Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[Graeme Lee]

On 13-May 6:57, H. S. Teoh wrote:

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 12:41:12PM -0700, Paul Scott wrote:

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 08:10:03AM -0700, H. S. Teoh wrote:

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 06:15:55PM +1000, Andrew Bernard wrote:

Greetings All,

I am wondering how large the lilypond end user community is. Are
there any estimates?

Additional to this, I am wondering what the breakdown is by
computer platform, for example, how many people use Fedora, and so
on.

[...]

I use lilypond regularly, on Debian GNU/Linux (unstable).

That's exactly my setup.  I use Emacs.

[...]

I use vim. :-)


T

Lilypond 2.18.2 is available in the OpenBSD ports/packages repository as 
of OpenBSD 5.6 - Probably a small audience, but it's there.


And Frescobaldi isn't too hard to get working either.

Regards,

Graeme

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Re: Higher-level score handling needed? (was: Do we really offer the future?)

[Johan Vromans]

On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 14:18:19 +0200
Jacques Menu  wrote:

> Or maybe the user should start from the global architecture of the score
> (number of systems, staves and bars, where the repeats/alternatives occur
> and for how many times, where vertical spacing should be augmented, …)
> and then « populate » the resulting « canevas ».

When working on a (new) score, my highest priority is to get all the notes
and rests and articulations and lyrics and so on in their correct places.
In this stage, the above approach could be very useful, since it would be
possible to render the score, or even the actual part that is being worked
on, very fast.

Only when the contents of the score are technically okay, the more tedious
and slower process of typesetting needs to begin.

-- Johan

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Odd note placement

[Guy Stalnaker]

All,

I cannot figure out why LP is doing this. The snippet is below. Note the
second to last blank measure and the following measure with the b-flat, a
"chord" which should not be a chord. The two notes should not be
simultaneous. The "problem" seems to be the Lyrics added to the temporary
polyphonic context "soptwomusic" - if they are removed, the final two
pitches are engraved correctly in two separate measure. Add the Lyrics and
you see the result. You do see the result, don't you? :-)

I'm using LP 2.19 with Frescobalci 2.18.x. on a Win7 computer.


\version "2.18.2"
\language "english"

\paper {
  #(set-paper-size "letter")
}

global = {
  \key d \major
  \numericTimeSignature
  \autoBeamOff
}

% soprano music here

sopranomusic = {
  \global
  \time 3/4
  <<
{
  \voiceOne
  fs''4 fs'' fs'' |
  a'2. |
  b''4 b'' b'' |
  c'''2. |
}
{ \new Voice
  {
\voiceTwo
ds''4 ds'' ds'' |
a'2. |
fs''4 fs'' fs'' |
a''2. |
  }
}
  >> \oneVoice
  c''4 g'8 c' g'
  <<
{
  \voiceOne
  c''8 |
  b'2. |
}
{ \new Voice = "soptwomusic"
  {
\voiceTwo
c''8 |
g'4 f' e' |
  }
} \new Lyrics = "soptwomusic" \lyricsto "soptwomusic" {
  Al -- le -- lu -- ia
}
  >> \oneVoice
  bf'2. |
  a' |
}

sopranowords = \lyricmode {
  Al -- le -- lu -- ia,
  Al -- le -- lu -- ia,
  Al -- le -- lu -- ia,
  Al -- le -- lu -- ia,
}

sopranoStaff = {
  \new Staff { \sopranomusic }
  \addlyrics { \sopranowords }
}

\score {
  \new ChoirStaff <<
\sopranoStaff
  >>
  \layout {  }
  \midi {
\tempo 4=100
  }
}


Thanks.

Please reply to both me and the list.

Guy Stalnaker
jimmyg...@gmail.com
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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[H. S. Teoh]

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 04:19:41PM -0400, Sam Bivens wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
> 
> Mark me down as another Fedora 21 Lilypond user. Unfortunately I don't
> have the skills (or time...) to aid in your development issue, but I
> still thought I'd share!
> 
> To address something that Martin hinted at--what Linux distros
> automatically come with Lilypond? I was unaware that that existed.
[...]

Lilypond is in the main Debian repository. It's not installed by
default, though.


T

-- 
"I speak better English than this villain Bush" -- Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, 
Iraqi Minister of Information

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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[J Martin Rushton]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1



On 12/05/15 21:28, Martin Tarenskeen wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, 12 May 2015, Sam Bivens wrote:
> 
>> To address something that Martin hinted at--what Linux distros 
>> automatically come with Lilypond? I was unaware that that
>> existed.
> 
> I know:
> 
> Fedora Jam Ubuntu Studio
> 
CentOS certainly doesn't, and therefore I suspect neither does RHEL or
Scientific Linux.  Further, it is not in the EPEL repository so the
choice is either to hope Fedora works, or else compile from source.
However, if you do the latter Lilypond is not in the RPM database and
any further applications which rely on Lily will complain.
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Re: Where is there a "z" or "s" quarter rest?

[tisimst]

David,

The latest set of unstable versions has the rest you speak of, called
rests.2z. Is that the one you're looking for?

http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/the-feta-font#rest-glyphs

- Abraham

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 3:45 PM, David Raleigh Arnold-3 [via Lilypond] <
ml-node+s1069038n176520...@n5.nabble.com> wrote:

> tisimst  gmail.com> writes:
>
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I couldn't wait any longer, so here's a formal announcement about the
> new
> > music fonts that I've been working on, by way of example. They are all
> 100%
> > LilyPond compatible
>
> Please, a z-s rest? It's newer than the Gutenberg quarter rests you have
> in
> all of the fonts, and it has its advocates. It's especially good for
> complex
> guitar music, because it takes less vertical space.
>
> I call your present quarter a Gutenberg rest because it is a blackletter
> "R", and used in printing as well as writing because the fonts and the
> blackletter writing style developed together in Gutenberg's day. Of course
> the "R" was joined to a straight-sided letter on its left when writing,
> but
> the same form was printed next to a straight sided letter without
> connection.
>
> The z-s rest looks like a backwards "z". It was an improvement on the
> "classical" rest, because it did not cause frequent mistakes.
>
> Regards, Rale
>
>
>
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re: Where is there a "z" or "s" quarter rest?

[David Raleigh Arnold]

tisimst  gmail.com> writes:

> 
> All,
> 
> I couldn't wait any longer, so here's a formal announcement about the new
> music fonts that I've been working on, by way of example. They are all 100%
> LilyPond compatible

Please, a z-s rest? It's newer than the Gutenberg quarter rests you have in
all of the fonts, and it has its advocates. It's especially good for complex
guitar music, because it takes less vertical space.

I call your present quarter a Gutenberg rest because it is a blackletter
"R", and used in printing as well as writing because the fonts and the
blackletter writing style developed together in Gutenberg's day. Of course
the "R" was joined to a straight-sided letter on its left when writing, but
the same form was printed next to a straight sided letter without connection.

The z-s rest looks like a backwards "z". It was an improvement on the
"classical" rest, because it did not cause frequent mistakes.

Regards, Rale



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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[H. S. Teoh]

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 12:41:12PM -0700, Paul Scott wrote:
> On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 08:10:03AM -0700, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> > On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 06:15:55PM +1000, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> > > Greetings All,
> > > 
> > > I am wondering how large the lilypond end user community is. Are
> > > there any estimates?
> > > 
> > > Additional to this, I am wondering what the breakdown is by
> > > computer platform, for example, how many people use Fedora, and so
> > > on.
> > [...]
> > 
> > I use lilypond regularly, on Debian GNU/Linux (unstable).
> 
> That's exactly my setup.  I use Emacs.
[...]

I use vim. :-)


T

-- 
I'm still trying to find a pun for "punishment"...

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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[Shane Brandes]

Ubuntu Studio is what I am using, of course by the time I am done with
it it doesn't look too much like the studio version anymore. The long
time stable version and even the regular releases tend to have a
significant lag between current stable releases.

Shane

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Sam Bivens  wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
>
> Mark me down as another Fedora 21 Lilypond user. Unfortunately I don't
> have the skills (or time...) to aid in your development issue, but I
> still thought I'd share!
>
> To address something that Martin hinted at--what Linux distros
> automatically come with Lilypond? I was unaware that that existed.
>
> --Sam
>
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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[Martin Tarenskeen]

On Tue, 12 May 2015, Sam Bivens wrote:


To address something that Martin hinted at--what Linux distros
automatically come with Lilypond? I was unaware that that existed.


I know:

Fedora Jam
Ubuntu Studio

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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[Sam Bivens]

Hi Andrew,

Mark me down as another Fedora 21 Lilypond user. Unfortunately I don't
have the skills (or time...) to aid in your development issue, but I
still thought I'd share!

To address something that Martin hinted at--what Linux distros
automatically come with Lilypond? I was unaware that that existed.

--Sam

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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[Martin Tarenskeen]

On Tue, 12 May 2015, Steve Lacy wrote:


Otherwise, it's going to be pretty hard to guess total userbase size from things 
like mailing lists & GitHub. 



Maybe we can ask the NSA - don't they know everything?

:-)

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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[Paul Scott]

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 08:10:03AM -0700, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 06:15:55PM +1000, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> > Greetings All,
> > 
> > I am wondering how large the lilypond end user community is. Are there
> > any estimates?
> > 
> > Additional to this, I am wondering what the breakdown is by computer
> > platform, for example, how many people use Fedora, and so on.
> [...]
> 
> I use lilypond regularly, on Debian GNU/Linux (unstable).

That's exactly my setup.  I use Emacs.

Paul


> 
> 
> T
> 
> -- 
> Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.
> 
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> 


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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[Steve Lacy]

Not that this is any indication of install userbase, but there are 117
repositories on GitHub that match "language:LilyPond"

https://github.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=language%3ALilyPond

Additionally, there are 90 people subscribed to the LilyPond subreddit on
reddit.com:

http://reddit.com/r/lilypond

Bitbucket shows zero repositories under "Language:Lilypond"  (
https://bitbucket.org/repo/all?name=&language=lilypond)

To really get a true measure of userbase, the best thing would be to modify
lilypond itself to send a simple web request to something akin to Google
Analytics, and track those numbers.  It could even be "one in a thousand
times" or something similar.  Of course, this isn't going to ever collect
data for people working offline, etc.

Otherwise, it's going to be pretty hard to guess total userbase size from
things like mailing lists & GitHub.

>From doing some web searches, I think there's a fairly significant use of
LilyPond as "Something a little nicer than ABC that we use to engrave our
church/choir/band's music"  Unfortunately, I think MuseScore probably has a
much bigger userbase for that use case though...

Steve


On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Jean-Charles Malahieude  wrote:

> Le 12/05/2015 17:18, Shane Brandes a écrit :
>
>> I agree no useful way to make a solid conclusion on numbers. I also
>> know several people that use Lilypond but either don't need the
>> functionality to the point they need to be here on this list or don't
>> want to have the clutter in their inbox and simply google how to do
>> things.
>>
>>
> There also are people who, as non English speaker, have not subscribed to
> this list but to others in their language, like French, German or Spanish.
>
> Cheers,
> Jean-Charles
>
>
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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[H. S. Teoh]

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 11:18:02AM -0400, Shane Brandes wrote:
> I agree no useful way to make a solid conclusion on numbers. I also
> know several people that use Lilypond but either don't need the
> functionality to the point they need to be here on this list or don't
> want to have the clutter in their inbox and simply google how to do
> things.
[...]

I agree, I did not subscribe to this list until I ran into a problem
that I didn't know how to solve just by reading the manuals and/or
googling for the solution.


T

-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.

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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[Jean-Charles Malahieude]

Le 12/05/2015 17:18, Shane Brandes a écrit :

I agree no useful way to make a solid conclusion on numbers. I also
know several people that use Lilypond but either don't need the
functionality to the point they need to be here on this list or don't
want to have the clutter in their inbox and simply google how to do
things.



There also are people who, as non English speaker, have not subscribed 
to this list but to others in their language, like French, German or 
Spanish.


Cheers,
Jean-Charles

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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[Shane Brandes]

I agree no useful way to make a solid conclusion on numbers. I also
know several people that use Lilypond but either don't need the
functionality to the point they need to be here on this list or don't
want to have the clutter in their inbox and simply google how to do
things.

Shane

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 7:53 AM, Federico Bruni  wrote:
> Il giorno mar 12 mag 2015 alle 12:23, Andrew Bernard
>  ha scritto:
>
> I am just thinking out aloud that maybe fixing the Fedora issue my be my way
> of starting to contribute to the development, and the question arose while
> reflecting whether working in this area is a worthwhile effort.
>
>
> I think that it's a worthwhile effort. Fedora has many users and it would be
> my second choice if I had time to play with different distros :-)
>
> See also this issue:
> https://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=4272
>
>
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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[H. S. Teoh]

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 06:15:55PM +1000, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> Greetings All,
> 
> I am wondering how large the lilypond end user community is. Are there
> any estimates?
> 
> Additional to this, I am wondering what the breakdown is by computer
> platform, for example, how many people use Fedora, and so on.
[...]

I use lilypond regularly, on Debian GNU/Linux (unstable).


T

-- 
Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

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Re: lilypond fingeringOrientations spanner?

[Schneidy]

Hi All,

I quickly come back here just to say that I've added this snippet: 
http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=999

Cheers,
Pierre



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Re: Guitar bends together with slides

[Martyn Quick]

Yes - it's combining a legato slide with a bend that is the problem.  
Fortunately, I've been sent a lovely set of code by Stephen MacNeil that does a 
great job at handling guitar music.
Martyn

  From: Federico Bruni 
 To: Martyn Quick  
Cc: "lilypond-user@gnu.org"  
 Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2015, 7:49
 Subject: Re: Guitar bends together with slides
   
Il giorno lun 11 mag 2015 alle 18:03, Martyn Quick 


 ha scritto:
> For those of us who use Lilypond to typeset guitar music, we are 
> aware that one has to apply some slightly dirty tricks to make bends 
> work together with hammer-on/pull-offs.  This is well established, 
> can be found referred to in the documentation for the guitar bends 
> code, and has been discussed on this list.
> 
> What about combining bends with slides?  Essentially one needs to do 
> the same sort of thing, so I guess one would have to use hidden 
> notes, adjust the shape of the slurs, but also do something with the 
> glissando notation.  Any advice?

Yes, IIUC your question it's just the same issue.
I can't see any specific problem with \glissando. The problem is when 
you have a legato slide, which uses \glissando *and* slurs.

This works fine:

\version "2.19.16"
\include "notation-snippets/guitar-string-bending/definitions.ily"

\paper {
  ragged-last = ##f
}

music = \relative c' {
  \bendOn
  d8( dis) \glissando e4\2 r2 |
  R1
}

\score {
  \new StaffGroup <<
    \new Staff <<
      \new Voice { \clef "G_8" \music }
    >>
    \new TabStaff <<
      \new TabVoice { \clef "moderntab" \music }
    >>
  >>
}






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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[Federico Bruni]

Il giorno mar 12 mag 2015 alle 12:23, Andrew Bernard 
 ha scritto:
I am just thinking out aloud that maybe fixing the Fedora issue my be 
my way of starting to contribute to the development, and the question 
arose while reflecting whether working in this area is a worthwhile 
effort.


I think that it's a worthwhile effort. Fedora has many users and it 
would be my second choice if I had time to play with different distros 
:-)


See also this issue:
https://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=4272


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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[Stephen MacNeil]

Hey Andrew I use LFS -- have for years. I HATE binary distros especially
ubuntu and it's variants. That said i know several (as a guitarist) sites
with forums that discuss lilypond - and the users are never here. As well I
personally know users that - again are not here. so really there is no way
to know - unless there was a (phone home) like Paul added to ardour --that
I disable :)

Stephen
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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[Werner LEMBERG]

> I am just thinking out aloud that maybe fixing the Fedora issue my
> be my way of starting to contribute to the development, and the
> question arose while reflecting whether working in this area is a
> worthwhile effort.

It's certainly worth the trouble!  It seems that the problem is
specific to Fedora, as another mail reports that it works just fine on
Debian.  So maybe comparing the two distro-specific bundles gives a
simple solution.

Thank you in advance for working on that :-)


Werner

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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[Michael Gerdau]

> For example, I am having difficulty with the standard binary distribution
> on Fedora 21, which will not compile files using fonts with large
> character sets such as Linux Libertine (defect report just submitted). I
> was led to muse that if there are only four or five people in the world
> using lilypond on Fedora 21, this sort of issue may never get fixed, for
> lack of audience numbers and developer resources.

I'm using ArchLinux and can't talk about Fedora.
However:
lilypond and denemo are in the standard ArchLinux package repository
Frescobaldi and lilypond-devel are in AUR which requires some additional
work to install these packages.

Frescobaldi currently has 68 votes to be included in standard which
I interpret as "there are at least 68 ArchLinux users using Frescobaldi
to do lilypond". Given that denemo is in standard there probably are
even more using that package. And there might be those that use emacs
or some other editor and the cmdline.

All of the above for ArchLinux alone :)

Having said that:
Do you have a small example to show your problem ?
I'd be willing to test that on ArchLinux standard and lilypond-devel
to see whether is works here.

Best wishes,
Michael
-- 
 Michael Gerdau   email: m...@qata.de
 GPG-keys available on request or at public keyserver

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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[Andrew Bernard]

As a clarification to my own post, there is no intention here to diminish the 
awesome work the of lilypond developers here at all. I am just thinking out 
aloud that maybe fixing the Fedora issue my be my way of starting to contribute 
to the development, and the question arose while reflecting whether working in 
this area is a worthwhile effort.

Andrew



On 12 May 2015 at 20:02:10, Andrew Bernard (andrew.bern...@gmail.com) wrote:


For example, I am having difficulty with the standard binary distribution on 
Fedora 21, which will not compile files using fonts with large character sets 
such as Linux Libertine (defect report just submitted). I was led to muse that 
if there are only four or five people in the world using lilypond on Fedora 21, 
this sort of issue may never get fixed, for lack of audience numbers and 
developer resources.

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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[Andrew Bernard]

Yes, perhaps the question was poorly thought out, in terms of what defines a 
user, but it is interesting.

For example, I am having difficulty with the standard binary distribution on 
Fedora 21, which will not compile files using fonts with large character sets 
such as Linux Libertine (defect report just submitted). I was led to muse that 
if there are only four or five people in the world using lilypond on Fedora 21, 
this sort of issue may never get fixed, for lack of audience numbers and 
developer resources.

Andrew



On 12 May 2015 at 19:00:30, Martin Tarenskeen (m.tarensk...@zonnet.nl) wrote:



On Tue, 12 May 2015, Andrew Bernard wrote: 

How many people read this mailing list? That would be a better estimation 
than "how many people have lilypond installed". It's very easy to install 
free software, especially if it automatically comes with your 
standard Linux distribution. The next step - learning how to use LilyPond 
and then really use it? 

It's an interesting question. 

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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[Martin Tarenskeen]

On Tue, 12 May 2015, Andrew Bernard wrote:


Greetings All,

I am wondering how large the lilypond end user community is. Are there any
estimates?


How many people read this mailing list? That would be a better estimation 
than "how many people have lilypond installed". It's very easy to install 
free software, especially if it automatically comes with your 
standard Linux distribution. The next step - learning how to use LilyPond 
and then really use it?


It's an interesting question.

--

MT

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Re: How many lilypond users are there?

[Phil Holmes]

It's pretty much impossible to say with any degree of accuracy.  How do you 
define what constitutes "the community"?  Someone who uses lily every day?  
Someone who downloads every update?  Someone who once used the version 
auto-installed on their distro?

We do have Google analytics on the site, and so I can say that, in the last 
month, 1.04K people moved from the download page to the Windows page, 568 to 
MacOS and 235 to Unix.  In the same period we had 84K pageviews and Google 
claims 19K "users".

--
Phil Holmes


  - Original Message - 
  From: Andrew Bernard 
  To: lilypond-user Mailinglist 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 9:15 AM
  Subject: How many lilypond users are there?


  Greetings All,


  I am wondering how large the lilypond end user community is. Are there any 
estimates?


  Additional to this, I am wondering what the breakdown is by computer 
platform, for example, how many people use Fedora, and so on.


  Andrew








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How many lilypond users are there?

[Andrew Bernard]

Greetings All,

I am wondering how large the lilypond end user community is. Are there any 
estimates?

Additional to this, I am wondering what the breakdown is by computer platform, 
for example, how many people use Fedora, and so on.

Andrew



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