Re: Identify included files

[Urs Liska]

Am 15. Mai 2020 03:21:55 MESZ schrieb "Fr. Samuel Springuel" 
:
>Before I start writing a script to do this, is there an existing tool
>which will identify all the `\include` files that a LilyPond file
>depends on?  Even better, one that will work in a recursive fashion?

I know of Frescobaldi and lyluatex that have implemented thus recursive search.

Urs 

>
>✝✝
>Fr. Samuel, OSB
>(R. Padraic Springuel)
>St. Anselm’s Abbey
>4501 South Dakota Ave, NE
>Washington, DC, 20017
>202-269-2300
>(c) 202-853-7036
>
>PAX ☧ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ

-- 
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.

Identify included files

[Fr. Samuel Springuel]

Before I start writing a script to do this, is there an existing tool which 
will identify all the `\include` files that a LilyPond file depends on?  Even 
better, one that will work in a recursive fashion?

✝✝
Fr. Samuel, OSB
(R. Padraic Springuel)
St. Anselm’s Abbey
4501 South Dakota Ave, NE
Washington, DC, 20017
202-269-2300
(c) 202-853-7036

PAX ☧ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ

Re: Chordname - fret-diagram line - in different order

[peter]

> "Rita" == Rita Composer  writes:


Rita> Thank you.  The problem is, that I put the fret diagram with
Rita> markup  Because I don't want all the chords to be seen in
Rita> fret diagram...just the special ones

What I'd do is put the chord diagrams separate from the rest of the
score.

Create another score separate from the main score, with just the
chords you want.

Something like this:

specialChords =  \chordmode {
  a:4 
}
\score {
  <<
\context ChordNames \specialChords
\context FretBoards \specialChords
  >>
  
  \layout {
\context {
  \FretBoards
  stringTunings = #guitar-tuning
}
  }
}


Peter C

Re: Suggestion to make sharps and flats persistent

[antlists]

On 14/05/2020 23:38, Karlin High wrote:

On 5/14/2020 5:32 PM, antlists wrote:
Because Americans like to think they speak English (but they are 
mistaken!). I play crotchets, not quarter-notes. I don't know what 
other weird language habits the Americans have ... :-)


You really don't know? I'm almost certain you'd have some good guesses, 
though. ;-)


I'm sure they'd love to table our eraser ... :-)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Suggestion to make sharps and flats persistent

[Karlin High]

On 5/14/2020 5:32 PM, antlists wrote:
Because Americans like to think they speak English (but they are 
mistaken!). I play crotchets, not quarter-notes. I don't know what other 
weird language habits the Americans have ... :-)


You really don't know? I'm almost certain you'd have some good guesses, 
though. ;-)

--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

Re: Suggestion to make sharps and flats persistent

[antlists]

On 14/05/2020 19:46, David Wright wrote:

Wol gave these "b" people the benefit of the doubt as being "b/h"
people (but why was the American tongue mentioned?).


Because Americans like to think they speak English (but they are 
mistaken!). I play crotchets, not quarter-notes. I don't know what other 
weird language habits the Americans have ... :-)


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Suggestion to make sharps and flats persistent

[David Kastrup]

David Nalesnik  writes:

> I can really only speak of the Midwest, and of undergraduate music
> students.  It is my observation that the habit of calling F-sharps "F"
> goes along with mistakes in sight-reading and in chord spelling.

Let's talk about sharps in order not to think b/h is involved.  I think
it is noteworthy that you can ask "is the F sharp?" in English, but
there is no way you could ask "Ist das F ein Fis?" in German in the same
way.  You can ask that question, but it is like "Is David actually
Paul?" rather than "Is David David Nalesnik?".  Basically the question
is not asking for what kind of F is there but whether mistakenly F had
been written instead of F sharp.

-- 
David Kastrup

Re: Suggestion to make sharps and flats persistent

[David Nalesnik]

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 1:47 PM David Wright  wrote:
>
> On Thu 14 May 2020 at 10:38:59 (+0200), Hans Åberg wrote:
> > > On 14 May 2020, at 03:38, David Wright  wrote:
> > >
> > > I can't say that I've met
> > > English speakers in either the UK or US who use b and h for Bflat and B.
> > > Under what circumstances do you hear it: amateur choirs and orchestral
> > > players, professionals, or in academic duscussions of German music?
> >
> > In general, there is a divide in musical notation in Europe, one is 
> > Germany, and to the north and south and east, and the other, the countries 
> > to the west, France, England, etc.
> >
> > One difference is the note names, H and B in the Germanic tradition [1], 
> > and J.S. Bach used it [2].
>
> Thank you, very useful.
>
> On Thu 14 May 2020 at 07:45:23 (-0500), David Nalesnik wrote:
> > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 8:39 PM David Wright  
> > wrote:
> > > On Wed 13 May 2020 at 16:35:48 (-0500), David Nalesnik wrote:
> > > > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:34 PM antlists  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > On 13/05/2020 16:38, David Kastrup wrote:
> > > > > > Given the number of English-speaking LilyPond users who all share 
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > somewhat strange habit of calling a b-flat "b" if there is a flat 
> > > > > > in the
> > > > > > key signature, it is sort of a safe bet that you are not the first 
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > make this kind of proposal.
> > > > >
> > > > > Are these the same ones who call b an h?
> > > > >
> > > > > Certainly for someone who's mother tongue is English (NOT American) 
> > > > > I'd
> > > > > never call b-flat a b because how would I tell whether it's flat or 
> > > > > not :-)
> > > >
> > > > ! hear it a lot in the US.  (And it's often correlated with losing
> > > > sight of the key signature...)
> > >
> > > Assuming ! stands for "I" and not negation, I can't say that I've met
> > > English speakers in either the UK or US who use b and h for Bflat and B.
> > > Under what circumstances do you hear it: amateur choirs and orchestral
> > > players, professionals, or in academic duscussions of German music?
> >
> > Hi David Wright,
> >
> > Once again the name "David" rears its head!  You are mixing my
> > response with David Kastrup's
>
> I think I would have as much difficulty doing that as my email client would.
>
> AIUI David Kastrup lives in Germany, in b/h land, but without any
> context, I don't know whether this meant that he thought
> English-speaking LilyPond users were steeped in the Germanic
> tradition, or just being polite¹, confused², confusing³, or
> just plain incompetent (perhaps implied by "strange habit").

I know that David Kastrup has commented more fully on this topic on
this list before.
>
> Wol gave these "b" people the benefit of the doubt as being "b/h"
> people (but why was the American tongue mentioned?).

I think the choice of b and b-fIat has something to do with the
confusing nature of this thread.  I read Wol's comment about calling
b-flat "b" as a reflection on speakers of English, nothing to "b" and
"h" in German.   David Kastrup's observation about the "somewhat
strange habit of calling a b-flat 'b' if there is a flat in the
key signature" likewise--nothing to do with German practice.
>
> When you, David Nalesnik, wrote "! hear it a lot in the US",
> I wondered where, specifically. I think the main difference
> over here is note and rest lengths. As you might gather from
> the combination of my email domain and my timezone (and yours),
> I take an interest in such differences, even if only as
> post-rehearsal pub-chat⁴.
>

I can really only speak of the Midwest, and of undergraduate music
students.  It is my observation that the habit of calling F-sharps "F"
goes along with mistakes in sight-reading and in chord spelling.

> So I was perplexed by your post about my mixing up your response with
> David K's. Perhaps you might explain the referent of "it", if it's
> not ‘calling a b-flat "b"’.

Sorry!  I misinterpreted you and only added to the confusion!

> Cheers,
> David.

RE: Suggestion to make sharps and flats persistent

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Gentlepersons,

Without the "h" would we have Liszt's Fantasy and Fugue on BACH or Schumann's 
Six Fugues on  BACH?

Mark

-Original Message-
From: lilypond-user [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] 
On Behalf Of David Wright
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 11:46 AM
To: Hans Åberg ; David Nalesnik 
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Suggestion to make sharps and flats persistent

On Thu 14 May 2020 at 10:38:59 (+0200), Hans Åberg wrote:
> > On 14 May 2020, at 03:38, David Wright  wrote:
> > 
> > I can't say that I've met
> > English speakers in either the UK or US who use b and h for Bflat and B.
> > Under what circumstances do you hear it: amateur choirs and 
> > orchestral players, professionals, or in academic duscussions of German 
> > music?
> 
> In general, there is a divide in musical notation in Europe, one is Germany, 
> and to the north and south and east, and the other, the countries to the 
> west, France, England, etc.
> 
> One difference is the note names, H and B in the Germanic tradition [1], and 
> J.S. Bach used it [2].

Thank you, very useful.

On Thu 14 May 2020 at 07:45:23 (-0500), David Nalesnik wrote:
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 8:39 PM David Wright  
> wrote:
> > On Wed 13 May 2020 at 16:35:48 (-0500), David Nalesnik wrote:
> > > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:34 PM antlists  wrote:
> > > > On 13/05/2020 16:38, David Kastrup wrote:
> > > > > Given the number of English-speaking LilyPond users who all 
> > > > > share the somewhat strange habit of calling a b-flat "b" if 
> > > > > there is a flat in the key signature, it is sort of a safe bet 
> > > > > that you are not the first to make this kind of proposal.
> > > >
> > > > Are these the same ones who call b an h?
> > > >
> > > > Certainly for someone who's mother tongue is English (NOT 
> > > > American) I'd never call b-flat a b because how would I tell 
> > > > whether it's flat or not :-)
> > >
> > > ! hear it a lot in the US.  (And it's often correlated with losing 
> > > sight of the key signature...)
> >
> > Assuming ! stands for "I" and not negation, I can't say that I've 
> > met English speakers in either the UK or US who use b and h for Bflat and B.
> > Under what circumstances do you hear it: amateur choirs and 
> > orchestral players, professionals, or in academic duscussions of German 
> > music?
> 
> Hi David Wright,
> 
> Once again the name "David" rears its head!  You are mixing my 
> response with David Kastrup's

I think I would have as much difficulty doing that as my email client would.

AIUI David Kastrup lives in Germany, in b/h land, but without any context, I 
don't know whether this meant that he thought English-speaking LilyPond users 
were steeped in the Germanic tradition, or just being polite¹, confused², 
confusing³, or just plain incompetent (perhaps implied by "strange habit").

Wol gave these "b" people the benefit of the doubt as being "b/h"
people (but why was the American tongue mentioned?).

When you, David Nalesnik, wrote "! hear it a lot in the US", I wondered where, 
specifically. I think the main difference over here is note and rest lengths. 
As you might gather from the combination of my email domain and my timezone 
(and yours), I take an interest in such differences, even if only as 
post-rehearsal pub-chat⁴.

So I was perplexed by your post about my mixing up your response with David 
K's. Perhaps you might explain the referent of "it", if it's not ‘calling a 
b-flat "b"’.

¹ When in Rome …
² Accidentally switching between bf/b and b/h inappropriately.
³ Calling notes by staff position without regard to key signature.
⁴ Assuming we sing again and pubs are still in business.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Suggestion to make sharps and flats persistent

[David Wright]

On Thu 14 May 2020 at 10:38:59 (+0200), Hans Åberg wrote:
> > On 14 May 2020, at 03:38, David Wright  wrote:
> > 
> > I can't say that I've met
> > English speakers in either the UK or US who use b and h for Bflat and B.
> > Under what circumstances do you hear it: amateur choirs and orchestral
> > players, professionals, or in academic duscussions of German music?
> 
> In general, there is a divide in musical notation in Europe, one is Germany, 
> and to the north and south and east, and the other, the countries to the 
> west, France, England, etc.
> 
> One difference is the note names, H and B in the Germanic tradition [1], and 
> J.S. Bach used it [2].

Thank you, very useful.

On Thu 14 May 2020 at 07:45:23 (-0500), David Nalesnik wrote:
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 8:39 PM David Wright  
> wrote:
> > On Wed 13 May 2020 at 16:35:48 (-0500), David Nalesnik wrote:
> > > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:34 PM antlists  wrote:
> > > > On 13/05/2020 16:38, David Kastrup wrote:
> > > > > Given the number of English-speaking LilyPond users who all share the
> > > > > somewhat strange habit of calling a b-flat "b" if there is a flat in 
> > > > > the
> > > > > key signature, it is sort of a safe bet that you are not the first to
> > > > > make this kind of proposal.
> > > >
> > > > Are these the same ones who call b an h?
> > > >
> > > > Certainly for someone who's mother tongue is English (NOT American) I'd
> > > > never call b-flat a b because how would I tell whether it's flat or not 
> > > > :-)
> > >
> > > ! hear it a lot in the US.  (And it's often correlated with losing
> > > sight of the key signature...)
> >
> > Assuming ! stands for "I" and not negation, I can't say that I've met
> > English speakers in either the UK or US who use b and h for Bflat and B.
> > Under what circumstances do you hear it: amateur choirs and orchestral
> > players, professionals, or in academic duscussions of German music?
> 
> Hi David Wright,
> 
> Once again the name "David" rears its head!  You are mixing my
> response with David Kastrup's

I think I would have as much difficulty doing that as my email client would.

AIUI David Kastrup lives in Germany, in b/h land, but without any
context, I don't know whether this meant that he thought
English-speaking LilyPond users were steeped in the Germanic
tradition, or just being polite¹, confused², confusing³, or
just plain incompetent (perhaps implied by "strange habit").

Wol gave these "b" people the benefit of the doubt as being "b/h"
people (but why was the American tongue mentioned?).

When you, David Nalesnik, wrote "! hear it a lot in the US",
I wondered where, specifically. I think the main difference
over here is note and rest lengths. As you might gather from
the combination of my email domain and my timezone (and yours),
I take an interest in such differences, even if only as
post-rehearsal pub-chat⁴.

So I was perplexed by your post about my mixing up your response with
David K's. Perhaps you might explain the referent of "it", if it's
not ‘calling a b-flat "b"’.

¹ When in Rome …
² Accidentally switching between bf/b and b/h inappropriately.
³ Calling notes by staff position without regard to key signature.
⁴ Assuming we sing again and pubs are still in business.

Cheers,
David.

Re: [OT] Camp David (was "Re: Suggestion to make sharps and flats persistent")

[Kevin Cole]

And this, of course, reminds me of...

(Soft knocks at the door)
CHONG: Who is it?
CHEECH: It's me, Dave. Open up, man, I got the stuff.
(More knocks)
CHONG: Who is it?
CHEECH: It's me, Dave, man. Open up, I got the stuff.
CHONG: Who?
CHEECH: It's, Dave, man. Open up, I think the cops saw me come in here.
(More knocks)
CHONG: Who is it?
CHEECH: It's, Dave, man. Will you open up, I got the stuff with me.
CHONG: Who?
CHEECH: Dave, man. Open up.
CHONG: Dave?
CHEECH: Yeah, Dave. C'mon, man, open up, I think the cops saw me.
CHONG: Dave's not here.
CHEECH: No, man, I'm Dave, man.
(Sharp knocks at the door)
CHEECH: Hey, c'mon, man.
CHONG: Who is it?
CHEECH: It's Dave, man. Will you open up? I got the stuff with me.
CHONG: Who?
CHEECH: Dave, man. Open up.
CHONG: Dave?
CHEECH: Yeah, Dave.
CHONG: Dave's not here.
CHEECH: What the hell? No, man, I am Dave, man. Will you...
(More knocks)
CHEECH: C'mon! Open up the door, will you? I got the stuff with me, I
think the cops saw me.
CHONG: Who is it?
CHEECH: Oh, what the hell is it... c'mon. Open up the door! It's Dave!
CHONG: Who?
CHEECH: Dave! D-A-V-E! Will you open up the goddam door!
CHONG: Dave?
CHEECH: Yeah, Dave!
CHONG: Dave?
CHEECH: Right, man. Dave. Now will you open up the door?
CHONG: Dave's not here

Re: [OT] Camp David (was "Re: Suggestion to make sharps and flats persistent")

[Karlin High]

On 5/14/2020 8:12 AM, Kieren MacMillan wrote:

If I remember correctly, there were 16 Davids (17, if you count the counselor).


Only 6 more, and they could have had an enactment of the Dr. Seuss "Too 
Many Daves" poem.



--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

[OT] Camp David (was "Re: Suggestion to make sharps and flats persistent")

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi David(s),

> Once again the name "David" rears its head!  You are mixing my
> response with David Kastrup's
> 
> This all reminds me of my undergraduate days in the late 80s/early
> 90s.  I remember feeling a little affronted by a flyer for a party
> that started "Hey Dave!" since of course I turned to look...  There
> were so many "Davids" on campus.  (Apparently it was the most common
> US name in my birth year.)

I attended the Interlochen Arts Camp. One summer, in the late 1970s (before my 
time there), the office manager in the High School Boys Division decided to 
play a joke on a cabin counselor named David: they filled his cabin entirely 
with campers named David! If I remember correctly, there were 16 Davids (17, if 
you count the counselor). They called it "Camp David". There’s still a board 
mounted in that cabin signed by all the Davids.

Cheers,
Kieren.

Re: Suggestion to make sharps and flats persistent

[David Nalesnik]

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 8:39 PM David Wright  wrote:
>
> On Wed 13 May 2020 at 16:35:48 (-0500), David Nalesnik wrote:
> > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:34 PM antlists  wrote:
> > >
> > > On 13/05/2020 16:38, David Kastrup wrote:
> > > > Given the number of English-speaking LilyPond users who all share the
> > > > somewhat strange habit of calling a b-flat "b" if there is a flat in the
> > > > key signature, it is sort of a safe bet that you are not the first to
> > > > make this kind of proposal.
> > >
> > > Are these the same ones who call b an h?
> > >
> > > Certainly for someone who's mother tongue is English (NOT American) I'd
> > > never call b-flat a b because how would I tell whether it's flat or not 
> > > :-)
> > >
> >
> > ! hear it a lot in the US.  (And it's often correlated with losing
> > sight of the key signature...)
>
> Assuming ! stands for "I" and not negation, I can't say that I've met
> English speakers in either the UK or US who use b and h for Bflat and B.
> Under what circumstances do you hear it: amateur choirs and orchestral
> players, professionals, or in academic duscussions of German music?
>
> Cheers,
> David.

Hi David Wright,

Once again the name "David" rears its head!  You are mixing my
response with David Kastrup's

This all reminds me of my undergraduate days in the late 80s/early
90s.  I remember feeling a little affronted by a flyer for a party
that started "Hey Dave!" since of course I turned to look...  There
were so many "Davids" on campus.  (Apparently it was the most common
US name in my birth year.)

Best,
David Nalesnik

Re: Suggestion to make sharps and flats persistent

[Hans Åberg]

> On 14 May 2020, at 03:38, David Wright  wrote:
> 
> I can't say that I've met
> English speakers in either the UK or US who use b and h for Bflat and B.
> Under what circumstances do you hear it: amateur choirs and orchestral
> players, professionals, or in academic duscussions of German music?

In general, there is a divide in musical notation in Europe, one is Germany, 
and to the north and south and east, and the other, the countries to the west, 
France, England, etc.

One difference is the note names, H and B in the Germanic tradition [1], and 
J.S. Bach used it [2].

Another is how to name meters, duple and triple.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_(musical_note)
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BACH_motif