Re: lilypond ChangeLog Documentation/user/examples....
On Wednesday 20 September 2006 19:13, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> Erik Sandberg wrote:
> > Similarly, why can't
> > \withoutput \layout {} \music
> > just be a function that returns a Score object (such as the one described
> > above)?
>
> It sure can, I thought that people wanted to have a sane way to set the
> default tempo in the midi block.
OK; I just don't understand what in your proposed syntax change that would
make midi \tempo more natural.
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Re: lilypond ChangeLog Documentation/user/examples....
Erik Sandberg wrote:
Similarly, why can't
\withoutput \layout {} \music
just be a function that returns a Score object (such as the one described
above)?
It sure can, I thought that people wanted to have a sane way to set the
default tempo in the midi block.
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Re: lilypond ChangeLog Documentation/user/examples....
On Monday 18 September 2006 12:44, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> Erik Sandberg wrote:
> > How about
> > \score {
> > { c d e }
> > \midi{ pre = \tempo 4. = 70 }
> > }
> > ?
> >
> > (I.e., \tempo is a music expression => it's not a grammatical exception)
> >
> > Semantics: If pre is set, then embed main input in a SequentialMusic when
> > interpreting music for midi. So instead of interpreting { c d e } above,
> > we interpret the expression:
> > { \tempo 4.=70 { c d e } }
>
> This is a smart idea. Syntactically, I'm not a big fan of this (the
> double = is a little strange). However, it would be easy to encapsulate
> this with a Scheme expression,
>
>
>#(set-midi-tempo "4." 70)
>
> however, we would need to have a separate music expression for each
> output block.
in that case, why not stick with the following, which already works?
\score { {\tempo 4.=70 \music} \midi {}}
\score { \music \layout {}}
> That would nicely match with a syntax change along the lines of
>
>
>\withoutput \layout { .. } {music expression}
>
>\withoutput \midi { .. } {music expression}
>
> This implies that music functions are definitely allowed to have side
> effects, so it's a syntax change that has some serious repercussions.
Similarly, why can't
\withoutput \layout {} \music
just be a function that returns a Score object (such as the one described
above)?
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Re: lilypond ChangeLog Documentation/user/examples....
Erik Sandberg wrote:
On Sunday 27 August 2006 17:41, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
Graham Percival wrote:
I'm sure that there's some reason why "\tempo x = y" is a horrible
construct and must be replaced, but
\context {
\Score
tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment y x)
}
looks unnecessarily complicated. If that's the way it's going to be,
I'll document it, but... why this? Do we want to allow users to have
different tempo in different Staff contexts?
we can hvae something like
#(set-tempo "4" 70)
or maybe
tempo = #70
\tempo has to go, because it is strange exception to the general syntax.
How about
\score {
{ c d e }
\midi{ pre = \tempo 4. = 70 }
}
?
(I.e., \tempo is a music expression => it's not a grammatical exception)
Semantics: If pre is set, then embed main input in a SequentialMusic when
interpreting music for midi. So instead of interpreting { c d e } above, we
interpret the expression:
{ \tempo 4.=70 { c d e } }
This is a smart idea. Syntactically, I'm not a big fan of this (the
double = is a little strange). However, it would be easy to encapsulate
this with a Scheme expression,
#(set-midi-tempo "4." 70)
however, we would need to have a separate music expression for each
output block.
That would nicely match with a syntax change along the lines of
\withoutput \layout { .. } {music expression}
\withoutput \midi { .. } {music expression}
This implies that music functions are definitely allowed to have side
effects, so it's a syntax change that has some serious repercussions.
ideas, comments?
--
Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen
LilyPond Software Design
-- Code for Music Notation
http://www.lilypond-design.com
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Re: lilypond ChangeLog Documentation/user/examples....
Mats Bengtsson wrote: Great! However, according to http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2003-10/msg00069.html it's maybe not the correct solution. This is now fixed in CVS. However, I expect some more MIDI related problems to turn up in relation to this cleanup. -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen LilyPond Software Design -- Code for Music Notation http://www.lilypond-design.com ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: lilypond ChangeLog Documentation/user/examples....
Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
Mats Bengtsson wrote:
Note that it's a severe limitation if the MIDI tempo can only be set
in the \midi{...} block, since then you cannot change the tempo on
the middle of a piece. Previously, the MIDI tempo has
been taken both from settings in the \midi block as well as from
all \tempo commands throughout the piece (even though the generated
MIDI code doesn't work well with all MIDI interpreters). Based on the
syntax of the new construct, it seems that it's still
possible to change the tempo in the middle of a score, but I haven't
looked under the hood or tried any example to verify if it really works.
Even better, since Score.tempoWholesPerMinutes, is inherited by each
stave, tempo changes will happen on each track, which should fix
problems with QuickTime playback.
Great! However, according to
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2003-10/msg00069.html
it's maybe not the correct solution.
/Mats
--
=
Mats Bengtsson
Signal Processing
Signals, Sensors and Systems
Royal Institute of Technology
SE-100 44 STOCKHOLM
Sweden
Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463
Fax: (+46) 8 790 7260
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe
=
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Re: lilypond ChangeLog Documentation/user/examples....
On Sunday 27 August 2006 17:41, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> Graham Percival wrote:
> > I'm sure that there's some reason why "\tempo x = y" is a horrible
> > construct and must be replaced, but
> > \context {
> > \Score
> > tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment y x)
> > }
> > looks unnecessarily complicated. If that's the way it's going to be,
> > I'll document it, but... why this? Do we want to allow users to have
> > different tempo in different Staff contexts?
>
> we can hvae something like
>
> #(set-tempo "4" 70)
>
> or maybe
>
>tempo = #70
>
> \tempo has to go, because it is strange exception to the general syntax.
How about
\score {
{ c d e }
\midi{ pre = \tempo 4. = 70 }
}
?
(I.e., \tempo is a music expression => it's not a grammatical exception)
Semantics: If pre is set, then embed main input in a SequentialMusic when
interpreting music for midi. So instead of interpreting { c d e } above, we
interpret the expression:
{ \tempo 4.=70 { c d e } }
--
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Re: lilypond ChangeLog Documentation/user/examples....
Mats Bengtsson wrote:
Note that it's a severe limitation if the MIDI tempo can only be set in
the \midi{...} block, since then you cannot change the tempo on the
middle of a piece. Previously, the MIDI tempo has
been taken both from settings in the \midi block as well as from
all \tempo commands throughout the piece (even though the generated
MIDI code doesn't work well with all MIDI interpreters). Based on the
syntax of the new construct, it seems that it's still
possible to change the tempo in the middle of a score, but I haven't
looked under the hood or tried any example to verify if it really works.
Even better, since Score.tempoWholesPerMinutes, is inherited by each
stave, tempo changes will happen on each track, which should fix
problems with QuickTime playback.
--
Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen
LilyPond Software Design
-- Code for Music Notation
http://www.lilypond-design.com
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Re: lilypond ChangeLog Documentation/user/examples....
Note that it's a severe limitation if the MIDI tempo can only be set in
the \midi{...} block, since then you cannot change the tempo on the
middle of a piece. Previously, the MIDI tempo has
been taken both from settings in the \midi block as well as from
all \tempo commands throughout the piece (even though the generated
MIDI code doesn't work well with all MIDI interpreters). Based on the
syntax of the new construct, it seems that it's still
possible to change the tempo in the middle of a score, but I haven't
looked under the hood or tried any example to verify if it really works.
/Mats
Quoting Graham Percival <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
we can hvae something like
#(set-tempo "4" 70)
or maybe
tempo = #70
But not
\midi{
tempo = 4. 60
}
?
I'll leave this issue for other people to work out; when it's been
finalized, I'll update the manual. IMO the tempo should be set
inside the \midi{} instead of as a #(...), but I don't know enough
about lilypond internals (numbers, durations, music function
arguments, etc) to give useful suggestions about the exact syntax.
- Graham
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Re: lilypond ChangeLog Documentation/user/examples....
Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
we can hvae something like
#(set-tempo "4" 70)
or maybe
tempo = #70
But not
\midi{
tempo = 4. 60
}
?
I'll leave this issue for other people to work out; when it's been
finalized, I'll update the manual. IMO the tempo should be set inside
the \midi{} instead of as a #(...), but I don't know enough about
lilypond internals (numbers, durations, music function arguments, etc)
to give useful suggestions about the exact syntax.
- Graham
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Re: lilypond ChangeLog Documentation/user/examples....
Graham Percival wrote:
I'm sure that there's some reason why "\tempo x = y" is a horrible
construct and must be replaced, but
\context {
\Score
tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment y x)
}
looks unnecessarily complicated. If that's the way it's going to be,
I'll document it, but... why this? Do we want to allow users to have
different tempo in different Staff contexts?
we can hvae something like
#(set-tempo "4" 70)
or maybe
tempo = #70
\tempo has to go, because it is strange exception to the general syntax.
--
Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen
LilyPond Software Design
-- Code for Music Notation
http://www.lilypond-design.com
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Re: lilypond ChangeLog Documentation/user/examples....
Quoting Graham Percival <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
-A number followed by a period is interpreted as a real number, so
-for setting the tempo for dotted notes, an extra space should be
-inserted, for example
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-\midi @{ \tempo 4 . = 120 @}
[EMAIL PROTECTED] example
Is this really the new way to do it?
\midi {
\context {
\Score
tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment 120 4)
}
}
I'm sure that there's some reason why "\tempo x = y" is a horrible
construct and must be replaced, but
\context {
\Score
tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment y x)
}
looks unnecessarily complicated. If that's the way it's going to be,
I'll document it, but... why this? Do we want to allow users to have
different tempo in different Staff contexts?
Apart from looking complicated, I find it directly confusing. If you
told me that the property name was "tempoWholesPerMinute", I would
intuitively expect the value to be a real number. Here it seems that we
(mis)use ly:make-moment to represent a rational number. Of course,
that's convenient as long as the beat isn't a dotted note, since you
can just set x as the
duration of the beat, but it still requires quite some amount of
thinking the first time you see it.
/Mats
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Re: lilypond ChangeLog Documentation/user/examples....
Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
-A number followed by a period is interpreted as a real number, so
-for setting the tempo for dotted notes, an extra space should be
-inserted, for example
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-\midi @{ \tempo 4 . = 120 @}
[EMAIL PROTECTED] example
Is this really the new way to do it?
\midi {
\context {
\Score
tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment 120 4)
}
}
I'm sure that there's some reason why "\tempo x = y" is a horrible
construct and must be replaced, but
\context {
\Score
tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment y x)
}
looks unnecessarily complicated. If that's the way it's going to be,
I'll document it, but... why this? Do we want to allow users to have
different tempo in different Staff contexts?
- Graham
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Re: lilypond ChangeLog Documentation/user/examples....
Quoting Han-Wen Nienhuys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Index: Documentation/user/examples.itely
===
RCS file: /cvsroot/lilypond/lilypond/Documentation/user/examples.itely,v
retrieving revision 1.64
retrieving revision 1.65
diff -u -b -r1.64 -r1.65
--- Documentation/user/examples.itely 10 Aug 2006 05:53:53 - 1.64
+++ Documentation/user/examples.itely 25 Aug 2006 12:00:10 - 1.65
@@ -39,7 +39,7 @@
\score {
\new Staff \melody
\layout { }
- \midi { \tempo 4=60 }
+ \midi o}
}
@end lilypond
I happened to notice that this looks like a typo!
I don't have easy access to CVS here, otherwise I would
have fixed it myself.
/Mats
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