Re: problems trying to write a conditional \transpose
Mark Polesky writes:
> I'm trying to write a conditional version of the \transpose
> function, that would work something like this:
>
> input = {
> c c
> \conditionalTransposition c c' { c c }
> }
>
> \input
> => { c c c c }
>
> \processConditionalTransposition \input
> => { c c c' c' }
conditionalTransposition =
#(define-music-function (parser location from to music)
(ly:pitch? ly:pitch? ly:music?)
(set! music #{ \transpose c' c' #music #})
(set! (ly:music-property 'from-to music) (cons from to))
music)
processConditionalTransposition =
#(define-music-function (parser location music) (ly:music?)
(map-some-music
(lambda (m)
(and (music-is-of-type? m 'transposed-music)
(pair? (ly:music-property m 'from-to music))
#{ \transpose #(car (ly:music-property m 'from-to-music))
#(cdr (ly:music-property m 'from-to-music))
#(ly:music-property m 'element)
#}))
music))
This is assuming that you don't nest processConditionalTransposition, if
you do, you need to write
\processConditionalTransposition #(ly:music-property m 'element) at the
appropriate place.
Untested.
--
David Kastrup
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Henle piano template
Kieren MacMillan writes: > Hi Urs (et al.), > >> I'm probably biased but I find the appearance of the 'old' score > infinitely superior. > > Immediately, one notices [in the newer version] what a poor choice it > is to have the triplet number (over the middle of the triplet) above, > as it is easily confused with the fingering number immediately to its > right. > >>> in general, we are more interested in the inspiration by state of >>> the art plate engraving rather than state of the art computer engraving, >>> since LilyPond wants to be a frontrunner in computer engraving. > > Agreed — I will always be aiming for that with these stylesheets. Well, that's a bit like making a Bauhaus impression by picking the right tapestry: the main responsibility lies with the placement and spacing algorithms, and the stylesheets then have to combine with them into a coherent whole with a consistent look that avoids making the algorithms fall apart. So the stylesheets are sort of coevolving with the algorithms responsible for the _work_ part of our look. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
problems trying to write a conditional \transpose
Hi.
I'm trying to write a conditional version of the \transpose
function, that would work something like this:
input = {
c c
\conditionalTransposition c c' { c c }
}
\input
=> { c c c c }
\processConditionalTransposition \input
=> { c c c' c' }
And I've hit another brick wall. I experimented with some
of the functions in music-functions.scm (map-some-music,
fold-some-music, etc.), but those hard-to-follow function
descriptions slowed me down again. I've included some vain
attempts below, which are clearly wrong...
Any advice?
Thanks
- Mark
conditionalTranspose =
#(define-music-function
(parser location from to music)
(ly:pitch? ly:pitch? ly:music?)
(set! music
(make-sequential-music
(list (make-music
'Music
'type 'conditional-transposition
'from from
'to to)
music)))
music)
#(define conditional-transposition?
(lambda (music)
(eq? (ly:music-property music 'type) 'conditional-transposition)))
#(define sequential-music?
(lambda (music)
(music-is-of-type? music 'sequential-music)))
processConditionalTransposition =
#(define-music-function
(parser location music)
(ly:music?)
(let ((music-list (extract-typed-music music '(general-music
(if (list? music-list)
(for-each (lambda (a b)
(if (and (conditional-transposition? a)
(sequential-music? b))
(ly:music-transpose b ...)))
music-list
(cdr music-list)))
music))
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Maybe bug? Lyrics on a tied note at end of system
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:55 PM, David Rogers wrote: > Carl Peterson writes: > > > I'm curious...did you happen to notice any examples where the engraver > > chose to split the measure that might be indicative of an approach? If > > I were to have done something like this for a hymnal/songbook, I would > > have split the measure and would have kept the entire lyrical phrase > > on a single system. > > I haven't found any examples with ties exactly as we've been > discussing. It seems styles or opinions have changed over time or varied > between publishers. For a good possible example, I turned to the old > Peters score of Schubert's Ständchen (Horch, horch, die Lerch') - nearly > every line of text begins with an upbeat - and the engraver kept each > bar intact. In the same volume, the beginning of Das Wandern (first song > of Die schöne Müllerin) has the piano introduction and the single word > "Das" on the first line, and the end of the last page has (looking a bit > lonely) the first word of the next verse and a segno. However, in the > 1988 Baerenreiter/Henle set of Schubert songs, vol 7, the engraver seems > quite willing to break bars in exactly the way I think you mean - for > example, in "Irdisches Glück" the piano introduction finishes on beat > three-and-a-half, and the singer's eighth note is on the next line, > where you and I both know it belongs. :) In the same vein, the middle of > the verse of that song has a new theme that starts on beat > two-and-three-quarters, and the page break is comfortably set at that > point in the bar. But then only a few pages further on in the book, in > Am Fenster, a similar thing might have been done but was not done - > there are "widowed" eighth notes on several lines. It seems to me that > breaking bars in vocal music has never been consistently practiced by > any good publisher except for the publishers of well-made hymn books, > who seem to have done it as a matter of course. If they ARE being > consistent, then they must have run into more important reasons why NOT > to break the bars, in those other songs; and I don't know what those > reasons are. My understanding of the engraving process and its rules is > sketchy at best. > > Actually, it's not uncommon for hymnal publishers NOT to give due consideration to the lyrics, well-made or not. I'm looking at one right now where the upbeat of a phrase is kept with the measure. I think the only relatively-consistent rule is not to break a word across two lines unless there's no way to avoid it (and I happened to turn right to a song that proved me wrong, imagine that). There was a hymnal published last year that *did* prioritize lyrics over music, to the point where it did a "quantized" version of LP's ragged-right for shorter lines (so that the lyric spacing doesn't become extreme). By quantized, I mean that there were about three or four system-widths that were used, depending on the natural spacing of the line (number of syllables). I've given examples from that book in previous posts. Of the hymnals I've seen, I consider it perhaps one of the best examples of setting, even above engraved hymnals (which often squeezed notes and lyrics in much tighter than they should have in order to save paper...not uncommon to be lucky just to get all the words on the same line as the notes, and forget about getting the words under the sung note). ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Maybe bug? Lyrics on a tied note at end of system
Carl Peterson writes: > I'm curious...did you happen to notice any examples where the engraver > chose to split the measure that might be indicative of an approach? If > I were to have done something like this for a hymnal/songbook, I would > have split the measure and would have kept the entire lyrical phrase > on a single system. I haven't found any examples with ties exactly as we've been discussing. It seems styles or opinions have changed over time or varied between publishers. For a good possible example, I turned to the old Peters score of Schubert's Ständchen (Horch, horch, die Lerch') - nearly every line of text begins with an upbeat - and the engraver kept each bar intact. In the same volume, the beginning of Das Wandern (first song of Die schöne Müllerin) has the piano introduction and the single word "Das" on the first line, and the end of the last page has (looking a bit lonely) the first word of the next verse and a segno. However, in the 1988 Baerenreiter/Henle set of Schubert songs, vol 7, the engraver seems quite willing to break bars in exactly the way I think you mean - for example, in "Irdisches Glück" the piano introduction finishes on beat three-and-a-half, and the singer's eighth note is on the next line, where you and I both know it belongs. :) In the same vein, the middle of the verse of that song has a new theme that starts on beat two-and-three-quarters, and the page break is comfortably set at that point in the bar. But then only a few pages further on in the book, in Am Fenster, a similar thing might have been done but was not done - there are "widowed" eighth notes on several lines. It seems to me that breaking bars in vocal music has never been consistently practiced by any good publisher except for the publishers of well-made hymn books, who seem to have done it as a matter of course. If they ARE being consistent, then they must have run into more important reasons why NOT to break the bars, in those other songs; and I don't know what those reasons are. My understanding of the engraving process and its rules is sketchy at best. -- David R ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Henle piano template
Am 06.08.2013 01:26, schrieb Kieren MacMillan: Hi Urs (et al.), I'm probably biased but I find the appearance of the 'old' score infinitely superior. Immediately, one notices [in the newer version] what a poor choice it is to have the triplet number (over the middle of the triplet) above, as it is easily confused with the fingering number immediately to its right. The issue that struck me most is the general spacing which seems too regular somehow. While it isn't the problem to be too light (or 'anemic' as one usually says in that context) I feel that the triplet groups are somewhat soulless. Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Henle piano template
Hi Urs (et al.), > I'm probably biased but I find the appearance of the 'old' score infinitely > superior. Immediately, one notices [in the newer version] what a poor choice it is to have the triplet number (over the middle of the triplet) above, as it is easily confused with the fingering number immediately to its right. >> in general, we are more interested in the inspiration by state of >> the art plate engraving rather than state of the art computer engraving, >> since LilyPond wants to be a frontrunner in computer engraving. Agreed — I will always be aiming for that with these stylesheets. Cheers, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: anyone got lilypond 2.16.2 to work on Windows Vista?
On 04/08/2013 17:22, Trevor Daniels wrote: and...@andis59.se wrote Sunday, August 04, 2013 8:28 PM One of the "problems" with Vista is the UAC and you need to have sufficient rights to write and create files and directories under \Program Files. Have you tried to run Lilypond as Administrator? I don't think this should be necessary. LilyPond builds the font cache under C:\users\.. under Vista. However, I remember there being some difficulty with the transition between, I think, 2.12 and 2.14 due to a change in the way the font cache was built and named. It is worth finding the LilyPond font caches under your home directory and deleting (or safer, renaming) them. LilyPond will rebuild them again if it finds they are missing. At least then you'll be starting from a clean base. On my system the fonts are to be found in C:\users\Trevor\.fontconfig (I think this was the old 2.12 one) C :\users\Trevor\.lilypond-fonts.cache-2 (these are the current ones) Note the leading dot in the filename, so you have to set Windows Explorer to display hidden files to see them. Trevor So far I have only been able to find the ~\lilypond-fonts.cache-2 file. Yours sincerely, Robert Honoré. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: anyone got lilypond 2.16.2 to work on Windows Vista?
On 04/08/2013 15:28, and...@andis59.se wrote: >Initializing FontConfig... >Adding font directory: >C:/Program Files/LilyPond/usr/share/lilypond/current/fonts/otf >Building font database...^C Maybe a stupid question but... Has the directory above been created? One of the "problems" with Vista is the UAC and you need to have sufficient rights to write and create files and directories under \Program Files. Have you tried to run Lilypond as Administrator? // Anders From what I could tell, it looks like the directory came with LilyPond. At least it exists on my system when I have LilyPond installed. Yours sincerely, Robert Honoré. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond meeting in Waltrop, Germany, 2013-08-16 to 2013-08-20
Am 04.08.2013 18:50, schrieb David Kastrup: Urs Liska writes: Hi David, thank you for the organisation. I could and should have written earlier, but unfortunately I can't attend this meeting. I really would love joining the discussions, and above all have the opportunity to meet some of you in person. But unfortunately it is within exactly the two weeks this year that are reserved exclusively for the family. And of course there's nothing to negotiate about that ;-) Ah, but that's exactly the reason why the meeting is on that weekend: family entertainment in just a few kilometres of distance: http://www.kanalfest.de/>. Bands, comedy, shows (the waterskiing show is quite nice), and a country fair alongside the canals over the course of three days. Leave your loved ones there for a few hours and visit the conference... Well, "my life's issue tracker" (see http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2013-04/msg00557.html) clearly has a different idea of how to spend this time, and this isn't negotiable ;-) In other words: I don't have write access to this calendar ... Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: anyone got lilypond 2.16.2 to work on Windows Vista?
On 04/08/2013 13:41, Phil Holmes wrote: - Original Message - From: "Robert Honore" OK - this is what I get part way through my lilypond verbose output: Initializing FontConfig... Adding font directory: C:/Program Files (x86)/LilyPondV2.16.2/usr/share/lilypond/current/fonts/otf Building font database... Processing `craptastic-1.ly' Parsing... And it then completes successfully. Could you repeat telling the sequence of events that got you to this situation? I think you had 2.12.3 working OK, but then tried to upgrade to 2.16.2 and have never been able to get it to work since? Could you have made any other changes? (Added fonts, etc.)? If it was my machine, I think I'd a) undelete all versions of LilyPond, b) get rid of the lilypond entry you have in path, c) delete any lilypond directories in C:/Program Files/ and then try a fresh install, and try a run from the command line with the current working directory as /LilyDir/usr/bin. I'm also slightly suspicious of where Lily is installed. By default, a 64 bit install should place it with the 32 bit files in C:/Program Files (x86)/ Mine never seems to make it to the line that says "Processing 'craptastic-1.ly'". Not even if I let it run for more than an hour. > Could you repeat telling the sequence of events that got you to this > situation? I started with a working instance of LilyPond 2.12.3 installed. I decided to install the latest version of LilyPond, which was 2.16.2, since I hadn't updated my LilyPond for some years. I did make the error initially, of trying to install directly over the existing installation of LilyPond, but the installer gave me the message that I should uninstall the existing LilyPond prior to installing the new version. I aborted the installation and uninstalled the old one. The installation of 2.16.2 then appeared to proceed without incident. Since then, I have not been able to get LilyPond (any version) to work on my machine. I did not make any other changes, like adding fonts. I did attempt to install Frescobaldi, the installation of which seemed to proceed without problem, and which appears to have produced a working (modulo LilyPond) Frescobaldi. Since then, thinking I might not have a coherent system configuration, I restored a system restore point from 2013-Jul-25, a date preceding any of my activity involving LilyPond 2.16.2. I have still not been able to get a working LilyPond since. > If it was my machine, I think I'd a) undelete all versions of LilyPond, > b) get rid of the lilypond entry you have in path, c) delete any > lilypond directories in C:/Program Files/ and then try a fresh install... When I noticed that uninstalling LilyPond still leaves c:\Program Files\lilypond in place, I deleted that directory prior to attempting a new installation of LilyPond. Also, another user informed me that keeping the old font directory in c:\users\robert around could also be a problem, so I delete it (I only found one, though) too. I shall try what you suggest about the path environment variables and see if it helps. What you say about 64-bit probably does not apply to my machine, as the operating system reports that it is a 32-bit system, even though the processor is indeed a 64-bit AMD processor. Should I double check? Yours sincerely, Robert Honoré. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Maybe bug? Lyrics on a tied note at end of system
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:10 PM, David Rogers wrote: > James Harkins writes: > > > On Aug 5, 2013 2:59 PM, "James Harkins" wrote: > >> I appreciate the thought, but I'm not quite interested in that > > particular flavor of Kool-aid. I'll go with my eye on this. I don't > > like how it looks, and I get something that is easier to read by > > fussing with the line breaks. I'm satisfied with that -- the attached > > *does* look perfect to me. > > > Looks good to me too. If I was going to quibble I would say the over-all > horizontal spacing might be a bit tight - but maybe the whole score > looks good just as it is, and having a tight spot here is worth it. > > > Maybe drifting off topic... > > > I just skimmed through a thick volume of the vocal works with piano by > R. Strauss (mostly from Universal Edition and other good German-speaking > publishers of that time). I didn't find any tied-note examples that > would help - but what I did find was impressively wide spacing during > the voice part, and a big easy-to-read text font. In some of the songs, > the piano introductions or interludes have very compressed horizontal > spacing, but as soon as the voice enters, BOOM! luxuriously wide > spacing. That has to help with issues like this. (Also you're clearly > correct that this "anticipatory-tie" situation just doesn't happen that > often in older music.) These scores "look right" overall, with perhaps > an impression of "let's waste some paper and make it perfect". :) > > Baerenreiter's (or Schott's?) early-80's setting of Schubert songs - > tight musical spacing with a small thin-ish text font. Looks very good > but the text might get hard to read if the singer's eyes aren't in good > shape. Again, the overall look is consistent with itself, even though > it's quite different from the above. Instead of sacrificing paper (as > above), they sacrificed some text readability. > > Peters's well-known old print of the songs of Schumann (and their > Schubert scores look about the same) (no date given, but the editor died > in the 1930s) - the music is fairly tightly spaced, and the lyric font > is dark and perhaps compressed horizontally. Very easy to read IMO, but > maybe I'm just used to that style. This one looks right/consistent to me > as well. In particular, the lyrics are easy to read, while visually > harmonizing with the music - the blackness of the text and the blackness > of the notes are subjectively about even, making it easier to shift my > glance from one to the other without needing to re-focus. (- I > think. I'm not an optometrist.) The sacrifice here is that the whole > thing can turn out too tight, crammed onto the page. I guess if I was > printing a very large collection of short songs I might settle for > cramped spacing as well. > > BUT (for example) if I were to take the big, wide-open text font from > the Strauss score and use it in the 1980s Schubert score, I suspect the > words wouldn't even fit in the lines. Each publisher found an effective > working setup that looks good, but they each solved the problems in > different ways. > I'm curious...did you happen to notice any examples where the engraver chose to split the measure that might be indicative of an approach? If I were to have done something like this for a hymnal/songbook, I would have split the measure and would have kept the entire lyrical phrase on a single system. Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Henle piano template
Am 05.08.2013 21:27, schrieb David Kastrup: Kieren MacMillan writes: Hello all, I have found some images of Henle's Moonlight Sonata. Old edition: http://www.ackermanmusic.co.uk/img/P/412339_1.jpg And the new one (from 2013): http://www.di-arezzo.com/multimedia/images/henle/part/hn1062.jpg Same publishing house, but so many differences :) Is there a preferred one for our purposes here? From 2013 does not sound like plate engraving. Plate engraving has some disadvantages (you need to make a lot of decisions early and then let the engraving stick with it). We are not really interested in mimicking those things that are a downside of plate engraving, and of course there is little sense in adapting techniques/styles for which we don't have the algorithmic consequences under control. But in general, we are more interested in the inspiration by state of the art plate engraving rather than state of the art computer engraving, since LilyPond wants to be a frontrunner in computer engraving. I think both these points are very good. Trying to have a closer look at the images (which are unfortunately of such poor quality) I'm probably biased but I find the appearance of the 'old' score infinitely superior. While the 'new' Henle score is undoubtedly much better than a default Finale score it _is_ having this 'computer engraving appeal' we all want to overcome. While the old one is a model one can use as a challenge I would say the new one doesn't look as nice as a LilyPond score. My 2ct Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Henle piano template
David Kastrup writes: > Kieren MacMillan writes: > >> Hello all, >> >>> I have found some images of Henle's Moonlight Sonata. >>> Old edition: http://www.ackermanmusic.co.uk/img/P/412339_1.jpg >>> And the new one (from 2013): >>> http://www.di-arezzo.com/multimedia/images/henle/part/hn1062.jpg >>> Same publishing house, but so many differences :) >> >> Is there a preferred one for our purposes here? > > From 2013 does not sound like plate engraving. Henle apparently did their last plate engraving in about 2000, and were supposedly one of the last hold-outs when most others had been using computers for a while. So, when talking about the big respected publishing houses: Anything from before 1985-1990 is almost sure to be plate-engraved; anything after 2000 is almost sure to be computer-engraved; for music from between those approximate dates, you'd have to take a look to find out. (According to the maker of SCORE, Schott was the first well-known publisher to use his software, 1990.) -- David R ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Maybe bug? Lyrics on a tied note at end of system
James Harkins writes: > On Aug 5, 2013 2:59 PM, "James Harkins" wrote: >> I appreciate the thought, but I'm not quite interested in that > particular flavor of Kool-aid. I'll go with my eye on this. I don't > like how it looks, and I get something that is easier to read by > fussing with the line breaks. I'm satisfied with that -- the attached > *does* look perfect to me. Looks good to me too. If I was going to quibble I would say the over-all horizontal spacing might be a bit tight - but maybe the whole score looks good just as it is, and having a tight spot here is worth it. Maybe drifting off topic... I just skimmed through a thick volume of the vocal works with piano by R. Strauss (mostly from Universal Edition and other good German-speaking publishers of that time). I didn't find any tied-note examples that would help - but what I did find was impressively wide spacing during the voice part, and a big easy-to-read text font. In some of the songs, the piano introductions or interludes have very compressed horizontal spacing, but as soon as the voice enters, BOOM! luxuriously wide spacing. That has to help with issues like this. (Also you're clearly correct that this "anticipatory-tie" situation just doesn't happen that often in older music.) These scores "look right" overall, with perhaps an impression of "let's waste some paper and make it perfect". :) Baerenreiter's (or Schott's?) early-80's setting of Schubert songs - tight musical spacing with a small thin-ish text font. Looks very good but the text might get hard to read if the singer's eyes aren't in good shape. Again, the overall look is consistent with itself, even though it's quite different from the above. Instead of sacrificing paper (as above), they sacrificed some text readability. Peters's well-known old print of the songs of Schumann (and their Schubert scores look about the same) (no date given, but the editor died in the 1930s) - the music is fairly tightly spaced, and the lyric font is dark and perhaps compressed horizontally. Very easy to read IMO, but maybe I'm just used to that style. This one looks right/consistent to me as well. In particular, the lyrics are easy to read, while visually harmonizing with the music - the blackness of the text and the blackness of the notes are subjectively about even, making it easier to shift my glance from one to the other without needing to re-focus. (- I think. I'm not an optometrist.) The sacrifice here is that the whole thing can turn out too tight, crammed onto the page. I guess if I was printing a very large collection of short songs I might settle for cramped spacing as well. BUT (for example) if I were to take the big, wide-open text font from the Strauss score and use it in the 1980s Schubert score, I suspect the words wouldn't even fit in the lines. Each publisher found an effective working setup that looks good, but they each solved the problems in different ways. What I take from looking at these scores is that to set primarily-vocal music really well, it's necessary to spend time before you start, making sure that your text font, your over-all horizontal spacing, and your notation font all work together to automatically give a good-looking result most of the time; and remembering that if you change any one of those you'll likely have to change the others to match it. It seems to me that Lilypond's beginnings were based purely on instrumental music, that Lilypond's lyrics were (and are) sort of an uncomfortable add-on with very limited flexibility (compared to how musically-flexible Lilypond is), and that the kind of extensive thought and experimentation with challenging vocal scores that the old publishers obviously put into their choices has not been done yet with Lilypond; so finding workable proportions to accommodate text, notes, and horizontal spacing is to some extent left up to each user. I think Lilypond's default text font is a very reasonable choice from a (free-) software point of view but only a fair-to-OK choice from a lyrics point of view. This is probably because fonts that are excellent from a lyrics point of view are non-free or hard-to-find or both. (In general, in my experience, lyric fonts for classical music are very traditional-looking according to late 19th-century expectations, able to be tightly spaced, perhaps horizontally somewhat compressed, and - very importantly - use lots of ink. The "jazz-style" fonts with their thick lines are certainly better for any lyric than spidery elegant light-coloured fonts would be.) If it was possible to compress and blacken Knuth's "Computer Modern" but keep it looking good, that would be on the right track at least. (That font seems to be in the right general style category, but it's much too light and airy for lyrics. The small-size variants of Computer Modern are blacker, but they're also wider and spaced looser, and that's the opposite of what seems to be needed here.) And copying the text:notation:spaci
Re: Henle piano template
Kieren MacMillan writes: > Hello all, > >> I have found some images of Henle's Moonlight Sonata. >> Old edition: http://www.ackermanmusic.co.uk/img/P/412339_1.jpg >> And the new one (from 2013): >> http://www.di-arezzo.com/multimedia/images/henle/part/hn1062.jpg >> Same publishing house, but so many differences :) > > Is there a preferred one for our purposes here? >From 2013 does not sound like plate engraving. Plate engraving has some disadvantages (you need to make a lot of decisions early and then let the engraving stick with it). We are not really interested in mimicking those things that are a downside of plate engraving, and of course there is little sense in adapting techniques/styles for which we don't have the algorithmic consequences under control. But in general, we are more interested in the inspiration by state of the art plate engraving rather than state of the art computer engraving, since LilyPond wants to be a frontrunner in computer engraving. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Henle piano template
Hello all, > I have found some images of Henle's Moonlight Sonata. > Old edition: http://www.ackermanmusic.co.uk/img/P/412339_1.jpg > And the new one (from 2013): > http://www.di-arezzo.com/multimedia/images/henle/part/hn1062.jpg > Same publishing house, but so many differences :) Is there a preferred one for our purposes here? Thanks, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Maybe bug? Lyrics on a tied note at end of system
On Aug 5, 2013 2:59 PM, "James Harkins" wrote: > I appreciate the thought, but I'm not quite interested in that particular flavor of Kool-aid. I'll go with my eye on this. I don't like how it looks, and I get something that is easier to read by fussing with the line breaks. I'm satisfied with that -- the attached *does* look perfect to me. Once more, with attachment. hjh <>___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Maybe bug? Lyrics on a tied note at end of system
On Aug 5, 2013 1:39 PM, "David Rogers" wrote: > Isolated, your example looks perfect to me. I think what's making it > look ugly to you is probably that it makes the spacing suddenly wider in > an otherwise fairly-tight score. Sure, that sounds right. I don't think I will ever be able to see it as "perfect." > I see several possibilities for you (not listed in any order): > > - Pretend you like it this way Sense of humor - cute ;-) > - Put a line break nearby, to prevent line break right there As I already said, this the way I decided to go with it. If a professional engraver might sometimes decide to break on one barline to avoid a more awkward system break on a different barline (or awkward page turn, or...), it seems to me that an unsightly gap because of a large lyric syllable would also be a valid reason to break the system elsewhere. > My opinion: because you've been studying this problem for a while now, > Lilypond's default probably looks worse to you than it really is. I appreciate the thought, but I'm not quite interested in that particular flavor of Kool-aid. I'll go with my eye on this. I don't like how it looks, and I get something that is easier to read by fussing with the line breaks. I'm satisfied with that -- the attached *does* look perfect to me. About the only thing that would convince me is an example from a printed edition (not from Finale, of course) where a lyric syllable forces a short note at the end of a system far left of the barline. I did sing some ensemble music back in grad school, but I don't recall ever seeing a case as egregious as my "through" example. If I had seen it, I would have thought it strange and remembered it. That means, either I didn't look at enough vocal music (possible), or engravers try to avoid the situation. hjh ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Maybe bug? Lyrics on a tied note at end of system
It seems to me that when scores are set with lots of white space, the rules are followed meticulously (and that this is why computer-generated scores began by being set much too loosely on the page - it's easier to follow spacing rules when you have lots of room to do so). As scores are set tighter on the page (I mean as a "variable", not as a historical trend), then it can become necessary to break more rules in order to fit everything in. Lyric spacing is IME generally the first thing to go out the window in that case. Isolated, your example looks perfect to me. I think what's making it look ugly to you is probably that it makes the spacing suddenly wider in an otherwise fairly-tight score. I see several possibilities for you (not listed in any order): - Pretend you like it this way - Increase the horizontal spacing of the whole score - Choose a much narrower lyric font - Print the same lyric font a lot smaller [might be hard to read] - Put a line break nearby, to prevent line break right there - Change the syllable alignment for that note [I don't like this choice; the singer can't read it very well] My opinion: because you've been studying this problem for a while now, Lilypond's default probably looks worse to you than it really is. -- David R ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Problem with bar line in \repeat volta: a bug?
Thank you very much. Your suggestgions work. I looked at the documentation, but I seemed to have missed that. Unless I have not upgraded my documentation. Sebastian Canagaratna On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Mark Stephen Mrotek wrote: > Sebastian: > > ** ** > > Some modifications must be made when the repeated section starts with an > incomplete measure. This is covered in the manual at > > http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/long-repeats. > > Specifically the “Timing.measureLength” has to be reset in both of the > alternatives. I have done this in your code for your examination. > > ** ** > > Mark > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *From:* lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org [mailto: > lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] *On Behalf Of *Sebastian > Canagaratna > *Sent:* Monday, August 05, 2013 8:16 AM > *To:* Mailinglist lilypond-user > > *Subject:* Problem with bar line in \repeat volta: a bug? > > ** ** > > Hi: > > I am having some problems with repeat volta. I give below the pdf and .ly > version of the code. The bar line ins the 3rd system is not at the and of > the line. If the repeat starts at the beginning of a bar ( now the repeat > start with r4; I remove that and replace the bf2. before it and the bf2. in > the forst alternative by bf1 ) the bat is at end of the line in the 3rd > system. Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug? > > Sebastian Canagaratna > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Problem with bar line in \repeat volta: a bug?
Sebastian:
Some modifications must be made when the repeated section starts with an
incomplete measure. This is covered in the manual at
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/long-repeats.
Specifically the "Timing.measureLength" has to be reset in both of the
alternatives. I have done this in your code for your examination.
Mark
From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org
[mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
Sebastian Canagaratna
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 8:16 AM
To: Mailinglist lilypond-user
Subject: Problem with bar line in \repeat volta: a bug?
Hi:
I am having some problems with repeat volta. I give below the pdf and .ly
version of the code. The bar line ins the 3rd system is not at the and of
the line. If the repeat starts at the beginning of a bar ( now the repeat
start with r4; I remove that and replace the bf2. before it and the bf2. in
the forst alternative by bf1 ) the bat is at end of the line in the 3rd
system. Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug?
Sebastian Canagaratna
\version "2.16.2"
\language "english"
\score{
\relative c''{
\clef treble
\key ef \major
\time 2/2
bf4 bf bf bf | bf bf bf8.[ c16] bf8.[ a16] | bf2. \repeat volta 2 { r4 | R4*4 R4*4 \break
r2 r4 ef4 bf8[ c] bf[ af] g4 ef g8[ af] g[ f] ef4 g c bf c8[ d] ef4 \break
d1 ef2 bf4 bf bf bf bf2 bf8[ af] g c bf4 bf
}
\alternative{
{ \set Timing.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 3 4) bf2. }
{ \set Timing.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 4 4) bf1 }
}
}
\layout{
\context{
\Score
}
}
}
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Maybe bug? Lyrics on a tied note at end of system
On Aug 5, 2013 11:07 AM, "Carl Peterson" wrote: > Seeing a column of flush-left syllables in the middle of a line of lyrics when there are 3-5 verses just looks *bad*, even if it is technically correct. :-D Anyway, I'll take the vocalists' word for it. I still believe any professional engraver (who is not a perfect lunatic) would not allow a wide syllable at the end of a system to interfere with the note spacing to such a ghastly degree, so I've taken the approach of forcing a system break before affected bars. It all looks a lot better. And actually, now I'm inclined to think that pushing the final note to the right would just make the spacing look weird earlier in the bar... So in the end, the optimal solution was to avoid the issue rather than fighting it: nothing in my lead sheet is non-standard for singers, and there is not a single ugly end-of-line now. Thanks for the clarification, all, and helping me to see a solution that was better than my first thought. hjh ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Problem with bar line in \repeat volta: a bug?
This is covered very clearly in the Notation Reference:
"When alternate endings are added to a repeat that begins with an incomplete
measure, it becomes necessary to set the Timing.measureLength context property
manually, in the following specific places:"
Please familiarise yourself with that section. You will see you need this:
\alternative{ { \set Timing.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 3/4) bf2. \bar "|"
}
--
Phil Holmes
- Original Message -
From: Sebastian Canagaratna
To: Mailinglist lilypond-user
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 4:15 PM
Subject: Problem with bar line in \repeat volta: a bug?
Hi:
I am having some problems with repeat volta. I give below the pdf and .ly
version of the code. The bar line ins the 3rd system is not at the and of the
line. If the repeat starts at the beginning of a bar ( now the repeat start
with r4; I remove that and replace the bf2. before it and the bf2. in the forst
alternative by bf1 ) the bat is at end of the line in the 3rd system. Am I
doing something wrong or is this a bug?
Sebastian Canagaratna
--
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Problem with bar line in \repeat volta: a bug?
Hi: I am having some problems with repeat volta. I give below the pdf and .ly version of the code. The bar line ins the 3rd system is not at the and of the line. If the repeat starts at the beginning of a bar ( now the repeat start with r4; I remove that and replace the bf2. before it and the bf2. in the forst alternative by bf1 ) the bat is at end of the line in the 3rd system. Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug? Sebastian Canagaratna testvolta.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document testvolta.ly Description: Binary data ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Maybe bug? Lyrics on a tied note at end of system
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 10:38 AM, James Harkins wrote: > On Aug 4, 2013 5:30 PM, "Trevor Daniels" wrote: > > maybe it's as Phil stated in his answer: singers expect the lyric text > to start with the note and do not follow other/foreign aesthetic styles > > Classical or jazz singers? > I can't speak particularly for either classical or jazz singers (though I did a bit of both in my university years). My own arena of semi-expertise is hymnals, and I typically see lyrics centered under the starting note of a melisma/tie. The closest I see to a full left-align is perhaps a fractional alignment, something that in our alignment system would be a -0.9 or -0.8, so that the syllable extends out into the melisma, but still has the uneven/centered look of regular syllables. Seeing a column of flush-left syllables in the middle of a line of lyrics when there are 3-5 verses just looks *bad*, even if it is technically correct. Maybe not so much of a problem in through-composed or single verse lyrics, but the difference is glaringly obvious with multiple verses. On a related matter, thanks for reminding me about the lyricsMelismaAlignment tweak. I'll probably be putting that into my template. Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Maybe bug? Lyrics on a tied note at end of system
- Original Message - From: "James Harkins" To: "Trevor Daniels" Cc: "lily-users" Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 3:38 PM Subject: Re: Maybe bug? Lyrics on a tied note at end of system On Aug 4, 2013 5:30 PM, "Trevor Daniels" wrote: Me too. As a singer it looks exactly what I would expect. That's the way all vocal music is laid out - with syllables left-aligned on tied and slurred notes, wherever they appear. How is it done in jazz lead sheets? My situation here, where the tied note at the end of a system is of a short duration, is likely to be unusual in classical (common-practice) music. I did a quick peek through the opening movement of BWV 80 and it is as you say: left-aligned for ties and slurs. But all of those cases are at least quarter notes in a texture full of 8th notes; note columns in other parts push the tied note leftward, away from the system margin, without considering the width of the lyric syllable. On top of that, the old Bach-Gesellschaft edition uses a narrow text font, so even if Bach had tied an 8th note across a barline, the text wouldn't take up much horizontal space anyway. In my case, it's an end-of-the-bar syncopation (common in jazz, not so much in classical songs), and Lilypond's text font is a bit on the wide side. On *two* systems, this occurs with the syllable "through," as attached, giving 3 narrow 8th note columns and one which is comparatively... huge. It may be "correct" by classical standards, but it is ugly. Tell you what... if you can find a lead sheet of, say, Cole Porter or Gershwin or Hoagy Carmichael with a last-note syncopation of this sort (really, anticipating a downbeat accent by part of the beat) where there is such a large space between a short note and the barline *and* the text is left aligned,* then I'll let it go. Until then, I have a feeling this is a rule that was made for classical music (where my case is rare) and it may not be optimal for another style where my case is common. * It wouldn't surprise me if engravers would rather fudge the system breaks to avoid this, instead of printing something hideous. So it may be hard to find. Maybe my solution in the end should be to use a narrower text font and adjust system breaks where needed. As far as I'm aware, there's no difference between classical and modern music. Elaine Gould makes no distinction, and is clear the lyric should be left aligned. If you want to confuse your singers, fine, but we're used to uneven note spacing, since it can't be avoided with long words, and left-aligned text on tied notes. see http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/snippets-big-page#text-aligning-syllables-with-melisma --> The requested URL /doc/v2.17/Documentation/snippets-big-page was not found on this server. And now I am getting "site currently down due to high traffic." I was going to try overriding, just to see what it would look like, but apparently I will have to guess the syntax, which I don't care to do. Can you give me a short example? Normally I would look it up myself, but I can't find it in my local copy of the 2.16 documentation and lilypond.org is not cooperating. Now back. -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Maybe bug? Lyrics on a tied note at end of system
On Aug 4, 2013 5:30 PM, "Trevor Daniels" wrote: > Me too. As a singer it looks exactly what I would expect. That's the > way all vocal music is laid out - with syllables left-aligned on tied > and slurred notes, wherever they appear. How is it done in jazz lead sheets? My situation here, where the tied note at the end of a system is of a short duration, is likely to be unusual in classical (common-practice) music. I did a quick peek through the opening movement of BWV 80 and it is as you say: left-aligned for ties and slurs. But all of those cases are at least quarter notes in a texture full of 8th notes; note columns in other parts push the tied note leftward, away from the system margin, without considering the width of the lyric syllable. On top of that, the old Bach-Gesellschaft edition uses a narrow text font, so even if Bach had tied an 8th note across a barline, the text wouldn't take up much horizontal space anyway. In my case, it's an end-of-the-bar syncopation (common in jazz, not so much in classical songs), and Lilypond's text font is a bit on the wide side. On *two* systems, this occurs with the syllable "through," as attached, giving 3 narrow 8th note columns and one which is comparatively... huge. It may be "correct" by classical standards, but it is ugly. Tell you what... if you can find a lead sheet of, say, Cole Porter or Gershwin or Hoagy Carmichael with a last-note syncopation of this sort (really, anticipating a downbeat accent by part of the beat) where there is such a large space between a short note and the barline *and* the text is left aligned,* then I'll let it go. Until then, I have a feeling this is a rule that was made for classical music (where my case is rare) and it may not be optimal for another style where my case is common. * It wouldn't surprise me if engravers would rather fudge the system breaks to avoid this, instead of printing something hideous. So it may be hard to find. Maybe my solution in the end should be to use a narrower text font and adjust system breaks where needed. Eluze: > see > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/snippets-big-page#text-aligning-syllables-with-melisma --> The requested URL /doc/v2.17/Documentation/snippets-big-page was not found on this server. And now I am getting "site currently down due to high traffic." I was going to try overriding, just to see what it would look like, but apparently I will have to guess the syntax, which I don't care to do. Can you give me a short example? Normally I would look it up myself, but I can't find it in my local copy of the 2.16 documentation and lilypond.org is not cooperating. > well - that's actually 1 override, I have three systems on one page where this is happening. I would not want a global override here because the left-alignment rule looks better in the middle of a system. Re: Changes in system breaks, I was thinking ahead to later revisions to the song. > maybe it's as Phil stated in his answer: singers expect the lyric text to > start with the note and do not follow other/foreign aesthetic styles Classical or jazz singers? hjh <>___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Repeated \tempo markings
Is there a straightforward way of making tempo markings repeat over selected staffs? I'm thinking in particular of SATB + keyboard, where it can be useful to have tempo changes marked over each of the choir staves and the upper keyboard staff. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Repeated \tempo markings
Hilary Snaden writes: > Is there a straightforward way of making tempo markings repeat over > selected staffs? I'm thinking in particular of SATB + keyboard, where > it can be useful to have tempo changes marked over each of the choir > staves and the upper keyboard staff. Remove the Metronome_mark_engraver from \Score and add it to the Staff or StaffGroup where you want to see the marks. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Re:getting musical examples to an exact textwidth with a style file
Ah yes, I'd forgotten that. It's done in the Lilypond documentation either
by setting paper as part of the lilypond call, or explicitly in the example.
e.g:
@lilypond[verbatim,quote,ragged-right]
...
\paper {
paper-width = 100\mm
paper-height = 100\mm
tagline = ##f
}
}
@end lilypond
@lilypond[papersize=c7landscape,verbatim,noragged-right]
@lilypond[papersize=a6landscape,quote,verbatim,noragged-right]
--
Phil Holmes
- Original Message -
From: Kevin Patrick Barry
To: Phil Holmes
Cc: lilypond-user
Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2013 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: Re:getting musical examples to an exact textwidth with a style
file
If you put the examples inside a \book block, you can specify system spacing
with normal lilypond commands, and the images are kept together on the page.
I tried that and ended up with a full page example instead of a cropped
system. Does using \book mean I have to manually set the page size to the
size of the example?
For example, the following fairly minimal example compiled to a pdf of 3
pages, even though it is only a single note. I can add a \paper block but
it's not immediately obvious how to crop the whole example.
\documentclass{article}
\begin{document}
\begin{lilypond}
\book {
\score {
\new Staff {
\relative f { c'1 }
}
}
}
\end{lilypond}
\end{document}
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
