Re: Beam positions and time signature spacing

[David Nalesnik]

Gilberto,

On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Gilberto Agostinho <
gilbertohasn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> Indeed that exact example is the worst one, but I think that our way of
> dealing with engraving rules, spacing, etc. should not be conducted by what
> bother us or not. I really think that some quantified standards (such as
> Gould's example, which is measured in staff space units) is the way to go.
>

Did I say otherwise?

--David
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RE: Using the 'avoid-slur property (redux)

[Daniel Rosen]

> -Original Message-
> From: Eluze [mailto:elu...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 7:48 PM
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Using the 'avoid-slur property (redux)
> 
> 
> Am 09.11.2013 21:20, schrieb Daniel Rosen:
> > In the following example, I can't figure out how to get the DynamicText to
> appear inside the Slur:
> >
> > \version "2.17.95"
> > \relative c {
> >f16( f a'8\p a8)
> > }
> >
> > This is exactly the same question as the one posed in this thread from a
> few years ago
> (http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnu.lilypond.general/42664/focus=4
> 2680), but the answer given concerning DynamicTexts confuses me a little---
> is there no way to make this happen?
> >
> >
> this seems to do it (but without avoid-slur):
> 
> \override Slur.outside-staff-priority = #555
> 
> Eluze
> 

Hmm, I guess my example was too tiny. Here it is, again, modified; I need the 
mf marking to be outside the slur but the p marking inside.

\version "2.17.95"
\relative c {
  \override Slur.outside-staff-priority = #555
  f16\mf( f a'8\p a8)
}


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Re: Beam start and end position

[Peter Van Kranenburg]

On 11/9/13 10:59 PM, Peter Van Kranenburg wrote:

Dear list,

In this example:

-
\version "2.16.2"
\score {
\new Staff \with { \override StaffSymbol #'thickness = #2.0 } {
\relative c'' { g16 a bes c } }
}
-

The beam does not overlap the stems of the notes entirely, which does
not look very nice (see attached png). It should start at the left of
the first stem and end at the right of the last stem rather than in the
center of both.

Could someone advise me on how to extend the beam a little to the right
and to the left?

(I need thick lines for engraving the music in a stone).



I found a solution myself:

\version "2.16.2"

\score {
\new Staff \with { \override StaffSymbol #'thickness = #2.5 }
{ \relative c'' { \override Stem #'beamlet-default-length = #'(0.16 . 
0.18) \override Beam #'clip-edges = ##f g16 a bes c } }

}

It might not be a proper use of these parameters, but it works for me.

best,
Peter


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Re: Using the 'avoid-slur property (redux)

[Eluze]

Am 09.11.2013 21:20, schrieb Daniel Rosen:

In the following example, I can't figure out how to get the DynamicText to 
appear inside the Slur:

\version "2.17.95"
\relative c {
   f16( f a'8\p a8)
}

This is exactly the same question as the one posed in this thread from a few 
years ago 
(http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnu.lilypond.general/42664/focus=42680), 
but the answer given concerning DynamicTexts confuses me a little---is there no 
way to make this happen?



this seems to do it (but without avoid-slur):

\override Slur.outside-staff-priority = #555

Eluze

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Re: Beam positions and time signature spacing

[Gilberto Agostinho]

And Peter, if I may bother you a bit more, could you also have a look on this
message I posted some days ago if you have the time?
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Bar-numbers-position-td153274.html

It also concerns notation standards, specifically the position of bar
numbers, and I would be very glad to hear what you and Ms. Gould think about
it (I really need to buy this book as soon as possible!).

Thanks and take care!
Gilberto



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Re: Beam positions and time signature spacing

[Gilberto Agostinho]

Hi David,

Indeed that exact example is the worst one, but I think that our way of
dealing with engraving rules, spacing, etc. should not be conducted by what
bother us or not. I really think that some quantified standards (such as
Gould's example, which is measured in staff space units) is the way to go. 

I didn't try to modify the space-alist property, and I will have a look on
it. But (as usual with my posts here), I am not trying to type a specific
score right now, I am just commenting on how to improve LilyPond.

And I also hope you are wrong about differentiating the space with and
without accidental(s) so a fix could be easier to implement.

Thanks for you reply, take care!
Gilberto



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Re: Beam start and end position

[Colin Campbell]

On 11/09/2013 04:18 PM, Thomas Morley wrote:

2013/11/9 Peter Van Kranenburg :

Dear list,

In this example:

-
\version "2.16.2"
\score {
\new Staff \with { \override StaffSymbol #'thickness = #2.0 } { \relative
c'' { g16 a bes c } }
}
-

The beam does not overlap the stems of the notes entirely, which does not
look very nice (see attached png). It should start at the left of the first
stem and end at the right of the last stem rather than in the center of
both.

Could someone advise me on how to extend the beam a little to the right and
to the left?

(I need thick lines for engraving the music in a stone).

Thanks in advance!

Peter van Kranenburg

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Hi Peter,

clearly a bug. Confirmed with 2.17.95

\version "2.17.95"

\new Staff \with { \override StaffSymbol #'thickness = #4 }
\relative c'' { g16 a b c }

Please write a bug report.

I'm sorry that no workaround came to my mind.

Thanks,
   Harm




Created Issue 3653 
: Beam ends not 
matched to StaffSymbol thickness


Cheers,
Colin

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hands.
You need to be able to throw something back.
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Re: Beam start and end position

[Thomas Morley]

2013/11/9 Peter Van Kranenburg :
> Dear list,
>
> In this example:
>
> -
> \version "2.16.2"
> \score {
> \new Staff \with { \override StaffSymbol #'thickness = #2.0 } { \relative
> c'' { g16 a bes c } }
> }
> -
>
> The beam does not overlap the stems of the notes entirely, which does not
> look very nice (see attached png). It should start at the left of the first
> stem and end at the right of the last stem rather than in the center of
> both.
>
> Could someone advise me on how to extend the beam a little to the right and
> to the left?
>
> (I need thick lines for engraving the music in a stone).
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Peter van Kranenburg
>
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>

Hi Peter,

clearly a bug. Confirmed with 2.17.95

\version "2.17.95"

\new Staff \with { \override StaffSymbol #'thickness = #4 }
\relative c'' { g16 a b c }

Please write a bug report.

I'm sorry that no workaround came to my mind.

Thanks,
  Harm

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Re: Odd \time and \appoggiatura interaction

[Thomas Morley]

2013/11/9 Frederick Bartlett :

> (I would like a way to \transpose all voices in a piece
> with a single command rather than putting an individual \transpose on each
> voice.)
>
> Also, the snippet is quite simplified; I really do need the two-voice
> construct. The actual treble clef's first measure is
>
> << { \appoggiatura { g16 ([a] } \voiceOne g4) (c8 g) a4 (b) } \\ {
> \appoggiatura { s8 }2 4 } >>
>
> where the \voiceOne is need to prevent warnings about too many clashing note
> columns (which I also don't understand, but it does work, more or less).

Hi,

how about:

\version "2.16.2"

global = {
\time 2/4
\key c\major
}

m =
\relative c''' {
\global
\slurUp
\appoggiatura { g16 ([a] } \voiceOne g4 c8 g) a4( b)
}

n =
\relative c''' {
\global
\grace s8
\voiceTwo 2 4 
}

\version "2.16"

\score {
\transpose c des
<<
  \new StaffGroup <<
\new Staff <<
\new Voice \m
\new Voice \n
>>
\new Staff <<
\new Voice \m
\new Voice \n
>>
  >>
  \new StaffGroup <<
\new Staff <<
\new Voice \m
\new Voice \n
>>
\new Staff <<
\new Voice \m
\new Voice \n
>>
  >>
>>
}

Demonstrating how to use \transpose for _all_ music of a score.

Using real, proper initialized Voices instead of << \\ >>. There are
to many issue with it, to use it for more than a _real_ _short_
section of music, imho.

Also issue 630
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=630#c25
is triggered by your code. My coding avoids/workarounds it.

HTH,
  Harm

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Re: Odd \time and \appoggiatura interaction

[Jim Long]

On Sat, Nov 09, 2013 at 04:16:17PM -0500, Frederick Bartlett wrote:
> Patrick,
> 
> Are you sure \transpose changes the key signature? It doesn't work for me,
> unless the \key is inside the \transpose, which won't generally be the
> case, since I put \key in a \global ... or is there some easier way to
> manage \transpose and \key? (I would like a way to \transpose all voices in
> a piece with a single command rather than putting an individual \transpose
> on each voice.)

\score {
  \transpose c ees
  <<
(your voices here)
  >>
}


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Re: What's the best way to fix these beams and staff spacing?

[Michael Rivers]

Thanks for the solutions. Mark -- that's the kind of solution I used the last
time this came up in a score, but this time I'd like to show which hand
Rachmaninoff wants the notes played with. Keith -- I do have a dynamic
context, so I'll try putting in some blank space that way.



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Re: \on-the-fly #first-page not working in bookTitleMarkup ?

[Eluze]

Jakub Pavlík wrote
> Hi,
> 
> I would like to have the full book title on the first page of the first
> bookpart only and an abbreviated book title on the first pages of the
> subsequent bookparts.

unfortunately your code does not involve any \book or \bookpart where we
could see what you mean...

Eluze



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Beam start and end position

[Peter Van Kranenburg]

Dear list,

In this example:

-
\version "2.16.2"
\score {
\new Staff \with { \override StaffSymbol #'thickness = #2.0 } { 
\relative c'' { g16 a bes c } }

}
-

The beam does not overlap the stems of the notes entirely, which does 
not look very nice (see attached png). It should start at the left of 
the first stem and end at the right of the last stem rather than in the 
center of both.


Could someone advise me on how to extend the beam a little to the right 
and to the left?


(I need thick lines for engraving the music in a stone).

Thanks in advance!

Peter van Kranenburg
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Re: How to get Staff context-id from a grob?

[David Kastrup]

Jan Rosseel  writes:

> Urs Liska  openlilylib.org> writes:
>
>> 
>> 
>> Am 11.10.2013 10:22, schrieb Jan
>>   Rosseel:
>> 
>> 
>> I don't know, but how do you want your solution to behave when you
>> use << some music>> in more than one staff?
>> Urs
>
> Quite simply: I didn't care about that situation because I never have that
> happening in the way I build a score. 
>
> But to answer the question: if the music gets instantiated in multiple Staff
> contexts, I will have multiple grobs and having the context ID would allow
> me to figure out in what context the music was used, and would thus allow me
> to direct my annotation to the right place. 
>
> Thinking of it: the case you mentioned kind of destroys my alternative
> solution I had in mind. So I really should find a way to attach that bit of
> information to a grob during the engraving process. 

Ok, here is another approach: the grob itself does not carry the
required information, but the grob_info data structure used for
acknowledging grobs carries the information about the engraver which
created the grob, and of course an engraver has a related context.

So if you do
\layout {
  \context {
\Score
\consists
#(make-engraver
  (acknowledgers
((grob-interface engraver grob source-engraver)
 ...)))
  }
}

then ... is called when any grob is created, and
(ly:translator-context source-engraver) should give the context where
the grob has been created.  You can then record this relation in the
grob, or you can record it in a key-weak hashtable mapping grobs to
originating contexts.

Sorry, this feedback is a bit late...

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Cello bow slurs

[Janek Warchoł]

2013/11/9 Colin Campbell :
> With a big thank you to Janek, this is what I've managed. There might be
> room to adjust spacing a bit, and I'm sure I need to review the way I use
> Voices, but it gets me over the hump, and I can whip up a MIDI version
> easily enough.
> I continue to be astounded at the power, not only of lilypond, but
> especially of the combination with the user community!

I'm glad it helped!

Janek

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Re: Odd \time and \appoggiatura interaction

[Frederick Bartlett]

Patrick,

Are you sure \transpose changes the key signature? It doesn't work for me,
unless the \key is inside the \transpose, which won't generally be the
case, since I put \key in a \global ... or is there some easier way to
manage \transpose and \key? (I would like a way to \transpose all voices in
a piece with a single command rather than putting an individual \transpose
on each voice.)

Also, the snippet is quite simplified; I really do need the two-voice
construct. The actual treble clef's first measure is

<< { \appoggiatura { g16 ([a] } \voiceOne g4) (c8 g) a4 (b) } \\ {
\appoggiatura { s8 }2 4 } >>

where the \voiceOne is need to prevent warnings about too many clashing
note columns (which I also don't understand, but it does work, more or
less).


Thanks,

Fred



On 9 November 2013 15:38, pls  wrote:

>
> On 09.11.2013, at 21:06, Frederick Bartlett 
> wrote:
>
> Urs,
>
> Thanks for that; I have been putting spacers everywhere. But now I have a
> new problem: My wife just asked me (she's the musician, I'm just the
> engraver) to transpose the piece up a half step. So, I put a \transpose c
> des {} around every voice and changed the \key in my \global to des\major.
>
> Frederick,
>
> Don't change the key to des\major. \transpose c des {} will do it for you.
>
>
> Now, in my first bar (which has an appoggiatura), the key signature shows
> up on the third beat (literally 'on': it's superimposed over the notes),
> even though I have the spacers everywhere. This snippet shows most of the
> problems, though not the superimposition, and the key signature comes after
> the appoggiatura instead of on the third beat of the measure:
>
> \version "2.16"
>
> \book {
> \score {
> \new Staff = "treble" <<
> \new Voice = "treble1" <<
> \key des\major
> \time 4/4
> \transpose c des { \relative c''' {
> << { \appoggiatura { g16 ([a] } g2 g ) } \\ { \appoggiatura { s8 } e2 e}
> >> |
> }}
> >>
> >>
> \layout {
> }
> }
> }
>
> There is no need for temporary polyphony here. This solution is easier:
>
> \version "2.16"
>
> \book {
>   \score {
> \new Staff = "treble" <<
>   \new Voice = "treble1" <<
> \transpose c des {
>   \key c\major
>   \time 4/4
>   \relative c''' {
> \slurUp
> \appoggiatura { g16 ([a] } 2  ) } |%1
>   }
>   >>
> >>
> \layout {
> }
>   }
> }
>
> hth
> patrick
>
> While the snippet shows the problem it doesn't show the rather
> uninformative message I get when engraving the larger piece:
> Preprocessing graphical objects...
> programming error: Object is not a markup.
> continuing, cross fingers
> I guess I should look up debugging options 
>
> Thanks again,
> Fred
>
>
>
> On 9 November 2013 14:23, Urs Liska  wrote:
>
>>  It is a common problem.
>> You have to put an appogiatura with spacer rests in all voices.
>>
>> Hth
>> Urs
>>
>>
>>
>> Frederick Bartlett  schrieb:
>>>
>>> I'm running Lilypond 2.16.2 inside Frescobaldi 2.0.10 on Fedora 19.
>>>
>>> This gives two 'C' time signatures, one before and one after the
>>> appoggiatura:
>>>
>>> \version "2.16"
>>>
>>> \book {
>>> \score {
>>> \new Staff = "treble" <<
>>> \new Voice = "treble1" <<
>>> \key c\major
>>> \time 4/4
>>> \relative c''' {
>>> << { \appoggiatura { g16 ([a] } g1) } \\ { 1} >> |
>>> }
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> \layout {
>>> }
>>> }
>>> }
>>>
>>> If I comment out the \time 4/4, I get only one 'C', in the usual place.
>>>
>>> If I change the \time to 3/4 (and the note values to 2.), then I get a
>>> 'C' before the appoggiatura and a '3/4' after.
>>>
>>> Is this a known bug? I couldn't find it, though I did see discussions of
>>> problems with appoggiaturi and bar lines in general ...
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Fred
>>>
>>> --
>>> “To my knowledge I have no knowledge.” -- John Kerry, the Secretary of
>>> State of the United States of America, in response to Senator Barbara
>>> Boxer, 3 Sep 2013
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> lilypond-user mailing list
>>> lilypond-user@gnu.org
>>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> “To my knowledge I have no knowledge.” -- John Kerry, the Secretary of
> State of the United States of America, in response to Senator Barbara
> Boxer, 3 Sep 2013
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>
>


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Re: Cello bow slurs

[Colin Campbell]

On 11/09/2013 02:16 AM, Janek Warchoł wrote:
If you don't care about getting correct MIDI, you could use a trick to 
get the two notes in the same voice: 



<< \clef F { r2 r4 s } \\ { r2 e2*1/2^( \voiceOne c'4) }
best,
Janek




With a big thank you to Janek, this is what I've managed. There might be 
room to adjust spacing a bit, and I'm sure I need to review the way I 
use Voices, but it gets me over the hump, and I can whip up a MIDI 
version easily enough.
I continue to be astounded at the power, not only of lilypond, but 
especially of the combination with the user community!


Cheers, Colin

Code follows:
%<--%<-

\version "2.17.30"

\language "english"

\header { tagline = ##f}


celloI = \relative c {

<<

{ s2 r4 s s1 s2 r4 s s1 b2\rest \stemDown d b4\rest s2.

}

\\

{

d2\rest e2*1/2_( \voiceOne c'4)\oneVoice r2 a8 (c b4) r2 e,2*1/2_( 
\voiceOne a4) \oneVoice


r2 e8 (g fs4) \stemUp a2.^(b4) c1*1/4^( \voiceOne e,2. )

}

>>

}


celloIPart = \new Staff {

\clef bass \celloI }


\score {

\celloIPart

\layout { }

}


%<-%<---

and the result is attached.


--
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hands.
You need to be able to throw something back.
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Re: Odd \time and \appoggiatura interaction

[pls]

On 09.11.2013, at 21:06, Frederick Bartlett  
wrote:

> Urs,
> 
> Thanks for that; I have been putting spacers everywhere. But now I have a new 
> problem: My wife just asked me (she's the musician, I'm just the engraver) to 
> transpose the piece up a half step. So, I put a \transpose c des {} around 
> every voice and changed the \key in my \global to des\major.
Frederick,

Don't change the key to des\major. \transpose c des {} will do it for you.
> 
> Now, in my first bar (which has an appoggiatura), the key signature shows up 
> on the third beat (literally 'on': it's superimposed over the notes), even 
> though I have the spacers everywhere. This snippet shows most of the 
> problems, though not the superimposition, and the key signature comes after 
> the appoggiatura instead of on the third beat of the measure:
> 
> \version "2.16"
> 
> \book {
> \score {
> \new Staff = "treble" <<
> \new Voice = "treble1" <<
> \key des\major
> \time 4/4
> \transpose c des { \relative c''' {
> << { \appoggiatura { g16 ([a] } g2 g ) } \\ { \appoggiatura { s8 } e2 e} >> |
> }}
> >>
> >>
> \layout {
> }
> }
> }
> 
There is no need for temporary polyphony here. This solution is easier:

\version "2.16"

\book {
  \score {
\new Staff = "treble" <<
  \new Voice = "treble1" <<
\transpose c des {
  \key c\major
  \time 4/4
  \relative c''' {
\slurUp
\appoggiatura { g16 ([a] } 2  ) } |%1
  }
  >>
>>
\layout {
}
  }
}

hth
patrick
> While the snippet shows the problem it doesn't show the rather uninformative 
> message I get when engraving the larger piece:
> Preprocessing graphical objects...
> programming error: Object is not a markup.
> continuing, cross fingers
> I guess I should look up debugging options 
> 
> Thanks again,
> Fred
> 
> 
> 
> On 9 November 2013 14:23, Urs Liska  wrote:
> It is a common problem.
> You have to put an appogiatura with spacer rests in all voices.
> 
> Hth
> Urs
> 
> 
> 
> Frederick Bartlett  schrieb:
> I'm running Lilypond 2.16.2 inside Frescobaldi 2.0.10 on Fedora 19.
> 
> This gives two 'C' time signatures, one before and one after the appoggiatura:
> 
> \version "2.16"
> 
> \book {
> \score {
> \new Staff = "treble" <<
> \new Voice = "treble1" <<
> \key c\major
> \time 4/4
> \relative c''' {
> << { \appoggiatura { g16 ([a] } g1) } \\ { 1} >> |
> }
> >>
> >>
> \layout {
> }
> }
> }
> 
> If I comment out the \time 4/4, I get only one 'C', in the usual place.
> 
> If I change the \time to 3/4 (and the note values to 2.), then I get a 'C' 
> before the appoggiatura and a '3/4' after.
> 
> Is this a known bug? I couldn't find it, though I did see discussions of 
> problems with appoggiaturi and bar lines in general ...
> 
> Thanks!
> Fred
> 
> -- 
> “To my knowledge I have no knowledge.” -- John Kerry, the Secretary of State 
> of the United States of America, in response to Senator Barbara Boxer, 3 Sep 
> 2013
> 
> 
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> “To my knowledge I have no knowledge.” -- John Kerry, the Secretary of State 
> of the United States of America, in response to Senator Barbara Boxer, 3 Sep 
> 2013
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Using the 'avoid-slur property (redux)

[Daniel Rosen]

In the following example, I can't figure out how to get the DynamicText to 
appear inside the Slur:

\version "2.17.95"
\relative c {
  f16( f a'8\p a8)
}

This is exactly the same question as the one posed in this thread from a few 
years ago 
(http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnu.lilypond.general/42664/focus=42680), 
but the answer given concerning DynamicTexts confuses me a little---is there no 
way to make this happen?

DR



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Re: What's the best way to fix these beams and staff spacing?

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Mr. Rivers,

 

Attached is my solution. Might not be the best, yet may give some ideas.

 

Mark

\version "2.16.2"

global = {
  \key bes \major
  \time 4/4
}

right = \relative c'' {
  \global
  
  r32 aes, c fis c'8
  \change Staff = "left"
  \stemUp
  d,,32 [ ees f g ]
  \change Staff = "right"
  \stemNeutral
  c ees g, ees 
  \change Staff = "left"
  \stemUp
  bes [ ees bes' g ] 
  \change Staff = "right" 
  c g' ees g, 
  \change Staff = "left"
  aes, [ c f ees ]
  g c ees, c |
  
}

left = \relative c' {
  \global
  
  ees,8 fis32 g b c
  \stemDown
  d,8 c bes4 aes8 g |
  
}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "right" \right
\new Staff = "left" { \clef bass \left }
  >>
  \layout { }
}
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Re: What's the best way to fix these beams and staff spacing?

[Keith OHara]

Michael Rivers  gmail.com> writes:

> Here is the 28th bar of an etude by Rachmaninoff:
 
> What would be the best way of fixing this output? The space between the
> staves is fine for all but this system and one other with the same problem.
> 

Probably you know already that LilyPond usually spaces the staves first,
and then decides where the beam would best go (here, they would go above).
But if the upper-staff notes need to be voiceTwo, so the stems go down,
LilyPond runs out of options about where to fit the beam, and is not
smart enough to re-set the staff-spacing.

So we need to help LilyPond plan ahead, and reserve some space for the
beam, preferably using something local.

I have had difficulty finding a solution that works in different versions
of LilyPond.  A text markup on the last note /before/ the staff-crossings
_\markup\pad-around #1.5 \transparent "space for beam" 
works in your case.  If you put the markup on a note in the cross-staff
beam, though, LilyPond moves it out from between the staves.

If there is a Dynamics between the staves, that might be a convenient place
to put a transparent markup where we need space.



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Re: Odd \time and \appoggiatura interaction

[Frederick Bartlett]

Urs,

Thanks for that; I have been putting spacers everywhere. But now I have a
new problem: My wife just asked me (she's the musician, I'm just the
engraver) to transpose the piece up a half step. So, I put a \transpose c
des {} around every voice and changed the \key in my \global to des\major.

Now, in my first bar (which has an appoggiatura), the key signature shows
up on the third beat (literally 'on': it's superimposed over the notes),
even though I have the spacers everywhere. This snippet shows most of the
problems, though not the superimposition, and the key signature comes after
the appoggiatura instead of on the third beat of the measure:

 \version "2.16"


\book {

\score {

\new Staff = "treble" <<

\new Voice = "treble1" <<

\key des\major

\time 4/4

\transpose c des { \relative c''' {

<< { \appoggiatura { g16 ([a] } g2 g ) } \\ { \appoggiatura { s8 } e2 e} >>
|

}}

>>

>>

\layout {

}

}

}

While the snippet shows the problem it doesn't show the rather
uninformative message I get when engraving the larger piece:
Preprocessing graphical objects...

programming error: Object is not a markup.

continuing, cross fingers

I guess I should look up debugging options 

Thanks again,
Fred



On 9 November 2013 14:23, Urs Liska  wrote:

>  It is a common problem.
> You have to put an appogiatura with spacer rests in all voices.
>
> Hth
> Urs
>
>
>
> Frederick Bartlett  schrieb:
>>
>> I'm running Lilypond 2.16.2 inside Frescobaldi 2.0.10 on Fedora 19.
>>
>> This gives two 'C' time signatures, one before and one after the
>> appoggiatura:
>>
>> \version "2.16"
>>
>>
>> \book {
>>
>> \score {
>>
>> \new Staff = "treble" <<
>>
>> \new Voice = "treble1" <<
>>
>> \key c\major
>>
>> \time 4/4
>>
>> \relative c''' {
>>
>> << { \appoggiatura { g16 ([a] } g1) } \\ { 1} >> |
>>
>> }
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >>
>>
>> \layout {
>>
>> }
>>
>> }
>>
>> }
>>
>>
>> If I comment out the \time 4/4, I get only one 'C', in the usual place.
>>
>>
>> If I change the \time to 3/4 (and the note values to 2.), then I get a
>> 'C' before the appoggiatura and a '3/4' after.
>>
>>
>> Is this a known bug? I couldn't find it, though I did see discussions of
>> problems with appoggiaturi and bar lines in general ...
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Fred
>>
>> --
>> “To my knowledge I have no knowledge.” -- John Kerry, the Secretary of
>> State of the United States of America, in response to Senator Barbara
>> Boxer, 3 Sep 2013
>>
>> --
>>
>> lilypond-user mailing list
>> lilypond-user@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>>
>>


-- 
“To my knowledge I have no knowledge.” -- John Kerry, the Secretary of
State of the United States of America, in response to Senator Barbara
Boxer, 3 Sep 2013
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Re: Odd \time and \appoggiatura interaction

[Urs Liska]

It is a common problem.
You have to put an appogiatura with spacer rests in all voices.

Hth
Urs



Frederick Bartlett  schrieb:
>I'm running Lilypond 2.16.2 inside Frescobaldi 2.0.10 on Fedora 19.
>
>This gives two 'C' time signatures, one before and one after the
>appoggiatura:
>
> \version "2.16"
>
>
>\book {
>
>\score {
>
>\new Staff = "treble" <<
>
>\new Voice = "treble1" <<
>
>\key c\major
>
>\time 4/4
>
>\relative c''' {
>
><< { \appoggiatura { g16 ([a] } g1) } \\ { 1} >> |
>
>}
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>\layout {
>
>}
>
>}
>
>}
>
>
>If I comment out the \time 4/4, I get only one 'C', in the usual place.
>
>
>If I change the \time to 3/4 (and the note values to 2.), then I get a
>'C'
>before the appoggiatura and a '3/4' after.
>
>
>Is this a known bug? I couldn't find it, though I did see discussions
>of
>problems with appoggiaturi and bar lines in general ...
>
>Thanks!
>Fred
>
>-- 
>“To my knowledge I have no knowledge.” -- John Kerry, the Secretary of
>State of the United States of America, in response to Senator Barbara
>Boxer, 3 Sep 2013
>
>
>
>
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Odd \time and \appoggiatura interaction

[Frederick Bartlett]

I'm running Lilypond 2.16.2 inside Frescobaldi 2.0.10 on Fedora 19.

This gives two 'C' time signatures, one before and one after the
appoggiatura:

 \version "2.16"


\book {

\score {

\new Staff = "treble" <<

\new Voice = "treble1" <<

\key c\major

\time 4/4

\relative c''' {

<< { \appoggiatura { g16 ([a] } g1) } \\ { 1} >> |

}

>>

>>

\layout {

}

}

}


If I comment out the \time 4/4, I get only one 'C', in the usual place.


If I change the \time to 3/4 (and the note values to 2.), then I get a 'C'
before the appoggiatura and a '3/4' after.


Is this a known bug? I couldn't find it, though I did see discussions of
problems with appoggiaturi and bar lines in general ...

Thanks!
Fred

-- 
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State of the United States of America, in response to Senator Barbara
Boxer, 3 Sep 2013
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Re: What's the best way to fix these beams and staff spacing?

[Michael Rivers]

Thanks for the reply. My scanner's broken, but there are two scans of the
Rachmaninoff prelude at IMSLP:
http://imslp.org/wiki/Etudes-tableaux,_Op.33_%28Rachmaninoff,_Sergei%29

The first edition at IMSLP lists the G minor prelude as the 8th prelude; the
second one lists it as the 7th prelude.

In the second edition (which is a little better), it's the 7th etude, 3rd
page, 3rd system. It's pretty clear what's wrong with the Lilypond output:
the beams cross right over the note heads. 


 



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Re: Debugging Lillypond - Unable to find file "lily.scm" in load path

[David Kastrup]

Tom  writes:

> I have a working version of lilypond and am trying to build a debug
> version to see how it works to see if I can help but when I try and
> debug it cant initialise:
>  Unable to find file "lily.scm" in load path
> I could, presumably copy the working versions
> /usr/share/lilypond/2.16.0 directory structue to build/lily/share but
> it may be out of sync?
> I'd rather not do an install and then recompile the current version
> with debugging data so how do I get the share data built and
> installed?

Get a newer version of gdb.

Alternatively, start with
break main
run
set argv[0] = "out/bin/lilypond"
(or whatever it is where you are starting LilyPond from)
continue

About a year's worth of gdb is confused by symbolic links.  You can also
replace the symbolic link by a hard link or copy, but then you need to
keep it up to date yourself.

-- 
David Kastrup


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Debugging Lillypond - Unable to find file "lily.scm" in load path

[Tom]

I have a working version of lilypond and am trying to build a debug 
version to see how it works to see if I can help but when I try and 
debug it cant initialise:

 Unable to find file "lily.scm" in load path
I could, presumably copy the working versions /usr/share/lilypond/2.16.0 
directory structue to build/lily/share but it may be out of sync?
I'd rather not do an install and then recompile the current version with 
debugging data so how do I get the share data built and installed?

Tom

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Re: Beam positions and time signature spacing

[David Nalesnik]

Hi Gilberto,


On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Gilberto Agostinho <
gilbertohasn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Great!
>
> So now it would also be nice to hear what others have to say on this issue
> of spacing. As you said, Gould book is highly regarded and I think we
> should
> follow it whenever we find appropriate.


I agree that her examples look better for the most part.  (I'm most
bothered by your example, "with clef only and with more accidentals," where
the accidentals are uncomfortably close to the clef.)

Have you tried modifying the 'space-alist property of various prefatory
objects, like Clef and TimeSignature?  This might help, but as far as I can
tell, there's no provision for spacing with or without accidental(s) which
is one of the principal problems highlighted by your analysis.  (I hope I'm
wrong about this!)

--David
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Re: Beam positions and time signature spacing

[Gilberto Agostinho]

Great!

So now it would also be nice to hear what others have to say on this issue
of spacing. As you said, Gould book is highly regarded and I think we should
follow it whenever we find appropriate.

Best,
Gilberto



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Re: Beam positions and time signature spacing

[Peter Bjuhr]

On 11/09/2013 05:09 PM, Gilberto Agostinho wrote:

But that is exactly what I did, I turned the staff 90 degrees to create that
ruler.

Yes, I thought so too (good job interpreting Gould just from the 
image!). But it wasn't completely clear and I wanted to clarify anyway!


Best
Peter


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Re: Beam positions and time signature spacing

[Gilberto Agostinho]

But that is exactly what I did, I turned the staff 90 degrees to create that
ruler.

What I meant by size is that it would be better to look and measure things
(more pixels = more precision), but that my image is good enough to realize
where LilyPond is way off.



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Re: Beam positions and time signature spacing

[Peter Bjuhr]

I'm sorry, I should have been clearer what she actually measures and not 
just posted the image! I hope you figured it out anyway!


What she measures is the stave-space. So, you can see her scale as a 
staff turned forward 90°. It's a direct relational measure it doesn't 
depend on fontsize or anything.



On 11/09/2013 03:52 PM, Gilberto Agostinho wrote:

Thanks for this one more scan, Peter.

So have a look on how that compares to LilyPond:

spacing.ly 


(I should have created a larger image, but that is too late now. Anyway, it
is still possible to see the distances on my example above)

The numbers in red are the ones that differ from your scan. Also note that
the distance between the clefs and the time signatures is way larger in
LilyPond when compared to her example. This is one what bothers my eye the
most on all these examples, to be honest.

I think that we should balance these distances, her examples are looking
much better than the current output of LilyPond IMO.

What do you think?


On a general term, I think LilyPond should adjust to contemporary music 
notation standards where applicable, and as far as I know Goulds book is 
today the most comprehensive account for contemporary standards that we 
have. It's the latest update to use a quasi software engineering phrase.


Best
Peter





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Re: Beam positions and time signature spacing

[Gilberto Agostinho]

Thanks for this one more scan, Peter.

So have a look on how that compares to LilyPond:

spacing.ly   
 

(I should have created a larger image, but that is too late now. Anyway, it
is still possible to see the distances on my example above)

The numbers in red are the ones that differ from your scan. Also note that
the distance between the clefs and the time signatures is way larger in
LilyPond when compared to her example. This is one what bothers my eye the
most on all these examples, to be honest.

I think that we should balance these distances, her examples are looking
much better than the current output of LilyPond IMO.

What do you think?

Best,
Gilberto



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Re: Cello bow slurs

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi,

> Well, if we are talking about a cello, you'll never have more than one
> slur at a time, right?

Not true — for example, Tchaikovsky used multiple slurs on strings all the time.

Kieren.
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\on-the-fly #first-page not working in bookTitleMarkup ?

[Jakub Pavlík]

Hi,

I would like to have the full book title on the first page of the first
bookpart only and an abbreviated book title on the first pages of the
subsequent bookparts.
I know the sollution with resetting the unwanted fields in the bookpart
headers, but it would be more convenient to define the whole "titling
logic" on one place. I tried it, but the content inserted by
\on-the-fly #first-page ...
will never be printed. (Try the minimal example below.)

Do I miss anything?

Thanks in advance,
Jakub

--- snip

 \version "2.17.24"


\paper {

bookTitleMarkup = \markup {

\on-the-fly #first-page \fromproperty #'header:title

}

}


\header {

title = "Example"

}


\score { \relative c' { a } }


--- /snip
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Current Stack Exchange activity (was: Thoughts about creating Stack Exchange page?)

[Peter Bjuhr]

On 11/02/2013 10:28 AM, Werner LEMBERG wrote:

If it's community policy or at least a general agreement that we
should always refer to this list, I will of course do so the next
time!

Yes, please do so.


But I hope we agree that it, as Ryan wrote, would be helpful for the
community if we found ways to deal with questions posted outside of
this list!?

If you mean with `deal' to forward stuff to the mailing list, or to
direct users to the list, this is fully OK.


 Werner


I posted an answer on the meta question referring to this list as 
agreed. Hopefully that could attract some users to post their questions 
here.


But it will not be as easy I think to also attract those who are already 
actively using Stack Exchange for their LilyPond questions. It could 
even be counter-productive to constantly and repeatedly refer to the 
mailing list, as that would more likely repel more than attract.


So, as I see it apart from occasional reminders of the list we could 
only choose between these two alternatives:


1. Ignore the activity and let them use Stack Exchange if they like.
2. Take an active part and report to the list any valuable questions and 
solutions.


As may be implied I would prefer the second alternative. But as before 
I'll accept the policy agreed upon here!


I would also like to say that I otherwise support Janeks view that we 
should have our own Stack Exchange site in the future but the time has 
not come for this just yet.


Best
Peter

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Frescobaldi included in MacPorts!

[Davide Liessi]

2013/11/7 flup2 :
> I don't know if this could help: the only dependencies problem I had with
> the "MIDI part" was that 'aubio' didn't compile with OS X 10.9 (making the
> 'sudo port upgrade outdated' unusable).
>
> 'aubio' is part of the dependencies of 'portmidi',

As Hraban already said, aubio is not a dependency of portmidi, see
`port rdeps portmidi` (rdeps = recursive dependencies).
Can you please try `sudo port upgrade portmidi` and tell me what happens?

Best wishes.
Davide

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Re: What's the best way to fix these beams and staff spacing?

[Peter Bjuhr]

On 11/09/2013 09:24 AM, Michael Rivers wrote:

Here is the 28th bar of an etude by Rachmaninoff:


What would be the best way of fixing this output? The space between the
staves is fine for all but this system and one other with the same problem.




Could you post the same bar from an edition of the score?

Best
Peter


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Re: Beam positions and time signature spacing

[Peter Bjuhr]

On 11/08/2013 08:46 PM, Gilberto Agostinho wrote:

Hi Peter,

I will ask him about this, and I will also check some other scores of mine
to see if I find these kind of beams.

And if it would not be asking you too much, do you know if Gould says
something on her book about the distance between clef, key signature, time
signature and the first note of a system? This was the second discussion I
had with this friend of mine about LilyPond.

Take care,
Gilberto




No problem, I'm enjoying every opportunity to explore this excellent book!

I looked before on your first posting, but didn't find anything. This 
time I found exactly what you are after I think on p. 42:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B627QNBiKcXpVVpMNkUxekhUUFU/edit?usp=sharing

Best
Peter

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Re: Cello bow slurs

[Janek Warchoł]

Hi,

2013/11/9 Colin Campbell :
> I have an exercise which requires starting a note on one string, then adding
> a second note while the first is still sounding.  Graphically, it looks like
> a slur. My problem is that, in order to get timing right, I have to use two
> voices, and of course, I can't slur from one to the other.
>
> I'm also stuck on cutting pieces out of a scanned image, so here is what I
> need, attempted in ASCII, with the slur from the e2 to the c'4:
>
> upper  r2  r4   c'4 |
>
> lower   r2  e2|
>
> Having an abundance of humility, I don't mind replies of RTFM, as long as
> you point out the part of TFM to read, and I welcome any and all ideas.

If you don't care about getting correct MIDI, you could use a trick to
get the two notes in the same voice:

<<
  \clef F
  { r2 r4 s }
  \\
  { r2 e2*1/2^( \voiceOne c'4) }
>>

best,
Janek

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What's the best way to fix these beams and staff spacing?

[Michael Rivers]

Here is the 28th bar of an etude by Rachmaninoff:

\version "2.16.2"

global = {
  \key g \minor
  \time 4/4
}

goUp = { \change Staff = "right" \stemDown }
goDown = { \change Staff = "left" \stemUp }

right = \relative c'' {
  \global
  r32 as,( c fis c'8) \goDown d,,32( es fis \goUp g c es g, es) \goDown bes(
es b' \goUp g c g' es g,)
\goDown as,( c fis \goUp \clef bass es g c es, c) |
}

left = \relative c {
  \global
  \voiceTwo
  es8_>( fis32 g b c) d,8_> c-> bes4_> as8_> g_> | 
}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "right" \right
\new Staff = "left" { \clef bass \left }
  >>
}


What would be the best way of fixing this output? The space between the
staves is fine for all but this system and one other with the same problem.



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Re: Markup on both clef and key signature

[Eluze]

Hans Aberg-2 wrote
> It may be too complicated, in view of that the markup is tied to musical
> functions. There is [1], too.
> 
> 
> 1. http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=735

sure - but it seems quite limited - just put the notes c b a g in the first
measure to illustrate.

Eluze



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