Re: Non-numeric time signatures
On Oct 25, 2014, at 17:59 , Simon Albrecht wrote: > > Hello Dan, > > I think the double c and double cut c symbols are very much non-standard, > unlike single cut c for 4/2, which I consider to be in use very widely. Simon, A few weeks ago, I added a new time signature style named "single-C” which can be used with \time 2/1 to give you a cut-C symbol with a measure length of one breve. The reception from a couple other people involved in our discussions was not very enthusiastic, but I never heard from you. I have just posted a patch for review[1] which allows the alternative solution of defining your own time signature style: #(add-simple-time-signature-style ’simons-alla-breve (lambda (fraction) (let ((n (car fraction)) (d (cdr fraction))) (if (and (= n 4) (= d 2)) (make-musicglyph-markup “timesig.C22”) (make-c-time-signature-markup fraction) If the patch is accepted, including this code in your lilypond file would allow you to use the style “simons-alla-breve” to get the cut-C symbol with \time 4/2, with other time signatures appearing identical to the “C” style. Please let me know which of these solutions appeals more to you. If you prefer defining your own style rather than using single-C, then I think single-C should be removed rather than documented. [1] https://codereview.appspot.com/176180043/ — Dan ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Non-numeric time signatures
Am 26.10.2014 um 01:43 schrieb Dan Eble: On Oct 25, 2014, at 17:59 , Simon Albrecht wrote: I think the double c and double cut c symbols are very much non-standard, unlike single cut c for 4/2, which I consider to be in use very widely. With this difference in frequency of use I don’t find your suggestion convincing. My suggestion was not based on frequency of use (because I am ignorant of that) but on my impression that it would be nicer to have a default that doesn’t use the same symbol for different time signatures. default: (currently called #'C – perhaps rename to #'symbolic? That would be more descriptive) 4/4 -> c 2/2 -> cut c 4/2 -> (single) cut c “Symbolic” is too generic. It could be applied to more than one style, otherwise we wouldn’t be having this discussion. :) How might an additional option for double c/cut c time signatures be called? Perhaps #'romantic or #'double or #’varsymbol? I like your proposition, Simon. I think there should be 'default 'numeric and another (at least one) - perhaps called 'symbolic. Lilypond already has several styles for note heads (default, altdefault, etc.) which only change the style of breve and longa notes. So I think it is not exaggerated to have several possibilities here. For the 'default, I would prefer the current 4/2 as numeric. Simon, you gave already nice explanation why the ¢ is also used for 4/2 and I think this knowledge should be used when defining appropriate styles according to traditional usage of those symbols. So I am for your suggestion, Simon. Another thing: Independent of these styles, I wonder if it would be possible and desirable to extend the \time command to allow to specify both the symbol and the timing information: \time symbol timing (or the other way round) examples: \time 4/4 would by default mean \time "C" 4/4 \time 3/4 means \time "3/4" 3/4 \time "C|" 4/2 would mean the symbol is ¢ and the timing 4/2 I don't know it that works with the optional arguments. But it is similar to the \tempo command with \tempo Allegro 4=100 That would be easy for my question some days ago. Cheers, Joram ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Non-numeric time signatures
Hello Dan,
I think the double c and double cut c symbols are very much
non-standard, unlike single cut c for 4/2, which I consider to be in use
very widely. With this difference in frequency of use I don’t find your
suggestion convincing.
What made me suggest the 'style option is the strong analogy to numeric
and default style in 4/4 and 2/2 times. I would even vote for the
following behaviour of 'style:
default: (currently called #'C – perhaps rename to #'symbolic? That
would be more descriptive)
4/4 -> c
2/2 -> cut c
4/2 -> (single) cut c
#'numeric (behaviour should be obvious)
This is a very convincing system in my eyes. Another variant would be:
default (#'C)
4/4 -> c
2/2 -> cut c
4/2 -> 4/2
#'numeric
#'symbolic
4/4 -> c
2/2 -> cut c
4/2 -> (single) cut c
How might an additional option for double c/cut c time signatures be
called? Perhaps #'romantic or #'double or #'varsymbol?
So far my suggestions.
Yours, Simon
Am 25.10.2014 um 20:15 schrieb Dan Eble:
Simon (and all),
Regarding the request to display 4/2 as cut-c by default,
https://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3286
I think it would make sense to extend the default style to offer a simple way
to get the doubled symbols:
2/1 -> double cut-c (Schubert op. 90 no. 3)
4/2 -> double c (my obscure hymnal)
You mentioned that you would be satisfied if there were a different style for
your alla breve case. Do you really need a style or is the following good
enough?
timeAllaBreve = {
\once \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil =
#(lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob
#{ \markup \musicglyph #"timesig.C22" #}))
\time 2/1
}
Another thing that occurs to me is a possible parallel with non-numeric tempo.
When the single cut-c symbol is used to indicate 2/1, does it need to be
annotated with text? If so, would something like \time “alla breve” 2/1 be any
better than the way it has to be done now?
Another potential use for that is \time “swing” 4/4.
Regards,
—
Dan
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Re: Non-numeric time signatures
On Oct 25, 2014, at 17:59 , Simon Albrecht wrote: > > I think the double c and double cut c symbols are very much non-standard, > unlike single cut c for 4/2, which I consider to be in use very widely. With > this difference in frequency of use I don’t find your suggestion convincing. My suggestion was not based on frequency of use (because I am ignorant of that) but on my impression that it would be nicer to have a default that doesn’t use the same symbol for different time signatures. > default: (currently called #'C – perhaps rename to #'symbolic? That would be > more descriptive) > 4/4 -> c > 2/2 -> cut c > 4/2 -> (single) cut c “Symbolic” is too generic. It could be applied to more than one style, otherwise we wouldn’t be having this discussion. :) > How might an additional option for double c/cut c time signatures be called? > Perhaps #'romantic or #'double or #’varsymbol? I’m not qualified to judge whether the double-c style is romantic. If it is not desirable to add the double-c time signatures to the default style, my favorite name so far is #’CC. Here is yet another suggestion for your alla breve pieces: What about adding a #'single-C style (analogous to #’single-digit) which uses c or cut-c based only on the numerator? Any 4/x would be printed as a single c and any 2/x would be printed as a single cut c. You would therefore use \time 2/1. (I like this suggestion a lot.) Regards, — Dan ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
