Re: People calling the GPLs 'evil licenses' - action plan?
Just a thought about rhetorical approach and wording: the phrase
"proprietary fork" could be useful. Also, center the viewpoint of
prospective contributors.
"A permissive license allows software companies or other entities to
make a proprietary fork of a project. This means someone (Developer A)
could generously contribute code, then Microsoft (say) could take the
project, add their own enhancements, and release a competing version.
Developer A contributed expecting she would benefit from others'
contributions, yet she is walled off from Microsoft's contributions.
She's being played, basically. We want to choose a license that
encourages participation, and we think guaranteeing access to future
contributions without the possibility of a proprietary fork best serves
that.
"It's obvious why proprietary software companies prefer that projects
use permissive licenses, but when picking a license, I'm not
particularly concerned with what Google, Microsoft, or Apple prefer, or
what best integrates with their software stack."
I add this second bit because I think there's "word on the street" that
permissive licenses are more popular and preferred by more, um,
entities. But this is like gossip ("people are saying... "). Trace this
to origin and I think we would find a few big players loudly and
consistently slandering strong licenses.
Jim Garrett
On May 17, 2022 10:15:15 PM EDT, Aaron Wolf
wrote:
FWIW, as a link anyone can use, I put together this some years ago, aiming to be
fair and neutral enough while advocating copyleft:
[1]https://wiki.snowdrift.coop/about/licenses
That's probably the ideal link to share in this case IMHO
On May 17, 2022 2:27:30 PM PDT, Dennis Payne wrote
:
Having one person consider GPL an evil license isn't a big deal. I
wouldn't waste a lot of time trying to convert him. Nor would I send
them a link to long essay explaining the situation. wolftune's
argument
is the simplest. However since you already sent him an offensive
article, I doubt any argument will have much effect at this point.
On Tue, 2022-05-17 at 23:52 +0800, andrew via libreplanet-discuss
wrote:
Andrew Would
[2]https://git.andrewyu.org/pygame-multiplayer/ suffice to
indicate extending an existing Expat (MIT) project into a project
based on the original work but licensed under the (A)GPL?
Andrew ugh, forgot to place the agpl in it
ChrisWarrickask a lawyer
ChrisWarrick(and consider a less evil license)
Andrew Not asking for legal advice, just general practice
Andrew And I don't consider the GPLs to be evil, I use them for
bigger projects while I use public domain (unlicense) for smaller
ones
ChrisWarricklicenses are legal stuff, so you are asking for
legal
advice
Andrew asking stuff like 'does the US have any laws' is legal but
isn't asking for legal advice imo
ChrisWarrickyour question is “am I interpeting and using the
license correctly”
Andrew i guess
Andrew and why do you think the gpl is evil?
ChrisWarrickGPL, and especially AGPL, makes your code less free
than MIT/BSD
nedbat Andrew: this is a classic debate
Andrew ChrisWarrick: PM me, thanks
Andrew because I want to prevent people from proprietizing it
ChrisWarrickbut at the same time, you’re benefitting from
Brandon
Nguyen’s work
Andrew yes
ChrisWarrickbut he isn’t able to benefit from yours
Andrew they could use the AGPL/GPL, and they could ask me for an
exception
Andrew the greater danger is people taking expat code and
proprietizing it, hindering free use altogether
ChrisWarrickwhat is wrong with proprietary use though?
Andrew i'll get back to you with an article tomorrow, thanks on
your
thoughts
Andrew meanwhile,
[3]https://lukesmith.xyz/articles/why-i-use-the-gpl-and-not-cuck-lic
enses
explains part of it
Andrew dont agree to all of it, i see a lot of use of permissive
licenses, but not for the project working on now
ChrisWarrickdo you have a less offensive article?
Andrew I'm working on that
ChrisWarrickokay
I hope this is clear enough on what I need ... well, how do I
explain
the GPL to them?
___
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[4]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discus
s
___
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s
-- Sent from /e/ Mail.
References
1. ht
Re: Privacy Respecting Replacement for facebook groups
For some time I've been keeping my eyes open for Free-Software platforms that support group organizing. Sorry for coming late to the conversation; it's been a busy week. I wouldn't negate anything that's been said already, but would offer some additional possibilities. Friendica perhaps most directly resembles Facebook; there are open instances and you can also host your own (requires a domain name). Hubzilla is another platform with a lot of potential, but would require some setup (by the admin, not the user); it also requires a domain name. Wordpress recently launched "P2" which appears to be sort of a cross between blogging and messaging, which could be good for asynchronous communication. I've tried it a bit and it doesn't seem to be working as advertised; has anyone else tried it? Currently it's available only from Wordpress but they say it will be released (under what license?). Nextcloud's latest release is organized to be a team collaboration platform along the lines of Slack, Microsoft Teams, etc. You might be interested only in group messaging, but others might want to consider that there's more a group might want to do: - Work collaboratively on documents - Have a semi-static space for reference storage (as in a wiki) - Collaborate on a web page, such as for an event, and then publish it to the public - Manage invitations to an event - Provide a calendar (for meetings) - Store and present photos of an event or of group interest - Same for documents - And files - And more, I'm sure Lots of different systems offer one or more of these. Figuring out which does best, or how to get the most with the fewest different platforms, is not an easy question to answer. Friendica does many. I think many platforms would be easy to use once properly set up, though people would need to sign up, which is a barrier to entry. We should probably create a wiki page with a table of functions x available software. -Jim Garrett On Tue, 29 Sep 2020 16:11:53 + (UTC) Lori Nagel via libreplanet-discuss wrote: > Hello everyone, I'm trying to figure out a privacy respecting > replacement for facebook groups. I want something that is easy to > join, (so no requirement that you learn email encryption, system > administration or anything "hard" but also something that even > Richard Stallman wouldn't object to (not that I'm trying to recruit > him to join it, just some people are really zealots about stuff, if > it doesn't have javascript that is also a bonus.) I've also > considered things like email lists, matermost, irc and forums, and > I've dismissed them for the following reasons.1. Lots of people just > ignore email thesse days, plus it isn't really very real time.2. irc > is just a chat channel, too many bots and while it is real time, it > doesn't really have any persistance of topics.3. Forums tend to be > too public with just anyone can join it, and while you can have > private forums or private sections of forums, you need to be an > administrator to set that all up. Plus forums tend to have things > like spralling topics, and things that either get out of date, or > else there is no conversation about the subject (thread necromancy vs > an empty forum.) I want to create a small group that is highly > engaged with the subject, chatting everyday etc. 4. Email messages > from lists you need to get info from can end up in spam if you don't > set up email right. It is too easy to miss important messages cause > you get consumed with marketing or things you inadvertantly signed up > for and should not have. 5. Matermost is like discord, but then I > would have to set it up, and I'm not a professional system admin. If > i spend all my time learning professional system admin skills, then I > won't get to do what I want, which is interacting with people. > > Just on a whim I also checked into Dissporia and groups.io, mastadon > doesn't really have groups yet, and I don't think all the source code > for groups.io is included. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: The sad decline of copyleft software licenses? :(
(Not responding to Marinus specifically, just getting a few thoughts in the thread.) 1. First, the FSF has a community team of volunteers who try to respond to this sort of public issue. The public-facing PR arm of the FSF, as it were. Perhaps it should send a rebuttal to the journal? Thoughts, Pen-Yuan? 2. I recall an anecdote that might help crystallize things. I recall reading a comment from the founder (and copyright holder) of the LLVM project, saying that he chose a permissive license for the project because he had the intention of someday making a proprietary product based on it. (I probably can't find that quote, sorry!) Now, if you're an expert in writing compilers and have a notion to contribute to LLVM, how do you like the fact that you could offer your contribution freely, but the copyright holder could take it, add his own contributions, and put it not into LLVM but into a proprietary "LLVM+". You would have no access to the improved version; you could pay for a binary blob but you won't have the source code. All you have is an assurance that LLVM--as of the version you contributed to--will always be available. Not a bad thing, but aren't you a bit of a sucker? You gave, he took; he gave, and now you can't get. Wouldn't you rather contribute to a project with a strong Free license, so you know you'll get the benefit of future contributions from others? 3. *Of course* corporations are expressing a preference for permissive licenses. This benefits those that would like to make proprietary products based on them. *Of course* the GPL makes it harder to work with such software projects. This is simply a matter of large, powerful entities generating discourse that benefits them, and people not really paying attention to the deeper phenomenon. It seems critical these days in all areas of our lives: we need to evaluate the power and financial dynamics involved, and the motives of the entity generating the discourse. (Isn't it the case that Google has made a rule of no additional GPL software in Android? And of course they are developing their own kernel so they can get rid of Linux. Is it our business to make life better for Google?) 4. 99% of people, including (especially?) highly computer-literate people, have never even thought about associating ethics with software. We haven't lost the debate; we haven't *had* the debate. Just getting the question on the table would be a success. -Jim Garrett On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 23:00:33 +0200 Marinus Savoritias wrote: > On 9/22/20 8:39 PM, Pedro Lucas Porcellis wrote: > >> The second criticism is kind of a sign of the times if you think > >> about it. 30 years ago when GPL there was the big war of us versus > >> them. And evil corporations and all of that stuff. Not that these > >> dangerous corporations don't exist now of course. The danger of > >> corporations is more than ever. But the people have changed. > > > > I don't think those people have changed. They just adapted to the > > current environment. By marketing "open-source" libraries and > > components you can have cheap and free labor. "Don't worry, people > > will fix that React bug for you, while you don't really respect > > people's freedoms, keep spying, storing user's data, doing > > unethical things, and even fucking up things outside the > > non-digital world, I mean, look at facebook and Google, etc. > > I was talking about the developers. The companies of course haven't > changed. The backend has become more free software though among other > stuff. Not copyleft though. > > > > >> People nowadays are far more collaborative and diverse. The simple > >> number of programmers and licenses and software that we have is > >> hundreds of time more than 30 years ago. Expecting people to stay > >> only in the GPL ecosystem, which is not that big to begin with, is > >> basically driving people away. I can't think of a single > >> programmer that I can convince to use GPL with all of the > >> legalities and considerations of dependencies it can have. > > > > Again, that's just a lack of understanding and lazyness of today > > most developers. If a developer randomly picks a permissive license > > this person can trade that for GPL. The key difference is that all > > derivative-works will keep enforcing that premisse while building a > > chain of respect. > > I guess it depends how you look at it. For me its a lack of outreach > and connection from FSF and GNU to the rest of the developer > community. > > > > >> One big success story of Copyleft license is the Activity Pub > >> ecosystem if you know it. Mastodon, Pixelfed, Peertube, > >> WriteFreely and more all under
Re: My Experience Selling Free Software
Great idea, I second it! Jim Garrett On September 15, 2020 2:40:42 PM EDT, Yuchen Pei wrote: Have you considered submitting a session on something like "sustainable free sof tware development" to libreplanet 2021? [1]https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/submit-your-session-for-libreplanet-2021- before-oct-28 [2]https://my.fsf.org/lp-call-for-sessions?pk_campaign=LP21_source=cfsblog I think it would be a great session to have. Best, Yuchen On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, at 6:59 PM, Davis Remmel wrote: Hello libreplanet-discuss, In my experience very few free software developers sell their work. I want to share my experience with selling free software, and why I think it's important for developers to realize why it's beneficial, and explain the psychological processes that compound to support the software _more_ than gratis-ware. As background, I've now exclusively developed free software for about 4 years, and have just began selling it myself. Previously, I developed an industrial IoT platform built entirely with free software (real-time display of industrial processes, sidestepping proprietary vendors like Rockwell). This was not a consumer market, priced very high, and done contractually so the users were not casual consumers. This week, I released a piece of consumer-level free software, and in one week has generated over $500 in sales (45 paying users) from a single post on Reddit. As long as sales continue at the current pace (they have tapered off, but still making above the poverty limit) I am able to pursue writing all the free software I want, independently. For some background on why people buy my tool, it's because this tablet's manufacturer has crappy software, and there is only one other software vendor that also has crappy software. Usually, documents are transferred to this tablet via the manufacturer's cloud, but my tool transfers documents locally. Also, the manufacturer's software allows exporting of a user's documents, but they look like bad photocopies (they wanted to keep their pencil shading code proprietary)--my software has its own renderer, and produces images that actually look like what the tablet's screen shows. Coincidentally, my software exports these documents locally (secure), faster (rendered on-PC), with higher quality, and lower file sizes. Ergo, my software is plain better, and so it fills many consumer needs--this is a huge factor in why it sells (not just because its free). With a $12 purchase, I give customers 1 year of email support and updates. And, I have written a high-quality user manual that I showcase to let users know exactly what the software does before buying. My sales pitch is blunt, straight-forward, with no bullshit. The _bonus_ for customers is that my software is not restrictive. The other available clients are incredibly restrictive: one client uses the manufacturer's cloud (Google), and the other has typical proprietary ToS and charges 3x the price. The GPL lets the users share mine freely and spread it around. I don't care if they share copies because I have an advertisement for the 1-yr-support+updates in the About pane, and who wouldn't want updates and support for $1/month, especially when it fills a need in their daily workflow? So, with this background of my software and strategy, let me explain some psychological effects that happen with the customers. In gratis-ware, such as the common type of free software project, users will just stop using the software if it doesn't work for them. They didn't invest any money into it, and so they don't invest any of their own time to ensure they get their money's worth ($0). So, if the software doesn't work precisely right for them, they'll just stop using it. Or, if another software does something similar but also something else, they'll switch without a second thought. Two-fold, without charging money, if there is a bug in the gratis-ware the user will typically not submit a bug report, or if they try to it is locked behind some restrictive interface (a software forge with user accounts). The developer is left with no money, and no bug reports. My first release contained some blocker bugs (some users couldn't start the program) but they paid for it and wanted to get their money's worth. I offered support, and virtually all problems were fixed the next day with release #2, and my inbox has been pretty quiet since (except for payment notifications ;) ). To make it easy, I give my customers priority email. This doesn't require any account registrations, nothing blocking them from talking to me. I've developed a relationship with some of my more-enthusiastic
Re: Practicality of GNU project and libre movement (Sagar Acharya : 2)
Hi Yasu! I would love to help and I'm sure others would too. FSF has a Discord instance but it's reservered for FSF members. Would a wiki page or an online collaboratively-edited document make sense? I'm sure we could find a server to host this. Also, there are already some resources available on the FSF web site: https://www.fsf.org/resources, see "Resources for promoting free software". I would want to learn more about this coöp in order to tailor the message: What unites their community? How did it start? What sort of services do they offer their clients? What sort of services would they like to offer in the future? What is their culture, what are their dreams? -Jim Garrett On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 09:00:29 +0900 Yasuaki Kudo wrote: > Hi, > > I think this thread definitely explores many good points - I am new > here but is there any structured discussion system for Free Software > movement? For example, this site runs a discussion software called > "Discourse" https://community.coops.tech/ > > I have been asked by a contact at a large worker cooperative with > over 10,000 members to provide some 'talking points memo' so that he > can promote free software internally. > > They are facing the situation where they will become more and more > invested in Microsoft, Google, Zoom, etc or potentially switch to > Free Software ecosystem. > > Cheers, > Yasu > > > > > On Jul 25, 2020, at 05:39, Miles Fidelman > > wrote: > > > > On 7/24/20 3:14 PM, Roberto Beltran via libreplanet-discuss wrote: > > > >>>> Most people on here already know how bad things are, but I don't > >>>> think it's black or white win or lose. > >>> Do we really know how bad things are? Is there a report somewhere > >>> showing, for example adoption in free software, copyleft license > >>> and dependency in proprietary software / noncopyleft software in > >>> numbers and how it has evolved over the time? > >>> > >>> On a side note, do we have success criteria (over achievable > >>> stages, not just disappearance of proprietary software from the > >>> world) that we can use to compare and good metrics to measure the > >>> progress of the movement? > > Funny thing, but... > > > > - Pretty much every funded R project that I've been associated > > with, has contractual clauses requiring software to be released as > > either open source or to the public domain - the leading edge > > remains open source > > > > - Pretty much every ISP, Hosting, and Cloud provider relies heavily > > on FOSS software - with the bigger ones both funding critical > > projects, and releasing a lot of their infrastructure code as FOSS > > (Apache & Open Stack come to mind, Lyft's Clutch infrastructure > > management platform is looking particularly interesting) > > > > - The vast majority of the world's web sites run on Apache, on > > Linux or BSD - and a huge number run on WordPress (all FOSS) > > > > - Savvy IT directors prefer open source software to proprietary > > software - not for cost reasons (maintaining software is costly, > > whether you pay a vendor to do it or hire people) - but because > > it's more flexible, and avoids vendor lock in (less-savvy IT > > directors use FOSS because they think it's cheaper) - by the way, > > that includes some rather large organizations, like large pieces of > > the US Marine Corps > > > > Perhaps the real problem is that MOST software doesn't make it into > > wide-spread use, and hence cannot assemble a base of support for an > > open source effort. Specialized software tends to have smaller > > audiences - requiring either a very high price-tag, or a grant, to > > support a dedicated development & support team. And then there's > > the 90% that's a mix of pet projects, poorly implemented, that will > > never make it as either commercial or open source. > > > > Yes... there are lots of practical issues with the GNU project & > > other libre software efforts - but they have a lot more to do with > > lack of focus, design by committee, and, these days, politicization > > of language & discussions, and ostracism of key people (e.g., > > Stallman, Torvalds). The flaps over systemd (techno-politics) & > > Stallman (gender politics) have been far more damaging to free > > software, than financial matters. > > > > All of this is, of course, one man's opinion. Based on 50 years in > > the networking business, including a bunch of years at BBN, selling > > & leading lo
Re: Sacrifices made for Free Software
I just read your blogs and...wow. It's clear that you're educating yourself in the best sense, and the college is being bureaucratic and inflexible. In reading this thread, I was initially siding with the folks recommending that you bear with it up and finish college. For some, or most, that would the right answer. But then reading your blog and seeing that your area is computer science, I think it does make sense to drop out and focus on your portfolio. It seems that your struggle is part of your education. Clearly you won't be successful in the mainstream...but with software there are successful activities outside the mainstream. For instance, Red Hat and Nextcloud are successful. If you'd like our community to bombard the dean with letters of protest, just say the word! As an aside, I've found that it doesn't occur to most people that there exists an ethical dimension to software at all. To them, it's not a question of one mode being more ethical than another, it's thinking about ethics at all. Frankly I didn't see this clearly myself until attending the LibrePlanet conference some years ago. So I've been putting it this way (which works better in e-mail than in person): - In today's world, is information important? Is there an ethical dimension to information and communications? Could there be power relationships involved? - Are the tools and technologies we use to manage our information and communications important? Is there an ethical dimension to those? Could there be power relationships involved? Jim Garrett Melrose, MA On Mon, 08 Jun 2020 20:13:19 + Davis Remmel wrote: > > Of course people might argue the merits of college education to > > start with > > I'll argue that. :) > > I didn't even go to college because I saw it as a scam where most of > the dollars goes to administration, not instruction. > > To say some words about choosing a life of Free software: it has > served me phenomenally well. I've used Free software in personal and > professional life for a decade, and I would never have made as much > money as I did (as the VP of Engineering at a data center ISP) if I > didn't go down that path. All I know is directly attributable to > being able to read and modify source code, to learn _deeply_ how > systems work. > > The people who matter, those who admin the big networks and write > systems code, all agree with the Free philosophy and wouldn't be > where they are, either, without going deep into it. > > It is exactly that knowledge that has afforded me well. Reasoning > about your work saying, "we'll use this because it is better because > X," instead of, "nobody got fired for using Y," is very special--most > "professionals" I've had to work with couldn't program a rice cooker, > and fewer ever heard of GNU. Fad-Driven Development is a cancer, and > the ones who get ahead are those who see it for what it is. > > > People will generally take you more seriously > > I'd take the OP more-seriously if he stuck to his moral principles, > and I would hire him before someone who graduated by "making a CPU > out of a PIC" or wrote some CRUD web apps. There will always be other > people who dismiss us because they don't understand us, but I would > argue they aren't worth our time to begin with. It's a big world. > > > You'll be in a better negotiating position to get work that that > > requires less proprietary software and makes more money > > You don't get less of something (non-Free software) by using more of > it. Money is a stupid construct, but it's quite nice that it falls > from the sky upon those who took the path of greater > resistance...those who learned a heck of a lot more than their peers > by taking that path. > > > You'll be in a better position to get work at all, considering how > > the economy is moving > > To OP: don't ever settle! You're still young, but don't make the same > mistake so many others do: to settle for a job, sacrificing a little > of yourself for something/one else. The gift of Life is incredibly > precious, and limited!, and you're here now so make the best use of > your time. When you die, you'll be able to look back with nothing but > a smile on the decisions you made, and you'll likely inspire others > to follow in your footsteps. You can either be a leader or a > follower, and the former sets the rules for the latter. I suggest > leading by example; on that, you're off to a heck of a good start. > > :) > > -- > Davis > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > On Monday, June 8, 2020 1:23 PM, Roberto Beltran via > libreplanet-discuss wrote: > > > > > > > > I studied for 2 years at SIUe before dropping out > &
Re: Communication around Covid-19
Hand sanitizer is currently scarce in stores in the Boston area. But we still have soap and water! Jim Garrett On March 6, 2020 4:51:19 PM EST, Marcus Wilson wrote: I'm excited as well! I don't post very much but I enjoy the activity in the mailing list. Does anyone know if hand sanitizer is sold out across the city or can I get some at a corner store when I arrive ? What's a fun, safe, way to greet if not shaking hands? Tapping feet or bowing or what is most efficient and polite? Thanks, -Marcus On Fri, Mar 6, 2020, at 2:32 PM, Ian Kelling wrote: Greg Farough writes: On Thu, Mar 05 2020, Michael Mauger via libreplanet-discuss wrote: I want to encourage some official communication about how the conference is making allowances to handle the current virus outbreak. While we may do nothing specific (not my preferred position) we should at least acknowledge the questions that attendees may be asking. The FSF is currently preparing this kind of statement, which we hope to get out in the next day or so. -g Note, that statement has gone out as an email and a blog post here [1]https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/update-on-covid-19-and-librep lanet-2020 I'm really looking forward to the conf. -- Ian Kelling | Senior Systems Administrator, Free Software Foundation GPG Key: B125 F60B 7B28 7FF6 A2B7 DF8F 170A F0E2 9542 95DF [2]https://fsf.org | [3]https://gnu.org ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [4]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discus s -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. References 1. https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/update-on-covid-19-and-libreplanet-2020 2. https://fsf.org/ 3. https://gnu.org/ 4. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: FLOSS alternatives (was re:Campaign to boycott Facebook)
On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 14:11:29 -0500 LM wrote: > On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 Jim Garret wrote: > > From: Jim Garrett > > I also made the tactical choice to > > not for Free Software specifically, for which I'm sure many here > > will be disappointed. I generally do advocate for Free Software > > when I see an opportunity, but I felt the need to focus in this > > case, and can discuss software freedom in whatever follow-up > > conversations arise. > > I would be very interested to hear what alternatives there are to > various social media networks that are specifically Free/Libre > software based. I'd also be especially interested in what > alternatives work well with low resource or older hardware. Many of > the newer social media systems require the latest and greatest > browsers or other software that's complicated to build and isn't > always available for older systems. Forums like the Puppy Linux forum > try very hard to support older and low resource computers. Are there > other good examples of this sort of thing? With the recent issues > with Yahoo Groups, I investigated what free mailing list alternatives > were still available. I ran across a few options like > https://framalistes.org/sympa/ but I really could not find a lot of > options even when I looked at non-Free alternatives in this area. Has > anyone put together a list of FLOSS options for social media sites and > Internet methods of connecting with each other (whether they're web > 2.0 based or earlier concepts)? I'd appreciate hearing any > suggestions for FLOSS options for social media or suggestions for > resources where you could look up FLOSS options. Thanks. > > ___ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss You could check out https://switching.software/ as a start. I can't speak to resource requirements exactly, but I use an old Atom-based netbook with 2GB RAM so it's towards the low end. I have the sense that Friendica seems pretty lean. Mastodon seems to have more Web 2.0 elements, but I can run it with no particular problem. -Jim ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Campaign to boycott Facebook
Hi everyone, I've always counseled friends to leave Facebook, when the conversation was feasible or potentially fruitful, but hearing recently that author Stephen King has left Facebook due to FB's policy to allow factually incorrect political advertisements, I realized just how this threatens US democracy (and possibly democracy in other countries as well): (1) the Trump campaign has at least 500M dollars, and (2) Trump has no compunction against disgorging a stream of lies with no concern for discourse. I'm envisioning what is technically called a s**tstorm that will cause chaos and simply overwhelm discourse. I'm calling out to my friends to ask them to boycott, and I'm suggesting they preserve their Facebook community by organizing transitions to alternatives. I suggest Friendica and Mastodon as specific alternatives. I've written my missive in blog form here: https://internetperdition.wordpress.com/2020/02/22/boycott-facebook-for-real-this-time-to-save-our-democracy/ Please consider reaching out to your friends and colleagues similarly. Feel free to point them to my blog, create your own version, or proceed however makes sense to you. I think this is a special time. Facebook has always been reprehensible, but now they've made one additional error that most people find particularly hard to swallow: they forbid incorrect medical ads because "they could cause harm", but not incorrect political ads. It follows that Facebook believes that political ads don't cause harm. Admittedly, my post is US-centric. I also made the tactical choice to not for Free Software specifically, for which I'm sure many here will be disappointed. I generally do advocate for Free Software when I see an opportunity, but I felt the need to focus in this case, and can discuss software freedom in whatever follow-up conversations arise. Thanks for acting in whatever way you can! Jim Garrett ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Request Advice for Work Meeting on Why use GNU+Linux
Some quick thoughts: - Automatic updating, high security for a well-regarded distro with little need for IT involvement after deployment. - Unix is the Lingua Franca for informatics (if not biostatistics). Virtually unlimited tool set. Often this Unix system is a Mac, but why not get Unix directly? I'm a statistician also; if you ever want to correspond, drop me a line! At work I have a Windows client but I use that to access a cluster running Red Hat for all my actual statistical work. Jim Garrett On January 13, 2020 10:49:17 PM EST, lily via libreplanet-discuss wrote: Hello All! I have a last minute question on how to prepare for a meeting tomorrow Tuesday 2pm Pacific Standard time. PLEASE RESPOND SOON! I work as a biostatistician for a hospital and when I started working there I requested a computer with a GNU+Linux OS. My request was promptly denied, because IT said they simply do not support Unix. But TOMORROW, there will be a meeting with the following objective: Discuss request for Providing a GNU+Linux operating system for a caregiver that will be using statistical software. The Principle IT engineer wrote this email in anticipation of the meeting: Greetings, I have passed information about this meeting to the manager of the Unix Server Operations team in case he wants to get anyone involved. I am also very concerned about the management and security of such a one off device. Given the network nature of Unix/Linux is there any reason that a Linux client server couldn't be provided instead with an X Windows Server provided on the Windows laptop to connect and utilize software that is installed (and hopefully managed) on the server? While this is overkill for a single user I suspect that there are a lot more users in the various informatics departments that might welcome such a service. I hope this helps stir up some ideas. Principle IT Engineer My background is in mathematics/statistics, but I am a supporter of Free Software because of all the good reasons why Free Software is what it is. I do not have any technical background with regard to servers, server client, network, etc and so I feel I will struggle with explaining why I made this request, why I think this is a good OS for serving our patients, and why it would be good for the long run to support GNU+Linux OS computers. My question for the Libre community is: How do I present my case for tomorrow to explain why it is beneficial for IT at this hospital to have support caregivers that wish to work on a computer with a GNU+Linux OS? Please help! Thank you! Crista -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] Free-software groupware strategies lab
Certainly. First, "groupware" certainly is a buzzword and using it may help and/or hurt understanding. I'm looking for several key features, at least initially: 1. Event management (create invitations, allow people to forward them to others, people can accept or decline, we can see who has confirmed, we can send reminders). 2. Have an associated event page on the web. 3. Online storage for a group to access files. 4. Collaborate text editing, and maybe spreadsheet editing as well. 5. Voice communications software 6. Webcasting (showing a computer desktop to multiple people online, simultaneously with audio and perhaps video) I know of at least one workable tool for each of those categories, and we don't have to have a unified suite of tools. At the very minimum, even if someone pointed me to existing tools already deployed and workable, I would like to practice with them, and that requires partners. But chances are there are more details to work through. For instance, I just requisitioned a hosted Nextcloud instance, and Collabora (LibreOffice) with Nextcloud and voice communication look promising. But it turns out one must have a separate Collabora server, so I need to look into that if indeed that is the direction to go. Or if one uses Etherpad, Nextcloud can integrate with it but doesn't actually supply it; one needs an Etherpad instance. RiseUp doesn't hit all of the requirements; FramaSoft comes close but some of their pages are not yet translated to English (maybe helping would be a direction to go?). I haven't yet checked out the other services you mentioned. But everywhere I've looked I see options but not quite a solution in hand. Also Nextcloud's video chat doesn't scale up to numbers of participants (>5 in their documentation). What about voice? Could we test 10 people on a call? For voice chat there are so many options, but for people accustomed to just installing what their friends have, I need to recommend one or two options, make sure they're good options, and make sure they're able to set them up properly. Details, details, details! I think the Free world will never be able to match the convenience of centralized services that offer a service at the hidden expense of surveillance. Centralization inherently facilitates group-oriented tasks. So when presenting these tools to groups, I would anticipate, at best, some individuals will give grudging acceptance. In this context, every glitch or complication will add friction and potential resistance. I would of course present these tools as more than just a feature-for-feature match to proprietary packages, but still, making the process as smooth as possible will help. That requires testing things out beforehand and knowing what I'm doing! I'm not afraid of the command line, but I'm not an experienced admin. Getting advice and direction from people who know what they're doing will help a great deal. That's one thing I hope to gain from this effort. I know this list is available to offer help, but posting frequently and having detailed discussions on this list is really not ideal. Better to collect this information, post it somewhere, and notify the community about it. The solution could be close at hand or could require some work. If it's close at hand, wonderful, let's document it and get it out. If it takes more legwork, then that's what we need to do. I hope that helps! -Jim On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 16:52:24 + "D. Joe" wrote: > On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 12:13:27PM -0400, bill-auger wrote: > > im not very familiar with the term (buzzword?) "groupware"; but > > that description sounds like what mattermost aims to be: > > My thoughts had turned to the suite of things hosted by, eg, > framasoft.org, disroot.org, mayfirst.org, or riseup.net, or more > generally those listed in > > https://github.com/Kickball/awesome-selfhosted > > and provided by > > https://github.com/ecobytes/awesome-librehosters > > or packaged by the likes of yunohost, freedombox/freedombone, > lollipopcloud. > > Jim, maybe you can clarify how what you have in mind either > resembles, or differs from, any of those? > > > > ___ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
[libreplanet-discuss] Free-software groupware strategies lab
Hi everyone, For quite some time I've been interested in advocating for Free Software tools in group organizing. I don't mean just advocating for the principle, but literally and operationally rolling out working options for the groups we organize ourselves, or those we participate in. It seems like groups reflexively use Facebook for outreach and event management, Google Drive for media storage, and Google Docs for collective editing. Tools for messaging and voice are more varied. Fortunately, there are many Free alternatives. I've been trying to roll out a competing Free ensemble for the groups I work with, and I've run into a number of issues. What is the best deployment strategy? How do I become familiar with the details of using the tool, so I can give my colleagues a mature, seamless experience? If I don't really know the tool well myself and I'm figuring it out as I go, it won't give a very good impression. I'd like to ask this community's help and involvement, not just for my own benefit but to create an online resource that would recommend to people--including non-admins--clearly and directly how to roll out a useful ensemble of tools. By definition, it's hard to test groupware by oneself! I'm envisioning a group of people who collaborate to do groupware setup and testing in order to recommend workable practices. We would document these choices on a wiki somewhere (somewhere in the LibrePlanet universe of wikis?). We would probably have online meetings from time to time (if only to test out voice or video calls). If you're interested, send me a note off-list. Our first task will be...to figure out the collaboration tools we'll use ourselves! Thanks! Jim Garrett Boston area, USA ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] Recommendations for video chat on mobile phone
That's a good point. I do plan to let the developers know about these issues by some means. I understand that Ring is unique in that it is purely peer-to-peer, it doesn't use a central service even to place the call. So it is particularly important that it be improved. Also, the team has solved the problems of handling video and placing calls, so the problem of adjusting audio volume and audio output device must be comparatively trivial. They're so close! Jim On August 10, 2018 2:24:51 AM EDT, bill-auger wrote: >On 08/09/2018 09:56 PM, Jim Garrett wrote: >> These are rather cosmetic issues that I'm >> sure will be resolved in future versions, and I look forward to using >it >> in the future, but in the meantime it's not adequate. > >i would not be so sure - bugs do not fix themselves - the success of >free software depends as much on the participation of the users as of >the developers > >if you would like to see that program working on your phone, then i >highly recommend that you explain the problem on the ring mailing >list[1] so that the ring developers become aware of that particular >problem > > >[1]: https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/ring -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
[libreplanet-discuss] Recommendations for video chat on mobile phone
Hi everyone, I'd like to hear people's recommendations for (Free) video chat software with clients for an Android phone (preferrably software in F-Droid) as well as iPhone (so I can get others with iPhones to chat with me). Criteria: * Uses a protocol for which iPhone and Android clients are available * Free software, or at worst with a permissive license * Supports video chat * Easy to use and performs well I tried GNU Ring and it connected and carried the call, but the audio was very quiet on my phone, and when I plugged in my earbuds the audio didn't switch over to them. These are rather cosmetic issues that I'm sure will be resolved in future versions, and I look forward to using it in the future, but in the meantime it's not adequate. I looked at some XMPP Android clients, but it seems that there are none that support video chat. Am I missing some? I found Linphone, but haven't tried it out (with another person). Are Ring and Linphone the only two mobile phone possibilities? Thanks in advance, -Jim ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
[libreplanet-discuss] Free software: community vs. brand
A few broad thoughts have been coalescing in my mind since LibrePlanet
2018, and I'd like to offer them for whatever use they might have for
anyone. I'm not asking for information or necessarily any response.
I have three main thoughts:
1. The existence of a community compassionately interested in the role
of information and computers in society is a more compelling
argument for Free Software than our software itself. (That's not a
comment on the quality of our software.)
2. The percentage of humanity who has even thought of software as
something that /could/ involve freedom, as we understand it, is
approximately 0%.
3. When I tell people about Free Software, I think they view it within
the framework of a brand choice, which is the wrong frame with which
to start a discussion.
Consequently, I'm going to change my elevator talk to "It's a community
of people interested in the role of information and computing in
society." And if that piques their interest, I'll talk about the four
freedoms and taking control of our computers.
Some observations that have led me to these:
* I didn't truly understand the larger issues around software freedom
before attending LibrePlanet. Seeing the community together and
hearing the discussion occurring within it opened my eyes. I was
expecting a technical conference instead. This year, for the first
time, my wife joined me at LibrePlanet. I think it made an
impression on her, as it had me.
* I proudly wear my GNU hat, and occasionally people ask me what "GNU"
is. I say something like "It's the project for software freedom,"
to which I get a puzzled look. Then I say, "It's the basis of the
operating system that uses the Linux kernel," and they nod and feel
satisfied. I sense that they perceive that I've made an operating
system choice for whatever utilitarian reasons they think people
make such choices, because /they can't yet imagine other reasons/
for choosing software.
o The fact that I work in Cambridge, MA, USA, not far from where
LibrePlanet occurs, and where Free Software began, and that the
person I'm talking to is often with a well-informed PhD
scientist, only underscores how little the message of software
freedom has penetrated mainstream consciousness. (If in fact
PhD scientists are better informed than anyone else, typically.
But no worse-informed, I'd imagine.)
Jim Garrett
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[libreplanet-discuss] Need on-site help in Auburn, Alabama, USA?
Is anyone near Auburn, Alabama (USA) who might be willing to help a fellow GNU/Linux user (for a reasonable fee)? I live in the Boston area and my elderly parents live in Auburn. I set them up with Ubuntu on a laptop a number of years ago; I manage to visit them once per year and do necessary maintenance. This has worked well until now; recently something has happened with the user interface. From my mother's description, it sounds like there is no launcher. We were able to start a shell and I talked her through doing an update but that was pretty painful as her hearing isn't great. This would be so much easier to trouble-shoot in person. If there were a shop that serviced GNU/Linux systems I would happily send them there. If anyone on this list lives near Auburn please drop me a line. Thanks! Jim Garrett ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] [GNU-linux-libre] QTWebengine is nonfree
On 01/22/2017 07:00 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] Would someone here like to make a web page _addressed to non-wizards_ explaining all the flaws in Chromium? We could host it on gnu.org or fsf.org, but someone needs to write it. KDE is important to me and I would love to contribute to this effort in some way. I don't have the technical knowledge, but I'm a pretty good writer and editor, and could certainly represent the non-wizard point of view, being one myself. I suggest that if a technically competent person is willing to craft something, I could review it. If no such person comes forward I could make a draft, gathering information from this thread and probably pestering some of the contributors for clarification. Who at fsf.org or gnu.org would be receiving the file? Jim Garrett
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] Saving up for Laptop, Free Software Discussion
A correction to my previous e-mail: Talos is in fact developing desktop workstations for sale. Sorry for the error! -Jim Garrett
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] Saving up for Laptop, Free Software Discussion
I was thinking along similar lines, except that EOMA68 won't have "real computing power" in the sense that you mean. However, if you need real computing power, set up an account on Amazon. You could install a Free operating system on it, I hope. Granted, you would be running it on someone else's hardware. This would give you more computing power than any laptop, luxury or otherwise. Of course, if your computing power really has to be local, such as processing audio on the fly, this approach won't work. At work, I write and program with Emacs and R running a remote GNU/Linux desktop on a computing cluster. I'm in Cambridge (USA) and the server is in Switzerland. The latency is noticeable, but the computing speed is phenomenal. A EOMA68 laptop might be the last laptop you buy, because every component is replaceable, and the computing core can be upgraded. However, it's my understanding that the design is focused on low wattage, so it will never be a heavy-computing system. Have you read this? https://libreboot.org/faq/#intel All Intel chips since 2008 have Intel Management Engine, including proprietary software, built into the processor. AMD followed soon after. If you're looking at a fully free system with an Intel or AMD chip, that chip is fairly old, so again you won't be getting "real computing power." For real computing power that is fully libre, check out https://www.crowdsupply.com/raptor-computing-systems/talos-secure-workstation but it's not a laptop. And they're not selling individual units yet. Good luck! Jim Garrett Melrose, Massachusetts, USA On 10/25/2016 04:05 PM, Adri S. wrote: I would keep an eye on EOMA68 project. I've bought a micro-desktop for crowdsourcing the idea. https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 1:06 PM, Felix Posselt <felix_poss...@yahoo.de <mailto:felix_poss...@yahoo.de>> wrote: Im not sure if i found the Computer you are talking about, but i found a Laptop with the name Lenovo ThinkPad P70 1. The Bios won't be free. I guess you know. 2. Your workstation seems to have a thunderbolt. I am not sure, but arent these proprietary? 3. Your Graphicscard has an official linux-driver (non-free) and it also seems to have a free Linux driver All in all it seems to be able to run GNU/Linux The questions that remains is, why you would spend that much money on a computer. Unless you do some really extraordinary heavy work on that thing, or plan to run a server for several thousand users, i don't know how a Computer of that price range is going to have an advantage over some consumer high end with an i7 6700K processor. If I found the wrong specs, please give us more details about the machine, and maybe plans on using it. *Von:* Andri Effendi <fusionman...@gmx.de <mailto:fusionman...@gmx.de>> *An:* libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org <mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> *Gesendet:* 16:30 Montag, 24.Oktober 2016 *Betreff:* [libreplanet-discuss] Saving up for Laptop, Free Software Discussion Hello All, Just want to put this idea out there and question for discussion. I am setting this goal that with in the next 3 – 5 years I will have $10,000 AUD saved up to buy a luxury laptop workstation. I want to save up for the absolute best computer that money can buy because I want to have real computing power. :) The computer I am looking at is the Lenovo Think Pad P70, or its future equivalent since I have to save up a lot of money first. I know that by the time that I have saved enough money, there will be a different model available. Now what I want to ask you folks… Assuming I have saved the money needed for this computer, will I be able to run Trisquel or an equivalent fully Free Software OS on it? One thing that sits back in my mind is that WIFI will not work. I don’t want to be dreaming about buying a $10,000 computer if I won’t be able to run Free Software on it. Does anyone have any suggestions or comments? Kind Regards, -- Andri Effendi <fusionman...@gmx.de <mailto:fusionman...@gmx.de>> Organiser of The Free Software Movement in Sydney www.freesoftware.org.au/ <http://www.freesoftware.org.au/> GPG fingerprint: 8438 138D ECDA 05E0 591F F2B4 4721 0F03 AC24 DF73 Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted.
[libreplanet-discuss] Seeking recommendations for virtualization software
I'd like to set up a virtual machine on which to try out GNU/Linux distributions. What software would you recommend to do this, and do you have any advice about configuration? Thanks in advance! Jim Garrett
[libreplanet-discuss] Software Freedom Day
This is very ironic. I've been working on an essay to explain to my family, friends, and colleagues what Free Software is and why I think it's important. It's been awkward because most of them are utterly oblivious to the whole topic (outside my family, that is), so it's challenging to even start a conversation. I've found it very challenging to write. I think three times I completely threw away my draft; I finally completed the fourth. As of September 16th I thought it possible I could complete the essay soon, the 17th or the 18th, and then I saw Georgia's message on the morning of the 17th announcing Software Freedom Day. I had no idea! Sadly, it's just after midnight in my time zone, so I didn't quite publish on SFD. The essay can be found here: https://internetperdition.wordpress.com/2016/09/18/seek-freedom-not-permission/. Perhaps you might see something that might help in discussing Free Software issues with others. Also, I would welcome any thoughts, comments, or factual corrections. Please keep in mind that you are not the target audience. Furthermore I make no claim to explain the Free Software movement's positions (articulated by the FSF or anyone else) in my own words; rather, I'm giving my carefully-considered views, which align substantially with Free Software values, as I understand them. The purpose of this is to help me to be able to look people in the eye and tell them what I believe, and why.. Best regards, Jim Garrett Boston area, Massachusetts, USA
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] EOMA68 - libre software, libre hardware, and eco-friendly too!
The potential availability of Free EOMA68 cards is terrific. I was astounded to learn about Intel ME and the AMD equivalent. Eventually we'll run out of old Intel and AMD chips, and will have to wean ourselves from them, unless we can persuade them to change. I have two technical questions I'm sure people in this community will be able to answer. Obviously you wouldn't be speaking for the designer First, if one got the EOMA68 with the Mali GPU and installed Parabola on it, so that the GPU wouldn't be used, would the system be able to fall back on using the CPU, as in the Libre Tea card? Second, what would be involved with making a laptop based on a EOMA68 but with a large-capacity hard drive (say 250GB or more)? Of course, revising the laptop chassis design to make space for the drive. What about connecting automatically when the EOMA68 card is slipped in, and supplying power? Any idea whether these would be easy or hard issues to manage? Thanks, Jim Garrett
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] Want to publish an ebook under the GPL - what is a good site to publish on?
On 11/04/2015 04:00 AM, Jim Procter wrote: On 04/11/2015 08:12, Andrés Muñiz Piniella wrote: El 4 de noviembre de 2015 05:16:10 GMT+00:00, Koz Ross <koz.r...@retro-freedom.nz> escribió: I want to publish a book, in digital form, which will be licensed GPLv3+. As Andrés said - other copyleft licenses may be more appropriate. Charles Stross' Accelerando is published under an interesting model: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/accelerando/accelerando-intro.html CC-BY-SA may do what you wish, but it may also depend on how you want others to be able to modify and redistribute the work. As for platforms, this might be a good opportunity to survey the range of ebook distribution networks for those that support CC at all levels (this is already common place for non-fiction works, e.g. arxiv). Have fun! j. I can't comment on the best licenses for publishing, but when I think e-books, I think Project Gutenberg. They have their own license and I haven't read it, but it might be worth looking at. Jim Garrett
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] Crowdsourced programming pun
On Oct 22, 2015 4:58 PM, "Zak Rogoff, Free Software Foundation" <z...@fsf.org> wrote: > > On 10/20/2015 07:16 PM, NIIBE Yutaka wrote: > > On 10/21/2015 03:30 AM, Zak Rogoff, Free Software Foundation wrote: > > > The FSF is prepping to launch a tshirt design for this year's > > > LibrePlanet conference, and it's going to include the slogan "fork the > > > system." > > > > Good! > > > > IIRC, around 2012, FSFE sold baby rompers at thier booth; it says: > > "I'm a fork". > > > > > > No, fork(2) doesn't take any argument. So, we need some way to > > represent "the System". > > > > Anyway, in IA-32 assembly (on GNU/Linux): > > > > ... > > b8 78 00 00 00 mov$0x78,%eax > > cd 80int$0x80 > > > Ok, thanks everyone. This was educational from a programming perspective. We'll probably go with a different idea :) > > -- > Zak Rogoff > Campaigns Manager > Free Software Foundation > GnuPG key fingerprint: 6EB2 B137 347E 6F7C DEDC AFF6 82DE 8D64 B509 0AC8 > If "fork" doesn't have any arguments then theSystem.fork() is asking the system to please fork itself. That might be more nihilistic than originally intended, but it works for me! Jim Garrett
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] Gratis software being released as proprietary
Pen-Yuan Hsing, you've done a great service, regardless of ultimate outcome. Now, by responding to your original post, I feel great that I've made a difference helping you make a difference. The Free Software world has its convenience features too. Also, overlaying something on a Google map is available to all, both Free and proprietary. None of the features you mentioned pose any difficulty to Free software, I think. A developer in the Windows world will naturally turn to Windows tools, and a developer in the Free world will turn to Free tools. We just need to get the right people linked in. As a related anecdote, I remember someone coming across a web site that creates bibliographies. She thought this was extremely cool and innovative. I almost couldn't bear to say that the *nix and GNU world has had this in LaTeX and BibTeX for a long time--decades? In fact, it's quite likely the web site was a front end to just that. People often don't know what's out there. If you provide a specific description of the application, and the features that wowed the audience, I'm sure many of us could offer specific ideas of how Free software could apply. And there are probably additional nifty features that could be added easily. In fact, one virtue of giving someone freedom is that they can implement something you never thought of. We can collaborate off-line, on this list, or on a project hosting site as others have mentioned, as you wish. Ultimately a project-hosting site would be the best bet, but maybe your colleagues should be involved in that, otherwise they might feel like you're trying to take control of the project or create a competitor. Somehow we should develop ideas to propose to your colleagues, and then open a project with them. I suggest those of us from this list who are interested let you know, and then we can collaborate off-list by e-mail or other tools. Please include me on the list of people interested. By the way, Excel has issues with numeric calculations. It has for a long time and it still does. It's publicly documented; I can dig up references if you like. I trust it to store data, and add, subtract, multiply, and divide, but nothing beyond that. I have personally been bitten by Excel's issues. Gnumeric, in contrast, is highly accurate, largely because Free software implementing accurate calculation algorithms was available. It probably doesn't affect your colleagues' software because Excel is only storing data. But it's something to be aware of. I'm getting this through the Digest, so if newer posts have yet to reach me, I apologize. Good luck! Jim Garrett
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] Gratis software being released as proprietary
, statistical software that carries out Bayesian analysis. When created, it was the only thing of its kind. It was (and remains) freeware. Initially there was a plan to start charging a fee. It used a license key that was given for free, but the plan was to start charging for the key at some future point that never arrived. Eventually its authors gave up on the idea and said that the key was perpetual. It didn't take long for OpenBUGS to begin, and also JAGS, and so forth, all Free (or close). WinBUGS certainly had (and still has) an impact on the statistics community, so it's not exactly a failure for its intended purpose, but I wonder if its authors now feel that the proprietary route was worth the trouble, since that aspect has come to nothing. It would have been *so much easier* to just put the code on a server. Also, I don't think it's being significantly developed, though I'm not sure. It's sort of a historical blip now. Had it been Free, it would now be dominant in its area. My apologies for a long, long message. I didn't have time to write a short one Good luck! Jim Garrett On 07/30/2015 12:00 PM, libreplanet-discuss-requ...@libreplanet.org wrote: Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 22:27:28 +0100 From: Pen-Yuan Hsing penyuanhs...@gmail.com To: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org Subject: [libreplanet-discuss] Gratis software being released as proprietary Message-ID: caaeprtfqlcfncgtkvhnaqda_trruynphpmr7jwvwwliky7a...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Dear Libreplanet, I believe I am faced with an opportunity to spread the news about Free Software this coming weekend, and would love to get your suggestions on how best to proceed. In a few days, I will be attending an international wildlife conservation meeting, and a group of conservation scientists are scheduled to present a new piece of scientific image management and analyses software specific to certain cases of wildlife surveys and management. To achieve maximum benefit to wildlife conservation, they have committed to continued support and updates for the software, and will release it gratis/free of charge. The problem is that the software will be proprietary! I have yet to meet these scientists in person (but will this weekend), but some common reasons I've heard for not releasing gratis software as Free (as in Freedom) is that they (1) want to make sure all users get our most up to date and definitive version; (2) want to make sure the software is well maintained/taken care of; (3) afraid of their hard work being 'stolen' or misappropriated; and (4) sounds like too much extra work when our resources are already streched so thin. For (4) above, this is especially true for non-profit organisations since their resources truly are very limited, and they are afraid of more burden (I know Free Software is actually liberating, I'm just saying that's what some people are afraid of). For (3), obviously a Free Software license makes sure that the original developer is fully attributed. Even then, I wonder what would be some good responses to (1) through (4)? Also, I don't think Freedom is paramount, nothing else matters is a sufficient catch all response. Another possible problem is that these scientists might have actually hired an outside developer to write this software, and maybe in the hiring contract the developer made the software proprietary? Is this something that might have happened? If so, would these conservation scientists be able to change this? The above (1) to (4) are some responses from them that I can anticipate, but what are some other common concerns about switching to Free Software that I can prepare for? Speaking of which, I wonder if it'll be nice to make a list of such frequently asked questions about Free Software for makers of both gratis and for-sale software? Perhaps it can go on the Libreplanet of FSF websites somewhere? (sorry it it exists, I confess I haven't been to those sites in a while) If the list doesn't exist, how can we work together to compile it? Regardless of your personal opinion on wildlife conservation, I think it is safe to say that these people are very well meaning and sincerely want to do good in this world. They are not greedy/evil corporations who want to control our lives! The problem is many people just don't have the digital literacy (I promise I don't mean this in a condescending way!) to appreciate the issues around software freedom and why they should care... :( So what is a nice and respectful way to bring up this problem, and achieve tangible, positive change? This will be my first time discussing Free Software with someone actively involved in software development (though I've talked to many general end users about it before), so I'd really appreciate any suggestions you have. And sorry about the long message!
Re: [libreplanet-discuss] Hello, and setting up a server
Thanks to everyone for their replies to my question last week. It may be a while before I get a chance to set up a server, but I'll keep your answers in storage, and if I run into problems you might hear from me. If I'm successful I'll document what I did so other non-experts can repeat it. Jim Garrett
