Lose the tagline (permanently)
Dear Dev team, I don't know if this discussion has come up before, but I thought I'd bring something up that's been on my mind. I'd like to propose that we remove the tagline variable (or at least its default value). For a while now (and spurred on by some recent comments on other forums), I've felt that the automatic presence of the tagline "Music engraving by LilyPond X.Y.Z--www.lilypond.org" is annoying, a little bit cocky and a real turn-off to those who don't use LP. Naturally, it attracts attention, but shouldn't the engraving quality of the score speak for itself? In any new score I create, it has become second nature for me to set tagline = ##f because it gets in the way of the finished product. I don't even think about it anymore, I just do it. I think this is also true for most other power users. However, for those who are new, those who use it occasionally, casually, etc., they may not think to turn this off in their scores and users of other programs don't take them seriously. Instead of the LP user implying "My score looks better than yours because I used LP to do it," I'd rather have it be the non-LP user thinking "Wow! That looks so good! What program did they use?" and then come to learn it was done with LP. I say that because I've experienced both and the latter is way more fulfilling (and door-opening) than the first. Am I the only one who feels this way? I realize that the tagline has had a specific purpose, but I don't really think I've seen another program do anything like it--and for good reason. As a comparison, if LibreOffice (which I use all the time), or better yet, Microsoft Office, automatically put in their own tagline at the bottom of the last page of a document, I'D GO CRAZY and immediately search to find out how to turn it off permanently. I wouldn't want to have to turn it off for each document. That would get old real quick. Get the program out of the way and let the music do the talking. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying we should necessarily do away with the variable altogether, but just have no default value unless the user wants one there like all the other header variables. I can see that having something like the current default value printed to the page during regression tests could be useful, but really, what's the point anywhere else? I'm not sure what prompted Han-wen or Jan or whoever to set a default value to it, but I wonder if it's time for it to go? Just some thoughts. I love the quality of LP scores. Removing the default tagline value would make it even more professional (to me, at least), even for the budding new users. Feel free to shoot now. What do you all think about my proposal? Best Regards, Abraham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
Hi Abraham, Am 23.02.2016 um 13:56 schrieb Abraham Lee: > Dear Dev team, > > ... > > I'm not sure what prompted > Han-wen or Jan or whoever to set a default value to it, but I wonder if > it's time for it to go? > > Just some thoughts. I love the quality of LP scores. Removing the default > tagline value would make it even more professional (to me, at least), even > for the budding new users. Feel free to shoot now. What do you all think > about my proposal? > > Best Regards, > Abraham I think I would support letting the tagline default to "". Removing it altogether wouldn't make much sense, particularly as it would destroy all existing scores using it. I think the tagline has its purpose, for example exposing the used LilyPond version, or for implementing a "Corporate identity" like e.g. on Mutopia scores. But you are right that the tagline usually looks unprofessional. It makes more sense to *add* something for use cases that warrant a tagline than *removing* it in all other cases. So my vote goes: Unsetting tagline to "" by default: yes Removing it: no. Urs > ___ > lilypond-devel mailing list > lilypond-devel@gnu.org > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
Hello Abraham, On 23/02/16 12:56, Abraham Lee wrote: > Dear Dev team, > > I don't know if this discussion has come up before, but I thought I'd bring > something up that's been on my mind. I'd like to propose that we remove the > tagline variable (or at least its default value). For a while now (and > spurred on by some recent comments on other forums), I've felt that the > automatic presence of the tagline "Music engraving by LilyPond > X.Y.Z--www.lilypond.org" is annoying, a little bit cocky and a real > turn-off to those who don't use LP. Naturally, it attracts attention, but > shouldn't the engraving quality of the score speak for itself? > > In any new score I create, it has become second nature for me to set > tagline = ##f because it gets in the way of the finished product. I don't > even think about it anymore, I just do it. I think this is also true for > most other power users. However, for those who are new, those who use it > occasionally, casually, etc., they may not think to turn this off in their > scores and users of other programs don't take them seriously. Instead of > the LP user implying "My score looks better than yours because I used LP to > do it," I'd rather have it be the non-LP user thinking "Wow! That looks so > good! What program did they use?" and then come to learn it was done with > LP. I say that because I've experienced both and the latter is way more > fulfilling (and door-opening) than the first. > > Am I the only one who feels this way? I realize that the tagline has had a > specific purpose, but I don't really think I've seen another program do > anything like it--and for good reason. As a comparison, if LibreOffice > (which I use all the time), or better yet, Microsoft Office, automatically > put in their own tagline at the bottom of the last page of a document, I'D > GO CRAZY and immediately search to find out how to turn it off permanently. > I wouldn't want to have to turn it off for each document. That would get > old real quick. Get the program out of the way and let the music do the > talking. That's all I'm saying. > > I'm not saying we should necessarily do away with the variable altogether, > but just have no default value unless the user wants one there like all the > other header variables. I can see that having something like the current > default value printed to the page during regression tests could be useful, > but really, what's the point anywhere else? I'm not sure what prompted > Han-wen or Jan or whoever to set a default value to it, but I wonder if > it's time for it to go? > > Just some thoughts. I love the quality of LP scores. Removing the default > tagline value would make it even more professional (to me, at least), even > for the budding new users. Feel free to shoot now. What do you all think > about my proposal? I think it should stay, we document how to turn it off. I always leave mine in. I might tweak the size or change the text slightly but only that. It is not that offensive, and actually in my own opinion having used it for scores in an orchestra I used to play in when I did disable it, I was asked if I used Sibelius or Finale to produce the scores. So I left it back in and it generated a bit of interest. Were we a huge FOSS project the size of Libre Office or MS Word - which by the way pops up a huge MS Word Screen Flash every time I run the program (that I cannot turn off) then I could possibly see the point. I don't see it as cocky or a turn-off. It is what it is, and I expect that Music Publishers also have their own 'tagline' on every page of a score they produce - if only as a copyright, but often with their own name on it. What is the difference there? I am quite proud when I see that tagline on any score I 'find in the wild'. Historically see: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2005-02/msg00279.html James ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
- Original Message - From: "Abraham Lee" To: "LilyPond Development Team" Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 12:56 PM Subject: Lose the tagline (permanently) Dear Dev team, [snip] I'd vote to keep it. It's not the only program that does this: Sent from my iPad= -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
"Phil Holmes" writes: > - Original Message - > From: "Abraham Lee" > To: "LilyPond Development Team" > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 12:56 PM > Subject: Lose the tagline (permanently) > > >> Dear Dev team, > > [snip] > > I'd vote to keep it. Same here. When people don't mind, it gives us exposure and reassurance. When people mind, it's reasonably straightforward to turn off or change. Mutopia tended to have a severely overengineered tagline, I think they toned it down by now. I do agree that it should be unobtrusive, but I think that the LilyPond tagline meets that bar. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 7:00 AM, David Kastrup wrote: > "Phil Holmes" writes: > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Abraham Lee" > > To: "LilyPond Development Team" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 12:56 PM > > Subject: Lose the tagline (permanently) > > > > > >> Dear Dev team, > > > > [snip] > > > > I'd vote to keep it. > > Same here. When people don't mind, it gives us exposure and > reassurance. When people mind, it's reasonably straightforward to turn > off or change. > > Mutopia tended to have a severely overengineered tagline, I think they > toned it down by now. I do agree that it should be unobtrusive, but I > think that the LilyPond tagline meets that bar. > Thanks, everyone, for your honest opinions (especially about the old Mutopia tagline, which I agree with--it looks much cleaner now). I appreciate that. I guess there will always be someone who does/doesn't like this kind of thing. As long as it remains simple and unobtrusive and can be deactivated at will, I suppose that will do. On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 6:11 AM, James wrote: > I think it should stay, we document how to turn it off. I always leave > mine in. I might tweak the size or change the text slightly but only that. > > It is not that offensive, and actually in my own opinion having used it > for scores in an orchestra I used to play in when I did disable it, I > was asked if I used Sibelius or Finale to produce the scores. > I would doubt this was due to an apparent level of quality, but more of a "Well, everyone seems to use S/F, so which did you use?" kind of thing. I'd be willing to bet it was a question of expectation rather than accusation. > So I left it back in and it generated a bit of interest. > Like I said, it definitely catches the reader's attention, which at least makes people think about the program. > Were we a huge FOSS project the size of Libre Office or MS Word - which > by the way pops up a huge MS Word Screen Flash every time I run the > program (that I cannot turn off) then I could possibly see the point. > That's my point exactly. Sibelius suffers from a similar case of narcissism with its fanfare-filled startup (that thankfully can be turned off). Maybe have it pop up the first time, but it's really not necessary/wanted after that. > I don't see it as cocky or a turn-off. It is what it is, and I expect > that Music Publishers also have their own 'tagline' on every page of a > score they produce - if only as a copyright, but often with their own > name on it. What is the difference there? > I see what you're saying, but that's a little different. This is the user imposing their own tagline, not the program. I have no problem with the publisher putting on their own stamp, which I've usually seen as very unobtrusive, almost not even there on the actual music pages. There probably is *someone* out there that does this, but I don't think this is that common. > I am quite proud when I see that tagline on any score I 'find in the wild'. > I agree, I just hope we get to the point that we, too, can say "that score looks so good, it must have been done with LP!" rather than relying on the tagline to tell us. > Historically see: > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2005-02/msg00279.html Thanks for pointing to that thread. Nice to see what the original motivation was. Have a great day, everybody! You're all the best! Very grateful for all you do to keep the LP wheels turning and improving. - Abraham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music function for arrow directions in arpeggios
On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Malte Meyn wrote:
>
>
> Am 23.02.2016 um 15:52 schrieb Caio Giovaneti de Barros:
>
>> I'm trying to write a function to make easier for me to change arrow
>> directions in arpeggios.
>>
>
> I would prefer an event function with a tweak:
>
> \version "2.19.36"
>
> arpeggioUp = \tweak arpeggio-direction #UP \arpeggio
>
> \relative c' { \arpeggioUp }
>
I like this a lot and I feel like I've seen this exact discussion before,
but it didn't result in any core changes.
Dev Team,
Any reason \arpeggioArrowUp and \arpeggioArrowDown can't be defined this
way from the beginning? Is there a use-case where the "\arpeggioArrowUp \arpeggio" way is necessary?
Best,
Abraham
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Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
Might I add, LilyPond is a rather exotic alternative compared to most other commercial project. The project as a whole needs visibility to gain recognition. Could this default tag be seen as a survival feature for the project? I am trying to show (or just explain) my LilyPond/Git/LaTeX workflow to my friends who are fully into music writing; they just don't see it worth the trouble. But when they see the quality of the result, they are thrown away. I explicitly want them to know that it was LilyPond made. As for LilyPond users that do not care, I strongly suggest that it be tagged as a LilyPond made score by default. Back when LilyPond was just an possible alternative in the back of my mind, while wandering through the web, I started paying attention at that tag at the bottom. The more I saw that tag, the more I realized that LilyPond could indeed used and therefore be usable by most anybody. My extremely non technology savvy mother knows about LibreOffice. Most of my professional music colleagues have never even heard of LilyPond. I think it is an issue. My default bottom tag I use is quite extensive but in the context in which I work demands an extremely clear version of a given arrangement as it changes for week to week. I happen to think that this default tag line in a bit too much though. I do think that just "LilyPond 2.19.36" with the link inside it is quite enough information to give to someone actually interested in how this music was written. At one extreme I think that cocky advertisement obviously does not have its place in a FOSS project, and on the other, I think that LilyPond needs the visibility. But then again, in all my project I \include "../myLilypondSlippers.ily" and I am good to go with a tag line I actually want to use. Thanks for the conversation. -- *Pierre-Luc Gauthier* ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 9:23 AM, Pierre-Luc Gauthier [via Lilypond] < ml-node+s1069038n187606...@n5.nabble.com> wrote: > Might I add, > > LilyPond is a rather exotic alternative compared to most other commercial > project. > The project as a whole needs visibility to gain recognition. > Could this default tag be seen as a survival feature for the project? > > I am trying to show (or just explain) my LilyPond/Git/LaTeX workflow to my > friends who are fully into music writing; they just don't see it worth the > trouble. > But when they see the quality of the result, they are thrown away. I > explicitly want them to know that it was LilyPond made. > > As for LilyPond users that do not care, I strongly suggest that it be > tagged as a LilyPond made score by default. > > Back when LilyPond was just an possible alternative in the back of my > mind, > while wandering through the web, I started paying attention at that tag at > the bottom. > The more I saw that tag, the more I realized that LilyPond could indeed > used and therefore be usable by most anybody. > > My extremely non technology savvy mother knows about LibreOffice. > Most of my professional music colleagues have never even heard of > LilyPond. > I think it is an issue. > > My default bottom tag I use is quite extensive but in the context in which > I work demands an extremely clear version of a given arrangement as it > changes for week to week. > > I happen to think that this default tag line in a bit too much though. > > I do think that just "LilyPond 2.19.36" with the link inside it is quite > enough information to give to someone actually interested in how this > music > was written. > > At one extreme I think that cocky advertisement obviously does not have > its > place in a FOSS project, and on the other, I think that LilyPond needs the > visibility. > But then again, in all my project I \include "../myLilypondSlippers.ily" > and I am good to go with a tag line I actually want to use. > > Thanks for the conversation. > Thanks for sharing, Pierre. That's a great insight. - Abraham -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Lose-the-tagline-permanently-tp187587p187607.html Sent from the Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
Hi all,
> On Feb 23, 2016, at 8:11 AM, James wrote:
>
> I might tweak the size or change the text slightly but only that.
I like the idea of making the font size smaller, to make it more subtle. Maybe
something in the ballpark of \teeny ...compare:
\version "2.19.36"
\header {
% %{
tagline = \markup
\teeny
% \fontsize #-3
"Music engraving by LilyPond 2.19.36 – www.lilypond.org"
%}
}
{ c’ }
Cheers,
-Paul
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Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
Paul Morris writes:
> Hi all,
>
>> On Feb 23, 2016, at 8:11 AM, James wrote:
>>
>> I might tweak the size or change the text slightly but only that.
>
> I like the idea of making the font size smaller, to make it more
> subtle. Maybe something in the ballpark of \teeny ...compare:
>
> \version "2.19.36"
> \header {
> % %{
> tagline = \markup
> \teeny
> % \fontsize #-3
> "Music engraving by LilyPond 2.19.36 – www.lilypond.org"
> %}
> }
> { c’ }
A bit pointless since the tagline positioning takes up the same amount
of space either way. I mean, the message "you could retypeset this in
original quality using LilyPond when this has been photocopied too
often" should not be the first item becoming illegible...
--
David Kastrup
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Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
Il giorno mar 23 feb 2016 alle 17:22, Pierre-Luc Gauthier ha scritto: I am trying to show (or just explain) my LilyPond/Git/LaTeX workflow to my friends who are fully into music writing; they just don't see it worth the trouble. But when they see the quality of the result, they are thrown away. I explicitly want them to know that it was LilyPond made. I experienced exactly the same. If LilyPond had a true (and modern) GUI interface, it would probably be the most used notation software. BTW, people often ask me which software I used even if I didn't remove the tagline. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
Hi Abraham,
I agree with you. I always change it or remove it for the following reasons:
1) It is in *English* and would be the only English part in my otherwise
German score – that looks just unprofessional. That's the most important
part for me.
2) In general such a phrase looks *unprofessional* to me – more like
some crappy shareware from old times (that Apple does it with "sent from
my iPhone" doesn't make it better).
3) People might be *scared away* because of this. And as people know
this from demo versions, some think you can not or are not allowed to
remove this line they don't like.
What I usually do is to set the tag line to "LilyPond 2.19" or the thing
below [1]. That is a) language independent b) short c) contains all
relevant information.
Cheers,
Joram
[1]:
tagline = \markup
\with-url #"http://lilypond.org"; \line {
"Lilypond"
#(string-join
(map (lambda (x) (if (symbol? x)
(symbol->string x)
(number->string x)))
(list-head (ly:version) 2))
".")
"– www.lilypond.org"
}
% for online distribution the www part can be dropped, it is intended
% for printed scores which don't profit from the link.
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Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
Hi Am 23.02.2016 um 15:00 schrieb David Kastrup: > I do agree that it should be unobtrusive, but I > think that the LilyPond tagline meets that bar. As I wrote in my other mail, I would vote to drop the "music engraving with" part as it is not language independent and does not provide more information (you can probably see from the score that it is about music). Cheers, Joram ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
On 23.02.2016 18:42, Noeck wrote: 1) It is in*English* and would be the only English part in my otherwise German score – that looks just unprofessional. That's the most important part for me. Some time ago I made a proposal of having the \language command automatically translate this and other fixed texts – it didn’t meet much enthusiasm, but I’d like it… Best, Simon ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
On 23.02.2016 13:56, Abraham Lee wrote: In any new score I create, it has become second nature for me to set tagline = ##f because it gets in the way of the finished product. In any new score I create, I first do \include "standard-include.ily" in order to have all default stylesheet, aliases and other custom stuff readily at hand. Such an include may feature turning off the tagline, or always replacing it in another language. Best, Simon ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
Federico Bruni writes: > Il giorno mar 23 feb 2016 alle 17:22, Pierre-Luc Gauthier > ha scritto: >> I am trying to show (or just explain) my LilyPond/Git/LaTeX workflow >> to my >> friends who are fully into music writing; they just don't see it >> worth the >> trouble. >> But when they see the quality of the result, they are thrown away. I >> explicitly want them to know that it was LilyPond made. > > I experienced exactly the same. If LilyPond had a true (and modern) > GUI interface, There is Denemo. > it would probably be the most used notation software. That's a bit like "If PostScript had a true (and modern) GUI interface, it would probably be the most used graphics software." Tailor on the NeXT (which ran via Display PostScript) was actually pretty good at manipulating existing PostScript and EPS files. Alas, it went the way of all proprietary software. Though http://blackholeinc.com/catalog/software/Software/Graphics/Tailor.shtml> looks like it "merely" became both very obscure and rather expensive (compared to today's platform prices). At any rate, the moment a "GUI" is expected to deal with preexisting code not created with its help, stuff becomes pretty tricky. > BTW, people often ask me which software I used even if I didn't remove > the tagline. It's actually not that often that we get the "I installed it and it didn't do anything" complaint. If people just looked for a download by name (rather than looking at our web site) I'd expect more. On the other hand, they might never find a pointer to a mailing list either before dropping out again. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Embed LilyPond source files inside generated PDF (issue 225040043 by v.villen...@gmail.com)
On 2016/02/23 18:07:39, Valentin Villenave wrote: Access source files only through LilyPond. It would be nice if we could specify an author/description for each source file... but as far as I can see, there are a bunch of "not implemented yet" in Ghostscript: http://git.ghostscript.com/?p=ghostpdl.git;a=blob;f=devices/vector/gdevpdfm.c#l1531 (plus, line 1531 makes me cry :-) https://codereview.appspot.com/225040043/ ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
Noeck writes: > Hi > > Am 23.02.2016 um 15:00 schrieb David Kastrup: >> I do agree that it should be unobtrusive, but I >> think that the LilyPond tagline meets that bar. > > As I wrote in my other mail, I would vote to drop the "music engraving > with" part as it is not language independent and does not provide more > information (you can probably see from the score that it is about music). I'm sympathetic to such a change. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
Noeck writes:
> Hi Abraham,
>
> I agree with you. I always change it or remove it for the following reasons:
>
> 1) It is in *English* and would be the only English part in my otherwise
> German score – that looks just unprofessional. That's the most important
> part for me.
So let's try cutting it down to something language independent and
short. Like
𝄵 www.lilypond.org
> 2) In general such a phrase looks *unprofessional* to me – more like
> some crappy shareware from old times (that Apple does it with "sent
> from my iPhone" doesn't make it better).
Shrug. Professional and unheard of does not help us.
> 3) People might be *scared away* because of this. And as people know
> this from demo versions, some think you can not or are not allowed to
> remove this line they don't like.
> What I usually do is to set the tag line to "LilyPond 2.19" or the thing
> below [1]. That is a) language independent b) short c) contains all
> relevant information.
Well:
> [1]:
> tagline = \markup
> \with-url #"http://lilypond.org"; \line {
> "Lilypond"
> #(string-join
> (map (lambda (x) (if (symbol? x)
>(symbol->string x)
>(number->string x)))
> (list-head (ly:version) 2))
> ".")
> "– www.lilypond.org"
> }
>
> % for online distribution the www part can be dropped, it is intended
> % for printed scores which don't profit from the link.
The fate of PDF is to be printed. Particularly those who have never
heard of LilyPond are rather likely to receive a piece of paper rather
than a PDF file.
--
David Kastrup
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Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
Hi,
>> 1) It is in *English* ...
>
> So let's try cutting it down to something language independent and
> short. Like
>
> 𝄵 www.lilypond.org
What is the tiny symbol in front of the url? A time signature but why?
>> 2) In general such a phrase looks *unprofessional* to me ...
>
> Shrug. Professional and unheard of does not help us.
I agree with that.
>> % for online distribution the www part can be dropped, it is intended
>> % for printed scores which don't profit from the link.
>
> The fate of PDF is to be printed. Particularly those who have never
> heard of LilyPond are rather likely to receive a piece of paper rather
> than a PDF file.
Yes, that's why I mostly (always?) keep the website. On the other hand,
people are used to enter search terms in their browser to find out more.
so it is more an invitation ("you can/will find more online") than
really required information.
Cheers,
Joram
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Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 8:00 PM, Noeck wrote: > What is the tiny symbol in front of the url? A time signature but why? Looks like a hack/pun around the © glyph. I like it. (Reminds me of http://artlibre.org/wp-content/copyleft2.jpg) I may be nitpicking here, but is there a reason why we should keep the "www." prefix in the printed URL? The actual website has never required it (and it looks a bit more elegant without). Besides, there are a few Libre software projects that rely on a www-less .org domain name: OpenOffice.org (de profundis), Xorg, etc. At any rate, I’d certainly vote to keep some sort of a tagline (but keeping it l10ned or language-independant would be swell). Cheers, Valentin. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
Hi David, > On Feb 23, 2016, at 12:12 PM, David Kastrup wrote: > > Paul Morris writes: > >>> On Feb 23, 2016, at 8:11 AM, James wrote: >>> >>> I might tweak the size or change the text slightly but only that. >> >> I like the idea of making the font size smaller, to make it more >> subtle. Maybe something in the ballpark of \teeny ...compare: >> >> [snip] > > A bit pointless since the tagline positioning takes up the same amount > of space either way. Well, it would be possible to change the positioning to match the change in the size of the text. Although, even with the same positioning it’s a matter of visual ‘weight’ on the page rather than how much actual space it takes up. > I mean, the message "you could retypeset this in > original quality using LilyPond when this has been photocopied too > often" should not be the first item becoming illegible... Point taken, although, strategically speaking, once the photocopying quality gets that bad, we might be better off if our name wasn’t legible. Anyway, it’s just a way to make it more unobtrusive without getting rid of it entirely. Cheers, -Paul ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
Hi Joram, > On Feb 23, 2016, at 12:48 PM, Noeck wrote: > > As I wrote in my other mail, I would vote to drop the "music engraving > with" part as it is not language independent and does not provide more > information (you can probably see from the score that it is about music). Well, FWIW, I think it does provide more information. Without that part there’s nothing that indicates what “LilyPond" is. People might assume that “LilyPond” is a publisher, a website where you can download sheet music, or not know what it is. A way to easily and/or automatically translate that part would help though. Cheers, -Paul ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
Valentin Villenave writes:
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 8:00 PM, Noeck wrote:
>> What is the tiny symbol in front of the url? A time signature but why?
>
> Looks like a hack/pun around the © glyph. I like it. (Reminds me of
> http://artlibre.org/wp-content/copyleft2.jpg)
Well, it was also a pun around brevity.
> I may be nitpicking here, but is there a reason why we should keep the
> "www." prefix in the printed URL? The actual website has never
> required it (and it looks a bit more elegant without).
Sounds reasonable.
Ok, this is silly...
\paper {
tagline =
\markup
\score {
\new StaffGroup
{ g''8 g'8 \lyrics { "http://lilypond.org"; 2 } g'8 g''8 }
\layout {
indent = 0
\context {
\Staff
\magnifyStaff 0.5
\override StaffSymbol.line-count = 0
\remove "Bar_engraver"
\remove "Time_signature_engraver"
\remove "Key_engraver"
\remove "Clef_engraver"
}
\context {
\StaffGroup
\consists "Axis_group_engraver"
\remove "Vertical_align_engraver"
}
}
}
}
{ \time 3/4 c'4 e' g' c''2. }
--
David Kastrup
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Re: Music function for arrow directions in arpeggios
Hi, > I like this a lot and I feel like I've seen this exact discussion > before, but it didn't result in any core changes. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2015-01/msg00908.html > Dev Team, > > Any reason \arpeggioArrowUp and \arpeggioArrowDown can't be defined this > way from the beginning? Is there a use-case where the "\arpeggioArrowUp > \arpeggio" way is necessary? I think at first it was just a property that could be set with an override. Then this was put into a command for convenience http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/grand-predefined-command-thread-td109680.html#a109692 However, the names \arpeggioUp and \arpeggioDown are still free and would me much more lilypondish. Best, Joram ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
> On Feb 23, 2016, at 16:14 , David Kastrup wrote: > >> I may be nitpicking here, but is there a reason why we should keep the >> "www." prefix in the printed URL? The actual website has never >> required it (and it looks a bit more elegant without). > > Sounds reasonable. > > Ok, this is silly... Making the tag language-independent is a good idea. Turning the URL into a hyperlink would be an improvement. I think it’s a mistake to remove the version number. — Dan ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music function for arrow directions in arpeggios
On Feb 23, 2016, at 16:22 , Noeck wrote: > > Hi, > >> I like this a lot and I feel like I've seen this exact discussion >> before, but it didn't result in any core changes. > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2015-01/msg00908.html > >> Dev Team, >> >> Any reason \arpeggioArrowUp and \arpeggioArrowDown can't be defined this >> way from the beginning? Is there a use-case where the "\arpeggioArrowUp >> \arpeggio" way is necessary? > > I think at first it was just a property that could be set with an > override. Then this was put into a command for convenience > http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/grand-predefined-command-thread-td109680.html#a109692 > However, the names \arpeggioUp and \arpeggioDown are still free and > would me much more lilypondish. Is this a case where attaching an arpeggio to a chord with ^ or _ should make a difference, or do I misunderstand the point of those characters? — Dan ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Lose the tagline (permanently)
Dan Eble writes: >> On Feb 23, 2016, at 16:14 , David Kastrup wrote: >> >>> I may be nitpicking here, but is there a reason why we should keep the >>> "www." prefix in the printed URL? The actual website has never >>> required it (and it looks a bit more elegant without). >> >> Sounds reasonable. >> >> Ok, this is silly... > > > Making the tag language-independent is a good idea. > > Turning the URL into a hyperlink would be an improvement. > > I think it’s a mistake to remove the version number. Oh, this was not intended as a full proposal: too heavy-handed for that. I agree that the version number makes sense: it tells the insiders what version was used and whether recompilation of the source (wherever one may find it) might be a good idea. And it tells the non-insiders that this is talking about a piece of software rather than a publishing house, without getting language-dependent for that. Pretty good deal for a few numbers. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music function for arrow directions in arpeggios
Am 24.02.2016 um 00:08 schrieb Dan Eble: > Is this a case where attaching an arpeggio to a chord with ^ or _ should make > a difference, or do I misunderstand the point of those characters? That was also discussed in the old thread. Not conclusive but with more insights than I have: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2015-01/msg00365.html ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Doc: NR: 3.x Clarification for \keepWithTag and fix Typo in example (issue 279140043 by pkx1...@gmail.com)
https://codereview.appspot.com/279140043/diff/60001/Documentation/notation/input.itely
File Documentation/notation/input.itely (right):
https://codereview.appspot.com/279140043/diff/60001/Documentation/notation/input.itely#newcode2319
Documentation/notation/input.itely:2319: \tag #'D { d4 d d d }
On 2016/02/21 12:17:12, simon.albrecht wrote:
I’d suggest having one untagged hunk as well, to clarify behaviour on
these.
Can you give me the full example you'd like?
https://codereview.appspot.com/279140043/diff/60001/Documentation/notation/input.itely#newcode2323
Documentation/notation/input.itely:2323: \keepWithTag #'(A B)
On 2016/02/22 17:05:13, dak wrote:
On 2016/02/21 12:17:12, simon.albrecht wrote:
> I do think we should advertise the proper LilyPond syntax of
> \keepWithTag A.B
> here. It’s quite easier to type and nicer. I’d also prefer
> \tag A {}
> over
> \tag #'A {}
> but I don’t know if this is enough of a ‘standard’ – David?
Tags tended to be chosen in ways not matching a LilyPond "word", for
example
containing numbers. Since they are not used as \word but only ever as
symbols,
there was no incentive to choose them compatibly before x.y acquired a
Scheme-level meaning.
Sigh.
OK that means nothing to me (gobbledygook) and now I don't know what to
do with this information and the Patch remains stuck.
From what I *think* this means you are saying that unless I use a naming
convention for my Tags that are 'simple' and without numbers or spaces
or something else I have to use #' i.e.
\keepWithTag #'(violin2) {a b c d}
versus just
\keepWithTag violin {a b c d}
?
It doesn't hurt to explain when someone needs to use '# and I can figure
out how to express that in the doc but I don't really understand fully
what is being discussed here.
https://codereview.appspot.com/279140043/diff/60001/Documentation/notation/input.itely#newcode2330
Documentation/notation/input.itely:2330: @code{#'D}.
On 2016/02/21 12:17:12, simon.albrecht wrote:
I’d suggest
‘will only print music tagged @code{A} or @code{B} (and untagged
music).’
(Is it overkill to mark single letters as @code{}?)
No. Users don't read the 'source' for doc and if we'd need to (for
example) italicize the text we'd need to use markups for that too.
But I should perhaps use @var instead of @code as these are ..what does
the CG call them? Ah yes.. 'metasyntactic variables'.
;)
https://codereview.appspot.com/279140043/
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PATCHES: Countdown for February 27th
Hello, Here is the current patch countdown list. The next countdown will be on February 27th. A quick synopsis of all patches currently in the review process can be found here: http://philholmes.net/lilypond/allura/ __ Push: 4775 Doc: NR renamed New spacing area node - James Lowe https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/4775 http://codereview.appspot.com/283350043 4774 Doc: NR and Usage - improved links for SVG - James Lowe https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/4774 http://codereview.appspot.com/282620043 4773 Doc: CG Updated section 1.3 - experienced devs - James Lowe https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/4773 http://codereview.appspot.com/287110043 4771 Web: CSS: improve heading styles - Paul Morris https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/4771 http://codereview.appspot.com/290790043 Countdown: 4776 svg output: better defaults for font-family - Paul Morris https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/4776 http://codereview.appspot.com/290850043 4761 Doc: NR - Issue 4761 - changing-defaults.itely: Various improvements - James Lowe https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/4761 http://codereview.appspot.com/290270043 4737 Add XeTeX for document building - Masamichi Hosoda https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/4737 http://codereview.appspot.com/285790043 Review: 4677 NR - Issue 4677 - input.itely: Various improvements - James Lowe https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/4677 http://codereview.appspot.com/279140043 4399 Patch: Add French-specific note names - v_villenave https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/4399 http://codereview.appspot.com/239930043 2643 Attach lilypond source in pdf - v_villenave https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/2643 http://codereview.appspot.com/225040043 New: No new patches at this time. Waiting: 4600 Let notes/rests suppress multi-measure rest grobs - Dan Eble https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/4600 http://codereview.appspot.com/265160043 __ James ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
