svg output in windows

[Nate Lally]

Can anyone verify that svg output is supported on the windows binary?
It doesn't show up in the help cruft and using the command line switch
-bsvg or -fsvg doesn't do anything at all.
I tried on both stable and devel branches.

-- 
Nate


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Re: shortcut for creating new Staff "subclass" context?

[Dan Eble]

On 2009-09-09, at 08:59 , Kieren MacMillan wrote:


Hi Dan, Neil, et al.:


Does the following help?
SoloVoice is a kind of Voice. UpperVoice and LowerVoice are kinds  
of SoloVoice.


That's [relatively] self-evident. What isn't crystal clear — either  
in my mind, or (IMO) in the documentation — is why the following  
wouldn't work (or, perhaps better put, *what* wouldn't work if the  
following were used):



\context {
 \Voice
 \name SoloVoice
 %% \alias "Voice"
}

or alternatively

\context {
 %% \Voice
 \name SoloVoice
 \alias Voice
}


If I understand parser.yy and output-def.cc files, it looks like  
"\Voice" starts you off with a copy of the previously defined Voice  
settings.  If "\Voice" is absent, you start from scratch.


The context settings are saved by name.  If you do not change the  
name, the modified settings replace the previous settings of the  
\Voice context.  If you change the name, a new kind of context is  
created.


I haven't looked into \alias.
--
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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Kees van den Doel]

Don't forget to mention this publication where the Persian microtonal 
accidentals were introduced,
which are the only ones that are standardized (and still absent in lilypond):

Vaziri, A. N., Dastur-e Tàr, Tehran, 1913.

Kees
- Original Message -
From: Joseph Wakeling 

> I'm really pleased to see your work on this as right now I'm 
> working on
> extending the Lilypond docs' content on notating contemporary 
> music --
> one of the topics I'm about to start writing up is microtonal 
> notation.
> I'm not at all familiar with this notation or its logic or 
> history, so
> it would be great if you would consider either writing some
> documentation yourself or exchanging a few emails to help me 
> write up
> appropriate info on this.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
>     -- Joe
> 
> 
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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Robin Bannister]

Torsten Anders wrote: 
Now, there is only a minor flaw now: the distance between a note and  
the related accidentals is rather big. In fact, accidentals are more  
close to the preceding note than the note they belong to. 



I'm way out of my depth here, 
but it looks like markup is appending space to the glyphs of this font.

To see how far the markup actually extends, try doing 

 \override Accidental #'stencil = 
   #(lambda (grob) (box-stencil (ly:text-interface::print grob) 0 0))




And to see the effect more clearly, compare these two concats:

 \markupHE \markup \concat { \sans n \sans n } % HE font

 \markupHE \markup \concat { \natural \natural } % feta font



I can't help you with this font problem,   
but cheating on the X-extent improves things a bit:   



#(define (markup-X-extent markup) (lambda (grob)
  (interval-translate 
(ly:stencil-extent (grob-interpret-markup grob markup) X) 
-0.5)))




Cheers,
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Re: problems building documentation without compiling LilyPond

[Patrick Schmidt]

 Original-Nachricht 
> Datum: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:32:26 +0100
> Von: Graham Percival 
> An: Reinhold Kainhofer 
> CC: Patrick Schmidt , lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Betreff: Re: problems building documentation without compiling LilyPond

> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 07:06:13PM +0200, Reinhold Kainhofer wrote:
> > Am Donnerstag, 10. September 2009 18:27:04 schrieb Patrick Schmidt:
> > > I'm having problems to build documentation (without compiling
> LilyPond) on
> > > MacOS X 10.4.11. My www-out directory only contains the file
> dummy.dep. For
> > > error messages see attached file.
> > 
> > Also, "cp GNUmakefile.in GNUmakefile" will never work (that's like
> trying to 
> > execute a source file without compiling it)! GNUmakefile will be
> produced 
> > by autogen, if you have all the necessary applications installed...
> 
> Jan or Han-Wen said we could do this.  Unless something changed in
> the past year -- which it might have :(  -- it will work.  I spent
> at least three years doing that.
> 
> > Also, you might need to install pngtopnm:
> > 
> > sh: line 1: pngtopnm: command not found
> 
> Yes, this will be necessary.
> 
> 
> I'm wondering more about these lines that happened during "make -C
> python":
> 
> powerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: ERROR:: No such file or directory
> powerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: pkg-config: No such file or
> directory
> powerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: not: No such file or directory
> powerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: found: No such file or directory
> ...
> cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-fcflags"
> cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-fcflags"
> cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-fcflags"
> cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-fcflags"
> lipo: can't open input file: /var/tmp//ccjUksrx.out (No such file
> or directory)
> make: *** [out/midi.lo] Error 1
> 
> 
> if he can't build python stuff (namely lilypond-book), then he's
> hosed.
> 
> I could try to look at this in a day or two, but there's lots of
> other things I need to be doing in town and university.  (such as
> buying toilet paper.  Gee, these residences are cheap!  I figured
> they'd give me one roll so I didn't have to find a Tesco or
> Sainsburys or whatever on my very first day here...!)
:-) Good luck!
> 
> 
> For anybody who cares about the new website, especially getting it
> running on master, helping him fix (or just install the additional
> software) would be a good thing.  :)
> 
> Cheers,
> - Graham

I think the main problem is that there is something wrong with my installation 
of MacPort/Darwinport even though I got the message that it was successful. All 
my other problems seem to be related to this issue as the additional software 
needs darwinports to be installed.
When I type sudo port -d selfupdate I get the following errors:

DEBUG: Synchronizing ports tree(s)
Synchronizing local ports tree from rsync://rsync.macports.org/release/ports/
DEBUG: /usr/bin/rsync -rtzv --delete-after 
rsync://rsync.macports.org/release/ports/ 
/opt/local/var/macports/sources/rsync.macports.org/release/ports
dyld: lazy symbol binding failed: Symbol not found: _close$UNIX2003
  Referenced from: /opt/local/share/macports/Tcl/pextlib1.0/Pextlib.dylib
  Expected in: /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib

dyld: Symbol not found: _close$UNIX2003
  Referenced from: /opt/local/share/macports/Tcl/pextlib1.0/Pextlib.dylib
  Expected in: /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib

dyld: lazy symbol binding failed: Symbol not found: _close$UNIX2003
  Referenced from: /opt/local/share/macports/Tcl/pextlib1.0/Pextlib.dylib
  Expected in: /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib

dyld: Symbol not found: _close$UNIX2003
  Referenced from: /opt/local/share/macports/Tcl/pextlib1.0/Pextlib.dylib
  Expected in: /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib

Trace/BPT trap

When I type cd /opt/local/bin/portslocation/dports/fontconfig I get the 
message: No such file or directory.

I added export PATH=$PATH:/opt/local/bin to .bash_profile and created the 
directories portslocation and dports manually. Then I entered export 
PATH=$PATH:/opt/local/bin and got the same error messages as above.

Maybe this helps?!

Thanks for any hint,
patrick




-- 
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Re: problems building documentation without compiling LilyPond

[Reinhold Kainhofer]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Am Donnerstag, 10. September 2009 21:32:26 schrieb Graham Percival:
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 07:06:13PM +0200, Reinhold Kainhofer wrote:
> > Am Donnerstag, 10. September 2009 18:27:04 schrieb Patrick Schmidt:
> > > I'm having problems to build documentation (without compiling LilyPond)
> > > on MacOS X 10.4.11. My www-out directory only contains the file
> > > dummy.dep. For error messages see attached file.
> >
> > Also, "cp GNUmakefile.in GNUmakefile" will never work (that's like trying
> > to execute a source file without compiling it)! GNUmakefile will be
> > produced by autogen, if you have all the necessary applications
> > installed...
>
> Jan or Han-Wen said we could do this.  Unless something changed in
> the past year -- which it might have :(  -- it will work.  I spent
> at least three years doing that.

Okay, that's right, GNUmakefile.in does not contain any variables that will be 
replaced, so it should work.

> I'm wondering more about these lines that happened during "make -C
> python":
>
> powerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: ERROR:: No such file or directory
> powerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: pkg-config: No such file or
> directory
> powerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: not: No such file or directory
> powerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: found: No such file or directory

The autogen.sh script runs pkg-config on the various library names. However, 
pkg-config is not installed, either. The problem is that the string returned 
from the pkg-config call is stored into e.g. FREETYPE2_CFLAGS, 
PANGO_FT2_CFLAGS, etc. and then used in various calls


reinh...@einstein:~/lilypond/lilypond$ grep -e ERROR config.make
FREETYPE2_CFLAGS = ERROR: pkg-config not found --cflags freetype2 >= 2.1.10
PANGO_FT2_CFLAGS = ERROR: pkg-config not found --cflags pangoft2 >= 1.6.0
FONTCONFIG_LIBS = ERROR: pkg-config not found --libs fontconfig >= 2.2.0
FREETYPE2_LIBS = ERROR: pkg-config not found --libs freetype2 >= 2.1.10
PANGO_FT2_LIBS = ERROR: pkg-config not found --libs pangoft2 >= 1.6.0

If pkg-config is installed, it returns the appropriate flags and pathes, but in 
this case, things are simply terribly broken, since the build requirements are 
not available.


> if he can't build python stuff (namely lilypond-book), then he's
> hosed.

Apparently, he needs pkg-config installed...

Cheers,
Reinhold

- -- 
- --
Reinhold Kainhofer, reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
 * Financial & Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria
 * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886
 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

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03WcHKV0/HZUbzYtyuS56Eg=
=yssn
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Editing Process

[Jonathan Wilkes]

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Kieren MacMillan  wrote:

> From: Kieren MacMillan 
> Subject: Re: Editing Process
> To: "Jonathan Wilkes" 
> Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 9:04 PM
> Hi Jonathan,
> 
> > Any advice?
> 
> Look at
>   
> 
> 
> Both of the techniques shown there can be helpful in
> working with smaller sections of an existing piece.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> Kieren.
> 

Thanks, I overlooked Score.skipTypeSetting when I read this the first time.

-Jonathan





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Re: problems building documentation without compiling LilyPond

[Graham Percival]

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 07:06:13PM +0200, Reinhold Kainhofer wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 10. September 2009 18:27:04 schrieb Patrick Schmidt:
> > I'm having problems to build documentation (without compiling LilyPond) on
> > MacOS X 10.4.11. My www-out directory only contains the file dummy.dep. For
> > error messages see attached file.
> 
> Also, "cp GNUmakefile.in GNUmakefile" will never work (that's like trying to 
> execute a source file without compiling it)! GNUmakefile will be produced 
> by autogen, if you have all the necessary applications installed...

Jan or Han-Wen said we could do this.  Unless something changed in
the past year -- which it might have :(  -- it will work.  I spent
at least three years doing that.

> Also, you might need to install pngtopnm:
> 
> sh: line 1: pngtopnm: command not found

Yes, this will be necessary.


I'm wondering more about these lines that happened during "make -C
python":

powerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: ERROR:: No such file or directory
powerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: pkg-config: No such file or
directory
powerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: not: No such file or directory
powerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: found: No such file or directory
...
cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-fcflags"
cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-fcflags"
cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-fcflags"
cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-fcflags"
lipo: can't open input file: /var/tmp//ccjUksrx.out (No such file
or directory)
make: *** [out/midi.lo] Error 1


if he can't build python stuff (namely lilypond-book), then he's
hosed.

I could try to look at this in a day or two, but there's lots of
other things I need to be doing in town and university.  (such as
buying toilet paper.  Gee, these residences are cheap!  I figured
they'd give me one roll so I didn't have to find a Tesco or
Sainsburys or whatever on my very first day here...!)


For anybody who cares about the new website, especially getting it
running on master, helping him fix (or just install the additional
software) would be a good thing.  :)

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Editing Process

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Jonathan,


Any advice?


Look at
  


Both of the techniques shown there can be helpful in working with  
smaller sections of an existing piece.


Hope this helps!
Kieren.


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Editing Process

[Jonathan Wilkes]

Hello,
 I recently finished entering 14 pages of music for a piano part of a 
duet.
 Going through the score, I see about 100 errors that I want to fix.  
But now that I have the entire part entered, Lilypond takes about 40secs 
to compile.
 I probably should have asked this before I started: how do the 
Lilypond experts edit their work and fix mistakes?  Even if I only need 
to check results for 20% of those, that's about 15 minutes just for
compiling the score (and that's assuming I get all the property names and 
offsets right).
 Any advice?

Thanks,
Jonathan


  


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Re: help with jedit

[Jethro Van Thuyne]

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:16:40 -0400, Freeman Gilmore wrote:

> When I open jedit I get an I/O Error and a lot of boxes in the window.
> encoding "UTF-8"   another line says "UTF-8, Cp1252"
> 
> I guess I need lots of help with setup?
> 
> Thanks,
> fg

Hi Freeman,

Have you tried this link?   

  http://community.jedit.org/?q=forum

As this seems more of a jEdit than a Lilypond problem, you might get more 
specific help over there.

Jethro.



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test

[Freeman Gilmore]

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help with jedit

[Freeman Gilmore]

When I open jedit I get an I/O Error and a lot of boxes in the window. 
encoding "UTF-8"   another line says "UTF-8, Cp1252"


I guess I need lots of help with setup?

Thanks,
fg 




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Re: problems building documentation without compiling LilyPond

[Reinhold Kainhofer]

Am Donnerstag, 10. September 2009 18:27:04 schrieb Patrick Schmidt:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm having problems to build documentation (without compiling LilyPond) on
> MacOS X 10.4.11. My www-out directory only contains the file dummy.dep. For
> error messages see attached file.

You might also want to take a look yourself. For example the following error 
messages found in your file should give you a good hint what should be done:

WARNING: Please consider installing optional programs:  bison >= 1.29 
(installed: 1.28) guile
ERROR: Please install required programs:  echo no guile-config >= 1.8.0 
(installed: ) libguile (libguile-dev, guile-devel or guile-dev package). 
GUILE-with-rational-bugfix pkg-config
See INSTALL.txt for more information on how to build LilyPond


Also, "cp GNUmakefile.in GNUmakefile" will never work (that's like trying to 
execute a source file without compiling it)! GNUmakefile will be produced 
by autogen, if you have all the necessary applications installed...

Also, you might need to install pngtopnm:

sh: line 1: pngtopnm: command not found

Hope that helps,
Reinhold
-- 
--
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 * Financial & Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria
 * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886
 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org


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Re: RESOLVED letter size, paper height

[David Raleigh Arnold]

On Wed, 9 Sep 2009 12:02:28 -0400
David Raleigh Arnold  wrote:

> I am using the tarball 2.12.2 on a debian
> stable system.
> 
> I found that without paper-height, the page
> was too long as displayed by gv or xpdf.
> Is #(set-paper-size "letter") correct? If
> so, it doesn't work without stating the
> paper-height.  I think this is a bug in
> ghostscript, not lilypond, but it seems
> like an easy workaround.  Sorry if this
> has come up before.  Regards, daveA
> 
> 
> \paper {
>   #(set-paper-size "letter")
> % trim margin for a4 users
> % letter width is about 215 mm
> margin = 20\mm
> line-width = 175\mm
> % this should not be necessary (letter):
> paper-height = 279.4\mm
> }

Sorry, I could not reproduce the problem. The -V switch
output was right, and the pdfinfo was ok too.  I'll never
know what was wrong before.  I only changed the one line.
Thanks for looking.  I never thought that it was a
lilypond problem anyway.  Regards, daveA


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Re: irregular bar

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Stezano,


I need, for a 17th century piece, a bar that is constantly 2+2+2+3+3.
I would like to have "dashed" bar lines in the middle of each bar  
and a normal "|" at the bar end.

Is it possible to have it automatically?


Try something like

thebarlines = \repeat "unfold" 42 { s2*3 \bar "dashed" s3*2 \bar "|" }
themusic = \relative { ... }
\score { \new Staff << \themusic \thebarlines >> }

Hope this helps!
Kieren.


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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Hans Aberg]

On 10 Sep 2009, at 12:14, Torsten Anders wrote:

[...] I tend to think that ETs and Pythagorean tuning, quarter- 
comma meantone, and other diatonic pitch systems would be best  
notated by departing from them, and then adding intermediate pitch  
accidentals relative that.


A completely different notation approach might be more economic from  
a pure notation point of view (many have been proposed), but  
musicians including myself just had a life-long training in the  
existing notation. So, for those an extended form of the existing  
notation is more appealing than something that starts form scratch.


Perhaps you misunderstood: I do the same thing as you, only as in  
standard Western notation, not tying it to a particular tuning, at  
least not from the general point of view.


Strictly speaking, it depends on which music instrument you have.  
Mine is a 2-dimensional keyboard.


If your notation depends on your instrument then you devised  
actually a tabulature. They have their purposes of course, but being  
instrument specific they have their restrictions too. BTW: I can  
actually play HE notation on a Tonal Plexus (http://www.h-pi.com/TPX28intro.html 
), slowly, but I never practise :)


Is it touch (velocity) sensitive?

I use the layout:
  C#  D#  E#
C   D   E   F#  G#  A#  B#
  Cb  Db  Eb  F   G   A   B
Fb  Gb  Ab  Bb  C'
Then the playing and fingering patterns are the same in different  
keys. Transposition is by translation. (Contact me in private mail if  
you want to try it.)


But I do not know a good way to extend it to intermediate pitches.

  Hans




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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Hans Aberg]

On 10 Sep 2009, at 11:45, Torsten Anders wrote:

I understand you point about only 2 step sizes and your interested  
to extend the number of steps available. I assume this approach is  
particularly suitable for music that is primarily melodic (which is  
the case for Persian and Turkish), and if you disregard ornamental  
pitch inflections.


For music based on harmony, however, your point is not true. There  
are already more than two step sizes (e.g., 9:8 vs 10:9), even in  
conventional Western music (except for keyboards etc.). One  
application of Helmholtz-Ellis and Sagittal notation is to  
accurately notate the pitch inflections that occur in conventional  
Western music.


Just add as many neutrals as you want. Each one can typically cover  
another partial, and generates 4 intermediate pitch accidentals.


So for Just notation, one needs to add (in Pythagorean tuning) one  
neutral which is one syntonic comma below M. One description of  
Persian music is adding a double syntonic comma over m. In the first  
case, one will also add a symbol for the dual neutral, which is a  
syntonic comma over m.


So the notation for Persian music, tied to this description in this  
particular tuning, can be described by a double accidental in the Just  
notation. The reason one does not do that is that it has different  
musical function - in fact Persian music is not tied to a specific  
tuning, just as Western music notation isn't.


  Hans




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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Torsten Anders]

Dear Hans,

On 10.09.2009, at 10:13, Hans Aberg wrote:
[...] I tend to think that ETs and Pythagorean tuning, quarter-comma  
meantone, and other diatonic pitch systems would be best notated by  
departing from them, and then adding intermediate pitch accidentals  
relative that.


A completely different notation approach might be more economic from a  
pure notation point of view (many have been proposed), but musicians  
including myself just had a life-long training in the existing  
notation. So, for those an extended form of the existing notation is  
more appealing than something that starts form scratch.


Strictly speaking, it depends on which music instrument you have.  
Mine is a 2-dimensional keyboard.


If your notation depends on your instrument then you devised actually  
a tabulature. They have their purposes of course, but being instrument  
specific they have their restrictions too. BTW: I can actually play HE  
notation on a Tonal Plexus (http://www.h-pi.com/TPX28intro.html),  
slowly, but I never practise :)


Best
Torsten


On 10.09.2009, at 10:13, Hans Aberg wrote:


On 10 Sep 2009, at 10:57, Torsten Anders wrote:


On 10.09.2009, at 09:03, Hans Aberg wrote:
It seems to be that that staff indicates the Pythagorean tuning,  
with accidentals to indicate offsets relative that. Right?



This uniform structure of the Helmholtz-Ellis and Sagittal notation  
makes it possible to not only notate just intonation but also  
arbitrary equal temperaments (equal divisions of the octave) with  
them. The example below shows the pitches of 41-tone equal  
temperament with Helmholtz-Ellis notation. Note that other  
enharmonic pitches are possible, for example, Db and C#L (C#  
transposed down by a septimal comma) share the same 41-tone equal  
temperament pitch class (namely pitch class 3, the fourth note  
below).


Yes, but I tend to think that ETs and Pythagorean tuning, quarter- 
comma meantone, and other diatonic pitch systems would be best  
notated by departing from them, and then adding intermediate pitch  
accidentals relative that. Strictly speaking, it depends on which  
music instrument you have. Mine is a 2-dimensional keyboard. I  
figured it would take too much work learning new playing pattern for  
each tuning, especially in rapind movements, ornamentation, etc. I  
do not know of a good way to play intermediate pitches yet, though.


I think this way of notating should be possible with the system I  
described in my other mail.


 Hans





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irregular bar

[stefanozanobini]

I need, for a 17th century piece, a bar that is constantly 2+2+2+3+3.
I would like to have "dashed" bar lines in the middle of each bar and a
normal "|" at the bar end.
Is it possible to have it automatically?

Thanks
stezano
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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Torsten Anders]

Dear Hans,

I understand you point about only 2 step sizes and your interested to  
extend the number of steps available. I assume this approach is  
particularly suitable for music that is primarily melodic (which is  
the case for Persian and Turkish), and if you disregard ornamental  
pitch inflections.


For music based on harmony, however, your point is not true. There are  
already more than two step sizes (e.g., 9:8 vs 10:9), even in  
conventional Western music (except for keyboards etc.). One  
application of Helmholtz-Ellis and Sagittal notation is to accurately  
notate the pitch inflections that occur in conventional Western music.


Best
Torsten

On 10.09.2009, at 10:00, Hans Aberg wrote:

On 10 Sep 2009, at 10:26, Torsten Anders wrote:


It seems to be that that staff indicates the Pythagorean tuning,  
with accidentals to indicate offsets relative that. Right?


Exactly: nominals (c, d, e...) and the "common  
accientals" (natural, #, b, x, bb) denote a spiral of Pythagorean  
fifths. Other accidentals detune this Pythagorean by commas etc.  
Multiple comma-accidentals can be freely combined for notating  
arbitrary just intonation pitches. The Sagittal notation (http://users.bigpond.net.au/d.keenan/sagittal/ 
) follows exactly the same idea.


Yes, I thought so.

This is in contrast, for example, to the older just intonation  
notation by Ben Johnston (see David B. Doty (2002). The Just  
Intonation Primer. Just Intonation Network), where some intervals  
between nominals are Pythagorean (e.g., C G) and others are a just  
third etc (e.g., C E). Accidentals again denotes various comma  
shifts exactly. However, as the notation is less uniform music not  
notated in C is harder to read. I assume this experience led to the  
development of the Pythagorean-based approach of the  Helmholtz- 
Ellis and Sagittal notation.


The Sagittal notation allows for an even more fine-grained tuning  
(e.g., even comma fractions for adaptive just intonation), and also  
provides a single sign for each comma combination. However, I find  
the Helmholtz-Ellis notation more easy to read (signs differ more,  
less signs).


The Western musical notation system is limited to what I call a  
diatonic pitch system (as "extended meantone" suggest certain  
closeness to the major third).


For a major second M and minor second m, this is the system of  
pitches generated by p m + q M, where p, q are integers. The case  
(p, q) = (0,0) could be taken to be the tuning frequency. Sharps and  
flats alter with the interval M - m.


I have implemented it into ChuCK, so that it can easily be played in  
various tunings. The Pythagorean and quarter-comma meantone are of  
course special cases. But also others, like the Bohlen-Pierce scale  
in which the diapason is not the octave.


Now, inspired by Hormoz Farhat's thesis on Persian music, I extended  
it by adding neutral seconds. For each neutral seconds n between M &  
m, one needs accidentals to go from m to n, and from M to n. This  
suffices in Farhat's description of Persian music (sori and koron).  
For Turkish music, one needs the "dual" neutral n' := M - n; the  
reason is that different division of the perfect fourth leads to  
negative n coefficients. So then one needs to more accidentals to go  
from m to n', and from M to n'.


In this kind of music notation, one just tries to extend the  
Pythagorean tuning with 5-limit intervals. So one neutral n is  
sufficient in this description. For higher limits, one needs more  
neutrals, and for notation, a way to sort out preferred choice and  
order.


Now, one advantage of this model is that, like the Western notation  
system, one does not need to have explicit values for these symbols,  
though one can do so.


Basically just a FYI.

 Hans




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Re: Looking for meaning of no-gs-load-fonts

[Francisco Vila]

2009/9/10 Francisco Vila :
>  git grep no-gs-load-fonts
>
> gives no results apart from this page of Docs

Sorry. I've just realized that gs-load-fonts does appear in the
sources and this option is the same with a prefixed "no- "

-- 
Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain)
www.paconet.org
www.csmbadajoz.com


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Looking for meaning of no-gs-load-fonts

[Francisco Vila]

Hello. LM 3.6 Alternative methods of mixing text and music ->
Inserting LilyPond output into other programs
says

"To produce a useful ‘EPS’ file, use

lilypond -dbackend=eps -dno-gs-load-fonts -dinclude-eps-fonts   myfile.ly
"

I am trying to understand what -dno-gs-load-fonts does, and what's the
foundation of these options.  But for my surprise

  git grep no-gs-load-fonts

gives no results apart from this page of Docs, whereas a search for
"include-eps-fonts" does find occurrences in make/, scm/ and scripts/.

Is it an obsolete option?

-- 
Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain)
www.paconet.org
www.csmbadajoz.com


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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Hans Aberg]

On 10 Sep 2009, at 10:57, Torsten Anders wrote:


On 10.09.2009, at 09:03, Hans Aberg wrote:
It seems to be that that staff indicates the Pythagorean tuning,  
with accidentals to indicate offsets relative that. Right?



This uniform structure of the Helmholtz-Ellis and Sagittal notation  
makes it possible to not only notate just intonation but also  
arbitrary equal temperaments (equal divisions of the octave) with  
them. The example below shows the pitches of 41-tone equal  
temperament with Helmholtz-Ellis notation. Note that other  
enharmonic pitches are possible, for example, Db and C#L (C#  
transposed down by a septimal comma) share the same 41-tone equal  
temperament pitch class (namely pitch class 3, the fourth note below).


Yes, but I tend to think that ETs and Pythagorean tuning, quarter- 
comma meantone, and other diatonic pitch systems would be best notated  
by departing from them, and then adding intermediate pitch accidentals  
relative that. Strictly speaking, it depends on which music instrument  
you have. Mine is a 2-dimensional keyboard. I figured it would take  
too much work learning new playing pattern for each tuning, especially  
in rapind movements, ornamentation, etc. I do not know of a good way  
to play intermediate pitches yet, though.


I think this way of notating should be possible with the system I  
described in my other mail.


  Hans




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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Hans Aberg]

On 10 Sep 2009, at 10:26, Torsten Anders wrote:
[Your mail does not cc to the list - added: seems relevant.]


t is part of the font
distribution itself at

http://music.calarts.edu/~msabat/ms/pdfs/HE-font-2009.zip


I also found
http://www.newmusicbox.org/72/HelmholtzEllisLegend.pdf

It seems to be that that staff indicates the Pythagorean tuning,  
with accidentals to indicate offsets relative that. Right?


Exactly: nominals (c, d, e...) and the "common accientals" (natural,  
#, b, x, bb) denote a spiral of Pythagorean fifths. Other  
accidentals detune this Pythagorean by commas etc. Multiple comma- 
accidentals can be freely combined for notating arbitrary just  
intonation pitches. The Sagittal notation (http://users.bigpond.net.au/d.keenan/sagittal/ 
) follows exactly the same idea.


Yes, I thought so.

This is in contrast, for example, to the older just intonation  
notation by Ben Johnston (see David B. Doty (2002). The Just  
Intonation Primer. Just Intonation Network), where some intervals  
between nominals are Pythagorean (e.g., C G) and others are a just  
third etc (e.g., C E). Accidentals again denotes various comma  
shifts exactly. However, as the notation is less uniform music not  
notated in C is harder to read. I assume this experience led to the  
development of the Pythagorean-based approach of the  Helmholtz- 
Ellis and Sagittal notation.


The Sagittal notation allows for an even more fine-grained tuning  
(e.g., even comma fractions for adaptive just intonation), and also  
provides a single sign for each comma combination. However, I find  
the Helmholtz-Ellis notation more easy to read (signs differ more,  
less signs).


The Western musical notation system is limited to what I call a  
diatonic pitch system (as "extended meantone" suggest certain  
closeness to the major third).


For a major second M and minor second m, this is the system of pitches  
generated by p m + q M, where p, q are integers. The case (p, q) =  
(0,0) could be taken to be the tuning frequency. Sharps and flats  
alter with the interval M - m.


I have implemented it into ChuCK, so that it can easily be played in  
various tunings. The Pythagorean and quarter-comma meantone are of  
course special cases. But also others, like the Bohlen-Pierce scale in  
which the diapason is not the octave.


Now, inspired by Hormoz Farhat's thesis on Persian music, I extended  
it by adding neutral seconds. For each neutral seconds n between M &  
m, one needs accidentals to go from m to n, and from M to n. This  
suffices in Farhat's description of Persian music (sori and koron).  
For Turkish music, one needs the "dual" neutral n' := M - n; the  
reason is that different division of the perfect fourth leads to  
negative n coefficients. So then one needs to more accidentals to go  
from m to n', and from M to n'.


In this kind of music notation, one just tries to extend the  
Pythagorean tuning with 5-limit intervals. So one neutral n is  
sufficient in this description. For higher limits, one needs more  
neutrals, and for notation, a way to sort out preferred choice and  
order.


Now, one advantage of this model is that, like the Western notation  
system, one does not need to have explicit values for these symbols,  
though one can do so.


Basically just a FYI.

  Hans




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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Torsten Anders]

On 10.09.2009, at 09:03, Hans Aberg wrote:
It seems to be that that staff indicates the Pythagorean tuning,  
with accidentals to indicate offsets relative that. Right?



This uniform structure of the Helmholtz-Ellis and Sagittal notation  
makes it possible to not only notate just intonation but also  
arbitrary equal temperaments (equal divisions of the octave) with  
them. The example below shows the pitches of 41-tone equal temperament  
with Helmholtz-Ellis notation. Note that other enharmonic pitches are  
possible, for example, Db and C#L (C# transposed down by a septimal  
comma) share the same 41-tone equal temperament pitch class (namely  
pitch class 3, the fourth note below).


<>



BTW: this example also shows again the problem that the space between  
an accidental and its related note is larger than the space between  
the accidental and the previous note. Any idea how to fix that?


Thank you!

Best
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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Torsten Anders]

On 10.09.2009, at 09:03, Hans Aberg wrote:

On 10 Sep 2009, at 01:26, Torsten Anders wrote:


This notation is explain in detail in a paper that is part of the
font
distribution itself at

http://music.calarts.edu/~msabat/ms/pdfs/HE-font-2009.zip


I also found
http://www.newmusicbox.org/72/HelmholtzEllisLegend.pdf

It seems to be that that staff indicates the Pythagorean tuning,
with accidentals to indicate offsets relative that. Right?


Exactly: nominals (c, d, e...) and the "common accientals" (natural,
#, b, x, bb) denote a spiral of Pythagorean fifths. Other accidentals
detune this Pythagorean by commas etc. Multiple comma-accidentals can
be freely combined for notating arbitrary just intonation pitches. The
Sagittal notation (http://users.bigpond.net.au/d.keenan/sagittal/)
follows exactly the same idea.

This is in contrast, for example, to the older just intonation
notation by Ben Johnston (see David B. Doty (2002). The Just
Intonation Primer. Just Intonation Network), where some intervals
between nominals are Pythagorean (e.g., C G) and others are a just
third etc (e.g., C E). Accidentals again denotes various comma shifts
exactly. However, as the notation is less uniform music not notated in
C is harder to read. I assume this experience led to the development
of the Pythagorean-based approach of the  Helmholtz-Ellis and Sagittal
notation.

The Sagittal notation allows for an even more fine-grained tuning
(e.g., even comma fractions for adaptive just intonation), and also
provides a single sign for each comma combination. However, I find the
Helmholtz-Ellis notation more easy to read (signs differ more, less
signs).

Best
Torsten



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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Hans Aberg]

On 10 Sep 2009, at 01:26, Torsten Anders wrote:


This notation is explain in detail in a paper that is part of the font
distribution itself at

 http://music.calarts.edu/~msabat/ms/pdfs/HE-font-2009.zip


I also found
  http://www.newmusicbox.org/72/HelmholtzEllisLegend.pdf

It seems to be that that staff indicates the Pythagorean tuning, with  
accidentals to indicate offsets relative that. Right?


  Hans




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Re: RESOLVED letter size, paper height

[Mats Bengtsson]

David Raleigh Arnold wrote:

I am using the tarball 2.12.2 on a debian
stable system.

I found that without paper-height, the page
was too long as displayed by gv or xpdf.
Is #(set-paper-size "letter") correct? If
so, it doesn't work without stating the
paper-height.  I think this is a bug in
ghostscript, not lilypond, but it seems
like an easy workaround.  Sorry if this
has come up before.  Regards, daveA


\paper {
  #(set-paper-size "letter")
% trim margin for a4 users
% letter width is about 215 mm
margin = 20\mm
line-width = 175\mm
% this should not be necessary (letter):
paper-height = 279.4\mm
}
  
As Trevor has pointed out, this should definitely not be necessary. I 
just tried it myself using the 2.12.2 Linux package (not on Debian, but 
it shouldn't matter) and I get exactly the same page size for the PDF 
file both with and without the explicit paper-height setting). If you 
have pdfinfo installed (from the xpdf-utils Debian package), you can 
easily verify yourself that the file indeed is letter size:

...
Page size:  612 x 792 pts (letter)

You can also easily verify what LilyPond asks Ghostscript to do. If you 
run lilypond with the flag -V, you should see

...
Converting to `./myfile.pdf'...
Invoking `gs   -dSAFER  -dDEVICEWIDTHPOINTS=612.00 
-dDEVICEHEIGHTPOINTS=792.00 ...


/Mats


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Re: RESOLVED letter size, paper height

[Trevor Daniels]

David Raleigh Arnold wrote Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:02 PM


I found that without paper-height, the page
was too long as displayed by gv or xpdf.
Is #(set-paper-size "letter") correct? If
so, it doesn't work without stating the
paper-height.  I think this is a bug in
ghostscript, not lilypond, but it seems
like an easy workaround.  Sorry if this
has come up before.  Regards, daveA


The paper size for "letter" is set correctly
as 8.5 inches x 11.0 inches in scm/paper.scm, 
which converts to 215.9 mm x 279.4 mm, so the 
default should be the same as your override,

unless there is some conversion problem when
the paper size is specified in inches.  Is
your problem also resolved when you specify
paper-height in inches? 


Trevor



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