Re: Campaign to boycott Facebook

[Aaron Wolf]

On 2020-02-24 23:16, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
> Aaron Wolf, 24/02/20 17:55:
>> Leaving is better, but if someone*doesn't*  leave, they should at least
>> focus on consciousness-raising there. They can do so in replies as well
>> as posts. 
> 
> Comments may be good, I agree. For instance you can comment when
> somebody makes an announcement or opens a conversation which excludes
> people who don't use Facebook, pointing out the problems. You can also
> comment on posts which violate copyleft, which are plenty:
> . On the
> other hand it's difficult to do this while claiming you're not on Facebook.
> 
> Never comment on misleading posts or posts you disagree with, because
> activity and controversy make them more visible.
> 
>> I agree that it's likely they overall bury anti-FB posts, but
>> who knows, it's a black box.
> 
> There was some report about this in the last few months from a former
> employee, claiming there was a permanent monitoring of posts with the
> word "Facebook" in them, and not just to listen to feedback. I couldn't
> find the exact source though:
> 
> 

Please if anyone can find that, I would really like to see it, and it
would be great to add a citation to Wikipedia.

I've presumed that the only option is to tell people to do things like
hint at the topic without using the words "Facebook".

Anyway, it's indeed a losing battle to try to fight on their terf. But
I'd still rather the people there be dissidents than just be passive and
still using it.

> 
> Federico


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Re: Campaign to boycott Facebook

[Caleb Herbert]

On 2/24/20 1:19 PM, Roberto Beltran via libreplanet-discuss wrote:
> Although you likely need to use proprietary JS to sign up for a Facebook 
> account at this point, if you have an account I think it's usable without 
> proprietary software.

Last time I tried to log in, it was shut down.  They thought I was
violating their policy, just because I only gave them the bare minimum
of required information.

-- 
Caleb Herbert
KE0VVT
(816) 892-9669
https://bluehome.net/csh

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Re: Campaign to boycott Facebook

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Aaron Wolf, 24/02/20 17:55:

Leaving is better, but if someone*doesn't*  leave, they should at least
focus on consciousness-raising there. They can do so in replies as well
as posts. 


Comments may be good, I agree. For instance you can comment when 
somebody makes an announcement or opens a conversation which excludes 
people who don't use Facebook, pointing out the problems. You can also 
comment on posts which violate copyleft, which are plenty: 
. On the 
other hand it's difficult to do this while claiming you're not on Facebook.


Never comment on misleading posts or posts you disagree with, because 
activity and controversy make them more visible.



I agree that it's likely they overall bury anti-FB posts, but
who knows, it's a black box.


There was some report about this in the last few months from a former 
employee, claiming there was a permanent monitoring of posts with the 
word "Facebook" in them, and not just to listen to feedback. I couldn't 
find the exact source though:



Federico

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Re: Campaign to boycott Facebook

[Roberto Beltran via libreplanet-discuss]

>I also made the tactical choice to
not for Free Software specifically, for which I'm sure many here will
be disappointed.

Although you likely need to use proprietary JS to sign up for a Facebook 
account at this point, if you have an account I think it's usable without 
proprietary software.

There are plenty of reasons not to use Facebook and I don't, but you can be a 
speerfie and still use it/be used by it if you block proprietary JS or use a 
libre client.

In short, rejecting Facebook isn't necessarily a free software issue to begin 
with so it's all good.

Roberto Beltran
https://libremiami.org/




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Re: Campaign to boycott Facebook

[Aaron Wolf]

On 2020-02-24 01:03, Raymundo Vásquez Ruiz wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Monday, 24 de February de 2020 6:58, Aaron Wolf  
> wrote:
> 
>> For anyone who won't leave FB, there's some value in specifically
>> bringing anti-FB messages/warnings to the people who are there. If the
>> only FB criticisms are outside FB, then they won't be seen by those who
>> need them most. So, going to FB to criticize it is at least better than
>> just using it normally. So, I'd suggest asking people to consider this
>> approach (learn, warn others) if they won't otherwise leave.
> 
> I'm not totally convinced by this argument.
> What comes to my mind is the fact that the number of active users have a 
> direct impact on the monetization of the platform and even when you are a 
> disident you're still inside their ecosystem and therefore are targetable and 
> profitable.
> Also, if I understand well, they are in total control of the posts and I 
> think that there's no guarantee that your ideas are being displayed in other 
> people's wall.
> 
> I personally took a lot more effort into campaining against in real life 
> since I deleted my account and managed to convince at least other few people 
> :)
> 
> Cheers,
> Ray
> 

Leaving is better, but if someone *doesn't* leave, they should at least
focus on consciousness-raising there. They can do so in replies as well
as posts. I agree that it's likely they overall bury anti-FB posts, but
who knows, it's a black box.

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Re: Campaign to boycott Facebook

[Raymundo Vásquez Ruiz]

Hello,

On Monday, 24 de February de 2020 6:58, Aaron Wolf  wrote:

> For anyone who won't leave FB, there's some value in specifically
> bringing anti-FB messages/warnings to the people who are there. If the
> only FB criticisms are outside FB, then they won't be seen by those who
> need them most. So, going to FB to criticize it is at least better than
> just using it normally. So, I'd suggest asking people to consider this
> approach (learn, warn others) if they won't otherwise leave.

I'm not totally convinced by this argument.
What comes to my mind is the fact that the number of active users have a direct 
impact on the monetization of the platform and even when you are a disident 
you're still inside their ecosystem and therefore are targetable and profitable.
Also, if I understand well, they are in total control of the posts and I think 
that there's no guarantee that your ideas are being displayed in other people's 
wall.

I personally took a lot more effort into campaining against in real life since 
I deleted my account and managed to convince at least other few people :)

Cheers,
Ray

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Re: Campaign to boycott Facebook

[Hector Espinoza]

   Hi Jim:
   I think your point is very important.
   Day to day, not only inside of digital social networks, but in
   television/radio/newspapers that probably happens as well.
   Perhaps digital social networks have democratized social networking but
   regulating content is always tricky. Maybe inside that network or any
   other network anybody can potentially be the biggest leader/influencer
   (time/workforce resources aside).
   It is up to us in last instance to determine our trusting entities. Of
   course too much noise makes that more difficult.
   Cheers,
   Héctor Espinoza
   On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 4:38 PM Jim Garrett <[1]jimgarr...@posteo.net>
   wrote:
   >
   > Hi everyone,
   >
   > I've always counseled friends to leave Facebook, when the
   conversation
   > was feasible or potentially fruitful, but hearing recently that
   author
   > Stephen King has left Facebook due to FB's policy to allow factually
   > incorrect political advertisements, I realized just how this
   threatens
   > US democracy (and possibly democracy in other countries as well):
   > (1) the Trump campaign has at least 500M dollars, and (2) Trump has
   no
   > compunction against disgorging a stream of lies with no concern for
   > discourse. I'm envisioning what is technically called a s**tstorm
   that
   > will cause chaos and simply overwhelm discourse.
   >
   > I'm calling out to my friends to ask them to boycott, and I'm
   > suggesting they preserve their Facebook community by organizing
   > transitions to alternatives.  I suggest Friendica and Mastodon as
   > specific alternatives.
   >
   > I've written my missive in blog form here:
   >
   >
   [2]https://internetperdition.wordpress.com/2020/02/22/boycott-facebook-
   for-real-this-time-to-save-our-democracy/
   >
   > Please consider reaching out to your friends and colleagues
   similarly.
   > Feel free to point them to my blog, create your own version, or
   > proceed however makes sense to you.
   >
   > I think this is a special time.  Facebook has always been
   > reprehensible, but now they've made one additional error that most
   > people find particularly hard to swallow: they forbid incorrect
   medical
   > ads because "they could cause harm", but not incorrect political ads.
   > It follows that Facebook believes that political ads don't cause
   harm.
   >
   > Admittedly, my post is US-centric.  I also made the tactical choice
   to
   > not for Free Software specifically, for which I'm sure many here will
   > be disappointed.  I generally do advocate for Free Software when I
   > see an opportunity, but I felt the need to focus in this case, and
   can
   > discuss software freedom in whatever follow-up conversations arise.
   >
   > Thanks for acting in whatever way you can!
   >
   > Jim Garrett
   >
   > ___
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   > [4]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss

References

   1. mailto:jimgarr...@posteo.net
   2. 
https://internetperdition.wordpress.com/2020/02/22/boycott-facebook-for-real-this-time-to-save-our-democracy/
   3. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   4. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
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Re: Campaign to boycott Facebook

[Aaron Wolf]

For anyone who won't leave FB, there's some value in specifically
bringing anti-FB messages/warnings to the people who are there. If the
only FB criticisms are outside FB, then they won't be seen by those who
need them most. So, going to FB to criticize it is at least better than
just using it normally. So, I'd suggest asking people to consider this
approach (learn, warn others) if they won't otherwise leave.

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Re: Campaign to boycott Facebook

[Pradhan Rishi Sharma]

   I will search the web to find any relevant stats regarding this and
   post them here.

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Re: Campaign to boycott Facebook

[Caleb Herbert]

On TV, I see ads for Facebook that exploit people's desire to join
discussion groups and have meetups.  They must be losing a lot of
business to have ads this desperate.

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Campaign to boycott Facebook

[Jim Garrett]

Hi everyone,

I've always counseled friends to leave Facebook, when the conversation
was feasible or potentially fruitful, but hearing recently that author
Stephen King has left Facebook due to FB's policy to allow factually
incorrect political advertisements, I realized just how this threatens
US democracy (and possibly democracy in other countries as well):
(1) the Trump campaign has at least 500M dollars, and (2) Trump has no
compunction against disgorging a stream of lies with no concern for
discourse. I'm envisioning what is technically called a s**tstorm that
will cause chaos and simply overwhelm discourse.

I'm calling out to my friends to ask them to boycott, and I'm
suggesting they preserve their Facebook community by organizing
transitions to alternatives.  I suggest Friendica and Mastodon as
specific alternatives.

I've written my missive in blog form here:

https://internetperdition.wordpress.com/2020/02/22/boycott-facebook-for-real-this-time-to-save-our-democracy/

Please consider reaching out to your friends and colleagues similarly.
Feel free to point them to my blog, create your own version, or
proceed however makes sense to you.

I think this is a special time.  Facebook has always been
reprehensible, but now they've made one additional error that most
people find particularly hard to swallow: they forbid incorrect medical
ads because "they could cause harm", but not incorrect political ads.
It follows that Facebook believes that political ads don't cause harm.

Admittedly, my post is US-centric.  I also made the tactical choice to
not for Free Software specifically, for which I'm sure many here will
be disappointed.  I generally do advocate for Free Software when I
see an opportunity, but I felt the need to focus in this case, and can
discuss software freedom in whatever follow-up conversations arise.

Thanks for acting in whatever way you can!

Jim Garrett

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