Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
Op woensdag 17-12-2008 om 09:52 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Werner LEMBERG: Hmm. I don't know either. Maybe a question for emacs-devel? Yep, turned out to be an Emacs bug. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2008-12/msg00877.html Jan. -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen jann...@gnu.org | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien | http://www.lilypond.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
On 19 Dec 2008, at 04:49, Graham Breed wrote: Keyboard maps can demand certain key stroke combinations for output, and can output a sequence of characters, I would think, because otherwise some Unicode combining character combinations might not be possible. So it might be possible to capture keywords - I do not know for sure. But if possible, and it also can be learned, it would be a fast input method. Maybe there's a distinction between a keyboard map and input method here. Yes, keyboard maps are more primitive. I am looking at links like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_method Keyboard maps may be one key to one character but input methods can be all manner of things. Keyboard maps are though not that primitive: one can demand a sequence of key strokes for a certain output, and I am not sure, but it Wubi's a good one to look up because it includes standard abbreviations. Like, here we go, typing tias gives you 毛泽东思想 which means Mao Zedong Thought (yes, the abbreviations they chose are generally political). There is a link here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wubi_method As there are fonts that can typeset by radical, I suggested earlier in this thread typing that way might be efficient. And this evidently what the Wubi method does. Thank you for mentioning this. There are text editors that can do the mapping as well. Yes, this should have been mentioned. I think there is such for Emacs (and Emacs is available on Mac OS X via MacPorts). And recently there was a post about JEdit http://www.jedit.org/ Just download, and choose the LilyPond plugin from the Plugin menu. For most of us it isn't work the trouble but if you're used to playing music with your computer keyboard I can see it would be more intuitive to enter it that way as well. Like using a MIDI keyboard with a sequencer. Yes, I have though of it, too. The meantone map might be efficient for standard diatonic music. Intermediate intervals could be entered using modifier keys. Hans ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008, Graham Breed gbr...@gmail.com said: 2008/12/19 Hans Aberg hab...@math.su.se: Maybe there's a distinction between a keyboard map and input method here. definately. Keyboard maps eat multiple keystrokes in a declared sequence intending to emit the encoding of one glyph; all done transparently as you type. input methods are more intrusive, involve one or more windows and sometimes the mouse too; they can emit several glyphs when done. -- Dana Emery ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
Hans Aberg wrote: You might call for using Unicode: r16 g♯( a g♯ f♯♯ g♯ c♯ e d♯ c♯ d♯ c♯ b♯ c♯ e g♯) This doesn't save keystrokes, though, does it? Can a user get ♯ with a single key? I think english.ly is still finest, the only possible improvement would be to find a single key for the ss and one for ff. I think x could be satisfactorily incorprated as a alternative substitute for ss, but I don't think there's a suitable ASCII character to capture ff. By the way, if both english.ly and deutsch.ly incorporated the utf-8 idea, German would win the minimal-size contest thanks to the b/h quirk of that language. - Mark ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
By the way, if both english.ly and deutsch.ly incorporated the utf-8 idea, German would win the minimal-size contest thanks to the b/h quirk of that language. Note that it is quite unusual in German to write `g#'; we almost always use `gis'. The same for the flat accidental. Werner ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
On 18 Dec 2008, at 10:11, Mark Polesky wrote: You might call for using Unicode: r16 g♯( a g♯ f♯♯ g♯ c♯ e d♯ c♯ d♯ c♯ b♯ c♯ e g♯) This doesn't save keystrokes, though, does it? Can a user get ♯ with a single key? Yes, with the right key map (keyboard layout), but I think you will have to design it for yourself. On Mac OS X, this can be done using Ukelele: http://scripts.sil.org/ukelele Perhaps LilyPond users should agree on one keyboard layout - it takes some effort to do. Hans ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
Hans == Hans Aberg hab...@math.su.se writes: Hans Perhaps LilyPond users should agree on one keyboard layout - Hans it takes some effort to do. This is the kind of suggestion that would only be made by a music software person who had never worked with vocal music. -- Laura (mailto:lcon...@laymusic.org http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 Copyright law has abandoned its reason for being: to encourage learning and the creation of new works. Instead, its principal functions now are to preserve existing failed business models, to suppress new business models and technologies, and to obtain, if possible, enormous windfall profits from activity that not only causes no harm, but which is beneficial to copyright owners. William Patry, in his farewell post on The Patry Copyright Blog. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
On 18 Dec 2008, at 16:53, Laura Conrad wrote: Hans Perhaps LilyPond users should agree on one keyboard layout - Hans it takes some effort to do. This is the kind of suggestion that would only be made by a music software person who had never worked with vocal music. If you want to fit all the world languages into one keyboard map, you might join the Unicode list; there are more than 10 characters available. Hans ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008, Hans Aberg hab...@math.su.se said: If you want to fit all the world languages into one keyboard map, you might join the Unicode list; there are more than 10 characters available. Unicode is a good solution for recording the result internally, but as far as I know keyboard layout is still an open issue, with a variety of standards groups at the country level offereing script-specific solutions that are probably irreconcilable to any kind of universal solution. Last I knew (Mac OS 7) Apple had effective script-specific keyboard layouts for simple writing systems that allowed direct entry (once switched to), and employed special typing agents for indirect C J K entry. Could be worse, historical chinese typesetting not only required fluency, but also physical handling of some 60,000 individual 'sorts' of characters; imagine that set of cases. -- Dana Emery ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
Hans == Hans Aberg hab...@math.su.se writes: Hans On 18 Dec 2008, at 16:53, Laura Conrad wrote: Hans Perhaps LilyPond users should agree on one keyboard layout - Hans it takes some effort to do. This is the kind of suggestion that would only be made by a music software person who had never worked with vocal music. Hans If you want to fit all the world languages into one keyboard map, I don't. My point was that unless you do, a lilypond-specific keyboard map isn't going to be usable for people who transcribe vocal music for all the world languages. -- Laura (mailto:lcon...@laymusic.org http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 From a pound of iron worth a few pennies can be made many thousand watch-springs, which are worth hundreds of thousands. Put to good use the pound that God has given you. Robert Schumann, Preface to 'Album für die Jugend' ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
On 18 Dec 2008, at 20:40, dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: If you want to fit all the world languages into one keyboard map, you might join the Unicode list; there are more than 10 characters available. Unicode is a good solution for recording the result internally, but as far as I know keyboard layout is still an open issue, with a variety of standards groups at the country level offereing script-specific solutions that are probably irreconcilable to any kind of universal solution. Right. So the best one can hope for is a series of keyboard maps that perhaps unify groups of characters, that those that so like may use. Last I knew (Mac OS 7) Apple had effective script-specific keyboard layouts for simple writing systems that allowed direct entry (once switched to), and employed special typing agents for indirect C J K entry. Mac OS X has a keyboard layout that allows one to enter a character by its Unicode number (code point). So there is then already at least one keyboard map that covers all Unicode characters. But it isn't very convenient. On the other hand, it is easy to switch keyboard maps, on mine it is commandspace. So it might be possible to make one layout for entering notes and accidentals. One can make a whole series, of course, that only needs somebody willing to do it. But keyboard maps can of course handle combining character sequences as well, covering many more characters. Could be worse, historical chinese typesetting not only required fluency, but also physical handling of some 60,000 individual 'sorts' of characters; imagine that set of cases. I do not know what they use - check on the Unicode list. One in the past that was claimed to be fast was to do some typing an then getting a display of possibilities, which one then chooses from. Modern fonts can typeset by radicals, so they do not need to store all characters; perhaps that can be used for typing as well. Hans ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
On 18 Dec 2008, at 20:54, Laura Conrad wrote: Hans If you want to fit all the world languages into one keyboard map, I don't. My point was that unless you do, a lilypond-specific keyboard map isn't going to be usable for people who transcribe vocal music for all the world languages. So why can't you switch keyboard map when entering language specific text? Hans ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008, Hans Aberg hab...@math.su.se said:
On 18 Dec 2008, at 20:40, dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote:
Unicode is a good solution for recording the result internally
Right. So the best one can hope for is a series of keyboard maps that
perhaps unify groups of characters, that those that so like may use.
The issue is to create a UTF-8 text file with linguistic content from
several writing scripts, right? Choose an OS and a text processor that
supports that and you have whatever you need for lyrics and other
arbitrary text.
Keywords are a different issue. Yes, it is a bit strange that parts of Ly
are english and other parts are not. Ly is the first programming language
I have seen which allows a choice of language for programming keywords.
Macintosh Fonts with unusual encodings (eg, IPA) can include a key-glyph
mapping table (KCHR reseource) that the OS automagically employs when the
typing focus is directed at a field employing that font ('Font' menu has
it checked). The KCHR resource is something human beings can create (with
effort) using ResEdit or Resourcerer; I think Fontographer will also make
one.
Mac, and maybe PC, used to have utillities which would allow you to
program the F-keys so they would execute macros (perhaps typing arbitrary
text). Might be that this is no longer feasible because of improved
memory protection under OS X, dunno. F1-12, hmmm, twelve keys...
On the other hand, it is easy to switch keyboard maps, on mine it is
commandspace.
Used to be commandspace cycled between installed scripts, rotating the
chosen font and associated KCHR. Confusing if you have more than two
installed.
I do not know what they [chinese] use - check on the Unicode list.
I was refering to historical chinese typesetting, ca 1300 AD; before
computers. OT digression, sorry.
Google on 'Pinyin' gets hits on description of some of the Chinese input
methods for the terminally curious.
--
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Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
Hi, On Thu, 18 Dec 2008, Hans Aberg wrote: On 18 Dec 2008, at 22:28, dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: Right. So the best one can hope for is a series of keyboard maps that perhaps unify groups of characters, that those that so like may use. The issue is to create a UTF-8 text file with linguistic content from several writing scripts, right? Choose an OS and a text processor that supports that and you have whatever you need for lyrics and other arbitrary text. Right. On Mac OS X, just use commandspace or whatever you set it to change key map. Right, let's make things complicated. No, but thanks, no, Dscho ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
2008/12/19 Johannes Schindelin johannes.schinde...@gmx.de: Hi, On Thu, 18 Dec 2008, Hans Aberg wrote: Right. On Mac OS X, just use commandspace or whatever you set it to change key map. Right, let's make things complicated. No, but thanks, no, So how do you switch to Chinese input? Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
2008/12/19 Hans Aberg hab...@math.su.se: Keyboard maps can demand certain key stroke combinations for output, and can output a sequence of characters, I would think, because otherwise some Unicode combining character combinations might not be possible. So it might be possible to capture keywords - I do not know for sure. But if possible, and it also can be learned, it would be a fast input method. Maybe there's a distinction between a keyboard map and input method here. Keyboard maps may be one key to one character but input methods can be all manner of things. Wubi's a good one to look up because it includes standard abbreviations. Like, here we go, typing tias gives you 毛泽东思想 which means Mao Zedong Thought (yes, the abbreviations they chose are generally political). There are text editors that can do the mapping as well. For most of us it isn't work the trouble but if you're used to playing music with your computer keyboard I can see it would be more intuitive to enter it that way as well. Like using a MIDI keyboard with a sequencer. Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
Op dinsdag 16-12-2008 om 22:27 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Werner
LEMBERG:
although (with read-quoted-char-radix=16) C-Q 1d12a RET does not
give me a double sharp?
What do you mean? A wrong code point or a missing glyph?
Actually I have no idea how emacs juggles fonts.
I installed unifont and that fixed it for GEdit, but in emacs it even
removed sharp and flat to display little boxes.
Then I installed emacs-snapshot (with xft backend), sharp
and flat are back, but none from the music block starting
at 0x1d12a shows.
Jan.
--
Jan Nieuwenhuizen jann...@gnu.org | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien | http://www.lilypond.org
\header {
texidoc =
Unicode symbols for sharp and flat can be used in note names.
[WIP: for C only, only in nederlands.ly]
}
\version 2.11.51
{
♭♭c c♭ c c♯ c♯♯
}
%{
double sharp: 턪
double flat: 턫
flat^: 턬
flatv: 턭
neutral^: 턮
neutralv: 턯
sharp^: 터
sharpv: 턱
sharp4: 턲
flat4: 턳
'♭' (U+266D)
0xF0 0x9D 0x84 0xAB (f09d84ab)
%}
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Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
2008/12/17 Bertalan Fodor lilypondt...@organum.hu: Once a French conductor sang the melody a a gis a g fis g with the words la la sol la sol fa sol. It was very funny. Then you could die of laughing if you come to any of the orchestras, music schools or conservatoires in Spain... -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) http://www.paconet.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
I installed unifont and that fixed it for GEdit, but in emacs it even removed sharp and flat to display little boxes. Then I installed emacs-snapshot (with xft backend), sharp and flat are back, but none from the music block starting at 0x1d12a shows. Hmm. I don't know either. Maybe a question for emacs-devel? Werner ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
No it, can't be. Think of Bb H in german etc. Graham Percival wrote: On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 02:48:43PM +0100, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: Op dinsdag 16-12-2008 om 13:07 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Hans Aberg: You need a font, though, and perhaps a special key map, too. Now that's a fun idea. It even works! Could this be an independant language? I don't see why it's stuffed into ly/nederlands.ly (other than this being the default). Could it be ly/utf8.ly instead? Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
Op dinsdag 16-12-2008 om 05:58 uur [tijdzone -0800], schreef Graham Percival: Could this be an independant language? I don't see why it's stuffed into ly/nederlands.ly (other than this being the default). Could it be ly/utf8.ly instead? So it should be, left as an excercise to I-won-t-say-the-Reader-in-this-case ;-) Jan. -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen jann...@gnu.org | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien | http://www.lilypond.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
Op dinsdag 16-12-2008 om 15:58 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Hans Aberg: On 16 Dec 2008, at 14:48, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: You might call for using Unicode: r16 g♯( a g♯ f♯♯ g♯ c♯ e d♯ c♯ d♯ c♯ b♯ c♯ e g♯) You need a font, though, and perhaps a special key map, too. Now that's a fun idea. It even works! Thank you. I think it increases readability, too. If you want readabilty, why not have ♯g( a ♯g ♯♯f etc? For typeability, ymmv though. Jan. -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen jann...@gnu.org | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien | http://www.lilypond.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
But then why not use a font like this: http://www.icogitate.com/~ergosum/fonts/musicfonts.htm Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: Op dinsdag 16-12-2008 om 15:58 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Hans Aberg: On 16 Dec 2008, at 14:48, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: You might call for using Unicode: r16 g♯( a g♯ f♯♯ g♯ c♯ e d♯ c♯ d♯ c♯ b♯ c♯ e g♯) You need a font, though, and perhaps a special key map, too. Now that's a fun idea. It even works! Thank you. I think it increases readability, too. If you want readabilty, why not have ♯g( a ♯g ♯♯f etc? For typeability, ymmv though. Jan. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
On 12/16/08 8:58 AM, Jan Nieuwenhuizen janneke-l...@xs4all.nl wrote: Op dinsdag 16-12-2008 om 15:58 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Hans Aberg: On 16 Dec 2008, at 14:48, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: You might call for using Unicode: r16 g♯( a g♯ f♯♯ g♯ c♯ e d♯ c♯ d♯ c♯ b♯ c♯ e g♯) You need a font, though, and perhaps a special key map, too. Now that's a fun idea. It even works! Thank you. I think it increases readability, too. If you want readabilty, why not have ♯g( a ♯g ♯♯f etc? For typeability, ymmv though. I think that, even though accidentals come before the note in musical output, in the text stream g# is much more readable than #g. Carl ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
On 16 Dec 2008, at 05:58, Mark Polesky wrote: You might call for using Unicode: r16 g♯( a g♯ f♯♯ g♯ c♯ e d♯ c♯ d♯ c♯ b♯ c♯ e g♯) You need a font, though, and perhaps a special key map, too. Now that's a fun idea. It even works! Well, I then suggest to be consequent, using the following Unicode characters instead of ♯♯ and ♭♭: U+1D12A MUSICAL SYMBOL DOUBLE SHARP U+1D12B MUSICAL SYMBOL DOUBLE FLAT BTW, arrowed accidentals are available also: U+1D12C MUSICAL SYMBOL FLAT UP U+1D12D MUSICAL SYMBOL FLAT DOWN U+1D12E MUSICAL SYMBOL NATURAL UP U+1D12F MUSICAL SYMBOL NATURAL DOWN U+1D130 MUSICAL SYMBOL SHARP UP U+1D131 MUSICAL SYMBOL SHARP DOWN Werner ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
On 16 Dec 2008, at 05:58, Mark Polesky wrote: English uses the fewest keystrokes. Computer languages no more attempt to minimize the number of keystrokes, as code tends to be unreadable. For comparison, here's a measure from Chopin's Fantasie-impromptu: English: r16 gs( a gs fss gs cs e ds cs ds cs bs cs e gs) You might call for using Unicode: r16 g♯( a g♯ f♯♯ g♯ c♯ e d♯ c♯ d♯ c♯ b♯ c♯ e g♯) You need a font, though, and perhaps a special key map, too. Hans ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
Hi Carl, I think that, even though accidentals come before the note in musical output, in the text stream g# is much more readable than #g. Agreed — at least in English, one says (i.e., reads) g sharp not sharp g. Best, Kieren. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
On 16 Dec 2008, at 14:48, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: You might call for using Unicode: r16 g♯( a g♯ f♯♯ g♯ c♯ e d♯ c♯ d♯ c♯ b♯ c♯ e g♯) You need a font, though, and perhaps a special key map, too. Now that's a fun idea. It even works! Thank you. I think it increases readability, too. Hans ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
On 16 Dec 2008, at 15:06, Werner LEMBERG wrote: Well, I then suggest to be consequent, using the following Unicode characters instead of ♯♯ and ♭♭: U+1D12A MUSICAL SYMBOL DOUBLE SHARP U+1D12B MUSICAL SYMBOL DOUBLE FLAT Sure, only that both should possible to use, in Western music notation they are equivalent. I think that in some music notation, they might be inequivalent. So the equivalence should not be hard-coded. Hans ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 02:48:43PM +0100, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: Op dinsdag 16-12-2008 om 13:07 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Hans Aberg: You need a font, though, and perhaps a special key map, too. Now that's a fun idea. It even works! Could this be an independant language? I don't see why it's stuffed into ly/nederlands.ly (other than this being the default). Could it be ly/utf8.ly instead? Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 2:58 AM, Mark Polesky markpole...@yahoo.com wrote: Why is Dutch the default language for note-entry? English uses the fewest keystrokes. For comparison, here's a measure from Chopin's Fantasie-impromptu: because we are Dutch, and because we think the Dutch are better in general: you can actually sing notes while you recite them, as they are monosyllabic. -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - han...@xs4all.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
Op dinsdag 16-12-2008 om 13:07 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Hans Aberg:
On 16 Dec 2008, at 05:58, Mark Polesky wrote:
You might call for using Unicode:
r16 g♯( a g♯ f♯♯ g♯ c♯ e d♯ c♯ d♯ c♯ b♯ c♯ e
g♯)
You need a font, though, and perhaps a special key map, too.
Now that's a fun idea. It even works!
Jan.
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From 754e0a023043e6fc9a25a17fcc1da83b78528ab4 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Jan Nieuwenhuizen jann...@gnu.org
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:42:04 +0100
Subject: [PATCH] Add UTF8 sharp and flat to nederlands.ly.
---
input/regression/ulily.ly | 12
lily/lexer.ll |2 +-
ly/nederlands.ly | 11 +++
3 files changed, 24 insertions(+), 1 deletions(-)
create mode 100644 input/regression/ulily.ly
diff --git a/input/regression/ulily.ly b/input/regression/ulily.ly
new file mode 100644
index 000..f58de1e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/input/regression/ulily.ly
@@ -0,0 +1,12 @@
+\header {
+texidoc =
+Unicode symbols for sharp and flat can be used in note names.
+[WIP: for C only, only in nederlands.ly]
+
+}
+
+\version 2.11.51
+
+{
+c♭♭ c♭ c c♯ c♯♯
+}
diff --git a/lily/lexer.ll b/lily/lexer.ll
index 8dd7667..79bbb46 100644
--- a/lily/lexer.ll
+++ b/lily/lexer.ll
@@ -113,7 +113,7 @@ SCM (* scm_parse_error_handler) (void *);
%x sourcefilename
%x version
-A [a-zA-Z\200-\377]
+A [a-zA-Z\200-\377]|(\150\564|\150\565)
AA {A}|_
N [0-9]
AN {AA}|{N}
diff --git a/ly/nederlands.ly b/ly/nederlands.ly
index eed0653..3e1d432 100644
--- a/ly/nederlands.ly
+++ b/ly/nederlands.ly
@@ -7,6 +7,17 @@ notenames should only contain letters. No digits or punctuation.
%}
dutchPitchnames = #`(
+ (c♭♭ . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 DOUBLE-FLAT))
+;; (ceh . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 SEMI-FLAT))
+ (c . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 FLAT))
+;; (ceseh . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 THREE-Q-FLAT))
+ (c♭ . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 NATURAL))
+ (c♯ . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 SHARP))
+;; (cih . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 SEMI-SHARP))
+;; (cisih . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 THREE-Q-SHARP))
+ (c♯♯ . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 DOUBLE-SHARP))
+ (d♭♭ . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 DOUBLE-FLAT))
+
(ceses . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 DOUBLE-FLAT))
(ceh . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 SEMI-FLAT))
--
1.6.0.rc1.49.g98a8
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Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
Le 16.12.2008 17:20, Carl D. Sorensen disait : On 12/16/08 8:58 AM, Jan Nieuwenhuizen janneke-l...@xs4all.nl wrote: Op dinsdag 16-12-2008 om 15:58 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Hans Aberg: On 16 Dec 2008, at 14:48, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: You might call for using Unicode: r16 g♯( a g♯ f♯♯ g♯ c♯ e d♯ c♯ d♯ c♯ b♯ c♯ e g♯) You need a font, though, and perhaps a special key map, too. Now that's a fun idea. It even works! Thank you. I think it increases readability, too. If you want readabilty, why not have ♯g( a ♯g ♯♯f etc? For typeability, ymmv though. I think that, even though accidentals come before the note in musical output, in the text stream g# is much more readable than #g. I would have beaten the the world record of the 100m escaping out of the music school if I would have had to say double bémol sol. Nevertheless it is a matter of vocal cords, I still sing sol and not fa... Jean-Charles ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
Hi, On Tue, 16 Dec 2008, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote: On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 2:58 AM, Mark Polesky markpole...@yahoo.com wrote: Why is Dutch the default language for note-entry? English uses the fewest keystrokes. For comparison, here's a measure from Chopin's Fantasie-impromptu: because we are Dutch, and because we think the Dutch are better in general. I also think that. Who gives a damn about the Americans anyway. you can actually sing notes while you recite them, as they are monosyllabic. aisis. Ciao, Dscho ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
I would have beaten the the world record of the 100m escaping out of the music school if I would have had to say double bémol sol. Nevertheless it is a matter of vocal cords, I still sing sol and not fa... Once a French conductor sang the melody a a gis a g fis g with the words la la sol la sol fa sol. It was very funny. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: why is Dutch the default language for note-entry?
Mark Polesky wrote: Why is Dutch the default language for note-entry? Because the originators of LilyPond are Dutch. -David English uses the fewest keystrokes. For comparison, here's a measure from Chopin's Fantasie-impromptu: English: r16 gs( a gs fss gs cs e ds cs ds cs bs cs e gs) Dutch: r16 gis( a gis fisis gis cis e dis cis dis cis bis cis e gis) 49 keystrokes in English compared with 62 in Dutch. English allows for 20% less typing in this example. I think the LM / NR should at least mention that. - Mark p.s. Incidentally, in keys with fewer accidentals, the languages with the most keystrokes are Arabic/ Catalan/Spanish/Italian/Portuguese/Flemish. In keys with many accidentals, Swedish is the worst. More Chopin... Arabic/Catalan/Italian: r16 sold( la sold fadd sold dod mi red dod red dod sid dod mi sold) Catalan/Spanish/Portuguese: r16 sols( la sols fass sols dos mi res dos res dos sis dos mi sols) Flemish: r16 solk( la solk fakk solk dok mi rek dok rek dok sik dok mi solk) Swedish: r16 giss( a giss fississ giss ciss e diss ciss diss ciss biss ciss e giss) ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
