Re: [License-discuss] License incompatibility (was Re: Open source license chooser choosealicense.com

2013-09-12 Thread Till Jaeger

 Therefore, my understanding of the directive is that software, that is
 independently created and exchanges information with other software through
 an interface, is independent software and not a derivative work.
 
 This is also my own understanding. But it means that linking software for
 interoperability (= for exchanging information) makes no derivatives and
 that the way of linking (statically producing a single binary or dynamic at
 runtime) is just a technical modality without substantial importance
 regarding copyright.

From the perspective of European copyright law: yes. From the perspective of
GPLv2: probably not (because of the wording of sec. 2 GPLv2).

Best,
Till
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Re: [License-discuss] License incompatibility (was Re: Open source license chooser choosealicense.com

2013-09-12 Thread John Cowan
Lawrence Rosen scripsit:

 They will refer you to the confusing
 abstraction-filtration-comparison tests that are used in the U.S.
 courts to distinguish functional from expressive content.

Some U.S. courts.  What is more, the AFC test sounds good in theory, but
is decidedly hard to apply in practice.  In any case, I am speaking here
of literal copying only.

 when talking about the principles of copyright law, your hypothesized
 examples ought to focus on the things that Bob and Alice do for
 *expressive* purposes

What on earth do _purposes_ have to do with anything?  If I write a
cookbook, I don't do it to express myself, but to explain how to cook
various dishes (and perhaps to make money).  Nonetheless, my cookbook
is copyrightable because there is more than one possible form for the
content.  Likewise, both Alice's code and Bob's code are expressive, for
there is more than one way to write each of them.

 rather than the things they do merely to allow their software to
 function together through some technical (or bizarre) form of linking.

Why bring up linking?  My hypos have to do with source-code
modification, not with linking.

 I'll apply copyright law only when Bob or Alice make their software
 prettier.

Bah.

-- 
Don't be so humble.  You're not that great. John Cowan
--Golda Meirco...@ccil.org
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Re: [License-discuss] License incompatibility (was Re: Open source license chooser choosealicense.com

2013-09-12 Thread Lawrence Rosen
John Cowan wrote:
 In any case, I am speaking here of literal copying only.

In that case, what's the problem you're hypothesizing? Every FOSS license
permits literal copying, and no FOSS license imposes a copyleft obligation
on any *other* work just because of making literal copies of the FOSS work. 

 Why bring up linking?  My hypos have to do with source-code 
 modification, not with linking.

Modified source code solely to accomplish interworking? That's almost the
same as creating a functional link between two separate programs but
instead by patching one or the other for that functional purpose only. I
contend that the differences of the methods of interworking are largely
irrelevant to the analysis.

Modified source code to change the program and its expression? That sounds
like a derivative work. 

In any event, neither is literal copying. 

/Larry


-Original Message-
From: John Cowan [mailto:co...@mercury.ccil.org] 
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 12:27 PM
To: lro...@rosenlaw.com; license-discuss@opensource.org
Subject: Re: [License-discuss] License incompatibility (was Re: Open source
license chooser choosealicense.com

Lawrence Rosen scripsit:

 They will refer you to the confusing
 abstraction-filtration-comparison tests that are used in the U.S.
 courts to distinguish functional from expressive content.

Some U.S. courts.  What is more, the AFC test sounds good in theory, but is
decidedly hard to apply in practice.  In any case, I am speaking here of
literal copying only.

 when talking about the principles of copyright law, your hypothesized 
 examples ought to focus on the things that Bob and Alice do for
 *expressive* purposes

What on earth do _purposes_ have to do with anything?  If I write a
cookbook, I don't do it to express myself, but to explain how to cook
various dishes (and perhaps to make money).  Nonetheless, my cookbook is
copyrightable because there is more than one possible form for the content.
Likewise, both Alice's code and Bob's code are expressive, for there is more
than one way to write each of them.

 rather than the things they do merely to allow their software to 
 function together through some technical (or bizarre) form of linking.

Why bring up linking?  My hypos have to do with source-code modification,
not with linking.

 I'll apply copyright law only when Bob or Alice make their software 
 prettier.

Bah.

-- 
Don't be so humble.  You're not that great. John Cowan
--Golda Meirco...@ccil.org

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