Re: Advice Workplace that Forces Non-Free Software
> The data analysts and my manager primarily > use SPSS, Tableau, and Microsoft products, and other non-free > software. And, when I propose that we use Beamer to produce > professional research posters, as opposed to PowerPoint, or when I > propose LaTeX to write up research reports as opposed to Word, or Git > to maintain a repository of the R and SPSS code, I get shut down, and > even punished. Now all my emails have to go to my manager before I can > send them to the medical doctors, and data analysts. I try to gently > show how great these tools are from a utility perspective, forget the > ethical standpoint, because all I get is "We use Word and PowerPoint. > That is how things are done here." My thought is that you're probably making them feel like you're going to end up making their jobs harder with tools they're not familiar with. They might even be a little jealous/resentful that you can use these fancy tools. Since you've been at it for a while they could also just be burnt out over it at this point. I'd say take your foot off the gas and play ball, focus on making friends first and building up a rapport with everyone. When the time is right you can do advocacy again very calmly and at a snail's pace. Just be prepared for someone being like "Here she goes again with her free software nonsense" because they'll still put you down and fight for the path of least resistance. Hopefully by then those people are the odd ones out. > But now, as I have only been in the biostatistics field of > paper pushing research for less than two years, I fear that if I upset > my manager too much I could easily lose this job (I have been at this > job for less than a year). I am the only biostatistician on this team, > but unfortunately, the team can get away with producing research > papers without understanding the mathematics/statistics, because they > can run some code and there will always be an answer. So, practically > they can do without me. > > I have learned enough statistics within these past two years, on top > of my mathematical background and computational background, that I > feel confident in my knowledge and skills. But, now with the state of > the economy, due to the poor response to the pandemic, there are hiring > freezes at my place of work and many others. Even if I were lucky > enough to pick up another position in this field, who is to say I > will not face the same problems as before. > Yeah, you're not going to be able to make your best moves if you're worried about your job. My vote is to use as much free software as you can get away with and otherwise just don't make waves right now and save up your money. No one knows what things are going to look like a year from now. Make sure you at least have your ground to stand on so you can fight when things play themselves out. > I also do > volunteering where I get to promote Free Software, but again with the > pandemic, those activities have come to a halt. And as a result I > tried pushing for alternative software in the work place, which is > having a the negative outcome I described above. I can definitely empathize with this. I used to go all around the city to promote free software, now I'm just home all the time. It helps that I've found some people I enjoy doing libre things with. I've also picked up some hobbies to keep things interesting in general. You might want to try finding a libre group you enjoy participating in online so you have a more effective outlet for your advocacy energy. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best. Kind Regards, Roberto https://libremiami.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Sacrifices made for Free Software
> > So, here's an opportunity to give a school an alternative to a > > non-Free product and promote Free Software. > > I don't think it is an opportunity for us unless we get retributions. Packback charges $25 per student per class so if the average student takes one class with packback a semester and there are 6,500 students that's over $160k a semester from one uni or maybe close to $400k a year with summer and winter break sections. So there's definitely money there. My idea would be to make the front-end libre, keep the back-end private (it's not proprietary since it's communication logic that's not the user's computing), anything that would be saass gets spun up separately with AGPL and you're charging for access to the platform. You can get sources from within the platform, unless there's open contribution on anything for some reason. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Practicality of GNU project and libre movement (Sagar Acharya : 2)
> > I have had good success withhttps://pencil.evolus.vn/ You know, I ran across that, but it didn't look like what we needed at first glance and the website looks pretty rough so it was probably dismissed a little too quick. I just installed it though and it looks like it could work. The defaults just seem a little off, but I guess more importantly there doesn't seem to be some of the stuff she used for like a website wireframe like boxes with an x across it, rounded corner buttons, and the box with the lines at the bottom right to indicate that it should be a link. I'm seeing that you can add shapes though, can you front me any information on that? Roberto Beltran ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Practicality of GNU project and libre movement (Sagar Acharya : 2)
> I agree though with previous points Free Software has effectively won. > Everybody chooses MIT license nowdays. > The question about next steps for me is: Do we start promoting for a > copyleft world now? > Because as far as I have seens FSF and GNU has been mainly for Free > Software goal up until now. Some things I think need to be worked on now: - free software should be more of a kitchen table issue like climate change or immigration. Not everyone will agree obviously, but everyone should know it's a thing. This takes a lot of awareness campaigning and putting out a distilled message that doesn't use off-putting words (like "control", I say this from experience). - Most tech professionals at least have some idea of open source, but there's also a lot of common misconceptions floating around. Having free software advocates around in borderline proprietary spaces helps a lot. You can be there in the conversation to say "you can't just release the source, it needs a license" or "no, the GPL isn't some scary virus" etc. a lot of stuff isn't malicious, just people not knowing better. - there's already a crazy amount of free software and information out there but it's all kind of scattered online in a way. most people don't enjoy spending a lot of time on the computer learning about things like we do. this is where I think local advocacy groups could be super effective, because they can consolidate the best information for their communities and hand-hold new users until they are walking on their own. they can also do outreach to other local organizations and local governments. - there are also critical areas that don't have particularly good free software. I'm not even talking about how GIMP doesn't have every little feature photoshop has. Like something I ran into was that I met a great UX/UI person that wanted to help out LibreMiami, but we realized there's not really a usable wire-framing tool. How are we going to have better interfaces for free software if I need to make excuses to UX/UI volunteers that the wire-framing software isn't even as good as something google puts out gratis? We can talk about the ideals all day, but if we can't thrive we just look pathetic to most people. There are other critical areas like this where we're not on solid ground. Each likely needs a unique solution. Roberto Beltran ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Practicality of GNU project and libre movement (Sagar Acharya : 2)
> > Most people on here already know how bad things are, but I don't think it's > > black or white win or lose. > > Do we really know how bad things are? Is there a report somewhere > showing, for example adoption in free software, copyleft license and > dependency in proprietary software / noncopyleft software in numbers and > how it has evolved over the time? > > On a side note, do we have success criteria (over achievable stages, not > just disappearance of proprietary software from the world) that we can > use to compare and good metrics to measure the progress of the movement? > Good points > > Either way, you can't control other people or society, what are YOU going > > to do. If what you want is money, go get it. If you want to be completely > > off the grid, you can move to rural South America or something. If you > > really do want everyone to be free, I would say get involved in your > > community and take up posts where you are needed there and in the broader > > free software community. Complaining and preaching to the choir like this > > doesn't accomplish anything. > > I don't know about others, but I find OP's posts as well as some replies > (e.g. Davis Remmel's) informative and useful. I appreciate the on-topic > discussions in this thread. > Okay I'm wrong then. Don't mind me. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Practicality of GNU project and libre movement (Sagar Acharya : 2)
> Becoming a patreon is still donations and relying on others. Well you always rely on others, someone else has the money. What makes what gets typically done on patreon different than other recurring donations is that you are delivering additional value for the subscription. Some examples for software: acknowledgement, access to the developer, status in the community, some say in what features or bugs get prioritized, being able to promote your related service. Many artists use this successfully, and for example many mid-size Youtubers end up making more money having a minority of their fan base on patreon than from ad revenue, especially if what they make isn't particularly ad-friendly. It's not perfect and doesn't make sense for everyone, but that's why there are many other methods listed and I have no doubts there will be more. In general, regardless of ethics, I think it just makes more sense for society to reap the full potential of technology and innovate on business rather than stunt tech innovation to make money the same old way. > Point is GNU is losing. Majority of booting software used is proprietary, > majority of hardware used is backdoored and majority of OSes used are > nonfree. With Google having power over every Android user which it may or may > not choose to exploit, freedom is down in the bins. The sad part about > freedom is if others are not free, then you aren't because you are singled > out from others. If I want to be free, atleast significant size of population > must be free so I can hide or mix among them. Things are becoming even worse > with drones soon to come, SaaSS facilitating control even over hardware of > user's data and softwares, and so much infrastructure of website companies > based on cloud. Most people on here already know how bad things are, but I don't think it's black or white win or lose. Either way, you can't control other people or society, what are YOU going to do. If what you want is money, go get it. If you want to be completely off the grid, you can move to rural South America or something. If you really do want everyone to be free, I would say get involved in your community and take up posts where you are needed there and in the broader free software community. Complaining and preaching to the choir like this doesn't accomplish anything. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Practicality of GNU project and libre movement
> > I don't think these things are mutually exclusive. You can say the most > > correct and right things in the world. > > But if you don't make the person that hears you inspired or happy you > > won't go anywhere. > > I'm not sure this is really true. > > One doesn't generally come out of a (good & thorough) design review > happy - at least not if there are gaps/flaws in your design. If you're > lucky, you might come out ticked at yourself for your own oversight (or > stupidity), and inspired to go "back to the drawing board." > > History suggests that fear is a far more effective motivator than > happiness. Where inspiration fits in depends on the situation & > inspiration (and both survival & fear are great sources of inspiration - > you know, necessity and all that). Paying people, or giving them free > stuff, also works pretty well. > > By contrast, it sure seems like pandering & wishful thinking, are > recipes for disaster (unless you're a politician, in which case, they're > recipes for election). > > Miles Fidelman > Not pointing this only at you Miles, just happened to get you last, but I think we've all more or less said our peace on how to treat people. It's basically just drowning out on-topic discussion at this point. You can all just as easily talk about whether it's better to be nice or scary and when off list ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Practicality of GNU project and libre movement
> Believe me this behavior only makes new folks keep their distance from > software libre. > > That guy just expressed its opinion. No need to be harsh. To be clear, not trying to be harsh. There's nothing shameful with being new and not knowing everything about something. I respect man for putting himself out there like that. Just trying to get him up to speed with what I got on my end, hope others can do the same sans bully. Roberto Beltran ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Practicality of GNU project and libre movement
> Do you just like making a fool of yourself? Or am I missing something? My guess is that he's just relatively new and uninformed Roberto Beltran ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Practicality of GNU project and libre movement
Hey Sagar, > I read "Free as in Freedom" by Richard Stallman and am a strong supporter of > GNU project. I strongly want it to succeed. It's great to be on the same side of the fence, cheers > However, when you keep money away from the free software movement, such a > movement cannot survive against people who actively charge money for binaries > without source code. It has for almost half a century > All power arises from concealment. There are many different types of power, and many ways to conceal things while still at least meeting a minimal ethical standard. > When GNU or libre movement asks contributors or volunteers (both fancy words > for "work for me for free"), you present making libre software as a secondary > thing rather than a central thing. When projects licensed GPLv3 rely almost > completely on "donations" from other, you rely on the donor's generosity for > getting food at your table. I really want people to remove reliance on > external things and make GNU central and very active. This is definitely an active conversation in the broader community. Here's the relevant wiki page: https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Making_money_as_a_libre_software_programmer I also wrote a blog post on the same topic for LibreMiami: https://libremiami.org/how-make-money-with-open-source-projects/ There are other ideas I've come across since. Ultimately business ain't easy, even with proprietary software, and just because someone knows how to code doesn't mean they can sell or come up with a good value prop. It takes the right people taking the right action to make it happen like that. At the same time, some people don't want their free software project to be their central thing. They might have fun working on it, and rather keep it a hobby instead of a job. Nothing wrong with that. > With such a system, when a coder has to choose between working for Microsoft, > Google or GNU projects, I really doubt whether he'll go for GNU. GNU project > is not bigger than survival. That's a false dichotomy and it's not really black and white like that either. I know from previous threads that there are plenty of people on here that do really well for themselves. Personally, I got offered work a few months back from a local nonprofit that does free software projects after I came at them with some ideas. They get their money from Microsoft, among other sources. Most of the time I'm a web dev, and I sleep well at night knowing I help put food on people's tables by getting more business through the door, and I don't really have to step on anyone's freedom to do it. > Having libre hardware(none yet wrt computer), libre booting software(most > hardware is incompatible), libre OS(Done) and libre basic tools(Done) like > compilers and building tools are central for freedom. Applications still can > be proprietary when their ability to exploit can be limited. With the above 4 > things under control of power-hungry people today, I don't see Windows going > away. It's getting worse with smart devices and surveillance devices > everywhere. (I really don't get the point of why a smart fridge is even > required!!) Today, in the worst case scenario, thinking silently is the only > thing one can do without giving your data away. Libre hardware designs aren't really that important to the end user. It's at least not necessary in the same way free software is. I don't think it's acceptable for any applications to be proprietary. Privacy also isn't strictly a free software issue. We need free software for privacy much more often than not, but there are many privacy threats that have little to do with software, or what freedoms we have with it. If privacy is your goal, more power to you, but even people with no concern with their privacy deserve freedom. > GNU project needs to have clear concept of how it will generate funds and > incentivize people(reasonably talented) to create free software and free > hardware and it is not possible with "donations" and "volunteers". It needs > to get money with a significant business and marketing force and needs to > provide an alternative computer with every component libre which can be used > for some purpose like designing (2D graphics with inkscape say). Products can > be cheap with minimal profits but profits must be present. So I don't know much about GNU itself, but if that's how you really feel, I'd get involved with what they're doing and bring something up. The nice thing about free software though is that if you really feel like your idea is good, you can pretty much just go ahead and do it. Nothing is stopping you from investing your own cash to deliver the product you're envisioning. People have done it before with varying degrees of success. This kind of work benefits everyone and you can hire devs. I would say charge whatever will make you the most money. Roberto Beltran ___ librep
Re: Sacrifices made for Free Software
> I studied for 2 years at SIUe before dropping out > because it became impossible for me to continue and keep my freedom. > I don't want to make any assumptions about your financial situation or past education experience or why you were studying, but for others that might be in a similar position, I'm not sure this is a good move. I graduated in 2018 and I've definitely done my share of negotiating with professors and taking small hits to my grade to avoid proprietary software. When it came down to it though, if it was between graduating and freedom, I picked graduating. As a (perhaps broke or indebted) student you have little power. You've tried your best move: organizing your peers, but it seems this was ineffective. I think the next best move is to suck it up for two measly years so you'll be in a position where as a professional: 1) People will generally take you more seriously 2) You'll be in a better negotiating position to get work that that requires less proprietary software and makes more money 3) You'll be in a better position to get work at all, considering how the economy is moving and further if you stay in and can carve out even 2 hours or so a week you can try starting a libre student group. It can be unofficial to start, don't let the bureaucracy spin your wheels (this is where I messed up). You probably won't see the fruit from that tree, but future students might. On the other hand, by dropping out, sure you stop being a victim in the context of your school that I've never heard of, but you're setting yourself up to be more of a victim in society at large where you're spending the rest of your life. Of course people might argue the merits of college education to start with, but I'm operating under the assumption that you've weighed your options and decided college was a good move for you. Best regards, Roberto Beltran ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Libre alternative to google forms
Hey everyone, I help out at my local Code for America Brigade and they're currently receptive to picking up more libre tools. There's a need to have something like google forms to quickly build feedback and user testing surveys without coding. If anyone has any recommendations, it would help set a good precedent for using libre. I know I've been asking for a lot of help lately, and I would like to thank everyone who participates in these discussions. I put everything I learn to good use. Yours, Roberto Beltran https://libremiami.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Whatʼs wrong with with a phone? jmp.chat (was: Buying cryptocurrency for fiat while avoiding nonfree software)
> > > > require a cellphone > > > > > > Whatʼs wrong with a phone? Afaik, SMS is perfectly usable with free > > > programs. > > > > It depends what you mean. There is currently no way to send/receive SMS > > over the cellular network without running non-free software, since all > > cellular baseband chipsets require non-free baseband firmware > > No, I definitely have not meantthat. If nonfree firmwares are haram for you, > then you are stuck somewhere in 70-s. To the best of my knowledge, there is > no SSD or HDD with free firmware on the consumer market, for instance. Iʼve > never heard of a free firmware monitors either, do they exist? No digital > camera. Hardly even an automatic washing machine. If the firmware is read-only (like there isn't some proprietary software for the user or vendor to update it), and it doesn't load proprietary software into a replaceable software part of the machine then it's straight by strictly libre standards. I know at least some SSDs would end up being bad by this standard, but there are very likely monitors, digital cameras and washing machines that are all good. Maybe it's more like stuck in the 90s/2000s. It's funny you bring up washing machines because most people around here have to use a laundromat or shared washing machines for their apartment building, so it would mostly be a concern for building and laundromat owners. I think there's a lot of confusion with this part of libre because maybe people have slightly different opinions, but also because of lack of information about the hardware and people conflating their other interests/goals (privacy, security, etc) with libre. In the case of phones for me personally, the Replicant breakdown of things is confusing for this reason, and on top of it all I don't agree with their version of free hardware and they sprinkle that in too. https://replicant.us/freedom-privacy-security-issues.php But as far as I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know much about this) the modem/baseband and boot firmware is really software (not the sort of firmware that's okay) and is proprietary or it loads proprietary software onto Replicant and at least the boot firmware would have to be present on all fully supported Replicant targets (I think the modem can be disabled but then no data/sms/calls through cell towers). The Librem 5 is probably all good (sans baseband), but it's not like I can get one, for a number of reasons. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Buying cryptocurrency for fiat while avoiding nonfree software (was: VPS providers with libre or no JS)
> To suggest anything useful about currency exchange to you personally, one > have to know where you are from and what means of payment (besides cash) you > have at disposal or consider acceptable. > Miami, FL, USA. I have bank accounts, cards, I can probably get checks or money orders. I just got this idea that it'd be chill if there was a company that could bill a landline for crypto, although that might be too easily abused. > For instance, “Perfect Money”¹ — a popular in cryptoexchange as an > intermediate step parabank, which, among others, accepts deposits via wire > transfer², is a service of the first type in my ad-hoc classification: i. e. > their website is somewhat usable without nonfree software for legacy reasons. > > But, as I heard, banks of some countries are not happy to work with them > (this info may be outdated, though). > > > ¹ Yet another referral link: https://perfectmoney.com/signup.html?ref=2815928 > ² Wire transfer is slow, of course, and requires passing through cumbersome > (though EU residents might consider it normal) deanonymization process. > Yeah I'm realizing now wires are kind of pricey too. With the fees I'd be paying, I might as well try and get someone to front me. > > I've only ever bought crypto in person for cash. > > So far I've only seen proprietary apps, the ATMs > > that require a cellphone > > Whatʼs wrong with a phone? Afaik, SMS is perfectly usable with free programs. Proprietary firmware. I've been no phone for the last year or so, but it's also not 100% because of libre if I'm being real. https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Going_NoPhone I'm getting into JMP.chat and figured out some other tools for working with QR codes and stuff, so I might be able to find work-arounds for the ATMs once COVID-19 is over. I might also mess with the replicant devices for fun eventually. But yeah, anyway, the only spots right now that'd be open with the ATMs I'm not really trying to be whipping out the thinkpad at. > > (By the way, does it mean that you had managed to exchange currency in person > without giving the seller your phone? Not to say thatʼs something unlikely, > just curious.) > Yeah, you just find a homie trying to sell, you put money on the table, give them your address or let them scan the QR code off your laptop or whatever and then you both chitchat and smoke a square or something while you wait for confirms. > > and websites with proprietary JavaScript > > Look whether these exchangers have a Telegram bot besides a website. (The > Telegram network is proprietary, but even their official client is free.) > Quite a few do. I might be cool using telegram client if I can buy like that, let me know what's good ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: VPS providers with libre or no JS
> > Just gotta figure out how to get enough crypto without being able to meet > > up with anyone > > Should not it be the other way round? > > I mean, does not buying BTC by meeting anyone in person become an option only > up from some amount (e. g., in St. Petersburg: about 100 krub ≈ 1250 euros), > and in general is cumbersome and impractical (unless you need extra > protection from tracking, of course), while buying online is easy, available > instantly and from nearly any sensible amount? > Oh, I meant like without proprietary JS. If you have any recommendations for that it would definitely help out. I've only ever bought crypto in person for cash. So far I've only seen proprietary apps, the ATMs that require a cellphone and websites with proprietary JavaScript as alternatives. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: VPS providers with libre or no JS
> A newish provider is https://capsul.org/ which is run by volunteers of > https://cyberia.org. Payment options include cryptocurrencies and cash. > This is probably the pick right now. One of the cyberia people dropped into the LibreMiami matrix room, and it looks like they even support Guix system now. Just gotta figure out how to get enough crypto without being able to meet up with anyone hahah but they're also working out other payment methods apparently. Roberto ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: VPS providers with libre or no JS
> I have a server at home and also a VPS at prgmr.com. Sysadmin tasks external > to your Linux or BSD VM itself are accomplished via a TTY over SSH to access > their minimal proprietary dashboard running on a Xen server. I assume that > would be acceptable to you because you're not running their code locally on > your machine. > > Their BILLING web site does not function at all with JavaScript disabled; it > seems to be a service provided by a third party, with one or two maybe-free > JavaScript libraries missing any license metadata, and a local "app.js" that > has no license metadata. Yeah! prgmr.com definitely seemed like a good option until I hit the payment section. > > Perhaps you can work out an agreement with them to avoid using the Billing > dashboard. It's worth emailing their sales people to ask "Can you fix these > issues, or can I be a customer without ever using your billing dashboard?" -- > they're a small operation and very responsive. If I recall correctly, it is > possible to pay via paper check or money order, but paying via credit card is > probably impossible without a third party payment portal with non-free JS. > Good point, I'll hit them up if it comes to that > I put the bug in their ear just now in their public chat room, about fixing > the license issues with their billing dashboard javascript. Staff hasn't > responded yet in that context but it wasn't long ago that I started the > conversation. > > Good luck. That's awesome! Thank you so much! Roberto ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: VPS providers with libre or no JS
> sdf is as close to sovereign as you will get of any option practical for you, > since it is membership in a collective. > Ah, it took me a second look to find the VPS info. It's impressive how much stuff and history they have. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: VPS providers with libre or no JS
> > I'm trying to run instances of stuff (like nextcloud, searx, matrix, > > whatever) and maybe roll out some original stuff, but I don't think > > running something out of where I live right now is an option > > Why? Running a VPS is a non-sovereign path. > Post-pandemic I'll be moving and traveling relatively frequently. I'm going to be living in small places, and I'll likely forego having internet at home, at least for a while. I'd also rather not do an amateur job of setting up a server and risk messing something up that compromises my privacy. Whether anyone agrees these are legit concerns or not, if there might be some conceivable legit concern, then it would make sense for us to have this information somewhere for freedom's sake and I couldn't find any. I agree I'd rather have some servers fully under our control at some point, and I have some ideas for that in the future, but I rather just keep the ball rolling for now. Roberto ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: VPS providers with libre or no JS
> Do you really need a VPS, or is self-hosting an option? I'm trying to run instances of stuff (like nextcloud, searx, matrix, whatever) and maybe roll out some original stuff, but I don't think running something out of where I live right now is an option > There are lots of cloud companies using Proxmox, but they are usually small > businesses and hard to find. Ah, lame > If you have an IX near you, try to talk to people close to that. They’re > usually involved with data center services, including hosting. Oh sweet, there's a few actually. I'll have to look into that for sure, thanks - Roberto ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
VPS providers with libre or no JS
Hey libre people, Does anyone know any VPS providers that don't require using proprietary JavaScript? Kind Regards, Roberto libremiami.org ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Finding ethical online service providers
> Does that mean the recommendation about avoiding > unethical governments is secondary to other issues such as an > organizational commitment to user privacy and software freedom rights? It may not be secondary but it's a separate concern. Perhaps you're not concerned with surveillance from the United States but you are of some other country, like China. > I currently use multiple [Disroot][] services. I am satisfied with > their quality, ethics and cost-effectiveness (they ask for modest > donations), but they are based on the Netherlands -- within the Nine > Eyes[1]. Should I change to [Kolab Now][] for email, addressbook, > calendar and Nextcloud services? It is well recommended by the FSF, is > located on [Switzerland][] -- outside the Fourteen Eyes -- and charges a > reasonable price. > > [Disroot]: https://disroot.org/ > [Kolab Now]: https://kolabnow.com/ > [Switzerland]: https://protonmail.com/blog/switzerland/ > > However, it would be a lot of work to tell all my contacts that my email > address changed again (as I recently migrated from Gmail to Disroot); to > change all my numerous mailing list subscriptions and online accounts to > the new email address; and reconfigure my email setup. Besides, Disroot > provides more services for the same suggested price. I would say, unless you have some actual concerns about Nine Eyes (like you have a specific reason to stay off their radar), stick with what you have. And if that were the case, your email provider choice isn't really going to save you anyway. Presumably, you're going to contact someone that has a provider that gets spied on by Nine Eyes at some point. You would also need much more secure communication than email to even stand and underdog's chance in 2020. Life is too short to stress about something like that just because. > Furthermore, > should I believe Switzerland has no secret agreement with the Fourteen > Eyes? After all, despite the heroic effort of Snowden, we only know > about a small part of our surveillance predicament. And should I > believe that Switzerland privacy advantages will last? I don't want to > change providers again next year. > > Also for social networks (GNU Social, Mastodon and diaspora*) should I > insist that the provider is outside the Fourteen Eyes? I would say don't stress it too much. Again, even if you were to do all that, I'm guessing you spend a considerable amount of time around people with cell phones. On the other hand, I think it would be cool to see more services out of Brazil. Kind Regards, Roberto Beltran https://libremiami.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Campaign to boycott Facebook
>I also made the tactical choice to not for Free Software specifically, for which I'm sure many here will be disappointed. Although you likely need to use proprietary JS to sign up for a Facebook account at this point, if you have an account I think it's usable without proprietary software. There are plenty of reasons not to use Facebook and I don't, but you can be a speerfie and still use it/be used by it if you block proprietary JS or use a libre client. In short, rejecting Facebook isn't necessarily a free software issue to begin with so it's all good. Roberto Beltran https://libremiami.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
I made no mention of source code in any of my original positions. Source code == Cornerstone of FSF. If you're not advocating for free source code then what are you advocating for? User autonomy in 1, human virtue in 3. The cornerstone of the FSF is user freedom. - Roberto Beltran [1]https://libremiami.org/ References 1. https://libremiami.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
Okay cool, that's more like it. I'll discard 2 because like I said I'm not a fan of that perspective. With regards to the deontological perspective, the point is exactly that you may have your intended purpose in creating the tool, but the user has their own. You have your ends and the user has his. It might be as trivial as the three year old doesn't like the color of the numbers. Of course a three year old isn't going to be able to do much with the source code, but neither are most people. The toddler would rely on his caretakers like the rest of us rely on our community. I don't see anything that specifically tries to rebut my virtue ethics position. I object to your premise that not providing source code necessarily restricts users. And if the premise is faulty then anything based upon it needs to find a new premise to base itself on. I made no mention of source code in any of my original positions. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
> Labeling people and giving them various identifications is for me not > well mannered. I'm sorry to offend your sensibilities on the matter then. I don't think we see things that way where I am from. > Hypothetical cases: > > Somebody may not know anything about the free software, but would like > to reject proprietary software, maybe some specific proprietary > software like WhatsApp due to its security flows -- but is this person > free software supporter or security aware person? The category of persons I would like to describe would include people that broadly reject proprietary software because of security concerns but not someone that just rejects some proprietary software because because of specific security concerns with those programs. > In general, it is better to let people identify how they wish, instead > of labeling them, and coercing certain type of identification on > people. Agreed. I wish to self-identify as being part of the category that I'm describing but I have no such word that I like except maybe "speerfie" now that I've started the thread. I'm guessing there may be others like me. If no one has any more ideas, I'll start advertising speerfie and you will be hearing it back in a few months. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
> One thing I would like to point out is that all software developers are also > software users, so when the choose to subjugate people by developing > proprietary software, they also support a system of subjugating themselves to > proprietary software. Good one, I'll keep that in mind. - Roberto Beltran https://libremiami.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
Let me comment on the three perspectives you discuss: 1. "the user uses his software as a tool to further his own ends, if you remove his agency in using his tool for your own ends ..." The user's own ends are not usually inspection of source code. If I build a game to teach 3 year olds math, and it works for its intended purpose, then hooray! Three year olds (the users) don't need to see the source code and the developer is not immoral strictly on account of not giving away his intellectual property. 2. "free software is generally going to create more utility than proprietary software, considering how the user is mistreated ... therefore proprietary software is unethical."I don't believe this conclusion was sufficiently motivated by your reasoning in this case. 3. "Looking at how we use software as a tool, if we restrict users ... " Objection again. Not disclosing source code to a three year old learning a skill via computer is not immoral. Ethics and morals are supposedly universal truths and thus must apply universally, hence my attempt to use a limiting case. Source code has nothing to do with the intended purpose of a learning application which purpose is to teach addition of small integers, for example. There are other args for releasing code (community review builds trust and confidence), but it does not necessarily reduce the effectiveness of the software, nor render people "pathetic". Okay cool, that's more like it. I'll discard 2 because like I said I'm not a fan of that perspective. With regards to the deontological perspective, the point is exactly that you may have your intended purpose in creating the tool, but the user has their own. You have your ends and the user has his. It might be as trivial as the three year old doesn't like the color of the numbers. Of course a three year old isn't going to be able to do much with the source code, but neither are most people. The toddler would rely on his caretakers like the rest of us rely on our community. I don't see anything that specifically tries to rebut my virtue ethics position. - Roberto Beltran [1]https://libremiami.org/ References 1. https://libremiami.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
> I personally identify as a freetard. Based, but I feel like most would take issue with that. I'm not really trying to do that in particular. - Roberto Beltran https://libremiami.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
> I'm not sure we need a word like vegan. I mean, being a vegan can be > problematic from a number of perspectives that would be more equivalent its > more like someone like RMS who doesn't have a face book account, only uses a > computer with a free -bios, has no java script turned on all the time, would > rather get lost for days rather than use proprietary gps etc. So for the label I would want to include people regardless of how hardcore they are. I'll flex real quick right now and say that I don't have a facebook account, I'm writing this on a computer with libreboot, and I don't have a cellphone or use GPS. I acknowledge that I'm privileged to be able to do all this though. > Ironically, a lot of people like the Amish and people in the third world > might fall into this category, not because they know and care about software, > but because they either don't have or don't want access to it to begin with For the label I wouldn't include people who unintentionally don't use any proprietary software, or as a side-effect of rejecting technology overall. However if they get word about the idea of rejecting proprietary software (which could happen as an effect of learning that the label exists) and agree with it then yeah they would be a speerfie or something from then on. - Roberto Beltran https://libremiami.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
Thanks Roberto, you did not disappoint :) np hahah > Moral arguments with respect to software are vaccous. What are your reasons for being on this list? Free software developer for over 20 years. Occasional FSF/FSFE paying member. FLOSS advocate since long before the term "FLOSS" (which I don't like), circa 2005. Why did you do all these things? There are plenty of good reasons to develop GLP'd or software without the ethics argument, is my point. I agree, I'm wondering what motivates you in particular. I'm not saying I agree with the communist perspective, but I do think there are ethical reasons for not producing and for rejecting proprietary software. Go ahead, explain the ethical reasons, or better, the immorality of proprietary software and how libre software is somehow moral. So there's three main schools of ethics, deontological, consequensialist, and virtue ethics. I kind of suck at building out Kant, but for deontological the argument might be something like: the user uses his software as a tool to further his own ends, if you remove his agency in using his tool for your own ends you are using him as mere means breaking the categorical imperative, therefore unethical. I don't think that's an empty argument. For consequential, I don't really like this perspective but it might be true. That goes something like: free software is generally going to create more utility than proprietary software, considering how the user is mistreated, how vendor lock-in affects whole industries, etc. etc. vs profits for the company and the marginal utility of the proprietary software vs a free version of the same thing if it already exists, therefore proprietary software is unethical. Again, not really a fan of this one, but I don't think it's empty. I like virtue ethics and I like rolling my own, and I came up with this perspective: Really there is something fundamentally human about using tools, just like speaking and walking upright. We use tools, adapt them to our needs and disseminate them through our community. That's part of how we've been so successful as a species, particularly over neanderthal. Looking at how we use software as a tool, if we restrict users as is done with proprietary software, we are attacking an essential part of their humanity, making them pathetic, so we shouldn't do that. Also as users, if we are really excellent, we would be able to stop others from making us pathetic by rejecting attempts to mistreat us in this way. These arguments lay all the responsibility at the feet of business, Not true, I just built it out like that for the first two. With consequential, you could say that using proprietary software in general creates less utility than using free software for similar reasons. With deontological its a little harder, but it would be about contributing to systems which treat people as mere means. That really does take you off the deep end though. I described the responsibility of users within the perspective I came up with. Maybe I just neglected to say that we have an ethical imperative to be good people that strive for excellence. There is room within my perspective to consider circumstance though, both for the software proprietor and the user. No matter how you cut it though the developer of the software (doesn't matter if it's a business or not) is the one with the agency to make the software proprietary or free. They are ultimately the one with the ethical decision to make. but every android cellphone contract comes with full disclosure of the "abuses" that the client will incur, and the client signs-away their privacy without coersion. People have different levels of privilege in being able to refuse such things. Again, I agree users should take some responsibility, but putting them in that situation is the prior injustice. Philosophy at the level you touch on is borderline religion, and religion is beyond-borderline polarizing. I think moral and ethical arguments only serve to alienate, and they are not needed in order to advocate for libre software, If someone uses some ethical school of thought for action guidance (even some of the time) then you'd serve them well showing them how free software fits within what they already believe. I agree that some kind of rhetoric is generally more effective though. For example, having some label that people can self-identify with and feel like their a part of a group and the social proof that goes along with that. At the same time, people will fight you. If you know the reason you are doing something all the way up through metaphysics like all the schools ethical thought enable you to do it helps. Again, you still need good rhetoric. By the way, I've actually come up wi
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
It occurred to me that there isn't really a good one-word way of describing someone who rejects proprietary software on ethical grounds. For example there's "vegan" for people who don't consume animal products on ethical grounds. I know there is a derogatory term that exists, and another which is specific to someone who agrees with RMS, but there is no general positive term that we could all use. Even a short phrase seems difficult because you could say "free software advocate" but you can reject proprietary software on ethical grounds without doing any advocacy. How about "speerfie"? That's "s" for software and "p" for person tacked on to "free" spelt backward, then "ie" at the end as in "freebie". Or just "peerfie"? Or maybe "freeps" = free software person? I like how cute all your names sound. "Speerfie" gets better the more you say it I think ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
What do you think of 'libran'? It's concise, but not entirely clear unless you're familiar with free/libre software. It does emphasize the belief in the user's freedom by saying specifically libre, and is familar-sounding to most people because of its (very strong) similarity to vegan. I think libran might be okay, but it feels a bit odd to me. I think it also means someone who is a libra or some libra quality, like the astrological sign. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
> Moral arguments with respect to software are vaccous. What are your reasons for being on this list? Free software developer for over 20 years. Occasional FSF/FSFE paying member. FLOSS advocate since long before the term "FLOSS" (which I don't like), circa 2005. Why did you do all these things? I'm not saying I agree with the communist perspective, but I do think there are ethical reasons for not producing and for rejecting proprietary software. Go ahead, explain the ethical reasons, or better, the immorality of proprietary software and how libre software is somehow moral. So there's three main schools of ethics, deontological, consequensialist, and virtue ethics. I kind of suck at building out Kant, but for deontological the argument might be something like: the user uses his software as a tool to further his own ends, if you remove his agency in using his tool for your own ends you are using him as mere means breaking the categorical imperative, therefore unethical. I don't think that's an empty argument. For consequential, I don't really like this perspective but it might be true. That goes something like: free software is generally going to create more utility than proprietary software, considering how the user is mistreated, how vendor lock-in affects whole industries, etc. etc. vs profits for the company and the marginal utility of the proprietary software vs a free version of the same thing if it already exists, therefore proprietary software is unethical. Again, not really a fan of this one, but I don't think it's empty. I like virtue ethics and I like rolling my own, and I came up with this perspective: Really there is something fundamentally human about using tools, just like speaking and walking upright. We use tools, adapt them to our needs and disseminate them through our community. That's part of how we've been so successful as a species, particularly over neanderthal. Looking at how we use software as a tool, if we restrict users as is done with proprietary software, we are attacking an essential part of their humanity, making them pathetic, so we shouldn't do that. Also as users, if we are really excellent, we would be able to stop others from making us pathetic by rejecting attempts to mistreat us in this way. Would you please help me come up with a cool new name for ourselves? ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
> one word to describe someone who rejects proprietary software? > > I have a few > clever > genius > wise You could be a slow stupid fool and just happen to reject proprietary software on principle because your friends are doing it too. Still helps our cause. > i don't think it's useful to try to create such a single word noun > though I'm saying it would be useful to me, please help ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
> Moral arguments with respect to software are vaccous. What are your reasons for being on this list? I'm not saying I agree with the communist perspective, but I do think there are ethical reasons for not producing and for rejecting proprietary software. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
> It seems to me that the root of the free software movement is not... You have described your reasons for rejecting proprietary software, but there are many. I think it's important to find a unifying term for someone who rejects proprietary software on principle, regardless of underlying reasons. It would help with marketing and campaigns. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
> I've heard "freegan", which carries with it all the work vegans have done to > market their cause, so that "freegan" gives an instant recognition to our > cause too. That would be great if not for "freegan" already being in use for something else: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeganism > I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot of overlap between the two groups. I really think there might be too. I should go to vegan events to promote hahah --Roberto. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
So what you're suggesting is... We identify as "freegan"? :P lol bro I wish, but I think that already means someone that eats trash or something "Libre software" subtracts the ambiguity problem and trades it for the problem of being a mouthful for English-only speakers, with its awkward-to-pronounce loanword. "Libreware" still has the problem I'm lucky that I'm in Miami where there's enough of a Latin presence that I can usually get away with "Libre Software." In fact, I think I might start using "libreware"... thanks! With regards to awkward pronunciation though, people will sometimes hear "libra" or "livre", but that might just be me mumbling a bit sometimes. My favorite solution overall is "freedomware". I like this idea. I personally like the libre terminology because of what I mentioned prior, but I think for the rest of the U.S.A. "freedomware" would work great. Although at the same time, I've had experiences in real life where I'm bringing up "libre" or "freedom" and people still can't get past thinking about price without some more help. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
One word label for someone who rejects proprietary software
Hey everyone, It occurred to me that there isn't really a good one-word way of describing someone who rejects proprietary software on ethical grounds. For example there's "vegan" for people who don't consume animal products on ethical grounds. I know there is a derogatory term that exists, and another which is specific to someone who agrees with RMS, but there is no general positive term that we could all use. Even a short phrase seems difficult because you could say "free software advocate" but you can reject proprietary software on ethical grounds without doing any advocacy. I think this would be good so people can self-identify, and it might help bring the idea into common thought. If anyone has any ideas, please share. Kind Regards, Roberto Beltran [1]https://libremiami.org/ References 1. https://libremiami.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: libreboot installfest at Libre Planet 2020
I talked with some people at the libre boot IRC. They told me something about my computer that I didn't know. I'm suppose to change a chip on my computer. I'm guessing you maybe have the x200t or x200s? I don't live in the US, so I was hopping someone interested on helping us could receive the chip for me and bring it to the event. Where you coming from? I believe the first thing would be to have volunteers. I taking that you, Roberto Beltran, would be one of them? Volunteer for what exactly? My self, I'll be bringing BeagleBone Black, Clip for connecting to the flash chip (8 pins), and Pin header / jumper cables. I'll bring some stuff I have too. > Micro hdmi to hdmi adaptor I can bring this ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: libreboot installfest at Libre Planet 2020
> could ask the libre planet organizers to have a some what of a libreboot > hopefully it will start interest on the matter I would be interested in attending a libreboot talk, workshop or side-event too. Roberto Beltran libremiami.org ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Free licensing of surveillance software
> > The software is being used ON the surveilled. The surveilled are not users > > of the software. > If I go to the library and return a book by opening a custom application > on my device, do I "use" that software? It's software on your device it is your computing so you should have the four freedoms. > And if instead I need to tap or > click on some graphical interface on a library computer? Library is a bad example because since it's publicly funded I would argue that they should primarily have free software. Let's say it's a private cybercafe. You pay for time on their computers to do some thing, and that's your computing, but it's not your computer. You shouldn't have agency over the software on this business' computers. You might have concerns over privacy and the like, but the business could snoop on what you are doing on these machines even if they had all libre software. There would need to be a law that says cybercafe's can't collect data from their patron's computer usage. > And if I just > scan a barcode at a machine? Barcode machine might not even have software in it. If it does have software it should be free software for the library's sake directly, and for the public's sake indirectly like I mentioned before. It's interesting you bring up the library because even before software at libraries was widespread, I'm pretty sure either through law or policy or a code of ethics, they don't share the information of what people checkout of the library or read with anyone. I took a class with someone that was a librarian once and he said something to that effect. For privacy's sake I would say it's better to push for them to uphold that. Free software plays a role in that, but both are important as distinct issues. > And if I don't even need to do that? Then I guess you just don't do anything fam > Similarly, with a software-powered doorbell: my goal is to get (myself > or something else) past the door. Does it matter whether I press a > button? Whether I have knowledge that the button executes some software? > Whether the software runs just when I walk in? If it's not your doorbell you don't have agency over what it does and you shouldn't. Whether free software or proprietary software on the doorbell or a physical sensor and circuit that activates a camera as you come in, it's someone else's property on their private property, perhaps surveilling public space. We might have privacy concerns, but the only thing I see addressing something like that would be laws. Using a license to try to address this issue would be bad for freedom and the free software community and wouldn't be effective in solving the problem. > (Also, at what point is it SaaSS and at what point "the computing isn't > your own activity" or "you are not doing your own computing", per > https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.en.html?) SaaSS is its own monster, I would love to flesh SaaSS out more at LibrePlanet with anyone that's down, because I agree it can get confusing and nuanced and I don't have a good grasp on it myself. I'm not trying to go down that rabbit hole now though. It's not directly relevant to this conversation as pointed out in bold in the beginning of what you linked: > On the Internet, proprietary software isn't the only way to lose > your freedom. Service as a Software Substitute, or SaaSS, is > **ANOTHER** way to give someone else power over your computing. It's a related but distinct issue to libre vs proprietary software. Roberto Beltran https://libremiami.org ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Request Advice for Work Meeting on Why use GNU+Linux
Hey Crista, Thanks so much for following up with us. I find your goal admirable. I'm sure we would all like you to continue sharing your experience, so we can learn from it and help where we can in the achievement of your goal. Also, respect for liking Star Trek. Free the Future, Roberto Beltran https://libremiami.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Request Advice for Work Meeting on Why use GNU+Linux
> - Engineer concerns about support, not so much security, as we can lock it > down - Ethics of allowing a machine with patient data outside enterprise standards and support. It looks like the main reservation is ITs inability to support desktop/laptop GNU systems. I don't think they can be blamed for this because you can't know everything out here, but there should be some way to address this. Roberto Beltran https://libremiami.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Free licensing of surveillance software
> I put a camera inside my house so that I can see who is in the house when my > family is not home. Kim robs the house, and the camera records him robbing > the house. Is there a software license that gives Kim the right to obtain the > source code to the camera software? Okay I think I understand better now. If such a license were to exist I argue it would be proprietary for violating freedom 0 because, as Aaron Wolf aptly puts "the goal is to just limit the software anyone can use as part of surveillance software". Also quoting the free software definition: "The freedom to run the program means the freedom for any kind of person or organization to use it on any kind of computer system, for any kind of overall job and purpose, without being required to communicate about it with the developer or any other specific entity." I think a victim of surveillance would count as another specific entity The software is being used ON the surveilled. The surveilled are not users of the software. A surveilled person deserves agency over the surveillance software no more than one would deserve agency over their mechanic's tools or the software their accountant uses. To reduce this into further absurdity, if I use the surveillance software to watch over a plant, does the plant deserve the four freedoms? Mass surveillance is a important issue to tackle, but I think it would be unwise to sacrifice software freedom to tackle it and legitimize a proprietary license for this purpose. This especially since it doesn't even really solve the problem. I agree with Aaron that getting laws on the books may be the best way to fight mass surveillance. Kind Regards, Roberto Beltran https://libremiami.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Free licensing of surveillance software
I've sent this yesterday but neglected to hit reply all hahah: Hey Fritz, Could you elaborate more or present other examples? I only see three distinct possibilities with surveillance software: 1. The software is libre and has surveillance 2. The software is proprietary and has surveillance 3. Surveillance software is being used on someone, but it's not their computing In the first case, the surveillance anti-features can be removed. In the second, you should just not use that software if you can help it. I'm guessing it's the third case you are trying to address, but having the source code in this case helps nothing because you likely are not able to replicate this other person's computing (or more exactly the service they are providing). If you can then it's SaaSS and you should avoid it. Additionally, I see issues with what you are proposing and freedom 0 and the privacy of the user's computing. There are legitimate forms of surveillance, like to watch over your property. I think surveillance is much better addressed through legislation, since it's not strictly a software freedom issue (though there is intersection). Kind Regards, Roberto Beltran https://libremiami.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Request Advice for Work Meeting on Why use GNU+Linux
Hey Lily, I'd keep away from technical arguments since IT will lap you just like you'd lap them in statistics. I would keep focus on that the goal of the hospital is patient care and that your intention is to do your best work possible and you would do your best work on a laptop/computer with GNU/Linux natively installed, period. Maybe what IT is proposing sounds and would be overly-complicated/cumbersome for you and get in the way of your work. Ultimately, it's ITs duty/role to support the hospitals mission, and security and management needs to adapt to the hospitals needs, not the other way around. Plenty of companies, nonprofits, governments, universities, etc. support GNU/Linux no problem. You can probably flower up my language a bit so it fits better, but I would say it's important to be a little firm and not cave. Keep the ball in your court. I hope that helped and I wish you the best of luck. I find it admirable that you're taking a stand for freedom. Yours, Roberto Beltran https://libremiami.org/ ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 3:49 AM, lily via libreplanet-discuss wrote: > Hello All! > > I have a last minute question on how to prepare for a meeting tomorrow > Tuesday 2pm Pacific Standard time. PLEASE RESPOND SOON! > > I work as a biostatistician for a hospital and when I started working > there I requested a computer with a GNU+Linux OS. My request was > promptly denied, because IT said they simply do not support Unix. > > But TOMORROW, there will be a meeting with the following objective: > Discuss request for Providing a GNU+Linux operating system for a > > caregiver that will be using statistical software. > > The Principle IT engineer wrote this email in anticipation of the > meeting: > > Greetings, I have passed information about this meeting to the manager > > of the Unix Server Operations team in case he wants to get anyone > > involved. I am also very concerned about the management and security > > of such a one off device. Given the network nature of Unix/Linux is > > there any reason that a Linux client server couldn't be provided > > instead with an X Windows Server provided on the Windows laptop to > > connect and utilize software that is installed (and hopefully managed) > > on the server? While this is overkill for a single user I suspect > > that there are a lot more users in the various informatics departments > > that might welcome such a service. I hope this helps stir up some > > ideas. > > Principle IT Engineer > > My background is in mathematics/statistics, but I am a supporter of > Free Software because of all the good reasons why Free Software is > what it is. I do not have any technical background with regard to > servers, server client, network, etc and so I feel I will struggle > with explaining why I made this request, why I think this is a good OS > for serving our patients, and why it would be good for the long run to > support GNU+Linux OS computers. > > My question for the Libre community is: How do I present my case for > > tomorrow to explain why it is beneficial for IT at this hospital to have > support > > caregivers that wish to work on a computer with a GNU+Linux OS? > > Please help! > > Thank you! > > Crista Hello All! > > I have a last minute question on how to prepare for a meeting tomorrow > > Tuesday 2pm Pacific Standard time. PLEASE RESPOND SOON! > > I work as a biostatistician for a hospital and when I started working > > there I requested a computer with a GNU+Linux OS. My request was > > promptly denied, because IT said they simply do not support Unix. > > But TOMORROW, there will be a meeting with the following objective: > > Discuss request for Providing a GNU+Linux operating system for a > > caregiver that will be using statistical software. > > The Principle IT engineer wrote this email in anticipation of the > > meeting: > > Greetings, I have passed information about this meeting to the manager > > of the Unix Server Operations team in case he wants to get anyone > > involved. I am also very concerned about the management and security > > of such a one off device. Given the network nature of Unix/Linux is > > there any reason that a Linux client server couldn't be provided > > instead with an X Windows Server provided on the Windows laptop to > > connect and utilize software that is installed (and hopefully managed) > > on the server? While this is overkill for a single user I suspect > > that there are a lot more users in the various informatics departments > > that might welcome such a service. I hope this helps stir up some > > ideas. > > Principle IT Engineer > > My background is in mathematics/statistics, but I am a supporter of > > Free Software because of all the good reasons why Free Software is > > what it is. I do not have any technical background with regard to > > servers, server client, network, etc and so I feel I will struggle > > with explaining why I made this request, why I think
Cameras without freedom issues
Hello all, Would anyone be able to make specific recommendations for digital photographic cameras that don't have replaceable firmware? One should also be able to get the pictures out without proprietary software. Roberto Beltran ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Libre web front-end
> Sure. The absolutely necessary operations that the users cannot be do > themselves must unavoidably be on the server. But the game can in fact > be operated on the users' machines. I don't know this because Mary-Anne hasn't disclosed the details of her game. If it can be all operated on the users' machines, then it's still okay for it to be a browser game if it's all front-end code with a free license. My only and initial point is that there is no freedom reason to insist that the game not be a browser game at all. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Libre web front-end
> If the code is not released, it is not under the control of the user. > Service as a Software Substitute (SaaSS) is a risk. Even if the code is released it's still not under the control of the "user" if you mean the gamer. The actual user of the back-end software is the server operator. There is no ethical basis for the gamer having control over the server (someone else's computer). I agree that SaaSS is bad, but if the back-end is a service that is not a software substitute, then there is no issue from a strictly freedom standpoint. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Libre web front-end
> Even though browsers are a very useful tool for distributing > applications without the need to install them locally, they are also a > risk for users to lose their freedom, since they can use nonfree > software. And even if the software (JavaScript) is released as free > software, it is not under their control because it is on the server, not > on the client. There are plenty of libre browsers and if the game is either all front-end or uses backend as a service (playing with other people for example) then there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, she not under an ethical obligation to release the back-end code in that case (though it would be nice/cool). ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Does anyone know where to buy TLDs without proprietary javascript
Hey everyone, I'd like to buy a domain name or two and I was wondering if anyone knew where to get these without using proprietary JavaScript. Roberto Beltran ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Exciting new changes for the LibrePlanet Wiki
> My suggestion is to make comments here in the list Okay, I think the headings for the articles should be left-aligned and not have the prefix (User, Group, etc.). If that information needs to be displayed, maybe have it after in parenthesis like "Valessio (User)" or "LibrePlanet Boston (Group)" Also it's a bit silly that a user can't create their own page (or better, have it be automatically created). I feel really pathetic being like "Yeah just uh, message me your username and I'll set it up" I know spam is an issue, but there has to be some kind of way. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Exciting new changes for the LibrePlanet Wiki
Hey Valessio, I'm testing out the new theme and love it so far. How are you tracking issues? Best, Roberto ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Thursday, October 17, 2019 4:40 AM, Valessio Brito wrote: > Hello humans, > > So sorry for the delay in sending another email. Some people who wrote > off the list and already could answer all. Thanks for the feedback and > contributions! > > What's New: > Thank you very much to the FSF TechTeam, especially Michael and Andrew > who helped a lot last week with major updates to MediaWiki, as well as > extensions and installation of the Tweeki base theme. > > Now I could say that we are in the testing process, if you want to be part: > > 1. Just login to libreplanet.org; > 2. Go to the "Preferences" page; > 3. Under "appearances" tab and change the theme to "TWeeki". > > Over the next few weeks I will adjust the old content from to > > > and thus stay responsive (mobile friendly). Please avoid using > Tables, use only when necessary. > > We are moving to new practices, so the new base theme is well > documented and there is support for a number of user-friendly > components. > Check it out here: https://tweeki.thai-land.at/wiki/Welcome > > Finally, I would like to send emails to the list, so it involves more > people discussing. Emails in private will be answered privately, but > it's a lot of energy and we need to share more among the whole > community. > > Sorry for the absence on IRC, unfortunately I have many instant > messaging environments and I can't keep up with all groups and > channels in different locals. > > Cheers, > Valessio Brito > > Em sex, 4 de out de 2019 às 17:08, Valessio Brito > cont...@valessiobrito.com.br escreveu: > > > Hello LibrePlanet Community, > > I'm Valessio, a free software activist since 2000 and the current > > campaigns team intern at the Free Software Foundation (FSF). Earlier > > this year, I had the opportunity to participate in an FSF internship > > with the [technical team][1], developing my skills and learning a lot > > of cool things about libreboot and about using free software for > > education, through using [MusicBlocks][2]. After my internship was > > completed, I continued to collaborate actively with FSF. One of these > > collaborations was on the development of the new Respects Your Freedom > > (RYF) hardware product certificate Web site, which will launch soon. > > [1] > > https://www.fsf.org/blogs/sysadmin/introducing-valessio-brito-intern-with-the-fsf-tech-team > > [2] > > https://www.fsf.org/bulletin/2019/spring/fsf-teaches-free-software-to-public-school-youth > > Now I am back in the FSF office, this time to work with the campaigns > > team on improving the LibrePlanet site (powered by [MediaWiki][4]), > > and assist in preparation for the [2020 LibrePlanet conference][5]. I > > also made this year's [LibrePlanet conference logo][6]. I hope you > > like it! > > [4] https://libreplanet.org > > [5] https://libreplanet.org/2020 > > [6] https://static.fsf.org/nosvn/libreplanet/2020/assets/logo.svg > > This email is intended to start a discussion and get people excited > > about making improvements to the way we use MediaWiki for LibrePlanet. > > I have a lot of ideas, and I can't do everything myself. I would like > > to invite you to participate, or to forward this email to someone who > > wants to start (or continue) collaborating with the free software > > movement. > > I have drafted a new theme for the first phase of my work on > > LibrePlanet.org, and it is now [available here][7] for comments, > > critiques, and suggestions. > > [7] https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Libreplanet-theme-mediawiki > > After changing the layout, ideally, the Web site pages will be > > restructured to make navigation more intuitive for documenting and > > leveraging future collaborations. In this process, we will also filter > > out outdated pages. This is where I will need your help! We want to > > create a lasting structure, and for LibrePlanet to be a success, we > > need to be sure that the new structure is right. I made a proposal to > > [reorganize the LibrePlanet pages][8] for you to comment on as well. > > [8] https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Libreplanet-nav > > You are welcome to collaborate to help us create an excellent resource > > for free software activists all over this (Libre)Planet. Let me know > > if you want to join in the project! I look forward to working with > > you, and hope I will see you at the conference! > > Cheers, > > Valessio Brito > > Campaigns team intern > > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
[libreplanet-discuss] Involving more women in my local LibrePlanet group
Hello all, Recent events have reminded me of the importance of making a conscious effort to include underrepresented groups in my local advocacy group, including women. Is there advice any women still on the mailing list can give me to be more effective in this regard? Roberto Beltran LibrePlanet South Florida ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
