Spare SSD anybody?
Hi, my current development SSD, graciously donated by James, currently has the following readings: Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 099 099 ---Pre-fail Always - 13 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 094 094 ---Old_age Always - 25748 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 093 093 ---Old_age Always - 6196 175 Program_Fail_Count_Chip 0x0032 099 099 ---Old_age Always - 9 176 Erase_Fail_Count_Chip 0x0032 100 100 ---Old_age Always - 0 177 Wear_Leveling_Count 0x0013 085 085 ---Pre-fail Always - 545 178 Used_Rsvd_Blk_Cnt_Chip 0x0013 077 077 ---Pre-fail Always - 450 179 Used_Rsvd_Blk_Cnt_Tot 0x0013 079 079 ---Pre-fail Always - 844 180 Unused_Rsvd_Blk_Cnt_Tot 0x0013 079 079 ---Pre-fail Always - 3188 181 Program_Fail_Cnt_Total 0x0032 099 099 ---Old_age Always - 13 182 Erase_Fail_Count_Total 0x0032 100 100 ---Old_age Always - 0 183 Runtime_Bad_Block 0x0013 099 099 ---Pre-fail Always - 13 187 Uncorrectable_Error_Cnt 0x0032 100 100 ---Old_age Always - 0 195 ECC_Error_Rate 0x001a 200 200 ---Old_age Always - 0 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0030 100 100 ---Old_age Offline - 0 199 CRC_Error_Count 0x003e 253 253 ---Old_age Always - 0 232 Available_Reservd_Space 0x0013 077 077 ---Pre-fail Always - 1566 241 Total_LBAs_Written 0x0032 032 032 ---Old_age Always - 2933093682 242 Total_LBAs_Read 0x0032 058 058 ---Old_age Always - 1798843749 In the interest of continuity, it seems like a good idea to replace it soon. I might return to a rotating disk (which has quite less wear but is more sensitive to movement, draws more current, and of course is slower). After changing my kernel to 64bit, I am currently in the situation that the computer will no longer wake successfully from sleep mode (screen stays black), so I have to use hibernation instead. That's nice on the battery but sloshes out gigabytes of memory to disk each time. So it's not really helping with regard to SSD wear. I don't have all that much free capacity either, so what I have is being cycled often. Anybody with something to spare? The current size I have is 120GB. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Spare SSD anybody?
David Kastrup writes: > Hi, > > my current development SSD, graciously donated by James, currently has > the following readings: > > Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: > ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED > WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE > 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 099 099 ---Pre-fail Always > - 13 > 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 094 094 ---Old_age Always > - 25748 Ok, I might have been panicking because of all the lines with "Pre-fail" and "Old_age" but they only indicate the _category_ of the respective settings. Sorry for that. I'm still trying to figure out the readings as such though. The "documentation" including online is not much help. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Spare SSD anybody?
- Original Message - From: "Michael Hendry" To: "David Kastrup" Cc: ; Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2016 10:44 AM Subject: Re: Spare SSD anybody? Surely an SSD is entirely Solid State, so can’t wear out in the way a mechanical device does. Wrong. http://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Spare SSD anybody?
On 2016-06-01 11:07, David Kastrup wrote: David Kastrup writes: Hi, my current development SSD, graciously donated by James, currently has the following readings: Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 099 099 ---Pre-fail Always - 13 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 094 094 ---Old_age Always - 25748 Ok, I might have been panicking because of all the lines with "Pre-fail" and "Old_age" but they only indicate the _category_ of the respective settings. Sorry for that. I'm still trying to figure out the readings as such though. The "documentation" including online is not much help. Hi David, recently I was afraid about my SSD for the same reason, so I asked our institute's IT service staff who cares for some dozens (hundreds?) of laptops and desktops with SSDs. They say that even power users of hibernation with high rate of data turnover didn't manage to damage their SSDs lately; the horror stories for the first generations of SSDs seem not to apply anymore. You still have to take a bit of care (try to have some empty space, and run fstrim once in a while), but other than that you should be fine. As you experienced, the SMART information is rather unhelpful unless you have additional context by the manufacturer; more often than not, the only semi-reliable source are the manufacturer's own toolkits (which, unfortunately, are hardly available on Linux). However, there have been a few reports in the past about shaky power supply for the disks, probably when laptop batteries grow older. Some SSDs cope with that without problems, others are very sensitive to voltage differences (?) and suddenly become unstable. Signs of this behavior are ATA warning messages concerning the "ATA interface" in dmesg output, such as those: https://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php/The_Analysis_of_Drive_Issues Quote: "There have been too many cases of drives thrown out or returned by an RMA process, when the problem was just a bad cable!" - which exactly matches the experience of our IT. If drives barf out for those reason, they have always been able to copy the contents with an external adapter - annoying, but not dangerous. That being said: which form factor/connector do you need? I can ask if I can grab something. Many parts from few-year old machines are sorted out regularly here. Not sure about hard disks, though - there might be regulations for data protection that prevent them from giving out old drives. Cheers, Alexander ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Spare SSD anybody?
Michael Hendry writes: >> On 1 Jun 2016, at 10:07, David Kastrup wrote: >> >> David Kastrup writes: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> my current development SSD, graciously donated by James, currently has >>> the following readings: >>> >>> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: >>> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED >>> RAW_VALUE >>> 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 099 099 --- Pre-fail Always - 13 >>> 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 094 094 --- Old_age Always - 25748 >> >> Ok, I might have been panicking because of all the lines with "Pre-fail" >> and "Old_age" but they only indicate the _category_ of the respective >> settings. Sorry for that. >> >> I'm still trying to figure out the readings as such though. The >> "documentation" including online is not much help. > > > Surely an SSD is entirely Solid State, so can’t wear out in the way a > mechanical device does. Seriously? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wear_leveling>. Which is why SSD drives are great for servers and are put through the mills as swap drive. > Eventually, I suppose, even solid state devices will fail, but I doubt > that SMART monitoring will give you advance warning of this. It can keep track of the individual block wear pretty well, and the average number of reliable block erasures is also known. So failures are not _exceptional_ but predictable. So storage deterioration is predictable as well as monitorable (either CRC errors or uncleared bits directly after erasure). You can get a hint about the bearings of a rotating disk by monitoring its spinup (and noticing irregularities in operation) but actual failures tend to come suddenly as platter damage affecting an area. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Spare SSD anybody?
Alexander Kobel writes: > recently I was afraid about my SSD for the same reason, so I asked our > institute's IT service staff who cares for some dozens (hundreds?) of > laptops and desktops with SSDs. > > They say that even power users of hibernation with high rate of data > turnover didn't manage to damage their SSDs lately; the horror stories > for the first generations of SSDs seem not to apply anymore. Well, I am not sure I have significantly later than first generation... === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Model Family: Samsung based SSDs Device Model: SAMSUNG SSD PM810 2.5" 7mm 128GB Serial Number:S0NRNEAB524258 LU WWN Device Id: 5 f0 0 Firmware Version: AXM08D1Q User Capacity:128,035,676,160 bytes [128 GB] Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical Rotation Rate:Solid State Device Device is:In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: ATA8-ACS, ATA/ATAPI-7 T13/1532D revision 1 SATA Version is: SATA 2.6, 3.0 Gb/s (current: 1.5 Gb/s) Local Time is:Wed Jun 1 12:23:20 2016 CEST SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled > You still have to take a bit of care (try to have some empty space, > and run fstrim once in a while), but other than that you should be > fine. As you experienced, the SMART information is rather unhelpful > unless you have additional context by the manufacturer; more often > than not, the only semi-reliable source are the manufacturer's own > toolkits (which, unfortunately, are hardly available on Linux). > That being said: which form factor/connector do you need? SATA, 2.5". > I can ask if I can grab something. Many parts from few-year old > machines are sorted out regularly here. Not sure about hard disks, > though - there might be regulations for data protection that prevent > them from giving out old drives. Sure, it would be nice to keep in mind. I'm not really sure what the expected lifetime of the disk I have is. Maybe I just need to keep making backups in sane intervals and otherwise am still fine. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Spare SSD anybody?
> On 1 Jun 2016, at 10:58, Phil Holmes wrote: > > - Original Message - From: "Michael Hendry" > To: "David Kastrup" > Cc: ; > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2016 10:44 AM > Subject: Re: Spare SSD anybody? > > >> Surely an SSD is entirely Solid State, so can’t wear out in the way a >> mechanical device does. > > Wrong. > http://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead Damn! Should have done some Googling before making a fool of myself! M ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Spare SSD anybody?
> On 1 Jun 2016, at 10:07, David Kastrup wrote: > > David Kastrup writes: > >> Hi, >> >> my current development SSD, graciously donated by James, currently has >> the following readings: >> >> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: >> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED >> WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE >> 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 099 099 ---Pre-fail Always >> - 13 >> 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 094 094 ---Old_age Always >> - 25748 > > Ok, I might have been panicking because of all the lines with "Pre-fail" > and "Old_age" but they only indicate the _category_ of the respective > settings. Sorry for that. > > I'm still trying to figure out the readings as such though. The > "documentation" including online is not much help. Surely an SSD is entirely Solid State, so can’t wear out in the way a mechanical device does. Eventually, I suppose, even solid state devices will fail, but I doubt that SMART monitoring will give you advance warning of this. Michael ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Spare SSD anybody?
Dr Nicholas Bailey writes: > On Wednesday, 1 June 2016 12:36:02 BST David Kastrup wrote: >> Alexander Kobel writes: >> ... >> >> Sure, it would be nice to keep in mind. I'm not really sure what the >> expected lifetime of the disk I have is. Maybe I just need to keep >> making backups in sane intervals and otherwise am still fine. > > I had cause to look into this recently and came across the following. > Executive summary: everything is fine now and new SSDs last forever. Well, I don't exactly have a new SSD... > http://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead > > It's on the internet so it must be true :) (I expect more > authoritative tests are available). > > I'm using a hybrid 1TB in my laptop at the moment with no problems > with Debian Stretch GNU/Linux as the only OS installed. These devices > feature typically 8GB or so of flash with the majority of the storage > being on the whirlydisk. What the flash gets used for is up to the > drive. Well, I'll just stick with what I have until replacement is mandatory or convenient. And then I (or more likely the facts) can decide on the parameters... -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Spare SSD anybody?
On Wednesday, 1 June 2016 12:36:02 BST David Kastrup wrote: > Alexander Kobel writes: > ... > > Sure, it would be nice to keep in mind. I'm not really sure what the > expected lifetime of the disk I have is. Maybe I just need to keep > making backups in sane intervals and otherwise am still fine. I had cause to look into this recently and came across the following. Executive summary: everything is fine now and new SSDs last forever. http://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead It's on the internet so it must be true :) (I expect more authoritative tests are available). I'm using a hybrid 1TB in my laptop at the moment with no problems with Debian Stretch GNU/Linux as the only OS installed. These devices feature typically 8GB or so of flash with the majority of the storage being on the whirlydisk. What the flash gets used for is up to the drive. With no tweaking or setup, it appears to me to be much faster than the old 1TB drive (only whirly, no flash), which I replaced because of increasingly frequent heat-related failures after it been running for 4 hours or so. Nick/. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
