massachusetts institute of technology 802.11 researchers
do you have email addresses for massachusetts institute of technology wifi 802.11 researchers? Or how I can find such researchers? It is about if mit can contribute to the openwifi card. https://github.com/open-sdr/openwifi ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
> It's clear that the original poster is very passionate. It is impertinent how purism has abused people's lack of knowledge about how intel cpus require non free software to work. > > * Core Issue : Purism is selling and marketing products as if they did not > contain proprietary software when they do. By doing this they are > demonstrating a hostility to the Free Software movement and it is upsetting > because the Free Software Foundation is associating with them by allowing > them to table at events and apply for the RYF certification. Partly correct. fsf should only give room for a fraudulent company, if fsf confronts purism with their lies. purism can apply for ryf as much as they want to. And fsf should process the applicantions. We know the outcome. My posting was about why fsf has not confronted purism with its misleading descriptions of their products? > * Sub Issue 1 : Purism uses Intel chips, and because Intel's chips all come > with the Management Engine on them any device with an Intel chip is running > non-free software. > > What Purism has to say about the ME : https://puri.sm/learn/intel-me/ When was the link published? First time archieve.org makes a copy of puri.sm/learn/intel-me/ having the wording you are referring to, is Feb 2019. https://web.archive.org/web/20190219143500/https://puri.sm/learn/intel-me/ At that point purism got the money they wanted from people. I expect people have received their purism computers and of course the computers are unable to run without non free software. So it is time to modify the phrasing of puri.sm/learn/intel-me/ Now the website speaks about the difficulties of signed software. The website is now more honest but still vague. Do you recognize the humor about purism's scam? He played the scam that well, that people not knowing better are defending purism. > > > * Sub Issue 2 : Purism's cell phone the Librem 5 contains radios that require > non-free software to operate. In their phone advertisement purism should have high lighted that all modems require non free software to work. And have explained the implications of non free software on the phone. > > What Purism has said : https://puri.sm/faq/ The question is near the bottom > and is titled "Are all hardware components running completely free software, > with the source code available?" > > What I think is the problem OP has: Because there are still non-free > components in the Librem 5 product the device does not meet the definition of > free. It is not about if purism's phone is running non free software. I resent how purism has been vague and omitting about the pieces of non free software which are required if all devices on the phone shall run. > > > > How I feel about this : > I found satisfactory answers to these issues in the Purism FAQ and when > searching using Duck Duck Go and relevant terms. This company doesn't seem to > be hostile or doing anything disingenuous. You probably did. But you did not investigate the matter well enough. https://puri.sm/learn/freedom-roadmap/ > The Respect Your Freedom certification is run with integrity and I have > faith that it is issued only when the standards are met. I have not claimed otherwise. I would be surprised if fsf would compromise the respect your freedom certificate. https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-solving-the-first-fsf-ryf-hurdle/ https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=rGHqSPnWEDw Why is she speaking about the difficulties of making a free software phone? Is there a pattern? First you lie about how it might be possible to sell a ryf certified phone. Then later you start talking about all the obstacles on making a ryf certified phone. > > pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: purism why does fsf and libreboot embrace a misleading company?
> Purism is a company, if you have a problem with that company, complain > to that. Read the initial post. The message is directed at fsf and libreplanet officials. Others answered and I decided not to ignore their posts. I responded. About purism, they know because they have been told. Posting here was about getting fsf and libreplanet to step away from purism. > > When you already mentioned it, what exactly is then "fraudulent > behavior"? Why you not give the exact facts? Read my replies to aaron. > > Then finally what is "fraudulent" is defined by the law, if you have > been deceived by Purism, which I deeply doubt, please complain to > proper authorities. purism has not swindled me, because I have not purchased any of their products. I doubt an american prosecutor will take interest in this case. > > How is Purism using FSF in Purism's deceptions? I would like to > understand what you are talking about. purism knows even guarded recommendations from fsf can be favorable for purism's sale. Therefore my request to fsf about not making announcements on purism without mentioning purism's lies. pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
> I agree about liying or misleading. Without ethics nothing works. I am > talking in general not specific case. It is shameless how purism has deceived people. pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
On 3/15/20 3:28 PM, Félicien Pillot wrote: > > We are not speaking about software here, are we? Yes, we are. The software which runs the cpu is also software. > > The computer is actually working with 100% free _software_, including > drivers and kernel, but it does contain nonfree _firmware_ (BIOS, Intel > signed microcodes, etc.) > And purism lied about the prospects of their products beeing able to run free cpu software. > pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
>>In my opinion moving in one step from all closed source to all open >>source freedom respecting is very hard or practically impossible. I am >>happy people are doing steps towards all open source and no hidden >>stuff. One valid step is modern hardware running open source Operating >>System out of the box. Another valid step is adding open source freedom >>respecting bios (i.e. libreboot) to that. Another valid step is ... Let >>us not forget the goal and keep doing steps. Small or big. All is >>welcome for the benefit of mankind. You are mixing things up. purism can make what products they want. What they cannot do is lie about the properties of their products. Do not tell people respect your freedom certification is an option, when it is not. And at every given opportunity, people should get to know, purism has a track record of lying. pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
On 3/14/20 11:09 AM, a via libreplanet-discuss wrote: > On 3/12/20 9:56 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: >> Félicien Pillot, 11/03/20 23:05: >>> What's wrong?? >> ninhar has raised such topics earlier in the Replicant mailing list, >> see for instance: >> https://lists.osuosl.org/pipermail/replicant/2019-November/002268.html >> I always tell people. you should too. >> >> "Report from 36C3" is AFAICT the best summary of the status of play as >> we know it. >> https://lists.osuosl.org/pipermail/replicant/2020-January/002441.html >> >> If the proposal is to ban from LibrePlanet all companies and products >> which are not RYF certified, I doubt that's advisable. It is not. It it about not giving a lying company an option to speak unchallenged. If steps would be taken such that purism would be confronted with their history of lies then I have no objection about purism giving a talk. pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
On 3/12/20 6:23 PM, Aaron Wolf wrote: > It would help if you state (or link) the specific concerns about Purism > separately from the judgments. Surely someone has collected the examples > so that people can see for themselves. People unfamiliar will not accept > an unknown source just leveling accusations. https://web.archive.org/web/20141121173028/http://puri.sm/products/ No mention of the fact that all new intel cpus require intel signed software to work. No cryptographer believes it is possible to break the key. https://puri.sm/learn/freedom-roadmap/ https://libreboot.org/faq.html#will-the-purism-laptops-be-supported https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism/librem-15 Go to paragraph What About the BIOS and firmware? Google asked for the cpu source software for an intel cpu they wanted to use. I think it was a tablet. Google was turned down. Surely purism would get it if asking. Did purism purism get it? allowing for a future where free software can replace the proprietary, digitally signed BIOS binaries No, not possible. Even if you can reverse engineer some pieces of cpu software, you cannot install your own software because you do not have the private key, which corresponds to the public key, which is build into the cpu's hardware. If purism did not know the above 2 matters, at the time they were incompetent. And from the moment free software people told them, they could not claim incompetence being the reason for their inaccurate product description. https://puri.sm/learn/software-freedom-in-perspective/ The website is manipulative. The non free software part may be the part which hides the backdoor or other unwanted features you would want to know about. About the librem 5, purism got more clever in phrasing their advertisement. Instead of lying they have been vague and omitting in their descriptions. There is no free software modem. purism should explicitly say that in the description of the phone. And tell what might be the implications of a non free software modem. Same about the wifi card if it requires non free software. https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-solving-the-first-fsf-ryf-hurdle/ No. Respect your freedom certification is out of the question if you want the modem to run. What about the wifi card? > > The thread you linked to is more of the same problem. It starts with > people saying "fraud" and other accusations and has back and forth about > it all. It's not trivial to parse that conversation. If this is as > important as you feel it is, please help us out by consolidating the > concerns in a way that newcomers to the issue can readily process. This matter is difficult. A lot of people probably do not understand the matter. And because they want a free software computer combined which their lack of knowledge they go into defense mode in favor of purism, when I and others try to inform them. When I first informed fsf my email was not harsh. I soberly described the matter and stated my arguments. My email here directed at fsf was phrased harshly because fsf is acting in ill faith. Same about other people I inform about purism. I only get strict if they do not counter my arguments and stubbornly defend purism. fsf knows about purism's deceptive practices and still gives him an opertunity to give a talk. If purism gives the speech and is not confronted with his lies then he can use the video to deceive more people. They trust me dumb ... If he gives the speech and is confronted then I have nothing against him giving the speech. > > Thanks > > On 2020-03-11 23:46, a via libreplanet-discuss wrote: >> This post is directed at officials from libreplanet >> and fsf. >> >> I wrote this post on trisquel's forum. Also available on >> https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVoYkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ >> https://libreplanet.org/2020/speakers/#2464 >> https://www.fsf.org/givingguide/v10/ >> https://trisquel.info/en/forum/librem13-fully-free-time >> In more than one rss, fsf has made favorable comments >> about purism and their products. >> >> It is documented that purism from the beginning has >> been either amateurish ignorant or plain liars >> about what how free software their products would become. They >> have continuously made people believe their >> products would stand a change of getting ryf >> approval from fsf. I and likely others have emailed fsf >> on the matter. No effect. >> What is it about fsf? Does it get money or hardware from >> purism? It takes one email to libreboot or replicant to >> get the facts straight. >> If you are a fsf official, then comment on this post. >> >> When people have mentioned purism products favorable, then >> I have told them the above. People have not been able >> to counter my arguments. Still almost a
Re: purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
On 3/14/20 11:04 AM, a via libreplanet-discuss wrote: > On 3/11/20 11:10 PM, Lori Nagel via libreplanet-discuss wrote: >>I'm not really sure how Purism is any worse than companies like Think >>Penguin, or than the machines are any less freedom respecting No. You are not. Purism is worse because they have lied about which level in terms of free software buyers could expect purism products to achieve. You are insulting thinkpenguin by your statement. There are no reports of thinkpenguin having lied about how free software thinkpenguin products are. pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
On 3/12/20 9:56 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: > Félicien Pillot, 11/03/20 23:05: >> What's wrong?? > > ninhar has raised such topics earlier in the Replicant mailing list, > see for instance: > https://lists.osuosl.org/pipermail/replicant/2019-November/002268.html > > "Report from 36C3" is AFAICT the best summary of the status of play as > we know it. > https://lists.osuosl.org/pipermail/replicant/2020-January/002441.html > > If the proposal is to ban from LibrePlanet all companies and products > which are not RYF certified, I doubt that's advisable. > > Federico > > ___ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
On 3/12/20 6:43 AM, Mike Gerwitz wrote: > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 20:10:09 +0100, a via libreplanet-discuss wrote: >> This post is directed at officials from libreplanet >> and fsf. >> >> I wrote this post on trisquel's forum. >> https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVoYkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ > Would you mind pasting the text of your message on this list? I get > this when I visit the site, and I do not intend to enable JS: > >JavaScript is required for Such PrivateBin to work. Sorry for the >inconvenience. > > Pasting will also allow people to quote inline and respond to specific points. > > > ___ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
I resend the emails replying to purism why does fsf and libreboot embrace a misleading company? under the subject purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company? That seemed not to work. This is a test email. pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
On 3/11/20 11:10 PM, Lori Nagel via libreplanet-discuss wrote: >I'm not really sure how Purism is any worse than companies like Think >Penguin, or than the machines are any less freedom respecting than >anything else that can run a FSF endorsed distro and coreboot. Even >some new system76 machines are running coreboot now from what I >understand. I understand it is hard to find hardware that gets a RYF >certification because of some stuff with intel, but I understand this >is not necessarily an issue with every chip, just most desktops and >laptops. (with the exception of some old ones such as the refurbished >ThinkPads like the t400) > >On Wednesday, March 11, 2020, 3:12:10 PM EDT, a via libreplanet-discuss > wrote: >This post is directed at officials from libreplanet >and fsf. >I wrote this post on trisquel's forum. >[1]https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVo >YkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ >___ >libreplanet-discuss mailing list >[2]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org >[3]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss > > References > >1. > https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVoYkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ >2. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org >3. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss > > > ___ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
On 3/11/20 9:11 PM, Stanisława Pałętka wrote: > W dniu środa, 11 marca 2020 a via libreplanet-discuss < > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> napisał(a): > >> This post is directed at officials from libreplanet >> and fsf. >> >> I wrote this post on trisquel's forum. >> https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVoYkFqC >> GWCx2tWVX5uvZJ >> >> pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
On 3/12/20 5:25 AM, Aaron Wolf wrote: > On 2020-03-11 14:33, a via libreplanet-discuss wrote: >> My post is about getting official comments from >> libreplanet and fsf. Of course anybody can >> reply, but I already know how people attempt >> to defend purism's behavior. >> >> >> On 3/11/20 8:48 PM, Aaron Wolf wrote: >>> If I understand you correctly, you believe: Purism marketing talks about >>> software freedom and the goal of RYF 100% free hardware, but they don't >>> deliver to that level, and they minimize or hide the details. You worry >>> that people buy Purism products believing they are getting more complete >>> freedom than they actually receive. You doubt Purism's good faith, and >>> because you feel FSF should be skeptical rather than gracious about >>> these concerns, FSF is making a mistake by giving Purism a platform or >>> acknowledgment (at least without some explicit qualifiers from FSF about >>> these concerns). Is that right? >> >> Correct. >> >> >> >>> I agree with you that marketing claims should not mislead people about >>> the facts of products. Stating a goal of reaching some standard is not >>> the same as already being there, and the difference should be plain and >>> transparent. >> >> Correct. >> >>> I don't find your jump to speculating about bad faith at all warranted. >>> There's no evidence that FSF is corrupted in any way around this. And >>> there's inadequate (though perhaps non-zero) evidence that Purism has >>> any bad faith. >> >> https://trisquel.info/en/forum/librem13-fully-free-time >> >> educate yourself. >> >> About purism they claimed about their notebooks that >> there was a real possibility that intel would publish >> the software in question. Everybody in the field >> know, intel does not publish such >> pieces of source software. >> >> purism claimed reverse engineering was an option. The >> software in question is signed. Name a cryptographer who will >> agree, that breaking the cryptography is an option? >> >> As I said, one email to libreboot would have been enough. >> Also after people told purism that their claims were >> unfounded, purism did not rectify their websites. >> >> It is swindle if you deceive people in order to gain >> money. >> >> About fsf. >> fsf is known to be strict and harsh in matters of free >> software. It is a mystery why fsf has acted that amateurishly >> about purism. That is why I ask, has fsf received money >> or hardware from purism? Are there people who at the >> same time represent both fsf and purism? >> >>> In general, you're more likely to learn and also to get others to listen >>> when you express concerns from a position of genuine curiosity without >>> hints of accusations and other attacks. >> >> You do realize I have stated arguments? You have not. A >> pattern I have noticed from other defenders of purism. >> >> fsf has been informed by me and maybe others, how >> purism has acted. It makes fsf an accessory in >> purism's fraud. fsf failure on this matter results in loss of >> credibility among those who are able to look behind >> purism's deceptions. >> >> >> >>> It can also help to try to create a *strong-man* argument. Generate the >>> strongest argument you can for a defense of Purism and FSF, and then see >>> if that holds up to scrutiny. That's much more insightful than >>> generating weak or straw-man arguments or speculative suspicions. >> >> Start rebut my arguments. >> > I made no arguments because I don't have a position on this, I don't > know that you are are, and I wasn't defending Purism. > > What I did was demonstrate a more effective way of communicating by > verifying if I understood, describing where I agree, and offering > feedback. All I'm saying is that you are inherently likely to be read > dismissively with the style of posting you used. Style has no relation > to accuracy. Someone can have effective style and be wrong or have lousy > style and be right. But people won't listen to badly-communicated ideas > that are still right. > > To avoid dismissal by others, I suggest you state the clear facts > distinctly from the accusations and stories. You already did better in > your reply to me. But for further clarification, something like this: > > "Purism claimed working toward X, but X is effectively i
purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
On 3/12/20 5:25 AM, Aaron Wolf wrote: > On 2020-03-11 14:33, a via libreplanet-discuss wrote: >> My post is about getting official comments from >> libreplanet and fsf. Of course anybody can >> reply, but I already know how people attempt >> to defend purism's behavior. >> >> >> On 3/11/20 8:48 PM, Aaron Wolf wrote: >>> If I understand you correctly, you believe: Purism marketing talks about >>> software freedom and the goal of RYF 100% free hardware, but they don't >>> deliver to that level, and they minimize or hide the details. You worry >>> that people buy Purism products believing they are getting more complete >>> freedom than they actually receive. You doubt Purism's good faith, and >>> because you feel FSF should be skeptical rather than gracious about >>> these concerns, FSF is making a mistake by giving Purism a platform or >>> acknowledgment (at least without some explicit qualifiers from FSF about >>> these concerns). Is that right? >> >> Correct. >> >> >> >>> I agree with you that marketing claims should not mislead people about >>> the facts of products. Stating a goal of reaching some standard is not >>> the same as already being there, and the difference should be plain and >>> transparent. >> >> Correct. >> >>> I don't find your jump to speculating about bad faith at all warranted. >>> There's no evidence that FSF is corrupted in any way around this. And >>> there's inadequate (though perhaps non-zero) evidence that Purism has >>> any bad faith. >> >> https://trisquel.info/en/forum/librem13-fully-free-time >> >> educate yourself. >> >> About purism they claimed about their notebooks that >> there was a real possibility that intel would publish >> the software in question. Everybody in the field >> know, intel does not publish such >> pieces of source software. >> >> purism claimed reverse engineering was an option. The >> software in question is signed. Name a cryptographer who will >> agree, that breaking the cryptography is an option? >> >> As I said, one email to libreboot would have been enough. >> Also after people told purism that their claims were >> unfounded, purism did not rectify their websites. >> >> It is swindle if you deceive people in order to gain >> money. >> >> About fsf. >> fsf is known to be strict and harsh in matters of free >> software. It is a mystery why fsf has acted that amateurishly >> about purism. That is why I ask, has fsf received money >> or hardware from purism? Are there people who at the >> same time represent both fsf and purism? >> >>> In general, you're more likely to learn and also to get others to listen >>> when you express concerns from a position of genuine curiosity without >>> hints of accusations and other attacks. >> >> You do realize I have stated arguments? You have not. A >> pattern I have noticed from other defenders of purism. >> >> fsf has been informed by me and maybe others, how >> purism has acted. It makes fsf an accessory in >> purism's fraud. fsf failure on this matter results in loss of >> credibility among those who are able to look behind >> purism's deceptions. >> >> >> >>> It can also help to try to create a *strong-man* argument. Generate the >>> strongest argument you can for a defense of Purism and FSF, and then see >>> if that holds up to scrutiny. That's much more insightful than >>> generating weak or straw-man arguments or speculative suspicions. >> >> Start rebut my arguments. >> > I made no arguments because I don't have a position on this, I don't > know that you are are, and I wasn't defending Purism. > > What I did was demonstrate a more effective way of communicating by > verifying if I understood, describing where I agree, and offering > feedback. All I'm saying is that you are inherently likely to be read > dismissively with the style of posting you used. Style has no relation > to accuracy. Someone can have effective style and be wrong or have lousy > style and be right. But people won't listen to badly-communicated ideas > that are still right. > > To avoid dismissal by others, I suggest you state the clear facts > distinctly from the accusations and stories. You already did better in > your reply to me. But for further clarification, something like this: > > "Purism claimed working toward X, but X is effectively i
purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
On 3/11/20 11:30 PM, Hector Espinoza wrote: >In my opinion moving in one step from all closed source to all open >source freedom respecting is very hard or practically impossible. I am >happy people are doing steps towards all open source and no hidden >stuff. One valid step is modern hardware running open source Operating >System out of the box. Another valid step is adding open source freedom >respecting bios (i.e. libreboot) to that. Another valid step is ... Let >us not forget the goal and keep doing steps. Small or big. All is >welcome for the benefit of mankind. >Cheers, >Héctor Espinoza > >El mié., 11 de mar. de 2020, 17:11, Lori Nagel via libreplanet-discuss ><[1]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> escribió: > > I'm not really sure how Purism is any worse than companies like > Think > Penguin, or than the machines are any less freedom respecting > than > anything else that can run a FSF endorsed distro and coreboot. > Even > some new system76 machines are running coreboot now from what I > understand. I understand it is hard to find hardware that gets a > RYF > certification because of some stuff with intel, but I understand > this > is not necessarily an issue with every chip, just most desktops > and > laptops. (with the exception of some old ones such as the > refurbished > ThinkPads like the t400) > On Wednesday, March 11, 2020, 3:12:10 PM EDT, a via > libreplanet-discuss > <[2]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> wrote: > This post is directed at officials from libreplanet > and fsf. > I wrote this post on trisquel's forum. > > [1][3]https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN > 74cVVo > YkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ > ___ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > [2][4]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > > [3][5]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-dis > cuss > References > 1. > [6]https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74c > VVoYkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ > 2. mailto:[7]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > 3. > [8]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discus > s > ___ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > [9]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > [10]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discu > ss > > References > >1. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org >2. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org >3. https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVo >4. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org >5. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss >6. > https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVoYkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ >7. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org >8. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss >9. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > 10. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss > > > ___ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: purism why does fsf and libreboot embrace a misleading company?
On 3/11/20 9:11 PM, Stanisława Pałętka wrote: > W dniu środa, 11 marca 2020 a via libreplanet-discuss < > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org> napisał(a): > >> This post is directed at officials from libreplanet >> and fsf. >> >> I wrote this post on trisquel's forum. >> https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVoYkFqC >> GWCx2tWVX5uvZJ >> >> pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
On 3/11/20 10:58 PM, a via libreplanet-discuss wrote: >> If I understand correctly... >> >> First, you criticise Purism for saying that soon they would be supported >> by the FSF. >> Then, you criticise the FSF for having supported Purism soon after that. >> >> What's wrong?? > > I am criticizing purism for fraudulent behavior. I say purism > is using fsf in purism's deceptions. The major question > is why fsf has let it > take place? > >> PS: Why don't you copy-paste that text in your message? >> >> >> >> > The link makes my post more compact. And a link is > easier to share. > > > > ___ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
On 3/11/20 10:33 PM, a via libreplanet-discuss wrote: > My post is about getting official comments from > libreplanet and fsf. Of course anybody can > reply, but I already know how people attempt > to defend purism's behavior. > > > On 3/11/20 8:48 PM, Aaron Wolf wrote: >> If I understand you correctly, you believe: Purism marketing talks about >> software freedom and the goal of RYF 100% free hardware, but they don't >> deliver to that level, and they minimize or hide the details. You worry >> that people buy Purism products believing they are getting more complete >> freedom than they actually receive. You doubt Purism's good faith, and >> because you feel FSF should be skeptical rather than gracious about >> these concerns, FSF is making a mistake by giving Purism a platform or >> acknowledgment (at least without some explicit qualifiers from FSF about >> these concerns). Is that right? > > Correct. > > > >> I agree with you that marketing claims should not mislead people about >> the facts of products. Stating a goal of reaching some standard is not >> the same as already being there, and the difference should be plain and >> transparent. > > Correct. > >> I don't find your jump to speculating about bad faith at all warranted. >> There's no evidence that FSF is corrupted in any way around this. And >> there's inadequate (though perhaps non-zero) evidence that Purism has >> any bad faith. > > https://trisquel.info/en/forum/librem13-fully-free-time > > educate yourself. > > About purism they claimed about their notebooks that > there was a real possibility that intel would publish > the software in question. Everybody in the field > know, intel does not publish such > pieces of source software. > > purism claimed reverse engineering was an option. The > software in question is signed. Name a cryptographer who will > agree, that breaking the cryptography is an option? > > As I said, one email to libreboot would have been enough. > Also after people told purism that their claims were > unfounded, purism did not rectify their websites. > > It is swindle if you deceive people in order to gain > money. > > About fsf. > fsf is known to be strict and harsh in matters of free > software. It is a mystery why fsf has acted that amateurishly > about purism. That is why I ask, has fsf received money > or hardware from purism? Are there people who at the > same time represent both fsf and purism? > >> In general, you're more likely to learn and also to get others to listen >> when you express concerns from a position of genuine curiosity without >> hints of accusations and other attacks. > > You do realize I have stated arguments? You have not. A > pattern I have noticed from other defenders of purism. > > fsf has been informed by me and maybe others, how > purism has acted. It makes fsf an accessory in > purism's fraud. fsf failure on this matter results in loss of > credibility among those who are able to look behind > purism's deceptions. > > > >> It can also help to try to create a *strong-man* argument. Generate the >> strongest argument you can for a defense of Purism and FSF, and then see >> if that holds up to scrutiny. That's much more insightful than >> generating weak or straw-man arguments or speculative suspicions. > > Start rebut my arguments. > > > > ___ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
On 3/11/20 8:48 PM, Aaron Wolf wrote: > If I understand you correctly, you believe: Purism marketing talks about > software freedom and the goal of RYF 100% free hardware, but they don't > deliver to that level, and they minimize or hide the details. You worry > that people buy Purism products believing they are getting more complete > freedom than they actually receive. You doubt Purism's good faith, and > because you feel FSF should be skeptical rather than gracious about > these concerns, FSF is making a mistake by giving Purism a platform or > acknowledgment (at least without some explicit qualifiers from FSF about > these concerns). Is that right? > > I agree with you that marketing claims should not mislead people about > the facts of products. Stating a goal of reaching some standard is not > the same as already being there, and the difference should be plain and > transparent. > > I don't find your jump to speculating about bad faith at all warranted. > There's no evidence that FSF is corrupted in any way around this. And > there's inadequate (though perhaps non-zero) evidence that Purism has > any bad faith. > > In general, you're more likely to learn and also to get others to listen > when you express concerns from a position of genuine curiosity without > hints of accusations and other attacks. > > It can also help to try to create a *strong-man* argument. Generate the > strongest argument you can for a defense of Purism and FSF, and then see > if that holds up to scrutiny. That's much more insightful than > generating weak or straw-man arguments or speculative suspicions. > > On 2020-03-11 12:10, a via libreplanet-discuss wrote: >> This post is directed at officials from libreplanet >> and fsf. >> >> I wrote this post on trisquel's forum. >> https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVoYkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ >> >> >> ___ >> libreplanet-discuss mailing list >> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org >> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss >> pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
This post is directed at officials from libreplanet and fsf. I wrote this post on trisquel's forum. Also available on https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVoYkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ https://libreplanet.org/2020/speakers/#2464 https://www.fsf.org/givingguide/v10/ https://trisquel.info/en/forum/librem13-fully-free-time In more than one rss, fsf has made favorable comments about purism and their products. It is documented that purism from the beginning has been either amateurish ignorant or plain liars about what how free software their products would become. They have continuously made people believe their products would stand a change of getting ryf approval from fsf. I and likely others have emailed fsf on the matter. No effect. What is it about fsf? Does it get money or hardware from purism? It takes one email to libreboot or replicant to get the facts straight. If you are a fsf official, then comment on this post. When people have mentioned purism products favorable, then I have told them the above. People have not been able to counter my arguments. Still almost always, they have defended purism. How does it look, when you are calling purism out and at the same time fsf displays approval and endorsement of purism? If fsf thinks it has to mention the librem 5 on its website, then you are required to tell, how purism have mislead people. My understanding is, purism has been allowed to present its products in the vicinity of libreplanet. A wrong decision. Now libreplanet has given purism a libreplanet talk. What a peak of incompetence from libreplanet. Libreplanet cancel the talk. If you are attending the talk, then interrupt the talk. Confront the speaker with their history of misleading people. pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: purism why does fsf and libreboot embrace a misleading company?
I got aware, I have made a big mistake. The subject should have said purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace misleading company? I will restart my post having the correct subject and a couple of adjustments in the text. People can then resend their responses to the new post. Can they posts I wrote having the wrong subject get deleted? > Would you mind pasting the text of your message on this list? I get > this when I visit the site, and I do not intend to enable JS: I did not think of this. To my knowledge the paste bin runs free js. I will display the text. > pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: purism why does fsf and libreboot embrace a misleading company?
> If I understand correctly... > > First, you criticise Purism for saying that soon they would be supported > by the FSF. > Then, you criticise the FSF for having supported Purism soon after that. > > What's wrong?? I am criticizing purism for fraudulent behavior. I say purism is using fsf in purism's deceptions. The major question is why fsf has let it take place? > PS: Why don't you copy-paste that text in your message? > > > > The link makes my post more compact. And a link is easier to share. pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: purism why does fsf and libreboot embrace a misleading company?
My post is about getting official comments from libreplanet and fsf. Of course anybody can reply, but I already know how people attempt to defend purism's behavior. On 3/11/20 8:48 PM, Aaron Wolf wrote: > If I understand you correctly, you believe: Purism marketing talks about > software freedom and the goal of RYF 100% free hardware, but they don't > deliver to that level, and they minimize or hide the details. You worry > that people buy Purism products believing they are getting more complete > freedom than they actually receive. You doubt Purism's good faith, and > because you feel FSF should be skeptical rather than gracious about > these concerns, FSF is making a mistake by giving Purism a platform or > acknowledgment (at least without some explicit qualifiers from FSF about > these concerns). Is that right? Correct. > > I agree with you that marketing claims should not mislead people about > the facts of products. Stating a goal of reaching some standard is not > the same as already being there, and the difference should be plain and > transparent. Correct. > > I don't find your jump to speculating about bad faith at all warranted. > There's no evidence that FSF is corrupted in any way around this. And > there's inadequate (though perhaps non-zero) evidence that Purism has > any bad faith. https://trisquel.info/en/forum/librem13-fully-free-time educate yourself. About purism they claimed about their notebooks that there was a real possibility that intel would publish the software in question. Everybody in the field know, intel does not publish such pieces of source software. purism claimed reverse engineering was an option. The software in question is signed. Name a cryptographer who will agree, that breaking the cryptography is an option? As I said, one email to libreboot would have been enough. Also after people told purism that their claims were unfounded, purism did not rectify their websites. It is swindle if you deceive people in order to gain money. About fsf. fsf is known to be strict and harsh in matters of free software. It is a mystery why fsf has acted that amateurishly about purism. That is why I ask, has fsf received money or hardware from purism? Are there people who at the same time represent both fsf and purism? > In general, you're more likely to learn and also to get others to listen > when you express concerns from a position of genuine curiosity without > hints of accusations and other attacks. You do realize I have stated arguments? You have not. A pattern I have noticed from other defenders of purism. fsf has been informed by me and maybe others, how purism has acted. It makes fsf an accessory in purism's fraud. fsf failure on this matter results in loss of credibility among those who are able to look behind purism's deceptions. > > It can also help to try to create a *strong-man* argument. Generate the > strongest argument you can for a defense of Purism and FSF, and then see > if that holds up to scrutiny. That's much more insightful than > generating weak or straw-man arguments or speculative suspicions. Start rebut my arguments. pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
purism why does fsf and libreboot embrace a misleading company?
This post is directed at officials from libreplanet and fsf. I wrote this post on trisquel's forum. https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVoYkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
