Re: GPL and LGPL question

1999-05-18 Thread Seth David Schoen

Bruce Perens writes:

 I don't agree. It's just like the public-domain to GPL case. You have the
 option to distribute the program under the LGPL. You choose the GPL. You
 re-distribute that. The person to whom you redistribute it has the option to
 use the GPL, just as you did.

Sure, but the current version of OSD 7 doesn't say that.  It says that
anyone who gets a copy has to have the same legal rights that were
originally granted.

I don't personally think there's any problem left here, except that OSD 7
is unclear.  There are a few possible approaches to fixing it for greater
clarity.

Anyone who thinks that LGPL 3 is broken is certainly welcome to e-mail
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and say so.  I don't think there's any problem in it from
the perspective of the OSD: the LGPL _allows_ redistribution under the
same terms as the software was originally distributed, and developers who
write under the LGPL choose to do so, with the knowledge (hopefully) that
their efforts could possibly be distributed under the GPL.  If they don't
like that, they could write a new library public license that did most of
what the LGPL does but didn't allow the license of the covered code to
be changed.

As I see it, license-discuss is intended for discussions of whether the
Open Source Initiative should approve or disapprove of licenses under the
OSD (and whether it should make improvements and revisions to the OSD).
It's not really for discussions about whether particular licenses are
wise or unwise, although that's not an unimportant discussion.

-- 
Seth David Schoen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  They said look at the light we're giving you,  /  And the darkness
  that we're saving you from.   -- Dar Williams, "The Great Unknown"
  http://ishmael.geecs.org/~sigma/  (personal)  http://www.loyalty.org/  (CAF)



Re: GPL and LGPL question

1999-05-18 Thread Seth David Schoen

Wilfredo Sanchez writes:

   So this linking business is RMS's interpretation, but is not in  
 the license text.  I know certain other licenses get heavily  
 critiqued for being vague, but I don't see the same scrutiny applied  
 to the GPL here.

Well, that sort of scrutiny _has_ been applied to the GPL on many lists for
many years, so that many people are sick of it. :-)  Take a look at
gnu.misc.discuss, and you should find such a thread fairly quickly.

I personally have seen an interpretation-and-merits-of-GPL thread show
up on three mailing lists and two newsgroups, none of which were
license-related.  That debate has been going on for years, and it's
pretty easy to be tired of it already.

Since the OSD hasn't existed for as long as the GPL, it's a new opportunity
to try to harmonize the GPL with something or something with the GPL; most
other GPL topics have already been done to death.

Version 3 of the GPL is being written and supposedly close to release.
Many people have provided input, and there have been some _huge_
debates about what GPL v3 should contain.  I'm very optimistic that
it will fix some outstanding problems and ambiguities.

 The lack of clarity here is the biggest reason I know of why some
 companies prefer to avoid dealing with the GPL at all costs, even when
 they are open to the idea of open source in general.

There are some very solid arguments for that decision.  On the other
side, the GPL has been used with tremendous success in the past as the
license for a number of projects.  One reason that many people trust
that GPL is that it has such a long track record in comparison with
some other free software licenses.

This proves that the developers who worked on those projects, at least,
had enough confidence in the GPL to make it useful to them.  A particular
concern for companies, I know, is whether a license would stand up in
court, and whether it can be interpreted easily and clearly.  At LinuxWorld,
I talked with some license enthusiasts about whether _any_ free software
license has ever been an issue in a lawsuit.  Apparently, the answer is
no.  The current version was written with the assistance of a law professor,
but it would be an appeal to authority to say that this means that it would
hold up.  In the absence of litigation over the GPL (o si sic omnes!), each
company needs to decide for itself whether the current GPL is enforceable
and whether it contains loopholes or ambiguous wording.

 If you have some proprietary code which may ship alongside  
 GPL'ed code, you may accidentally fall into the "derived work"  
 category.  Certainly, it is reasonable to be wary of this.
 
   I realize that this is intentional; after all, proprietary code is  
 inherently evil in the eyes of the GPL's authors.  But I would argue  
 that this hardly represents freedom.  Protecting one's right to  
 share code by removing one's right not to doesn't seem like a Good  
 Thing to me.

It's a question of emulation, an extremely old tradition in computing.

-- 
Seth David Schoen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  They said look at the light we're giving you,  /  And the darkness
  that we're saving you from.   -- Dar Williams, "The Great Unknown"
  http://ishmael.geecs.org/~sigma/  (personal)  http://www.loyalty.org/  (CAF)



Re: GPL and LGPL question

1999-05-18 Thread Bruce Perens

Fred:
 Protecting one's right to  
 share code by removing one's right not to doesn't seem like a Good  
 Thing to me.  

You're not considering the unpaid contributor. If my only choice was
a license like the BSD, I would contribute a lot less. The protective
provisions of the GPL are what make the difference between my putting
in work for the community and my being the unpaid patsy of anyone who
wants to take advantage of my work and not give a thing back to the
public or me. There's no sensible reason for me to be a contributor
to Apple, Netscape, or Red Hat. The reason I do it is because the GPL
guarantees that my work is for the _public_.

Think about how different the world would have been if Mosaic had been
under the GPL.

Thanks

Bruce