Re: Black mensural notation in current Lilypond
Just happened to see this post by chance, after being away from the list for a long while. I've actually been working on the package again during the last weeks. It's now implemented in a much less hackish fashion and works decently well for me both for white and for black notation. I was going to present a new draft of it to the community some time during the next months. Michael, if you want to see the current state of it, please feel free to contact me privately. Lukas -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Black-mensural-notation-in-current-Lilypond-tp159959p160012.html Sent from the Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Black mensural notation in current Lilypond
(First of all, I'm not subscribed to this list, so I'd appreciate it if you copied me at mich...@mcclimon.org on replies to this.) In the past, I've used Lukas Pietsch's Black Mensural plugin (http://www.lukas-pietsch.de/Music/blackmensural.ly) to set black mensural notation. It works pretty well with Lilypond 2.12, but less good on newer versions of Lilypond. The spacing and whatnot is often way off, for example, with noteheads colliding into one another, and ligatures frequently don't work. I'm pretty sure there were some changes in Lilypond 2.14 to the mensural plugin, which breaks certain aspects of the plugin. (Lukas's original thread introducing the Black Mensural stuff is at http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2011-01/msg00088.html) I'm willing to work on his plugin to get it to work properly on recent Lilyponds, but I'm not very familiar with Lilypond internals, especially when it comes to the mensural stuff. I'm hoping that someone here with more knowledge might be able to lend a hand, or at least point me in the right direction as to where would be a good place to start. Thanks, Michael -- mich...@mcclimon.org http://chmtl.indiana.edu ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation in current Lilypond
- Original Message - From: MIchael McClimon mich...@mcclimon.org To: lilypond-devel@gnu.org Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 3:08 PM Subject: Black mensural notation in current Lilypond (First of all, I'm not subscribed to this list, so I'd appreciate it if you copied me at mich...@mcclimon.org on replies to this.) We traditionally reply all on this list, when we remember. In the past, I've used Lukas Pietsch's Black Mensural plugin (http://www.lukas-pietsch.de/Music/blackmensural.ly) to set black mensural notation. It works pretty well with Lilypond 2.12, but less good on newer versions of Lilypond. The spacing and whatnot is often way off, for example, with noteheads colliding into one another, and ligatures frequently don't work. I'm pretty sure there were some changes in Lilypond 2.14 to the mensural plugin, which breaks certain aspects of the plugin. (Lukas's original thread introducing the Black Mensural stuff is at http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2011-01/msg00088.html) I'm willing to work on his plugin to get it to work properly on recent Lilyponds, but I'm not very familiar with Lilypond internals, especially when it comes to the mensural stuff. I'm hoping that someone here with more knowledge might be able to lend a hand, or at least point me in the right direction as to where would be a good place to start. You might start by looking at updating the syntax of the included file with convert-ly: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/usage/updating-files-with-convert_002dly -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
This looks like Issue 1098. That one was closed due to lack of reproducible scenario: my scores, too, were crashing Lilypond after growing above a certain size, but just like in your case, I can not reproduce it with a simple \repeat. On 11-01-16 12:57 PM, Benkő Pál wrote: following up myself: [ after complaining about my large scores ] This seems to work (at least, the regtests are OK and it doesn't appear to break the interaction between page-count and systems-per-page): [...] I don't know why, though. :) it works for me in the sense that there's no memory problem, but doesn't work in the sense that now I get an overflow message. those larger scores mean about 30 pages, chunked into 14 \score's. when I comment them out one by one, there's a stage (at about 10 \score's over 27 pages) when compilation with the official version achieves similar results: gets through without swapping but with overflow messages. when compiling, about 30 seconds are needed to reach the Fitting music on 26 or 27 pages... message, then for 3 more minutes nothing happens (even memory usage is at the same level (minus a slight increase from 864m to 906mat half time)), then it's over in about 10 seconds. adding one more score induces immediate swapping in the Fitting music... stage - I've killed compilation at 44 seconds after eating 3600m. after applying your patch the breaks are different, the overall result is of about the same quality, but the middle section takes 3 seconds instead of minutes. unfortunately I couldn't reproduce this behaviour with a file with \repeat unfold music copy-pasted into 20 \score's. I'll try to understand what goes on, but am not too confident. if needed, I can post my .ly files. p ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
On 1/23/11 6:20 AM, Boris Shingarov b...@shingarov.com wrote: This looks like Issue 1098. That one was closed due to lack of reproducible scenario: my scores, too, were crashing Lilypond after growing above a certain size, but just like in your case, I can not reproduce it with a simple \repeat. Please check out issue 1475. It has a reproducible Tiny example, and a comment from Joe on why the issue occurs. You might get some ideas for how you could check to see if the problem with your score is related to 1475. Thanks, Carl ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
following up myself: [ after complaining about my large scores ] This seems to work (at least, the regtests are OK and it doesn't appear to break the interaction between page-count and systems-per-page): [...] I don't know why, though. :) it works for me in the sense that there's no memory problem, but doesn't work in the sense that now I get an overflow message. those larger scores mean about 30 pages, chunked into 14 \score's. when I comment them out one by one, there's a stage (at about 10 \score's over 27 pages) when compilation with the official version achieves similar results: gets through without swapping but with overflow messages. when compiling, about 30 seconds are needed to reach the Fitting music on 26 or 27 pages... message, then for 3 more minutes nothing happens (even memory usage is at the same level (minus a slight increase from 864m to 906mat half time)), then it's over in about 10 seconds. adding one more score induces immediate swapping in the Fitting music... stage - I've killed compilation at 44 seconds after eating 3600m. after applying your patch the breaks are different, the overall result is of about the same quality, but the middle section takes 3 seconds instead of minutes. unfortunately I couldn't reproduce this behaviour with a file with \repeat unfold music copy-pasted into 20 \score's. I'll try to understand what goes on, but am not too confident. if needed, I can post my .ly files. p ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
Karl == Karl Hammar k...@aspodata.se writes: Karl On line 22 in the ly-file: Karl %% Accidentals are valid only once (same as Karl Shouldn't the accidental be valid for the next note and any same Karl repeted note, this has bothered me with the current white mesural Karl support. E.g. if you say bes bes bes, it should be only one b-flat Karl sign? Unless one of the B's is the start of a new phrase. Some printers would write a B natural in that case, but it isn't universal. -- Laura (mailto:lcon...@laymusic.org) (617) 661-8097 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 http://www.laymusic.org/ http://www.serpentpublications.org If there happens to be a number of greater voices in the Concert than your own, they will swallow you up; therefore in such a case, I would recommend to you the resolution (tho' not the impudence) of a discarded actor, who after he had been twice hissed off the stage, mounted again, and with great assurance he thundered out these words: I will be heard. William Billings ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
RE: Black mensural notation
hello, From: lilypond-devel-bounces+james.lowe=datacore@gnu.org [lilypond-devel-bounces+james.lowe=datacore@gnu.org] on behalf of James Lowe [james.l...@datacore.com] Sent: 07 January 2011 13:03 To: Lukas Pietsch; lilypond-devel@gnu.org Subject: RE: Black mensural notation Lukas (although for some reason I am getting bounces from your email address so I hope you are reading this on the lists)! --- Is anyone else getting 10.mx.freenet.de rejected your message to the following e-mail addresses: Lukas Pietsch (lukas.piet...@freenet.de)mailto:lukas.piet...@freenet.de 10.mx.freenet.de gave this error: inconsistent or no DNS PTR record for 173.221.96.141 (see RFC 1912 2.1) ... -- after replying to Lukas' email? I hope Lukas can see these messages otherwise. James ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
RE: Black mensural notation
On Fri, 2011-01-07 at 13:08 +, James Lowe wrote: I ran this with 2.13.45 and it compiles with some warnings (see attached zip of log file). However, this is wonderful stuff! Also your PDF is very informative and it would be nice to incorporate this into our own Notation Reference at some point, if at all possible - I can help with that if you need to. James Thanks a lot! As for the warnings, I too was getting the cannot align on self: empty element ones, and found no way of getting rid of them. Maybe it's something to do with Lilypond not liking the way I removed the standard stems and flags, because it seems to be trying to align something with something else that isn't there, for each notehead it has to process. The cannot find property type-check for `beatLength' and `beatGrouping' warnings seem to be new. Were these properties recently renamed or something? They seemed to be a standard part of how bars were defined in the version I had. As for how to proceed from here, I'm not quite sure, since my system now stands rather outside the normal architecture and its development process, and since consolidating it further would probably duplicate some of the work Pál has been doing on the white notation. Probably the most elegant thing would be if it was possible to merge some of the logic of my ligature processing (with the plicas, pes shapes and currentes) into the standard ligature engraver Pál has been improving? But for that, I'd need somebody to help me with integrating the black glyph primitives into the standard font system and make them accessible from the normal engravers. I can't say I've really understood much of that architecture yet. Lukas ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
On 1/7/11 7:00 AM, Lukas Pietsch lukas.piet...@freenet.de wrote: On Fri, 2011-01-07 at 13:08 +, James Lowe wrote: I ran this with 2.13.45 and it compiles with some warnings (see attached zip of log file). However, this is wonderful stuff! Also your PDF is very informative and it would be nice to incorporate this into our own Notation Reference at some point, if at all possible - I can help with that if you need to. James Thanks a lot! As for the warnings, I too was getting the cannot align on self: empty element ones, and found no way of getting rid of them. Maybe it's something to do with Lilypond not liking the way I removed the standard stems and flags, because it seems to be trying to align something with something else that isn't there, for each notehead it has to process. The cannot find property type-check for `beatLength' and `beatGrouping' warnings seem to be new. Were these properties recently renamed or something? They seemed to be a standard part of how bars were defined in the version I had. beatLength and beatGrouping have gone away in 2.13. They are replaced (mostly) by baseMoment and beatStructure. As for how to proceed from here, I'm not quite sure, since my system now stands rather outside the normal architecture and its development process, and since consolidating it further would probably duplicate some of the work Pál has been doing on the white notation. Probably the most elegant thing would be if it was possible to merge some of the logic of my ligature processing (with the plicas, pes shapes and currentes) into the standard ligature engraver Pál has been improving? But for that, I'd need somebody to help me with integrating the black glyph primitives into the standard font system and make them accessible from the normal engravers. I can't say I've really understood much of that architecture yet. I'd be happy to help you integrate the glyph primitives into the standard font. I'm not sure how much help I can be in the process of integrating the glyph primitives into ligatures. Thanks, Carl ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
James Lowe: ... Lukas (although for some reason I am getting bounces from your email address so I hope you are reading this on the lists)! Lukas cannot do anything about this except changing mail provider. The mailing list should be fine. You can do something by making sure the sending mailserver ip-number and dns name points back to each other, ask your mail- and dnsadmin. Is anyone else getting 10.mx.freenet.de rejected your message to the following e-mail addresses: Lukas Pietsch (lukas.piet...@freenet.de)mailto:lukas.piet...@freenet.de 10.mx.freenet.de gave this error: inconsistent or no DNS PTR record for 173.221.96.141 (see RFC 1912 2.1) Yes, freenet.de only accepts mail from mail-servers with a valid reverse pointer. If I like to find out who 172.221.96.141 is, I can do: $ host -t ptr 173.221.96.141 141.96.221.173.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer cas-ftl1.datacore.com. $ But cas-ftl1.datacore.com doesn't poin back to the same number: $ host cas-ftl1.datacore.com. cas-ftl1.datacore.com has address 205.237.192.88 $ Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden +46 173 140 57 ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
On Fri, 2011-01-07 at 07:10 -0700, Carl Sorensen wrote: Thanks a lot! As for the warnings, I too was getting the cannot align on self: empty element ones, and found no way of getting rid of them. Maybe it's something to do with Lilypond not liking the way I removed the standard stems and flags, because it seems to be trying to align something with something else that isn't there, for each notehead it has to process. The cannot find property type-check for `beatLength' and `beatGrouping' warnings seem to be new. Were these properties recently renamed or something? They seemed to be a standard part of how bars were defined in the version I had. beatLength and beatGrouping have gone away in 2.13. They are replaced (mostly) by baseMoment and beatStructure. Ah, I see. Which means maintaining a scheme function that redefines bar structures in a way that is compatible with all current versions might be rather difficult? (Okay, bar structures may not be of the highest priority for making the thing work, because for most purposes they should remain invisible anyway, but currently I think there's still something about the horizontal spacing that is sensitive to where the assumed underlying bar lines are.) As for how to proceed from here, I'm not quite sure, since my system now stands rather outside the normal architecture and its development process, and since consolidating it further would probably duplicate some of the work Pál has been doing on the white notation. Probably the most elegant thing would be if it was possible to merge some of the logic of my ligature processing (with the plicas, pes shapes and currentes) into the standard ligature engraver Pál has been improving? But for that, I'd need somebody to help me with integrating the black glyph primitives into the standard font system and make them accessible from the normal engravers. I can't say I've really understood much of that architecture yet. I'd be happy to help you integrate the glyph primitives into the standard font. I'm not sure how much help I can be in the process of integrating the glyph primitives into ligatures. Great! I'm not sure when I might find time for again working substantially on this, but perhaps you could start by giving me some pointers about what input format we'd need to define those glyphs? I currently have Postscript and SVG representations of them. Lukas ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
hi all, As for how to proceed from here, I'm not quite sure, since my system now stands rather outside the normal architecture and its development process, and since consolidating it further would probably duplicate some of the work Pál has been doing on the white notation. Probably the most elegant thing would be if it was possible to merge some of the logic of my ligature processing (with the plicas, pes shapes and currentes) into the standard ligature engraver Pál has been improving? But for that, I'd need somebody to help me with integrating the black glyph primitives into the standard font system and make them accessible from the normal engravers. I can't say I've really understood much of that architecture yet. I will work on the ligature stuff, but I'm quite slow; regarding other shapes, I have to look very thoroughly through the existing gregorian support and your stuff. What I like best are the Ars subtilior flags; however, that is a part which confuses me quite a bit. In particular, what I've added as coloratio / black mensural notation support is really just the heads, the flagging must be hacked around as I wrote in http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2010-11/msg00212.html regards, p ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
On 7 January 2011 02:50, Andrew Hawryluk ahawry...@gmail.com wrote: I tried running it on a current development snapshot this week, but it didn't have enough memory to run nicely and bogged down my computer with swap traffic (I've got 2 MB here). I gave up on it before it finished. Does it take long to compile the PDF on your system? I had to do the same (2 GB here. ;) Before aborting, swap memory had shot up to 2.5 GB. It seems the \ligature function's causing the excessive memory usage. Cheers, Neil ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
On Fri, 2011-01-07 at 17:50 +, Neil Puttock wrote: On 7 January 2011 02:50, Andrew Hawryluk ahawry...@gmail.com wrote: I tried running it on a current development snapshot this week, but it didn't have enough memory to run nicely and bogged down my computer with swap traffic (I've got 2 MB here). I gave up on it before it finished. Does it take long to compile the PDF on your system? I had to do the same (2 GB here. ;) Before aborting, swap memory had shot up to 2.5 GB. It seems the \ligature function's causing the excessive memory usage. Dang. :-( And of course I understand far too little about the internals to have any idea of what could be causing this. I don't see anything like an exaggerated memory footprint when I run it on my system (2.12.3 on Ubuntu Linux 10.04). For mensuraltest.ly, my system monitor shows a memory usage of max. about 180 MiB, and it takes about 7 seconds to run. Lukas ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
RE: Black mensural notation
Hello, From: lilypond-devel-bounces+james.lowe=datacore@gnu.org [lilypond-devel-bounces+james.lowe=datacore@gnu.org] on behalf of Lukas Pietsch [lukas.piet...@freenet.de] Sent: 07 January 2011 18:21 To: Neil Puttock Cc: lilypond-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: Black mensural notation On Fri, 2011-01-07 at 17:50 +, Neil Puttock wrote: On 7 January 2011 02:50, Andrew Hawryluk ahawry...@gmail.com wrote: I tried running it on a current development snapshot this week, but it didn't have enough memory to run nicely and bogged down my computer with swap traffic (I've got 2 MB here). I gave up on it before it finished. Does it take long to compile the PDF on your system? I had to do the same (2 GB here. ;) Before aborting, swap memory had shot up to 2.5 GB. It seems the \ligature function's causing the excessive memory usage. Dang. :-( And of course I understand far too little about the internals to have any idea of what could be causing this. I don't see anything like an exaggerated memory footprint when I run it on my system (2.12.3 on Ubuntu Linux 10.04). For mensuraltest.ly, my system monitor shows a memory usage of max. about 180 MiB, and it takes about 7 seconds to run. --- I ran it on Windows 2.13.44 (not 45 as I first said) and it took a few seconds to complile and roughly 150Mb. James ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
On 7 January 2011 18:40, James Lowe james.l...@datacore.com wrote: I ran it on Windows 2.13.44 (not 45 as I first said) and it took a few seconds to complile and roughly 150Mb. Windows 2.13.44 also works fine here, though I can't say the same for 2.13.45: Preprocessing graphical objects... Finding the ideal number of pages... Fitting music on 1 or 2 pages... This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. Please contact the application's support team for more information. terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::bad_alloc' what(): St9bad_alloc Cheers, Neil ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
Windows 2.13.44 also works fine here, though I can't say the same for 2.13.45: Preprocessing graphical objects... Finding the ideal number of pages... Fitting music on 1 or 2 pages... This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. Please contact the application's support team for more information. terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::bad_alloc' what(): St9bad_alloc it may be related to Joe's recent patch 777066 about page breaking. I can't compile my larger scores, it stops at the same message and memory usage goes to the skies. I wanted to investigate it a bit more, but if anybody beats me... p ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
On 7 January 2011 20:33, Neil Puttock n.putt...@gmail.com wrote:
On 7 January 2011 20:27, Benkő Pál benko@gmail.com wrote:
it may be related to Joe's recent patch 777066 about page
breaking. I can't compile my larger scores, it stops at the
same message and memory usage goes to the skies. I wanted
to investigate it a bit more, but if anybody beats me...
I'm looking at it at the moment. :)
This seems to work (at least, the regtests are OK and it doesn't
appear to break the interaction between page-count and
systems-per-page):
diff --git a/lily/page-breaking.cc b/lily/page-breaking.cc
index e6a5740..af41363 100644
--- a/lily/page-breaking.cc
+++ b/lily/page-breaking.cc
@@ -712,7 +712,7 @@ Page_breaking::system_count_bounds
(vectorBreak_position const chunks,
assert (chunks.size () = 2);
Line_division ret;
- ret.resize (chunks.size () - 1, 0);
+ ret.resize (chunks.size () - 1, 1);
for (vsize i = 0; i + 1 chunks.size (); i++)
{
@@ -812,7 +812,7 @@ Page_breaking::set_to_ideal_line_configuration
(vsize start, vsize end)
div.push_back (line_breaking_[sys].best_solution (start, end).size
());
}
else
- div.push_back (0);
+ div.push_back (1);
system_count_ += div.back ();
}
@@ -849,7 +849,7 @@ Page_breaking::cache_line_details (vsize
configuration_index)
}
else
{
- assert (div[i] == 0);
+ assert (div[i] == 1);
uncompressed_line_details_.push_back (system_specs_[sys].prob_
? Line_details
(system_specs_[sys].prob_, book_-paper_)
: Line_details ());
I don't know why, though. :)
Cheers,
Neil
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Re: Black mensural notation
Am 04.01.2011 11:22, schrieb Lukas Pietsch: Hi, I'm quite new to Lilypond programming, but I thought I'd jump in at what seemed to me to be pretty much the deep end, and try if I could get black mensural notation implemented. Here's what I've come up with so far: http://lukas-pietsch.de/Music/blackmensural.ly (source file) http://lukas-pietsch.de/Music/blackmensural.pdf (doc) It's all just scheme functions and embedded postscript, and works for me under the current stable 2.12.3. The biggest stumbling block turned out to be black ligatures, which I found no other way of doing than rewriting from scratch in a rather hackish way, sidestepping the normal ligature engraver completely; and horizontal spacing, for which I had to figure out some rather ugly workarounds (probably far from optimal). If anybody finds it useful, please feel free to use or modify. Lukas, I just wanted to say that I am really impressed! Please keep up the good work. Regards, Robert ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
I tried running it on a current development snapshot this week, but it didn't have enough memory to run nicely and bogged down my computer with swap traffic (I've got 2 MB here). I gave up on it before it finished. Does it take long to compile the PDF on your system? Andrew On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 6:14 AM, Lukas Pietsch lukas.piet...@freenet.de wrote: On Tue, 2011-01-04 at 11:49 +0100, Werner LEMBERG wrote: Very impressive! Could you try to make it work with the current development version? The next steps could then be adding the missing glyph shapes to the lilypond fonts, followed by either writing a new engraver or modifying/fixing/correcting the existing ones.q Unfortunately, I've had some problems getting any other version than the current standard package from my Linux distribution cleanly installed on my system (probably I'm just not Linux-savvy enough). I've now uploaded a test file http://lukas-pietsch.de/Music/mensuraltest.ly and the expected output http://lukas-pietsch.de/Music/mensuraltest.pdf, with the same snippets as in the documentation pdf. If anybody could be so kind as to try and run that through their Lilypond installation? I'd heard about the possibility of writing one's own engravers in Scheme, which would certainly have been the more elegant way of doing most of this, but I couldn't find it accessibly documented anywhere and it didn't seem to be supported on the older versions anyway. Lukas ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Black mensural notation
Hi, I'm quite new to Lilypond programming, but I thought I'd jump in at what seemed to me to be pretty much the deep end, and try if I could get black mensural notation implemented. Here's what I've come up with so far: http://lukas-pietsch.de/Music/blackmensural.ly (source file) http://lukas-pietsch.de/Music/blackmensural.pdf (doc) It's all just scheme functions and embedded postscript, and works for me under the current stable 2.12.3. The biggest stumbling block turned out to be black ligatures, which I found no other way of doing than rewriting from scratch in a rather hackish way, sidestepping the normal ligature engraver completely; and horizontal spacing, for which I had to figure out some rather ugly workarounds (probably far from optimal). If anybody finds it useful, please feel free to use or modify. Lukas ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
Hi, I'm quite new to Lilypond programming, but I thought I'd jump in at what seemed to me to be pretty much the deep end, and try if I could get black mensural notation implemented. Here's what I've come up with so far: http://lukas-pietsch.de/Music/blackmensural.ly (source file) http://lukas-pietsch.de/Music/blackmensural.pdf (doc) Very impressive! Could you try to make it work with the current development version? The next steps could then be adding the missing glyph shapes to the lilypond fonts, followed by either writing a new engraver or modifying/fixing/correcting the existing ones.q Werner ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
Lukas: Hi, I'm quite new to Lilypond programming, but I thought I'd jump in at what seemed to me to be pretty much the deep end, and try if I could get black mensural notation implemented. Here's what I've come up with so far: http://lukas-pietsch.de/Music/blackmensural.ly (source file) http://lukas-pietsch.de/Music/blackmensural.pdf (doc) It's all just scheme functions and embedded postscript, and works for me under the current stable 2.12.3. The biggest stumbling block turned out to be black ligatures, which I found no other way of doing than rewriting from scratch in a rather hackish way, sidestepping the normal ligature engraver completely; and horizontal spacing, for which I had to figure out some rather ugly workarounds (probably far from optimal). If anybody finds it useful, please feel free to use or modify. On line 22 in the ly-file: %% Accidentals are valid only once (same as Shouldn't the accidental be valid for the next note and any same repeted note, this has bothered me with the current white mesural support. E.g. if you say bes bes bes, it should be only one b-flat sign? And the b-flat sign could be displaced horisontally to the left as in gregorian chant? The rests looks a little thick in section 1.4 in the pdf. Wery nice, I'm very happy to see this!!! Regards, /Karl Hammar - Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden +46 173 140 57 ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
hi Lukas, Hi, I'm quite new to Lilypond programming, but I thought I'd jump in at what seemed to me to be pretty much the deep end, and try if I could get black mensural notation implemented. Here's what I've come up with so far: http://lukas-pietsch.de/Music/blackmensural.ly (source file) http://lukas-pietsch.de/Music/blackmensural.pdf (doc) It's all just scheme functions and embedded postscript, and works for me under the current stable 2.12.3. The biggest stumbling block turned out to be black ligatures, which I found no other way of doing than rewriting from scratch in a rather hackish way, sidestepping the normal ligature engraver completely; and horizontal spacing, for which I had to figure out some rather ugly workarounds (probably far from optimal). If anybody finds it useful, please feel free to use or modify. I'll read your docs carefully (my first impression is: it's absolutely stunning), but in the meantime I want to let you know that I'm working on white mensural notation, and I've implemented a preliminary version of coloratio (i.e. black notes), including ligaturae. these patches are not yet submitted (first try was http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2010-11/msg00212.html ), but I'll do so soon. meanwhile please take a look at http://wiki.lilynet.net/index.php/Benkop_projects (it's a bit outdated; I'll update after my patches make to the official repository.) it's great to have other people concerned with ancient notation! p ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
Am Dienstag, 4. Januar 2011, um 12:55:25 schrieb Benkő Pál:
I'll read your docs carefully (my first impression is: it's
absolutely stunning), but in the meantime I want to let you
know that I'm working on white mensural notation, and I've implemented
a preliminary version of coloratio (i.e. black notes), including
ligaturae. these patches are not yet submitted (first try was
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2010-11/msg00212.html
), but I'll do so soon.
Just a short comment (I didn't really read your mail back then, to be honest):
The flags are hardcoded to appear only for unbeamed notes with duration_log =3
(i.e. 1/8 or shorter). The culprit is the Stem::flag function, which should be
made more flexible in that regard (in particular, we could call the callback
function also for longer notes, if we make sure the callback immediately
returns an empty stencil):
Stencil
Stem::flag (Grob *me)
{
int log = duration_log (me);
if (log 3
|| unsmob_grob (me-get_object (beam)))
return Stencil ();
if (!is_normal_stem (me))
return Stencil ();
// This get_property call already evaluates the scheme function with
// the grob passed as argument! Thus, we only have to check if a valid
// stencil is returned.
SCM flag_style_scm = me-get_property (flag);
if (Stencil *flag = unsmob_stencil (flag_style_scm)) {
return *flag;
} else {
return Stencil ();
}
}
Cheers,
Reinhold
--
--
Reinhold Kainhofer, reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
* Financial Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria
* http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886
* LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org
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Re: Black mensural notation
Karl Hammar karl at aspodata.se writes: On line 22 in the ly-file: %% Accidentals are valid only once (same as Shouldn't the accidental be valid for the next note and any same repeted note, this has bothered me with the current white mesural support. E.g. if you say bes bes bes, it should be only one b-flat sign? Ah, actually, that was just a bit I copied over from the MensuralVoice definition, but it gets further overridden by my package anyway. What the \mensura command does is it won't display any accidentals at all, unless you manually force it to, for each individual instance you want one displayed. And the b-flat sign could be displaced horisontally to the left as in gregorian chant? Not quite sure what you mean here. Displaced to the left of any ligature? That's already done. Or to some arbitrary other position? That might actually be useful indeed, but I haven't yet figured out a way of doing it. In fact, in the very first snippet in the documentation file, the natural sign should also be in front of the whole white note group, and I couldn't do it. The rests looks a little thick in section 1.4 in the pdf. True, they aren't very beautiful. I was taking over the thickness of the built-in rests from the mensural style. I'd need to figure out a way how to tweak the thickness of the standard smaller rests; adapting the new larger rests to that is easy. Wery nice, I'm very happy to see this!!! Thanks for the encouragement! Lukas ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Black mensural notation
On Tue, 2011-01-04 at 11:49 +0100, Werner LEMBERG wrote: Very impressive! Could you try to make it work with the current development version? The next steps could then be adding the missing glyph shapes to the lilypond fonts, followed by either writing a new engraver or modifying/fixing/correcting the existing ones.q Unfortunately, I've had some problems getting any other version than the current standard package from my Linux distribution cleanly installed on my system (probably I'm just not Linux-savvy enough). I've now uploaded a test file http://lukas-pietsch.de/Music/mensuraltest.ly and the expected output http://lukas-pietsch.de/Music/mensuraltest.pdf, with the same snippets as in the documentation pdf. If anybody could be so kind as to try and run that through their Lilypond installation? I'd heard about the possibility of writing one's own engravers in Scheme, which would certainly have been the more elegant way of doing most of this, but I couldn't find it accessibly documented anywhere and it didn't seem to be supported on the older versions anyway. Lukas ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: [PATCH] coloratio, black mensural notation
hi all, Regarding the quality of the patch: It's just fine. However, I can't say anything about the details since my knowledge of mensural notation is very limited. Especially the `sM2semimensural' in `parmesan20' (which I'm currently looking at after applying the patch locally) looks very strange, and I've never seen a similar note shape before. But I suspect this is my lack of knowledge. thanks, Werner. I'll try to compile a list of online facsimiles. semicolored notes are really very rare, but I've already seen such notes. (a semicolored note can be seen as consisting of two smaller notes, one uncolored, one colored; theoretically one could use semicoloration to color the first half, but I have never seen such an example - that's why I didn't implement it). p ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: [PATCH] coloratio, black mensural notation
Especially the `sM2semimensural' in `parmesan20' (which I'm currently looking at after applying the patch locally) looks very strange, and I've never seen a similar note shape before. But I suspect this is my lack of knowledge. I'll try to compile a list of online facsimiles. Yes, please do so! It would be nice to have even a URL in lilypond's documentation as soon as your patch gets applied (together with the necessary infrasctructure to access those glyphs, that is). Werner ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: [PATCH] coloratio, black mensural notation
On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Benkő Pál benko@gmail.com wrote: hi list, Greetings Pál, [CCing Werner the glyph guy Lemberg] the attached patch adds noteheads needed for black mensural notation (BMN) and coloratio in white mensural notation (WMN). note that it's just the noteheads: in both BMN and coloratio sections in WMN a fourth note looks like a flagged half note. Werner, do you want me to upload this patch on Rietveld (or possibly to the bug tracker)? I could reach this look by the following functions: #(define (nota-colorata music) (let ( (es (ly:music-property music 'elements)) (name (ly:music-property music 'name)) ) (if (equal? name 'EventChord) (let* ((note (first es)) (dur (ly:music-property note 'duration)) (dl (ly:duration-log dur)) ) (if ( dl 1) (set! music (shift-duration-log (ly:music-compress music (ly:make-moment 2 1)) 1 0) music)) notaColorata = #(define-music-function (parser location mus) (ly:music?) (music-map nota-colorata mus)) I hope there is a better solution. I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to achieve (I know nothing about mensural notation), but is changing the rhythm a desired side-effect? Whenever I want a black note head, I use something much simpler (but arguably hackish): #(define (nota-colorata music) (let ((es (ly:music-property music 'elements)) (name (ly:music-property music 'name)) ) (if (equal? name 'EventChord) (let* ((note (first es))) (set! (ly:music-property note 'tweaks) (acons 'duration-log 4 (ly:music-property note 'tweaks) music)) the next step is using all this; I've tried adding a new note head style - I believe this is right, considering colored - uncolored changes in WMN, but I may well be wrong. I also have support for these in ligatures (notes can be colored/uncolored independently - even the two notes of a flexa can have different color), but I'd like to sort out the above issues first. Good luck with your work, I'm sure others will have more useful comments to make than me! Cheers, Valentin. black.patch Description: Binary data ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: [PATCH] coloratio, black mensural notation
the attached patch adds noteheads needed for black mensural notation (BMN) and coloratio in white mensural notation (WMN). note that it's just the noteheads: in both BMN and coloratio sections in WMN a fourth note looks like a flagged half note. Werner, do you want me to upload this patch on Rietveld (or possibly to the bug tracker)? Regarding the quality of the patch: It's just fine. However, I can't say anything about the details since my knowledge of mensural notation is very limited. Especially the `sM2semimensural' in `parmesan20' (which I'm currently looking at after applying the patch locally) looks very strange, and I've never seen a similar note shape before. But I suspect this is my lack of knowledge. Werner ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
coloratio, black mensural notation
hi list, the attached patch adds noteheads needed for black mensural notation (BMN) and coloratio in white mensural notation (WMN). note that it's just the noteheads: in both BMN and coloratio sections in WMN a fourth note looks like a flagged half note. I could reach this look by the following functions: #(define (nota-colorata music) (let ( (es (ly:music-property music 'elements)) (name (ly:music-property music 'name)) ) (if (equal? name 'EventChord) (let* ((note (first es)) (dur (ly:music-property note 'duration)) (dl (ly:duration-log dur)) ) (if ( dl 1) (set! music (shift-duration-log (ly:music-compress music (ly:make-moment 2 1)) 1 0) music)) notaColorata = #(define-music-function (parser location mus) (ly:music?) (music-map nota-colorata mus)) I hope there is a better solution. the next step is using all this; I've tried adding a new note head style - I believe this is right, considering colored - uncolored changes in WMN, but I may well be wrong. I also have support for these in ligatures (notes can be colored/uncolored independently - even the two notes of a flexa can have different color), but I'd like to sort out the above issues first. thanks, Pal black.patch Description: Binary data ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
