Re: RE : Ideas to promote making and using free hardware designs (was Re: FSF continuously harms Free Hardware)
* Dr Andrew A. Adams [2022-01-24 08:48]: > > Arthur Torrey wrote: > > > I am a member of the Artisan's Asylum maker-space (formerly in > > Somerville, MA, temporarily shut down while moving to Allston) and > > would dearly love to be able to make the hardware that I can draw > > and design in LibreCAD (2D) or possibly FreeCAD, gCAD3D or some > > other Free Software 3D CAD package, but I have not been able to find > > any way to get from those packages to g-code that I can feed to our > > CNC machines. I cannot be sure if this may help: dxf2gcode download | SourceForge.net https://sourceforge.net/projects/dxf2gcode/ DXF to G-code Conversion Tutorial - Open Source Ecology https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/DXF_to_G-code_Conversion_Tutorial Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
RE : Ideas to promote making and using free hardware designs (was Re: FSF continuously harms Free Hardware)
Arthur Torrey wrote: > I am a member of the Artisan's Asylum maker-space (formerly in > Somerville, MA, temporarily shut down while moving to Allston) and > would dearly love to be able to make the hardware that I can draw > and design in LibreCAD (2D) or possibly FreeCAD, gCAD3D or some > other Free Software 3D CAD package, but I have not been able to find > any way to get from those packages to g-code that I can feed to our > CNC machines. Arthur, This isn't my field, but I thought I'd seen something that at least fills part of this chain. The OpenBuilds-CAM and OpenBuilds-CONTROL software are AGPL https://github.com/OpenBuilds/OpenBuilds-CAM https://github.com/OpenBuilds/OpenBuilds-CONTROL Are these not part of the toolchain you're talking about here? The CAM software description says it takes SVG, DXF or Bitmap and produces GCODE for sending to CONTROL, which controls some machines. This does not seem to meet all of the toolchain you need, but it seems to fill at least part of it. -- Dr Andrew A Adams a...@meiji.ac.jp Deputy Director of the Centre for Business Information Ethics Meiji University, Tokyo, Japan http://www.a-cubed.info/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: RE : Ideas to promote making and using free hardware designs (was Re: FSF continuously harms Free Hardware)
* Jacob Hrbek [2022-01-21 18:22]: > I am strictly against paying for freedom, Never in the history of mankind freedom was every free of charge. We all pay for freedom, and we never get it. And if anyting is worth, it is worth paying for freedom. > but i am not against limiting freedom until the development is paid WTF? Am I on the wrong mailing list or you? > assuming that the freedom to study and improve is not violated > (freedom to redistribute can require fee for commercial use) If you require fee for commercial use that is not free software by definition, thus also outside of the scope of subjects on this mailing list. Feel free to exchange though. > and the party is mandated to be transparent about their financing > and license enforces that "when the development cost is paid then > this license automatically removes all restrictions on use and > redistribute" (would be a great if GPLv4 had this clause). Well, it will never be. But keep dreaming. > That said I would like to highlight the case of Purism with Librem 5 > which allegedly does this approach, I did not see they do that approach, maybe you misunderstood something. I find Purism and their hardware some of best attempts to come to free software with free hardware in the world. So their project is just to be supported. They are smaller company, unlike IBM or other hardware companies, and their products will cost rather more than less. That is quite understandable. Try to make computer yourself and you will understand. > but they are not transparent My impression is quite contrary, they are so much transparent. > and are likely abusing their trust by constantly hiring new people > to claim that the development cost increased to infinity which is > terrible for user freedom. That is generalization, I cannot say I condone that neither I agree to that. I do not see problem with user freedom in Purism. Can you be more specific? Then also if you wish to tell something to Purism, why don't you tell it specific to them? Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: RE : Ideas to promote making and using free hardware designs (was Re: FSF continuously harms Free Hardware)
> Perhaps there could be a way to work with the hardware makers and free cad developers to create a similar set up where for a reasonable cost you can obtain the required drivers, firmware etc. -- Torrey I am strictly against paying for freedom, but i am not against limiting freedom until the development is paid assuming that the freedom to study and improve is not violated (freedom to redistribute can require fee for commercial use) and the party is mandated to be transparent about their financing and license enforces that "when the development cost is paid then this license automatically removes all restrictions on use and redistribute" (would be a great if GPLv4 had this clause). That said I would like to highlight the case of Purism with Librem 5 which allegedly does this approach, but they are not transparent and are likely abusing their trust by constantly hiring new people to claim that the development cost increased to infinity which is terrible for user freedom. On 1/21/22 10:20, Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss wrote: Perhaps there could be a way to work with the hardware makers and free cad developers to create a similar set up where for a reasonable cost you can obtain the required drivers, firmware etc. -- Jacob Hrbek publickey - kreyren@rixotstudio.cz - 1677db82.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: RE : Ideas to promote making and using free hardware designs (was Re: FSF continuously harms Free Hardware)
* Arthur Torrey [2022-01-21 04:09]: > An excellent post by Paul Fernhout, but I see one really HUGE problem, namely > that I don't know of ANY Free Software tool or tool-chain that can get a > person from 'beer-mat' to 'g-code' (For those not familiar with the CNC > world, g-code is the 'assembly language' of the CNC manufacturing world... > > I am a member of the Artisan's Asylum maker-space (formerly in > Somerville, MA, temporarily shut down while moving to Allston) and > would dearly love to be able to make the hardware that I can draw > and design in LibreCAD (2D) or possibly FreeCAD, gCAD3D or some > other Free Software 3D CAD package, but I have not been able to find > any way to get from those packages to g-code that I can feed to our > CNC machines. OpenSCAD - elegant export to G-code from w/in OpenSCAD? https://forum.openscad.org/elegant-export-to-G-code-from-w-in-OpenSCAD-td4037.html Maybe there are some references there. Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: RE : Ideas to promote making and using free hardware designs (was Re: FSF continuously harms Free Hardware)
On 21/01/2022 01:05, Arthur Torrey wrote: An excellent post by Paul Fernhout, but I see one really HUGE problem, namely that I don't know of ANY Free Software tool or tool-chain that can get a person from 'beer-mat' to 'g-code' (For those not familiar with the CNC world, g-code is the 'assembly language' of the CNC manufacturing world... I am a member of the Artisan's Asylum maker-space (formerly in Somerville, MA, temporarily shut down while moving to Allston) and would dearly love to be able to make the hardware that I can draw and design in LibreCAD (2D) or possibly FreeCAD, gCAD3D or some other Free Software 3D CAD package, but I have not been able to find any way to get from those packages to g-code that I can feed to our CNC machines. Instead I have to use Proprietary CAD packages (some of which have limited 'Free as in Beer' offerings) to make proprietary format files in order to generate (proprietary) tool-paths to feed to a (proprietary) pre-processor that turns them into machine appropriate g-code (Ironically, at least one of the machines I'm running that g-code on is using LinuxCNC as a controller). I haven't even found a path that would let me move a design from a Free CAD package into one of the proprietary packages to do the tool-path steps. For electronics stuff, KiCAD is amazingly good, I've heard professional board designers say that it can go head to head against the $10K / seat commercial programs. I haven't done anything in the 3D printing world, but I've heard there are some packages that are at least competent for that. However there is NOTHING I've been able to find that is capable of even basic CNC machining g-code, let alone anything close to modern High Speed Machining (as done by things like HSM-Works) As such, Paul's proposals for OSCOMAK and other shared collections of design data seem like they would be of little use if there is no way to get the collected data into a new design that can be manufactured I've been urging the FSF to put CAD onto the 'high priority' list for years, but so far no luck... ART -- Arthur Torrey - --- As I understand it, when the source code to doom was released, the original levels stayed as non-free with a paid option to get them. Perhaps there could be a way to work with the hardware makers and free cad developers to create a similar set up where for a reasonable cost you can obtain the required drivers, firmware etc. FreeCAD would remain free as in freedom, if you wanted to use it with specific hardware you could do so. Just a thought, Ideally they would make their software available for free software available for BSD, Linux etc. If MacOS is based on BSD this can't be that difficult to port over surely. So this is a sort of meet in the middle approach that may work, as long as we, as a community respect the copyright, and pay for these components that should keep the copyright holders happy. The topic of funding projects came up at the meeting on Thursday 20th. So this idea is partly influenced by that and what happened with games such as Doom. Regards Paul OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
RE : Ideas to promote making and using free hardware designs (was Re: FSF continuously harms Free Hardware)
An excellent post by Paul Fernhout, but I see one really HUGE problem, namely that I don't know of ANY Free Software tool or tool-chain that can get a person from 'beer-mat' to 'g-code' (For those not familiar with the CNC world, g-code is the 'assembly language' of the CNC manufacturing world... I am a member of the Artisan's Asylum maker-space (formerly in Somerville, MA, temporarily shut down while moving to Allston) and would dearly love to be able to make the hardware that I can draw and design in LibreCAD (2D) or possibly FreeCAD, gCAD3D or some other Free Software 3D CAD package, but I have not been able to find any way to get from those packages to g-code that I can feed to our CNC machines. Instead I have to use Proprietary CAD packages (some of which have limited 'Free as in Beer' offerings) to make proprietary format files in order to generate (proprietary) tool-paths to feed to a (proprietary) pre-processor that turns them into machine appropriate g-code (Ironically, at least one of the machines I'm running that g-code on is using LinuxCNC as a controller). I haven't even found a path that would let me move a design from a Free CAD package into one of the proprietary packages to do the tool-path steps. For electronics stuff, KiCAD is amazingly good, I've heard professional board designers say that it can go head to head against the $10K / seat commercial programs. I haven't done anything in the 3D printing world, but I've heard there are some packages that are at least competent for that. However there is NOTHING I've been able to find that is capable of even basic CNC machining g-code, let alone anything close to modern High Speed Machining (as done by things like HSM-Works) As such, Paul's proposals for OSCOMAK and other shared collections of design data seem like they would be of little use if there is no way to get the collected data into a new design that can be manufactured I've been urging the FSF to put CAD onto the 'high priority' list for years, but so far no luck... ART -- Arthur Torrey - --- ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
