Re: Sibelius Software UK office shuts down
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 07:24:06 -0600 > From: Neil Thornock > To: han...@xs4all.nl > Cc: "m...@apollinemike.com" , > Lilypond-User > > Subject: Re: Sibelius Software UK office shuts down > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >> It is easy to see how these events could help lilypond long-term, but >> it's also easy for any response from us to be interpreted negatively. >> Let the Sibelius users have their personal moment of pain/mourning; if >> they need open-source music notation, they will certainly be able to >> find us without our help. > >> From my perspective, the loss of Sibelius is bad for *everyone* with a > stake in music. I never used Sibelius; I never liked it. But many did, > and many found their first creative voice through the software. I > don't think its retraction will leave a void that will simply be > filled by something else. > > It's a possible sign that music -- the type many of us are involved in > -- is losing in the greater culture war. It's not "LilyPond vs > Sibelius vs Finale" but rather "Quality Music vs Cheap > Entertainment." Uncompromising artistic discipline certainly has its pedagogical usefulness, but when Orwellian concepts begin to creep in-- like a vague war apparently dragging on for decades yet with heroes in perpetual danger of defeat-- maybe it's time to come out of the woodshed. > > We're losing. War is Peace. :) -Jonathan > > -- > Neil Thornock, D.M. > The recent premiere of ...and a bunch of other stuff: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQtvPet3k8c > Assistant Professor of Music > Composition/Theory > Brigham Young University > > > > -- > > ___ > lilypond-user mailing list > lilypond-user@gnu.org > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user > > > End of lilypond-user Digest, Vol 117, Issue 20 > ** > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Appreciation / Financial support
> Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 20:33:47 +0200 > From: David Kastrup > To: Janek Warcho? > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Appreciation / Financial support > Message-ID: <87hauty35g@fencepost.gnu.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Janek Warcho? writes: > >> On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Graham Percival >> wrote: >>> On Sat, Jun 02, 2012 at 04:38:24PM +0200, Janek Warcho? wrote: So, apologies - and where can i read detailed policies? >>> >>> Detailed policy is pretty much exactly what is shown on that >>> webpage, >> >> ok. I think that adding a /small/ donation progress bar in David's >> description wouldn't be a violation of the rules. But i don't > insist. >> End of discussion :) > > I'll probably see whether I manage to create some 250-byte ASCII-art > "progress bar" "donation" "home" page that does > not pose much of a risk > of blowing the transfer limits of some zero-cost site if it is _that_ > important to people. Sorry, I missed this message... Ok, so the messages I've taken away so far are, "Lilypond Website Commercialism Danger! Battlestations", and, "You can already sneak into my room and leave money in my sock drawer, why do I need to draw you a website?" It'd be nice if someone else (i.e., not me) figured out a user-friendly way for people to donate money to the Lilypond devs without having the entire donation eaten up in the fees accrued from time spent trying to interact with them. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Appreciation / Financial support
- Original Message - > From: Francisco Vila > To: Jonathan Wilkes > Cc: "lilypond-user@gnu.org" > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 4:26 AM > Subject: Re: Appreciation / Financial support > > 2012/6/12 Jonathan Wilkes : >> I think if Lilypondtool or Frescobaldi would allow you to >> >> click-drag some of the grobs like dynamics and markup in the >> >> preview pdf and automatically insert code to make the tweak, >> >> that would be huge. > > LilyPondTool already does this. Click-dragging to generate code is different from click-dragging, clicking, selecting a context from a long list for which the default has no relationship to what I just clicked, selecting a grob from a long list for which the default has no relationship to what I just clicked, selecting a property, then clicking "write to score". Then doing it again for every grob I want to move even if they are all, say, dynamic scripts, because the dialog window resets each time. Having the dialog window remember my settings would go a long way to making the tool more useful. -Jonathan > > -- > Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) > www.paconet.org , www.csmbadajoz.com > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Appreciation / Financial support
>Message: 7 >Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:21:08 -0500 >From: Ivan Kuznetsov >To: Tim McNamara >Cc: lilypond-user Users >Subject: Re: Appreciation / Financial support >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >Music notation is complex. Any ASCII representation of >music notation likewise has to be complex. >Any simplification of lilypond syntax must mean a removal >of features. > >The only other alternative is to use a WYSIWYG >editor where you "draw" the musical notation you >want, and good luck waiting for an flexible open-source >version of such a program with quality output. See Musescore. It uses Lilypond's Feta Font and has the look and feel of Sibelius. > >Or maybe Frescobaldi will someday evolve to something >like this, I have yet to investigate the interface. I think if Lilypondtool or Frescobaldi would allow you to click-drag some of the grobs like dynamics and markup in the preview pdf and automatically insert code to make the tweak, that would be huge. (Plus maybe some way to click-drag an entire system to tweak vertical spacing, though after looking at the notation manual I have no idea how that could be achieved.) -Jonathan > >P.S. Perl was a bad example, but the latex comparison >was valid. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages
- Original Message - > From: Graham Percival > To: Jonathan Wilkes > Cc: "lilypond-user@gnu.org" > Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 2:09 PM > Subject: Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages > > On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 10:49:28AM -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: >> > From: David Kastrup >> > >> > The important border >> > is that between LilyPond and Scheme. Here is where empowerment of the >> > user happens. Or not. >> >> Can you explain a little about how that empowerment happens? > > Users can change the behaviour of lilypond without recompiling. > That is useful because 99% of users do not have a development > system set up. Lilypond "ships" with a scheme interpreter. So you're talking about users being able to plug in solution given to them by a developer directly in an .ly file, right? > > Now can you two please take this discussion to private mail? Nope. > I don't think it's going anywhere. Then do something you find more productive during the time you would have been reading this thread. -Jonathan > > - Graham > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages
> Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 00:03:10 +0200 > From: David Kastrup > To: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages > Message-ID: <8762b0ta75@fencepost.gnu.org> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Jonathan Wilkes writes: > >> This doesn't go at all toward one solution or the other, but it does >> strongly point to this being a dev issue and not a user issue. > > It depends on whether you consider the distinction between "dev" and > "user" to be branded on people's foreheads. Then you can state > things > like "to extend, you should be able to recompile", but even with the > most caste-conscious division between devs and users, this does not work > as a community concept: because then the devs will not be able to help > individual users with code snippets, when the latter can't compile them. > > In LilyPond, the Scheme reader and interpreter is just a # away. The > line between LilyPond users and people extending LilyPond with Scheme is > much more fuzzy and gradual than the line between those extending > LilyPond with Scheme and those doing it with C++. > > Most of the proposals about juggling extension languages are focusing on > the C++/Scheme border. That's not the important one for the community > aspect. At least not its details, but rather how far away from the user > you can push it by extending the reach of Scheme. The important border > is that between LilyPond and Scheme. Here is where empowerment of the > user happens. Or not. Can you explain a little about how that empowerment happens? ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2012 18:13:40 +0800
> From: James Harkins
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Scheme syntax vs. other languages
> Message-ID: <87zk8ew1pn.wl%jamshar...@dewdrop-world.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>> > D is obviously the wrong fit for an lp extension language, but scheme
>> > has a couple of strikes against it right from the start.
>>
>> Sure, it requires getting into. Not that D doesn't. The rules of
>> Scheme syntax can be learnt in one afternoon. The syntax may not
>> exactly resemble mathematical notation or plain language, but it is
>> simple and regular. If we were out for natural language, our extension
>> language for LilyPond would be COBOL.
>>
>> Scheme has a low lexical and syntactical impact, and the price for that
>> is a uniform syntax, and a uniform syntax has few structuring visual
>> elements. One payback for that is that you can do syntax
>> transformations in a predictable and reliable way.
>
> I'm certainly in no position to argue for another extension language for LP
> -- just saying up front that isn't the purpose of this e-mail. Just throwing
> an opinion into the pot.
>
> In my SuperCollider work, more and more I prefer a coding style that favors
> legibility over concision. Many people use SC for live coding, where
> concision
> is more important -- you have to be able to type the code FAST in front of an
> audience. As a result, SC is full of syntax sugar, some of it quite lovely,
> some
> of it obscure. You can create a new array with 10 random numbers concisely
> like
> this -- { rrand(1, 10) } ! 10 -- but lately I prefer to write the more
> "canonical" syntax Array.fill(10, { rrand(1, 10) }). Someone
> unfamiliar with SC can make a reasonable guess what Array.fill does, but ! is
> opaque.
>
> I find scheme to be impossible to read without an editor that highlights
> matching brackets. I can start to make sense out of it once the editor shows
> me
> which () belong together. That's an obstacle -- it pushes learning lisp into
> the category of Things I Really Ought to Do Someday If for No Reason Other
> Than
> Building Character. I may yet do that for LP and/or Emacs, but it's
> intimidating -- and if it's intimidating for me, I expect it's more so
> for other LP users.
There's a distinction to be made between Lilypond's core philosophy and those
of
the sound tweaking environments of SC, PD, ChucK, etc. Lilypond is supposed to
tweak so that the user doesn't have to. If a user in Pd or SC continually
posts to the
list asking for solutions because they don't understand core programming
concepts
they will (hopefully gently) be pushed toward documentation
that educates them on how to _program_ what they want based on a better
understanding
of the language. Granted Lilypond users must understand core markup to make a
score, but if they are pushed toward learning Scheme _programming_ concepts in
order to get a good looking score it's a breach of the core philosophy.
(Unless of
course what they want to notate is so obscure or difficult that tweaks are
inevitable,
but even then Lilypond devs are really good at providing proofs of concept for
weird
things like systems that go in a circle and other crazy stuff.) That holds no
matter what
the extension language is.
The affected group here is the above-average users who want to become Lilypond
mavens.
I don't know how to measure the trade-off between changing the language in the
hopes of
easier future extension development and sticking with what's already there.
Personally I
find Scheme really hard to understand, and I understand some C, Perl, Tcl, and
a few others.
But I don't think my opinion matters because I shouldn't _need_ to do much of
anything with an
extension language directly. I'm going to take advantage of whatever is here
on the list, the
snippets, and in the docs and stick to doing what Lilypond claims I should be
doing-- entering
the content of my piece in markup. I think I'm like most users, and it should
be taken into
account that if the extension language does change, or gets improved to become
more
expressive, we're not going to care until those changes eventually make the
common tasks
of entering musical content easier.
This doesn't go at all toward one solution or the other, but it does strongly
point to this being
a dev issue and not a user issue.
-Jonathan
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re:Appreciation / Financial support (David Kastrup)
> Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 15:47:54 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jonathan Wilkes > To: "lilypond-user@gnu.org" > Subject: Re: lilypond-user Digest, Vol 115, Issue 5 > Message-ID: > <1338590874.40885.yahoomail...@web39406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >> Message: 5 >> Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2012 22:19:47 +0200 >> From: David Kastrup >> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org >> Subject: Re: Appreciation / Financial support >> Message-ID: <87pq9izsws@fencepost.gnu.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Jonathan Wilkes writes: >> >> [blah blah blah and quotation of entire digest] oops, sorry about that! -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: lilypond-user Digest, Vol 115, Issue 5
> Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 22:20:40 +0100 > From: Graham Percival > To: Janek Warcho? > Cc: David Kastrup , lilypond-user@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Appreciation / Financial support > Message-ID: <20120601212040.GA24998@gperciva-desktop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > [...] > > Actually, it seems a > shame that most of his funding details are buried in the lilypond > reports, so on a personal level I'd encourage him to have some > more "permanent" place for the latest funding info. I agree! I know at least two other people who would have used Lilypond before, and for me to be able to send them a link with the little bar showing funding info for a guy trying to dev full time and a "donate" button-- well, I'm sure they would give at least something. Anyway, that's very different than telling them to have a look at the list archive when they get a chance, which would surely get put on a tall pile of "todo" if I tried that. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: lilypond-user Digest, Vol 115, Issue 5
> Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2012 22:19:47 +0200 > From: David Kastrup > To: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Appreciation / Financial support > Message-ID: <87pq9izsws@fencepost.gnu.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Jonathan Wilkes writes: > >> You should have a look at the website for Ardour if you haven't >> already.? Paul has a little bar that fills up toward a monthly total, >> and has an easy donation method that is highly visible.? You might >> also want to get in touch with him to get some details on how that >> process has worked for Ardour. >> >> If you end up implementing something like that on the Lilypond >> website,?I'll donate the first $100. > > If we put a full-page ad for proprietary software on the LilyPond > website and offer only crippled binaries for Windows/MacOSX unless you > donate first, I'll be in wild protest. > > Anyway, I am _one_ developer of several, and it would be inappropriate > to turn the LilyPond website into a personal payment collector for > myself. And Paul Davis runs a decidedly larger part (and also has > larger responsibilities) with the Ardour show than I do with LilyPond. It doesn't have to be part of the Lilypond website. The link you already have could go to your own page that has the little bar I referred to and a button to make a donation through paypal. Of course that would require work and upkeep on your part. That's why I suggested contacting Paul-- maybe he can give you tips on what the easiest process is to set something like that up. (In fact I think there's a thread on the forum about just that topic.) -Jonathan > > -- > David Kastrup > > > > > -- > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 23:05:02 +0200 > From: Janek Warcho? > To: David Kastrup > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Appreciation / Financial support > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 10:19 PM, David Kastrup wrote: >> Anyway, I am _one_ developer of several, and it would be inappropriate >> to turn the LilyPond website into a personal payment collector for >> myself. ?And Paul Davis runs a decidedly larger part (and also has >> larger responsibilities) with the Ardour show than I do with LilyPond. > > David's right. However, i think it would be ok to add a "monthly > donations progress bar" on the sponsoring subpage > (http://www.lilypond.org/sponsoring.html), under David's name. > What do you think? To me this would be more like information than an ad. > > cheers, > Janek > > > > -- > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 22:20:40 +0100 > From: Graham Percival > To: Janek Warcho? > Cc: David Kastrup , lilypond-user@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Appreciation / Financial support > Message-ID: <20120601212040.GA24998@gperciva-desktop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > On Fri, Jun 01, 2012 at 11:05:02PM +0200, Janek Warcho? wrote: >> David's right. However, i think it would be ok to add a "monthly >> donations progress bar" on the sponsoring subpage >> (http://www.lilypond.org/sponsoring.html), under David's name. >> What do you think? To me this would be more like information than an ad. > > If David wants to have a webpage for additional sponsorship info, > he can sign up for a free amazon web service account and get > apache running. Or stick it on lilynet.net. Actually, it seems a > shame that most of his funding details are buried in the lilypond > reports, so on a personal level I'd encourage him to have some > more "permanent" place for the latest funding info. And lilynet > is a good place for "experimental" / "unofficial" stuff. > > But can we stop arguing about commercializing lilypond.org? As a > result of a fair amount of arguments, we have a sponsorship page. > Do you really want to re-open that debate? after only a few > months? I'm pretty sick of that topic. > > - Graham > > > > -- > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2012 17:53:00 -0400 > From: Louis Guillaume > To: lilyp...@umpquanet.com > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Multiple tensions in Chord Mode > Message-ID: <4fc939bc.1020...@zabrico.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 5/28/12 6:38 PM, lilyp...@umpquanet.com wrote: >> On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 09:48:29AM -0400, Louis Guillaume wrote: >>> >>> There is, however, one thing t
Re: Appreciation / Financial support
> Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2012 19:18:58 +0200 > From: David Kastrup > To: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Appreciation / Financial support > Message-ID: <87bol3osql@fencepost.gnu.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 > > Tim Roberts writes: > >> Kieren MacMillan wrote: Who is going to learn reading notes, let alone writing them? Of > course LilyPond is only for geeks, because it is just geeks who bother > with writing music rather than listening to it. >>> In other words, composers who use Lilypond are a [very, very small] >>> subset of a [very small] subset of all people. >> >> That is a completely accurate assessment. Given that, isn't it a >> wonder, when looking at this mailing list, that we can be so vocal and >> opinionated? > > Well, returning to the topic in the subject line: on May 24th, my rally > for funding my work on LilyPond had netted ?165 for the month when I > posted my guess that the bare minimum of ?800 I needed for just > subsisting would not be met this month. I have not yet corrected the > balance with regard to payments intended for more than one month, but it > turns out that the balance now is more like ?1150. > > Even the subset of the subset of the subset that is reading this mailing > list, vocal and opinionated or not, is making a difference for me, and > certainly also for LilyPond. And a large part of this difference _is_ > by being vocal and opinionated on this list. You should have a look at the website for Ardour if you haven't already. Paul has a little bar that fills up toward a monthly total, and has an easy donation method that is highly visible. You might also want to get in touch with him to get some details on how that process has worked for Ardour. If you end up implementing something like that on the Lilypond website, I'll donate the first $100. -Jonathan > > -- > David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: musescore lands sponsoring?
> Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 17:31:49 +0200 > From: David Kastrup > To: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Subject: Re: musescore lands sponsoring? > Message-ID: <87fwahu1lm@fencepost.gnu.org> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Carl Sorensen writes: > >> Jan Nieuwenhuizen gnu.org> writes: >> >> >>> Wouldn't LilyPond have been a technically superior choice for this >>> sponsoring project? What are we missing? >> >> Somebody who was willing to run a Kickstarter project and make it >> happen. > > It is not just that. There are also a few advantages: > > a) MusicXML export means the results are usable in a variety of notation > programs making use of an open standard. They can check-out any time they like, But can they ever leave? :) Let's say I look at their score and see some bad spacing among some set of sixteenths (and there is some bad spacing, btw). Then I see a glaring enharmonic spelling of a leading-tone that the MIDI-entry got wrong and the editors missed (also there, btw). Great, I say-- I'll just import the corresponding MusicXML into Finale or whatever, do the tweaks, then export so that I can send the patch back to the project for inclusion in the next version. Is music software X guaranteed to keep the rest of the score exactly the same, except for the parts I tweaked when I do the export back to MusicXML? If so, that's an impressive open standard. > > b) volunteers can be given a complete toolchain. "You can use an editor > of your choice" is about as helpful for the average musician as > "You > can use a lathe of your choice". > > c) "Ok, let's assume I have a MIDI keyboard hooked up to my computer > for > note entry. How do I go from there?" "Bring the keyboard back to > the > store. We are not going to use it anyway." > > d) "I am well-versed in LilyPond. What form do you want the entry in? > Can I use music functions? What note language should I be using? > Should the voicing be reflected in ad-hoc voices? Should I be using > anonymous parallel voices? What kind of context mods should I be > using?" "Uh, we better form a committee for that kind of > question." One thing I was thinking was that you could use tags in Lilypond to make editions. Let's say someone had some crackerjack fingerings from various concert pianists they collected. You could have all those available as pdfs while they all derive from the same codebase, so that when someone finally fixes the erroneous d-flat they only need to fix it once. But I don't see how you could do that with Musescore. If one wanted to add dynamics, for example, they'd be forced to fork the entire notation project and manually keep up with revisions to the original, no? -Jonathan > > -- > David Kastrup > > > > > -- > > ___ > lilypond-user mailing list > lilypond-user@gnu.org > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user > > > End of lilypond-user Digest, Vol 114, Issue 145 > *** > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Output for tablet or smartphone
Hello, 1) Has anyone printed out a pdf score for a tablet or smartphone that is just like one long roll? In other words, if you have voice and piano, it'd just be the two continuous staves in one long system, and the paper width would be however long it needs to be to fit everything onto one page. Then you could scroll horizontally with your finger to read the music. -Jonathan___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Suggestion for documentation: Easy path to datatype reference
> Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:32:28 +0800 > From: James Harkins > To: lily-users > Subject: Suggestion for documentation: Easy path to datatype reference > Message-ID: <87iph5ulcj.wl%jamshar...@dewdrop-world.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Along with the existing documentation about overrides and tweaks, it would be > helpful to have a page -- which is easy to find -- listing all the data types > and the syntax to write them. > > Example: Today, I was trying to write my own \override for the first time. > To make matters more challenging, I was in a caf? and their WiFi connection > was > not working. So, the only documentation I had available to me was the *info* > docs in Emacs. Eventually I found my way to grob-interface and extra-offset: > "It takes a pair of numbers"... /pair/ of numbers? No obvious entries > in the index, or looking through the table of contents of the learning > manual, > notation reference for internals reference. > > I only needed to move something down, so I gave up and used Y-offset. > > I got home, and an Internet search turned up the Scheme tutorial, which does > explain cons cells, so I finally found the syntax is (a . b). I didn't see > it in the table of contents because it goes down to second-level sections > (1.1, > 1.2 etc.) and the headings about datatypes are 1.1.3 and 1.1.4. > > Small issue, I guess -- it's possible to find the information with the help > of tools outside the documentation, but it is a bit of a usability issue: the > learning manual discusses tweaks, but appears not to be specific about the > syntax you will need to specify certain datatypes -- requiring external tools > and an internet connection to make the documentation useful. > > Or maybe it just irritated me and I want to complain :) Well it's definitely a pain. My favorites are booleans, which require one hash to denote scheme code, and one hash for the boolean. (Why not one more hash, for good measure?) Do you know about the internals reference? Here's the entry for "textscript", for example: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.14/Documentation/internals/textscript It shows you the defaults for each setting which show you the syntax to be usedin an override. -Jonathan > > FWIW, I'm throwing some quite complex multi-voice notation at Lilypond and > most of it is coming out beautifully, without manual intervention. So let me > balance the complaint with kudos for the excellent work of the developer team! > > James > > > -- > James Harkins /// dewdrop world > jamshar...@dewdrop-world.net > http://www.dewdrop-world.net > > "Come said the Muse, > Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted, > Sing me the universal." -- Whitman > > blog: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/words > audio clips: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/audio > more audio: http://soundcloud.com/dewdrop_world/tracks ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: full rest side effect
> > From: David Nalesnik >To: Jonathan Wilkes >Cc: "lilypond-user@gnu.org" >Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 10:34 AM >Subject: Re: full rest side effect > > >Hi Jonathan, > > >On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > >Oops, I sent this to lilypond@googlecode by mistake. Please ignore there... >> >>Hello, >>In the following example the left hand gets rhythmically augmented. >>What screwy thing am I doing? >>This score boilerplate was generated using LilypondTool and I removed the >>irrelevant parts. >> >> > > >In the absence of an explicit duration, LilyPond will continue to use the last >duration given it. So all the notes in the new Staff context are assigned a >dotted half times 2. Make the first note in the "LH" context a c4 > > >-David Thanks, David. I actually figured this out about 2 minutes after I posted. Some time ago someone posted a proposal for "best practices" on here-- one of them was to explicitly write the duration for the note at the beginning of each line. I started out doing that, then got lazy. But I got punished for that! -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
full rest side effect
Oops, I sent this to lilypond@googlecode by mistake. Please ignore there...
Hello,
In the following example the left hand gets rhythmically augmented.
What screwy thing am I doing?
This score boilerplate was generated using LilypondTool and I removed the
irrelevant parts.
Thanks,
Jonathan
% Created on Wed Mar 14 14:40:30 EDT 2012
\version "2.14.2"
staffPiano = \new PianoStaff {
\time 3/4
<<
\context Staff = "RH" { % Right hand
\clef treble
\key c \major
\relative c' {
c c c |
c c c |
R2.*2
}
}
\context Staff = "LH" { % Left hand
\clef bass
\key c \major
\relative c {
c c c |
c c c |
c c c |
c c c |
}
}
>>
}
\score {
<<
\staffPiano
>>
}
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Re: grace synchronization
Wow, this still isn't fixed? I'll put money towards this, too. -Jonathan - Original Message - > From: Kieren MacMillan > To: Lilypond-User Mailing List > Cc: Lilypond Bugreports > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 11:43 AM > Subject: grace synchronization > > Hello all, > > I'm running into a rather irritating grace synchronization problem — an > acciaccatura in one voice is overriding an explicit page break — and so I > wanted > to know what it would take to fix the grace sync problem "once and for > all". > > I know of Issue 34 (and others) in the tracker, but here's my explicit > question: What total bounty would cover a rewrite of the code so that grace > note > synchronization is not a concern at all for the user? I probably can't cover > the whole thing, but knowing exactly the scope of the problem might lead > others > [who are equally frustrated by this issue] to chip in and get the fix funded. > > Thanks! > Kieren. > ___ > bug-lilypond mailing list > bug-lilyp...@gnu.org > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How to parenthesize a time signature
Thanks Carl, that's exactly what I was looking for.
Something I tried naively at first:
\parenthesize
\time 4/4
But \parenthesize seems only to work for notes, rests, and chords.
-Jonathan
--- On Fri, 12/10/10, Carl Sorensen wrote:
> From: Carl Sorensen
> Subject: Re: How to parenthesize a time signature
> To: "Mark Polesky" , "lilypond-user@gnu.org"
> , "Jonathan Wilkes"
> Date: Friday, December 10, 2010, 1:06 AM
>
>
>
> On 12/9/10 8:28 AM, "Mark Polesky"
> wrote:
>
> > Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
> >> Is there a quick way to parenthesize a simple
> time
> >> signature?
> >
> > There's a quick way to bracketify a time signature:
> > http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=169
> >
> > To get real parentheses requires a little more
> tweaking.
> > Maybe someone who has already done this will chime
> in. If
> > not, I don't have time right now, but someone could
> tweak
> > the idea in this post to accomplish it:
> > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2009-05/msg00401.html
> >
> \version "2.13.42"
>
> \relative c'' {
> \override Staff.TimeSignature #'stencil = #(lambda
> (grob)
> (parenthesize-stencil
> (ly:time-signature::print grob) 0.1 0.4 0.4 0.1 ))
> \time 2/4
> a4 b8 c
> }
>
>
> HTH,
>
> Carl
>
>
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How to parenthesize a time signature
Greetings Lilypouncers, Is there a quick way to parenthesize a simple time signature? I'm not sure whether this is standard or not, but I used it once or twice at the beginning of a score that shows an excerpt from, say, the middle of a piece, to make it clear that the time signature also applied to the music leading up to the excerpt. (I think I used it a long time ago in a copy job for a musicologist, but I can't be sure.) Thanks, Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: bounties
Writing reports on deliverables isn't overhead, it's documentation of new features (which would have to be done anyway). Though presentations would certainly be overhead, as well as filling out forms, forms, forms... -Jonathan Message: 2 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 20:19:34 +0100 From: Graham Percival Subject: bounties To: Jan Nieuwenhuizen Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org, LilyPond Development Message-ID: <20100615191934.gb10...@sapphire> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 08:25:27PM +0200, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: > Op dinsdag 15-06-2010 om 16:50 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Graham > Percival: > > > That has been attempted before... hmm, 2007? Han-Wen tried to work on > > lilypond full-time, but there just wasn't enough people offering > > bounties > > I am considering to offer commercial support and may be able to do > that on a part-time basis. However, working on two bounties has > illustrated that bounty work can be quite tricky. Indeed; there's almost no relationship between the amount of work required and the amount of money being offered. > It would be very > nice for someone doing this for a hobby and getting to know LilyPond, > but commercial support requires some level of predictability. Actually, somebody pointed out (privately) that chasing bounties is less appealing for inexperienced developers: a $100 bounty could very well take you 50 hours to complete (i.e. if it's your first time working on spacing code), making the job $2 / hr. > Also, if the amount of work is not consistent but takes the form > of a few thousand euros once a year, you would be very lucky if I > (or whoever else would take this on) would happen to be available > within a reasonable time frame to work on those. Yes. I'm not trying to discourage people from offering bounties -- it's certainly better than nothing! However, there's very good reasons why programmers don't immediately start working on any issue that has a bounty being offered. One idea I've toyed with is seeking a grant to work on lilypond. Various governments and agencies give research grants; I'm pretty certain that we could get a grant to improve medieval chant notation or contemporary non-Western scales or whatnot. However, this would probably require - a bunch of grant applications - collaborating with some musicologists (i.e. a medieval chant expert, or John Cage scholar, or whatever) - overhead of writing reports about deliverables, giving presentations to people, etc. - etc. In the process of doing the specialized notation, the developer might fix a few "normal" bugs as well. If there was a concerted effort, particularly between the European academics involved with LilyPond, it could be done, and we might even be able to fund a full-time developer for 6 months or even a year. However, I'm not certain the effort would be worth it -- writing grants is a lot of work; we'd probably have to make multiple attempts; dealing with the administration of the grant would be a lot of work; etc etc. Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: lilypond GUI editors
Message: 3 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 08:07:59 -0400 From: Kieren MacMillan Subject: Re: lilypond GUI editors To: David Kastrup Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi David, > And you would not need one. Why is everybody so keen on being able to > do something he would rather not do out of his own volition? What if one's job is something one *would* do of one's one volition? > The whole point of machines is to not have to work. It's time our structures > cope with that. If they invented a computer that could compose music that I liked as much or more than the stuff I compose myself, I'd be very sad: I personally *want* to "work" as a composer, love my job, and would continue to do it even if I had no need to. Just saying. ;) Kieren. Hi Kieren, I think there would be some Xenophobia in your sadness. Well, I don't know that for sure: do you currently get sad when you hear a piece of music that you like better than something similar that you wrote yourself? Also, I don't think such a thing will happen any time soon. Most of the computer-generated music I've heard sounds like music created for the sole purpose of confusing people who know nothing about music into thinking they're hearing the same patterns as "normal" music. Then again, the boy Mozart knew how to fake it in the development section when the sight-reading test got too hard, so maybe charlatanism is just Step 1 of musical myth-building. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: transparent background in lilypond generated png's
--- On Sun, 4/11/10, Patrick McCarty wrote: > From: Patrick McCarty > Subject: Re: transparent background in lilypond generated png's > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Date: Sunday, April 11, 2010, 6:36 AM > On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 8:24 PM, > Jonathan Wilkes > wrote: > > Hello, > > I was curious if the transparent background for > png output ever > > got implemented. I'm using little lilypond excerpts > for a webpage I just > > started working on, and the background is a light-grey > gradient. > > > > The GIMP solution mentioned earlier in the thread > works just fine, but if > > it's possible to get the transparency through > Lilypond, that would save a > > step. > > > > Also, if it's not implemented and someone has the > chops to implement it, > > (and wouldn't mind implementing it), I can put some > money toward it. > > You could send a feature request to the bug-lilypond > mailing list. > > I might be interested in implementing this eventually, but > there is a > chance I'll forget unless it is on the bug tracker. > > Thanks, > Patrick > Ok, I sent a message to the bug list about this feature request. Thanks, Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: transparent background in lilypond generated png's
Hello, I was curious if the transparent background for png output ever got implemented. I'm using little lilypond excerpts for a webpage I just started working on, and the background is a light-grey gradient. The GIMP solution mentioned earlier in the thread works just fine, but if it's possible to get the transparency through Lilypond, that would save a step. Also, if it's not implemented and someone has the chops to implement it, (and wouldn't mind implementing it), I can put some money toward it. Thanks, Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lilypond vs Score
> Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:15:37 +0100 > From: Valentin Villenave > Subject: Re: Lilypond vs Score > To: Brett McCoy > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Brett McCoy > wrote: > > From http://www.scoremus.com/score.html > > Aarg. Please add a warning before posting such links > :) What kind of warning? I don't understand. > > As far as I'm concerned: LilyPond is Free Software, Score > is not. Period. > > Isn't life simple after all? :-) It's as simple as looking at the output examples on that website and saying, "Oh, it'd be neat to have a way to do curvy staff lines in Lilypond," or whatever your particular impression is. -Jonathan > > Cheers, > Valentin > > > > > -- > > ___ > lilypond-user mailing list > lilypond-user@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user > > > End of lilypond-user Digest, Vol 87, Issue 10 > * > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Lilypond vs Score
> -- > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:57:49 -0600 > From: Bobber > Subject: Lilypond vs Score > To: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Message-ID: <4b674e5d.3030...@kc0dxf.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; > format=flowed > > I have been having a discussion with a small publisher who > uses the > music manuscript program called Score. He says that > neither Lilypond or > Finale can produce engraving that is comparable to > Score. And that most > of the major music publishers in the world use Score. > > Is anyone familiar with Score and what makes it superior? > > -- > Bob Wooldridge > bob...@kc0dxf.net > blog: http://kc0dxf.net/blog/ I'm also curious to hear from anyone who has had experience using Score, and comparing to Lilypond output. There are some wacky examples of Score output at: http://www.scoremus.com/ (especially that deer standing on the staff! There needs to be an Animal_engraver in lilypond!) After seeing that output, I'm curious: has anybody played around in Lilypond with making the staff curve around (like forming a circle, or just bending down the page or something)? I'd like to be able to do that. Best, Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re:GUI
> From: Jonathan Wilkes > Subject: Re: lilypond-user Digest, Vol 85, Issue 56 > To: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Date: Friday, December 18, 2009, 11:02 PM > > Message: 5 > > Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:27:23 + > > From: Ian Hulin > > Subject: Re: GUI > > To: Graham Percival > > Cc: Jonathan Wilkes , > > lilypond-user@gnu.org > > Message-ID: <4b2b914b.7020...@hulin.org.uk> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; > format=flowed > > > > Hi Graham, > > > > On 18/12/09 09:38, Graham Percival wrote: > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 09:32:50PM -0800, > Jonathan > > Wilkes wrote: > > >>> If you can suggest an > > improvement, especially in the > > >>> Introduction pages, please > > do. > > >> > > >> LilyPondTool, Frescobaldi, Emacs and Vim are > > listed under > > >> "Alternate Input." Since this link is to > the > > right of "Text > > >> Input," the implication is that they are > > alternatives to text > > >> input, which of course is false: All the > > information under the > > >> "Text input" link applies to these programs. > > > > > > Hmm. I'm trying to tie these two together: > text > > input and > > > alternate input are both the same color, and end > in > > "input". > > > > > >> Maybe change "Alternate Input" to "Input > > software," or "Input > > >> programs," or "Progams, At least One of Which > You > > Will Use to > > >> Enter Your Scores if You At All Value Your > Time > > and Sanity." > > > > > > I'm willing to change the name, but I'm not > convinced > > that any of > > > thsoe are more attractive than "alternate > > input". More to the > > > point, the bottom of "text input" tries to > direct > > people there, > > > with the "easier editing environments" stuff. > > > > > > Hmm, on second thought, what about calling it > "Easier > > editing"? > > > That alliterates, so it gets a 20% bonus to its > > attractiveness. :) > > > > > The current /Alternative Input/ section really lists > > language-sensitive > > text editors which have capabilities for handling > Lilypond > > source. > > They're sort of "Text Editors with Attitude" (hey, > that > > alliterates too > > :-} ) and the ones that allow compilation and preview > of > > pdf output, > > like Jedit/LilypondTool and Frescobaldi are well on > the way > > to providing > > an IDE (Integrated Development Environment) for > Lilypond. I > > can't think > > of anything really short and snappy so how about: > > /Text Editors with Lilypond Language Support/ or > > /Editors with Lilypond Language Integration/ or > > /Easier Lilypond Editing/. I'd suggest changing the heading "Easier editing environments" at the bottom of "Text input" to "Choosing an editing environment." In the box titled "Where now?", I'd change it to say something like "Read about several of the most popular editing environments to use with Lilypond" with a link to what's currently listed as "Alternate input." Then change the menu option "Alternate input" to "Editors," so that perusing (and hopefully choosing) an appropriate editor becomes an integral part of the introduction. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: lilypond-user Digest, Vol 85, Issue 56
> Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:27:23 + > From: Ian Hulin > Subject: Re: GUI > To: Graham Percival > Cc: Jonathan Wilkes , > lilypond-user@gnu.org > Message-ID: <4b2b914b.7020...@hulin.org.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > Hi Graham, > > On 18/12/09 09:38, Graham Percival wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 09:32:50PM -0800, Jonathan > Wilkes wrote: > >>> If you can suggest an > improvement, especially in the > >>> Introduction pages, please > do. > >> > >> LilyPondTool, Frescobaldi, Emacs and Vim are > listed under > >> "Alternate Input." Since this link is to the > right of "Text > >> Input," the implication is that they are > alternatives to text > >> input, which of course is false: All the > information under the > >> "Text input" link applies to these programs. > > > > Hmm. I'm trying to tie these two together: text > input and > > alternate input are both the same color, and end in > "input". > > > >> Maybe change "Alternate Input" to "Input > software," or "Input > >> programs," or "Progams, At least One of Which You > Will Use to > >> Enter Your Scores if You At All Value Your Time > and Sanity." > > > > I'm willing to change the name, but I'm not convinced > that any of > > thsoe are more attractive than "alternate > input". More to the > > point, the bottom of "text input" tries to direct > people there, > > with the "easier editing environments" stuff. > > > > Hmm, on second thought, what about calling it "Easier > editing"? > > That alliterates, so it gets a 20% bonus to its > attractiveness. :) > > > The current /Alternative Input/ section really lists > language-sensitive > text editors which have capabilities for handling Lilypond > source. > They're sort of "Text Editors with Attitude" (hey, that > alliterates too > :-} ) and the ones that allow compilation and preview of > pdf output, > like Jedit/LilypondTool and Frescobaldi are well on the way > to providing > an IDE (Integrated Development Environment) for Lilypond. I > can't think > of anything really short and snappy so how about: > /Text Editors with Lilypond Language Support/ or > /Editors with Lilypond Language Integration/ or > /Easier Lilypond Editing/. I'd suggest changing the heading "Easier editing environments" at the bottom of "Text input" to "Choosing an editing environment." In the box titled "Where now?", I'd change it to say something like "Read about several of the most popular editing environments to use with Lilypond" with a link to what's currently listed as "Alternate input." Then change the menu option "Alternate input" to "Editors," so that perusing (and hopefully choosing) an appropriate editor becomes an integral part of the introduction text. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: GUI
> Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 23:57:27 + > From: Graham Percival > Subject: Re: GUI > To: Tim McNamara > Cc: lilypond-user > Message-ID: <20091217235727.ga13...@sapphire> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [...] > I invite people -- I've *been* inviting people for months > -- to > look at the new website. If you can suggest an > improvement, > especially in the Introduction pages, please do. I thought you got a good suggestion from Bert earlier in this thread, and you said no to it. LilyPondTool, Frescobaldi, Emacs and Vim are listed under "Alternate Input." Since this link is to the right of "Text Input," the implication is that they are alternatives to text input, which of course is false: All the information under the "Text input" link applies to these programs. Maybe change "Alternate Input" to "Input software," or "Input programs," or "Progams, At least One of Which You Will Use to Enter Your Scores if You At All Value Your Time and Sanity." (Maybe shorten that last one to "Programs..." and then it could expand to the full phrase when you mouse over it.) -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re:Quit [now definitely O/T]
> >
> > Things like "ritardando" can't be found in the
> notation index and are
> > programmed something like
> >
> > Some performance indications,
> e.g., rallentando or accelerando, are
> > written as text and are
> extended over multiple notes with dotted lines.
> > Such objects, called
> "spanners", may be created from one note to
> > another using the following
> syntax:
> >
> > \override
> TextSpanner #'(bound-details left text) = "rit."
> > b1\startTextSpan
> > e,\stopTextSpan
>
> Yes, so we should add "ritardando" to the index. A
> patch is within the
> ability of any LilyPond user, and would be speedily
> applied.
>
> The code to establish a ritardando could be easily written,
> and may (or may
> not) be done as part of the forthcoming GLISS (Grand
> LilyPond Input Syntax
> Stabilization) project. There's currently some
> disagreement about whether
> it would be good to define
>
> spannerText =
> #(define-music-function (parser location span-text)
> (string?)
> #{
> \override TextSpanner #'(bound-details
> left text) = #$span-text
> #")
>
> which would allow above example to be coded much more
> easily in the input
> file
>
> \spannerText "rit."
> b1\startTextSpan
> e,\stopTextSpan
>
> but would hide the underlying LilyPond functionality (the
> \override) and
> make users less likely to learn how to do overrides that
> they may need to do
> for their own challenging music.
>
> Stay tuned for the GLISS, and get your own opinion in.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl
>
Hello David and Carl,
I was really excited to read David's suggestion for \startTextSpan
taking an argument. For me, it makes much more sense and flows better
when entering notes to write:
b1\startTextSpan "accel."
c,\stopTextSpan "a tempo"
than the syntax Carl has used above. I cannot imagine any scenario
where this would hinder one's understanding of the \override syntax and
am curious what the reasoning is behind this assumption.
To me, this syntax looks a lot like:
b1^"so easy to learn, retain, type..."
c,_"...and teach!"
Just my two cents. I'm not a programmer but would be happy to test the
heck out of this functionality if you know how to implement it, David.
Well, I'm also happy to test Carl's syntax too if that's the way
most people prefer it; it's still way better than having to "override"
the text spanner to enter text (which is still not as bad as having to
draw your own splayed stem when you click the splayed stem button in
Finale!).
As for the original topic, I definitely felt a similar amount of
frustration when initially learning lilypond. But the recent
improvements in the documentation kept me on track. I'll contribute
some revisions/errata when I finish up my second time through the
docs.
Thanks,
Jonathan
-Jonathan
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Re: do you care about bug reports?
--- On Tue, 10/27/09, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
> From: Kieren MacMillan
> Subject: Re: do you care about bug reports?
> To: "Jonathan Wilkes"
> Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Date: Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 7:16 PM
> Hi Jonathan,
>
> > Here's a bug I submitted about a
> month ago. I don't currently
> > see it in the bug tracker.
> > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2009-09/msg00088.html
>
> I'm not sure this should be considered a "bug": scanning
> through my library, it appears that scaling (and *not*
> vertical stretching, as you desire) is the
> standard/traditional practice, e.g., the attached PNG
> ("Jupiter" from Holst's "The Planets"):
Hi Kieren,
Thanks for the scan. If you look closely, however, you'll see that
it is stretched vertically-- not in a literal, Finale-like way, but in an
elegant way that keeps the middle of each brace about the same width
(about 3 pixels across) in your PNG. Additionally, the thick part of the
curve in the larger brace is less wide to help match the weight of the
smaller brace.
I submitted another example to try to show this more clearly. The
reference is a Debussy score (1st prelude of the 2nd book). I guess
"stretched vertically" is a bit vague; I guess what I'm seeing is that
as braces get larger, they are less thick than a perfectly scaled
version of the smaller brace.
Does that make sense?
-Jonathan
>
>
>
> That being said, it might be a nice feature [request] that
> there be a switch to choose one or the other method, with
> scaling [current] being the default.
>
> Cheers,
> Kieren.
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Re:do you care about bug reports?
Hello, Here's a bug I submitted about a month ago. I don't currently see it in the bug tracker. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2009-09/msg00088.html I think the example is pretty straightforward. Btw, is there anything analogous to "washing dishes to pay for your meal" around here? I don't currently have the money to pay someone to fix the brace problem (nor am I a programmer), but if there's some kind of tedious Lilypond work I can do for someone to offset the workload and free them up to look at more complex issues like this one, I'd be interested in helping out. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lilypond and Wordpress
> Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 11:39:52 -0400 > From: Laura Conrad > Subject: Re: Lilypond and Wordpress > To: Jonathan Wilkes > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Message-ID: <87skd69nav@laymusic.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > >>>>> "Jonathan" == Jonathan Wilkes > writes: > > Jonathan> Does anyone > have some experience using > Jonathan> lilypond-book together with > wordpress? I'd like to make > Jonathan> a blog entry in html, then run > lilypond-book on it and > Jonathan> upload it to the webserver as a > blog entry. But I'm > Jonathan> having to change all the image > links to fit the > Jonathan> wordpress directory > structure. > > Why is that? My wordpress blog has lots of links to images > outside of > the wordpress directory structure. I guess what I was thinking was the following: 1. Make a blog entry all in one go in html. 2. Run lilypond-book on it. 3. Upload the folder with the images and ly files in it to the webserver. 4. Copy and paste my html into a new blog entry in wordpress. 5. Done. The problem I'm having is that when I run lilypond-book, it makes a relative link for images, and it seems like on the web server I need to give a full url for images; currently I can't get them to display with the relative links. > I haven't been doing a lot of it, and when I do it's > generally to > things I've already published outside of the wordpress > blog. But > getting the lilypond into a .png isn't a problem. I > have a tool I > wrote to put an image into the wordpress media library, so > I just say > "addmedia.py " and it tells me the link to > use to reference > it. > > I also do all my blog writing in html (using emacs psgml > mode), and > use the "raw html" plugin to have wordpress render them. > > I posted addmedia.py to my blog at > <http://serpentpublications.org/laymusic/?p=1353>. Thanks Laura, I'll check this out. -Jonathan > > > -- > Laura (mailto:lcon...@laymusic.org) > (617) 661-8097 233 Broadway, Cambridge, > MA 02139 > http://www.laymusic.org/ http://www.serpentpublications.org > > The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. > But the > opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound > truth. > > Niels Bohr > > > > > > -- > > ___ > lilypond-user mailing list > lilypond-user@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user > > > End of lilypond-user Digest, Vol 83, Issue 83 > * > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Lilypond and Wordpress
Hello, Does anyone have some experience using lilypond-book together with wordpress? I'd like to make a blog entry in html, then run lilypond-book on it and upload it to the webserver as a blog entry. But I'm having to change all the image links to fit the wordpress directory structure. Does anyone have some tips on the best way to do blog entries with lilypond snippets? I've looked at the scorerender plugin but it looks like you have to run lilypond on the server which is a little over my head at this point. Thanks, Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Feature Request: Store Measure Numbers in Annotation
Hello, I made a feature request on the Lilypondtool page to be able to jump to any measure in the pdf viewer, and the creator of the software mentioned that this is really a feature request for Lilypond, so I'm posting his response here. Here is Mr. Fodor's response to my request: "If LilyPond stored the measure numbers in the annotation it would be possible, but not otherwise. So it's a feature request for LilyPond. (I think that would be easy to implement in LilyPond.) Actually LilyPond could generate a lot of other information in a separate file, because when rendering a grob, it has access to the Music element that renders the grob." I guess this relates also to another feature request I mentioned- I think it would be really useful to know the list of possible slur 'positions Lilypond chooses from when it compiles a score. Basically, I'd like to compile a score, and if I need to tweak a slur, choose from a list of possible 'positions, rather than entering values and compiling until Lilypond "jumps" to what it thinks is the next satisfactory slur shape. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: [Issue?] hiding Accidental(s) on tied note(s) after a line break
--- On Thu, 10/8/09, David Nalesnik wrote: > From: David Nalesnik > Subject: Re: [Issue?] hiding Accidental(s) on tied note(s) after a line break > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" > Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 2:55 AM > Hi Jonathan, > I like this revision of the NR. I have always > opted to put these accidentals in, but I can certainly see > why someone would want to suppress them (read: > awkward-looking ties!) Also, > looking through scores lately with a new eye has shown me > that actual practice is not all that consistent, as you say. > Even in scores that generally repeat accidentals at the > start of the line, there are occasional inconsistencies. > And I have a Henle edition of Chopin mazurkas which > suppresses them, in contrast to other Henle scores (relative > simplicity of the music?). Another Henle edition of Brahms > piano pieces repeats the accidentals fairly consistently, > but not when the affected notes are used immediately after > the tied note (avoiding an awkward-looking repetition, I > suppose.) > > The Chopin edition dates to well before Henle > switched to Finale, but I suspect that some of these omitted > accidentals are due to notation software. Then again, I > have a Boosey&Hawkes collection of new piano music, > which suppresses them everywhere...except in pieces by > Wolfgang Rihm. > > I wrote earlier because I had a moment of terror > thinking that a neat feature of LilyPond would be gone > forever. I realize now that, whichever way the defaults > go, an easy override will be in sight! > > --David I think some of my initial inclinations about notational conventions come from having done things the wrong way 100 times and gotten used to it. As long as the options are clear from the NR, I think Lilypond's default behavior on this issue is probably the correct one. -Jonathan > > On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 12:21 AM, > Jonathan Wilkes > wrote: > > --- On Sat, 10/3/09, David Nalesnik > wrote: > > > > > From: David Nalesnik > > > Subject: Re: [Issue?] hiding Accidental(s) on tied > note(s) after a line break > > > To: "Joe Neeman" > > > Cc: "Jonathan Wilkes" , > "lilypond-user" > > > Date: Saturday, October 3, 2009, 5:46 AM > > > Hi, > > > According to Gardner Read: "It is not > > > necessary to repeat the accidental before a tied note > . . . > > > The one exception to this general rule occurs when the > note > > > or notes affected by the accidental and tied over the > > > barline come at the end of a system or at the bottom > of the > > > page. It is helpful to the performer if the > accidental is > > > repeated . . . " (Music Notation, p.131) > > > > > > I know I have spent a lot of time adding these > > > accidentals in Finale (and redoing them whenever the > layout > > > changed), and I very much appreciate that 2.12.2 takes > care > > > of them automatically! > > > > Hi David, > > > > Thanks for that quote; I don't currently have access to > Read's manual. > > > > Well, I still have my Beethoven sonatas out from my last > posting on here, > > and those tied accidentals after line breaks are a lot more > common than > > I thought. In the Schenker edition, they're > inconsistent: sometimes an > > accidental is parenthesized, sometimes its suppressed, but > more often > > than not they're there. In Henle they seem to always > be printed (and > > beautiful). > > > > However, I've got a Peters edition score where > they're always suppressed (it's also a modern score, > and I wonder if that's where the difference > > stems from). > > > > Here's an idea: how about just showing the behavior of > > 'hide-tied-accidental-after-break in NR 1.1.1, under > the heading > > "Accidentals", in the example that follows this > sentence: > > "Accidentals on tied notes are only printed at the > beginning of a new system. [add this] These accidentals > may also be suppressed." > > > > [see attached] > > > > Currently, 'hide-tied-accidental-after-break is only > listed in NR A.14. In > > fact, I remember seeing it there when I was entering a > score, and > > spending 10 very confused minutes trying to figure out why > the heck > > \override Tie #'hide-tied-accidental-after-break = > ##t wouldn't work! > > (Yes, I know it's a property of Accidental now). > > > > -Jonathan > > > > > > > > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Ties and Ledger Lines
Hi,
In the following snippet, the only ties that look nice are the ones
that happen immediately before and after the line break. The other ties touch
the ledger lines.
The tie/ledger line collision doesn't happen in 4/4.
How can I get the other ties to look like the ones surrounding the line
break?
-Jonathan
\version "2.13.3"
\relative c'' {
\time 3/4
2.~
~
\break
~
~
}
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Re: [Issue?] hiding Accidental(s) on tied note(s) after a line break
--- On Sat, 10/3/09, David Nalesnik wrote:
> From: David Nalesnik
> Subject: Re: [Issue?] hiding Accidental(s) on tied note(s) after a line break
> To: "Joe Neeman"
> Cc: "Jonathan Wilkes" , "lilypond-user"
>
> Date: Saturday, October 3, 2009, 5:46 AM
> Hi,
> According to Gardner Read: "It is not
> necessary to repeat the accidental before a tied note . . .
> The one exception to this general rule occurs when the note
> or notes affected by the accidental and tied over the
> barline come at the end of a system or at the bottom of the
> page. It is helpful to the performer if the accidental is
> repeated . . . " (Music Notation, p.131)
>
> I know I have spent a lot of time adding these
> accidentals in Finale (and redoing them whenever the layout
> changed), and I very much appreciate that 2.12.2 takes care
> of them automatically!
Hi David,
Thanks for that quote; I don't currently have access to Read's manual.
Well, I still have my Beethoven sonatas out from my last posting on here,
and those tied accidentals after line breaks are a lot more common than
I thought. In the Schenker edition, they're inconsistent: sometimes an
accidental is parenthesized, sometimes its suppressed, but more often
than not they're there. In Henle they seem to always be printed (and
beautiful).
However, I've got a Peters edition score where they're always suppressed (it's
also a modern score, and I wonder if that's where the difference
stems from).
Here's an idea: how about just showing the behavior of
'hide-tied-accidental-after-break in NR 1.1.1, under the heading
"Accidentals", in the example that follows this sentence:
"Accidentals on tied notes are only printed at the beginning of a new system.
[add this] These accidentals may also be suppressed."
[see attached]
Currently, 'hide-tied-accidental-after-break is only listed in NR A.14. In
fact, I remember seeing it there when I was entering a score, and
spending 10 very confused minutes trying to figure out why the heck
\override Tie #'hide-tied-accidental-after-break = ##t wouldn't work!
(Yes, I know it's a property of Accidental now).
-Jonathan
%
% Start cut-&-pastable-section
%
\paper {
indent = 0\mm
line-width = 160\mm - 2.0 * 0.4\in
ragged-right = ##t
force-assignment = #""
line-width = #(- line-width (* mm 3.00))
}
\layout {
}
\relative c''
{
%
% ly snippet contents follows:
%
\sourcefileline 379
cis1 ~ cis ~
\break
cis
\override Accidental #'hide-tied-accidental-after-break = ##t
cis ~
\break
cis
%
% end ly snippet
%
}
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Default Tie positions too close
Hello,
For some large chords, the tie positions end up nearly on
top of one another. The commented-out override in the snippet below helps
somewhat, but it would be nice if these could be handled more elegantly
by default.
-Jonathan
Snippet:
\version "2.13.3"
\relative c' {
\clef bass
\time 3/4
c c c \break |
<< \new Voice { \voiceOne b2.~ b~ b }
\new Voice {
\voiceTwo 2. }
>>
}
\layout {
\context { \Score
% \override Tie #'details #'intra-space-threshold = #100
}
}
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Re: [Issue?] hiding Accidental(s) on tied note(s) after a line break
On Saturday 30 May 2009 10:23:31 pm Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> > shortest note playing here.")
> > (shortest-starter-duration ,ly:moment? "The duration of the
> > shortest note that starts here.")
> > + (hide-tied-accidental-after-break ,boolean? "If set, an accidental
> > +that appears on a tied note after a line break will not be displayed")
> > (side-axis ,number? "If the value is @code{#X} (or
> > addr...@hidden@code{0}), the object is placed horizontally next to
> > the other object. If the value is @code{#Y} addr...@hidden@code{1}, it is
>
> Joe, items in define-grob-properties.scm are sorted alphabetically.
> Please move it to the right location.
Oops, I had originally named it show-tied-accidental-after-break.
Thanks,
Joe
Hi Joe,
I have a quick question about this property you've added (which is
wonderful, btw):
1) Should tied accidentals after line breaks be suppressed by default?
I've looked through some scores, and even thought there's more examples
than I thought there would be that show tied accidentals after breaks
(mainly orchestral scores, and mainly 20th century pieces from the 70s)
it seems in the vast majority of cases they aren't shown.
On a related note, I like your original property name above, but I guess it
would cause problems to change it now.
-Jonathan
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Re: Slur through a rest
--- On Tue, 9/29/09, Neil Thornock wrote: > From: Neil Thornock > Subject: Re: Slur through a rest > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 1:43 PM > Well I haven't tested this, but I > generally have troubles with slurs > that cross staves, such as you have here. What you > want to use are > the control-points and probably some type of offset. > A good > implementation of cross-staff slurs someday will be > wonderful. Hi Neil, Thanks, I haven't tried an offset yet. Quick question: is it possible to set separate control points both for the slur and its continuation after a line break? I think what frustrates me about this is that I can't use the 'positions property in the same way I do for beams. It's like Lilypond is hiding several options for slur positions, and is making me guess the magic number to trigger the right one. Even for less problematic slurs, sometimes I just want to move the 'positions by a small, discrete amount without resorting to 'control-points. > > > It obviously has to do with grace notes, and I saw a > relevant email here: > > > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2005-10/msg00040.html > > > > but what does it mean to "sync" grace notes across > staves? > > I think he means that you need spacer grace notes in every > staff at > the same location as the actual grace notes. You > should see the break > problem go away if you do. Ah, ok, I was putting them just in both voices of one staff. > > Hang in there -- I used Finally for 13 years but will never > go back > now that I've gotten Lilypond under my belt. The > output is simply too > beautiful. I agree. Also, now that I've looked back at Stone's rules for cross- staff beams, I'm amazed how Lilypond gets these right most of the time. I'll definitely continue to use and learn Lilypond; and when it gets to a point where slurs, line-broken spanners, braces, margins, and note positions can be more flexibly manipulated, I'm sure I can convince a lot of others to jump in as well. From what I've seen of its development, seems like it's definitely on its way. Thanks, Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Slur through a rest
Hello,
Below is an example of a slur that's stumping me. Could anyone
suggest a way of avoiding the rest that doesn't mess up the continuation
after the line break? I've tried adjusting 'positions but it doesn't
produce an effect.
Also, I noticed that when I use the \break that is commented out instead of the
other one, I get the following error and no line break:
warning: forced break was overridden by some other event, should you be using
bar checks?
It obviously has to do with grace notes, and I saw a relevant email here:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2005-10/msg00040.html
but what does it mean to "sync" grace notes across staves?
Thanks,
Jonathan
snippet:
\version "2.13.3"
staffPiano = \new PianoStaff {
\set PianoStaff.midiInstrument = #"acoustic grand"
\set PianoStaff.instrumentName = #"Piano "
\time 3/4
<<
\context Staff = "RH" { % Right hand
\clef treble
\key c \major
\relative c' {
\new TimeSig
R2. | R2. | r4 r s4 | s2. %\break
|
s2. | R2. | R2. |
}
}
\context Staff = "LH" { % Left hand
\clef bass
\key c \major
\relative c {
<<
{ s2. |
s2. |
aes8^\p\( bes \times 2/3 { f' g d' } \change
Staff = "RH" fis b |
e bes' \times 2/3 { c g d } \times 2/3 {
fis'4-- e,8 } \break
|
\grace { aes16[ bes] } g'4~--
\times 2/3 { g8 e \acciaccatura a, }
32 c'8\) r16. | \change Staff = "LH"
s2. | s2. |
}
\new Voice { R2. | R2. | s2. | R2. | R2. |
R2.*2 }
>>
}
}
>>
}
\score {
<<
\staffPiano
>>
}
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Re: No fiddling claim
> Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:47:44 +0200 > From: Jan Nieuwenhuizen > Subject: Re: No fiddling claim > To: Jonathan Wilkes > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Message-ID: <1254160064.1689.5885.ca...@heerbeest> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Op maandag 28-09-2009 om 10:33 uur [tijdzone -0700], > schreef Jonathan > Wilkes: > > > I don't understand the meaning of > the statement "More often than not > > it isn't." > > What I meant to say is that certain tweaks are > fundamentally > not automatable. However, in many cases we > should expect > lilypond to do the right thing and if she doesn't, strive > to make it so. That sounds good to me. > > > For example, in Op. 53 in NR 1.1: > > Link please? > > I do not see anything you mention here > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/notation/Pitches#Pitches Yep, that's it. Right underneath The heading "1.1 Pitches", there's a dotted line, then two systems from a Beethoven Sonata with a green border around it. -Jonathan > > > Jan. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: No fiddling claim
--- On Mon, 9/28/09, Reinhold Kainhofer wrote: > From: Reinhold Kainhofer > Subject: Re: No fiddling claim > To: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Cc: "Jonathan Wilkes" > Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 8:20 PM > Am Montag, 28. September 2009 > 19:33:09 schrieb Jonathan Wilkes: > > Hi Jan, > > I don't understand the meaning of > the statement "More often than not > > it isn't." There are tweaks in all of the examples > from the canon that > > begin the sections in NR, plus there are plenty of > engraving mistakes in > > those examples as well that would require more > tweaks (i.e., fiddling) to > > fix. For example, in Op. 53 in NR 1.1: > > Please compare with several printed versions of this > piece: > http://imslp.org/wiki/Piano_Sonata_No.21,_Op.53_(Beethoven,_Ludwig_van) > > > * "cresc." should be centered > > Some editions center it, some right-align it, some > left-align it like > lilypond... > > > * the end points of the slur in m. 36 should start > about a half-space > > higher (or possibly at the top of the stem on the left > end point) > > Granted. > > > * sf and hairpin should be higher > > Why should it be higher rather than vertically centered? If it were higher it would be centered. In that image I count about 11 pixels from the bottom of the rh staff to the top of the f, and 5 pixels from the bottom of the f to the lh staff. > > Also please note that piano centered dynamics is not a > supported feature. In > particular, see section 2.2.1: > "Dynamics are not automatically centered, but workarounds > do exist. One option > is the ‘piano centered dynamics’ template under > Piano templates; another > option is to increase the staff-padding of dynamics as > discussed in objects > Moving objects." > > Yes, that's a real drawback, but unless someone steps up to > improve piano- > centered dynamics, things will not improve This is why I think "no fiddling" is a philosophy rather than an answer to "why use lilypond?" Actually, I think I would be less critical of this claim if it were specific: "No note-spacing headaches" is something I would agree with. > > > > BTW, which version are we talking about? 2.12 or 2.13 docs? > The 2.12 dynamics > look perfectly centered. In 2.13 they are not, because that > snippet uses one > of the mentioned workarounds, which apparently no longer > works... Oh, sorry, I'm looking at the 2.13 docs. > > > * hairpin shouldn't touch the right barline > > Granted, there should be a little space. > > > * l.h. slurs in m. 34 and 36 should have more arc to > be further from the > > sharp sign > > In almost all of the scores the slur and the accidental > touch. I'm looking at the dover edition edited by Schenker, and the von Bulow edition on the IMSLP (I can't find the second volume my Henle edition). In neither does the accidental actually touch the slur. Furthermore, in both editions the slurs "match," von Bulow's has big broad slurs, and Schenker's are less exagerrated. In the lilypond example, there is a mixture of curvy slurs and straight ones which is visually distracting (i.e., Lilypond doesn't seem to have a "house style" to its default slurs). > > > * p in m. 38 should be centered > > Isn't it? No, it's basically in the same position as the sf of the previous system. (see above) > > > and whole-note, respectively > > What should be different with the whole-note? Well, I thought the slur got to close, but now I think the problem is the difference between the arc of that slur and the one above it. I'll go ahead and list the other problems I saw in the NR examples. 1.2 Rhythms In the two scores I've looked at (referenced above), the lh notes are beamed in groups every eighth note- not every quarter. Grace notes don't affect the spacing in the left hand (they are just fitted into the space between the eighth and the following sixteenth note. In the second measure of the rh, beat 2, the sixteenths are beamed separately from the 32nds (same thing in m. 4). \p\> is not centered in the 3rd measure, the 128th-note beam seems to be shifted too far down (I'm not sure what the rule is for the positions of such small durations, however in the Schenker score the bottom of the beam stays within a half- space of the bottom line of the staff). 1.5 Simultaneous Notes The hairpin in the top system collides with the slur. The trill symbols in the second system touch each other. The trill flat looks a little too small. The dynamics in the system aren't
Re: No fiddling claim
> > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:21:01 +0200 > From: Jan Nieuwenhuizen > Subject: Re: No fiddling claim > To: Jonathan Wilkes > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Message-ID: <1254126061.1689.5876.ca...@heerbeest> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Op zondag 27-09-2009 om 14:22 uur [tijdzone -0700], schreef > Jonathan > Wilkes: > > Hi Jonathan, > > > Not too long ago, I gave my > opinion that "No fiddling" should be > > changed to "less fiddling" for the new website. > > After trying to do a quick > exercise with a Schumann score, which I > > posted here concerning a slur tweak after a line > break, I don't think the > > "less fiddling" claim is valid, either. > > You seem to miss the point of the "no fiddling" > remark. > > As an aside: this is exactly why I do not like the newly > fumbled > "less fiddling", it turns people's heads into the direction > of > fiddling. People have come to think fiddling is > normal and required. > More often than not it isn't. We do not want less > fiddling, we want > bug reports and no fiddling. Okay... Hi Jan, I don't understand the meaning of the statement "More often than not it isn't." There are tweaks in all of the examples from the canon that begin the sections in NR, plus there are plenty of engraving mistakes in those examples as well that would require more tweaks (i.e., fiddling) to fix. For example, in Op. 53 in NR 1.1: * "cresc." should be centered * the end points of the slur in m. 36 should start about a half-space higher (or possibly at the top of the stem on the left end point) * sf and hairpin should be higher * hairpin shouldn't touch the right barline * l.h. slurs in m. 34 and 36 should have more arc to be further from the sharp sign * p in m. 38 should be centered and whole-note, respectively If the "no fiddling" thing is supposed to be the underlining philosophy of Lilypond, I definitely understand what you say. If it's supposed to draw current users of GUI programs to Lilypond with the idea that, more often than not, fiddling is not required, I don't think that's true except for the most rudimentary examples. > > The idea of LilyPond is that the output should be beautiful > without > fiddling. While this may not have been achieved yet > for some pieces of > music, it may be true next year. > We found that if you > wanted > beautifully engraved music, you would need to move almost > every freaking > note, beam, barline, slur, accidental and lyric when using > an expensive, > popular GUI program. Actually, that's why I'd like to see how the process works for a Finale guru vs. Lilypond guru: not as a contest to see who "wins", but as a way to get a sense of how each copyist/engraver spends most of their time. For example, I'm pretty sure the Finale user wouldn't need to move every beam manually (though I'm not sure about note positions in the newer versions). > > It may be that some tweaks, esp. where you need visible > feedback > take more time to do in LilyPond than they do in a GUI > program. > I don't think we particularly care about this. The > upside here > is that any tweaks you do need, can be quite easily > improved > incrementally, saved for a next time, discussed on a > mailing > list -- while mouse movements cannot. > > If you want to help, please post a minimal snippet with the > slur > or grace note that you do not like to the bug-lilypond > list. I'm happy to help and post some examples of the behavior I want to tweak. The main tweak headache I'm having concerns cross staff beams, and slurs broken over barlines (esp. long ones). Thanks a lot for the response. -Jonathan > > Jan. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: No fiddling claim
--- On Mon, 9/28/09, Kieren MacMillan wrote: > From: Kieren MacMillan > Subject: Re: No fiddling claim > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:20 AM > HI Jonathan, > > > what do the experienced users think about what I've > said here? > > If there's anyone out there who has used other > notational > > software and thinks the "less fiddling" claim is > true? > > I used Finale from 1991-2003, eventually becoming *quite* > proficient. > Then I switched to Lilypond (around v1.8), and now consider > myself at least as proficient [relatively speaking] as I was > with Finale. > [I used Igor Engraver (v1.5) for a year or so in the > interim, but that product died, which is why I ended up > looking elsewhere and finding Lilypond...] > > I definitely feel the "less fiddling" claim is true... for > me, for the type of music I engrave, and for the particular > quality of output I desire/demand. > > That being said, if you don't particularly care about > Finale's *horrible* [default] note-spacing, lyric placement, > etc., then there would almost certainly be less fiddling > time required with Finale — I just find that with > Lilypond, I do almost no note or lyric adjustment, measure > width/spacing adjustment, and so on, which are the > activities that took up the bulk of my "tweaking" time with > Finale. [Disclaimer, the last version I used was 2003, so > things might be much better now.] Hmm., I don't have much experience with lyric placement (I only have one piece I've written with text), but yes, the note-spacing tweaks for an entire piece can take a lot of time, depending on the complexity of the rhythms. > > Right now, I estimate the following for my engraving work > using Lilypond: > 1. Basic note entry (including *all* items, e.g., > slurs, articulations, fingering, etc.) requires 20%-50% as > long as I used to spend with Finale. > 2. Spacing tweaks (notes, lyrics, vertical spacing, > etc.) requires less than 5% of the time I used to spend with > Finale. > 3. Specific tweaks (like the ones you mention) take > 2-5 times [!!] as long as I used to spend with Finale. > > I roughly estimate that #1 represents 50% of my total > engraving time, #2 is about 40%, and #3 is the final 10%. So > taking the *worst case* scenario [for Lilypond], a > hypothetical piece that would take 100 min to engrave in > Finale means: > (50 min @ 50% time) + (40 min @ 5% time) > + (10 min at 500% time) = 25 min + 2 min + 50 min = 77 min = > 77% of the time I used to spend doing the same work in > Finale. > > This is obviously non-scientific and anecdotal to the > extreme... but the final result (i.e., that I *never* spend > more than about 3/4 of the time I used to working in Finale) > seems about right. I tend to feel like I currently get > things done in 1/2 the time, on average. > > Of course, YMMV — in particular, if the spacing > atrocities in Finale aren't where you spend your time, you > will not see nearly as much benefit from using Lilypond, and > in fact it may overall require more time. It sounds like your experience is indeed different than what mine has been so far. I would be really interested to see one of the Lilypond gurus go up against a Finale guru to notate a piece of music from the canon, and keep track of the total amount of time like you've done above. I know a finale guru who might be interested in this. For me, it would be really helpful to see the code on the Lilypond side. > > Hope this helps! Definitely. Good to know that there's the possibility of working faster as I learn the ins and outs. Thanks for your detailed response to my question. -Jonathan > Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
No fiddling claim
Hello, Not too long ago, I gave my opinion that "No fiddling" should be changed to "less fiddling" for the new website. After trying to do a quick exercise with a Schumann score, which I posted here concerning a slur tweak after a line break, I don't think the "less fiddling" claim is valid, either. I've only used Finale before, so I'll compare to that, assuming the knowledge one would have after reading the relevant tutorials and manuals for both pieces of software: * slur tweak after line break: finale: find the smart shape tool, click the slur button, click the line-broken slur, and adjust as needed OR press to get the global select tool, double click the slur, and adjust. Time: about 5-10 seconds. lilypond: see the section on difficult tweaks in the NR, copy and paste the scheme code, spend anywhere from 1 minute to 1 hour realizing that that this scheme code isn't giving the desired output, write to the mailing list, get an excellent response that has the correct scheme code for changing the slur, then spend about 1 minute setting control-points. (OR spend a few days/weeks/months learning scheme.) Time: however long it takes to get expert support, or to learn scheme-- both take longer than 10 seconds. * move grace-notes slightly to the left to improve spacing: finale: select "special tools", click the handle for each grace-note (or select them all at once) and move to the left. Time: 20 seconds (possibly a minute or two if one doesn't right away where to find the "special tools" menu. lilypond: I believe there's a warning about not being able to decrease spacing in the NR 4.5.1, but I tried nonetheless and after about 10 minutes figured out that \once \override NoteColumn #'X-offset got the job done (although it only had an effect with values smaller than -1 for the grace-note a in m. 6). Time: I suppose if I had a better handle on the spacing objects in Lilypond, I could *write* the overrides in about 20 seconds, but then I have to take at least another 6 seconds to get visual feedback on the values I've used, and if they're not quite right, I have to type new values and compile the score again. * adjust thickness of piano braces: finale: I'd never done this before, and after looking in the wrong place I saw an entry under "document options" for "Piano Braces and Brackets" which has a stretchable graphic brace with handles to change the size, thickness, and curve of the brace. Time: about 30 seconds total. lilypond: I spent about an hour going through every possible property for SystemStartBrace, and it was only after getting a response from the mailinglist that I learned this cannot be adjusted in Lilypond. Time: a few hours, plus no suitable overrides. * minor vertical spacing tweak between systems: finale: choose "page layout", drag system with mouse. Time: about 4 seconds. lilypond: add some object to the relevant staff, use a Y-offset, Y-extent, or staff-padding property to nudge this away from the other system. OR change the 'Y-extent on an existing object (like a pedal mark) to get the extra space. Time: took me about 5 minutes. * slur tweaks finale: press , double click the slur, drag handles and go to town. Slurs are connected to horizontal note positions, so when the spacing changes, so do the length of slurs. lilypond: use the alist properties, 'positions, or 'control-points. 'positions are problematic because you're never guaranteed to get the positions that you specify (as far as I can tell), and control-points destroy the connection between the slur and the horizontal note positions. Actually for long slurs, I haven't found a solution that a) makes a beautiful slur and b) is flexible enough so that if I add a break or put another measure in that system, the slur still looks good. If there are faster ways of tweaking for the examples above, I'd love to hear them. And of course there are many things Lilypond does better than Finale (independent time signatures, for one), but I only mention the above tweaks because I think they're examples of common, reasonable tweaks to make in a piece of music, and they certainly take longer in Lilypond than at least one other piece of music software. Even if there are less overall tweaks in Lilypond (which I think is questionable), those tweaks take a substantial amount of time to get right. So I'm curious: what do the experienced users think about what I've said here? If there's anyone out there who has used other notational software and thinks the "less fiddling" claim is true? -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Relative thickness of PianoStaff Braces
--- On Sat, 9/26/09, Mats Bengtsson wrote:
> From: Mats Bengtsson
> Subject: Re: Relative thickness of PianoStaff Braces
> To: "Jonathan Wilkes"
> Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 9:47 PM
> The braces are typeset using symbols
> from a special font, so you cannot adjust the width and
> height separately. As far as I can see from the Metafont
> code generating these font symbols, the relationship between
> width and height is fixed, which may not be the best choice
> as you have pointed out.
Oh, I see. Since I couldn't find a glyph for the brace in the NR, I just
assumed it was some kind of "vertical spanner."
Thanks for the response.
-Jonathan
>
> /Mats
>
> Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
> > Hello again,
> > I've tried fooling around with the
> various properties of SystemStartBrace, and I can't seem to
> find a way to make all braces the same width, regardless of
> the height of the brace. (The problem is really
> exaggerated when there are three staves in a PianoStaff--
> the brace looks comically huge.)
> >
> > Do there happen to be any scheme wizards who can
> suggest a possible workaround? And if a workaround is
> not possible, should I add this to the bug tracker? (Unless
> it's already listed and I missed it.)
> >
> > -Jonathan
> >
> > --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Jonathan Wilkes
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> From: Jonathan Wilkes
> >> Subject: Relative thickness of PianoStaff Braces
> >> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> >> Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 11:15 PM
> >> Hello,
> >> I'm having trouble tweaking
> the
> >> Brace at the beginning of a system. My test code
> is below; basically, I'd like to make the
> >> brace oonnecting three staves less thick.
> >>
> >> That brings me to my second question. I've
> attached
> >> two pngs, one of Lilypond braces and the other
> from a Durand score of
> >> Debussy's 1st Prelude, Bk. II, available here:
> >>
> >> http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/d/dd/IMSLP00510-Debussy_-_Preludes__Book_2.pdf
> >>
> >> Both Durand braces are of course much thicker, but
> the
> >> point is that they have comparable weights (not
> sure what to call it).
> >>
> >> Lilypond's large brace basically looks like the
> smaller
> >> brace has been enlarged by about 170%, which looks
> a lot less
> >> elegant. Shouldn't the brace be stretched
> vertically without changing the
> >> thickness?
> >>
> >> -Jonathan
> >>
> >> example code:
> >>
> >> \version "2.12.2"
> >>
> >> \score {
> >> \new PianoStaff %
> \override
> >> PianoStaff.SystemStartBrace #'thickness = #0.2
> >> <<
> >> \new Staff = "rh"
> {
> >> << { c'
> d' e' f' }
> >> \new Staff
> \with {
> >> alignAboveContext = "rh" } { c' d' e' f' }
> >> >>
> >> \break
> >> c' d' e' f'
> >> }
> >> \new Staff {
> >> c' d' e' f'
> >> c' d' e' f'
> >> }
> >> >>
> >> }
> >>
> >> \paper {
> >> indent = 0
> >> }
> >>
> >> %\layout {
> >> % \context { \PianoStaff
> >> % \override
> >> SystemStartBrace #'thickness = #0.2
> >> % }
> >> %}
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > lilypond-user mailing list
> > lilypond-user@gnu.org
> > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
> >
>
>
> -- =
> Mats Bengtsson
> Signal Processing
> School of Electrical Engineering
> Royal Institute of Technology (KTH)
> SE-100 44 STOCKHOLM
> Sweden
> Phone: (+46) 8 790
> 8463
>
> Fax: (+46)
> 8 790 7260
> Email: mats.bengts...@ee.kth.se
> WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe
> =
>
>
___
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Re: Relative thickness of PianoStaff Braces
Hello again,
I've tried fooling around with the various properties of
SystemStartBrace, and I can't seem to find a way to make all braces the same
width, regardless of the height of the brace. (The problem is really
exaggerated when there are three staves in a PianoStaff-- the brace looks
comically huge.)
Do there happen to be any scheme wizards who can suggest a possible workaround?
And if a workaround is not possible, should I add this to the bug tracker?
(Unless it's already listed and I missed it.)
-Jonathan
--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
> From: Jonathan Wilkes
> Subject: Relative thickness of PianoStaff Braces
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 11:15 PM
> Hello,
> I'm having trouble tweaking the
> Brace at the beginning of a system.
> My test code is below; basically, I'd like to make the
> brace oonnecting
> three staves less thick.
>
> That brings me to my second question. I've attached
> two pngs, one of
> Lilypond braces and the other from a Durand score of
> Debussy's 1st
> Prelude, Bk. II, available here:
>
> http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/d/dd/IMSLP00510-Debussy_-_Preludes__Book_2.pdf
>
> Both Durand braces are of course much thicker, but the
> point is that they
> have comparable weights (not sure what to call it).
>
> Lilypond's large brace basically looks like the smaller
> brace has been
> enlarged by about 170%, which looks a lot less
> elegant. Shouldn't the
> brace be stretched vertically without changing the
> thickness?
>
> -Jonathan
>
> example code:
>
> \version "2.12.2"
>
> \score {
> \new PianoStaff
> % \override
> PianoStaff.SystemStartBrace #'thickness = #0.2
> <<
> \new Staff = "rh" {
> << { c' d' e' f' }
> \new Staff \with {
> alignAboveContext = "rh" } { c' d' e' f' }
> >>
> \break
> c' d' e' f'
> }
> \new Staff {
> c' d' e' f'
> c' d' e' f'
> }
> >>
> }
>
> \paper {
> indent = 0
> }
>
> %\layout {
> % \context { \PianoStaff
> % \override
> SystemStartBrace #'thickness = #0.2
> % }
> %}
>
>
>
>
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Re: Even and odd page-margins [slightly OT]
Hello, I saw this thread from 2006, and it seems like there was some interest for adding the functionality for setting even and odd page margins. Did this ever get sponsored/implemented? If not, is there still interest in it getting sponsored/implemented? Thanks, Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Vertical Spacing
Hello,
How do I say: "Hey Lilypond, use
the following 'minimum-Y-extent for whatever system m. 2 ends up in."
I don't see anything in the LM about this, and NR 4.4.1 doesn't make it
clear that the following override only sets the 'minimum-Y-extent at the
beginning of the piece or in a \layout block.
-Jonathan
Snippet:
% Created on Wed Sep 23 22:27:52 EDT 2009
\version "2.13.3"
staffPiano = \new PianoStaff {
\set PianoStaff.midiInstrument = #"acoustic grand"
\set PianoStaff.instrumentName = #"Piano "
\time 4/4
<<
\context Staff = "RH" {
\clef treble
\key c \major
\relative c' {
c d e f
c d e f
c d e f
}
}
\context Staff = "LH" {
\clef bass
\key c \major
\relative c {
c d e f
% \break
\once \override Staff.VerticalAxisGroup
#'minimum-Y-extent = #'(-4 . 10)
c d e f
c d e f
}
}
>>
}
\score {
<<
\staffPiano
>>
}
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\RemoveEmptyStaffContext and cross-staff beams
Hello,
In the following code, the beam goes between the staves when
\RemoveEmptyStaffContext is commented out but goes above the top
staff when it's used.
This means you have to explicitly state all the stem directions to
get the beam to go in the middle of the staves when using
\RemoveEmptyStaffContext.
Is this a bug?
-Jonathan
Snippet below:
\version "2.13.3"
staffPiano = \new PianoStaff {
<<
\new Staff = "rh" { \relative c' {
c8[ c c c \change Staff = "lh" g, g g g]
}
}
\new Staff = "lh" { \relative c {
\clef bass
c1
}
}
>>
}
\score {
\staffPiano
}
\layout {
\context {
\RemoveEmptyStaffContext
}
}
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Re: tweaking grobs after line breaks
--- On Sat, 9/19/09, Neil Puttock wrote: > I assume those control-points in your example are just a > test, since > that's a rather wild slur. :) Ah, wonderful! Yes, those were just test values I found on the list. Decent values are: '((6 . 1) (8 . 2.5) (14 . 2.5) (16 . 1)) Thanks, Jonathan > > Regards, > Neil > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
tweaking grobs after line breaks
Hello,
I'm doing some tweaking of a score I found of Schumann's Traeumerei
on IMSLP. Not the greatest edition to copy from, but it's given me
some experience tweaking in Lilypond.
Now I'm trying to use the "my-callback" tweak shown in the NR, and I
can't get it to change the positions of the first slur in m. 5. I'd like
the starting and ending positions of the slur to be at the same vertical
position, right above the staff.
Also, since it's just one page, I included all the code, because
I'd be curious to hear if anyone has suggestions for input style/format in
my code. I'm starting to build a shorcuts.ly file to avoid typing so
many overrides, but other than that I'd appreciate any feedback from
any of the more experienced users.
Thanks,
Jonathan
snippet below:
\version "2.13.3"
#(define (my-callback grob)
(let* (
; have we been split?
(orig (ly:grob-original grob))
; if yes, get the split pieces (our siblings)
(siblings (if (ly:grob? orig)
(ly:spanner-broken-into orig) '() )))
(if (and (>= (length siblings) 2)
(eq? (car (last-pair siblings)) grob))
(ly:grob-set-property! grob 'control-points '((4 . 9) (6 . 13)
(17 . 14) (21 . 12))
rh = { \new Staff = "rh" {
<<
\new Voice { \voiceOne
\relative c' {
\key f \major
\partial 4 \once \override DynamicLineSpanner
#'outside-staff-padding = #2 c(\p |
\repeat volta 2 {
f2~ f8)
\once \override Slur #'positions = #'(2.5 . 6)
e[(
\once \override Hairpin #'rotation = #'(16 0 0)
\once \override Hairpin #'to-barline = ##f
\once \override Hairpin #'extra-offset = #'(0 . -0.5)
\once \override Hairpin #'X-offset = #1.5
\once \override Hairpin #'height = #0.4
\once \override DynamicLineSpanner #'outside-staff-priority =
##f
\once \override DynamicLineSpanner #'avoid-slur = #'inside
f^\< a] |
\once \override Beam #'positions = #'(3.5 . 4)
c\! f) f2 e8( d |
\once \override Beam #'positions = #'(4 . 3.5)
c[ f) g,( a]
\once \override Beam #'positions = #'(3.5 . 3)
bes[ d) f,( g] |
a c g2)
\once \override Slur #'outside-staff-priority = #1
\once \override Slur #'after-line-breaking = #my-callback
c,4^( \break |
f2~ f8)
\once \override Slur #'positions = #'(3 . 7)
e[(
\once \override Hairpin #'rotation = #'(19 0 0)
\once \override Hairpin #'to-barline = ##f
\once \override Hairpin #'extra-offset = #'(0 . -0.75)
\once \override Hairpin #'X-offset = #1.5
\once \override Hairpin #'height = #0.5
\once \override DynamicLineSpanner #'outside-staff-priority =
##f
\once \override DynamicLineSpanner #'avoid-slur = #'inside
f^\< a] |
c\! a') a4.\( g8[ f e] |
f[ a d, f] e4. ees8 |
d4 e!_\markup { \hspace #0.5 \italic \center-align "ritard." }
\acciaccatura c8 c2*1/2\) e,8\rest \once \override Slur
#'outside-staff-priority = #1 \once \override Slur #'extra-offset = #'(-2 . 0)
c( \break |
}
f2~ f8) e([ f a] |
c ees) ees2 d8( c |
bes[ d g, a] bes4. a8 |
g4. d8~ d4) b'8\rest f( |
bes2~ bes8) a([ bes d] |
f bes) bes2 a8( g |
f[ a d, e] f4. e8 |
d4. a8~ a4) \afterGrace g( { \once \override Stem
#'stroke-style = #"grace" c,8 } |
f2~ f8) e[( f a] |
c f) f2 e8( d |
c[ f) g,( a] bes[ d) f,( g] |
a c g2) c,4( |
f2~ f8) e[( f a] |
c a') a4.\fermata g8[( f d] |
c[ f) g,( a] bes[ d) g,( a] |
bes[ d) d,^\p( \once \override NoteSpacing #'X-extent = #'(0 .
2) ] f!2) -\tweak #'staff-padding #0.5 \fermata |
}
}
\new Voice { \voiceTwo
\relative c {
\partial 4 s4 |
r 2. |
r4 f'2.~ |
f4 e2 c4~ |
c c2 c4 |
r4 2. |
r4 2.~ |
a4. aes8 \once \override Slur #'Y-extent = #'(0 . 0) g([ c e,
fis] |
f!2) e4*2 |
r4 2. |
c''8 bes << { a2 } \new Voice { \voiceTwo s4 \change Staff =
"lh" \stemUp d,8 \change Staff = "rh" \stemDown \once \override NoteSpacing
#'X-extent = #
Re: outside-staff-priority with slur and hairpin
--- On Fri, 9/18/09, Trevor Daniels wrote: > From: Trevor Daniels > Subject: Re: outside-staff-priority with slur and hairpin > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" , lilypond-user@gnu.org > Date: Friday, September 18, 2009, 10:22 AM > > Jonathan Wilkes wrote Friday, September 18, 2009 6:51 AM > > > --- On Thu, 9/17/09, Trevor Daniels > wrote: > >> > >> Have you not read the Learning Manual? The > >> Notation Reference assumes you have. This is > >> explained in considerable detail in section > 4.4.3. > > > > Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I wanted to know why > I can't just set > > Hairpin to #1 and the Slur to #2 for > 'outside-staff-priority. And I > > forgot to search the LM before posting. > > > > Yes, I've read (but not memorized) the LM, and I see > that overriding the 'outside-staff-priority for > DynamicLineSpanner works > while using > > the same override for Hairpin does not. Yet > nothing in the section you > > refer to states that DynamicLineSpanner is the *only* > way to change > > 'outside-staff-priority for a dynamic. > > You make a valid point here. One one hand it should > be obvious that > you have to change the property in the correct object, but > OTOH it is > not obvious what the correct object is when spanners are > involved. > This is mentioned in the LM, but at some distance from the > section on > grobs and interfaces. At the end of 4.5.1 there's a > table of object > names that need to be tweaked to move various objects, > including > dynamics. I'll add a forward reference to that. > > Perhaps there should also be a gentle introduction to > spanners in the LM. > These are discussed in the Notation Reference (section > 5.4.6), but that > is a little fierce for starters. I'll think about > that. > > > There's a paragraph in LM 4.3.1 that says [regarding > properties of > > objects]: > > > > "Before we tackle this, let us remember that object > properties are grouped in what are called interfaces – see > Properties > > found in interfaces. This is simply to group together > those properties that may be used together to tweak a > graphical object > – if one of them is allowed > for an object, so are the others. Some objects then use the > properties in some interfaces, others > use them from > other interfaces. The interfaces which contain the > properties used by a particular grob are listed in the IR > at > > the bottom of the page describing that grob, and those > properties may be viewed by looking at those interfaces." > > > > So when it says properties are "allowed" for an > object, what exactly does > > that mean? Also, what does it mean to say "the > properties used by a > > particular grob?" > > > > I'm not a programmer, so some of this is a little > difficult to grasp, but > > by the logic of that paragraph what I'm getting is > that > > 'outside-staff-priority is a property that is allowed > for Hairpin objects > > (because I know 'transparent works on Hairpins and is > part of the grob > > interface), is used by Hairpin objects (because > grob-interface is listed > > at the bottom of the IR for Hairpin), but still cannot > be used to > > make the Hairpin go below the Slur in my example. > > This is not easily explained. An object has -access- > to all the properties > listed in the interfaces it supports, but it does not > necessarily honor them. > > The difficulty is that there is no general rule that can be > used to discover > which properties have an effect on a particular grob and > which do not. > In this case one has to know that hairpins are spanners > (because they > start and end at different musical moments), and spanners > are positioned > by the appropriate spanner object. I think this is the most difficult part of using Lilypond that I've come up against. Currently I'm using the IR as a kind of "quick reference" manual- if I need to tweak something like how long a hairpin should be, I just go to Hairpin and find what seems like the right property. But as your explanation (and others on this list) point to, there's a lot more to take into consideration to get the right property (e.g., 'font-size vs. 'zigzag-width for the width of the trill continuation glyph). -Jonathan > > Thanks for your comments - they are what I need to help me > to understand > how the LM might be improved. > > Trevor > > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: outside-staff-priority with slur and hairpin
--- On Thu, 9/17/09, Trevor Daniels wrote: > From: Trevor Daniels > Subject: Re: outside-staff-priority with slur and hairpin > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" , lilypond-user@gnu.org > Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 10:08 AM > > Jonathan Wilkes wrote Thursday, September 17, 2009 1:38 AM > > > > I did a quick exercise > typsetting a Schumann score, and I'm puzzled > > because to get the hairpin under the slur I had to > turn up > > 'outside-staff-priority for the slur to be greater > than 250. Otherwise, > > the snippet below doesn't work correctly. > > Reading the NR, it sounds like > Lilypond just sorts in increasing > > order for outside-staff objects. Why can't I > just set > > 'outside-staff-priority for the Hairpin to #1? > > Have you not read the Learning Manual? The > Notation Reference assumes you have. This is > explained in considerable detail in section 4.4.3. Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I wanted to know why I can't just set Hairpin to #1 and the Slur to #2 for 'outside-staff-priority. And I forgot to search the LM before posting. Yes, I've read (but not memorized) the LM, and I see that overriding the 'outside-staff-priority for DynamicLineSpanner works while using the same override for Hairpin does not. Yet nothing in the section you refer to states that DynamicLineSpanner is the *only* way to change 'outside-staff-priority for a dynamic. There's a paragraph in LM 4.3.1 that says [regarding properties of objects]: "Before we tackle this, let us remember that object properties are grouped in what are called interfaces – see Properties found in interfaces. This is simply to group together those properties that may be used together to tweak a graphical object – if one of them is allowed for an object, so are the others. Some objects then use the properties in some interfaces, others use them from other interfaces. The interfaces which contain the properties used by a particular grob are listed in the IR at the bottom of the page describing that grob, and those properties may be viewed by looking at those interfaces." So when it says properties are "allowed" for an object, what exactly does that mean? Also, what does it mean to say "the properties used by a particular grob?" I'm not a programmer, so some of this is a little difficult to grasp, but by the logic of that paragraph what I'm getting is that 'outside-staff-priority is a property that is allowed for Hairpin objects (because I know 'transparent works on Hairpins and is part of the grob interface), is used by Hairpin objects (because grob-interface is listed at the bottom of the IR for Hairpin), but still cannot be used to make the Hairpin go below the Slur in my example. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
outside-staff-priority with slur and hairpin
Hello,
I did a quick exercise typsetting a Schumann score, and I'm puzzled
because to get the hairpin under the slur I had to turn up
'outside-staff-priority for the slur to be greater than 250. Otherwise,
the snippet below doesn't work correctly.
Reading the NR, it sounds like Lilypond just sorts in increasing
order for outside-staff objects. Why can't I just set
'outside-staff-priority for the Hairpin to #1?
I also tried using 'avoid-slur (and turning off outside-staff-priority
for the hairpin) but to no avail.
Thanks,
Jonathan
\version "2.13.3"
\relative c' {
\key f \major
\once \override Slur #'outside-staff-priority = #251
\once \override Slur #'outside-staff-padding = #0
\once \override Slur #'height-limit = #2
\partial 4 c( |
f2~ f8 e[
\override Hairpin #'rotation = #'(7 0 0)
\override Hairpin #'X-offset = #-3
\override Hairpin #'Y-extent = #'(1 . 0)
\override Hairpin #'height = #0.4
\override Hairpin #'outside-staff-priority = #1
f a]^\< |
c f)\! 2 e8 d |
c
}
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Re: Creating a font usable in Finale and Sibelius
> Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:59:03 +0200 > From: Valentin Villenave > Subject: Re: Creating a font usable in Finale and Sibelius > Programs > To: Josh Nichols > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Josh Nichols > wrote: > > I really enjoy the look and feel of the LilyPond Feta > font, but I would like > > to use it in programs that can use other fonts like > Sibelius. > > This question has been asked a number of times (including > by yourself ;-) > see for instance > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2008-10/msg00762.html > > > I would really like to make this available and > continue the excellence that > > LilyPond and Feta font have created, minus the complex > language and > > programming necessary to make it happen. > > IMNSHO, this is Not A Good Idea (tm). > The Feta font is only a tiny tiny part of what makes > LilyPond > "excellent". And the Lily language really is not so > complex. Even so, that's no reason to abstain from making the Feta font available/usable in Sibelius/Finale. > > When I started using LilyPond, I was writing an opera and I > already > had engraved about 200 pages in Sibelius. Then I met > LilyPond. > > - For a while I tried to continue using Sibelius and > importing the > Feta font (just like you). That didn't work. Why not? If it's just a matter of matching the staff line weights to the font, as was mentioned in another email, that seems trivial. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Trillspanner line thickness
--- On Tue, 9/15/09, Robin Bannister wrote: > From: Robin Bannister > Subject: Re: Trillspanner line thickness > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" , lilypond-user@gnu.org > Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 10:44 AM > Jonathan Wilkes > wrote: > > I've tried zigzag-width, thickness [...] but > with no results. > > > These work if you use the zigzag style (which is not built > from glyphs). > \override TrillSpanner #'style = #'zigzag Ah, I knew there had to be a good reason why zigzag-width wasn't changing the zigzag's width! Thanks, Jonathan > > > Cheers, > Robin > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Trillspanner line thickness
Hello, I'm getting to the end of formatting a score, and I just need some hints on changing the thickness of the zigzag line after trills. I've tried zigzag-width, thickness, and everything else that looked promising but with no results. I didn't use font-size because I want the trill sign to stay the same size. Is what I want to do possible? Thanks, Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Suppressing Page numbers
Hello,
I'm trying to finish up a score and am doing something
fairly standard:
page 1: title (no page#)
page 2: blank (no page#)
page 3: "Notes" (no page#)
page 4: music (numbered as page #1)
I've seen a scheme function to suppress the first two pages, and a
command to renumber pages, but I can't figure out how to use the two
in tandem.
What would be great is just a single command to keep from printing
negative page numbers.
Here's my snippet:
\version "2.12.2"
\include "titling-init.ly"
#(define (skip-two-page-numbers layout props arg)
(if (or (> (chain-assoc-get 'page:page-number props -1)
(+ (ly:output-def-lookup layout 'first-page-number) 1))
(eq? (ly:output-def-lookup layout 'print-first-page-number) #t))
(create-page-number-stencil layout props arg)
empty-stencil))
\markup Title
\pageBreak
\markup " "
\pageBreak
\markup { \fill-line { "Notes" } }
\pageBreak
\score {
c d e f
}
\paper {
first-page-number = #-2
oddHeaderMarkup = \markup
\fill-line {
" "
\on-the-fly #not-first-page \fromproperty #'header:instrument
\on-the-fly #skip-two-page-numbers \fromproperty #'page:page-number-string
}
evenHeaderMarkup = \markup
\fill-line {
\on-the-fly #skip-two-page-numbers \fromproperty #'page:page-number-string
\on-the-fly #not-first-page \fromproperty #'header:instrument
" "
}
}
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Text Spanner on first note after line break
Hello,
Can anyone tell me what's going on in the following snippet? I want
"a tempo" to be printed above the first note after the line break, but
it's getting printed at the end of the 1st staff.
Am I doing something wrong?
Thanks,
Jonathan
\version "2.12.2"
\relative c' {
\once \override TextSpanner #'(bound-details left text) = #"accel"
\once \override TextSpanner #'(bound-details right text) = #"a tempo"
c\startTextSpan d e f \break |
c\stopTextSpan d e f |
}
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Possible bug
Hello, 1) Maybe related to issue 675: I notice if I have something like \f\> and I don't end the dimenuendo with a \!, the diminuendo isn't shown, and the \f disappears. But there's no error or warning output by Lilypond. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Editing Process
--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Kieren MacMillan wrote: > From: Kieren MacMillan > Subject: Re: Editing Process > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 9:04 PM > Hi Jonathan, > > > Any advice? > > Look at > > <http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/user/lilypond/Controlling-output#Controlling-output> > > Both of the techniques shown there can be helpful in > working with smaller sections of an existing piece. > > Hope this helps! > Kieren. > Thanks, I overlooked Score.skipTypeSetting when I read this the first time. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Editing Process
Hello, I recently finished entering 14 pages of music for a piano part of a duet. Going through the score, I see about 100 errors that I want to fix. But now that I have the entire part entered, Lilypond takes about 40secs to compile. I probably should have asked this before I started: how do the Lilypond experts edit their work and fix mistakes? Even if I only need to check results for 20% of those, that's about 15 minutes just for compiling the score (and that's assuming I get all the property names and offsets right). Any advice? Thanks, Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Feature Request: ^\times and _\times
> --- On Wed, 9/9/09, Neil Puttock > wrote: > > > From: Neil Puttock > > Subject: Re: Feature Request: ^\times and _\times > > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" > > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > > Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 12:07 AM > > 2009/9/8 Jonathan Wilkes : > > > I didn't see a place for feature requests on the > > documentation page, so > > > I thought I'd post it here. > > > > Hmm, I'm not quite sure what you're after, though I'd > guess > > you want a > > shorthand method of specifying tuplet bracket/number > > directions in > > advance of the music itself. You can't do this > using > > the direction > > tokens since they're exclusively tied to an event > which > > precedes them > > (i.e., a note). > > Well, darn. That's exactly what I was after. > > > > > > Also ^[ and _[ which I think I mentioned in > another > > email. > > > > This is possible, though (in fact I knocked up a patch > a > > few months > > ago which implements it; if you like, I'll dust it off > and > > invite > > comments for review). > > I hope you'll do the honorable thing, sir, and marry it > (Sorry, > I couldn't help myself). > Hi Neil, My message got garbled somehow, but basically I was saying I'm in favor of you dusting off that patch you mentioned. Also, I'll be happy to test it out. Thanks, Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Feature Request: ^\times and _\times
--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Neil Puttock wrote: > From: Neil Puttock > Subject: Re: Feature Request: ^\times and _\times > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 12:07 AM > 2009/9/8 Jonathan Wilkes : > > I didn't see a place for feature requests on the > documentation page, so > > I thought I'd post it here. > > Hmm, I'm not quite sure what you're after, though I'd guess > you want a > shorthand method of specifying tuplet bracket/number > directions in > advance of the music itself. You can't do this using > the direction > tokens since they're exclusively tied to an event which > precedes them > (i.e., a note). Well, darn. That's exactly what I was after. > > > Also ^[ and _[ which I think I mentioned in another > email. > > This is possible, though (in fact I knocked up a patch a > few months > ago which implements it; if you like, I'll dust it off and > invite > comments for review). I hope you'll do the honorable thing, sir, and marry it (Sorry, I couldn't help myself). >From what I've seen, Lilypond seems to do a good job with beam directions, so there have only been a few situations where I would have benefited from _[ or ^]. But I can imagine in some really complicated instances with lots of voices it could be very handy. So yes, I'd certainly be in favor of the whole dusting-off process :) Something else I just though of, is that there isn't a shortcut for setting the direction of stems that aren't beamed. It would be helpful if there were a shortcut you could put after c4 to set the stem direction. Maybe like ^| or _| Thanks, Jonathan > > Regards, > Neil > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Relative thickness of PianoStaff Braces
Hello,
I'm having trouble tweaking the Brace at the beginning of a system.
My test code is below; basically, I'd like to make the brace oonnecting
three staves less thick.
That brings me to my second question. I've attached two pngs, one of
Lilypond braces and the other from a Durand score of Debussy's 1st
Prelude, Bk. II, available here:
http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/d/dd/IMSLP00510-Debussy_-_Preludes__Book_2.pdf
Both Durand braces are of course much thicker, but the point is that they
have comparable weights (not sure what to call it).
Lilypond's large brace basically looks like the smaller brace has been
enlarged by about 170%, which looks a lot less elegant. Shouldn't the
brace be stretched vertically without changing the thickness?
-Jonathan
example code:
\version "2.12.2"
\score {
\new PianoStaff
% \override PianoStaff.SystemStartBrace #'thickness = #0.2
<<
\new Staff = "rh" {
<< { c' d' e' f' }
\new Staff \with { alignAboveContext = "rh" } { c' d' e' f' }
>>
\break
c' d' e' f'
}
\new Staff {
c' d' e' f'
c' d' e' f'
}
>>
}
\paper {
indent = 0
}
%\layout {
% \context { \PianoStaff
% \override SystemStartBrace #'thickness = #0.2
% }
%}
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Questions about PianoStaff Braces
Hello,
I'm having trouble tweaking the Brace at the beginning of a system.
My test code is below; basically, I'd like to make the brace oonnecting
three staves less thick.
That brings me to my second question:
\score {
\new PianoStaff
% \override PianoStaff.SystemStartBrace #'thickness = #0.2
<<
\new Staff = "rh" {
<< { c' d' e' f' }
\new Staff \with { alignAboveContext = "rh" } { c' d' e' f' }
>>
\break
c' d' e' f'
}
\new Staff {
c' d' e' f'
c' d' e' f'
}
>>
}
\paper {
indent = 0
}
%\layout {
% \context { \PianoStaff
% \override SystemStartBrace #'thickness = #0.2
% }
%}
http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/d/dd/IMSLP00510-Debussy_-_Preludes__Book_2.pdf
Durand
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Feature Request: ^\times and _\times
I didn't see a place for feature requests on the documentation page, so I thought I'd post it here. Also ^[ and _[ which I think I mentioned in another email. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: tieWaitForNote across staves
--- On Mon, 9/7/09, Robin Bannister wrote: > From: Robin Bannister > Subject: Re: tieWaitForNote across staves > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" , "lilypond-user" > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 1:02 AM > Jonathan Wilkes > wrote: > > I see a "cross-staff" property for grobs > > But this doesn't mean that every sort of grob has it, or > uses it. Hi Robin, Thanks for the reply. That clears up some things, but I'm still a little confused: let's say I open up the IR, start in the Voice context, and click the layout object TieColumn. Now at the bottom of the TieColumn page, it says, "This object supports the following interface(s)..." and there's the grob-interface. I previously thought that everything listed under the grob-interface would be common to all grobs, so that if you know something is a grob, you also know definitively that you can make it invisible with 'transparent, for example. But since that's not the case, why does it say "This object supports..." at the bottom of the page for the object? Does that mean they are available but not necessarily implemented? > The file define-grob-properties.scm lists about a dozen > grobs which do: Beam, Stem, Slur, TupletBracket, among > others, but not TieColumn. Ah, I'll keep this file in mind for future problems. > So your TieColumn only knows about the lower staff. > IR 3.2.109 says that a tie-configuration position is > > the offset from the center of the staff in staff > space > i.e. the center of the lower staff in this case. > When you specify positions high on the lower staff, > Lilypond takes care that this _doesn't_ intrude on the upper > staff. > > Cheers, > Robin > Thanks. I finally found a solution by just using a sextuplet in the right hand as well, and hiding the notes but leaving the ties. tieWaitForNote is very handy. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Markup Causes Beaming Problem
--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Neil Puttock wrote: > From: Neil Puttock > Subject: Re: Markup Causes Beaming Problem > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:38 PM > 2009/9/5 Jonathan Wilkes : > > > Is this bug #430? > > No, but it has been fixed recently. I'll backport it > to the stable > version in a moment so it'll be included in 2.12.3. Oh, ok, thanks. > > > Also, what's the best way to make that slur in the > bass clef look nice? > > It seems to be colliding with the accent mark and with > the bottom of one > > of the natural signs. Any insight would be > appreciated. > > You could try tweaking 'ratio a bit to allow the slur to > approach its > maximum height more easily and changing the slur avoidance > for accents > (which defaults to 'around): > > \once \override Slur #'ratio = #1 > \once \override Script #'avoid-slur = #'inside Thanks a lot, I'll try that setting for 'avoid-slur and see how it works. -Jonathan > > Regards, > Neil > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: The LilyPond Report, again!
> Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 21:01:12 +0200 > From: Valentin Villenave > Subject: Re: The LilyPond Report, again! > To: Valentin Villenave > Cc: Lilypond Users > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi everybody, > > Here's (at last) a new LilyReport: > > Welcome to this sixteenth issue of the LilyPond Report! > > While today’s instalment certainly took its time, > here it is at last, > with many guests and contributions that will definitely > make it up. > Before reading, here’s a little game for you: Who > said… > * "There’s tons of things that I > don’t truly care about"? > * "LilyPond is just too flexible"? > * "Approach a computer and anything may cause > a problem"? > You'll find the answers by reading the full issue on > http://news.lilynet.net/The-LilyPond-Report-16 > > Many thanks for all of those who have contributed to this > issue; it > has taken some time but it was worth it! > > Regards, > Valentin > > PS. Just a clue: the first one is easy ;-) > Thanks for this! After reading the quote about \slurUp vs. ^( a light clicked and I now realize you can control tie direction in a chord with However, now I'm wondering: what corresponds to \stemUp? Also, maybe ^[ and _[ would be useful. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: tieWaitForNote across staves
Ok, here's my attempt at getting the cross stave ties from my previous
email. The problem I'm running into is that when I try to set a tie's
vertical position to get it into the RH staff, Lilypond starts a
Vaudeville shtick and moves the staff up beyond my reach (which I guess
is what you normally want to avoid staff collisions).
I see a "cross-staff" property for grobs, but it's internal. Any advice?
-Jonathan
\version "2.12.2"
\score { <<
\new Staff = "RH" {
\relative c' {
s4
% \set tieWaitForNote = ##t
\stemUp
8
\stemNeutral
}
}
\new Staff = "LH" {
\relative c {
\clef bass
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t
\stemUp
\times 4/6 { fis16~[ b~
\change Staff = "RH" dis~ gis~ c8~] }
\change Staff = "LH"
\stemUp
\once \override NoteHead #'no-ledgers = ##t
\once \override Stem #'cross-staff = ##t
\once \override Stem #'length = #12
\once \override Stem #'flag-style = #'no-flag
\once \override TieColumn #'cross-staff = ##t
\once \override TieColumn #'tie-configuration = #'((11.0 . -1)
(9.5 . -1) (13.0 . -1) (0.5 . -1) (2.5 . -1))
8 \stemNeutral
\stemNeutral
}
}
>>
}
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Re: tieWaitForNote across staves
--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Robin Bannister wrote: > From: Robin Bannister > Subject: Re: tieWaitForNote across staves > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" , "lilypond-user" > > Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 6:28 PM > Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > > I tried fooling around with tieWaitForNote > > You didn't show your code, so it's not easy to guess what > you tried. > I have no cross-staff experience, but it looks to me like > the cross-staff run is a lot better supported than the > cross-staff chord (where you have to choose a stem length). > > At any rate, it seems from NR 2.2.1 that the beamed run > should be in just one voice but the chord should be in two > voices. This is incompatible with ties. > So I assume you have to fool around with hidden notes to > give tieWaitForNote a start in both chord voices. See > hidden.ly for two ways of doing this. Oops, I guess it's much more helpful to show the code. I'll have a look at hidden.ly and see if I can get it to work. Thanks, -Jonathan > > Cheers, > Robin ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
tieWaitForNote across staves
Hello, Is there a way to get the attached notation in Lilypond? I tried fooling around with tieWaitForNote but it seems the ties set in the rh keeping on waiting, and waiting, and waiting... Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Jonathan <>___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Markup Causes Beaming Problem
Hello,
I think Lilypond is being a weirdo.
The second beam looks messed up to me (winxp sp3), but when I remove
the _"x" markup, the \p, or the slur in the treble clef, it clears up.
Is this bug #430?
Also, what's the best way to make that slur in the bass clef look nice?
It seems to be colliding with the accent mark and with the bottom of one
of the natural signs. Any insight would be appreciated.
-Jonathan
Code Below:
\version "2.12.2"
rhStaff = { \change Staff = "RH" }
lhStaff = { \change Staff = "LH" }
sb = {
\once \set subdivideBeams = ##t
\once \set beatLength = #(ly:make-moment 1 8)
}
\relative c''' {
\time 3/4
<<
\new Staff = "RH" {
r32 \sb cis[(\p d, ais' gis c,_"x" a ees]
\stemDown b'[ fis cis \lhStaff \clef bass
\stemUp e, \rhStaff \stemDown -.) r \lhStaff \stemUp ]->( \stemNeutral 8..)\sustainOn \rhStaff 32-. |
}
\new Staff = "LH" { s2. }
>>
}
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Re: lilypond-user Digest, Vol 82, Issue 13
> Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:36:49 +0200 > From: Joseph Wakeling > Subject: Re: Contemporary music documentation > To: Graham Percival > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Message-ID: <4aa0dfb1.6090...@webdrake.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Graham Percival wrote: > > Those "actual contemporary scores" must be placed in > the public > > domain, licensed under Creative Commons, or licensed > under the GNU > > FDL. If you're thinking about an exerpt of > Shostakovich or Glass, > > then forget about it. Blame copyright law[1], > not me. > > Actually I was thinking of Ferneyhough, but ... :-P > > Anyway, exactly the answer I was expecting. Not a > problem -- will just > have to be inventive with examples. Thanks for the > explanation. > > I'll get on with more work/patches (hopefully without DOS > line-endings...) and we'll see where this goes ... > > > Oh, and make sure you vote for your country's Pirate > Party. > > Branches started recently in the UK and Canada, so > I've got my > > next elections' votes lined up. ;) > > :-) > > Best wishes, > > -- Joe I was surprised to see that someone has made a pdf of John Cage's "Notations." Some of the overarching techniques I see are: * angular and squiggly lines in the staff to denote general pitch content * angular and squiggly lines outside the staff * grace notes without heads, slash through the left corner of beamed grace notes * feathered beams that swell in the middle of the beam group * long horizontal lines, both outside the staff, and inside the staff following a notehead to show the duration * lots of different arrows, brackets and boxes that go around notes, staves, staff groups, and other parts of the score * text in between staves, systems, in margins, with bounding boxes, etc., * text rotated 90 degrees Btw- what do you call the little signature that is rotated 90 degrees and put to the right of the final barline? It's usually the composer's signature and the date (and sometimes the name of the city where the piece was written). There should be a way to specify that in the \header block if there isn't already. There's also a lot of creative placement of text. Of course if you were to notate one of the purely textual pieces you probably would be better off using another piece of software, but it would still be nice to have a guide to controlling vertical text placement for a title page. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Space before staff lines in ossia
> Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 02:15:52 -0700 (PDT) > From: -Eluze > Subject: Re: Space before staff lines in ossia > To: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Message-ID: <25290931.p...@talk.nabble.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > jancsika wrote: > > > > Hello, > > Here's a picky little question: > what's the best way to get the staff > > lines of the ossia measure to extend, say, half a > staff space before the > > first note (*without* changing any of the current > spacing between notes)? > > Ideally I'd like to be able to set this in a \layout > block. > > > > > > instead of removing the Time_signature_engraver you can > > \override TimeSignature #'stencil = ##f > > which automagically creates more distance at the left > > hope this does what you want Yes, that does exactly what I want. Thanks a lot. -Jonathan > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/Space-before-staff-lines-in-ossia-tp25288074p25290931.html > Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - User mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Space before staff lines in ossia
Hello,
Here's a picky little question: what's the best way to get the staff
lines of the ossia measure to extend, say, half a staff space before the
first note (*without* changing any of the current spacing between notes)?
Ideally I'd like to be able to set this in a \layout block.
-Jonathan
\version "2.12.2"
\score {
\new Staff = "main" {
\relative c' {
c(\mf\< d ees f )\ff |
\key d \major
fis(\pp\<
<<
{
g a b)\mf |
}
\new Staff \with { \remove Time_signature_engraver
\remove Key_engraver
\remove Clef_engraver
alignAboveContext = "main" }
{
\key d \major b c d |
}
>>
}
}
}
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Re: Lilypond Speed
--- On Sat, 8/29/09, Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) wrote: > From: Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) > Subject: Re: Lilypond Speed > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 6:40 AM > Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > > It sounds like there is a wide discrepancy depending > on machine/os/etc. > > Does anyone have any insight into how I could decrease > this time on my winxp machine? > > > > I feel like if I could get it down to something close > to one second, it would be a lot easier to learn Lilypond. > > > > Also: is there a way using LilypondTool to set > Lilypond to run every time I enter a barcheck? > > > Sure, as you can set a shortcut for running LilyPond, see > Utilities>Global options>Shortcuts, you can set the > shortcut to be | > > Bert Hi Bert, It seems that when I set "|" to be a shortcut for "Run Lilypond," it no longer prints the character; it only runs the shortcut. Do you know if there's a workaround for this? Thanks, Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Accidentals: Unwanted naturals
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:21:34 -0700
> From: Kees van den Doel
> Subject: Re: Accidentals: Unwanted naturals
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> >From: Kieren MacMillan
> > Hi David R,
> >
> > > AFAIK, all of the graphical-interface music
> scoring programs
> > > use the visually-oriented logic.
> >
> > The last time I used Finale — which, thankfully, was
> a very long
> > time
> > ago! ;) — there were only two ways of entering
> notes:
> >
> > 1. From a MIDI keyboard: Clearly, you can't "follow
> the
> > key
> > signature" with this method, since pressing a (MIDI)
> g-sharp
> > gives a
> > g-sharp, regardless of the key signature.
> > 2. Mouse/QWERTY keyboard ("Speedy"?) entry: When you
> clicked
> > on
> > (e.g.) the "g-line" of the treble clef, a g-NATURAL
> > appeared,
> > regardless of the key signature, and you had to scroll
> up or
> > down (or
> > click-add an accidental) to change the
> pitch/alteration.
> >
> > Is that not still true? Are there any Finale or
> Sibelius users
> > out
> > there who can confirm what model these prorgrams use?
>
> Of course these programs operate as you describe. If you
> edit a piece in G major
> and enter the notes through a MIDI keyboard you have to
> play E F# G, not
> E F G, and I can't imagine an other way. Well I can, but it
> is like playing a piano with
> a "key" setting so that when you hit the F, an F# sounds if
> you set the G-major mode.
>
> Kees (An ex Finale user who'll never go back)
In Finale, both Speedy Entry and Simple Entry
add notes to the staff without putting any accidentals in front of the
note. If you're in c-major and you enter a note on the middle line of the
treble clef, it's a b-natural. If you're in f-major, it's entered as a
b-flat.
Handling these types of graphical entry in the same way as Lilypond would
be peculiar, because in Finale the process is a kind of computer-assisted
hand engraving where you put the mouse pointer on the staff and click to
let the program "etch" the note for you. If you were to hand engrave a
piece in f-major and you wanted a b-flat, you would just etch the
note-head on the middle line, so that's the metaphor for GUI entry.
In Lilypond that would be analogous to a system to specify which line,
space, or ledger line on the staff you want the notehead to be drawn on.
It is not, however, analogous to using the character "f" to specify
an f-sharp in the key of d-major; from the user's point of view, Finale
remains agnostic on what to call the note that's being entered. If
there were a speech-recognition plugin in Finale that would draw an
f-sharp when "f" was spoken, I'm sure a lot of theory teachers would
be up in arms.
-Jonathan
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Re: Accidentals: Unwanted naturals
--- On Sat, 8/29/09, Graham Percival wrote: > From: Graham Percival > Subject: Re: Accidentals: Unwanted naturals > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 7:10 AM > On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:01:05PM > -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > > > If the above seems confusing, consider this: if > you were > > > playing a > > > piano, which key would you hit? If you would > press a black > > > key, > > > then you must add -is or -es to the note name! > > > > The hint at the end about black keys doesn't work for > b- and e-sharp, nor > > c- and f-flat, nor double-sharps and flats. > > Yes, but most novices with no knowledge of lilypond or > music > theory won't be writing in 5 sharps or flats, double-sharps > or > flats, or b/c e/f sharp/flats. These accidentals are common. B-sharp crops up in jazz tunes, even in c major, as a lower chromatic neighbor to c-sharp in a little tinkling over an A7 chord. If it's repeated within a measure, you don't have to know any music theory at all to realize that b-sharp to c-sharp is a lot easier to read than alternating natural- and sharp-signs in front of what looks like a stationary note. Using the black key/white key dichotomy makes other sharps/flats seem more exotic than they are, which leads to poor notation when unnecessarily avoiding them. > > > > What about something like this: > > > If the above seems confusing, imagine someone asks you > for the first > > four notes of Beethoven's fifth. If you say, "g, > g, g, e-flat," you > > are correct. However, if you say "g, g, g, e," > you are wrong and > > will be corrected by any theory teacher within a > fifty-foot radius as > > follows: > > "That's an e-flat, not an e. Have a look at the > key signature." > > > > Unlike the theory teacher above, Lilypond doesn't know > the answers ahead > > of time and assumes you know what you're doing. > The way you say > > note-names out loud at sounding pitch corresponds > directly to the > > way you enter pitches into a Lilypond score. That > means no matter what key > > signature you put in front of it, Beethoven's fifth > always starts with > > g g g ees when input into a Lilypond score. > > Too verbose. It also relies on knowledge of > Beethoven's fifth > [symphony]. Do people in China know classical Western > music that > well? What about a banjo players who's only done > fiddle tunes? > > It's true that the piano example won't be understood by > somebody > who's never seen a piano before, but at a certain point > there's > nothing we can do other than pointing people at a music > theory > website or whatever. Yes, I agree with the points you make. I would just add that there is a big discrepancy between GUI notation programs and Lilypond regarding this issue. In a GUI program if you're in d-major and you enter a note on the top line of the treble clef, it's an f-sharp by default. But after re-reading the LM I think it's pretty clear on these issues, so that someone "making the switch" need only read and reflect. -Jonathan > > Cheers, > - Graham > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lilypond Speed
--- On Sat, 8/29/09, Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) wrote: > From: Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) > Subject: Re: Lilypond Speed > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 6:40 AM > Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > > It sounds like there is a wide discrepancy depending > on machine/os/etc. > > Does anyone have any insight into how I could decrease > this time on my winxp machine? > > > > I feel like if I could get it down to something close > to one second, it would be a lot easier to learn Lilypond. > > > > Also: is there a way using LilypondTool to set > Lilypond to run every time I enter a barcheck? > > > Sure, as you can set a shortcut for running LilyPond, see > Utilities>Global options>Shortcuts, you can set the > shortcut to be | > > Bert Ah, of course. Thanks a lot, Bert. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lilypond Speed
It sounds like there is a wide discrepancy depending on machine/os/etc. Does anyone have any insight into how I could decrease this time on my winxp machine? I feel like if I could get it down to something close to one second, it would be a lot easier to learn Lilypond. Also: is there a way using LilypondTool to set Lilypond to run every time I enter a barcheck? Thanks, Jonathan --- On Fri, 8/28/09, Thomas Scharkowski wrote: > From: Thomas Scharkowski > Subject: Re: Lilypond Speed > To: lilypond-user@gnu.org, "Jonathan Wilkes" > Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 8:59 PM > I'm sure it is a little more, but not > much ;-) > > Thomas > Intel E6750 @ 2.66Ghz, 2 GM RAM > Windows Xp SP3, LilyPondTool > > -- > Processing `C:/LilyPondFiles/test/time.ly' > Parsing... > Interpreting music... > Preprocessing graphical objects... > Solving 1 page-breaking chunks...[1: 1 pages] > Drawing systems... > Layout output to `time.ps'... > Converting to `./time.pdf'... > Processing time: 0 seconds > > > LilyPond ready. > > -- > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Accidentals: Unwanted naturals
> Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:24:51 +0100 > From: Graham Percival > Subject: Re: Accidentals: Unwanted naturals > To: Leonardo Herrera > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Message-ID: <20090825182451.gb29...@sapphire> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 10:05:45AM -0400, Leonardo Herrera > wrote: > > I do have a suggestion: I would add two examples to > the section that > > shows this clearly. > > How is that more clear than: > > > In this example: > > \key d \major > d cis fis > > No note has a printed accidental, but you must still add is > and > type cis and fis in the input file. > > The code b does not mean “print a black dot just on > the middle > line of the staff.� Rather, it means “there is > a note with pitch > B-natural.� In the key of A-flat major, it does get > an accidental: > > \key aes \major > b > > If the above seems confusing, consider this: if you were > playing a > piano, which key would you hit? If you would press a black > key, > then you must add -is or -es to the note name! > -- The hint at the end about black keys doesn't work for b- and e-sharp, nor c- and f-flat, nor double-sharps and flats. What about something like this: If the above seems confusing, imagine someone asks you for the first four notes of Beethoven's fifth. If you say, "g, g, g, e-flat," you are correct. However, if you say "g, g, g, e," you are wrong and will be corrected by any theory teacher within a fifty-foot radius as follows: "That's an e-flat, not an e. Have a look at the key signature." Unlike the theory teacher above, Lilypond doesn't know the answers ahead of time and assumes you know what you're doing. The way you say note-names out loud at sounding pitch corresponds directly to the way you enter pitches into a Lilypond score. That means no matter what key signature you put in front of it, Beethoven's fifth always starts with g g g ees when input into a Lilypond score. --- I say "sounding pitch" so that it covers transposing instruments as well. -Jonathan > > > Really, all the info is already there. > > Cheers, > - Graham > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Lilypond Speed
Hello,
I'm curious how long it takes for other people to run lilypond on the
following simple score:
\relative c' {
c4 d e fis
}
I'm on winxp sp3, pentium 1.7Ghz with 512mb ram and it consistently takes
7 seconds to complete, whether I do it on the command line or in
LilypondTool.
-Jonathan
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RE: Scheme function for ossia
Thanks Kieren. I've seen this technique mentioned regarding another
issue I had, so I guess I should explore it some more.
One thing I don't get is why, in NR 5.1.6 is there a need for the
following:
\consists Note_heads_engraver
\consists Text_engraver
These are already part of the Voice context because of the use of
\alias, so isn't this redundant?
Another thing I noticed is that \type, \alias, \remove, and \name are
not in Appendix F of the NR.
-Jonathan
--- On Mon, 8/24/09, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
> From: Kieren MacMillan
> Subject: RE: Scheme function for ossia
> To: jancs...@yahoo.com, lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 1:12 PM
>
> Hi Jonathan,
>
> > Would probably help if I showed the file :). I'm
> guessing the problem
> > is it's not allowed to use a variable inside of the
> braces after the \with
> > command, but I don't understand why.
>
> I don't know how to solve your Scheme problem, but this is
> what I would do.
> Hope it helps!
>
> Cheers,
> Kieren.
>
> __
>
> \version "2.12.2"
>
> \layout {
> \context {
> \Staff
> \type "Engraver_group"
> \name "OssiaStaff"
> \alias "Staff"
> \remove "Time_signature_engraver"
> fontSize = #-3
> \override StaffSymbol #'staff-space =
> #(magstep -3)
> \override StaffSymbol #'thickness = #(magstep
> -3)
> }
> \context {
> \Score
> \accepts "OssiaStaff"
> }
> }
>
> myMelody =
> {
> \new Staff = main {
> \relative c' {
> c8 d e f g a b c |
> <<
> {
> d1
> }
> {
> \new OssiaStaff \with {
> alignAboveContext = #"main" } {
> \relative c' {
> \clef
> bass
> c4 d e f
> }
> }
> }
> >>
> }
> }
> }
>
> \score {
> \myMelody
> \layout {
> }
> }
>
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Re: Scheme function for ossia
--- On Mon, 8/24/09, Trevor Daniels wrote:
> From: Trevor Daniels
> Subject: Re: Scheme function for ossia
> To: "Jonathan Wilkes" , lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 10:42 AM
>
> Jonathan Wilkes wrote Monday, August 24, 2009 6:24 AM
>
>
> > Would probably help if I showed the file :). I'm
> guessing the problem
> > is it's not allowed to use a variable inside of the
> braces after the \with
> > command, but I don't understand why.
>
> Correct. A \with clause may contain only
>
> a) property operations
>
> That's changing context or grob properties
>
> b) context definitions
>
> That's things like \consists, \accepts etc.
>
> This was one of my questions as a newbie
> three years ago next week! The answer came
> from Nicolaus Sceaux, see
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2006-08/msg00560.html
Happy Anniversary! I neglected to use the search term "function" so
I missed this.
>
> A music function has to return some music,
> so you need to pass the ossia music to the
> music function too, and include the \new Staff
> as well, like this:
>
> ossia = #(define-music-function (parser location staffName
> music)
> (string? ly:music?)
> #{
> \new Staff \with {
> alignAboveContext = #$staffName
> \remove "Time_signature_engraver"
> fontSize = #-3
> \override StaffSymbol #'staff-space =
> #(magstep -3)
> \override StaffSymbol #'thickness =
> #(magstep -3)
> }
> $music
> #})
>
> Trevor
>
That seems like an even shorter shortcut than what I was aiming for,
thanks!
One thing I don't understand is why the example in the scheme tutorial
(tempoPadded under "Tweaking with Scheme") doesn't seem to return
any music, but uses define-music-function.
-Jonathan
> > -Jonathan
> >
> > \version "2.12.2"
> >
> > ossia = #(define-music-function (parser location
> staffName)
> > (string?)
> > #{
> > alignAboveContext = #$staffName
> > \remove "Time_signature_engraver"
> > fontSize = #-3
> > \override StaffSymbol #'staff-space = #(magstep -3)
> > \override StaffSymbol #'thickness = #(magstep -3)
> > #})
> >
> > myMelody = \new Staff = main {
> > \relative c' {
> > c8 d e f g a b c |
> > <<
> > {
> > d1
> > }
> > {
> > \new Staff \with { \ossia #'main } {
> > \relative c' {
> > \clef bass
> > c4 d e f
> > }
> > }
> > }
> > >>
> > }
> > }
> >
> > \score {
> > \myMelody
> > \layout {
> > }
> > }
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > lilypond-user mailing list
> > lilypond-user@gnu.org
> > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
> >
>
>
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Re: Scheme function for ossia
Would probably help if I showed the file :). I'm guessing the problem
is it's not allowed to use a variable inside of the braces after the \with
command, but I don't understand why.
-Jonathan
\version "2.12.2"
ossia = #(define-music-function (parser location staffName)
(string?)
#{
alignAboveContext = #$staffName
\remove "Time_signature_engraver"
fontSize = #-3
\override StaffSymbol #'staff-space = #(magstep -3)
\override StaffSymbol #'thickness = #(magstep -3)
#})
myMelody = \new Staff = main {
\relative c' {
c8 d e f g a b c |
<<
{
d1
}
{
\new Staff \with { \ossia #'main } {
\relative c' {
\clef bass
c4 d e f
}
}
}
>>
}
}
\score {
\myMelody
\layout {
}
}
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Scheme function for ossia
This is my first attempt at a scheme function, just to make a shortcut so that I don't have to type out all the overrides when making an ossia staff. But I get an unexpected string error when I try to compile it. Any advice on why this doesn't work? Thanks, Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Fw: Text Spanner with more than two words
Oops, I posted this to the devlist by mistake: --- On Sun, 8/23/09, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > From: Jonathan Wilkes > Subject: Text Spanner with more than two words > To: lilypond-de...@gnu.org > Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 8:03 PM > Hello, > What's the easiest way to do text > spanners with, say, three or > four words? So something like: > > accel.---meno mosso---rit.---a tempo > > I've tried using above-staff decrescendo and setting the > text as needed, > which does work, but then I have to create another layer if > there are also > hairpins. > > I checked NR and snippets, but couldn't find > anything. Is there a better > solution? > > Thanks, > Jonathan > > > > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Wideining one measure so that dynamics don't overlap
> I have a score with a whole note with \p on the first beat
> and \f on the third
> beat of the measure. I'm doing this using parallel music
> expressions:
> << { g1} { s2\p s\f} >> | % 42
>
> Now, the problem is that the score consists almost entirely
> of whole or half
> notes, so that measure is too small and the f is printed
> above the p (since it
> would collide with the f).
>
> How can I make that one measure wider, while all other
> measures are spaced
> normally? I can't make the whole horizontal spacing wider,
> because then the
> music wouldn't fit on one page any more. However, there are
> several measures
> with whole notes, which can be a bit smaller to obtain the
> space needed for
> those wider measures.
>
> Attached is a sample file for my case, where everything
> should fit in one line..
Hm...as I beginner I tried to figure this out because I thought there
should be a clear way to do this. I tried a lot of different properties
for DynamicLineSpanner (padding, minimum length, extra-spacing-width,
side-axis), and then I found outside-staff-horizontal-padding in the grob
interface. Great! But it doesn't work (and the description in the IR
talks about "raising" the grob to avoid a collision, which doesn't
make sense given the name of the property).
What's the best way to find the right property for an override?
-Jonathan
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Re: new website, draft 7
--- On Wed, 8/12/09, Graham Percival wrote: > From: Graham Percival > Subject: Re: new website, draft 7 > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" > Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org, "Jonathan Kulp" > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 3:44 AM > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 03:18:16PM > -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > > > > 1. On the examples page, under the "Jesu, Meine > Freude", it says > > (click for longer excerpt) when it should say (click > to enlarge). > > Thanks, fixed. > > > 2. On the examples page, under Modern Music, one > of the f's is shifted > > down for some reason in the score for by Trevor Baca > (bottom staff). > > It's a spacing issue; a bug. > > Jonathan: investigate, tweak the input, use a different > version of > lilypond, whatever. > > > 3. On the features page, under the "No Fiddling" > heading, it says, > > "Don’t waste time with tweaking the output." I > think should read "Spend less time tweaking output." I > say this because (as far as I know) there > > are still simple things like measure numbers floating > above text spanners > > that require tweaks (albeit simple ones). > > Good point, done. > > > 4. On the frontpage, there's a lilypad sitting > on top of Lilypond's output :) > > Yeah, I'm not wild about that, but most people seem to like > it. :| Wow, I'm out of touch! But I'm also not a designer so I come offering no alternatives. I like the angled white staff in the background, though. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re:new website, draft 7
Hello, I have a few minor comments about the new website: 1. On the examples page, under the "Jesu, Meine Freude", it says (click for longer excerpt) when it should say (click to enlarge). 2. On the examples page, under Modern Music, one of the f's is shifted down for some reason in the score for by Trevor Baca (bottom staff). 3. On the features page, under the "No Fiddling" heading, it says, "Don’t waste time with tweaking the output." I think should read "Spend less time tweaking output." I say this because (as far as I know) there are still simple things like measure numbers floating above text spanners that require tweaks (albeit simple ones). 4. On the frontpage, there's a lilypad sitting on top of Lilypond's output :) Btw, it's a great looking site! I'm really impressed with all the work that's gone into Lilypond's development/documentation/webdesign. Best, Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cross Staff Beaming
--- On Tue, 8/11/09, Mark Polesky wrote: > From: Mark Polesky > Subject: Re: Cross Staff Beaming > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" , lilypond-user@gnu.org > Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 7:45 AM > Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > > > I'm trying to do some cross-staff > beams in the middle of a piano staff. > > They seem to work pretty well, but I think the beaming > is wrong. > > > > In beat 2, the 6-tuplet starts in the > right-hand. I don't have the > > Kurt Stone book on modern notation in front of me, but > if I remember > > correctly, the staff of the first note sets the > reference for the beams. > > That would mean the a-sharp 32nd-note should connect > at the bottom beam, > > not the top one. > > No, that's wrong. But I admit, these rules are sometimes > confusing > (I had to open the Stone book to make sure). And as strange > as > these beams might look, LilyPond gets them right. One thing > Stone > is clear about is that the priority is to avoid what he > calls "beam > corners" (exposed right-angles). Ideally a beam group has > only two > beam corners (the unavoidable ones at the beginning and > end). If > you connect said A-sharp 32-note to the lowest beam of the > 6-tuplet > you'd get a beam corner at the top-right of the 6-tuplet. > > And the last beat sure looks weird, but some note-patterns > are > simply incorrigible WRT beaming*, and I think that's the > case here. > You could try breaking the last beat into two beam groups, > and/or > adding \set stemRightBeamCount = #1 just before the last > note of > each triplet, or you could just lean back with the smug > feeling > that you write music that challenges the rules of > notation... If the beams look strange, it must be worthwhile music, right? :) I tried adding the tweak you mentioned-- it looks a little funky. But given the guideline about avoiding "beam corners," I can see how the beam in beat 3 makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Cross Staff Beaming
Hello,
I'm trying to do some cross-staff beams in the middle of a piano staff.
They seem to work pretty well, but I think the beaming is wrong.
In beat 2, the 6-tuplet starts in the right-hand. I don't have the
Kurt Stone book on modern notation in front of me, but if I remember
correctly, the staff of the first note sets the reference for the beams.
That would mean the a-sharp 32nd-note should connect at the bottom beam,
not the top one. Same for the subdivided beam in beat 3.
Is this right? If so, is there a way to correct this? Or is there a better
way to create cross-staff beams?
Thanks,
Jonathan
\version "2.12.2"
rhStaff = { \change Staff = "RH" }
lhStaff = { \change Staff = "LH" }
sb = {
\once \set subdivideBeams = ##t
\once \set beatLength = #(ly:make-moment 1 8)
}
staffPiano = \new PianoStaff {
\set PianoStaff.midiInstrument = #"acoustic grand"
\set PianoStaff.instrumentName = #"Piano "
<<
\context Staff = "RH" { % Right hand
\time 3/4
\clef treble
\key c \major
\relative c'' {
s8.
\times 2/3 { \lhStaff f,,,32 g \rhStaff \clef bass \stemDown fis }
\sb
\stemNeutral \override TupletBracket #'bracket-visibility = ##f
\times 4/6 { \stemDown gis[ dis' gis, fis \lhStaff \stemUp f! g! }
\rhStaff \stemDown ais
fis'16.]~
\stemUp fis4~ \stemNeutral |
}
}
\context Staff = "LH" { % Left hand
\time 3/4
\clef bass
\key c \major
\relative c {
<<
{
\override TupletBracket #'bracket-visibility = ##f
r8. s16 s4
\rhStaff \stemNeutral \sb \times 2/3 { c32-> \lhStaff c, d }
\rhStaff cis'16
\times 2/3 { dis32 \lhStaff e, f }
\rhStaff e'16 \lhStaff |
}
\\
{
r32 e,,8..~-- e4 s4 |
}
>>
}
}
>>
}
\score {
\staffPiano
}
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Re: \context for named Staff
Thanks, Mark, I'll try this out and let you know how it works. -Jonathan --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Mark Polesky wrote: > From: Mark Polesky > Subject: Re: \context for named Staff > To: "Mark Polesky" , "Jonathan Wilkes" > , lilypond-user@gnu.org > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 10:25 PM > > Mark Polesky wrote: > > > #(define (inverse-magstep x) > > (* 6 (/ (log x) (log 2 > > Just noticed the scheme procedure > "magnification->font-size" already > defined in font.scm... Use that and get rid of my > "inverse-magstep". > > - Mark > > > > > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: \context for named Staff
Hi James,
Well, there would be two. Actually, if it's possible, I would like
to have three scores:
1) Flute score, with a small PianoStaff
2) Piano score, with a small flute staff
3) Study score, with both staves the same size (I probably wouldn't do
this one if working in Finale, but if I don't have to worry about spacing
in Lilypond then what the heck... :)
I'm also thinking in general if there's a piano score, the other
instruments should have small staves. I initially thought this was one of
the reasons for having a layout block, but I just started utilizing it so
maybe I'm wrong.
-Jonathan
--- On Fri, 8/7/09, James E. Bailey wrote:
> From: James E. Bailey
> Subject: Re: \context for named Staff
> To: "Jonathan Wilkes"
> Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 9:40 PM
> If it's just for the piano
> score, I would just make that change in the piano score
> \new Staff \with { resize }. Is there more than one
> score that needs this adjustment?
>
>
> On 07.08.2009, at 21:18, Jonathan Wilkes
> wrote:
>
> Hello
> again,
> I'm trying to resize one staff in a flute/piano
> duet, and I can't figure
> out the "right" way to do it. Here's the
> format I tried:
> \layout
> { \context {
> \Staff = "staffFlute" % stuff
> to resize this particular staff }}
> But
> I guess it's not possible to refer to a specific
> instance of a Staff in
> the layout block (at least I couldn't find any reference
> to doing this). If
> this is true, then how do you do staff size changes- like
> making the flute
> staff smaller for the piano score- without doing everything
> manually for
> each score/part?
> -Jonathan
>
>
>
>
> ___lilypond-user
> mailing
> listlilypond-u...@gnu.orghttp://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
> James
> E. Bailey
>
>
>
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\context for named Staff
Hello again,
I'm trying to resize one staff in a flute/piano duet, and I can't
figure out the "right" way to do it. Here's the format I tried:
\layout {
\context { \Staff = "staffFlute"
% stuff to resize this particular staff
}
}
But I guess it's not possible to refer to a specific instance of a Staff
in the layout block (at least I couldn't find any reference to doing this).
If this is true, then how do you do staff size changes- like making the
flute staff smaller for the piano score- without doing everything manually
for each score/part?
-Jonathan
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Re: TextSpanner Line Padding
--- On Thu, 8/6/09, Kieren MacMillan wrote: > From: Kieren MacMillan > Subject: Re: TextSpanner Line Padding > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" > Cc: "David Stocker" , lilypond-user@gnu.org > Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 6:06 AM > Hi Jonathan, > > > One more question: I'm also trying to use an "a > tempo" > > at the end (right) of the spanner. If I use a > hard space there, it > > won't align properly with the note it is attached to. > > Any advice on that would be appreciated. > > Can you use a hard space and then compensate by increasing > the bound padding by the width of a space? > > Cheers, > Kieren. Hi Kieren, Is bound padding #'(bound-details right padding) or #'bound-padding? It seems like some of the properties are missing in the IR. The notation reference explains some properties for spanners (like line breaking properties) that I don't see for TextSpanner- or any of the related interfaces- in the IR. -Jonathan ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
