Re: Replies to the list

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 04:25:04PM -0500, Tim McNamara wrote:
> Is there a reason that the reply-to header is not set for the
> mailing list?

Just hit "reply to all".

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Documentation for LilyPond - translation into czech language

[Graham Percival]

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:52:12AM +, Pavel Fric wrote:
> I started to work on lilypond-learning-big-page.cs.html

Unfortunately the .html files are generated automatically, so all
of the translations you have made must be moved into another file.
Please see:
http://lilypond.org/website/development.html
in particular, the Contributor's Guide 4.8 Translating the
documentation.

Francisco Vila (cc'd on this email) is the Translation Meister; it
is his job to guide you through the process.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Help with my Lilypond-Latex issue

[Graham Percival]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:43:59PM -0700, Marc Schonbrun wrote:
> You are a gentleman and a scholar! It worked! Thank you so very much. 

I'm also infamously grumpy, and you just top-posted.  And forgot
to CC the mailing list.

> Now -- can I do that globally somewhere so I don't have to do it at each 
> example? Would seem as though I don't want ragged-right as all my examples 
> are 1-system files like this. 

Search and replace:
  \lilypondfile[
with:
  \lilypondfile[ragged-right=#f,
or something like that.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Help with my Lilypond-Latex issue

[Graham Percival]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 09:16:21PM -0700, Marc Schonbrun wrote:
> So, all of a sudden, my example is smaller and no longer taking up the entire 
> width of the page. I'd like to find a way to get this to look right without 
> having to add extra code to each example (since each example is almost 
> exactly the same thing). 

ragged-right is now enabled by default for 1-system files.  Add
\paper{
  ragged-right=##f
}

(or maybe \layout if you're in lilypond-book; I can't remember if
that matters)

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: [OT] tempo detection experiment (using lilypond!)

[Graham Percival]

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 03:44:26PM -0400, Mike Blackstock wrote:
> Hey, it's excellent I think. I say 'I think' cause I'm on a library
> computer and it's hard to judge the 'travel' of the keys and when they
> hit the bed so to speak and there's no sound.. Is there suppose to be
> a metronome sound?

There are three metronome settings:
- visual (default)
- audio
- none

You can switch between these on the main "game options" screen.
For technical reasons, you cannot have both visual and audio at
the same time.

> Nevertheless, I was getting around 98% so there's room from improvement.
> (In me - not the program). I see I start slightly ahead of the beat,
> then catch up, then slightly behind.

To quote the "help" for this experiment:  (upper-right corner of
the game)
--
Rhythm Grade: This is an approximate grade for how well your
rhythms fit into your tempo. This grade calculation is known to be
incorrect in some circumstances — testing a better way of grading
exercises will be my next experiment. :) 
--


I wrote a bunch of extra information about the algorithm and my
future plans in this email, but I've now deleted it -- the
information might "taint" people doing the experiment.  If you'd
like to discuss it more, please wait until 1 Oct 2010, then ask
away.  :)

Cheers,
- Graham

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[OT] tempo detection experiment (using lilypond!)

[Graham Percival]

Hey guys,

As many of you know, I've been working on educational games to
help music students practice rhythms and intonation.  Well, I'm
finally ready to begin tests of aspects of these programs; the
first test is to detect the tempo of a student-performed rhythm.

I've written an online flash game for rhythms.  The game presents
you with a rhythm and metronome, and you're supposed to tap the
rhythm on your keyboard.

http://percival-music.ca/tempo/

Of course, since this game is supposed to be useful for students,
you could try tapping the wrong rhythm – ignore the metronome, add
an extra note, hold a few notes for twice as long as you should...
make whatever mistakes you think a student might make!  Or, if
you're not a professional musician, you could just try to perform
the rhythms correctly, and let the mistakes happen naturally.  :)

Information about your gameplay will be automatically sent to me
and used to improve the tempo detection.  No names or personal
information is recorded; I have no idea who is playing the game.
Details of the information gathered is available on the website.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Temporary staff

[Graham Percival]

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 05:25:16PM +0200, TheBachMan wrote:
>I use Lilypond for some time now, and I often find my answers in the
>documentation (very well done), the LSR and on the French mailing-list,
>very active!
> 
>A bass line that splits into two with braces and returns on a single line.

The English (or maybe Italian?) term for this is "ossia".  If you
search in the normal places for "ossia", you'll find a few
different ways of doing what you want.  NR 1.6.x comes to mind,
but a LSR search will also give you a solution.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: LilyPond Report 19

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, Aug 09, 2010 at 02:00:16PM -0500, Music Teacher wrote:
> Hi Mr Percival,
> 
> Where are the “grumpy-and-fluffy” editors?

I'm the grumpy editor, and Valentin is the fluffy editor.

Cheers,
- Graham

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LilyPond Report 19

[Graham Percival]

The LilyPond Report is back, with its two “grumpy-and-fluffy”
editors! This issue contains some conference news, along with the
regular release news, snippet of the report, news from the frog
pond, and the bug report of the report! 

Come read LilyPond Report 19 now; comments and contributions are
warmly encouraged! 

http://news.lilynet.net/The-LilyPond-Report-19

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Lilypond performance

[Graham Percival]

On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 10:54:01PM +0200, Xavier Scheuer wrote:
> On 6 August 2010 22:31, Graham Percival  wrote:
> >
> > There's a section in the Learning manual called "speeding up
> > lilypond", or something like that.  This sounds like a good place
> > to look.
> 
> Are you speaking of LM 4.6.5 Avoiding tweaks with slower processing ?

Oops, probably.  Ok, I misremembered it.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Lilypond performance

[Graham Percival]

On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 05:26:15AM -0700, ornello wrote:
> In my installation, Lilypond runtime seems to increase exponentially (at
> least not linearly) with the number of pages to engrave. Is there any option
> to speed up Lilypond, e.g. by removing time-consuming engravers, such that
> the performance only increases (almost) linearly with the number of pages?
 
There's a section in the Learning manual called "speeding up
lilypond", or something like that.  This sounds like a good place
to look.

(I don't know how up-to-date the page is, however)

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: no line for textspanner

[Graham Percival]

On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 06:01:15PM +0100, James wrote:
> (seems an awful lot of work to just change a few lines in a snippet  
> though :( ).

The idea is if we add a convert-ly rule, then any user files which
include the old syntax can be automatically updated.  The focus
here is on the end-user, not the docs.

Cheers,
- Grhaam

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Re: Beam settings in 2.13.29

[Graham Percival]

On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 1:30 AM, Nick Payne  wrote:
> p.s. The search function in the 2.13 online doc searches the wrong version.

p.s. http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1171

- Graham

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Re: Lilypond Architectural Overview Request

[Graham Percival]

On Tue, Aug 03, 2010 at 10:22:05PM -0400, jim.showalter wrote:
> I have been reviewing the online manuals and am having trouble finding
> documentation that describes the overall architecture of the Lilypond
> system.

If you're looking at the 2.13 docs,
http://lilypond.org/website/development.html
then what info we have written down is in Extending and the
programming section of the Contributor's Guide.  Both are on that
page.

If you have a specific question, somebody might have a specific
answer.  If you want to volunteer to write such a document, then
let's talk.  If you want to complain that Extending doesn't
explain a lot, then don't bother.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: In parts but not in the score

[Graham Percival]

On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 12:44:42AM -0700, Jayaratna wrote:
> 
> I am copying a score because I need to make parts: I need to put some texts
> and other marks on single parts but I would like them not to appear on every
> line of the score, but just at the top of each group. Any suggestion about
> how this can be done without making two different files for each instrument?

This is done with \mark .  See the Text chapter for details.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: random music

[Graham Percival]

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 06:14:38PM -0400, Mike Blackstock wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 12:02 AM, Graham Percival
>  wrote:
> 
> > You might be interested in the second chapter of my Masters
> > thesis, which is about using Strasheela to create
> Wow, thx. Is it online?

http://percival-music.ca

I think it's under /research/, but just go to the main website and
it's easy to find.

Cheers,
- Graham



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Re: random music

[Graham Percival]

On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 03:47:26PM -0400, Mike Blackstock wrote:
> Me too I've long been interested in this; I'd like to be able to
> generate endless sight-reading exercises/material for guitarists,
> perhaps in the form of duos with the computer playing one of the parts
> just to keep things interesting. I've downloaded but haven't yet
> looked at Strasheela
> (http://strasheela.sourceforge.net/strasheela/doc/index.html),
> thinking it might be something useful for such a project. Plus I think
> Graham has expertise in it.

You might be interested in the second chapter of my Masters
thesis, which is about using Strasheela to create
not-quite-endless sight-reqading exercises for rhythms (general
musicians) and intonation (for beginning violinsts).

I wrote the thesis for a general audience of computer scientists
and musicians, so the mathematics (which is fairly simple... say,
first-year CS) is fairly isolated and easy to skip over if you're
not interested in the proofs.


There's of course the possibility of using that system to create
truly "endless" exercises by continually grading the exercises
(chapters 3+4) and feeding that back into the exercise generation.
The current "weakest link" in such a system is the grading --
giving a meaningful grade to even something as simple as a 4/4
rhythm with 4th and 8th notes is non-trivial.  I hope to have the
beginning of musically-meaningful grading for such rhythms in a
year or so.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: random music

[Graham Percival]

On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 06:17:51PM +0200, Martin Tarenskeen wrote:
> But thinking about this little project I was wondering: Would it be  
> possible to write a lilypond input file, using just pure Lilypond syntax  
> and some Scheme magick, that would produce a different score each time 
> you process it with Lilypond? I don't know much about scheme programming, 
> but a short google search tells me it has some support for random 
> numbers.

There is already a snippet like this in LSR.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: fermata not shown at playing parts

[Graham Percival]

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 11:10:35PM -0600, Carl Sorensen wrote:
> 
> On 7/16/10 9:49 AM, "Graham Percival"  wrote:
> 
> > The docs already say to use \fermata !
> 
> But in the Expressive Marks section there is no text outside of an example
> that describes using fermata as an articulation.  (There is an index entry
> for \fermata, however).

http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1189

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: OT: Discussion with developer on documentation

[Graham Percival]

I'm probably the ideal person, but I'm away at a music camp for
the next week, so will have very little time.  If this request
could wait until the 26th, I'd have much more time.

The short answer is that we use texinfo, which has a few nice
parts but a few bad parts.  I think it's the best documentation
format for nicely-formatted pdfs and html output (at leats, that
seemed to be the case in 2008), but there *are* some really
annoying parts.

If you start looking at texinfo and try to think of specific
questions about how it might work with your project, I could give
more specific answers.  :)

Cheers,
- Graham Percival

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 12:13:02PM -0400, Arle Lommel wrote:
> Apologies for a question not directly related to Lilypond, but is there 
> anyone who works with the documentation for Lilypond on this list with whom I 
> could interact privately? I am working on a totally unrelated open-source 
> project and we we are faced with about 500 pages of legacy documentation in 
> Word that we need to port to the web in a more friendly format than Word. 
> Lilypond’s documentation seems like an ideal model for me, and I’d like to 
> get a better picture of what might be involved in order to arrive at that end.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Arle
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Re: Re: fermata not shown at playing parts

[Graham Percival]

The docs already say to use \fermata !

- Graham

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 10:18:56PM +0800, 胡海鹏 - Hu Haipeng wrote:
>Then you should add this to the doc in case of confusion to other people.
> 
>Regards
>Haipeng
> 
> 
> 
>  --
> 
>A:uIeOuOD--oIIo/O *Aa.NOEIa:O>>NuC,?'ouA:Ei 1/4thAd--L-?

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Re: large source occupying on myfinal composition

[Graham Percival]

There are some attempts to optimize the speed; one simple patch
reduces the time required by something like 40%.  But you should
expect such problems from an unstable development version.

Cheers,
- Graham

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 06:22:56PM +0800, 胡海鹏 - Hu Haipeng wrote:
>Hello,
>  I finally finish my concert overture, which has just 250 measures, 34
>pages. The compiling is a nightmare! When I used normal way, the computer
>turned into a circumstance like it was about to crash. Then I used Process
>Tamer, a small util program to reduce source wasting. At first, it's ok to
>do anything while compiling, but after 5 minutes, the computer again
>became very slow. Then I went away to listen to The Firebird. After its 45
>minutes' music, Lilypond was still compiling. I checked the task manager,
>and found it first used around 120M of RAM, but then continuous ascend to
>over 520M, and then fall to 330M, and up to 472... After another about 50
>minutes, The score was at last ready. The whole process took about 110
>minutes!!! I'd like to know why Lilypond should use such a large memory,
>since cpu is not taken too much (but instead, "system idle process.exe"
>took very large percent (up to 94%) of cpu). I think I must buy a Win7
>machine with 4 core cpu and 8gb RAM, otherwise I can't write a piece like
>The Firebird, which will burn my current machine into dust :-)
>Regards
>Haipeng
> 
>  --
> 
>A:uIeOuOD--oIIo/O *Aa.NOEIa:O>>NuC,?'ouA:Ei 1/4thAd--L-?

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Re: [doc] Notation 1.8.2: file .eps not found?

[Graham Percival]

Please post bug reports on the bug-lilypond list.

- Graham


On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 11:05:10PM +0200, Federico Bruni wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've found a small error in documentation.
> 
> In Notation 1.8.2, section "Graphic notation inside markup":
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13//Documentation/notation/formatting-text#graphic-notation-inside-markup
>  
> 
> 
> in the last example you can see that no image has been rendered and
> there's some blank space.
> 
> The snippet includes an .eps file:
> 
> \epsfile #X #10 #"./context-example.eps"
> 
> which is located in Documentation/pictures.
> Maybe ../context-example.eps would work?
> 
> But I have no idea about how the doc is built, so... you know what to
> do! :)
> 
> Cheers,
> Federico
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Downloading the Git repository

[Graham Percival]

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 09:03:22PM -0700, Patrick McCarty wrote:
> Fixed (it will be updated within an hour).
> 
> Keep in mind that the old site is not really maintained and the new
> site will be going live pretty soon, so it's not worth fixing too many
> old links.

Yeah, but it means that any remaining links from topdocs to the
other manuals will be broken.  I don't think that we have any such
links, but it's something worth looking at.

Added as
  http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1183
which is a type-build, priority-high... which means that there's
only a 10% chance that anybody will look at it in 2010.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: polymetric help

[Graham Percival]

On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 05:58:54PM +0100, Phil Holmes wrote:
> If you look in the Reference, section 5.1.4,

BTW, the preferred term is "Notation", since that matches the section
name in the new website:
http://lilypond.org/website/notation.html

> If you go back a section to 5.1.3 you'll see an alternative way of doing  
> this - by using a "\new Score"

For some reason or other, \new Score is not at all recommended and
is in the process of being removed from the docs.  It's a medium
or low-priority Doc issue, so look there for more info about this.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: \open next to notehead

[Graham Percival]

There was recently discussion about how to do this with \thumb.  The
solution might have been added to LSR; if not, look through the
mailing list archives.

Cheers,
- Graham


On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Nick Payne  wrote:
> When using \open to indicate an open string, is it possible, other than by
> tweaking, to get the indication next to the notehead in the same way as for
> fingering. I had a search of the documentation but didn't find anything.
>
> Nick
>
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Re: new website 24-hour test

[Graham Percival]

On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 08:33:51PM +0200, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> What means "Help wanted: obvious css issue to be dealt with. :("?
> I found it at http://lilypond.org/macos-x.html
> (Didn't search all pages for more occurrences.)

In this case, it means that if you have a browser window less than
about 1000 pixels, important information about the
  exec DIR/...
line is covered up by the picture in the right column.

We need either smaller margins, or smaller font, or something.
This should be done by CSS if at all possible; if not, we'll look
at changing the texinfo source.

Cheers,
- Graham

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new website 24-hour test

[Graham Percival]

We’re testing our new website! For the next 24 hours, the new website
will be the default website; after that, we will switch back to the
old website while we examine feedback and make improvements to the new
website.

Please send feedback to lilypond-user; you can find more information
on our page about Contact.

Note: There are a few known problems with translations. If you are a
non-English speaker, you may prefer to view the old lilypond website
at: http://lilypond.org/web/

Cheers,
- Graham

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bug backlog finished; please re-report anything missing

[Graham Percival]

We have now caught up on our backlog of bugs.  If you are aware of any
problems that are not fixed in 2.13.26 and have not been added to our
tracker, then unfortunately the report has been lost.  Please report
the bug again by following the guidelines here:
http://lilypond.org/website/bug-reports.html

Note that an email to lilypond-user or lilypond-devel does *not*
constitute a proper bug report.  We do not have enough Bug Squad
members to look at those mailing lists for reports; any lost bug
reports sent to those lists have been unapologetically lost.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: fyi - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFreeCultureShowcase

[Graham Percival]

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Jan Nieuwenhuizen
 wrote:
> PS: do we have/want a special place in the new website for
>    original/new compositions made with/in LilyPond?

What, like:
  http://lilypond.org/website/productions.html
?  it's in the maoing introduction.

> PPS: wouldn't it be nice if we had so many great composers
>     in our userbase that we could stage a composition
>     contest with a major release?

err... offering up money?  We can't exactly promise everlasting fame.

OpenBSD has a "release song".  I suppose we could have a "release
piece", but who would do the judging, how many people would actually
submit anything, is it worth telling all but one of those submissions
that they lost the contest, etc?

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: LilyPond to Finale :-(

[Graham Percival]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Urs Liska  wrote:
> I will have to somehow convert a LilyPond score to Finale :-(

You _might_ be able to save some time by producing a midi file from
lilypond, importing the midi into finale, and then correcting pitches,
rhythms, dynamics, and adding slurs, articulations, etc... but
honestly, I'd just start from scratch.

Look at the pdf from lilypond, and start clicking away.

> But are there solutions that could transfer more information more reliably
> to a finale file.

No.

... oh wait, I think I've heard of some kind of sheet music scanning
ability in finale or sibelius or the like?  If you have that, you
could try printing the music, then scanning it in.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: RemoveEmptyStaffContext erases previous setting

[Graham Percival]

On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 03:17:34PM +0100, Phil Holmes wrote:
> "Reinhold Kainhofer"  wrote in message  
> news:201002051826.56687.reinh...@kainhofer.com...
>> On Friday 05 February 2010 18:05:52 you wrote:
>>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Reinhold Kainhofer
>>>
>>>  wrote:
>>> > I found out the hard way that apparently adding > 
>>> \RemoveEmptyStaffContext
>>> > globally to a score will erase some previous settings.
>>>
>>> Yes.  \removeEmptyStaffContext copies the new context over the
>>> previous one.  Or something like this.
>>
>> Yes, it works as follows: The \removeEmptyStaffContext variable stores the
>> newly created Staff-derived context in the init file (i.e. when
>> removeEmptyStaffContext is defined, so it contains only the default  
>> settings for
>> Staff). All subsequent changes to the Staff context are of couse not  
>> applied to
>> the removeEMptyStaffContext variable.
>> When you insert RESC into your score, however, the current Staff 
>> context is
>> replaced by the value of the RESC, which does not contain any of your  
>> changes.
>>
>> So, while it is clear how things work when you know the internals, I  
>> definitely
>> regard this a bad bug, as something innocent as automatically removing  
>> empty
>> staves has lethal side-effects (e.g. on figured bass and all different  
>> unrelated
>> areas!).
>>
>> So, from a developer perspective, the current behavior might be 
>> expected, but
>> it is definitely not what any sane USER would expect. And for me this 
>> is the
>> definition of a bug.
>>
>> I think RESC should be somehow recoded to apply only the relevant 
>> changes when
>> it is actually called, but not store the whole Staff context at 
>> definition time.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Reinhold
>
> I've had a long look at this and can confirm that there are some slightly 
> odd things going on, and variations between 2.12 and 2.13.  Please see 
> the attached image and let me have your thoughts.

Stop.  Do not pass go.  Do not ask for thoughts.

- is there a Tiny example which you believe demonstrates
  something unexpected or weird, using the latest development
  version?

If yes, add it to the tracker.  Period.  umm, after checking to
see if it's already in the tracker.  Period-period.


My only concern here is that you're using 2.13.21, and I have a
vague feeling that I've seen some bugfixes about removeEmpty
stuff.  It's slightly possible that this behaviour isn't present
in 2.13.24-2.  But if it _is_, dump it in the tracker.

You don't need to care if it's a problem in RemoveEmpty, a problem
in the figured notation, or a problem somewhere else.  You don't
even need to care if it's a problem in the docs vs. code (guessing
is fine; spend less than 30 seconds pondering the Type).


now, as it happens in this case, Reinhold's posted a great
explanation of why it's happening; you should copy&paste that into
the tracker issue.  Type-Defect, Priority-Medium.  No, it doesn't
look like a regression in anything that worked deliberately in the
past.

Cheers,
- Graham

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seeking more Bug Squad members

[Graham Percival]

I'm looking for volunteers to join the Bug Squad.  The workload is
15 minutes per week.

We currently have 3 victims.  That means that the response time
for bugs could be around 100 hours.  I'd like it to be 24 hours,
since that's a nice round number.  Much rounder than 100.

To reach the goal of "a response within 24 hours", we'd need
another 4 volunteers.  Of course, this is assuming that Bug Squad
members never go on holiday, never get busy, etc.  So I'd like to
get more than 4 additional volunteers... a total of 14 would be
nice.  Then we could have two people doing 15 minutes each day.
As a result, people could take breaks easily, and the overall
workload would probably drop to 5-10 minutes each week.  Maybe
even less.

If you want an overview of what you'd be doing, read about it
here:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/contributor/bug-squad-checklists


If you're interested, please let me know which day(s) you would be
available to spend your 15 minutes on.  I'd like to make up a
schedule with (at least) one person for each day of the week.  No,
we're not going to fuss about time zones.

Two "serious" notes:
- I really do mean 15 minutes a week, although I admit that there
  would probably be a total of 60 minutes of reading + training to
  get you accustomed to the work.
- please only volunteer if you really think you can commit to the
  15 minutes per week.  I don't want to make up a beautiful
  schedule and then have people dropping out after a month.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Consistent gs problem PS->PDF 2.13.24

[Graham Percival]

Updated 2.13.24-2 for linux-64 and mingw:
http://lilypond.org/~graham/

Please test and let me know if they're better.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: multi-tempi

[Graham Percival]

On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:20:03PM +0200, Hans Roels wrote:
> The conclusion of this thread was that this kind of multi-tempo score is 
> impossible to realize in Lilypond. All the examples in the thread are 
> polymetric and have a common beat (a quarter or eigth). Has anything 
> changed since 2008 or is this still impossible?

Multi-tempo scores are simple and have been for at least 5 years.
See the documentation.

Importing multi-tempo scores with midi2ly doesn't work, because
nobody wants to work on midi2ly.

- Graham

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Re: Consistent gs problem PS->PDF 2.13.24

[Graham Percival]

Ghostscript was bumped to something.70, and a bunch of extra
patches we apply to ghostscript changed.  We'll look into it.

Cheers,
- Graham

On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 08:46:42AM +1000, Nick Payne wrote:
> I just downloaded and installed 2.13.24 - linux 64-bit running on Ubuntu  
> 10.04 amd64. After installing it, every file I try to build gives the  
> same error when trying to create the PDF from the PS:
>
> Parsing...
> Interpreting music... [8][16][24][32][40]
> Preprocessing graphical objects...
> Interpreting music...
> MIDI output to `bwv1007_prelude.midi'...
> Solving 1 page-breaking chunks...[1: 2 or 3 pages]
> Drawing systems...
> Layout output to `bwv1007_prelude.ps'...
> Converting to `./bwv1007_prelude.pdf'...
> `gs -q -dSAFER -dDEVICEWIDTHPOINTS=595.28 -dDEVICEHEIGHTPOINTS=841.89  
> -dCompatibilityLevel=1.4 -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -r1200 -sDEVICE=pdfwrite  
> -sOutputFile="./bwv1007_prelude.pdf" -c .setpdfwrite -f  
> "bwv1007_prelude.ps"' failed (256)
> error: failed files: "/home/nick/lilypond/Bach/BWV1007/bwv1007_prelude.ly"
>
> If I uninstall 2.13.24 and reinstall 2.13.23 the files all build without  
> error. Uninstall 2.13.23 and reinstall 2.13.24 and the error returns.
>
> Nick
>
> ___
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Re: invisible rest that takes no horizontal space

[Graham Percival]

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 08:59:45PM +0200, Peter Van Kranenburg wrote:
>
> \skip and s consume score time, but both print some horizontal space.  
> How can I insert an invisible rest that does not take horizontal space?
> I searched the manuals and snippet repository, but no clue...

My first instinct is that  s4*0  should do what you want, but I
haven't tested it.

Cheers,
- Graham

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bounties

[Graham Percival]

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 08:25:27PM +0200, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
> Op dinsdag 15-06-2010 om 16:50 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Graham
> Percival:
> 
> > That has been attempted before... hmm, 2007?  Han-Wen tried to work on
> > lilypond full-time, but there just wasn't enough people offering
> > bounties
> 
> I am considering to offer commercial support and may be able to do
> that on a part-time basis.  However, working on two bounties has
> illustrated that bounty work can be quite tricky.

Indeed; there's almost no relationship between the amount of work
required and the amount of money being offered.

> It would be very
> nice for someone doing this for a hobby and getting to know LilyPond,
> but commercial support requires some level of predictability.

Actually, somebody pointed out (privately) that chasing bounties
is less appealing for inexperienced developers: a $100 bounty
could very well take you 50 hours to complete (i.e. if it's your
first time working on spacing code), making the job $2 / hr.

> Also, if the amount of work is not consistent but takes the form
> of a few thousand euros once a year, you would be very lucky if I
> (or whoever else would take this on) would happen to be available
> within a reasonable time frame to work on those.

Yes.


I'm not trying to discourage people from offering bounties -- it's
certainly better than nothing!  However, there's very good reasons
why programmers don't immediately start working on any issue that
has a bounty being offered.

One idea I've toyed with is seeking a grant to work on lilypond.
Various governments and agencies give research grants; I'm pretty
certain that we could get a grant to improve medieval chant
notation or contemporary non-Western scales or whatnot.  However,
this would probably require
- a bunch of grant applications
- collaborating with some musicologists (i.e. a medieval chant
  expert, or John Cage scholar, or whatever)
- overhead of writing reports about deliverables, giving
  presentations to people, etc.
- etc.
In the process of doing the specialized notation, the developer
might fix a few "normal" bugs as well.


If there was a concerted effort, particularly between the European
academics involved with LilyPond, it could be done, and we might
even be able to fund a full-time developer for 6 months or even a
year.  However, I'm not certain the effort would be worth it --
writing grants is a lot of work; we'd probably have to make
multiple attempts; dealing with the administration of the grant
would be a lot of work; etc etc.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Percussion stick signs

[Graham Percival]

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 11:34:51AM -0300, luis jure wrote:
> 
> el 2010-06-15 a las 09:23 Stefan Thomas escribió:
> 
> > this a great.
> > I think this should be mentioned in the documentation for percussion
> > instruments!
> 
>  +1

Add it to LSR first.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Presentation: "Publisher-grade LilyPond" in Ottawa

[Graham Percival]

On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 7:02 AM, Boris Shingarov  wrote:
> This is not what we are saying in our presentation and/or paper.
> What we are saying is: "We attempted a publication of a major critical
> edition through a major publishing house, using software from a volunteer
> open-source project with limited resources.  We first hoped that this
> software would be immediately (or almost immediately) suitable for
> critical-edition work.  We found issues blocking this work.  These issues
> are orthogonal to the main direction of the LilyPond project.  We fixed
> them, making the book possible.  Future work includes making these solutions
> useful for the wide LilyPond audience, not just for the immediate needs of
> this particular book".

That message is entirely fair.  Others have mentioned that this isn't
the impression the slides give, so let's drop the subject now.  I hope
that you've looked at Reinhold's LAU talks from last month; one of
them is quite relevant to this topic.

> Reason two, the cry for help was heard all over the mailing list starting
> many, many months ago.  Anyone with a LaTeX-based solution yet?  Anyone even
> *suggesting* a LaTeX-based solution yet?  After a year and non-trivial
> (thousands of Euros) bounties offered?

I really cannot recall seeing any offers of "thousands of Euros".  If
they're still valid offers, please send info to bug-lilypond.


> Simplest example: a patch fixes a bug (a Blocker for our real-life
> project).  The fix is used in production for some time, and seems to be
> working fine.  Code review on Rietveld, patch looks good to the reviewers.
> The only problem delaying its push, is the absence of a test case.

We now (in the past hour) have expanded documentation about test
cases; this might help:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/contributor/regression-tests


> What I am trying to do, is create some sort of professional LilyPond
> ecosystem, where people would be allowed to spend serious amount of time on
> LilyPond work, but where problems would actually get fixed.  If a publishing
> project is willing to spend many thousand dollars to fix a certain problem,

That has been attempted before... hmm, 2007?  Han-Wen tried to work on
lilypond full-time, but there just wasn't enough people offering
bounties to be able to support his family (with a young child).  I
mean, think of what an average software developer earns in a month --
can the lilypond user community really come up with that kind of
money?

In some ways it's a "chicken and egg" problem -- you need to have
highly skilled developer(s) to be able to respond quickly and
efficiently to sponsorship requests, but on the other hand, the best
way to get highly skilled developers is to have them working on code,
and bounties are a good way to motivate some people.
* note: they're only good for _some_ people.  Most of our programmers
already have stable, busy jobs (for example, a professor of mechanical
engineering).  Chasing a few 50-euro bounties often works out to be
less than their "real" job.

OTOH, if there's a consistent stream of many hundred-euro bounties,
this could dramatically change things.

- Graham

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Re: Presentation: "Publisher-grade LilyPond" in Ottawa

[Graham Percival]

On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 07:42:24PM +0200, Xavier Scheuer wrote:
> 2010/6/11 Boris Shingarov :
> 
> > The slides are now online at
> > http://www.shingarov.com/lily
> 
> I also found the last slides a bit too "pessimistic"...
> 
> But anyway, it's nice that people talk about LilyPond ; if we make
> people discover it, maybe in those people we will find some useful
> developers to continue improving LilyPond!  ;D

I doubt that -- his slides would discourage any potential
developers from joining; after all, we showed "zero interest in
addressing these issues", he was "unable to get help from the
development community, and patches were "hard or impossible to
contribute back".

... I mean, I'm *already* a developer, and I now have almost no
motivation to continue working on lilypond.  If somebody wasn't
already engaged in the project, there's no way they'd want to join
after reading those slides.

- Graham

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Re: Presentation: "Publisher-grade LilyPond" in Ottawa

[Graham Percival]

On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Graham Percival
 wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Boris Shingarov  wrote:
>>> And for those who cannot make it or are too lazy
>>> to travel to Canada, will your presentation or
>>> paper be available online?
>>
>> The slides are now online at
>> http://www.shingarov.com/lily
>
> Are you seriously going to submit a paper to CMJ saying "a volunteer
> open-source project has limited resources for fixing bugs" ???

Oh, and I hope that this "paper to appear" includes an excellent
reason why you didn't use lilypond-book and LaTeX, which unlike
lilypond itself is *designed* to mix music and text.

- Graham

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Re: Presentation: "Publisher-grade LilyPond" in Ottawa

[Graham Percival]

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Boris Shingarov  wrote:
>> And for those who cannot make it or are too lazy
>> to travel to Canada, will your presentation or
>> paper be available online?
>
> The slides are now online at
> http://www.shingarov.com/lily

Are you seriously going to submit a paper to CMJ saying "a volunteer
open-source project has limited resources for fixing bugs" ???

That's classy.  Sometimes I wonder why I bother trying to improve lilypond.

- Graham

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two-week Report warning

[Graham Percival]

It's time to start thinking about the next LilyPond Report, our
community newsletter.  If you have any news about lilypond or its
community that you want to share, get in touch with us.  If you
want to make sure we mention something, get in touch.  If you want
to contribute any articles, get in touch.

Generally, get in touch.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Woodwind diagrams in lilypond w/ changes from M Watts & I Hulin

[Graham Percival]

On Wed, Jun 09, 2010 at 09:41:34PM -0300, josé henrique padovani wrote:
> Em 09/06/10 21:23, Carl Sorensen escreveu:
>> Unfortunately, it doesn't include the complete files, so it would be fairly
>> difficult for a user who is not familiar with git or patch to make it work.
>>
> Could you please give some advices about which git / patch flags should  
> I use to apply the patch to my current directories?

If you seriously want to learn, then do a google search for
"patch" to learn how to use it.  If not, wait a few weeks until
it's part of lilypond.  This topic is too long to teach in a few
emails.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Quotes and apostrophes in PDF documentation

[Graham Percival]

On Sat, Jun 05, 2010 at 12:19:02PM +1000, Nick Payne wrote:
> For example, the entry in the  
> 2.13 changes documentation on preserving intermediate files:

This has now been fixed; the version in the 2.13.24 docs should be
good.  As far as I know, all other manuals did this properly to
begin with.  Let me know if you find any other such problems.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Suppress .ps generation

[Graham Percival]

On Sun, Jun 06, 2010 at 08:05:28PM +0530, Disc Magnet wrote:
> >From the man page:
> 
>-d, --define-default=SYM[=VAL]
>   set Scheme option SYM to VAL  (default:  #t).   Use  -dhelp  for
>   help.
> 
> How to use this?

That's impressive.  You managed to quote the:
Use -dhelp for help
part, but you're still asking how to use it.

- Graham

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Re: Suppress .ps generation

[Graham Percival]

On Sun, Jun 06, 2010 at 10:15:51AM -0400, Johnny Ferguson wrote:
> looking through the man page, it seems you're pointing to the "-f"  
> option. I take it that the default settings are "--formats=pdf,ps"

No, I'm not.  Look at -d.

- Graham

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Re: Suppress .ps generation

[Graham Percival]

On Sun, Jun 06, 2010 at 07:25:09PM +0530, Disc Magnet wrote:
> When I run the command: lilypond foo.ly, it generates a foo.ps as well
> as foo.pdf. Is there a way to suppress the creation of the foo.ps
> file?

Yes.  You might want to read the output of --help, or else look in
the manual.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Quotes and apostrophes in PDF documentation

[Graham Percival]

On Sat, Jun 05, 2010 at 12:19:02PM +1000, Nick Payne wrote:
> In the PDF version of the documentation, some of the code samples in the  
> text have typesetters quotes or apostrophes, which means they fail if  
> copied and pasted into lilypond source. For example, the entry in the  
> 2.13 changes documentation on preserving intermediate files:

I see why it's happening in Changes.  Have you seen this anywhere
else?

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Kieren MacMillan, Bounty Hunter

[Graham Percival]

On Sat, Jun 05, 2010 at 01:26:28PM -0400, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
> > In particular, could this figure be in US$ or euro?
> 
> The local currency stays meaningful to the sponsor, whereas the converted one 
> doesn't.
> e.g., if I offer US$100 when the CDN$ is at parity, I'll have to pay $200 if 
> it drops to 1:2 during the time the bounty is unclaimed.

Well, do we want to make things easier for the sponsor, or easier
for the developer?  It's a trade-off.

My whole view of lilypond development is to make things as easy as
possible for the people we have the least of.  More users than Bug
Squad members?  put more onus on users reporting bugs and less on
the Bug Squad.  More users wanting news about releases than people
working on releases?  screw writing detailed news; users can go
read the changelog (or offer to help) they want more info than
"some bugs were fixed, and BTW, you shouldn't be using 2.13 for
anything serious".

Currency fluctuation *is* an issue, especially if bounties float
around for a year or two before being claimed.  We could add time
limits to these... frankly, I'd interpret any bounty older than 3
months as a "suggestion" rather than a firm promise, and I'd try
to contact the person offering it to check if it's still valid
before doing any work.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Kieren MacMillan, Bounty Hunter

[Graham Percival]

On Sat, Jun 05, 2010 at 01:10:00PM -0400, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
> If you have an issue that you are willing to sponsor, please send me 
> (off-list) an email containing:
>   2. the amount you're personally willing to pay to see the fix/addition;

In particular, could this figure be in US$ or euro?  I don't want
discourage Canadians and Britons from sponsoring (especially since
those are my two countries), but not everybodys knows the current
exchange rate between NZ dollars and French francs.  Keeping these
figures to the "big-name" US$ and euro will make it easier for
people to keep track; most people will already have a rough idea
of how their national currency compares to those two.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Conditional compiles

[Graham Percival]

On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:16 PM,   wrote:
> Is there a way to compile different parts of a lilypond source file without
> needing to edit source.

Yes.

You might want to read the manual, and/or search the mailing list archives.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: spacing/breaking issue [time-sensitive]

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 07:59:20PM -0400, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
> Graham,
> 
> > Since none of those are in the tracker as a Critical issue, none
> > of them are show-stoppers for 2.14.
> 
> May I say that
> 
> being labelled as "medium" causes me to wonder about the whole bug 
> prioritizing system. Is there some logic to what makes something "critical"?

A regression.  If 884 created good output in 2.12, then by all
means point this out and it'll be re-categorized.

Note that even truly embarrassing mistakes are not Critical --
those are High.  I wouldn't call 884 "truly embarrassing", though.
At least, not in comparison to various other longstanding bugs.
(are you starting to understand why I'm so short-tempered when
people talk about grand new features and the like?)

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: spacing/breaking issue [time-sensitive]

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 08:23:40PM +0200, Nicolas Sceaux wrote:
> 
> If you compile LilyPond yourself, you might try the following patch:
 ~~~

...

> +  compute_line_heights ();

ROTFLMAO!  That email is epic p0wnage.

Given Kieren's problems trying to compile lilypond... given his
efforts to produce good scores so close to a deadline... given the
simplicity of the patch... and given that I'm certain that Nicolas
isn't trying to be at all mean and is genuinely trying to help...
that was absolutely beautiful.

The best "unintentional snark" I've seen in years.  ;)

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: spacing/breaking issue [time-sensitive]

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 07:14:30PM +0200, Alexander Kobel wrote:
> I assume you already defined page-count = #5?  There's a known issue (at  
> least it's been on the mailing lists, no clue whether it's in the bug  
> tracker and/or some known issues section in the docs) as follows:
> If page-count is defined in the 2.13 series (at least the earlier  
> releases), \pageBreak produces page-count many breaks for the whole  
> score; thus, you have to either set page-count = #1 (sic!) and use  
> manual page breaks, or use \override NonMusicalPaperColumn  
> #'page-break-permission = ##f and omit the page-count definition.
>
> By the way, I have no clue whether the same holds for system-count and  
> 'line-break-permission. IMHO, this could also be show stopper for 2.14...

Since none of those are in the tracker as a Critical issue, none
of them are show-stoppers for 2.14.  If we get proper bug reports
about them, showing a file that worked in 2.10 or 2.12 but fails
in 2.14, then it would become a show-stopper.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: alignAboveContext - don't know what I don't understand

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:01:54AM -0700, Jay Hamilton wrote:
>Thank you that worked it's not exactly that way in the example of the
>docs-
>Should that be changed?

I haven't followed the discussion at all, but if you have a
suggestion, please see:
http://lilypond.org/website/help-us.html

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: spacing/breaking issue [time-sensitive]

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:10:20PM -0400, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
> Hi Graham,
> 
> > For the record, there are NO KNOWN BUGS with the new spacing algorithm.
> 
> So
> 
> is fixed?

1) I see no indication that it was ever added to the issue
tracker; hence my "no KNOWN bugs" still qualifies.  And I don't
think that we've ever claimed that we'd acknowledge bugs sent to
the user list.

No, the fact that the bug discussion was between two main
developers does not mean that the bug is "known".  As far as
releases are concerned, if it's not in the issue tracker, then it
doesn't exist.

2) even if it _was_ sent to the bug list, it could well have
fallen into the "lost ones" bug category.  Whoops.  Volunteers for
archeological digs through the mailing list archives will be
gracefully accepted.


> > Hopefully in a few weeks I can start recruiting new people to join the Bug 
> > Squad -- perhaps even you?
> 
> Definitely.

Ok, I'll release 2.13.23 fairly soon, so that the updated bug
guildelines are online.  You'll need a day or two to recover from
this deadline, anyway.  :)

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: spacing/breaking issue [time-sensitive]

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Kieren MacMillan
 wrote:
> MAO MAO-ING MAO, can we please resolve these spacing issues ASAP?

At the risk of making a crude masturbation joke, if I could wave a
magic wand to fix stuff, I'd be waving my wand all day and night.


> Sorry for the rant -- I blame the deadline pressure -- but it really is a bit 
> ludicrous, and does not give Lilypond the best possible chance of impressing 
> anyone out of the box. If this issue isn't on your "critical 2.14-killer" 
> list, it should be.


For the record, there are NO KNOWN BUGS with the new spacing
algorithm.  Every single spacing regression bug that has been sent to
bug-lilypond has been fixed.
** nb: actually, this might be incorrect.  There's about 5-10 bugs
that were sent to bug-lilypond, but for which nobody has processed
them.  One of those might contain a nicely-written bug report with a
Tiny example which demonstrates this problem.  So rather: every single
spacing regression bug that was entered to the issue tracker has been
fixed.


Because of our recent discussion about contributors getting started,
I've spent an hour rewriting the CG chapter about Issues and the
website "help us" page.  Hopefully in a few weeks I can start
recruiting new people to join the Bug Squad -- perhaps even you? this
requires absolutely zero interaction with the source code and
compilation, after all -- so that we won't lose good bug reports.  (or
even non-good bug reports)

Hopefully after the deadline is over, you could create a tiny example
of your problem and report it as a bug.  Or, since Joe doesn't seem to
be very picky about spacing bugs, and is probably willing to assure
you that he will not show copywritten material to anybody else, you
might be able to send your current score directly to him.


But I want to be absolutely clear that I can do is organize the bug
reports and attempt to herd the cattish developers.  If I have no
reports (again, leaving aside the lost ones), I can't try to
manipulate any developers into working on those problems.

(with regards to the "lost" bug reports: again, all I can do is to
organize people willing to work on bugs.  If we have so few volunteers
offering to help organize bugs that we can't process all bug reports,
then we'll obviously lose bug reports.  *shrug* )

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: spacing/breaking issue [time-sensitive]

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Kieren MacMillan
 wrote:
>
> For the record, I just added \pageBreaks where I want them... and Lilypond 
> outputted 25 pages: it added 20 blank pages and scattered them amongst the 5 
> with actual music.
> MAO!!!  =(

Stick the \pageBreak in the 1st violin part, not the global{} part?
I'm guessing here, but maybe two simultaneous \pageBreaks aren't
treated/recognized as simultaneous?

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: spacing/breaking issue [time-sensitive]

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Kieren MacMillan
 wrote:
> My score looks quite nice on 17 systems spread over 5 pages -- I would like:
>  Page 1: title + 3
>  Pages 2-4: 4 systems
>  Page 5: 2 systems

> Other than manually inserting breaks, what can I do to get Lilypond to Do The 
> Right Thing™?

I think that manual breaks are the easiest solution.  You could
separate it into distinct \bookparts, but that would be much more work
than manually adding \break and \pageBreak.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: page-based header functions

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 12:37:36PM -0400, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
> \footer {
>   \if-page #'first { FIRST PAGE FOOTER }
> }
> 
> Questions:
> 1. Can this be done entirely in Scheme? [Intuition: YES.]

Check out the definition of \on-the-fly and things like #last-page
and #part-first-page.  IIRC these emails were from 3-5 years ago.

> 2. Is there are better syntax? [Intuition: YES.]

Yes, but we're not having any official discussion about this until
GLISS.  In particular I'm uncertain about the notion of a
\footer{} section, although that idea has come up from time to
time and will be given due consideration.

> 3. Is everything I need to know how to do this available in the existing 
> titling code? [Intuition: YES.]

My intuition is that \on-the-fly already does 90% of what you
want.  If I'm correct, then unfortunately:

1) this won't be good scheme practice at all since it's so easy
2) you'll want to talk about syntax, which is a huge time+energy
drain that we don't need right before 2.14.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: SustainPedal padding?

[Graham Percival]

On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Phil Holmes  wrote:
>
>  \override Staff.SustainPedal #'padding = #-2
>
> has any effect at all.  I can guess what it's trying to do, but doesn't seem
> to do anything.  Anyone any thoughts?

This might be something that used to work before 2.11 added vertical
skylines.  If you're particularly interested, you could check the
regtests for 2.10, 2.8, 2.6, etc. to see when this test was added.
Then download the appropriate version and try the test with and
without that line to see what it did.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Contributing to the LSR

[Graham Percival]

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 01:59:52PM +0200, Mats Bengtsson wrote:
>
> Graham Percival wrote:
>> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 09:41:34AM +0100, Phil Holmes wrote:
>>   
>>> How long should I expect it to take before snippets I add to the LSR 
>>> are  visible?
>>
>> IIRC, adding a snippet should be visible on LSR instantly. 
> IIRC, it has to be approved by an LSR responsible before it's visible,  
> but that's usually very quick.

Thanks, Mats -- I'd completely forgotten about that step!

I wouldn't be surprised if the approval takes a week.  However,
I'm willing to consider making you a LSR admin.  If you're
interested, let me know and I'll critique the snippets you've
added so far.  (err, also tell me which snippets you did)

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Contributing to the LSR

[Graham Percival]

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 09:41:34AM +0100, Phil Holmes wrote:
> How long should I expect it to take before snippets I add to the LSR are  
> visible?

IIRC, adding a snippet should be visible on LSR instantly.  It
will take 2 or 3 weeks before a doc-tagged snippet in LSR makes
its way into the lilypond docs themselves, though.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: I just discovered the LilyPond Tool GUI Front end

[Graham Percival]

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:37:23PM +, Charles Cave wrote:
> I stumbled upon the Lilypond Tool project on Source Forge
> because it was mentioned in a post on this forum.
> 
> I am surprised this program hasnt been mentioned more frequently
> on this forum as it appears to be make Lilypond file creation
> so much easier. 

It's mentioned prominently in the new website:
http://lilypond.org/website/easier-editing.html

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: GUB and mipsel architecture

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 08:45:37AM +0200, Federico Bruni wrote:
> I'm wondering if it is worth having a mipsel package on lilypond.org
> (when 2.14 comes out, maybe).
> I'd be happy to do it, if I can. A chance to help and learn something
> new.

This should be discussed on -devel rather than -user.

I would be happy to build+include mipsel packages, as long as
somebody else modifies GUB to handle it, and they fix any breakage
in those packages.  If they stop GUB from compiling a release, I
would simply comment out the mipsel compilation and release the
rest.

However, cross-compiling is a fairly involved process and requires
a great deal of technical knowledge.  Don't expect much help,
because very few people have any experience with it.


> #
> 
> Tail of target/tools/log/librestrict.log 
> ./xstatconv.c:224: error: 'struct stat' has no member named '__pad2'
> ./xstatconv.c:266: error: 'struct stat' has no member named
> '__unused4'
> ./xstatconv.c:269: error: 'struct stat' has no member named
> '__unused5'
> Command barfed:
> cd /home/fede/src/gub/target/tools/build/librestrict-1.9.a && gcc -W
> -Wall -fno-stack-protector -I. -fPIC -shared -o librestrict-stat.so
> restrict-stat.c || gcc -W -Wall  -I. -fPIC -shared -o
> librestrict-stat.so restrict-stat.c
>  Tail of target/tools/log/librestrict.log
> 
> *** Failed target: tools::librestrict
> 
> ##
> 
> Just in case, I attach also target/tools/build/librestrict-1.9.a/xstatconv.c
> 
> How can I fix it?

I would begin by searching for this error on google.  Also, where
in the code does this error occur?  What do you see around lines
260-270 in xstatcon.c ?  also, what headers does this file
include, and are those headers available?


> PS (a report on a different subject)

Please don't report multiple issues in the same email.

> I've read that you have changed the ./configure in 2.13.21
> In previous versions, when I run ./autogen.sh, ./configure failed to 
> recognise my architecture,
> even though some information were printed on terminal (can't remember)
> and especially: `uname -m mips64`
> Since this version I don't have this warning.
> Maybe next time I can try removing the --build=mips64 option and see what 
> happen.

Err... is this a report, or a memo to yourself?  By all means, try
removing that build option and see what happens.  As you said,
we've updated the ./configure script, so I wouldn't be surprised
if the host architecture detection is better.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Change appearance of the SpanBar

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:23:32PM +0200, Xavier Scheuer wrote:
> I'll suggest a corrected version of
> http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=125
> #'glyph was maybe correct in some earlier versions but it is no more
> in 2.12 and following...
> And maybe we could mention the snippet in the NR I'll suggest that too.

I'm not quite certain what you're talking about, as I have no
internet access as I write this.  But once you've altered snippet
125 (again, consult with Valentin for info about this) and tagged
it with "docs", please suggest to James the exact snippet name and
location in the docs for which it should appear.

There's no point talking about modifying the docs until you've
altered the snippet, though.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Midi2ly Error

[Graham Percival]

Yes, and that's why I asked you to create tiny midi files with the
different programs, and to upload them to that particular bug
report.

If the files only contain one note, it'll be easier to examine
them for differences (if necessary, byte-by-byte).

- Graham


On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 02:15:51PM -0700, Jonathan Townes wrote:
> Graham,
> It must be something in the header of the files, because I don't see
> much difference in looking at the event lists of midi files created in
> Lilypond and other problems.
> -Jonathan
> 
> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Graham Percival
>  wrote:
> > It's a known problem for windows.
> > http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=834
> >
> > The info about different midi programs is interesting, though, and
> > might help somebody fix it.  If you can duplicate the problem
> > using a very simply score (1 staff, 1 note, with 2 or 3 different
> > programs), could you attach those files to that bug report?
> >
> > Sorry,
> > - Graham
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 02:07:11PM -0700, Jonathan Townes wrote:
> >> I'm encountering problems with midi2ly. I receive the error below when
> >> running midi2ly on midi files exported from Reaper, a DAW. I receive
> >> no error when converting midi files created by Lilypond or Anvil
> >> Studio, a midi only program. Any insight or suggestions for exporting
> >> midi would be greatly appreciated.
> >>
> >> C:\Documents and Settings\jt\Desktop>midi2ly Test8.mid
> >> Traceback (most recent call last):
> >>   File "C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\bin\midi2ly.py", line 991, in ?
> >>     main()
> >>   File "C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\bin\midi2ly.py", line 989, in main
> >>     convert_midi (f, o)
> >>   File "C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\bin\midi2ly.py", line 823, in 
> >> convert_midi
> >>     for (dur, num, den) in global_options.allowed_tuplets:
> >> SystemError: 
> >> /main/src/gub/target/mingw/src/python-2.4.5/Objects/listobject.c:255:
> >> bad argument to internal function
> >>
> >>
> >> Lilypond version 2.2.13-1 (Windows XP)
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
> >

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Re: Midi2ly Error

[Graham Percival]

It's a known problem for windows.
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=834

The info about different midi programs is interesting, though, and
might help somebody fix it.  If you can duplicate the problem
using a very simply score (1 staff, 1 note, with 2 or 3 different
programs), could you attach those files to that bug report?

Sorry,
- Graham


On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 02:07:11PM -0700, Jonathan Townes wrote:
> I'm encountering problems with midi2ly. I receive the error below when
> running midi2ly on midi files exported from Reaper, a DAW. I receive
> no error when converting midi files created by Lilypond or Anvil
> Studio, a midi only program. Any insight or suggestions for exporting
> midi would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> C:\Documents and Settings\jt\Desktop>midi2ly Test8.mid
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\bin\midi2ly.py", line 991, in ?
> main()
>   File "C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\bin\midi2ly.py", line 989, in main
> convert_midi (f, o)
>   File "C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\bin\midi2ly.py", line 823, in 
> convert_midi
> for (dur, num, den) in global_options.allowed_tuplets:
> SystemError: 
> /main/src/gub/target/mingw/src/python-2.4.5/Objects/listobject.c:255:
> bad argument to internal function
> 
> 
> Lilypond version 2.2.13-1 (Windows XP)
> 
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Re: Acciaccaturas under slurs

[Graham Percival]

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 04:35:22PM +0100, David Sumbler wrote:
> a4( \acciaccatura b8 c4 d)

Known problem; you can't do this.

> How can I persuade Lilypond to print a slur correctly from the A to the
> D?

You can kind-of fake it with a phrasing slur.  \( \)
This runs into problems if you want an acciacatura, slur, and
phrasing slur, though.  If you really need that, I'd fake the
accia slur with postscript.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Text cresc *without dashed line* and Y-offset

[Graham Percival]

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 11:57:22PM +0200, Xavier Scheuer wrote:
> But I feel also sad that this issue (about something very "simple",
> common) is still unsolved (2 years after).

Heh, you think that's bad?  From 4 years ago:
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=11
(image on comment 9: the 16th note beam is on the wrong side of
the stem)


Sadly, there's no quick fix for any of these.  The only way is to
get more developers, and the least unreliable way to get more
developers is to have more people working as Frogs.  I know that
scheme and the lilypond internals look complicated and scary, but
diving into that stuff is the only way that the situation will
improve.

Alternately, you could take over some "mundane maintenance" jobs
(such as joining the Bug Squad), which would free up developers
(including myself) to work on the scheme stuff.  If I ever get
enough people handling my mundane tasks such that I can be a Frog,
my plan is to start from the first open issue and work on it until
it's done, then repeat.  I'd really like to be able to claim that
we've finished all bugs that are over 3 years old.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: first barnumber

[Graham Percival]

You don't need to do any searching of the snippet repository.

1.  Go to:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond/Bars#Bar-numbers
2.  Read the SECOND EXAMPLE ON THE PAGE.  The one right after
"selected snippets".

or, in the 2.13 docs,
1.  Go to:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/notation/bars#Bar-numbers
2.  Read the SECOND EXAMPLE ON THE PAGE, which isn't even inside
the "selected snippets" section.  Or read the THIRD EXAMPLE ON THE
PAGE, which says how to do this even clearer.


Some things in lilypond are hard to do.  Some things are only in
the snippet repository.  But this is in the mainstream Notation
reference.

- Graham

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 08:49:19AM +0200, Stefan Thomas wrote:
>Dear community,
>thank You for Your help.
>I know now, how to do it.
>Off course, Graham is in principle right: before answering questions, one
>should read the manual.
>But: I've read the manual and I've searched for it without success.
>It was my fault not to search in the snippet repository.
>    So, thanks again,
>Stefan
> 
>2010/5/11 Graham Percival 
> 
>  On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 09:42:53PM +0200, Xavier Scheuer wrote:
>  > 2010/5/11 Graham Percival :
>  >
>  > > Yes.
>  >
>  > I assumed that Stefan's question was not only "is it possible to..."
>  > but that it also included the implicit question "and how?".
> 
>  Then he should have asked "how can I make lilypond print the first
>  bar number?".  To which my reply would have been "by reading the
>  very first snippet on the doc page about bar numbers.".
>  > Your answer was technically correct, but not that much helpful...
> 
>  Have I ever claimed to be interested in helping users who don't
>  look at the documentation?
> 
>  Cheers,
>  - Graham

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Re: first barnumber

[Graham Percival]

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 09:42:53PM +0200, Xavier Scheuer wrote:
> 2010/5/11 Graham Percival :
> 
> > Yes.
> 
> I assumed that Stefan's question was not only "is it possible to..."
> but that it also included the implicit question "and how?".

Then he should have asked "how can I make lilypond print the first
bar number?".  To which my reply would have been "by reading the
very first snippet on the doc page about bar numbers.".

> Your answer was technically correct, but not that much helpful...

Have I ever claimed to be interested in helping users who don't
look at the documentation?

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: first barnumber

[Graham Percival]

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 07:08:44PM +0200, Stefan Thomas wrote:
>is it possible to force lilypond to show the number of the first bar?

Yes.

Cheers,
- Graham

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Re: Website "easier editing"

[Graham Percival]

On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 12:54:39PM +0200, Valentin Villenave wrote:
> I think it's fine the way it is now. Perhaps I wouldn't place Denemo
> above LilyPondTool, although it does make sense to regroup LPT with
> Frescobaldi.
> 
> (Actually, what I *would* do is emphasize LPT, perhaps with a big
> [RECOMMENDED] sign.)

Why not recommend Frescobaldi?  I'm not comfortable placing a
semi-official seal of approval on either one at the expense of the
other.

> Now that I'm looking again at these pages, the pseudo-Windows logo
> doesn't strike me as self-explanatory (besides its specific touch of
> ugliness). Would you be ready to consider using a different one, such
> as
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Image-Vista_Like_logo.png
> or
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Windows.svg
> or
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Win-like-userbox.svg
> ?

Hmm.  I've never used xp or vista, so I'm not so familiar with the
pastel colors.  I have no real objection to changing, though.

... wait a moment, isn't Windows.svg the same as what we already
have? ... oh, ok, the current one has thick black borders.
*shrug*

I'll accept a patch for this.  You'll want to update the png file
and the copyright info in whichever macro file I put it in (can't
remember).

> > When he began working, he had one opinion and I had the other.
> > But over the past four months, we've switched positions like a
> > finely-honed comedy act -- we still disagree, but we've both taken
> > up the other person's initial position.
> 
> Wait - so you're saying you *can* change your mind at times? :-)

If it makes things awkward and delays an aspect of website work
for 4 months, sure!

Cheers,
- Graham

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Website "easier editing"

[Graham Percival]

Hi all,

Colin Campbell has been working with me on the Introduction of the
new website.  However, we're still debating what to do with the
"Easier editing" page:
http://lilypond.org/website/easier-editing.html

In particular, should we:
  1) list all programs that help or produce lilypond input code on
 this page, or

  2) only list a few programs here and list the rest elsewhere?
 (probably somewhere in Usage, with a link from this page
 to that location)

When he began working, he had one opinion and I had the other.
But over the past four months, we've switched positions like a
finely-honed comedy act -- we still disagree, but we've both taken
up the other person's initial position.

The argument for #1: we have a unified place for people to look;
it's easier to update; it's easier to find; etc.

The argument for #2: it doesn't make sense to have algorithmic
programming environments like Strasheela and FOMUS in the same
list as Denemo, Frescobaldi, and LilyPondTool; having the extra
options will only confused newbies; if we keep 4 or 5
"highlighted" programs in this list and move the rest somewhere
else, it won't be much harder to maintain the list; etc.


I'm not particularly looking for votes on this issue -- rather,
I'm looking for reasons for (or against) #1 and #2 that we haven't
thought of.  It would be great if somebody said "we should do #x
because XYZ" and then have us go "of course!  XYZ!  That makes
everything totally clear; we all agree due to XYZ."


If you have other concerns about the website, please don't mention
them here.  I'll be posting other questions once this issue is
resolved.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Accidental not properly notated in score

[Graham Percival]

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Patrick McCarty  wrote:
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:27 AM, Francisco Vila  wrote:
>>
>> Now a bit more seriously: Does anyone receive each other's messages?

I haven't received the messages that I haven't received.

> For the past day or so, I've been seeing huge delays in the delivery
> of list messages to my inbox (Gmail), so maybe you are experiencing
> the same thing?

I'm seeing it here.  The delay, I mean.  Not your email.  I mean, yes,
I saw your email, but not delayed.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: One score per track of a midi file?

[Graham Percival]

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 2:20 AM, Bill Moorier  wrote:
> Is there a list of known defects of midi2ly somewhere?  If any of it
> is low-hanging stuff, I might be able to contribute some time to make
> it better.

Not really; it's been basically unsupported for 5 years or so;
nobody's bothered keeping a list of problems.

There's these two issues:
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=834
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=839
but I'm sure there's many more known, or "previously known but now
forgotten" issues.  I think there's also some TODOs in the python
script itself.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: [PATCH] Re: syntax change for \cresc

[Graham Percival]

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 09:35:02AM +0200, Xavier Scheuer wrote:
> But then I was informed of Graham's #(make-dynamic-extra ...) function,
> which I use now and which has no drawback at all (to what I know).
> 
>   – the dynamic is considered as a dynamic (in MIDI output too);
>   – the dynamic is correctly aligned (X-centered on the note), without
> having to play with "translate" values (huge improvement compared
> to solution 5);
>   – no other drawback.

IIRC it has one drawback:
  - it "reserves" blank space in front of the "mp dolce" (in
particular, half the length of the "mp dolce")

I forget exactly why, but I ran into this problem a few months
after I started using it.  In many cases it doesn't matter, though
(which is why I didn't discover it for months).

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: \cresc question

[Graham Percival]

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 08:46:41AM +0200, Martin Tarenskeen wrote:
>
> I'm trying to this with Lilypond 2.13.19:
>
>   \relative c' { c1\mf | d\cresc | e | f\ff }
>
> Nothing special I would say. But after compiling the "cresc." is placed  
> below the e in the third bar instead of below the d in the second bar.
> I don't understand.

\cresc currently applies to the note after it's given.  We've been
discussing a patch to change this for a year or so.  It'll
probably be applied in the next week; see discussion on
lilypond-devel for details.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Expressive Notation Package (ENP)

[Graham Percival]

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 07:11:22PM +0200, Joseph Wakeling wrote:
> Bernardo Barros wrote:
> > I wonder why not just work with Lilypond, or even modify Lilypond if
> > necessary to atend contemporary notation. It's easier to humans to
> > understad and it's already working ok :-) Maybe it has to do with the
> > render time
> 
> The 'Sibelius Academy' mention is probably the clue there.  I think the
> people involved were interested in developing a proprietary commercial
> project, which is kind of difficult with a Lilypond derivative.

That's a rather large fail.  "Sibelius Academy" is a university.
http://www.siba.fi/en/

You might recall that Sibelius was a composer?  A rather famous
composer from Finland?  In fact, some people might say "the *only*
famous composer from Finland?  (no offense intended to Fins)
Scarce wonder that they named a university after him!


> I think that one can probably do with Lilypond anything that this
> package does, it's just that some of it will require more custom scheme
> code than other stuff.  I know that there have been some pretty
> spectacular things done by some clever members of this list (see the
> discussion some weeks back comparing Lilypond with SCORE).

The ENP format is based on lisp.  It's much easier for a computer
to parse and create those files than "normal" lilypond files
(somebody could work in lilypond entirely in scheme, but
formatting a score that way would be quite odd).  There's a
graphical front-end for ENP... if you wanted to write music in it
manually, you'd use a mouse.  But the main purpose of ENP is for
constraint programming.

Since the focus is computer-generated music, the notation quality
isn't as good as lilypond's.  But nobody is pitching ENP as a
replacement for high-quality sheet music.  It's a program for
music notation, created from a real university, by real
researchers, made available for free.  They seem to have used a
non-free version of lisp to create binaries, but it's not clear if
you require those or whether you can just run the lisp directly.


I appreciate your enthusiasm for lilypond, but ENP does not
deserve your scorn.

- Graham


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Re: Expressive Notation Package (ENP)

[Graham Percival]

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 02:56:53PM +0200, Joseph Wakeling wrote:
> Kuuskankare, M (2009) ENP: a system for contemporary music notation.
> Contemporary Music Review 28(2): 221--235
> http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/07494460903322505

That's not new -- or rather, that's just the latest version.
There's published papers about it in 2006, 2004, 2001, and
possibly earlier.

> But it's interesting to see that Lilypond is proving influential among
> the mainstream commercial notation software providers ...

There's somewhere between 20 and 50 papers that cite lilypond;
just do a google scholar search for "lilypond music" or something
like that.  Many of them are merely using lilypond to generate
output for their music transcription programs, but there's also
things like "perllilypond" that specifically translates from one
data format (humdrum) into lilypond format.

I'm somewhat annoyed that almost none of these projects get in
touch with us (especially the filetype conversion ones!), but oh
well.  The new website will have a place for academic papers
citing lilypond, so hopefully if researchers see that list and
notice that their paper(s) is missing, they'll get in touch.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Writing Orchestral Parts

[Graham Percival]

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Joshua Armenta  wrote:
> New lilypond user, finally got rid of finale (thank god). My question is
> kind of dumb but I'm really confused about this.
> I have a large ensemble score finished (Brass Choir, Organ and Chorus) and I
> need to extract parts from this (can you tell I was a finale user for 7
> years?)

Please don't top-post, and read the Learning manual 3.4.5 Scores and parts.

I don't know why this section is hidden under 3.4 extending the
templates, but I'll look into this.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Spacing miserable failure

[Graham Percival]

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 11:25:07PM +0200, Joseph Wakeling wrote:
> Jacob Rau wrote:
> > Ah. You got it. Does anyone know of a more updated repo for Ubuntu? The 
> > version I've got is 2.12.2, the latest available through Ubuntu's software 
> > source. Blaah...this is making me wonder if I should use a distro that 
> > doesn't keep old software current...
> 
> Bottom line is, there's an opening if anyone wants to set up a Lilypond
> PPA for more up-to-date Ubuntu packages.  (I'd suggest two, one for the
> most up-to-date stable release, one for the development version.)

Is there a compelling reason not to use the precompiled binaries?
We've spent a lot of time and effort making these, and the
installation/uninstallation is easy.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Fretboard documentation

[Graham Percival]

Please keep the discussion on the mailing list.

As far as I can tell, none of those examples use \include
"english.ly".  If you're using that include, then you should have
seen:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/notation/writing-pitches#Note-names-in-other-languages

which includes a big warning about this.  This warning was present in
the 2.12 docs as well.


Unfortunately we cannot handle every instance of people putting
together bits and pieces of information from various sources.  If you
use some piece of input because you saw it on a blog or email, without
reading the appropriate part of the Notation reference, there's little
we can do.

If you have detailed suggestions for a fix, I'm more than willing to
keep on discussing it, but I think the current docs are clear enough
about this issue.

Cheers,
- Graham

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 7:49 PM, T.Skeggs  wrote:
> Thank you, Graham
>
> That is the first time I have seen the requirement for the language
> "include" to go last.  Where is that documented?
>
> Certainly, when I move the offending phrase into the header as
>
>  \version
>  \include "predefined-guitar-fretboards.ly"
>  \include "english.ly"
>
> then all is roses.
>
>
> I find the documentation extremely confusing and can often find things once
> only.
> The 3-note chord snippet was found at:
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/snippets/templates#Templates
>
> then scrolling down to the blue header:
>
> Single staff template with notes lyrics chords and frets
>
> Quote: "Here is a simple lead sheet template with melody, lyrics, chords and
> fret diagrams."
>
> ( ... The first bit of the snippet sets lyrics ...)
>
> theChords = \chordmode {
> % insert chords for chordnames and fretboards here
>  c2 g4 c
> }
>
> ( ... The next bit of the snippet sets notes ...)
>
> \score {
>  <<
>   \context ChordNames { \theChords }
>   \context FretBoards { \theChords }
>   \new Staff {
>     \context Voice = "voiceMelody" { \staffMelody }
>   }
>   \new Lyrics = "lyricsI" {
>     \lyricsto "voiceMelody" \verseI
>   }
>   \new Lyrics = "lyricsII" {
>     \lyricsto "voiceMelody" \verseII
>   }
>  >>
>  \layout { }
>  \midi { }
>
>
> The fret diagrams as printed following this snippet are also 3-note.
> Is this the correct default, or does this snippet need to be updated to
> "include the include" ?
> If so, it also needs a warning about its placement, which should obviously
> not be where it is shown.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> The snippet that I used to resolve the 3-note chord problem was found in
>
> Notation Reference 2.12.3, Index page 595 :
>
> fret diagrams with chord names . . . . . .  230
>
> A introductory heading on page 230 states:
>
> Predefined fret diagrams
>
> Fret diagrams can be displayed using the FretBoards context. By default,
> the FretBoards context will display fret diagrams that are stored in a
> lookup table:
>  \include "predefined-guitar-fretboards.ly"
>  \context FretBoards {
>  \chordmode {
>  c1 d
>  }
>  }
>
>
> As quoted in my posting, the snippet used is from pages 230 & 231 :-
>
>
> Quote: It is common that both chord names and fret diagrams are displayed
> together.
> This is achieved by putting a ChordNames context in parallel with a
> FretBoards context and giving both contexts the same music.
>
> \include "predefined-guitar-fretboards.ly"
> mychords = \chordmode{
> c1 f g
> }
> <<
> \context ChordNames {
> \mychords
> }
> \context FretBoards {
> \mychords
> }
>>>
>
> So, unless I am using the documentation incorrectly, it can be considered a
> documentation bug, else is "pilot error".
>
> But then, I do not use Lilypond, I do battle with it.
>
> -
> - Original Message - From: "Graham Percival"
> 
> To: "Trevor Skeggs" 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Error using Fretboard in English
>
>
>> Is this a report of a problem in the docs, or a problem in
>> something you wrote yourself?
>>
>> Any language includes must go after other builtin lilypond
>> includes.  I can't find the string "Fretboard" in any of our
>> snippets, so I suspect the code below was written by you.  If you
>> fix the order, it should work.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> - Graham
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 03:40:38PM +, Trevor Skeg

Re: Vertical Spacing

[Graham Percival]

On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 02:42:16AM +0200, Francisco Vila wrote:
> I agree with you, there are no ready-to-use examples where they
> should. The notation manual is written in a reference style (not
> tutorial-style) and the tutorial does not cover these complexities.
> So we still have to find an intermediate place for things like these.

Nonsense, reference vs. tutorial doesn't apply here.  All we need
is somebody to follow the instructions on:
http://lilypond.org/website/help-us.html
because I have no clue how to use the new vertical spacing, and I
guarantee that the doc editors (who know even less than me) have
even less of a clue.  In fact, I wouldn't bet $10 that they even
*know* that there's a new vertical spacing algorithm.
(and they're still struggling to keep up with the amount of work;
I'm not in the slightest suggesting that they're not working hard)

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Vertical Spacing

[Graham Percival]

http://lilypond.org/website/help-us.html

It's under "Simple tasks"; follow the right link, then see "small
additions".

Cheers,
- Graham

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 06:26:22PM -0600, Walter Hofmeister wrote:
> Hi Xavier,
>   That was kind of my point. I had looked at that page in the manual and 
> several others, but there is no example of the syntax that Francisco has 
> provided. The example that is quoted there is as follows:
> 
> Example:
> 
> \paper {
>  paper-width = 2\cm
>  top-margin = 3\cm
>  bottom-margin = 3\cm
>  ragged-last-bottom = ##t
> }
> 
> This snippet is the most extensive one there and it suggests a syntax that is 
>  like the example that I provided. By the way this is the way it has been 
> done in previous versions and I for one thought this was a very user friendly 
> way of doing it. I tried the line that Francisco provided and it had no 
> effect here. Am I the only one this isn't working for? Thanks for your 
> suggestions and I apologize to the list members if some of this sounds like 
> it is blaming them for my frustration. I have been playing around with this 
> for about a month with no avail. I know that I should have asked sooner. 
> Anyway thanks for any help that you can provide.
> 
> Walter Hofmeister
> 
> 
> On 2010-04-22, at 5:31 PM, Xavier Scheuer wrote:
> 
> > 2010/4/23 Walter Hofmeister :
> >> Hi,
> >>I have been trying to get a handle on vertical spacing for
> >> a while now with no luck. Everything that I have tried since about
> >> 2.11 has not worked at all. Here is a sample of a test that I have
> >> made up:
> >> 
> >> [...]
> >> 
> >> Can anybody tell me what I am doing wrong? I have checked the
> >> archives and have found that this question is coming up but there
> >> have not been any explanations as to how the new spacing now works.
> >> The docs seem to be very much like the docs have always been in this
> >> section but I think that I am trying to do what they are suggesting
> >> but nothing seems to work. Any help in this regard would be much
> >> appreciated. Thanks.
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Vertical spacing syntax has changed for 2.13.
> > Please check 2.13 version of the doc:
> > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/notation/vertical-spacing#Vertical-spacing
> > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/notation/page-formatting#Vertical-dimensions
> > (second one explain better the new syntax).
> > 
> > See also the answer I gave here:
> > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2010-02/msg00393.html
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Xavier
> > 
> > --
> > Xavier Scheuer 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: error message from PDF viewer

[Graham Percival]

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 07:25:29PM +0200, Martin Tarenskeen wrote:
>
> OK. Here is a tiny example (attached).

Thanks!  This looks like a great report.  Bug squad, could
somebody add this to the tracker?

Cheers,
- Graham

> 1. I use Lilypond 2.13.18 on Fedora 12 to compile
> 2. I start Evince from my terminal to view the pdf. Looks fine to me.
> 3. I close Evince.
> 4. I see that Evince has left some messages in my terminal:
>
> ** (evince:8380): WARNING **: Failed to create dbus proxy for  
> org.gnome.SettingsDaemon: Could not get owner of name  
> 'org.gnome.SettingsDaemon': no such name
> Error: Illegal entry in bfrange block in ToUnicode CMap
> Error: Illegal entry in bfrange block in ToUnicode CMap
> Error: Illegal entry in bfrange block in ToUnicode CMap
> Error: Illegal entry in bfrange block in ToUnicode CMap
> Error: Illegal entry in bfrange block in ToUnicode CMap
> Error: Illegal entry in bfrange block in ToUnicode CMap
>
> Press ENTER or type command to continue
>
> -- 
>
>
> Martin Tarenskeen

> \version "2.13.18"
> 
> upper = \relative c' { \clef treble c1 } 
> lower = \relative c { \clef bass c1 }
> dynamics = { s1\mf }
> 
> \score {
>   \new PianoStaff {
> <<
>   \new Staff { \upper }
>   \new Dynamics { \dynamics }
>   \new Staff { \lower }
> >>
>   }
>   \layout {}
> }
> 



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Re: error message from PDF viewer

[Graham Percival]

We don't want to see any copyrighted file; quite apart from the
legal issue, that would be too long.  Please create a tiny
example:
http://lilypond.org/website/tiny-examples.html

Cheers,
- Graham


On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 06:34:26PM +0200, Martin Tarenskeen wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> When I load a PDF file I just created from a Lilypond score, starting my  
> viewer (Evince) from the commandline, I see several messages on my  
> terminal saying:
>
> Error: Illegal entry in bfrange block in ToUnicode CMap
>
> It does not seem to hurt much since my score looks fine. But did anyone  
> see this message before. Does anyone know where it could be coming from ?
>
> I could attach the lilypond source file, but it is copyrighted material 
> so if anyone needs it for bughunting/fixing I would rather send it via  
> private mail.
>
> -- 
>
> Martin Tarenskeen
>
>
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Re: Bookpart without page break?

[Graham Percival]

On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 01:04:38AM +0200, Xavier Scheuer wrote:
> 2010/4/17 Nick Payne :
> 
> > No, the header blocks need to go at the end of the score blocks,
> > after the music.

More precisely, a score block must start with a music expression;
everything else can be ordered as desired.

> Since the header will be printed *above* the score, one could expect
> the \header block to be (within \score but) *above* the music
> expression...

\header includes tagline and copyright, which does not go above a
score.

> Of course I have no idea of all that "development stuff" that implied
> this "limitation" but one would appreciate if someone could maybe think
> about this again, for the next major release for example.

If you bring it up during GLISS, it will be considered.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Bookpart without page break?

[Graham Percival]

(sorry, forgot to send to list)

It's there.

gperc...@gperciva-desktop:~/src/lilypond/Documentation/notation$ git
grep print-all-headers
input.itely:@funindex print-all-headers
input.itely:  print-all-headers = ##t
spacing.itely:@item print-all-headers
spacing.itely:@funindex print-all-headers


A complete revision of the spacing chapter has been desirable and
planned for some time, but will definitely not happen until GDP 2.

Cheers,
- Graham

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 11:13 AM, James Lowe  wrote:
> Is this is the doc? I took a quick scan (NR 3.1.2 and 3.1.3) and this sounds
> like it should go in here somewhere.
>
> I don't pretend to know about header blocks but if you think this would be
> good to add I can do that, if you point me where you think it should go.
>
> Francisco Vila wrote:
>>
>> 2010/4/16 Nick Payne :
>>>
>>> I experimented with using \score only, but I couldn't get the headers to
>>> display (with centred title and right-justified composer) for each piece.
>>> I
>>> eventually found that I had to add print-all-headers = ##t to the \paper
>>> block to get the header for each piece to display.
>>
>> Yes, and in order to avoid repeated printing of the first title (score
>> title = book title), put your header blocks after score blocks, for
>> each score.
>>
>
>
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Re: EPS file expression

[Graham Percival]

(sorry, forgot to send to the list)

Yes, the eps file must be in the same directory as the ly file.
Double-check that you have the right filename, and if you're on
certain operating systems, double-check that you have the correct
capitalization.  (in particular, watch out for eps vs. EPS)

Cheers,
- Graham


On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Bernardo Barros
 wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I'm trying to use the method \epsfile to make some of the symbols I need to
> use.
> Should I put the files in the same folder of the .ly file, shouldn't I?
> I'm having this error:
>
> Interpreting music...
> Preprocessing graphical objects...
> error: cannot find file: `circular-cheio.eps' (load path:
> `/Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/share/lilypond/current/fonts/svg/:/Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/share/lilypond/current/fonts/type1/:/Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/share/lilypond/current/fonts/otf/:/Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/share/lilypond/current/scm:/Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/share/lilypond/current/ps:/Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/share/lilypond/current/ly:')
>
>
> HERE IS THE INPUT FILE
> \version "2.12.3"
> \paper {
>   #(define dump-extents #t)
>
>   indent = 0\mm
>   line-width = 160\mm
>   force-assignment = #""
>   line-width = #(- line-width (* mm  3.00))
> }
> \layout {
>
> }
> { c'4-\markup { \epsfile #X #10 #"circular-cheio.eps" } }
>
> Processing `teste.ly'
> Parsing...
> teste.ly:0: warning: no \version statement found, please add
>
> \version "2.12.3"
>
>
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Re: \musicglyph

[Graham Percival]

Notation Appendix A.6 The Feta font

This is given on the doc page about \musicglyph.  Why was it difficult to find?

- Graham

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Bernardo Barros
 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Where can I find in the Manual a complete list of the expressions I can use
> with \musicglyph?
> Like here:
> c^\markup{\musicglyph #"flageolet"}
> Thanks,
> Bernardo
>
>
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Re: Special metronome marks

[Graham Percival]

On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 09:22:09AM +0200, Carsten Steger wrote:
> Xaiver, Graham,
> 
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Xavier Scheuer  wrote:
> > On 5 April 2010 12:19, Graham Percival  wrote:
> >> An example of this is in LSR.  Try searching for "jazz tempo" or
> >> something ilke that.
> >
> > Rhythm marks / play style indication
> > http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=204
> 
> thank you very much! This works like a charm.
> 
> This kind of notation is fairly common in drumming. Is there a chance
> that the functions in http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=204 (or
> something similar) could be made an official part of LilyPond?

You could be suggesting two different things:
1) include this snippet in our official docs.  That's definitely
possible, although it'll take about two weeks.

2) include the functions in lilypond itself.  That would require
an advanced user to contribute the scheme, probably sparking a
discussion about what to do with such "useful functions", which
will prompt me to yell at everybody about how we've been talking
about this kind of a thing for 3 years but nobody's willing to
take charge of it.
The second option *could* be done, but we're probably looking at a
2-6 month timeframe.


I'll begin #1.  #2 is probably going to wait until GOP, which will
start some time after 2.14 is out.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Dividing (or multiplying) note lengths?

[Graham Percival]

On Fri, Apr 09, 2010 at 04:02:07PM +0200, Reinhold Kainhofer wrote:
> No, I suppose someone changed the snippet's setting to a full snippet (i.e. 
> notice that the height is not the height of a full page, wasting lot of 
> vertical space).  By default, only the first systems is extracted, unless the 
> snippet author or editor checks that box...
> It's really weird that by default only the first system is extracted, though.

Well, as you said, displaying a full page can waste a lot of
vertical space.  If a search displays 10 items but 90% of the
images are blank space, it would be annoying to scroll through the
results.

If somebody wants to improve this, they could get the download the
LSR source code (which may or may not be the latest version),
change the settings so it uses whatever we use for the docs, etc.
But this would be a fairly involved process for relatively little
gain -- say, 10 hours for somebody like me.  Multiply/divide this
value as appropriate based on your perception of my abilities.  :)

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: \partial after \cadenzaOff

[Graham Percival]

On Tue, Apr 06, 2010 at 06:59:30PM +0200, Mats Bengtsson wrote:
>
> Werner wrote:
>> I got problems with \partial after \cadenzaOff, which is ignored for three of
>> four voices.
>> In the DOC i found:
>>
>> The \partial command is intended to be used only at the beginning of a 
>> piece. If
>> you use it after the beginning, some odd warnings may occur.   
> I have tried hard over the years to understand what these "odd warnings"  
> or other problems could be. I've never had any problems myself to use  
> \partial in the middle of a piece and I cannot recall any problems  
> reported on the mailing lists either.

Somewhere between 3 and 7 years ago, there was discussion about a
warning or bug concerning \partial in the middle of a piece, and
Han-Wen said something like "don't do that".  I didn't understand
the discussion, but clearly something had to be done, so I added
the "some odd warnings" remark.

Anybody who wants to research this should figure out when I added
it to the docs, then look at the mailing lists in the previous
week or two; the answer should be there.  Alternatively, just
search the mailing lists directly.

Estimated time: 2 hours.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: using Feta font in a research project/HTML5 canvas?

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 10:50:43PM +, Geoff Chirgwin wrote:
> Since our first implementation is in HTML5, we needed a
> lightweight way to render music notation to the HTML5 canvas
> entirely client-side in the browser.  Since we know of no
> existing software that does this, we've started writing our own.
> We're calling it Rastral.  

This is probably going to be an order of magnitude more work than
you think it will, unless you have a very strict feature set in
mind.  For example, if you only want to deal with pitches,
durations without tuplets, articulations, and slurs without caring
about collisions, then I think it would work.  If you want to do
much more than this, I wouldn't be surprised if Rastral ended up
being more work than the handwriting recognition part.


> There are two immediate questions about licensing (which may spark more):
> 1) Is it permissible to embed the Feta font in a web page and/or redistribute 
> it?
> 2) Is it permissible to embed fetaList.cxx in a web page and/or redistribute  
> it? (we're using this for the font name to code point mappings, and, believe 
> it
> or not, it interprets verbatim as Javascript)
> 
> We're assuming we'll GPL Rastral.

Don't just assume this -- decide on it right now.

- if you put Rastral under GPLv3, then there are no problems using
  portions of LilyPond.  However, if you (or your university)
  wants to commercialize your work, there might be problems with
  GPLv3 software.

- if you put Rastral under GPLv2, you can only use feta stuff from
  a few months ago; the later material is under GPLv3.  This
  could give you more leeway with "web apps" if the rendering
  is done server-side.  Since you've explicitly mentioned
  client-side rendering, though, this point is moot.
  The same problems with potential commercializations apply.

- if Rastral is not going to be GPL'd, then you certainly cannot
  use fetaList.cxx, and off the top of my head I doubt that
  you could use Feta either.  (I don't claim to be certain
  about the latter point)


> We're not expert in software licensing, but  we're hoping to
> release this software in the spirit of open source, in such a
> way that the Lilypond developers approve and that the community
> as a whole may benefit.  Any input on this is appreciated.

I would recommend GPLv3, then -- but make sure that your
collaborators agree to this as well, before progressing too much
further in this project.


On a personal note, I'm a PhD student in the Center for Music
Technology at the University of Glasgow, and I'm quite interested
in this work -- both as a user, but also as a potential developer.
I'm currently generating notation for musician listening
experiments using flash, but this is a quite unsatisfactory state
of affairs, both from a licensing/openness standpoint, but also
from an ease-of-development standpoint.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Special metronome marks

[Graham Percival]

An example of this is in LSR.  Try searching for "jazz tempo" or
something ilke that.

Cheers,
- Graham

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Carsten Steger
 wrote:
> I'm trying to create a metronome mark in LilyPond like the one in the
> attached file, which indicates that two eighth notes should be
> interpreted as eighth note triplets, but have failed so far. I am
> aware from sections 1.6.3 and 1.8.2 of the Notation Reference Manual
> that single notes can in principle be placed into a \markup command.
> However, I have been unable to find out how I can create two barred
> eighth notes or the triplet notation with \note commands in a \markup
> command.  Any suggestions will be much appreciated.
>
> Best regards, Carsten Steger
>
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Re: Major version: LilyPond 2.14.0 released!

[Graham Percival]

On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 01:57:07AM +0200, Reinhold Kainhofer wrote:
> Am Freitag, 2. April 2010 01:11:29 schrieb Graham Percival:
> > On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 04:15:18PM +0200, Nils Gey wrote:
> > > It seems the real joke is "Release Early, Release Often" in the
> > > same sentence as lilypond.
> > 
> > In the past 5 months, we've had an
> > average of one release every 2 weeks.
> 
> I suppose what Nils meant was not that we have 2.13.x *unstable* *developer* 
> releases every fortnight, but rather that we have stable releases about every 
> two years (of course, not counting the minor releases, which mainly backport 
> fixes to serious problems)...

"Release early, release often" is specifically aimed at developers
-- get the code out there, let people play around with it, let
them help find+fix bugs.  That phrase as **nothing** to do with
stable releases for normal users.

If people want a stable release, they can take a look at the 15
critical issues.  Once those are down, we can announce a beta and
find approximately 5 more critical issues.  Then we'll have a
second beta, and probably discover 2 more issues.  Then we'll have
a third beta, find no more critical issues within two weeks, and
then release 2.14.0.

But this whole process doesn't get off the ground until the
current crop of release-critical issues are fixed.

Cheers,
- Graham


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