Re: how to underline or italic a single word in lyric?
Sorry but it's not in the v2.14 pdf manual. I looked there first - twice.
I looked there after you wrote- I just did a search for \italic in that
section and there's plenty of uses but none in lyric, a search for \markup
{\italic also came up with nothing- the snippet you provided me a link to
isn't in the pdf manual. I'm not arguing against your point, in fact, in
general I agree but if it's not there it can't be found.
Section 1.8.2 leads to the idea that maybe one can use markup in lyrics but
the section uses text in such a way as to suggest that lyrics and text are
different
Also the only time I have ever used markup is to make a markup i.e.
something outside the staff for performance and not inline like this is...
Nevertheless, problem solved and thank you again.
Jay
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Kieren MacMillan <
kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Hi Jay,
>
> > but it isn't anywhere in the manual that I can find
>
>
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.14/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-vocal-music
>
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.15/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-vocal-music
>
> > But we 'should' be able to use common words to find something like this.
> No?
>
> Yes… But as you know, there's only so much hand-holding the documentors
> can do: once they've indicated (a) that markup can be used in Lyrics and
> (b) how one applies underlines, italics, etc. to markups, I imagine there
> are much more important improvements to be made in the docs than linking
> those two concepts explicitly.
>
> Cheers,
> Kieren.
--
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Re: how to underline or italic a single word in lyric?
Hi Jay, > but it isn't anywhere in the manual that I can find http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.14/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-vocal-music http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.15/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-vocal-music > But we 'should' be able to use common words to find something like this. No? Yes… But as you know, there's only so much hand-holding the documentors can do: once they've indicated (a) that markup can be used in Lyrics and (b) how one applies underlines, italics, etc. to markups, I imagine there are much more important improvements to be made in the docs than linking those two concepts explicitly. Cheers, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: how to underline or italic a single word in lyric?
Hi Kieren- Yes that helps- but it isn't anywhere in the manual that I can find and even knowing what the snippet is called "Formatting lyrics syllables" doesn't produce a find and I had done a search through the pdf manual for underline and it showed different ways to use \underline but none of them for lyrics and none in a \markup like needed. So knowing what one wants but not having a way to locate it due to special words is a flaw in the documentation at least in this case. I know it's hard to work with (all the documentation work I did via Graham almost immediately disappeared). But we 'should' be able to use common words to find something like this. No? Anyway thanks again. Jay On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Kieren MacMillan < kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca> wrote: > > Hi- please direct me to.. > > I can't find how to underline a single word in the lyrics > > I'd settle for italic if that's the only possibility but I couldn't find > either in manual or repository. > > > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.15/Documentation/snippets/vocal-music#vocal-music-formatting-lyrics-syllables > > HTH, > Kieren. -- Jay Hamilton Sound and Silence www.soundand.com 206-328-7694 ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: how to underline or italic a single word in lyric?
> Hi- please direct me to.. > I can't find how to underline a single word in the lyrics > I'd settle for italic if that's the only possibility but I couldn't find > either in manual or repository. http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.15/Documentation/snippets/vocal-music#vocal-music-formatting-lyrics-syllables HTH, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
how to underline or italic a single word in lyric?
Hi- please direct me to.. I can't find how to underline a single word in the lyrics I'd settle for italic if that's the only possibility but I couldn't find either in manual or repository. using stable version thanks jay ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: [OT] was "Re: Appreciation / Financial support"
- Original Message - From: "Kieren MacMillan" To: "David Kastrup" > I don't think that the "last bugs" category can be > closed while Donald Knuth is alive In January 2009, I presented one of my mathematical papers at a conference in San Francisco. Much to my surprise, at one of the other sessions I attended (on the mathematics origami), Mr Knuth sat next to me. We struck up a small conversation, prompted by me telling him that I referenced his paper in the one I had just presented. Ultimately, I told him thanks — on behalf of everyone — for TeX. He seems like a wonderful man. Cheers, Kieren. I had a similar experience travelling to a conference in Washington. I was reading Simon Singh's book "The secret history of codes and code breaking" in my hotel room the evening before the conference, and had just got to the section on asymmetric key encryption. I was working hard to understand it, and admiring Diffie and Hellman's work. Something made me pick up the programme to see who was speaking the next day, and the first speaker was none other than Whit Diffie. I had a great "we are not worthy" experience then and next day when I met him. -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Layout of staff systems and text blocks
2012/5/31 Philip Thomas :
> Hi Harm,
>
> Once again you have been incredibly kind and helpful.
>
> Since writing to the forum yesterday, I had been experimenting with an added
> Dynamics context to act as a kind of "skyhook" for the Background Notes.
> That succeeded in placing the Notes beneath the lyrics OK, but it wrecked
> the horizontal spacing of the previous staff system.
>
> Your solution is much more elegant, and it worked immediately on my score,
> with a couple of adjustments, e.g. to center the footer, including page
> numbers, on pages 2 and 3. (I followed your suggestion as to changing your
> 'third-page' definition separately for each page, which would have been a
> little tedious if there had been 100 pages; sometime I will learn how to
> define the footer for 'every-other-page'!) Thank you so much, anyway!
Glad to hear that it is working for you.
I think there's no need for an 'every-other-page'-definition.
`third-page' was intended to address one specific page. All other
pages are not touched, regarding their output.
Nevertheless, I generalized (and renamed) it:
`which-page' can affect every specified page (of course it needs an
additional argument for the desired page-number). Syntax: e.g.
\on-the-fly #(which-page 3)
Multiple choices are possible.
I wasn't aware that you wanted the page-numbers in the footers. So I
simply added them.
>
> Two problems remain:
>
> First, the two systems on the last page are now jammed together too close,
> although visually there seems to be plenty of space available. Can you
> suggest what \paper setting I should look at to fix that? Vertical spacing
> issues are not the easiest to resolve, I have found. There are scads of
> properties and it isn't altogether clear how they all work, individually and
> in combination.
In my example-setup I used \vspace-commands several times. Did you
remove them or reduce their amount? I don't have the problem that the
systems are too close.
However, I added a system-system-spacing in \paper. You may want to
play around with the values.
>
> Second, can you suggest how to add a "segue" indication below the bass line
> lyrics? It would be placed at the end of, and below, the second system on
> page 3 -- i.e. above the Background Notes and to the right. It would seem to
> be more logical if it was anchored in the music or lyrics rather than as
> part of the footer.
Why not simply use a RehearsalMark? I defined `segue' separatly and
used it in `pagebreaks'
Some more alterations:
(1)
I added the `not-last-page'-definition.
(2)
There's no need to introduce new header-variables for
`backgroundNotes' and `pronunciationGuide'.
I deleted them and changed the footer-settings accordingly.
(3)
A \layout is added with
\override NonMusicalPaperColumn #'page-break-permission = ##f
to make sure that pageBreak occurs only at the specified points.
%%
\version "2.15.39"
#(define ((which-page nmbr) layout props arg)
(if (= (chain-assoc-get 'page:page-number props 0) nmbr)
(interpret-markup layout props arg)
empty-stencil))
#(define (not-last-page layout props arg)
(if (and (chain-assoc-get 'page:is-bookpart-last-page props #f)
(chain-assoc-get 'page:is-last-bookpart props #f))
empty-stencil
(interpret-markup layout props arg)))
textPlusTranslation =
\markup \column {
" " " " " "
"Some text and translation"
"Some text and translation"
"Some text and translation"
"Some text and translation"
"Some text and translation"
" " " " " "
}
backgroundNotes =
\markup \column {
\vspace #1
"Some Background Notes"
"Some Background Notes"
"Some Background Notes"
"Some Background Notes"
"Some Background Notes"
"Some Background Notes"
\vspace #1
}
pronunciationGuide =
\markup \column {
\vspace #1
"pronunciationGuide"
"pronunciationGuide"
"pronunciationGuide"
"pronunciationGuide"
"pronunciationGuide"
"pronunciationGuide"
\vspace #4
}
\header {
title = "TITLE"
subtitle = \textPlusTranslation
}
\paper {
system-system-spacing =
#'((basic-distance . 12)
(minimum-distance . 6)
(padding . 1)
(stretchability . 12))
ragged-bottom = ##f
ragged-last-bottom = ##f
ragged-last = ##f
oddHeaderMarkup = ##f
evenHeaderMarkup = ##f
oddFooterMarkup = \markup \fill-line {
\center-column {
\on-the-fly #(which-page 3)
\backgroundNotes
\on-the-fly #last-page
\pronunciationGuide
\on-the-fly #last-page
\fromproperty #'header:tagline
\on-the-fly #not-last-page
\on-the-fly #not-first-page
\fromproperty #'page:page-number-string
}
Re: [OT] was "Re: Appreciation / Financial support"
Hi David, >> He seems like a wonderful man. > Yup. The TeX version numbering alone is sufficient proof! > Hermann Zapf was also amazing. One of my heroes! K. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: besideCN seems to have stopped working
Gerry Prosser writes:
> Choan ... if you are scheme-illiterate, what does that make me ?
> Removing the dollars certainly seems to work - thank you! Hopefully
> someone cleverer than us will be along shortly to explain why .. G
Actually, I was not able to explain the _previous_ behavior
satisfactorily. If you take a look at the history of the "Extending
LilyPond" manual, you'll find that I rewrote the sections focused around
#{ ... #} repeatedly. At some point of having to explain the
three-or-whatever uses of $ inside of #{ ... #} I got annoyed to the
point of letting $ have just a single function, and that in- or outside
of #{ ... #} alike, and letting variables and expressions inside of
#{ ... #} work as a naive person would expect without throwing around
dollar signs in incomprehensible manners.
Check out the 2.14 manuals for an approximation of previous behavior.
If you feel like you understand the rationale behind it, you are a
cleverer person than I am. I preferred dumbing down LilyPond to a level
where I don't feel guilty when explaining it.
--
David Kastrup
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Re: musescore lands sponsoring?
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 10:20 AM, Urs Liska wrote: > We'll think about this (and some more, when I'm back and we're ready with our > current job ...). OK, Janek? ok ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: besideCN seems to have stopped working
Gerry Prosser writes: > David ... thanks, and yes indeed. And I run convert-ly on every new > score I create with denemo, so there really is no excuse for not > engaging brain on this occasion 8-) > > Thanks for all the gentle admonishments from around the community > . Well, it is a frequent question about an invasive change. And one argument in favor of going through with it was that convert-ly actually was able to convert a sizeable ratio of Scheme code automatically. Since I spent considerable time getting convert-ly to do an unprecedented amount of work, you can find me pointing to it frequently. With this particular syntax change, "remove everything that looks like a mistake" will tend to work as well, as someone else noted in a parallel answer, and that actually was the motivation for the change. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: [OT] was "Re: Appreciation / Financial support"
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hi all,
>
> Just a quick name-dropping reminiscence here… =)
>
>> I don't think that the "last bugs" category can be
>> closed while Donald Knuth is alive
>
> In January 2009, I presented one of my mathematical papers at a
> conference in San Francisco. Much to my surprise, at one of the other
> sessions I attended (on the mathematics origami), Mr Knuth sat next to
> me. We struck up a small conversation, prompted by me telling him that
> I referenced his paper in the one I had just presented. Ultimately, I
> told him thanks — on behalf of everyone — for TeX.
>
> He seems like a wonderful man.
Yup. On some TeX meeting, he and Hermann Zapf ("Palatino", "Zapf
Chancery") were telling anecdotes. He showed a slide of a
typographically awful traffic sign that caused him to change his drive
to work in order not to have to see it every day. He has a pipe organ
at home http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/organ.html>, so he
is not exactly a stranger to music. One does not really need to tell
all that much about his works. TeX has been a side-track, but one he is
known better for than his erudite groundwork for Computer Science (which
is what he needed TeX for).
Hermann Zapf was also amazing. He must have been eighty-five or
something at that time, and you had this frail frame talking about font
features and with a slight tremor all the time. And then he illustrates
some serif features and details by taking a piece of chalk and with few
swift strokes drawing perfectly shaped letters with the discussed
details and features.
--
David Kastrup
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Re: besideCN seems to have stopped working
David ... thanks, and yes indeed. And I run convert-ly on every new score I
create with denemo, so there really is no excuse for not engaging brain on
this occasion 8-)
Thanks for all the gentle admonishments from around the community .
G
On 31 May 2012 19:30, David Kastrup wrote:
> Gerry Prosser writes:
>
> > besideCN is used to display capo settings along with guitar chord
> > names, but with 2.15.39 I get error message 'Unbound variable:
> > $which-side'
> >
> > the last working score I have was compiled with 2.15.13
> >
> > besideCN = #(define-music-function (parser location which-side
> > added-text) (integer? string?) #{\once \override ChordNames.ChordName
> > #'stencil = #(lambda (grob) (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'text (markup
> > #:put-adjacent 0 $which-side ; #LEFT or #RIGHT
> > (ly:grob-property grob 'text) $added-text)) (ly:text-interface::print
> > grob)) #})
> >
> > Chords = \new ChordNames \chordmode {
> > \besideCN #LEFT "Capo1 " d1 fis2:m7 b2:m e1:m7 a
> > }
> >
> > any clues, anyone, please ?
>
> convert-ly -ed
>
> is used for upgrading the syntax of files written for an earlier version
> of LilyPond to the present.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>
>
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[OT] was "Re: Appreciation / Financial support"
Hi all, Just a quick name-dropping reminiscence here… =) > I don't think that the "last bugs" category can be > closed while Donald Knuth is alive In January 2009, I presented one of my mathematical papers at a conference in San Francisco. Much to my surprise, at one of the other sessions I attended (on the mathematics origami), Mr Knuth sat next to me. We struck up a small conversation, prompted by me telling him that I referenced his paper in the one I had just presented. Ultimately, I told him thanks — on behalf of everyone — for TeX. He seems like a wonderful man. Cheers, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: besideCN seems to have stopped working
Choan ... if you are scheme-illiterate, what does that make me ? Removing
the dollars certainly seems to work - thank you! Hopefully someone cleverer
than us will be along shortly to explain why .. G
On 31 May 2012 18:03, Choan Gálvez wrote:
> On 5/31/12 12:09 , Gerry Prosser wrote:
>
>> besideCN is used to display capo settings along with guitar chord names,
>> but with 2.15.39 I get error message 'Unbound variable: $which-side'
>>
>> the last working score I have was compiled with 2.15.13
>>
>> besideCN = #(define-music-function (parser location which-side
>> added-text) (integer? string?) #{\once \override ChordNames.ChordName
>> #'stencil = #(lambda (grob) (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'text (markup
>> #:put-adjacent 0 $which-side ; #LEFT or #RIGHT
>> (ly:grob-property grob 'text) $added-text)) (ly:text-interface::print
>> grob)) #})
>>
>> Chords = \new ChordNames \chordmode {
>> \besideCN #LEFT "Capo1 " d1 fis2:m7 b2:m e1:m7 a
>> }
>>
>> any clues, anyone, please ?
>>
>
> Removing the $ prefixes from both $which-side and $added-text worked for
> me. Actually, I'm not sure why it worked as I'm still an scheme illiterate.
>
> Best.
> --
> Choan Gálvez
>
> __**_
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>
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Re: besideCN seems to have stopped working
Gerry Prosser writes:
> besideCN is used to display capo settings along with guitar chord
> names, but with 2.15.39 I get error message 'Unbound variable:
> $which-side'
>
> the last working score I have was compiled with 2.15.13
>
> besideCN = #(define-music-function (parser location which-side
> added-text) (integer? string?) #{\once \override ChordNames.ChordName
> #'stencil = #(lambda (grob) (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'text (markup
> #:put-adjacent 0 $which-side ; #LEFT or #RIGHT
> (ly:grob-property grob 'text) $added-text)) (ly:text-interface::print
> grob)) #})
>
> Chords = \new ChordNames \chordmode {
> \besideCN #LEFT "Capo1 " d1 fis2:m7 b2:m e1:m7 a
> }
>
> any clues, anyone, please ?
convert-ly -ed
is used for upgrading the syntax of files written for an earlier version
of LilyPond to the present.
--
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Re: besideCN seems to have stopped working
Choan Gálvez writes:
> On 5/31/12 12:09 , Gerry Prosser wrote:
>
>> besideCN = #(define-music-function (parser location which-side
>> added-text) (integer? string?) #{\once \override ChordNames.ChordName
>> #'stencil = #(lambda (grob) (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'text (markup
>> #:put-adjacent 0 $which-side ; #LEFT or #RIGHT
>> (ly:grob-property grob 'text) $added-text)) (ly:text-interface::print
>> grob)) #})
>>
>> Chords = \new ChordNames \chordmode {
>>\besideCN #LEFT "Capo1 " d1 fis2:m7 b2:m e1:m7 a
>> }
>>
>> any clues, anyone, please ?
>
> Removing the $ prefixes from both $which-side and $added-text worked
> for me. Actually, I'm not sure why it worked as I'm still an scheme
> illiterate.
One could read in the documentation and/or run convert-ly. That you
guessed right without either while professing to be a scheme illiterate
(Scheme literacy would not actually helped since the earlier behavior of
$xxx inside of #{ ... #} had nothing to do with Scheme) is a bit of
endorsement for the change: its intent was to reduce the amount of clue
required for writing working code.
--
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Re: Appreciation / Financial support
Han-Wen Nienhuys writes: > On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 1:08 AM, David Kastrup wrote: >> Han-Wen Nienhuys writes: >> >>> As a consequence, GUILE is not only the language for writing >>> extensions, but it is the entire platform upon which LilyPond is built >>> internally too: almost every C++ data structure is manipulated and >>> passed on as a SCM variable as well, and there is little prospect of >>> ever being able to separate them. >>> >>> If I would re-do it, I would do so in a language where you can write >>> have the data be inside native classes, and automate generating >>> methods (setters, getters) and hooks (property callbacks), such that >>> the core program wouldn't need to be aware of the scripting language. >> >> You mean, use Goops? > > It would have to be compiled too, for type checking. Our property assignments are type checked at runtime. > It would have to be actively maintained too; this was another grave > error in choosing GUILE. At the current point of time, it is actively maintained. Over the total project history, this was not consistently the case. Hindsight is cheap. Personally, I feel that LilyPond is stronger tied down by C++ than by Scheme. The one thing that C++ has running for it is speed, and I am not really convinced that speed would really be affected all that awfully if the main control was exercised from Scheme rather than C++. I am currently working on the Goops angle with regard to contexts and properties. It should seriously open LilyPond to runtime/session extension, and one will have to see what the performance impact is. With the right choice of primitives, I don't think it should be all that bad. But it is pointless to discuss before trying. It is easier to agree over code than abstractly. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Appreciation / Financial support
Henning Hraban Ramm writes: > Am 2012-05-30 um 23:04 schrieb David Kastrup: > >> Henning Hraban Ramm writes: >> >>> Some lunatics ;-) spent a lot of effort re-implementing TeX in Java, >>> that was called "NTS" (new typsetting system); >> >> I would not call Karel Skoupy a lunatic. > > There’s a smiley. The LuaTeX team called itself lunatics > jokingly. (lua = moon ...) > >>> they stopped after implementing TeX compatibility (alias "OTS" = old >>> ts. system). I heard it was sluggish and ugly, but the team found the >>> last bugs in TeX >> Uh what? > > AFAIR, it was the NTS team that found the last official bug in > original TeX, involving some dotted line stuff. I blurrily remember a > talk on that event at some DANTE meeting. > But maybe it was yourself? Couldn’t find it on the internets. I was somewhat prominent on the last bug fixing run (2006 or something?). But I don't think that the "last bugs" category can be closed while Donald Knuth is alive (once he isn't, all remaining bugs are declared "features"). > See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Typesetting_System > > Maybe Taco wasn’t involved with NTS, but Hans was. (And since at least > the ConTeXt devs are very close, I can’t imagine that Taco didn’t > participate in NTS at all.) Well, it must have been a really long time since he bowed out. Don't remember him being active in that area, and I _do_ remember some project wrapup talks by Karel (I think that in order to do something more than just a TeX reimplementation, he had implemented par shapes that could deal with non-equally spaced lines). > I don’t claim accuracy in all details. ;-) Well, obviously I can only claim accuracy as far as my memory and "gut feeling" reaches. > It doesn’t really matter who did what when. I should write less and > debug more. Who are you telling that... -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Appreciation / Financial support
On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 1:18 AM, David Kastrup wrote: >>> You can't separate the two. Developers grow from users. Look at the >>> TeX/LaTeX and Emacs communities: how much of the changes happen in the >>> binary, how much in the interpretative layers? Where did most >>> developers get their first experiences and contact? >> >> Let me try to rephrase things: the more functionality is moved into >> the Scheme layers, the less people you can find who are capable of >> working on it. > > Among programmers who never heard of LilyPond and acquired their skills > independently. > > But the target audience of LilyPond is not programmers. It is > musicians. > >> Therefore, you should be careful with moving more and more code into >> the Scheme layer. > > Guess what: I've been programming computers since the seventies, and I > was a hardcore C++ programmers years before I started on LilyPond. I > had not worked with Scheme before LilyPond. guess what: I learned Scheme because of Lilypond too, but you and I are the exception. -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - han...@xs4all.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Appreciation / Financial support
On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 1:08 AM, David Kastrup wrote: > Han-Wen Nienhuys writes: > >> As a consequence, GUILE is not only the language for writing >> extensions, but it is the entire platform upon which LilyPond is built >> internally too: almost every C++ data structure is manipulated and >> passed on as a SCM variable as well, and there is little prospect of >> ever being able to separate them. >> >> If I would re-do it, I would do so in a language where you can write >> have the data be inside native classes, and automate generating >> methods (setters, getters) and hooks (property callbacks), such that >> the core program wouldn't need to be aware of the scripting language. > > You mean, use Goops? It would have to be compiled too, for type checking. It would have to be actively maintained too; this was another grave error in choosing GUILE. -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - han...@xs4all.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Appreciation / Financial support
Am 2012-05-30 um 23:04 schrieb David Kastrup: Henning Hraban Ramm writes: Some lunatics ;-) spent a lot of effort re-implementing TeX in Java, that was called "NTS" (new typsetting system); I would not call Karel Skoupy a lunatic. There’s a smiley. The LuaTeX team called itself lunatics jokingly. (lua = moon ...) they stopped after implementing TeX compatibility (alias "OTS" = old ts. system). I heard it was sluggish and ugly, but the team found the last bugs in TeX Uh what? AFAIR, it was the NTS team that found the last official bug in original TeX, involving some dotted line stuff. I blurrily remember a talk on that event at some DANTE meeting. But maybe it was yourself? Couldn’t find it on the internets. (Didn’t knew you was involved with TeX so deeply before I researched that just now; never saw you on TeX-D-L, but you seem to prefer Usenet.) and immediately started the development of LuaTeX, that’s still in development but already a big success. Uh what? LuaTeX was started by Taco Hoekwater (and Hans Hagen) who was neither involved with NTS nor with the Java version known as exTeX that is still under development. See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Typesetting_System Maybe Taco wasn’t involved with NTS, but Hans was. (And since at least the ConTeXt devs are very close, I can’t imagine that Taco didn’t participate in NTS at all.) I don’t claim accuracy in all details. ;-) It doesn’t really matter who did what when. I should write less and debug more. Greetlings, Hraban ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Appreciation / Financial support
On 30/05/2012, at 9:10 pm, David Kastrup wrote: > Lua with "separate statements with > semicolon or newline or space, I don't care" is nicer, but it is > procedural, not functional, And right there is an excellent reason to prefer it to Scheme. There are some people who really like functional programming, but for most people functional programming is arcane and confusing, and procedural far more natural. To tempt ordinary users to dip their toe into scripting, a procedural language is the way to go. Best wishes, Matthew -- Matthew Collettm_coll...@ihug.co.nz | m.coll...@auckland.ac.nz 8 Youngs Lane, Newmarket, Auckland 1050 | Physics Department, (09) 523 0290 Mobile: 021 072 0088 | University of Auckland http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~m_collett | (09) 373 7599 x88837 ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Appreciation / Financial support
On 31/05/2012, at 8:55 am, David Kastrup wrote:
> Having to cut an argument off in mid-sentence for being able to counter
> it does not exactly overwhelm.
I have always understood it to be good netiquette only to quote exactly what
one is replying to.
> #1 is a shallower dip than #{ return 1 #}.
Shorter, obviously. More elegant, I agree. But conceptually, more abstract
and therefore more difficult; 'deeper', in the sense a mathematician would use
the term.
Best wishes,
Matthew
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Re: besideCN seems to have stopped working
On 5/31/12 12:09 , Gerry Prosser wrote:
besideCN is used to display capo settings along with guitar chord names,
but with 2.15.39 I get error message 'Unbound variable: $which-side'
the last working score I have was compiled with 2.15.13
besideCN = #(define-music-function (parser location which-side
added-text) (integer? string?) #{\once \override ChordNames.ChordName
#'stencil = #(lambda (grob) (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'text (markup
#:put-adjacent 0 $which-side ; #LEFT or #RIGHT
(ly:grob-property grob 'text) $added-text)) (ly:text-interface::print
grob)) #})
Chords = \new ChordNames \chordmode {
\besideCN #LEFT "Capo1 " d1 fis2:m7 b2:m e1:m7 a
}
any clues, anyone, please ?
Removing the $ prefixes from both $which-side and $added-text worked for
me. Actually, I'm not sure why it worked as I'm still an scheme illiterate.
Best.
--
Choan Gálvez
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besideCN seems to have stopped working
besideCN is used to display capo settings along with guitar chord names,
but with 2.15.39 I get error message 'Unbound variable: $which-side'
the last working score I have was compiled with 2.15.13
besideCN = #(define-music-function (parser location which-side added-text)
(integer? string?) #{\once \override ChordNames.ChordName #'stencil =
#(lambda (grob) (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'text (markup #:put-adjacent 0
$which-side ; #LEFT or #RIGHT
(ly:grob-property grob 'text) $added-text)) (ly:text-interface::print
grob)) #})
Chords = \new ChordNames \chordmode {
\besideCN #LEFT "Capo1 " d1 fis2:m7 b2:m e1:m7 a
}
any clues, anyone, please ?
Gerry
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Re: how to enter notes quickly (midi keyboard available)
What do you think about talking out the score in lilypond style..so you wouldnt have to switch eyes between screen and sheet..for example..: c 8 f 16 c 4 . ( d 8 d d | and than a script to fix it: c8 f16 c4. ( d8 d d | but i think that voice recognition is not well suported on linux..i think you would only need to read it one time out loud.. On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Vaughan McAlley wrote: > On 26 May 2012 03:28, Klaus Föhl wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I like the lilypond notation using \relative being concise and readable. > > Entering on a computer keyboard is fairly quick, but still it feels > > that playing a melody line would be so much quicker. In particular > > if one does not have a typing c4 d e f g1 style but c4 d4. e8 f8. g16 c,1 > > > > What "better" methods exist? > > > > For example I have looked into rosegarden output. > > Minor issue:the output is not in relative notation. > > More cumbersome are slightly non-aligned notes to the beat > > (me being an imperfect human) and in particular varying > > note lengths introducing rests where the music and the audible sound > > both have none. > > > > I have seen techniques where the pitch is via piano keyboard > > and rhythm is via computer keyboard. I am not fully convinced. > > > > I have seen a custom-designed computer keyboard that combines > > pitch and duration. It might work well after a learning curve. > > > > What I am tempted is to take midi file information (i.e. gunzip a.rg), > > or the rosegarden ly output and reverse-engineer it into event lists. > > Whatever the detail: only piano-keyboard input and get both pitch and > > length. > > > > Then to apply some smart quantisation. For one thing notes like c1 > > are much more likely than c2... or alignment with bars is probable, > > aspects that require some adaptive rules, possibly some parameter > > training. > > Also the routine should pick up and follow the meter as played, > > as opposed to techniques providing the rigid mentronome frame. > > > > Well, before I reinvent the wheel myself: are such things already out > > there? > > > > Cheers > > Klaus > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > lilypond-user mailing list > > lilypond-user@gnu.org > > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user > > > > I have written a script that copies (and improves on) Finale's Simple > Note Entry. My left hand is on my MIDI keyboard, and almost everything > I want to do is on the numeric keypad. So I hold down a note or chord > on the keyboard, and press 4 (crochet), and something like g4 will be > virtually typed. Because I mostly enter renaissance music, most things > I want to type (in normal circumstances) are available on the numeric > keypad. The other advantage is that I hear the pitches as they are > entered, and the script takes care of note names and octaves. > > The downside is that I wrote it for Mac using CoreMIDI and Cocoa, as I > had a little knowledge in this area. I've tried to make the main > script platform-agnostic, in that input is a MIDI packet or keystroke, > and output is the same MIDI packet (for MIDI thru), and virtual > keystrokes if appropriate. I still have to 'manually' translate ASCII > codes into Mac keyboard strokes as I can't work out how to do this in > Cocoa. > > I briefly investigated making it more portable, but didn't want to go > through the pain of working out how to process MIDI and keystrokes > again. My script is in Lua, and contains all the logic for converting > MIDI to \relative. If anyone is interested, there is an XCode project > here: > > https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0YNwfxb13ZcWmY0Uy12T3ctVW8 > > The script is in /LuaScripts > > It runs on my Intel iMac with Snow Leopard, don't about any other OSs. > If anyone is interested and knows about portable keystrokes and MIDI, > I would be happy to discuss adapting the script for them. > > Vaughan > > ___ > lilypond-user mailing list > lilypond-user@gnu.org > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user > -- *Nesmotren govori kao da mačem probada, a jezik je mudrih iscjeljenje. Izreke 12:18* ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: position of footer
Kai-48 wrote:
>
>
> being on the list for only a few days has given me so many new ideas and
> input for improving my scores, that I like to send out my thanks for that
> first!!!
>
welcome!
> Now to my latest question: I tweaked the footers in my files with:
>
> In the PDF the footer on the last page is positioned - as I know it -
> close to the bottom of the paper. But the footers on the other pages ist
> positioned relative to the lowest system on that page. That usually makes
> it appear higher on the page, than on last pages. Does anyone have an
> idea, why that is this way and - even better - how I can fix it. Fixing
> means making the footer relative to the bottom of the paper on all pages.
>
I think you are filling the columns with empty lines - better (and easier)
would be to define a markup item for each case you have (middle pages and
last page):
oddFooterMarkup = \markup
\fill-line {
%% Fuß alle Seiten außer erste und letzte
\on-the-fly #not-last-page
\on-the-fly #not-first-page
\center-column {
\line { \vspace #2 \override #'(span-factor . 2/3) \draw-hline }
\line { \fromproperty #'header:hinweis }
\line { \fromproperty #'page:page-number-string }
}
%% Fuß letzte Seite
\on-the-fly #last-page
\center-column {
\line { \vspace #2 \override #'(span-factor . 2/3) \draw-hline }
\line { \fromproperty #'header:hinweis }
\line { \fromproperty #'header:tagline }
\line { \fromproperty #'page:page-number-string }
}
}
of course this can be optimized depending on the logic and actions you
apply.
hth
Eluze
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View this message in context:
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position of footer
Dear list,
being on the list for only a few days has given me so many new ideas and input
for improving my scores, that I like to send out my thanks for that first!!!
Now to my latest question: I tweaked the footers in my files with:
%% Einführung der Variable not-last-page
#(define (not-last-page layout props arg)
(if (and (chain-assoc-get 'page:is-bookpart-last-page props #f)
(chain-assoc-get 'page:is-last-bookpart props #f))
empty-stencil
(interpret-markup layout props arg)))
%% Einführung der Variable first-page
#(define (first-page layout props arg)
(if (= (chain-assoc-get 'page:page-number props 0) 1)
(interpret-markup layout props arg)
empty-stencil))
in the \paper block and
oddHeaderMarkup = \markup \fill-line { \center-column {
\on-the-fly #first-page \rounded-box
\on-the-fly #first-page \pad-markup #0.3
\on-the-fly #first-page \fromproperty #'header:tonart } }
evenHeaderMarkup = \markup \fill-line { " " }
oddFooterMarkup = \markup \fill-line { \center-column {
%% Fuß alle Seiten außer erste und letzte
\line { \on-the-fly #not-last-page \on-the-fly #not-first-page \vspace
#2 \on-the-fly #not-last-page \on-the-fly #not-first-page \override
#'(span-factor . 2/3) \draw-hline }
\line { \on-the-fly #not-last-page \on-the-fly #not-first-page
\fromproperty #'header:hinweis }
\line { \on-the-fly #not-last-page \on-the-fly #not-first-page
\fromproperty #'page:page-number-string }
%% Fuß letzte Seite
\line { \on-the-fly #last-page \vspace #2 \on-the-fly #last-page
\override #'(span-factor . 2/3) \draw-hline }
\line { \on-the-fly #last-page \fromproperty #'header:hinweis }
\line { \on-the-fly #last-page \fromproperty #'header:tagline }
\line { \on-the-fly #last-page \fromproperty #'page:page-number-string }
}
}
in the \header with header:tonart and header:hinweis being defined variables
elsewhere in the header-block
In the PDF the footer on the last page is positioned - as I know it - close to
the bottom of the paper. But the footers on the other pages ist positioned
relative to the lowest system on that page. That usually makes it appear higher
on the page, than on last pages. Does anyone have an idea, why that is this way
and - even better - how I can fix it. Fixing means making the footer relative
to the bottom of the paper on all pages.
\version 2.15.39
Thanks so much.
best regards
Kai
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Re: Lyrics hyphens - which glyph?
>From: Marek Klein [mailto:ma...@gregoriana.sk] > >> Hello, > >>> 2012/5/31 Philip Thomas Can anyone tell me >>> which glyph is used for (automatically inserted) lyrics hyphens? They >>> seem, to my eye, to be wider and lower-placed than ordinary text >>> hyphens. I would like to add them manually in certain circumstances >>> and I want them to match. > >> I found this in archive: >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2012-02/msg00816.html >> By Knut Petersen: > >> Well, lilypond never uses the dash glyph for hyphenation of lyrics. >> Instead of a hyphen it puts a /draw_round_box into the output >> postscript code. > >> I used "\override LyricHyphen #'stencil = #ly:text-interface::print" >> to tell lilypond to really generate a hyphen glyph instead of a >> centered round_box, but that hyphen will be printed at the start of >> the preceding syllable and thus needs a manual x-offset override if >> nobody knows a better way to handle the problem;-( > >> HTH >> Marek > >From: Philip Thomas [mailto:philip.tho...@bluewin.ch] > >Thanks tons, Marek. > >Not as simple as I'd hoped, but it's good to have an answer -- and >amazingly quickly, at that. So it will be a matter for experimentation >and/or compromise, it seems. My apologies for failing to find the answer >myself on the forum. > >All the best, Philip Sorry, Marek -- it's me again. I'm really a novice, and it's time for confession: I don't know how to use the code "\override LyricHyphen #'stencil = #ly:text-interface::print" to actually produce a glyph in the compiled score. My reading and experimentation didn't get me anywhere on the point. I want to produce a hyphen manually which is in fact identical in appearance to a lyrics hyphen. It seems that I'm not quite ready for compromise, after all. :) If anyone can enlighten me, I'd be very grateful. Cheers, Philip ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics hyphens - which glyph?
From: Marek Klein [mailto:ma...@gregoriana.sk] Sent: Thursday 31 May 2012 13:08 To: Philip Thomas Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org Subject: Re: Lyrics hyphens - which glyph? > Hello, >> 2012/5/31 Philip Thomas >> Can anyone tell me which glyph is used for (automatically inserted) lyrics >> hyphens? They seem, to my eye, to be wider and lower-placed than ordinary >> text hyphens. I would like to add them manually in certain circumstances and >> I want them to match. > I found this in archive: > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2012-02/msg00816.html > By Knut Petersen: > Well, lilypond never uses the dash glyph for hyphenation of lyrics. > Instead of a hyphen it puts a /draw_round_box into the output postscript > code. > I used "\override LyricHyphen #'stencil = #ly:text-interface::print" to > tell lilypond to really generate a hyphen glyph instead of a centered > round_box, but that hyphen will be printed at the start of the preceding > syllable and thus needs a manual x-offset override if nobody knows > a better way to handle the problem;-( > HTH > Marek Thanks tons, Marek. Not as simple as I'd hoped, but it's good to have an answer -- and amazingly quickly, at that. So it will be a matter for experimentation and/or compromise, it seems. My apologies for failing to find the answer myself on the forum. All the best, Philip ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Lyrics hyphens - which glyph?
>-Original Message- >From: Philip Thomas [mailto:philip.tho...@bluewin.ch] >Sent: Thursday 31 May 2012 12:53 >To: 'lilypond-user@gnu.org' >Subject: Lyrics hyphens - which glyph? > >Can anyone tell me which glyph is used for (automatically inserted) lyrics >hyphens? They seem, to my eye, to be wider and lower-placed than ordinary >text hyphens. I would like to add them manually in certain circumstances >and I want them to match. > >Cheers, Philip Correction: Sorry -- I should have said that the lyrics hyphens appear to be wider and higher than ordinary text hyphens, and wider and lower than the feta hyphen glyph (both of which I experimented with). Cheers, Philip ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lyrics hyphens - which glyph?
Hello, 2012/5/31 Philip Thomas > Can anyone tell me which glyph is used for (automatically inserted) lyrics > hyphens? They seem, to my eye, to be wider and lower-placed than ordinary > text hyphens. I would like to add them manually in certain circumstances > and > I want them to match. > > I found this in archive: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2012-02/msg00816.html By Knut Petersen: Well, lilypond never uses the dash glyph for hyphenation of lyrics. > Instead of a hyphen it puts a /draw_round_box into the output postscript > code. > > I used "\override LyricHyphen #'stencil = #ly:text-interface::print" to > tell lilypond to really generate a hyphen glyph instead of a centered > round_box, but that hyphen will be printed at the start of the preceding > syllable and thus needs a manual x-offset override if nobody knows > a better way to handle the problem;-( HTH Marek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Lyrics hyphens - which glyph?
Can anyone tell me which glyph is used for (automatically inserted) lyrics hyphens? They seem, to my eye, to be wider and lower-placed than ordinary text hyphens. I would like to add them manually in certain circumstances and I want them to match. Cheers, Philip ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Layout of staff systems and text blocks
>>2012/5/30 Philip Thomas : >>(...) >> The problem: How do I get the Background Notes to sit happily where I >> want them on page 3? >>(...) > >From: Thomas Morley [mailto:thomasmorle...@googlemail.com] >Sent: Wednesday 30 May 2012 23:40 > >Hi Philip, > >how about this setup? >It adds the "Background Notes" to the footer of page three. > >(...) > >The definition of 'third-page' could be changed to other page-numbers >quite easily. > >HTH, > Harm Hi Harm, Once again you have been incredibly kind and helpful. Since writing to the forum yesterday, I had been experimenting with an added Dynamics context to act as a kind of "skyhook" for the Background Notes. That succeeded in placing the Notes beneath the lyrics OK, but it wrecked the horizontal spacing of the previous staff system. Your solution is much more elegant, and it worked immediately on my score, with a couple of adjustments, e.g. to center the footer, including page numbers, on pages 2 and 3. (I followed your suggestion as to changing your 'third-page' definition separately for each page, which would have been a little tedious if there had been 100 pages; sometime I will learn how to define the footer for 'every-other-page'!) Thank you so much, anyway! Two problems remain: First, the two systems on the last page are now jammed together too close, although visually there seems to be plenty of space available. Can you suggest what \paper setting I should look at to fix that? Vertical spacing issues are not the easiest to resolve, I have found. There are scads of properties and it isn't altogether clear how they all work, individually and in combination. Second, can you suggest how to add a "segue" indication below the bass line lyrics? It would be placed at the end of, and below, the second system on page 3 -- i.e. above the Background Notes and to the right. It would seem to be more logical if it was anchored in the music or lyrics rather than as part of the footer. Thanks tons, Philip ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: suppress warnings
On 05/31/2012 12:17 PM, David Kastrup wrote:
Eluze writes:
Am 31.05.2012 11:19, schrieb Peter O'Doherty:
I could make a fake second voice in the second measure here which I
could hide using "s" but the stem direction would have to be
manually adjusted too. This seems like a lot of extra work just to
avoid a warning.
(Unless there is a better way I'm not seeing.)
Best wishes,
Peter
what's wrong with this code - I don't get any warnings!
{ \clef bass
<<
{ g4 fis8( g) a4 g }
\\
{ d4 \sustainOn d d d }
|
a,4 b,\sustainOff c d |
}
do I miss something?
Don't see why. The Piano_pedal_engraver works at Staff level by
default. Voice switches should not faze it.
Okay, I'll take another good look at the score. Perhaps I'm missing
other factors which are causing this, although it always occurs at
across voice switches.
Thanks,
Peter
--
//=
-> Peter O'Doherty
-> http://www.peterodoherty.net
-> m...@peterodoherty.net
-> https://joindiaspora.com/people/70716
//=
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Re: suppress warnings
Eluze writes:
> Am 31.05.2012 11:19, schrieb Peter O'Doherty:
>>
>> I could make a fake second voice in the second measure here which I
>> could hide using "s" but the stem direction would have to be
>> manually adjusted too. This seems like a lot of extra work just to
>> avoid a warning.
>>
>> (Unless there is a better way I'm not seeing.)
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Peter
>>
> what's wrong with this code - I don't get any warnings!
>
> { \clef bass
> <<
> { g4 fis8( g) a4 g }
> \\
> { d4 \sustainOn d d d }
>>>
> |
> a,4 b,\sustainOff c d |
> }
>
> do I miss something?
Don't see why. The Piano_pedal_engraver works at Staff level by
default. Voice switches should not faze it.
--
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Re: suppress warnings
Am 31.05.2012 11:19, schrieb Peter O'Doherty:
I could make a fake second voice in the second measure here which I
could hide using "s" but the stem direction would have to be manually
adjusted too. This seems like a lot of extra work just to avoid a
warning.
(Unless there is a better way I'm not seeing.)
Best wishes,
Peter
what's wrong with this code - I don't get any warnings!
{ \clef bass
<<
{ g4 fis8( g) a4 g }
\\
{ d4 \sustainOn d d d }
>>
|
a,4 b,\sustainOff c d |
}
do I miss something?
cheers
Eluze
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Re: suppress warnings
On 05/29/2012 04:22 PM, Reinhold Kainhofer wrote:
The real issue is: Why is that warning supposed to be there in the first
place? Shouldn't you be looking for a way to fix the underlying problem
instead?
Cheers,
Reinhold
Good point. The situation is this: the \sustainOn command is often
included in a 2-voice texture but the allied command \sustainOff in a
1-voice measure or vice-versa (simple example below). The pedal marking
is generally correctly printed but lilypond complains (warning: cannot
find start of piano pedal: 'Sustain' ).
<< { g4 fis8( g) a4 g }\\ { d4\sustainOn d d d }>> |
a,4 b,\sustainOff c d |
I could make a fake second voice in the second measure here which I
could hide using "s" but the stem direction would have to be manually
adjusted too. This seems like a lot of extra work just to avoid a warning.
(Unless there is a better way I'm not seeing.)
Best wishes,
Peter
--
//=
-> Peter O'Doherty
-> http://www.peterodoherty.net
-> m...@peterodoherty.net
-> https://joindiaspora.com/people/70716
//=
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Re: musescore lands sponsoring?
We'll think about this (and some more, when I'm back and we're ready with our current job ...). OK, Janek? Best Urs "Janek Warchoł" schrieb: >On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 5:31 PM, David Kastrup wrote: >> There are also a few advantages [of using MuseScore]: >> >> a) MusicXML export means the results are usable in a variety of >notation >> programs making use of an open standard. > >Indeed, having MusicXML exprort can give Lily more popularity. > >> b) volunteers can be given a complete toolchain. "You can use an >editor >> of your choice" is about as helpful for the average musician as >"You >> can use a lathe of your choice". > >LOL :D >how true! Valentin, that could be the next quote of the month :) > >> d) "I am well-versed in LilyPond. What form do you want the entry >in? >> Can I use music functions? What note language should I be using? >> Should the voicing be reflected in ad-hoc voices? Should I be >using >> anonymous parallel voices? What kind of context mods should I be >> using?" "Uh, we better form a committee for that kind of >question." > >Good point. > >That's why our KickStarter project (at least the first one) should be >a not-very-long piece for chamber orchestra. Or string quartet. >Something with 3-6 staves and 5-15 pages. > >cheers, >Janek > >PS there actually is one serious advantage of text input in a project >like this: we could set up a git repository for it. > >___ >lilypond-user mailing list >lilypond-user@gnu.org >https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit K-9 Mail gesendet. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Appreciation / Financial support
Matthew Collett writes:
> On 31/05/2012, at 8:55 am, David Kastrup wrote:
>
>> Having to cut an argument off in mid-sentence for being able to counter
>> it does not exactly overwhelm.
>
> I have always understood it to be good netiquette only to quote
> exactly what one is replying to.
The point of trimming the original is to remove parts _irrelevant_ to
your reply, not those that would have been _relevant_.
>> #1 is a shallower dip than #{ return 1 #}.
>
> Shorter, obviously. More elegant, I agree. But conceptually, more
> abstract and therefore more difficult; 'deeper', in the sense a
> mathematician would use the term.
Would you say that nouns are more abstract than verbs, and therefore
more difficult?
--
David Kastrup
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