Re: does anybody care about LSR?
2011/7/3 Reinhold Kainhofer : > Am Sonntag, 3. Juli 2011, 14:58:50 schrieb Jan Warchoł: >> 2011/7/3 Francisco Vila : >> > A pity it goes down sooo frequently, I ignore if it's hardware or >> > configuration to blame. >> >> I hope we will resolve this when we discuss "Subdomains of >> *.lilypond.org" GOP issue. > > Well, this won't solve the stability, but at least the visibility of the LSR. > I usually don 't remember the URL, but rely on my browser's history... me too. > Having lsr.lilypond.org (or snippets.lilypond.org) would really increase the > visibility of the LSR. +1 2011/7/3 Reinhold Kainhofer : > Am Sonntag, 3. Juli 2011, 15:17:10 schrieb Graham Percival: >> The best way to help LSR become more stable is to learn how to >> install tomcat. I think that's some kind of java website thingie. >> If you know (or can learn) how to do that, then please get in >> touch with Reinhold to help him do the same. > > Actually, I succeeded with tomcat a few days ago. Congratulations! > There were several problems, > mostly that the lsr sources didn't contain the necessary config files required > to install the LSR withing tomcat... Sebastiano has been very helpful and very > responsive, so things look a bit brighter now... Browsing and viewing snippets > already works, searching doesn't work (including showing the search page), > because I haven't built the search index yet: > http://curie.fam.tuwien.ac.at:8080/LSR/Browse Looks nice :) > It actually took me a bit longer to figure out which parts I was missing and > how I have to set up things... But for future installations of LSR I'm jotting > down all the steps I'm doing when setting up the LSR locally, so other > installations will be way easier: > http://wiki.kainhofer.com/lilypond/lsr_setup That's very kind of you :) Looks like you wrote it explicitely enough that an unskilled person like me could follow them. Thanks! Janek ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
Am Sonntag, 3. Juli 2011, 15:17:10 schrieb Graham Percival: > The best way to help LSR become more stable is to learn how to > install tomcat. I think that's some kind of java website thingie. > If you know (or can learn) how to do that, then please get in > touch with Reinhold to help him do the same. Actually, I succeeded with tomcat a few days ago. There were several problems, mostly that the lsr sources didn't contain the necessary config files required to install the LSR withing tomcat... Sebastiano has been very helpful and very responsive, so things look a bit brighter now... Browsing and viewing snippets already works, searching doesn't work (including showing the search page), because I haven't built the search index yet: http://curie.fam.tuwien.ac.at:8080/LSR/Browse Editing the snippets doesn't work yet, either, because I'm still fighting with ERW (first step was commenting out a browser check that was modern 6 years ago, but nowadays fails on basically all modern brosers...). > All (?) we need is > some relatively geeky person who doesn't mind spending 2-3 hours > reading tutorials / forum posts / blog posts / documentation / > etc. about this software. It actually took me a bit longer to figure out which parts I was missing and how I have to set up things... But for future installations of LSR I'm jotting down all the steps I'm doing when setting up the LSR locally, so other installations will be way easier: http://wiki.kainhofer.com/lilypond/lsr_setup Cheers, Reinhold -- -- Reinhold Kainhofer, reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial & Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
Am Sonntag, 3. Juli 2011, 14:58:50 schrieb Jan Warchoł: > 2011/7/3 Francisco Vila : > > 2011/6/28 Graham Percival : > >> If somebody here *does* care, then speak up. Please note: > > Sorry for the very late answer. I only wanted to say that LSR has been > > very helpful until now, both for me and the members of the > > Spanish-speaking community. I've found that most of the questions in > > the list can be answered with only a search word for the LSR and a > > "look at first result". > > +1 > > > A pity it goes down sooo frequently, I ignore if it's hardware or > > configuration to blame. > > I hope we will resolve this when we discuss "Subdomains of > *.lilypond.org" GOP issue. Well, this won't solve the stability, but at least the visibility of the LSR. I usually don 't remember the URL, but rely on my browser's history... Having lsr.lilypond.org (or snippets.lilypond.org) would really increase the visibility of the LSR. Cheers, Reinhold -- -- Reinhold Kainhofer, reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial & Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
On Sun, Jul 03, 2011 at 02:58:50PM +0200, Jan Warchoł wrote: > 2011/7/3 Francisco Vila : > > A pity it goes down sooo frequently, I ignore if it's hardware or > > configuration to blame. > > I hope we will resolve this when we discuss "Subdomains of > *.lilypond.org" GOP issue. That will only help if people can't remember (or find) the lsr.whatever.it address. It won't affect the overall stability. The best way to help LSR become more stable is to learn how to install tomcat. I think that's some kind of java website thingie. If you know (or can learn) how to do that, then please get in touch with Reinhold to help him do the same. All (?) we need is some relatively geeky person who doesn't mind spending 2-3 hours reading tutorials / forum posts / blog posts / documentation / etc. about this software. Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
2011/7/3 Francisco Vila : > 2011/6/28 Graham Percival : >> If somebody here *does* care, then speak up. Please note: > > Sorry for the very late answer. I only wanted to say that LSR has been > very helpful until now, both for me and the members of the > Spanish-speaking community. I've found that most of the questions in > the list can be answered with only a search word for the LSR and a > "look at first result". +1 > A pity it goes down sooo frequently, I ignore if it's hardware or > configuration to blame. I hope we will resolve this when we discuss "Subdomains of *.lilypond.org" GOP issue. cheers, Janek ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
2011/6/28 Graham Percival : > If somebody here *does* care, then speak up. Please note: Sorry for the very late answer. I only wanted to say that LSR has been very helpful until now, both for me and the members of the Spanish-speaking community. I've found that most of the questions in the list can be answered with only a search word for the LSR and a "look at first result". A pity it goes down sooo frequently, I ignore if it's hardware or configuration to blame. -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) www.paconet.org , www.csmbadajoz.com ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
2011/6/29 Reinhold Kainhofer > No, that won't happen. LSR is something like a searchable FAQ for both common > cases and special cases. Unless the manual gets some REALLY good search > capabilities and anchors that you jump just to the right point without having > to read through whole sections to find what you want, the LSR is just way more > comfortable to work with. +1. The ease of searching is what makes LSR useful. Try searching for something in http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/ and in http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.15/Documentation/snippets/index.html There are only two things that i don't like about LSR: i'd love to see all snippets at once, without the need to click through several pages. Also, preview of big snippets isn't very helpful. Everything else is great imo! 2011/6/29 Graham Percival : > On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 04:39:39PM +0100, Phil Holmes wrote: >> My suggestion would be: unless the snippet is tagged "docs" abandon >> the above and blind authorise if it compiles. How does this sound? > > Totally fine with me! +1 cheers, Janek ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
Graham Percival-3 wrote: > > I was discussing LSR with Phil, and it occurred to me that I > should raise the question here. What do we want from LSR? > > As far as I'm concerned, no I don't care about LSR; the people who > wanted it in the first place aren't maintaining it; we haven't had > a flood of users volunteering to take care of it. This experiment > with "user-generated content" hasn't shown a clear net benefit to > the project, and as more and more people use lilydev and send in > patches, the need for something like LSR lessens. > > I'm suggesting that we just dump the whole thing on Phil. He can > choose how picky (or not) to be about explanations, indentation, > looking for duplicates, etc. > > > If somebody here *does* care, then speak up. > yes, sure i care about LSR - and i think i've proved that by contributing a few little things. (and reading a lot of it) the LSR has also been the source of many good ideas and solutions i did find. once you know (or you think to know) Lilypond and you look for an approach to a new problem it's just great to see that others have approached similar problems and maybe solved them. some problems always remain! i'm convinced that many LSR solutions will one day become part of the regular Lilypond and documentation - some of them already did it! - and some others will be picked up and improved before taking that way. i'm not offering to touch the code behind LSR - whatever that means. i'm just happy if i can make an effective search in LSR. but this does not seem to be effective in every case ( i'm preparing a mail to the LSR maintainer) > 1. nobody is offering to touch the code behind it. So don't say > "hey, it would be great if LSR could automatically xyz" unless you > think you can program the xyz yourself. > that's embarassing… - many programmers have good ideas but they don't know if anybody wants that - so they leave it; if anybody express what they would like, they might quickly find a good solution to it! > 2. anybody with the source code can do much more efficient work by > editing stuff in git directly. The only point of LSR is to > provide a quick, easy, automated repository for non-git people, so > whenever somebody with git access touches LSR, it's a net loss for > the project. > that's a barrage to all musicians not programming (or knowing git)! hoping my message is clear - don't shut off LSR, improve it in this or another way, make technical or new semantic improvements, find new aggregation models to group the snippets… thanks! Eluze -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/does-anybody-care-about-LSR--tp31947801p31958666.html Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
Am Mittwoch 29 Juni 2011, 23:11:33 schrieben Sie: 1> Phil, let's work this way: everytime you're in doubt (or on holiday) > about anything lsr-related, or every time you approve a docs-tagged > snippet, please give me a ping so I don't forget to push an lsr-update > onto the git master repo. > > I'm having some health issue right now, but I'll push an LSR update > within this week. No need to rush. Right now the lsr-snippet*.tar.gz in the download section are empty anyway (and the mysql dump is corrupted)... I'm trying once again to setup LSR on my own machine (I'm logging what I'm doing, so others can then do the same: http://wiki.kainhofer.com/lilypond/lsr_setup ). I'm able to compile the LSR java code, but I'm missing some config files to setup lsr correctly within tomcat, and I'm missing some info about how to structure the files on the server. I've mailed Seba about those issues, so hopefully, I can finally succeed in installing LSR on my own machine. Cheers, Reinhold -- -- Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna University of Technology, Austria email: reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/ * Edition Kainhofer Music Publishing, http://www.edition-kainhofer.com/ * LilyPond music typesetting software, http://www.lilypond.org/ ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 6:03 PM, Reinhold Kainhofer wrote: > Okay, you are simply seeing LSR as an input pipe for doc material. I see it as > a very useful, separate entity, which provides a quick, searchable FAQ, which > is able to display just the requested information in an easy way. That's exactly my point of view as well. I'm even using the LSR search engine in my browser: http://mycroft.mozdev.org/search-engines.html?name=lilypond WRT git-lsr-updates: I *can* handle them. I'm still not entirely confident that it won't overwrite important changes made in git, but other than that I have done it several times in the past, and the only reasons why I've been so shamelessly relying on Neil are his kindness and my own laziness ;) Phil, let's work this way: everytime you're in doubt (or on holiday) about anything lsr-related, or every time you approve a docs-tagged snippet, please give me a ping so I don't forget to push an lsr-update onto the git master repo. I'm having some health issue right now, but I'll push an LSR update within this week. Cheers, Valentin. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:30:49AM +0200, Valentin Villenave wrote: > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Graham Percival > wrote: > > I'm suggesting that we just dump the whole thing on Phil. He can > > choose how picky (or not) to be about explanations, indentation, > > looking for duplicates, etc. > > I wasn't aware that there were so many people wasting your time (and > other devs') repeatedly asking about explanations, indentations etc. Take a look in git. Who's been editing the import script, doing updates, editing the LSR section in the CG, etc? > But yes, I am certainly confident Phil can handle it just fine. I can > help too (I know my track record with LilyPond is awfully bad these > days but in spite of every task where I've dropped the ball, I don't > think I've left a single LSR-related request unaddressed in the past > four years). Excellent! I'll let you and Phil sort out who wants to do what. > > 1. nobody is offering to touch the code behind it. So don't say > > "hey, it would be great if LSR could automatically xyz" unless you > > think you can program the xyz yourself. > > There certainly /are/ things "we" can do in a long-term perspective, > but probably not within Sebastiano's Java/Tomcat/ERW design. Yes, it's a shame that nobody ever looked into Tomcat. I'm sure that there's tutorials and blogs and stuff out there about how to do this. This could be a nice 10-hour Frog project, if anybody was interested in recuiting+mentoring such an effort. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if there's somebody reading lilypond-user who deals with this stuff for their day job, and can set up this stuff in their sleep. > And you're welcome to not be interested in, and totally > disregard it (again: what else is new). Unless there's a person who's clearly responsible for LSR -- as I'm proposing that we make Phil -- that's a recipe for stuff never getting fixed. > But do keep in mind than some of us do care, and feel free to > point people towards Phil or myself. Great! Phil doesn't (quite yet) have git access. Do you still have your old login, in which case could you do a LSR import? AFAIK the instructions in the CG are still valid. ... or do you want me or Neil to do it? Cheers, - GRaham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
- Original Message - From: "Graham Percival" To: "Carl Sorensen" So if Phil is willing to take it over, whatever he wants to do is fine with me. That sounds like you're agreeing with my main suggestion: dump it on Phil. :) Cheers, - Graham I've already told Graham I'm happy to maintain it from an authoriser point of view. The issue with that, though, is - "what is the authoriser's job"? I typically check the speeling and grammer, correct indentation and try to see whether it makes sense to add to the LSR. However, if it doesn't, there's no avenue to contact the author to discuss it. Correcting the indentation can be a pain, too. Oh - and updates - users can't edit old snippets, and so when they're updated the best approach is to copy the new code into the old snippet and delete the old one. This takes time too. My suggestion would be: unless the snippet is tagged "docs" abandon the above and blind authorise if it compiles. How does this sound? -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 04:39:39PM +0100, Phil Holmes wrote: > I've already told Graham I'm happy to maintain it from an authoriser > point of view. I'll also be wanting you to do CG 7.4 LSR to git, once you have git access. Or maybe even before, since you could send a patch to James for pushing. > My suggestion would be: unless the snippet is tagged "docs" abandon > the above and blind authorise if it compiles. How does this sound? Totally fine with me! Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 02:56:28PM +0200, Reinhold Kainhofer wrote: > Am Dienstag, 28. Juni 2011, 19:16:36 schrieb Graham Percival: > > Ideally so. In practice, it seems like only "experts" (or at > > least, developers and contributors) are doing anything to maintain > > it. > > So, where's the problem? Experts sharing their knowledge so that users can > easily find and use it also relieves the work load on us. Of course "expert [users] sharing their knowledge" is great. But perhaps I should have replaced "experts" with "core developers". In 2011, there have been 3 lsr imports: 2011-05-02 f3a35eaef2b78440cdb150d36d8ff6d93e9c8d46 Neil 2011-02-28 129ef378c53f80d45f40af27ba80ad0fb5e0a53c Graham 2011-02-03 8755ca1bdfec581e21d558a5ad55da30ec4661ed Graham I'd like to be able to tell "expert users" that the easiest way for them improve the documentation is by adding snippets, and that these would be added to our docs in a timely fashion. But if we're looking at an average of 1 import every 2 months, it seems a bit dishonest to encourage LSR use [as a way to get stuff into the docs -- of course LSR can function on its own]. Also note that Neil does the most patch reviewing out of anybody (hey, what's one of the big weaknesses in our development process? oh yeah, not enough reviewing!), and I have a ton of other stuff to organize. Hence this email. I don't want to deal with LSR. I want to dump it all on Phil. I'd also like to have timely imports, which IMO means weekly (or at least 2-weekly). Anybody disagree with the previous paragraph? Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
Am Mittwoch, 29. Juni 2011, 17:33:33 schrieb Graham Percival: > I'd like to be able to tell "expert users" that the easiest way > for them improve the documentation is by adding snippets, and that > these would be added to our docs in a timely fashion. But if > we're looking at an average of 1 import every 2 months, it seems a > bit dishonest to encourage LSR use [as a way to get stuff into the > docs -- of course LSR can function on its own]. Okay, you are simply seeing LSR as an input pipe for doc material. I see it as a very useful, separate entity, which provides a quick, searchable FAQ, which is able to display just the requested information in an easy way. > Hence this email. I don't want to deal with LSR. I want to dump > it all on Phil. I'd also like to have timely imports, which IMO > means weekly (or at least 2-weekly). > > Anybody disagree with the previous paragraph? No. (Of course, it all depends on Phil, whether we wants that stuff dumped onto him...) Cheers, Reinhold -- -- Reinhold Kainhofer, reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial & Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
Am Mittwoch, 29. Juni 2011, 10:30:49 schrieb Valentin Villenave: > I must disagree. People have posted tons of interesting snippets > there, ranging from the basic "how to display a whole note" to > advanced tricks used by Eluze, Gilles Thibaut, Jay Anderson&al. (there > are even quite advanced snippets by Nicolas or Reinhold). > > FWIW, I use it on a daily basis whenever I have scores to publish > (which happens to be the case at the moment). Same for me. > There certainly /are/ things "we" can do in a long-term perspective, > but probably not within Sebastiano's Java/Tomcat/ERW design. If even > Reinhold has never been able to tweak it, then there's definitely a > problem here. The problem ist just that I have absolutely no experience and knowledge with tomcat, so I simply don't know how to set up a web application in tomcat without any documentation. I suppose that once the setup is done, things shouldn't be too hard. > However, I could see a PHP reimplementation happening (for example on > top of a MediaWiki installation). Probably can't (and won't) do it on > my own, but there are other LilyPond-related online-2.0 tasks I'm > working on right now that *could* possibly help in the future (again, > long-term thinking). I'm not sure if that's really necessary. It's a lot of work to write such a web application... Cheers, Reinhold -- -- Reinhold Kainhofer, reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial & Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
Am Dienstag, 28. Juni 2011, 17:48:24 schrieb Graham Percival: > I was discussing LSR with Phil, and it occurred to me that I > should raise the question here. What do we want from LSR? > > As far as I'm concerned, no I don't care about LSR; the people who > wanted it in the first place aren't maintaining it; we haven't had > a flood of users volunteering to take care of it. This experiment > with "user-generated content" hasn't shown a clear net benefit to > the project, It has definitely helped me A LOT, both when writing scores myself and when answering user questions on -user. When answering questions on -user, the first thing I do is go to the LSR search for an appropriate snippet and if there is one, I don't have any more work with the user request. That alone justified all work on the LSR and has a clear net benefit for me. > and as more and more people use lilydev and send in > patches, the need for something like LSR lessens. No, that won't happen. LSR is something like a searchable FAQ for both common cases and special cases. Unless the manual gets some REALLY good search capabilities and anchors that you jump just to the right point without having to read through whole sections to find what you want, the LSR is just way more comfortable to work with. > If somebody here *does* care, then speak up. Please note: > > 1. nobody is offering to touch the code behind it. So don't say > "hey, it would be great if LSR could automatically xyz" unless you > think you can program the xyz yourself. I wanted to and tried to install the LSR on my server so that I can improve the LSR (i.e. implement multiple lily versions in parallel, improve the page display by also showing a download link, etc.). However, I have absolutely no experience with tomcat, so that's where I failed. If someone with tomcat experience can help me set up the application on the server, I WILL improve the LSR and its code. > 2. anybody with the source code can do much more efficient work by > editing stuff in git directly. The only point of LSR is to > provide a quick, easy, automated repository for non-git people, so > whenever somebody with git access touches LSR, it's a net loss for > the project. No, the LSR provides a dynamic, searchable FAQ for the end user to search for solutions to their problems -- both easy and hard problems. It's like those cookbooks for C/CSS/HTML/.. that you find in every book store. There are good language references available for each language as documentation, but those cook books are just as needed and really useful to the user. Cheers, Reinhold -- -- Reinhold Kainhofer, reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial & Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
Am Dienstag, 28. Juni 2011, 19:16:36 schrieb Graham Percival: > > LSR is a place to put snippets that some people think are useful, without > > the filtering of any "expert". > > Ideally so. In practice, it seems like only "experts" (or at > least, developers and contributors) are doing anything to maintain > it. So, where's the problem? Experts sharing their knowledge so that users can easily find and use it also relieves the work load on us. > I'll note that, if we have any lsr->git importing, it's reasonable > to have some kind of quality control over that process. In terms > of LSR, this is done by tagging stuff with "docs" and marking a > snippet as "approved". Yeah, but then you have the snippets in the documentation, which is not as easily searchable. Cheers, Reuinhold -- -- Reinhold Kainhofer, reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial & Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Graham Percival wrote: > As far as I'm concerned, no I don't care about LSR; Shocker. What else is new? :-) > the people who > wanted it in the first place aren't maintaining it; we haven't had > a flood of users volunteering to take care of it. This experiment > with "user-generated content" hasn't shown a clear net benefit to > the project, and as more and more people use lilydev and send in > patches, the need for something like LSR lessens. I must disagree. People have posted tons of interesting snippets there, ranging from the basic "how to display a whole note" to advanced tricks used by Eluze, Gilles Thibaut, Jay Anderson&al. (there are even quite advanced snippets by Nicolas or Reinhold). FWIW, I use it on a daily basis whenever I have scores to publish (which happens to be the case at the moment). > I'm suggesting that we just dump the whole thing on Phil. He can > choose how picky (or not) to be about explanations, indentation, > looking for duplicates, etc. I wasn't aware that there were so many people wasting your time (and other devs') repeatedly asking about explanations, indentations etc. But yes, I am certainly confident Phil can handle it just fine. I can help too (I know my track record with LilyPond is awfully bad these days but in spite of every task where I've dropped the ball, I don't think I've left a single LSR-related request unaddressed in the past four years). > If somebody here *does* care, then speak up. Please note: > 1. nobody is offering to touch the code behind it. So don't say > "hey, it would be great if LSR could automatically xyz" unless you > think you can program the xyz yourself. There certainly /are/ things "we" can do in a long-term perspective, but probably not within Sebastiano's Java/Tomcat/ERW design. If even Reinhold has never been able to tweak it, then there's definitely a problem here. However, I could see a PHP reimplementation happening (for example on top of a MediaWiki installation). Probably can't (and won't) do it on my own, but there are other LilyPond-related online-2.0 tasks I'm working on right now that *could* possibly help in the future (again, long-term thinking). > 2. anybody with the source code can do much more efficient work by > editing stuff in git directly. The only point of LSR is to > provide a quick, easy, automated repository for non-git people, so > whenever somebody with git access touches LSR, it's a net loss for > the project. I think I get your point, and it does make sense e.g. for snippets that are meant to live in the git tree (such as doc snippets, /input/new or whatever the kids are calling it these days). But please remember you're speaking from a git-centric point of view: many users have very neat tricks to share (including advanced stuff that isn't really suitable for upstream integration yet, such as Nicolas' Scheme engravers, or my own "composite" dynamics, and other "niche" tricks that are most useful to a handful of people (fingering charts, thingamabobs etc.), but wouldn't make sense in the main distro. You make a valid point in advising people who can to focus on the main source tree rather than the LSR. And you're welcome to not be interested in, and totally disregard it (again: what else is new). But do keep in mind than some of us do care, and feel free to point people towards Phil or myself. Cheers, Valentin. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
On 6/28/11 11:16 AM, "Graham Percival" wrote: > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 10:45:36AM -0600, Carl Sorensen wrote: >> On 6/28/11 9:48 AM, "Graham Percival" wrote: > > ...snip various LSR discussion... > >> I'm not sure I agree with this. > > I'm not certain what the "this" is that you're disagreeing with. :) Only the statement that "git is better than LSR". > > That sounds like you're agreeing with my main suggestion: dump it > on Phil. :) Sure enough! Carl ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 10:45:36AM -0600, Carl Sorensen wrote: > On 6/28/11 9:48 AM, "Graham Percival" wrote: ...snip various LSR discussion... > I'm not sure I agree with this. I'm not certain what the "this" is that you're disagreeing with. :) > LSR is a place to put snippets that some people think are useful, without > the filtering of any "expert". Ideally so. In practice, it seems like only "experts" (or at least, developers and contributors) are doing anything to maintain it. I'll note that, if we have any lsr->git importing, it's reasonable to have some kind of quality control over that process. In terms of LSR, this is done by tagging stuff with "docs" and marking a snippet as "approved". > But I also think that LSR is a lot of overhead. I wouldn't say "a lot". If we have appropriate people working on each step, it's actually a fairly small amount of overhead for each person, and only involves 5 minutes a week from somebody with git access. > So if Phil is willing to take it over, whatever he wants to do is fine with > me. That sounds like you're agreeing with my main suggestion: dump it on Phil. :) Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: does anybody care about LSR?
On 6/28/11 9:48 AM, "Graham Percival" wrote: > I was discussing LSR with Phil, and it occurred to me that I > should raise the question here. What do we want from LSR? > > As far as I'm concerned, no I don't care about LSR; the people who > wanted it in the first place aren't maintaining it; we haven't had > a flood of users volunteering to take care of it. This experiment > with "user-generated content" hasn't shown a clear net benefit to > the project, and as more and more people use lilydev and send in > patches, the need for something like LSR lessens. > > I'm suggesting that we just dump the whole thing on Phil. He can > choose how picky (or not) to be about explanations, indentation, > looking for duplicates, etc. > > > If somebody here *does* care, then speak up. Please note: > > 1. nobody is offering to touch the code behind it. So don't say > "hey, it would be great if LSR could automatically xyz" unless you > think you can program the xyz yourself. > > 2. anybody with the source code can do much more efficient work by > editing stuff in git directly. The only point of LSR is to > provide a quick, easy, automated repository for non-git people, so > whenever somebody with git access touches LSR, it's a net loss for > the project. I'm not sure I agree with this. LSR is a place to put snippets that some people think are useful, without the filtering of any "expert". And it seems to have a reasonable search feature. But I also think that LSR is a lot of overhead. So if Phil is willing to take it over, whatever he wants to do is fine with me. Thanks, Carl ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
