[gmane.comp.gnu.lilypond.general] Re: Transposing instruments
Ok, sorry for the bottom quote, but I'd like to get the context into the
developer list.
Shouldn't we have a command
\transposing f { ... }
(better naming suggestions welcome) that does transposition and Midi
correction in lockstep? Is anybody willing to count how _often_ this
question pops up, and how often people get confused trying to get score
and Midi to look and sound right?
It is not all that hard to explain, but it is one thing that new users
and helpful experienced users should not be wasting hours with. And
make no mistake, they are.
--- Begin Message ---
Guy Stalnaker writes:
> I used to think I was smart :-\
>
> I'm arranging some church hymns for six-part instruments, Flute, 2
> Violins, 2 F Horns, 1 cello.
>
> Hymn is in F major. Arrangement is notated in LP in F major.
That means you have notation that is in pitch, and you want it to look a
fifth higher.
> How do I get the Horn parts correctly engraved in the proper key? I
> have tried
>
> \transpose f c'
Should be perfect. Can you show what problem you had here?
> \transpose bf f'
Looks equivalent (assuming English note language where bf is b flat).
> But no matter what I select the midi output is horribly wrong.
\transpose transposes everything completely, Midi and score. So the
Midi is a fifth too high.
There is a Midi-only command for _then_ telling LilyPond that the
instrument is transposed. So you need to place your horn part within
\transpose f c' { \transposition f ... }
in order to have the visuals go up one fifth, and have the Midi
compensate for that.
--
David Kastrup
--- End Message ---
--
David Kastrup
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Re: [gmane.comp.gnu.lilypond.general] Re: Transposing instruments
all,
2013/1/30 David Kastrup :
>
> Ok, sorry for the bottom quote, but I'd like to get the context into the
> developer list.
>
> Shouldn't we have a command
>
> \transposing f { ... }
>
> (better naming suggestions welcome) that does transposition and Midi
> correction in lockstep? Is anybody willing to count how _often_ this
> question pops up, and how often people get confused trying to get score
> and Midi to look and sound right?
>
> It is not all that hard to explain, but it is one thing that new users
> and helpful experienced users should not be wasting hours with. And
> make no mistake, they are.
I think we have to keep the two parameters to distinguish between
transposing written c' to sounding f (standard horn notation in treble clef)
or f' (standard horn notation in bass clef).
p
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Re: [gmane.comp.gnu.lilypond.general] Re: Transposing instruments
Benkő Pál writes:
> all,
>
> 2013/1/30 David Kastrup :
>>
>> Ok, sorry for the bottom quote, but I'd like to get the context into the
>> developer list.
>>
>> Shouldn't we have a command
>>
>> \transposing f { ... }
>>
>> (better naming suggestions welcome) that does transposition and Midi
>> correction in lockstep? Is anybody willing to count how _often_ this
>> question pops up, and how often people get confused trying to get score
>> and Midi to look and sound right?
>>
>> It is not all that hard to explain, but it is one thing that new users
>> and helpful experienced users should not be wasting hours with. And
>> make no mistake, they are.
>
> I think we have to keep the two parameters to distinguish between
> transposing written c' to sounding f (standard horn notation in treble clef)
> or f' (standard horn notation in bass clef).
Wouldn't that be covered by using
\transposing f (notation in treble clef, written c' is f) vs
\transposing f' (notation in bass clef, written c' is f') ?
--
David Kastrup
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Re: [gmane.comp.gnu.lilypond.general] Re: Transposing instruments
2013/1/30 David Kastrup :
> Benkő Pál writes:
>
>> all,
>>
>> 2013/1/30 David Kastrup :
>>>
>>> Ok, sorry for the bottom quote, but I'd like to get the context into the
>>> developer list.
>>>
>>> Shouldn't we have a command
>>>
>>> \transposing f { ... }
>>>
>>> (better naming suggestions welcome) that does transposition and Midi
>>> correction in lockstep? Is anybody willing to count how _often_ this
>>> question pops up, and how often people get confused trying to get score
>>> and Midi to look and sound right?
>>>
>>> It is not all that hard to explain, but it is one thing that new users
>>> and helpful experienced users should not be wasting hours with. And
>>> make no mistake, they are.
>>
>> I think we have to keep the two parameters to distinguish between
>> transposing written c' to sounding f (standard horn notation in treble clef)
>> or f' (standard horn notation in bass clef).
>
> Wouldn't that be covered by using
> \transposing f (notation in treble clef, written c' is f) vs
> \transposing f' (notation in bass clef, written c' is f') ?
yes, of course, sorry for the confusion.
p
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Re: [gmane.comp.gnu.lilypond.general] Re: Transposing instruments
David Kastrup gnu.org> writes:
> Shouldn't we have a command
>
> \transposing f { ... }
>
> (better naming suggestions welcome) that does transposition and Midi
> correction in lockstep?
I assume the command would produce the music that we currently get from
{\transposition f \transpose f c' {...}}
In that case it seems like a good idea, because it serves the
second-most-common of the three use-cases:
1) Make the sounding pitches (for midi and cues) different from written.
Such as when transcribing existing music, or when writing for transposing
instruments where you need to consider the instrument capabilities. Often
the transposition changes in the middle of the music, because transposing
instruments are the ones that performers most often need to exchange, so
it is good that this is done with a property-set in \transposition
2) Transpose written pitches, but leave sounding pitches alone.
Such as when arranging music (written at concert pitch) among different
instruments:
{\transposition bes \transpose bes c' {...} }
3) Shift pitches, both sounding and written.
When producing an alternate score at higher pitch, maybe for a particular
singer's range, if the music involves cues or midi. Except for the
complications of issue 754, this is done with simply \transpose c d {...}
Maybe documenting the existing \transpose and \transposition better would
be enough. In any case, the first thing to do is resolve issue 754.
Documenting transposing instruments in LilyPond is tricky with that bug,
because we either run into the bug, or teach how to depend on the bug.
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