Re: [License-discuss] License incompatibility (was Re: Open source license chooser choosealicense.com

2013-09-10 Thread Gwyn Murray
Hi Til:

Thanks very much for this thoughtful analysis.  Are you planning to post to the 
ftf list as well?

G.
On Sep 10, 2013, at 10:24 AM, Till Jaeger jae...@jbb.de wrote:

 Dear list,
 
 Bradley and Larry have asked me to share my view as a European lawyer on the
 question if linking of software components (necessarily) results in a
 derivative work as understood by the GPL. In a nutshell, my thoughts are
 the following (a more comprehensive overview can be found at
 http://www.ifross.org/Druckfassung/Ziffer%202.pdf, unfortunately in German
 only):
 
 1.
 As far as I know there is no relevant case law on the question of what may
 be considered a derivative work under European copyright law for software.
 
 European software copyright law has been harmonized
 (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:111:0016:01:EN:HTML)
 since 1991.
 
 In my opinion derivative work in software law should have a different
 meaning than in other fields of copyright law.
 
 Software is typically interacting with other software, and dependencies
 (e.g. an application running on an operating system) do not necessarily mean
 that two components form a derivative work.
 
 2.
 GPLv3 refers to copyright law ('To “modify” a work means to copy from or
 adapt all or part of the work in a fashion requiring copyright permission,
 other than the making of an exact copy') whereas GPLv2 might be interpreted
 in a way that the understanding of derivative work is broader. In this
 regard the GPLv2 seems to be a bit contradictory to me. On the one hand it
 defines 'a work based on the Program'as  “either the Program or any
 derivative work under copyright law, on the other hand sec. 2 contains a
 more detailed explanation of what the term derivative work is supposed to
 mean within the scope of the GPLv2 (If identifiable sections of that work
 are not derived from the Program, and can be reasonably considered
 independent and separate works in themselves, then this License, and its
 terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute them as separate
 works.). Apparently, a computer program which is _not_ derived from GPL
 code has nonetheless to be licensed under the GPLv2 when the original GPL
 code and the program are not distributed as separate works.
 
 If you do not want to ignore that language you have to find a meaningful
 interpretation for this sentence in sec. 2 of the GPLv2. To me, it makes
 sense to understand distribute them as separate work as a formal
 criterion, i.e. distributing one binary blob makes it one work instead of
 two or more separate works. Of course, other interpretations are possible.
 
 3.
 I think it is very difficult to predict how the European Court of Justice
 (ECJ) would interpret the phrase adaptation, arrangement and any other
 alteration of a computer program as used in Article 4.1 (b) of the
 Directive 2009/24/EC.
 
 The only hint you may find is Article 6 which says that decompilation is
 allowed under certain circumstances to achieve the interoperability of an
 independently created computer program with other programs. There is a
 definition of interoperability in recital 10: 'The parts of the program
 which provide for such interconnection and interaction between elements of
 software and hardware are generally known as interfaces. This functional
 interconnection and interaction is generally known as interoperability;
 such interoperability can be defined as the ability to exchange information
 and mutually to use the information which has been exchanged. '
 
 Therefore, my understanding of the directive is that software, that is
 independently created and exchanges information with other software through
 an interface, is independent software and not a derivative work.
 
 However, it is unclear which kinds of interfaces fall within the scope of
 the directive. The text is from 1991 when Java and other object oriented
 programming was not known at that time (or not as common as it is today).
 
 4.
 If linked software should be considered a derivative work (under the
 GPLv2 and GPLv3) is truly difficult to judge. With regard to the
 aforementioned criteria I come to the following conclusions:
 
 a)
 From the perspective of copyright law the way how two parts of a program
 interact _technically_ with each other may provide an indication about the
 derivative work question. However, the technical fact by itself that two
 components are linked with each other does not necessarily lead to the
 conclusion that the combination is or is not a derivative work.
 
 b)
 If a developer modifies an existing program and puts the added code in a
 library instead of the existing files the code in the library would still be
 a derivative work. A modified program is a modified program, and one might
 not circumvent this legal effect just by moving code into a library.
 
 However, the situation might be different if an independently created
 application uses an existing standard 

Re: [License-discuss] Open source license chooser choosealicense.com launched.

2013-08-29 Thread Gwyn Murray
What she said.  

Gwyn


On Aug 28, 2013, at 12:23 PM, Roberta Cairney 
roberta.cair...@cairneylawoffices.com wrote:

 For what it is worth, I am a lawyer that does work in the open source world 
 and I have found the recent discussions, including the Rosen/Kuhn dialog, to 
 be among the interesting and valuable discussions that I've seen on this list 
 in a while.
 And yes, I have been doing open source work long enough to appreciate the 
 fact that it's not the first time that these issues have come up--the 
 discussion still has value.
 
 
 From: Lawrence Rosen lro...@rosenlaw.com
 To: license-discuss@opensource.org 
 Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 8:37 AM
 Subject: Re: [License-discuss] Open source license chooser choosealicense.com 
 launched.
 
 Hi Luis,
 
 I refuse your request to be silent. What is more important to this list than
 this discussion? I won't just sit here like a lump while Bradley and others
 continue to encourage OSI to accept erroneous theories about license
 proliferation and while various groups implement FOSS license choosers
 that ignore legal analysis.
 
 If you believe that this or any other list is overflowing, open your drain
 wider.
 
 /Larry
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Luis Villa [mailto:l...@lu.is] 
 Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 8:26 AM
 To: License Discuss; Lawrence Rosen; Bradley M. Kuhn
 Subject: Re: [License-discuss] Open source license chooser
 choosealicense.com launched.
 
 On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Bradley M. Kuhn bk...@ebb.org wrote:
 
  I don't think we need to (or should have) this debate (again) here
 
 Yes, please, let's not rehash this discussion here. It's been done many
 times, and the list is already overflowing this week.
 
 Luis
 
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Re: [License-discuss] proposal to revise and slightly reorganize the OSI licensing page [revisited]

2012-11-11 Thread Gwyn Murray
Seconding Richard's comments regarding the usefulness of the alphabetical list 
here.

G.
On Nov 11, 2012, at 5:40 PM, Richard Fontana wrote:

 On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 04:01:03PM -0800, Luis Villa wrote:
 2. REVISE /LICENSES/ : The Open Source Licensing page (replacing the
 current http://opensource.org/licenses/)  would say (hopefully all
 changes self-explanatory):
 
 
 Open source licenses are licenses that comply with the Open Source
 Definition[link] - in essence, they allow software to be used,
 modified, and redistributed without restriction. 
 
 I don't agree with the in essence part. 
 
 * In the longer term, once Drupal is upgraded, it will likely make
 sense to generate http://opensource.org/licenses/alphabetical and
 http://opensource.org/licenses/category programatically, rather than
 through the current manual listing, which is of course error-prone.
 (Some people have suggested doing away with the alphabetical list
 altogether, which I personally would be fine with.) 
 
 I've actually found the alphabetical list useful at times, FWIW.
 
 - Richard
 
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