Re: hel-arabic.ly
Werner LEMBERG writes: > I see that there is a severe language barrier, making it apparently > difficult for you to communicate properly in English. However, given > that today automatic translation engines like 'Google Translate' > provide excellent results in most cases – especially for Arabic, since > this was the very first language supported by this service –, this is > no longer an excuse. I disagree with the premise that a computer translation can consider the degree to which some content may be culturally acceptable in a global environment communicating in the target language. But there is no necessity for finding a culprit or assigning blame when something doesn't work out. Whether this involves code or human interaction. Mathematical/computing problems tend to be more of a fixed target, so there is more of a point in trying to find a solution guaranteed to work. Human relations are both more flexible and more elusive. There is no guarantee anything will work or fail other than trying and doing one's best in recovering gracefully from failure. -- David Kastrup
Re: hel-arabic.ly
> I'm not insulting anyone. It is not up to you to decide that. > These are facts. It is always possible to argue without using foul language. > Of course if you modify certain scheme files and remove the parts > that concern hel-arabic, it may not work. I challenge you, my > initial version which did not depend at all on Lilypond worked very > well without modifying anything. Initial hel-arabic which does not > depend on lilypond allows you to write any Western or Arabic music, > after which I modified it so that it integrates perfectly with > lilypond. hel-arabic.ly initially could be called directly, by > putting it in the folder containing the ly file to compile. This is not integration at all. What you describe is an *add-on* file, without any integration. If you insist on that we can easily remove `hel-arabic.ly` from LilyPond. > I had proven at the time to James that hel-arabic.ly could be used > without modifying anything, he had wanted the integration of this > hel-arabic file and I was forced to modify certain scheme files to > that the integration goes well You were 'forced'? I doubt that. You could always have said 'no, I don't want that'. Werner
Re: hel-arabic.ly
hassan.elfat...@free.fr writes: > Good morning > Before offering hel-arabic.ly, I tested it for 4 years, > it worked with all versions of lilypond. I have the impression that > individuals > have sabotaged my work or they are going to sabotage it in the latest > version of lilypond 2.25.13, You need to stop using inflammatory language and accusations here. If you are incapable of doing so, your contribution is not suitable for inclusion in LilyPond. This is basic project hygiene. That being said, the whole reason this is happening is because changes in LilyPond elsewhere broke hel-arabic.el and people have made the necessary changes to keep hel-arabic.ly working in newer versions of LilyPond you never had any possibility to test hel-arabic.ly with. Without useful regression tests contributed by you and without an active user base offering feedback in a polite manner, their fixes may well have been incomplete. It is not the first time this has happened, it will not remain the last time. If we get this shitstorm every time LilyPond changes in a manner where hel-arabic.ly is affected, there are two solutions: stopping to develop LilyPond, or removing hel-arabic.ly and refusing to support it in future. As it only serves a limited user base, it isn't worth sacrificing LilyPond's future for its sake. > I know that lilypond depends on volunteers, of course. Then consider the consequences of your behavior. To other developers, and to the future of hel-arabic.ly. -- David Kastrup
Re: hel-arabic.ly
I'm not insulting anyone. These are facts. I don't agree. Of course if you modify certain scheme files and remove the parts that concern hel-arabic, it may not work. I challenge you,my initial version which did not depend at all on Lilypond worked very well without modifying anything. Initial hel-arabic which does not depend on lilypond allows you to write any Western or Arabic music, after which I modified it so that it integrates perfectly with lilypond. hel-arabic.ly initially could be called directly, by putting it in the folder containing the ly file to compile. Too bad James is no longer here, he was my correspondent at the time. He was part of the developer team. I had proven at the time to James that hel-arabic.ly could be used without modifying anything, he had wanted the integration of this hel-arabic file and I was forced to modify certain scheme files to that the integration goes well Bien cordialement Hassan EL FATIHI
Re: hel-arabic.ly
> Before offering hel-arabic.ly, I tested it for 4 years, it worked > with all versions of lilypond. *Here* is the fundamental error you make: `hel-arabic.ly` is *NOT* a file that works stand-alone with all LilyPond versions! All LilyPond files that are part of version X.Y.Z are bound to this version. The official interface is ``` \include "hel-arabic.ly" ``` and you get the expected result in combination with `convert-ly`. How the stuff is actually implemented is not of any concern for a user. In other words, you have to make sure that you don't have a private `hel-arabic.ly` file somewhere that might interfere. If you can demonstrate that an input file doesn't work correctly with the code in the merge request, we are going to fix this. Up to now, however, I only see faulty tests on your side, insults, and unfounded accusations. Werner
Re: hel-arabic.ly
> Initially hel-arabic.ly is autonomous, It no longer is, as mentioned again and again. > [...] I will not propose it, given your lack of intellectual honesty Others have replied to that, and I agree with them. Your only concern seems to be 'my file, my file', not thinking at all how to actually *integrate* it into LilyPond. I added backward compatibility, because this was a real problem. I repeatedly demonstrated to you (including in private mail) how everything works smoothly, while you maintained that there are problems, which is *not correct* – as you admitted by yourself, your testing procedures were faulty. I see that there is a severe language barrier, making it apparently difficult for you to communicate properly in English. However, given that today automatic translation engines like 'Google Translate' provide excellent results in most cases – especially for Arabic, since this was the very first language supported by this service –, this is no longer an excuse. Maybe it's really better if you don't submit new code if such communication is the result. Werner
Re: hel-arabic.ly
Good morning Before offering hel-arabic.ly, I tested it for 4 years, it worked with all versions of lilypond. I have the impression that individuals have sabotaged my work or they are going to sabotage it in the latest version of lilypond 2.25.13, I know that lilypond depends on volunteers, of course. Best regards Hassan EL FATIHI
Re: hel-arabic.ly
hassan.elfat...@free.fr writes: > I'm sorry ! > Do you lack intellectual honesty? > I intended to propose an abc2lyarbic.py file which covers an abc file > with Arabic notes into a lilypond file with Arabic notes, but I will > not propose it, given your lack of intellectual honesty What goal would be achieved by willful obstruction? You are talking about volunteer work on a style not useful to the person working on it. Putting aside for a moment that those changes were actually suggested by yourself, why should anybody bother with integrating your work and having it distributed as part of LilyPond when they get called names for maintaining your contribution? LilyPond depends on volunteers, and a primary motivation for volunteers is that the work is fun to do. If the maintenance of some contribution exposes volunteers repeatedly to insults, we are better off removing that contribution than allowing it to contribute to a toxic work environment driving more contributors away than it will draw in new users. Please try to do your part in keeping LilyPond pleasant to work with and to work on. Thank you -- David Kastrup
Re: hel-arabic.ly
On 2024-03-11 18:27, hassan.elfat...@free.fr wrote: you delete (define-safe-public FIVE-HALF-FLAT -5/2) (define-safe-public SEVEN-HALF-FLAT -7/2) (define-safe-public FIVE-HALF-SHARP 5/2 you delete (define-safe-public FIVE-HALF-FLAT -5/2) As I understand it, this change was made after your statement at https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2023-01/msg00176.html that "5/2 and 7/2 are not being used, You can delete them." -- Dan
Re: hel-arabic.ly
Hello Initially hel-arabic.ly is autonomous, I see that you deleted in define-note-names.scm ;; Language: Arabic ; ;; Hassan El fatihi , ;; ;; bb = flat (bemol) ;; bb = double-flat ;; db = quarter-tone flat (semi-bemol) ;; dd = quarter-tone sharp (semi-diesis) ;; ctqb = three-quarter-tones flat ;; ctqd = three-quarter-tones sharp ;; d = sharp (diesis) ;; dd = double-sharp ;; cfhf = seven-half-tones flat ;; cfhd = seven-half-tones sharp ;; cshb = seven-half-tones flat ;; cshd = seven-half-tones sharp ;; English: c d e f g a b ;; Italian: do re mi fa sol la si (arabic . ( (c . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 NATURAL)) (d . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 NATURAL)) (e . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 NATURAL)) (f . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 NATURAL)) (g . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 4 NATURAL)) (a . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 5 NATURAL)) (b . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 6 NATURAL)) (cd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 SHARP)) (dd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 SHARP)) (ed . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 SHARP)) (fd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 SHARP)) (gd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 4 SHARP)) (ad . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 5 SHARP)) (bd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 6 SHARP)) (cb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 FLAT)) (db . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 FLAT)) (eb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 FLAT)) (fb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 FLAT)) (gb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 4 FLAT)) (ab . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 5 FLAT)) (bb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 6 FLAT)) (cdd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 SEMI-SHARP)) (ddd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 SEMI-SHARP)) (edd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 SEMI-SHARP)) (fdd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 SEMI-SHARP)) (gdd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 4 SEMI-SHARP)) (add . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 5 SEMI-SHARP)) (bdd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 6 SEMI-SHARP)) (cdb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 SEMI-FLAT)) (ddb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 SEMI-FLAT)) (edb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 SEMI-FLAT)) (fdb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 SEMI-FLAT)) (gdb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 Do you lack intellectual honesty? 4 SEMI-FLAT)) (adb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 5 SEMI-FLAT)) (bdb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 6 SEMI-FLAT)) (ctqb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 THREE-Q-FLAT)) (dtqb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 THREE-Q-FLAT)) (etqb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 THREE-Q-FLAT)) (ftqb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 THREE-Q-FLAT)) (gtqb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 4 THREE-Q-FLAT)) (atqb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 5 THREE-Q-FLAT)) (btqb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 6 THREE-Q-FLAT)) (ctqd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 THREE-Q-SHARP)) (dtqd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 THREE-Q-SHARP)) (etqd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 THREE-Q-SHARP)) (ftqd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 THREE-Q-SHARP)) (gtqd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 4 THREE-Q-SHARP)) (atqd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 5 THREE-Q-SHARP)) (btqd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 6 THREE-Q-SHARP)) (cfhb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 FIVE-HALF-FLAT)) (dfhb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 FIVE-HALF-FLAT)) (efhb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 FIVE-HALF-FLAT)) (ffhb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 FIVE-HALF-FLAT)) (gfhb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 4 FIVE-HALF-FLAT)) (afhb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 5 FIVE-HALF-FLAT)) (bfhb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 6 FIVE-HALF-FLAT)) (cfhd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 FIVE-HALF-SHARP)) (dfhd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 FIVE-HALF-SHARP)) (efhd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 FIVE-HALF-SHARP)) (ffhd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 FIVE-HALF-SHARP)) (gfhd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 4 FIVE-HALF-SHARP)) (afhd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 5 FIVE-HALF-SHARP)) (bfhd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 6 FIVE-HALF-SHARP)) (cshb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 SEVEN-HALF-FLAT)) (dshb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 SEVEN-HALF-FLAT)) (eshb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 SEVEN-HALF-FLAT)) (fshb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 SEVEN-HALF-FLAT)) (gshb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 4 SEVEN-HALF-FLAT)) (ashb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 5 SEVEN-HALF-FLAT)) (bshb . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 6 SEVEN-HALF-FLAT)) (cshd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 SEVEN-HALF-SHARP)) (dshd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 SEVEN-HALF-SHARP)) (eshd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 SEVEN-HALF-SHARP)) (fshd . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 SEVEN-HALF-SHARP))
Re: hel-arabic.ly
> \include "hel-arabic.ly"
> \version "2.23.3"
> \relative {
> \key c \rast
> c' d edb f | g a bdb c | eb a g f | edb d c
> }
You must have done something wrong; I've just downloaded the 2.24.3
binary bundle for GNU/Linux, and this code compiles fine – this means
that it works for previous versions, too.
The changes to `hel-arabic.ly` happened in version 2.25.2; earlier
versions are *not* affected.
Werner
Re: hel-arabic.ly
I installed lilypond-2.23.6-1 ,lilypond-2.24.3 and lilypond-2.25.13:
for each version I do : LilyPond rast.ly
for the unstable version it's normal hel-arabic has been truncated.
I would like to point out that my initial version of hel-arabic.ly that I am
using is functional.
I tested them with file : rast.ly =>
\include "hel-arabic.ly"
\version "2.23.3"
\relative {
\key c \rast
c' d edb f | g a bdb c | eb a g f | edb d c
}
\version "2.24.3" and \version "2.25.13"
It doesn't work, for any version of the 3 versions tested
You can do the test yourself: create a file, name it rast.ly, put this in
\include "hel-arabic.ly"
\version "2.23.3"
\relative {
\key c \rast
c' d edb f | g a bdb c | eb a g f | edb d c
}
Then lilypond rast.ly
you must obtain the following file: rast.pdf
Once again it's not for me. my version of hel-arabic.ly that I use, works well
even with version 2.18.1
thanks very match
Hassan
rast.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
Re: hel-arabic.ly
> I did some tests on version 2.24.3, 2.21.0-1 , 2.23.6-1 > > it doesn't work either. What *exactly* did you do? Werner
Re: hel-arabic.ly
hello again I did some tests on version 2.24.3, 2.21.0-1 , 2.23.6-1 it doesn't work either. hassan
Re: hel-arabic.ly
> for rast.ly
>
> \include "hel-arabic.ly"
> \version "2.25.13"
> \relative {
> \key c \rast
> c' d edb f | g a bdb c | eb a g f | edb d c
> }
>
> Tmust give rast.pdf , But that's not the case
Of course not. You are using the current development version without
my fix. Again: please have a look at
https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/merge_requests/2268
and try the code from this MR.
Werner
Re: hel-arabic.ly
> > This should ensure full backward compatibility if you process your
> > old files with `convert-ly`.
>
> Which file?
Any input file that uses `hel-arabic.ly`.
Example:
```
\version "2.24.0"
\include "hel-arabic.ly"
\relative {
\key c \rast
c' d edb f | g a bdb c | eb a g f | edb d c
}
```
If you process this with `convert-ly`, you get
```
\version "2.25.13"
\include "hel-arabic.ly"
\language "arabic"
\relative {
\key c \rast
c' d edb f | g a bdb c | eb a g f | edb d c
}
```
and this output compiles fine with the patch from
https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/merge_requests/2268
applied. Please look at this MR and comment.
Werner
Re: hel-arabic.ly
> \include "hel_arabic.ly" It's `hel-arabic.ly`, not `hel_arabic.ly`. Werner
Re: hel-arabic.ly
for rast.ly
\include "hel-arabic.ly"
\version "2.25.13"
\relative {
\key c \rast
c' d edb f | g a bdb c | eb a g f | edb d c
}
Tmust give rast.pdf , But that's not the case
rast.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
Re: hel-arabic.ly
lilypond rast.ly =>
GNU LilyPond 2.25.13 (running Guile 3.0)
Traitement de « rast.ly »
Analyse...
rast.ly:5:8: Erreur : « edb » n'est pas un nom de note
c' d
edb f | g a bdb c | eb a g f | edb d c
rast.ly:5:20: Erreur : « bdb » n'est pas un nom de note
c' d edb f | g a
bdb c | eb a g f | edb d c
rast.ly:5:28: Erreur : « eb » n'est pas un nom de note
c' d edb f | g a bdb c |
eb a g f | edb d c
rast.ly:5:39: Erreur : « edb » n'est pas un nom de note
c' d edb f | g a bdb c | eb a g f |
edb d c
Interprétation en cours de la musique...
Pré-traitement des éléments graphiques...
Détermination du nombre optimal de pages...
Répartition de la musique sur une page...
Dessin des systèmes...
Conversion à « rast.pdf »...
erreur fatale : erreur sur les fichiers "rast.ly"
file : rast.ly
\include "hel-arabic.ly"
\version "2.25.13"
\relative {
\key c \rast
c' d edb f | g a bdb c | eb a g f | edb d c
}
Re: hel-arabic.ly
I have this :
lilypond rast.ly
=>
GNU LilyPond 2.25.13 (running Guile 3.0)
Traitement de « rast.ly »
Analyse...
rast.ly:1:10: Erreur : fichier non trouvé : « hel_arabic.ly »
(chemin de recherche : «
/home/helfa/lilypond/share/lilypond/2.25.13/ly:/home/helfa/lilypond/share/lilypond/2.25.13/ps:/home/helfa/lilypond/share/lilypond/2.25.13/scm:/home/helfa/lilypond/share/lilypond/2.25.13/fonts/otf/:/home/helfa/lilypond/share/lilypond/2.25.13/fonts/svg/:
»)
\include
"hel_arabic.ly"
rast.ly:4:10: Erreur : unknown command: `\rast'
\key c
\rast
rast.ly:4:10: Erreur : type d'argument erroné pour 2.
Attendait list of number pairs, "rast" trouvé.
\key c
\rast
rast.ly:5:8: Erreur : « edb » n'est pas un nom de note
c' d
edb f | g a bdb c | eb a g f | edb d c
rast.ly:5:20: Erreur : « bdb » n'est pas un nom de note
c' d edb f | g a
bdb c | eb a g f | edb d c
rast.ly:5:28: Erreur : « eb » n'est pas un nom de note
c' d edb f | g a bdb c |
eb a g f | edb d c
rast.ly:5:39: Erreur : « edb » n'est pas un nom de note
c' d edb f | g a bdb c | eb a g f |
edb d c
Attention : la compilation a échoué et \version est plus que datée ;
la syntaxe de la source a-t-elle été mise à jour par convert-ly ?
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.25/Documentation/usage/updating-files-with-convert_002dly
Interprétation en cours de la musique...
Pré-traitement des éléments graphiques...
Détermination du nombre optimal de pages...
Répartition de la musique sur une page...
Dessin des systèmes...
Conversion à « rast.pdf »...
erreur fatale : erreur sur les fichiers "rast.ly"
rast.y :
\include "hel_arabic.ly"
\version "2.25.3"
\relative {
\key c \rast
c' d edb f | g a bdb c | eb a g f | edb d c
}
Re: hel-arabic.ly
hello again
\include "hel_arabic_initial.ly"
\relative {
\key c \rast
c' d edb f | g a bdb c | eb a g f | edb d c
}
This should ensure full backward compatibility if you process your old
files with `convert-ly`.
Which file?
This file: \include "hel_arabic.ly" \relative { \key c \rast c' d edb f | g a
bdb c | eb a g f | edb d c }
Doesn't need compatibility
Hassan
Re: hel-arabic.ly
>> [...] Indeed edb and sdb are no longer recognized > > It's not screwed up at all, however, current LilyPond is not > backward compatible. I'm already working on a patch. Please check https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/merge_requests/2268 This should ensure full backward compatibility if you process your old files with `convert-ly`. Werner
Re: hel-arabic.ly
On 2024-03-07 09:24, hassan.elfat...@free.fr wrote: by trying to make hel-arabic.ly dependent on arabic.ly without consulting me, you screwed up the hel-arabic.ly file. Neighbor, 1. You contributed to an open-source project. Proposed changes are posted for public review. GitLab sends notifications to those who are subscribed. This mailing list receives a "PATCHES" message with merge-request headlines three times a week. You have had the same opportunity as any other contributor to follow and respond to proposed changes. 2. The command git grep hel-arabic input/regression/ returns no results. If you are interested in reducing the dependence on the vigilance of one or two expert reviewers, consider contributing a test or two to exercise the unique features of hel-arabic.ly such that breaking changes would cause visual differences even non-experts can appreciate. -- Dan
Re: hel-arabic.ly
> In fact it no longer works, I gave the operational version of > hel-arabic.ly and by trying to make hel-arabic.ly dependent on > arabic.ly without consulting me, you screwed up the hel-arabic.ly > file. I can still repair the damage if you give me the opportunity > to do that. Indeed edb and sdb are no longer recognized It's not screwed up at all, however, current LilyPond is not backward compatible. I'm already working on a patch. Werner
Re: hel-arabic.ly
On Thu, 7 Mar 2024, 14:24 , wrote:
>
> \include "hel-arabic.ly"
> \relative {
> \key do \rast
>
Shouldn't this be
\key c \rast
?
c' d edb f | g a bdb c | eb a g f | edb d c
> }
>
> => rast1.png
>
>
> Hassan
>
Neil
>
Re: hel-arabic.ly
Hello again
In fact it no longer works, I gave the operational version of hel-arabic.ly and
by trying
to make hel-arabic.ly dependent on arabic.ly without consulting me,
you screwed up the hel-arabic.ly file. I can still repair the damage
if you give me the opportunity to do that.Indeed edb and sdb are no longer
recognized
\include "hel-arabic.ly"
\relative {
\key do \rast
c' d edb f | g a bdb c | eb a g f | edb d c
}
=> rast1.png
Hassan
Re: hel-arabic.ly
> Initially this file is sufficient in itself to write all Arabic > music. To avoid code duplication, this has been changed more than a year ago. https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/commit/a11634b21b4ca3d8bdc627980fc7e1cf1b819e31 > I note with regret and bitterness that hel-arabic.ly was truncated. > for example the makam rast, an important maqam of Arabic music, was > removed hel-arabic.ly does not depend in any way on arabic.ly. Well, `hel-arabic.ly` *does* now depend on `arabic.ly`. Why is that a problem? Please elaborate. Werner
