Re: patch to fix text color in PDF output
Am Freitag, 14. August 2009 18:33:16 schrieb Andrew Hawryluk: > www.musicbyandrew.ca/essayCMYKblack.pdf - original [...] > On every combination of OS, PDF viewer, and B&W laser printer that I > have tried, the original text is rendered just a shade lighter than > true black, both on-screen and in print. Can anyone confirm this? Yes, I can confirm this. The black line on the front page is not black, but rather #231F20 (measured after setting zoom to 400% to prevent antialising from blurring the color). Cheers, Reinhold -- -- Reinhold Kainhofer, reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial & Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: patch to fix text color in PDF output
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:49 PM, David Kastrup wrote: > Andrew Hawryluk writes: > >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 7:33 AM, David Kastrup wrote: >>> >>> Sure do. So what driver with what setting converts your PDF to the >>> respective printer language? >> >> Good question. >> At home: Samsung ML-2010, SpliX V. 2.0.0 on Ubuntu 9.04 (evince or >> acroread) > > What printer driver is configured with what settings? Ubuntu has a > printer dialogue. Here's the relevant info from the 'Printer Properties' dialogue. Make and model = Samsung ML-2010 Foomatic/gdi Resolution = 600 DPI Economy mode = Off Media type = Normal Paper Page size = Letter Halftoning Algorithm = Accurate (the other options are 'standard' and 'well-tempered screening' - is that the print setting Bach would have used?) Toner density = 3 (on a scale of 1-5) >> I have also now tried monochrome black with CMYK red, which is >> probably the best output option, but the TeX code could be cleaned up. > > Maybe. But CMYK black really should be black. If it isn't, there is > something wrong, likely in the printer driver which could be > GhostScript. The printer, incidentally, is a B&W or a color printer? B&W. I've only printed TexInfo output on B&W printers to date. and I always get the same results. >> I have attached sample pages of the original and my latest variation >> for comparison. Perhaps someone else can print both pages and see a >> difference. > > Didn't make it to the list. Download location? OK, here's three renderings of the 'short essay' (the LM version, abridged by Trevor): www.musicbyandrew.ca/essayCMYKblack.pdf - original www.musicbyandrew.ca/essayRGBblack.pdf - my original patch, red & black in RGB color space www.musicbyandrew.ca/essayMonoBlack.pdf - my new suggestion, monochrome black with the orignal CMYK red left unchanged On every combination of OS, PDF viewer, and B&W laser printer that I have tried, the original text is rendered just a shade lighter than true black, both on-screen and in print. Can anyone confirm this? On screen you can take a screenshot and measure the color of the text (e.g. in GIMP). In print, the effect is most visible in the body text. Andrew ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: patch to fix text color in PDF output
Andrew Hawryluk writes: > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 7:33 AM, David Kastrup wrote: >> >> Sure do. So what driver with what setting converts your PDF to the >> respective printer language? > > Good question. > At home: Samsung ML-2010, SpliX V. 2.0.0 on Ubuntu 9.04 (evince or > acroread) What printer driver is configured with what settings? Ubuntu has a printer dialogue. > I have also now tried monochrome black with CMYK red, which is > probably the best output option, but the TeX code could be cleaned up. Maybe. But CMYK black really should be black. If it isn't, there is something wrong, likely in the printer driver which could be GhostScript. The printer, incidentally, is a B&W or a color printer? > I have attached sample pages of the original and my latest variation > for comparison. Perhaps someone else can print both pages and see a > difference. Didn't make it to the list. Download location? > Thanks, David, for humoring me as I figure this out! -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: patch to fix text color in PDF output
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Andrew Hawryluk wrote: > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 7:33 AM, David Kastrup wrote: >> Andrew Hawryluk writes: >> >>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 3:11 AM, David Kastrup wrote: Andrew Hawryluk writes: > Hi all, > > Long ago I noticed that the text in our PDF manuals is fully black, > which results in rough-looking text when printed: > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2008-10/msg00059.html > > Attached is a patch which corrects this, and the printed output is > noticeably improved. (The on-screen output is nearly > indistinguishable.) > > I'll send this to the TexInfo folks as well. > > Andrew > From b2608a3c68f677729d5b72379d18b978b8c6236a Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 > From: Andrew Hawryluk > Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:14:42 -0600 > Subject: [PATCH] Fix TexInfo PDF output text color > > Changed CMKY colors to RGB colors, as RGB black prints > better than CMYK black on home printers. In that case, the "home printer" is broken. It might be conceivable to use greyscale black as an alternative, but RGB black appears like a bad choice for printing. Could you specify the details of your "home printer"? >>> >>> I have had identical results on two monochrome laser printers, using >>> both Evince and Acrobat Reader. The home printer is a Samsung ML-2010; >>> I don't remember what the work printer is. In either case, they seem >>> to compensate for the fact that cmyk (0 0 0 1) is not the darkest tone >>> available. Do you get different results in print? >> >> Sure do. So what driver with what setting converts your PDF to the >> respective printer language? >> >> -- >> David Kastrup >> > > Good question. > At home: Samsung ML-2010, SpliX V. 2.0.0 on Ubuntu 9.04 (evince or acroread) > At work: not sure, Windows XP and Adobe Acrobat 9.0 (Yes, I have just > confessed to having printed a bit of LilyPond documentation at work.) > > I have also now tried monochrome black with CMYK red, which is > probably the best output option, but the TeX code could be cleaned up. > I have attached sample pages of the original and my latest variation > for comparison. Perhaps someone else can print both pages and see a > difference. > > Thanks, David, for humoring me as I figure this out! > > Andrew > Attachments actually attached this time. essayCMYKblack.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document essayMonoBlack.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: patch to fix text color in PDF output
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 7:33 AM, David Kastrup wrote: > Andrew Hawryluk writes: > >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 3:11 AM, David Kastrup wrote: >>> Andrew Hawryluk writes: >>> Hi all, Long ago I noticed that the text in our PDF manuals is fully black, which results in rough-looking text when printed: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2008-10/msg00059.html Attached is a patch which corrects this, and the printed output is noticeably improved. (The on-screen output is nearly indistinguishable.) I'll send this to the TexInfo folks as well. Andrew From b2608a3c68f677729d5b72379d18b978b8c6236a Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Andrew Hawryluk Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:14:42 -0600 Subject: [PATCH] Fix TexInfo PDF output text color Changed CMKY colors to RGB colors, as RGB black prints better than CMYK black on home printers. >>> >>> In that case, the "home printer" is broken. It might be conceivable to >>> use greyscale black as an alternative, but RGB black appears like a bad >>> choice for printing. >>> >>> Could you specify the details of your "home printer"? >> >> I have had identical results on two monochrome laser printers, using >> both Evince and Acrobat Reader. The home printer is a Samsung ML-2010; >> I don't remember what the work printer is. In either case, they seem >> to compensate for the fact that cmyk (0 0 0 1) is not the darkest tone >> available. Do you get different results in print? > > Sure do. So what driver with what setting converts your PDF to the > respective printer language? > > -- > David Kastrup > Good question. At home: Samsung ML-2010, SpliX V. 2.0.0 on Ubuntu 9.04 (evince or acroread) At work: not sure, Windows XP and Adobe Acrobat 9.0 (Yes, I have just confessed to having printed a bit of LilyPond documentation at work.) I have also now tried monochrome black with CMYK red, which is probably the best output option, but the TeX code could be cleaned up. I have attached sample pages of the original and my latest variation for comparison. Perhaps someone else can print both pages and see a difference. Thanks, David, for humoring me as I figure this out! Andrew ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: patch to fix text color in PDF output
Andrew Hawryluk writes: > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 3:11 AM, David Kastrup wrote: >> Andrew Hawryluk writes: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Long ago I noticed that the text in our PDF manuals is fully black, >>> which results in rough-looking text when printed: >>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2008-10/msg00059.html >>> >>> Attached is a patch which corrects this, and the printed output is >>> noticeably improved. (The on-screen output is nearly >>> indistinguishable.) >>> >>> I'll send this to the TexInfo folks as well. >>> >>> Andrew >>> From b2608a3c68f677729d5b72379d18b978b8c6236a Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 >>> From: Andrew Hawryluk >>> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:14:42 -0600 >>> Subject: [PATCH] Fix TexInfo PDF output text color >>> >>> Changed CMKY colors to RGB colors, as RGB black prints >>> better than CMYK black on home printers. >> >> In that case, the "home printer" is broken. It might be conceivable to >> use greyscale black as an alternative, but RGB black appears like a bad >> choice for printing. >> >> Could you specify the details of your "home printer"? > > I have had identical results on two monochrome laser printers, using > both Evince and Acrobat Reader. The home printer is a Samsung ML-2010; > I don't remember what the work printer is. In either case, they seem > to compensate for the fact that cmyk (0 0 0 1) is not the darkest tone > available. Do you get different results in print? Sure do. So what driver with what setting converts your PDF to the respective printer language? -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: patch to fix text color in PDF output
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 3:11 AM, David Kastrup wrote: > Andrew Hawryluk writes: > >> Hi all, >> >> Long ago I noticed that the text in our PDF manuals is fully black, >> which results in rough-looking text when printed: >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2008-10/msg00059.html >> >> Attached is a patch which corrects this, and the printed output is >> noticeably improved. (The on-screen output is nearly >> indistinguishable.) >> >> I'll send this to the TexInfo folks as well. >> >> Andrew >> From b2608a3c68f677729d5b72379d18b978b8c6236a Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 >> From: Andrew Hawryluk >> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:14:42 -0600 >> Subject: [PATCH] Fix TexInfo PDF output text color >> >> Changed CMKY colors to RGB colors, as RGB black prints >> better than CMYK black on home printers. > > In that case, the "home printer" is broken. It might be conceivable to > use greyscale black as an alternative, but RGB black appears like a bad > choice for printing. > > Could you specify the details of your "home printer"? > > -- > David Kastrup > > > > ___ > lilypond-devel mailing list > lilypond-devel@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel > I have had identical results on two monochrome laser printers, using both Evince and Acrobat Reader. The home printer is a Samsung ML-2010; I don't remember what the work printer is. In either case, they seem to compensate for the fact that cmyk (0 0 0 1) is not the darkest tone available. Do you get different results in print? Ideally, the main color would be set to a monochrome black in the PDF, which requires either that color-setting syntax in texinfo.tex be written to accept different color spaces, or that the colors hold the expanded PDF literal. The first is beyond my TeX skills, while the second seems like a kludge, but I can try it later tonight to see if it solves the problem. I also forgot "Doc:" in the commit message, so I'll change that. Andrew ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: patch to fix text color in PDF output
Andrew Hawryluk writes: > Hi all, > > Long ago I noticed that the text in our PDF manuals is fully black, > which results in rough-looking text when printed: > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2008-10/msg00059.html > > Attached is a patch which corrects this, and the printed output is > noticeably improved. (The on-screen output is nearly > indistinguishable.) > > I'll send this to the TexInfo folks as well. > > Andrew > From b2608a3c68f677729d5b72379d18b978b8c6236a Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 > From: Andrew Hawryluk > Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:14:42 -0600 > Subject: [PATCH] Fix TexInfo PDF output text color > > Changed CMKY colors to RGB colors, as RGB black prints > better than CMYK black on home printers. In that case, the "home printer" is broken. It might be conceivable to use greyscale black as an alternative, but RGB black appears like a bad choice for printing. Could you specify the details of your "home printer"? -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: patch to fix text color in PDF output
"Trevor Daniels" writes: > Andrew Hawryluk wrote Thursday, August 13, 2009 4:18 AM >> >> Long ago I noticed that the text in our PDF manuals is fully black, >> which results in rough-looking text when printed: >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2008-10/msg00059.html The message actually complains that the text is _not_ fully black. >> Attached is a patch which corrects this, and the printed output is >> noticeably improved. (The on-screen output is nearly >> indistinguishable.) >> >> I'll send this to the TexInfo folks as well. > > I much prefer dark grey text over jet black. > Any chance we could try this out? On kainhofer > maybe? A PDF print has to be black, period. All zero in RGB, and in CMYK just K 1, and the rest zero. Everything else is asking for inferior results and is sabotaging the font rendering engine. If you don't like "jet black", that's something you need to tell your printer driver, not individual documents. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: patch to fix text color in PDF output
Andrew Hawryluk wrote Thursday, August 13, 2009 4:18 AM Long ago I noticed that the text in our PDF manuals is fully black, which results in rough-looking text when printed: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2008-10/msg00059.html Attached is a patch which corrects this, and the printed output is noticeably improved. (The on-screen output is nearly indistinguishable.) I'll send this to the TexInfo folks as well. I much prefer dark grey text over jet black. Any chance we could try this out? On kainhofer maybe? Trevor ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
