-p/10186392?search-action-id=167355598977=10186392 > > I see enormous convergence of interest between Linux and the disabled as > we are both 2 small and often overlooked minorities. The disabled may > have more formal legal rights than regular Linux users that we can > piggyback on... > > Greg ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Adobe Reader 10
I agree with you in general on the badness of SaaSS type services, and assuming (and we know what that does) that they are telling the truth about what they do, it seems less bad than say Google Docs... PDF Zorro wants you to upload a file to their server, do things to it and then download the result, and delete the file from their server... Assuming they really delete the file as they claim, user data doesn't stay in their control longer than the user takes to do what they want... IMHO this is not as good as keeping everything under your own control, but is not as bad as a service like Google Docs where your data lives on their equipment... I have tried several of the things that are claimed as PDF editors, and have not found one that I have been able to make work (which may be a failing on my end) to do what I was able to do w/ PDF Zorro - I only use it as a last resort, but at least it is there... ART -- Arthur Torrey - --- > On 03/18/2021 3:40 AM Jean Louis wrote: > > > * Arthur Torrey [2021-03-17 23:35]: > > I don't like suggesting a Service as a Software Substitute, but I > > have found a "Free-as-in-beer" service called "PDF-Zorro" that has > > worked for me on editing PDF forms that I couldn't accomplish > > otherwise... > > From a view point of having control over users' data that is no go. I > would not use that. > > > They claim that they don't collect personal info, retain the files > > you put on their server for editing, or do other evil things. They > > appear to be doing the free service as a way to promote their paid > > offerings. > > Yeah, right, those statements are for devoted religious people to > believe in. > > Service as a Software Substitute takes away users' freedom: > https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html > > "Service as a Software Substitute (SaaSS) means using a service as a > substitute for running your copy of a program. Concretely, it means > that someone sets up a network server that does certain computing > activities—for instance, modifying a photo, translating text into > another language, etc.—then invites users to let that server do their > own computing for them. As a user of the server, you would send your > data to the server, which does that computing activity on the data > thus provided, then sends the results back to you or else acts > directly on your behalf. > > What does it mean to say that a given computing activity is your own? > It means that no one else is inherently involved in it. To clarify the > meaning of “inherently involved”, we present a thought > experiment. Suppose that any free software you might need for the job > is available to you, and whatever data you might need, as well as > computers of whatever speed, functionality and capacity might be > required. Could you do this particular computing activity entirely > within those computers, not communicating with anyone else's > computers? > > If you could, then the activity is entirely your own. For your > freedom's sake, you deserve to control it. If you do it by running > free software, you do control it. However, doing it via someone else's > service would give that someone else control over your computing > activity. We call that scenario SaaSS, and we say it is unjust." > > Jean ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Adobe Reader 10
I don't like suggesting a Service as a Software Substitute, but I have found a "Free-as-in-beer" service called "PDF-Zorro" that has worked for me on editing PDF forms that I couldn't accomplish otherwise... They claim that they don't collect personal info, retain the files you put on their server for editing, or do other evil things. They appear to be doing the free service as a way to promote their paid offerings. No idea if it would handle the form in question, but if all else fails, might be worth a try. ex-Gooserider ------ Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: My take on trademarks vs. copyright, patents, etc.
Much trimmed for (slightly better) brevity... My previous paragraphs marked w #, Jean's marked with % My new stuff with & Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 10:33:39 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Arthur Torrey Cc: libreplanet-discuss , Richard Stallman Subject: Re: My take on trademarks vs. copyright, patents, etc. * Arthur Torrey [2020-11-01 23:04]: # I agree with RMS about the badness of patents and the desirability of copyleft (which REQUIRES copyRIGHT to work!) but as far as I am concerned, trademarks are generally a good thing and should be protected... % When software author prevents people to modify software and issue modified software under original name that IS practical obstacle to share software. & Trademarks don't stop you from modifying, or issuing modified software under a different name, this is sometimes called FORKing the code (assuming you don't want to share your mods upstream / upstream doesn't want to include them...) Trademarks ONLY serve to keep you from distributing your modified version under the SAME trademark % By principle I should be able to modify software AS I WISH, right? & Yes, absolutely... However you should not be able to use someone else's name in distributing your modified version. You may be benign, but there are bad actors out there that might want to damage your reputation, or cause other harms... & In my previous post I mentioned the vi vs. viGOR story... It is ancient in computer terms, but there is a web comic called User Friendly http://www.userfriendly.org/, and C. 2003 they had an arc involving a semi-evil genius attempting world destruction by creating a modified version of 'vi' that added a version of Microsoft's (not-so) helpful "Clippy" to an otherwise stock 'vi' and attempting to make it go viral. It was fiction when written, but the free software world being what it is, someone promptly was inspired to create it... See http://vigor.sourceforge.net/index.shtml & I have no idea if 'vi' is trademarked, I never looked, but if "I" held the 'vi' trademark, I would be seriously upset if someone started distributing 'vigor' under the vi name, as it is NOT the same program & I want to be sure that if I download a copy of 'vi' (or get it in a distro as part of the install) I get the REAL vi, not vigor (actually these days I'd probably get vim, but the vi command starts it just fine...) % When there is such clause that I cannot name software as I wish, I am thus not free. So for me, independent of other people' opinion, such trademark clause is making software non-free, as it forces me to modify the command name, or name of software prior to distribution. & You are forced to change the package name you distribute under, you are NOT required by trademark law (but may be by licensing or other restrictions) to change the command name, or any other detail... & In physical object land, it is possible to make and sell a motorcycle (and there were companies that did) made with 100% aftermarket parts, that appeared identical to a Harley in most respects (and some claimed to be better) However you could NOT call it a Harley-Davidson, as it was not made by them - I think that this was eventually ruled illegal because of 'look and feel' infringements, but AFAIK, it is still not clear just how the line is drawn between legal and not... More significantly, many of the clones were crap, which made the general idea less popular, and also market conditions changed so there was less of a shortage of 'real' HD's so not as much demand for the clones... % Obstacles like that are popularly made by Mozilla or by Rust. For that reason many GNU/Linux distributions decided to fork Firefox and change its names. That is why we have "Iceweasel". & And I'd be willing to lay odds that if you started distributing a package with a modified version of Iceweasel that worked the same but sent all your data to Fakebook, and did NOT change the package name, there would soon be lawyers banging on your door % It is great obstacle to modify 2809 occurences of the term "rust" in Rust programming language. & But unless the Rust license requires that, you aren't required to by trademark law... Even if you were, it doesn't seem that hard to do a 'search & replace' w/ most editors... % Imagine if `gawk' is trademark (maybe it is) and that copyright holder also requires that modification to gawk must change the name of the gawk due to reason that gawk is a trademark. That would automatically break all the other scripts depending on gawk. & Repeat; trademarks only require you to change the name of the package, not how it is called... However there are also things like aliases, or even a simple script called 'gawk' that calls whatever your modified program is called... Now if you changed the options / command
My take on trademarks vs. copyright, patents, etc.
First off, I don't speak for anyone but myself, so this is NOT an FSF or other organization view, though they might (or not) agree... I agree with RMS about the badness of patents and the desirability of copyleft (which REQUIRES copyRIGHT to work!) but as far as I am concerned, trademarks are generally a good thing and should be protected... Trademarks on free software have absolutely no interference with any of the FSF / GPL Four Freedoms, they don't prevent anyone from downloading, using, sharing or modifying a piece of software. ALL they do is possibly prevent you from using the same name when you share a modified copy This is a GOOD thing as it tells the users that they aren't getting the original unmodified version, but something different. This is a GOOD thing as it keeps the authors of the original from getting grief about problems with a modified version, or at least makes it easier for them to say that it isn't their issue To take an example from the "User Friendly" comic a few years back, "vi" is not "vigor" (vi enhanced by adding 'help' from Clippy)... The same thing applies in the larger world - trademarks tell us that a product we are looking at was made by a particular entity, and not some unknown, so helps us make informed purchasing decisions... It benefits the trademark holder to the extent that it means that whatever reputation the manufacturer may have earned is protected against cheap copies being sold with their label... It means Chevy doesn't have to worry about seeing their branding on Trabant's... Trademarks are in essence nothing but SIGNS... They convey information, but don't interfere... It means that when I grab a box of something, assuming it isn't counterfeit, I know who made it... If I go to the grocery store, I can choose the brand name product with the trademark name, or I can choose the store brand 'generic' version made by who knows - the trademarks tell me who made each one, and I might make a decision based on the brand's reputation / advertising / etc. but the trademark itself doesn't interfere with my choice. ex-Gooserider -- Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Please ignore the last message from me!!!
I sent to the wrong address - to many things that start w/ Libre. ART -- Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
current version????
I am having a lot of trouble w/ my LibreCAD install - it is constantly hanging and going into a non-responding mode especially if I try to zoom in or pan a drawing so that part of it is outside the active window. When I do 'about' in the program, I get: Version: 2.1.3 Compiler: GNU GCC 8.3.0 Compiled on: May 16 2019 Qt Version: 5.11.3 Boost Version: 1.67.0 System: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) I just went through a good bit of trouble figuring out how to add the Ubuntu PPA to my sources.list in order to get the latest version since I didn't want to waste time trying to fix a problem in an out of date version. Synaptic says the latest / installed version is 2.1.3-1.2 Is this current? I can't find anyplace on the web-page or elsewhere that says what the current version is (Suggestion to add it???) If it isn't, what is the current version and how do I go about getting it installed on Debian 10.4 (Buster) If it is current, what do you suggest to either make it stop hanging or provide more useful info for bug fixing? Thanks, ART -- Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: “Get rid of digests”
Flip side - I have 90% or more of the email lists I'm on set to digest mode... If I can't set a given list to digest, and it sends me more than 1-2 messages a day I am very likely to drop it... Granted I'm an old fart by some standards - I started computing back in the days of the Boston Computer Society (RIP) and BBS's were the communication channels of choice for anyone not in the University/Military/Industrial complex... (because there were NO public ISP's) My initial Internet experiences involved Gopher and WAIS via world.std.com and a UUPC account via Pioneer Village I learned about trimming back when people got flamed, if not banned outright for not trimming I am seriously annoyed by people that don't trim, (and give the feeble excuse that their Zombie-phone makes it difficult...) but I can always scroll past that crap fairly fast... But I have no interest in constantly maintaining filters or other such things - and already get to many individual email's a day, so digests are a REQUIREMENT as far as I'm concerned... Dump the digests and I will drop this list, which is one of the ones I usually find less useful anyway... ART -- Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
re: Exciting new changes for the LibrePlanet Wiki (Valessio Brito)
Nice job on the logo, and the first page of the site (I didn't poke further) Thanks for the good efforts... My biggest feeling about Wiki's is that they need HUGE improvement in the user interface for adding / editing content... A person wanting to do something should not have to learn and wrestle with a bunch of arcane formatting labels and tags - Most of us have long left the days of WordStar, and don't really think TEK is a great way to write notes... I am not a programmer, but see no reason why editing something in a Wiki should be any harder than using a modern WYSIWYG word processor like in LibreOffice or that other small orifice package... (or even most Forum software!) Because it is such a pain, I avoid making any sort of input into Wiki's (knowing me that might not be such a bad thing? ;-} ) ART (PS - thanks for a topic that isn't related to the RMS mess!) -- Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Nominate RMS for FSF award...
Minor suggestion for those that feel that RMS has been treated badly in the recent controversy - the call has just gone out for members to nominate potential recipients of the FSF awards given out at Libre-planet In the past as an FSF honcho, RMS has not been eligible, but now that he has resigned I know that I have a hard time coming up with the name of an individual who has done more to advance the cause of Free Software... Even if the decision makers decide to ignore them, it seems to me that a large number of nominations for RMS is a way of sending a message that we still appreciate his contributions A few other points - While "Virgin" certainly sometimes has sexual connotations (which can be applied to males as well as females) it is also not that unusual to apply it to those having a first encounter with any sort of major "life changing" experience - it seems not unreasonable to me that taking a persons "EMACS Virginity" does not inherently imply having sex. While sexual abuse is NEVER an OK thing, IMHO there are varying levels of 'yuckiness' (for lack of a better term) and that trying to say all abuse is equally bad does a disservice to those suffering the worst abuses. While neither is 'acceptable' I see a big difference in possible sex with a young lady that may have presented herself as willing, and possibly over the age of consent (who knows, we were not there!) and a forcible assault on a pre-adolescent When I looked at the actual CSAIL postings, and not the rantings and claims about what RMS allegedly said, it seemed obvious to me that this distinction is all that RMS was trying to make I am also somewhat uncomfortable with the speculation about RMS being on the autism spectrum - while it could well account for many of his inappropriate / questionable comments and actions, it is not particularly polite or acceptable to discuss a persons possible disabilities unless they disclose them voluntarily If you go through any sort of the training that people in jobs that can involve dealing with persons having disabilities (i.e. waitstaff, desk clerks, etc) the biggest point is that is is NOT acceptable to ask a person what their disability is A key instance is if someone presents with a service animal - it is allowed to ask what service the animal provides, but NOT what the disability is that requires that service Many disabilities are 'invisible' and people with them can be sensitive about inquiries about them. As a person with a highly visible disability I am perhaps more aware of this than many, but it seems to me that speculation about RMS's mental abilities is borderline offensive... Lastly, while there have been and are abuses that need correcting, it also seems that excessive reaction is also toxic in and of itself... I at least like to think that I am a person of good intent, and I try hard not to be offensive to others, but much of the current environment leaves me feeling like I'm walking through a minefield where saying or doing ANYTHING may lead to getting slammed by some person I have unintentionally offended This makes it really hard to even want to be involved if it is such a risky thing... (one of the major reasons I have not commented on this until now...) ART -- Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] Help with JavaScript
Suggestion on the ham thing from a non-ham... Look up "Andy's Ham Radio Linux" - it is an Ubuntu derived distro with every decent ham related Free / Open program he could find and make work, plus the standard utilities with a focus on being 'older hardware useful'... He is a long time ham, and in addition to maintaining the distro, has taken over maintainer duties for some programs that were otherwise abandoned, and has also created a few Linux programs to enable use of ham hardware that the manufacturer had only made software for that other O/S - I don't know if it would be 'Free' by Richards standards, as he basically works with whatever info about how to talk to the stuff that the manufacturer is willing to give him... I think it includes some of the 'fox-hunt' transmitters, and some programmable radios... He is a 'name' in the ham world for his distro, at least as I understand it. Andy also runs a Linux Meetup in Chelmsford, MA if that is local for you... ART ------ Arthur Torrey - --- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 00:41:40 -0500 From: Cal To: libreplanet-discuss Subject: [libreplanet-discuss] Help with JavaScript Message-ID: <03e8f3c9-e22b-f2c0-6ace-dd1560119...@bluehome.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I can send messages to website maintainers all day telling them that their site doesn't work without (non-free) JavaScript, but they don't help me use the site/program/service. Stuff that's hard to do: 5. Preparing for a ham radio license (practice materials are only on the Web, it seems) ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
[libreplanet-discuss] Dropbox vs. Linux
I am not a Dropbox user, so don't know a huge amount about it... However a friend was just posting that apparently DropBox is dropping their support for most of Linux - according to the SlashDot thing he linked to, DropBox is only going to support files from non-encrypted Ext4 file systems... He was wondering about alternatives I pointed him at OwnCloud and a few others I found by searching for DropBox in the FSF Free Software Directory, but any other suggestions? I will say that I am a bit perplexed by the description of what DropBox is supposedly doing. My understanding has always been that all the file handling was done by the O/S (Gnu/Linux or other) in a transparent manner - you (a program) requests read/write on a file and the O/S handles it through the file system driver such that it always looks the same to the requester... If so, how how would DropBox even know what file system you were using, let alone care??? (Of course I've never understood why you would want to store your files on other people's computers to begin with, but that is a separate issue) ART -- Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] libreboot workshop at libreplanet 2018
Many thanks to all that helped me over the course of the conference to get two of my laptops flashed w/ Libreboot - a T400 and a T500... I still need to install an O/S on them, but they both boot up into Grub as expected. (Right now I'm working through several days backlog of e-mails...) It was also educational in that this was the first time I'd done a really complete teardown of a laptop, so I now have a much better idea about just what is inside at least these machines, and how they go together. As far as I know, I'm the only person that actually got laptops flashed AT the conference, but I know we had lots of conversations on Sunday while working on putting them back together, so hopefully it will inspire more folks to look into flashing their hardware. ART -- Arthur Torrey - <arthur_tor...@comcast.net> --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
[libreplanet-discuss] A loss to the Free Software Community
Passing the word - I just got the following sad news on one of the other mailing lists that I am on... I know that Peabo was active in the Free Software world for many years, as that is how I first met him. I believe (but am not sure) that he may even have worked at the FSF office for a while. He was also one of the founding members of the Artisan's Asylum in Somerville, MA. where I am also a member and where I got this notice He will be missed. ART Original Message = Message: 7 Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 20:50:56 -0400 From: Derek Seabury <de...@artisansasylum.com> To: inma...@artisansasylum.com Subject: [inmates] Sad news for our community Message-ID: <bd32f807-0142-a530-4eb5-5284e8119...@artisansasylum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Friends, I'm sorry to share the news that Peter "Peabo" Olson, passed away on April 28th. Peabo has been a dedicated member of Artisan's Asylum since the beginning and remained a fixture not just in Space 1, but at every meeting and gathering I can recall. I would like to have a memorial event at a time TBD. If you would be interested in helping plan please let me know. /Derek -- Derek Seabury, Executive Director Artisan's Asylum, Inc. artisansasylum.com Learn. Make. Teach. ------ Arthur Torrey - <arthur_tor...@comcast.net> --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] OpenAg: Open Agriculture Initiative
Another group that is working on getting more open access to technology is the "Right to Repair" organization. (search on the name, I forget the website offhand) they have legislation pending in several US states to require the makers of any electronic device / device containing electronics - from cell-phones to medical equipment to tractors and agricultural machines, etc., release the technical information needed to diagnose and repair the device For those familiar with the Mass., USA "Automotive Right to Repair" law that was passed as a referendum a few years back, the Right to Repair folks are basically trying to extend that idea to cover all electronics... ART ------ Arthur Torrey - <arthur_tor...@comcast.net> --- > On May 12, 2017 at 12:00 PM libreplanet-discuss-requ...@libreplanet.org wrote: > > > Send libreplanet-discuss mailing list submissions to > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > libreplanet-discuss-requ...@libreplanet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > libreplanet-discuss-ow...@libreplanet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of libreplanet-discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >1. Re: OpenAg: Open Agriculture Initiative (Aaron E-J) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 22:32:10 -0400 > From: Aaron E-J <t...@otherrealm.org> > To: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] OpenAg: Open Agriculture Initiative > Message-ID: <fc05a570-0a1e-b0fa-72f6-453dd125d...@otherrealm.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > The agricultural technologies we need to see open sourced are the > combine and other large agricultural devices. The current combines are > extremely proprietary and users of them need to sign agreements to only > have them serviced by the company that made them (and shell out some > hefty dough in the process). The implements cost hundreds of thousands > at a minimum. It is something that a many large scale farmers are > already actively working on. I think if MIT partnered with them, we > could see some real innovation that would be a game change in the industry. > > In terms of solving world hunger ? this is not a technological problem > but a socio-political one. We can produce many times the necessary > nutrients to sustain life using century's old technology plus crop > diversification. Not that innovation in agriculture is a bad thing, but > let's not lose sight of the fact that the reason millions of people are > starving is because of politics and lack of educational and financial > resources. > > Aaron E-J > Other Realm LLC > http://otherrealm.org > http://theotherrealm.org (Blog) > > On 2017-05-11 2:55 AM, Daniel Pocock wrote: > > Thanks for sharing this on the LibrePlanet list, I'm also subscribed > > here too. I started a topic[1] on the OpenAg forum suggesting that > > LibrePlanet 2018 (and some other events) might be really good places to > > promote their work with people who will take a hands-on attitude to > > building these devices and sharing the philosophy in their local > > communities. > > > > Would anybody want to extend a more formal invitation for them to speak > > or exhibit at LibrePlanet or any other events? > > > > Could anybody suggest any other events where this would fit and post the > > links on the forum topic[1]? > > > > As well as the TED talk, Caleb Harper recently did a talk about this at > > Red Hat Summit, did anybody attend that last week? > > > > Regards, > > > > Daniel > > > > 1. > > http://forum.openag.media.mit.edu/t/collaboration-with-other-communities-especially-free-open-source/1801 > > > > > > > > On 10/05/17 23:29, willi uebelherr wrote: > >> Open Agriculture Initiative > >> https://www.media.mit.edu/groups/open-agriculture-openag/overview/ > >> > >> Wiki Open Agriculture Initiative > >> http://wiki.openag.media.mit.edu/ > >> > >> GitHub Open Agriculture Initiative > >> https://github.com/OpenAgInitiative > >> > >> Dear friends, > >> > >> this is a initiative from people from MIT/Boston. It is new for me and > >> i received this information on the FSF (Free Software
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] talos
I looked at the Talos and thought that it was really nice in concept, but WAY out of my price range... Alex is right about the cost factors and scale, etc., and that the target price isn't unreasonable for the scope of the project... But at the same time, I will say "Not My Problem" - as my issue is how much money is in MY wallet, and the bottom line is what can *I* afford... Even the EOMA68 is marginal, especially given what I've read about it's performance I can buy (or even trash pick) several 'trailing edge' Wintel laptop or desktop systems, and get them to at least moderately free states for less than what an EOMA68 costs, let alone the amount needed to get a functional Talos box Basically while the Talos idea is great, I'm forced by personal economics to say not until it is price competitive with non-free hardware, and I suspect the same applies to a lot of us... ART Original TRIMMED Message = Message: 1 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 18:00:48 + From: Alexander Stephen Thomas Ross <maillist_...@aross.me> To: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] talos Message-ID: <5ccc5264-fbbd-22b4-a1a0-f4cbe0352...@aross.me> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Regarding peoples "moans": Small scale, combined with high tech, cutting edge is $$, meaning lots and lots of money. $3.7mill doesnt sound that bad for a new high end arch. i would expect intel,amd,via to spend at least twice that much and even then i guess im thinking small, its probably more? idk, just a supission basied on my understanding from reading lukes posts from the rhombus-tech project (eoma68). -- Arthur Torrey - <arthur_tor...@comcast.net> ---
