Re: A new Scheme tutorial (Jean Abou Samra)

[Peter Toye]

-
Saturday, July 23, 2022, 8:56:57 PM, Jean Abou Samra wrote:

> Thanks a lot Peter and others (privately) for your suggestions.
> Sorry for the very late reply, I've been distracted by other
> things. Your comments are most appreciated.


> Le 13/07/2022 à 18:15, Peter Toye a écrit :
>> This looks great! Just what I'd needed a couple of years back when I > was 
>> still programming.
>> I've only just started with it, but there are a few niggling comments > 
>> about the English version. I've only got to page 2 (getting started) > so 
>> far.
>>   * On my browser (Firefox in Windows) the 'v. latest' is too close to
>>     the bottom of the main frame, and I can't click on the
>>     'previous/next/index' without very careful manipulation of the
>>     slider. Can it be moved up a cm or so?


> This is a bit tricky because I don't know how to test it
> locally without uploading on Readthedocs, and I'm bad at
> CSS ...
... so am I.

>>   * On page 1 (Why Scheme?) it's slightly better English to say 'There
>>     is no single implementation of Scheme'
>>   * On page 2 (Getting started) the comment about testing under
>>     Windows is not translated into English! I suggest 'I am unable to
>>     test these commands under Windows. If they do not work, write to
>>     the list.'
>>   * Again on page 2, the commands don't work! You forgot to add the
>>     'lilypond'.
>>     C:\Program Files (x86)\LilyPond\usr\bin>lilypond
>>     scheme-sandbox works fine on my machine.
>>   * On page 2 'Literals' the comment about decimal numbers isn't
>>     translated. I'm not sure about the best translation of 'nombres
>>     décimaux'. Personally I'd use 'floating-point numbers' on the
>>     grounds that all numbers, including integers, are decimal.

> Done.


>>   * The comment 'and a few others' about the characters allowed in
>>     variable names is rather annoying. How does a user know what to
>>     expect if they use a forbidden character? A list would be really
>>     useful.


> Um. The precise rules for valid identifiers are described
> as a formal grammar on pages 12 and 13 of R6RS
> <http://www.r6rs.org/final/r6rs.pdf>
> (see the  production). I'll try to put
> a list of a few characters that are valid and which
> are useful to know about, like ? and ! because they
> occur regularly at the end of function names (for
> predicates and side-effecting functions), but I'd
> rather not explain the full rules, as they are quite
> complex ...
Ouch! I see what you mean. And this is meant to be simplified? But the problem 
really is that if a user tries to use an identifier with an illegal syntax, how 
do they know? This is rather like those really annoying websites which ask you 
to choose a password, and then tell you that it's illegal without telling you 
why.
 
> Best,
> Jean
All the best,
 
Peter

Re: A new Scheme tutorial (Jean Abou Samra)

[Peter Toye]

This looks great! Just what I'd needed a couple of years back when I was still 
programming.
 
I've only just started with it, but there are a few niggling comments about the 
English version. I've only got to page 2 (getting started) so far.
* On my browser (Firefox in Windows) the 'v. latest' is too close to the bottom 
of the main frame, and I can't click on the 'previous/next/index' without very 
careful manipulation of the slider. Can it be moved up a cm or so?
* On page 1 (Why Scheme?) it's slightly better English to say 'There is no 
single implementation of Scheme'
* On page 2 (Getting started) the comment about testing under Windows is not 
translated into English! I suggest 'I am unable to test these commands under 
Windows. If they do not work, write to the list.'
* Again on page 2, the commands don't work! You forgot to add the 'lilypond'.
C:\Program Files (x86)\LilyPond\usr\bin>lilypond scheme-sandbox works fine on 
my machine.
* On page 2 'Literals' the comment about decimal numbers isn't translated. I'm 
not sure about the best translation of 'nombres décimaux'. Personally I'd use 
'floating-point numbers' on the grounds that all numbers, including integers, 
are decimal.
* The comment 'and a few others' about the characters allowed in variable names 
is rather annoying. How does a user know what to expect if they use a forbidden 
character? A list would be really useful.
When I read further down I may have more comments
 
Best regards,

Petermailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Piano pedalling in (conductor) scores

[Peter Toye]

Werner,

:-)>
 
The problem with ligatures is that they have 3 meanings - ties, 
bowing/breathing marks and phrasing marks. And sometimes a note will have all 
three. But this is getting a bit off-topic.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, May 31, 2022, 7:33:59 AM, Werner LEMBERG wrote:


>> Well, just look at a Mahler score.  He was one of the great
>> conductors, and the strings are full of bowing marks.  How many of
>> them are followed by conductors these days I don't know.

> Well, just look at a Richard Strauss score :-)  His scores are full of
> legatos in the strings which are definitely *not* meant to be executed
> as bowing instructions.

> Note also that until the beginning of the 20th century the players in
> a string group of an orchestra did not try at all to have the same
> bowing.  In scores of that time, notated bowing marks are intended as
> a special sound effect (for example, a sequence of down-bow-only
> notes).


>     Werner

Re: Piano pedalling in (conductor) scores

[Peter Toye]

Well, just look at a Mahler score. He was one of the great conductors, and the 
strings are full of bowing marks. How many of them are followed by conductors 
these days I don't know.
 
Fortunately for this discussion he didn't use the piano much, but in the 8th 
symphony at one point he just marks "Pedal" but no details as to exactly where 
he wants it.
 
Stravinsky's Oedipus rex has some very odd pedal markings in the score but I've 
no idea what the orchestral part says.


Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Monday, May 30, 2022, 5:00:33 PM, lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org wrote:

> Send lilypond-user mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:

>    1. Re: Piano pedalling in (conductor) scores (Kieren MacMillan)
>    2. Re: Piano pedalling in (conductor) scores (Kieren MacMillan)
>    3. Re: Piano pedalling in (conductor) scores (Peter Toye)
>    4. Re: Piano pedalling in (conductor) scores (Simon Bailey)


> --

> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 30 May 2022 09:42:41 -0400
> From: Kieren MacMillan 
> To: David Kastrup 
> Cc: Simon Bailey , Lilypond-User Mailing List
>         
> Subject: Re: Piano pedalling in (conductor) scores
> Message-ID:
>         <61d9da87-b56b-4a94-925c-c62d349dc...@kierenmacmillan.info>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8

> Hi David,

>> It's a matter of efficiency for sections expected to sightread large
>> parts of their material to work with performance-ready information even
>> if it results from arbitrary choices.

> Literally every orchestra and ensemble I’ve ever worked with as composer or 
> arranger — which now numbers in the hundreds — has specifically requested 
> that no bowings be in the part(s). They always have their own concermaster 
> fill in *their* preferred bowings, and then the librarian copies parts for 
> the players. (Yes, this means different orchestras have performed different 
> bowings in the same piece!)

> As far as I can tell, that’s the standard in the classical music world. 
> 

> Cheers,
> Kieren.


> --

> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 30 May 2022 09:59:18 -0400
> From: Kieren MacMillan 
> To: Kira Garvie 
> Cc: David Kastrup , Lilypond-User Mailing List
>         , Simon Bailey 
> Subject: Re: Piano pedalling in (conductor) scores
> Message-ID:
>         
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8

> Hi Kira,

>> If it’s for a whole section, either it’s the composer or the orchestra 
>> librarian. Who cares of the conductor changes it, that’s their choice. 
>>  If it’s for a single player like a keyboardist, I would be inclined to 
>> leave more open to the player - I am a keyboardist with relatively small 
>> hands, and many times I physically can’t do the fingerings the composer puts 
>> in, and so printed fingerings do clutter the score when I have to just cross 
>> them out. Also, pedaling may change based on the acoustics of the room… 

> Yep. Over-marking is a hallmark of 20th Century [mostly academic, 
> ivory-tower] thinking. The norm nowadays is to reduce markings to the bare 
> minimum, and actually trust the musicians to… you know… make music. ;)

> Really, this is just the pendulum swinging back to pre-Romantic practice, 
> which [rightly] entrusted a huge amount of performative latitude and trust to 
> the performer, instead of dictating every dot and dash and dot-dash [etc.] 
> “from on high”.

> Cheers,
> Kieren.


> --

> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 30 May 2022 15:08:27 +0100
> From: Peter Toye 
> To: lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org, lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Piano pedalling in (conductor) scores
> Message-ID: <84572201.20220530150...@ptoye.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> Lilypond-user-request,


> Best regards,

> Peter
> mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
> www.ptoye.com

> -
> Monday, May 30, 2022, 2:40:08 PM, lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org wrote:

>> Message: 4
>> Date: Mon, 30 May 2022 15:07:48 +0200
>> From: David Kastrup 
>> To: Kieren MacMillan 
>> Cc: Simon Bailey ,  Lilypond-User Mailing 

Re: Piano pedalling in (conductor) scores

[Peter Toye]

Lilypond-user-request,


Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Monday, May 30, 2022, 2:40:08 PM, lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org wrote:

> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 30 May 2022 15:07:48 +0200
> From: David Kastrup 
> To: Kieren MacMillan 
> Cc: Simon Bailey ,  Lilypond-User Mailing List
>         
> Subject: Re: Piano pedalling in (conductor) scores
> Message-ID: <87sforuq1n@fencepost.gnu.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

> Kieren MacMillan  writes:

>> Hi Simon,

>>> when preparing a conductor's score that also includes a piano (as an
>>> ensemble, not soloist) part, do you also include the pedalling
>>> information for the piano?
>> IMO, a conductor’s score should contain essentially all the
>> information in the performers’ parts, although possibly in a slightly
>> different presentation (e.g., different clef, combined staves,
>> shorthand, etc.)

> I disagree.  There is no point in cluttering the conductor's part with
> stuff like fingerings (only relevant to the player) and bowing
> directions (section leader material).

>>> How useful is that information for a conductor?

>> Very! For example, let’s say the piano part says “senza ped.” and the
>> conductor’s score has no marking — the conductor would likely assume
>> the part would be played with pedal (ad lib.), and there might be
>> confusion in rehearsal when the conductor hears no pedal.

> Pedalling is musically relevant to some degree (but often applied by the
> player at will) but it really depends on whether we are talking about
> information mandated by the composer or editorial suggestions.  If the
> latter, there seems little point in giving the conductor the information
> necessary to enforce the editor's rather than the composer's vision of
> execution.



I agree with Kieren here. If the conductor doesn't know what the performer 
sees, they're going to have to stop the rehearsal to clear it up. Norman del 
Mar mentions this about the harmonium part of Strauss's 'Ariadne auf Naxos' 
which apparently contains copious detailed instructions about what stops to use 
where, all of which is missing from the score.

Re:piano sustain pedal between notes

[Peter Toye]

Yes, it's very common. The way that I use is to create a separate dynamics 
staff for the pedal indication and use silent notes to position the pedals 
exactly where you want them.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Sunday, May 22, 2022, 2:14:24 PM, lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org wrote:
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 22 May 2022 19:41:10 +0900
> From: Soo Lee 
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Subject: piano sustain pedal between notes
> Message-ID:
>         
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> Hi

> Is it possible to put a sustain pedal off between notes? It is common to
> have a pedal between notes. Thank you!

> Best,
> Soo
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
> *

When the previous typesetter states "with pedal", what exactly does this mean?

[Peter Toye]

Ken,
 
'With pedal' means that the composer wants you to use the pedal at your 
discretion. Not much help to MIDI I'm afraid.
 
I suggest you play through the piece, noting what sounds good and put explicit 
pedal markings in, but this won't help the next performer who may  have 
completely different ideas. Very few composers of the Classical and Romantic 
eras use explicit pedal markings unless they want a particular effect. 
 
Regards,

Petermailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Feedback wanted: syntax highlighting in the LilyPond documentation

[Peter Toye]

Jean,
 
There are various types of colour-blindness - red-green is the most common. I 
did a quick Google on "design for colour-blind" and got several useful hits, 
mostly for web designers. The basic message is "don't rely on colour to get a 
message across", which isn't much help to you.
 
One way round this might be to allow the user to select colours for the 
different distinguishable syntax elements (I think this has already been 
suggested somewhere in this thread). And not to make it too complicated. I 
personally get a bit fed up with Frescobaldi's colours but being 
normally-sighted I can live with it.


Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Sunday, January 2, 2022, 5:01:11 PM, lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org wrote:

> Send lilypond-user mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:

>    1. Re: Feedback wanted: syntax highlighting in the LilyPond
>       documentation (Wols Lists)
>    2. Re: Feedback wanted: syntax highlighting in the LilyPond
>       documentation (Jean Abou Samra)


> --

> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 16:24:39 +
> From: Wols Lists 
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Feedback wanted: syntax highlighting in the LilyPond
>         documentation
> Message-ID: <0578c098-ae48-ac16-f8ae-79ef71076...@youngman.org.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

> On 02/01/2022 09:34, Marc Lanoisel?e via LilyPond user discussion wrote:
>> It will be necessary to keep an uncolored version for men (in principle 
>> women do not have this problem) who do not see well certain colors.

> In principle (and practice) women DO suffer this problem. It's caused by 
> a defective X chromosome so, like haemophilia, the majority of sufferers 
> are men. If however a colour-blind man marries a carrier woman, any 
> daughter runs a 50-50 risk of being colour-blind.

> Cheers,
> Wol



> --

> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 17:32:32 +0100
> From: Jean Abou Samra 
> To: Knute Snortum 
> Cc: Lilypond-User Mailing List 
> Subject: Re: Feedback wanted: syntax highlighting in the LilyPond
>         documentation
> Message-ID: <5ceaea96-eda8-45bb-82bf-896733085...@abou-samra.fr>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

> Le 02/01/2022 ? 17:01, Knute Snortum a ?crit?:
>> On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 7:10 AM Jean Abou Samra  wrote:
>> ...
>>> [Marc]
 It will be necessary to keep an uncolored version for men (in
 principle women do not have this problem) who do not see well certain
 colors.
>>> This is taken care of -- the colors have been
>>> chosen to have enough contrast to the white
>>> background to be readable even for those
>>> with impaired vision. Since I am not such a
>>> person, I have been checking the scheme against
>>> WCAG recommendations. The color with least
>>> contrast has 6.15, which is quite a bit
>>> above the WCAG AA level of 4.5. This means that
>>> even someone not discerning colors at all
>>> can read such highlighted code.
>> I am colorblind (which BTW means that it's hard to distinguish certain
>> colors, not that everything is gray).


> Sorry if I gave a wrong impression. I didn't
> mean that everything actually looked gray, just
> that it was the extreme imaginary case encompassing
> all types of colorblindness (I think there are
> different ones, right?).


>> I can't see a difference
>> between the blue and the purple, but this doesn't cause a problem for
>> me -- I just miss some of the highlighting, which is unavoidable.  The
>> bold terms jump out at me, but the coloration seems reasonable.  All
>> in all, the scheme seems reasonable to me.


> Thanks for the input! That's reassuring.

> Best regards,
> Jean




> --

> Subject: Digest Footer

> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


> --

> End of lilypond-user Digest, Vol 230, Issue 10
> **

Re: Export from LilyPond to MusicXML (Thomas Morley)

[Peter Toye]

Thanks very much Harm, but as I no longer need it, I shan't go ahead. If I need 
it later I'll resurrect this thread.
 
The reason I like Jan-Peter's approach is that it appears to abstract the music 
from the details of presentation. But I've not looked into it much. 


Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Thursday, October 7, 2021, 10:46:44 AM, Thomas Morley wrote:

> Am Do., 7. Okt. 2021 um 11:30 Uhr schrieb Peter Toye :


>> The potential need has gone away now - my Sibelius user has told me that he 
>> uses ScoreMuse to export the PDF into a suitable format for Sibelius. Looks 
>> to me like an expensive way of doing it, but if he can afford Sibelius he 
>> can probably afford ScoreMuse as well.

>> I agree that exchanging music information between different engravers is an 
>> extremely complex problem and I don't underestimate the difficulty.

>> I tried Jan-Peter's code on Github, but it seems to be broken on recent 
>> versions of LilyPond. I'm told it works on 19.0  but I don't have that 
>> version any more. And I don't have a contact for him to ask - is he on this 
>> mailing list?

> Not sure Jan-Peter's approach is the best method ...
> Anyway, applying the following diff makes it work with recent versions
> (although you'll get a bunch of messages):

> ~/openlilylib/lilypond-export (master)$ git diff
> diff --git a/api.scm b/api.scm
> index 8307dc5..3bfa69a 100644
> --- a/api.scm
> +++ b/api.scm
> @@ -275,8 +275,8 @@
>           (let ((musicstep (ly:context-property context ctprop::export-step))
>                 (staff-id (ly:context-property context ctprop::staff-id))
>                 (voice-id (ly:context-property context ctprop::voice-id)))
> -           (ly:message "stem info ~A" (map car (ly:grob-properties grob)))
> -           (tree-set! musicstep `(,staff-id ,voice-id stem dir)
> (ly:grob-properties grob)) ;(ly:stem::calc-direction grob))
> +           (ly:message "stem info ~A" (map car
> (ly:grob-basic-properties grob)))
> +           (tree-set! musicstep `(,staff-id ,voice-id stem dir)
> (ly:grob-basic-properties grob)) ;(ly:stem::calc-direction grob))
>             ))
>          )


> Cheers,
>   Harm

Re: Export from LilyPond to MusicXML (Thomas Morley)

[Peter Toye]

Hello Jan-Peter,
 
As I wrote, my personal immediate need has now gone away.
 
Everyone seems to agree that some form of exchange mechanism between music 
engravers is needed, but there are many different exchange formats and with 
such a complex subject writing an exporter is a really heavy task. I can only 
admire and thank you for your work and hope it can continue. Let's hope that it 
can be done without too many people pulling in different directions. I wish I 
were able to help.


Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-

> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2021 11:49:29 +0200
> From: Jan-Peter Voigt 
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Export from LilyPond to MusicXML (Thomas Morley)
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

> Hello Peter,

> yes, I still receive the messages from the list, but since I have
> changed jobs, my commitment to Lilypond has fallen behind a bit.
> But I hope to curate and update my code soon so that it can serve as a
> starting point for further development. Of course, Jacque's work should
> not be lost sight of, as native support would be nice. But maybe the
> scheme-engraver based solution can push the issue a bit.
> This topic has been on my mind for quite some time. Since Lilypond does
> not offer XML export, its use is problematic in many areas. If I want to
> offer something to a publisher, I can't get anywhere with Lilypond in
> most cases. If I want to archive the notes in a structured way, I can
> come up with 1001 solutions in Scheme that fill a database. But if I
> have curated data in MEI format (or MusicXML), I can systematically feed
> a database (e.g. eXist) with it and provide a REST API afterwards to
> build fancy Webapps.

> Best regards,

> Jan-Peter



> Am 07.10.21 um 11:30 schrieb Peter Toye:

>> The potential need has gone away now - my Sibelius user has told me that
>> he uses ScoreMuse to export the PDF into a suitable format for Sibelius.
>> Looks to me like an expensive way of doing it, but if he can afford
>> Sibelius he can probably afford ScoreMuse as well.

>>  

>> I agree that exchanging music information between different engravers is
>> an extremely complex problem and I don't underestimate the difficulty.

>>  

>> I tried Jan-Peter's code on Github, but it seems to be broken on recent
>> versions of LilyPond. I'm told it works on 19.0  but I don't have
>> that version any more. And I don't have a contact for him to ask - is he
>> on this mailing list?

>> Best regards,

>> Peter

>> mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com <mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com>

>> www.ptoye.com <https://www.ptoye.com>

>> -

>> Wednesday, October 6, 2021, 8:05:12 PM, Jean Abou Samra wrote:

>>     Le 05/10/2021 à 13:08, Peter Toye a écrit :

>>         Sorry - edited subject to get the linking correct

>>          Harm,

>>         
>> https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/42315/lilypond-to-musicxml-to-sibelius#73706
>>         
>> <https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/42315/lilypond-to-musicxml-to-sibelius#73706>
>>  >
>>         
>> <https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/42315/lilypond-to-musicxml-to-sibelius#73706
>>         
>> <https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/42315/lilypond-to-musicxml-to-sibelius#73706>>
>>  has
>>         > a discussion about this as well. I've started looking at >
>>         the OpenLilyLib solution at the bottom of the thread but it
>>         doesn't > work on later versions of LilyPond.

>>         It would seem to me that using LP's parsing mechanisms is the
>>         right > way to go about it, and I'd offer to help if my health
>>         allowed. Is > there anyone on this mailing list who knows about it?

>>     About the parsing? Certainly, but the potentiel
>>     project spans many different areas of LilyPond.
>>     And he design space is vast.

>>     With Jacques Menu, we some had private discussions
>>     about this. It may be feasible to implement XML export
>>     by utilizing Jacque's musicformats library (see
>>     his post). So far I only have rough ideas about
>>     the LilyPond part, and it is not my current priority.

>>     I think the most advanced solution so far is Jan-Peter's
>>     https://github.com/openlilylib/lilypond-export
>>     <https://github.com/openlilylib/lilypond-export>
>>     https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2018-10/msg00068.html
>>     <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2018-10/msg00068.html>
>>     (CCing him). One could start off from that.

>>         It's something I will probably need soon.

>>     By do means do try to help out, but don't
>>     hold your breathe for it. It is a large
>>     endeavor.

>>     Best,
>>     Jean




> --

Re: Export from LilyPond to MusicXML (Thomas Morley)

[Peter Toye]

The potential need has gone away now - my Sibelius user has told me that he 
uses ScoreMuse to export the PDF into a suitable format for Sibelius. Looks to 
me like an expensive way of doing it, but if he can afford Sibelius he can 
probably afford ScoreMuse as well.
 
I agree that exchanging music information between different engravers is an 
extremely complex problem and I don't underestimate the difficulty.
 
I tried Jan-Peter's code on Github, but it seems to be broken on recent 
versions of LilyPond. I'm told it works on 19.0  but I don't have that version 
any more. And I don't have a contact for him to ask - is he on this mailing 
list?

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Wednesday, October 6, 2021, 8:05:12 PM, Jean Abou Samra wrote:

> Le 05/10/2021 à 13:08, Peter Toye a écrit :


>> Sorry - edited subject to get the linking correct

>>  Harm,

>> https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/42315/lilypond-to-musicxml-to-sibelius#73706
>>  > 
>> <https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/42315/lilypond-to-musicxml-to-sibelius#73706>
>>  has > a discussion about this as well. I've started looking at > the 
>> OpenLilyLib solution at the bottom of the thread but it doesn't > work on 
>> later versions of LilyPond.

>> It would seem to me that using LP's parsing mechanisms is the right > way to 
>> go about it, and I'd offer to help if my health allowed. Is > there anyone 
>> on this mailing list who knows about it?


> About the parsing? Certainly, but the potentiel
> project spans many different areas of LilyPond.
> And he design space is vast.

> With Jacques Menu, we some had private discussions
> about this. It may be feasible to implement XML export
> by utilizing Jacque's musicformats library (see
> his post). So far I only have rough ideas about
> the LilyPond part, and it is not my current priority.

> I think the most advanced solution so far is Jan-Peter's
> https://github.com/openlilylib/lilypond-export
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2018-10/msg00068.html
> (CCing him). One could start off from that.

>> It's something I will probably need soon.


> By do means do try to help out, but don't
> hold your breathe for it. It is a large
> endeavor.

> Best,
> Jean

Re: Export from LilyPond to MusicXML (Thomas Morley)

[Peter Toye]

Agreed, but it's possible that someone here might know more about this project 
and now it's getting on.


Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, October 5, 2021, 12:53:43 PM, m.tarensk...@kpnmail.nl wrote:

> lilypond-to-musicxml export is a frequentlly asked, but easier said than 
> done, feature request, that pops up from time to time. And everytime it 
> doesn't reach a point beyond discussions and experimental or quite incomplete 
> implementations. Apparently both MusicXML and LilyPond are complex beasts - I 
> am not complaining.

> MT



> Verzonden vanaf mijn Huawei mobiele telefoon

Re: Export from LilyPond to MusicXML (Thomas Morley)

[Peter Toye]

Sorry - edited subject to get the linking correct
 
 Harm,
 
 
https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/42315/lilypond-to-musicxml-to-sibelius#73706
 has a discussion about this as well. I've started looking at the OpenLilyLib 
solution at the bottom of the thread but it doesn't work on later versions of 
LilyPond.
 
It would seem to me that using LP's parsing mechanisms is the right way to go 
about it, and I'd offer to help if my health allowed. Is there anyone on this 
mailing list who knows about it? It's something I will probably need soon.


Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, September 28, 2021, 6:58:40 AM, lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org wrote:


> --

> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 00:53:16 +0200
> From: Thomas Morley 
> To: Jacques Menu 
> Cc: "lilypond-user Mailing List (lilypond-user@gnu.org)"
>         , Dominique Fober 
> Subject: Re: Export from LilyPond to MusicXML
> Message-ID:
>         
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

> Hi Jacques,

> Am Mo., 27. Sept. 2021 um 00:48 Uhr schrieb Jacques Menu
> :


>> Hello folks,

>> The recent posts on this subject show there is interest in the matter. Sorry 
>> for the length of this one...

> Tbh, most of the mor detailed stuff is way over my head..


>> My work was initially homed by Grame’s libmusicxml2 library as an example of 
>> what it could be used for, in the lilypond branch at 
>> https://github.com/grame-cncm/libmusicxml/tree/lilypond.

>> Dom Fober, the author and maintainer of libmusicxml2, and I decided some 
>> time ago to separate things for practical reasons, and I now push to the 
>> GitHub repository I created at https://github.com/jacques-menu/musicformats.

> Good to know.

>> I’m currenly finalizing version 1.0.0, which explains why the test and 
>> master branches are not up to date - only the dev branch is currently.


>> The musicformats library is structured along the lines shown at page 16 in 
>> https://github.com/jacques-menu/musicformats/blob/dev/doc/maintainersGuideToMusicFormats/maintainersGuideToMusicformats.pdf
>>  (the users’s guide is not yet ‘usable’, sorry).

>> The central component of musicformats is MSR (Music Score Representation), 
>> from which various formats can be obtained.

>> In this picture, we see that we could create MusicXML output from within the 
>> LilyPond implementation going along the LilyPond - LPSR - MSR - MXSR  - 
>> MusicMXL path. The missing part would be the creation of an LPSR (LilyPond 
>> Score Representation), the others already exist.

>> As an example, the LPSR representation and LilyPond output produced by:

>> xml2ly basic/HelloWorld.xml -display-lpsr > LPSR_contents.txt 2>&1

>> are in the attached LPSR_contents.txt file.

>> The resulting score is:

>> Jean and I have had discussions as to how the export to MusicXML could be 
>> tackled on the LilyPond side, but nothing concrete yet. Some of the 
>> information needed is readily accessible inside LilyPond, but grabbing the 
>> remaining part is not easy.

>> The musicformats repository contains examples using the library to create 
>> scores in C++ applications, among them:

>> jacquesmenu@macmini: ~/musicformats-git-dev/files/musicxml > 
>> Mikrokosmos3Wandering -a
>> What Mikrokosmos3Wandering does:

>>     This multi-pass generator creates a textual representation
>>     of Zoltán Kodály's Mikrokosmos III Wandering score.
>>     It performs various passes depending on the output generated.

>>     Other passes are performed according to the options, such as
>>     displaying views of the internal data or printing a summary of the score.

>>     The activity log and warning/error messages go to standard error.

>> jacquesmenu@macmini: ~/musicformats-git-dev/files/musicxml > 
>> Mikrokosmos3Wandering -apropos generate
>> --- Help for atom "generate" in subgroup "Generated output"
>>     -generate, -gen GENERATED_OUTPUT_KIND
>>           Generate GENERATED_OUTPUT_KIND code to the output.
>>             The 5 generated output kinds available are:
>>             braille, guido, lilypond, midi and musicxml.
>>             The default is 'LilyPond output'.

>> (midi output is actually not yet available, though)

>> For example, one can run:

>> jacquesmenu@macmini: ~/musicformats-git-dev/files/musicxml > 
>> Mikrokosmos3Wandering -generate  musicxml  -o Mikrokosmos3Wandering.xml 
>> -trace=passes

>> %--
>>   Pass 1: Creating the MSR score with the functions
>> %--
>> *** MusicXML warning *** :91: The staffMeasuresSlicesSequence of staff 
>> "Part_OnlyPart_Staff_One" is null
>> *** MusicXML warning *** :91: The staffMeasuresSlicesSequence of staff 
>> "Part_OnlyPart_Staff_Two" is null

>> %--
>>   Pass 2: Convert the MSR score into a second MSR
>> 

Re: lilypond-user Digest, Vol 226, Issue 139

[Peter Toye]

 Harm,
 
 
https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/42315/lilypond-to-musicxml-to-sibelius#73706
 has a discussion about this as well. I've started looking at the OpenLilyLib 
solution at the bottom of the thread but it doesn't work on later versions of 
LilyPond.
 
It would seem to me that using LP's parsing mechanisms is the right way to go 
about it, and I'd offer to help if my health allowed. Is there anyone on this 
mailing list who knows about it? It's something I will probably need soon.


Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, September 28, 2021, 6:58:40 AM, lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org wrote:


> --

> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 00:53:16 +0200
> From: Thomas Morley 
> To: Jacques Menu 
> Cc: "lilypond-user Mailing List (lilypond-user@gnu.org)"
>         , Dominique Fober 
> Subject: Re: Export from LilyPond to MusicXML
> Message-ID:
>         
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

> Hi Jacques,

> Am Mo., 27. Sept. 2021 um 00:48 Uhr schrieb Jacques Menu
> :


>> Hello folks,

>> The recent posts on this subject show there is interest in the matter. Sorry 
>> for the length of this one...

> Tbh, most of the mor detailed stuff is way over my head..


>> My work was initially homed by Grame’s libmusicxml2 library as an example of 
>> what it could be used for, in the lilypond branch at 
>> https://github.com/grame-cncm/libmusicxml/tree/lilypond.

>> Dom Fober, the author and maintainer of libmusicxml2, and I decided some 
>> time ago to separate things for practical reasons, and I now push to the 
>> GitHub repository I created at https://github.com/jacques-menu/musicformats.

> Good to know.

>> I’m currenly finalizing version 1.0.0, which explains why the test and 
>> master branches are not up to date - only the dev branch is currently.


>> The musicformats library is structured along the lines shown at page 16 in 
>> https://github.com/jacques-menu/musicformats/blob/dev/doc/maintainersGuideToMusicFormats/maintainersGuideToMusicformats.pdf
>>  (the users’s guide is not yet ‘usable’, sorry).

>> The central component of musicformats is MSR (Music Score Representation), 
>> from which various formats can be obtained.

>> In this picture, we see that we could create MusicXML output from within the 
>> LilyPond implementation going along the LilyPond - LPSR - MSR - MXSR  - 
>> MusicMXL path. The missing part would be the creation of an LPSR (LilyPond 
>> Score Representation), the others already exist.

>> As an example, the LPSR representation and LilyPond output produced by:

>> xml2ly basic/HelloWorld.xml -display-lpsr > LPSR_contents.txt 2>&1

>> are in the attached LPSR_contents.txt file.

>> The resulting score is:

>> Jean and I have had discussions as to how the export to MusicXML could be 
>> tackled on the LilyPond side, but nothing concrete yet. Some of the 
>> information needed is readily accessible inside LilyPond, but grabbing the 
>> remaining part is not easy.

>> The musicformats repository contains examples using the library to create 
>> scores in C++ applications, among them:

>> jacquesmenu@macmini: ~/musicformats-git-dev/files/musicxml > 
>> Mikrokosmos3Wandering -a
>> What Mikrokosmos3Wandering does:

>>     This multi-pass generator creates a textual representation
>>     of Zoltán Kodály's Mikrokosmos III Wandering score.
>>     It performs various passes depending on the output generated.

>>     Other passes are performed according to the options, such as
>>     displaying views of the internal data or printing a summary of the score.

>>     The activity log and warning/error messages go to standard error.

>> jacquesmenu@macmini: ~/musicformats-git-dev/files/musicxml > 
>> Mikrokosmos3Wandering -apropos generate
>> --- Help for atom "generate" in subgroup "Generated output"
>>     -generate, -gen GENERATED_OUTPUT_KIND
>>           Generate GENERATED_OUTPUT_KIND code to the output.
>>             The 5 generated output kinds available are:
>>             braille, guido, lilypond, midi and musicxml.
>>             The default is 'LilyPond output'.

>> (midi output is actually not yet available, though)

>> For example, one can run:

>> jacquesmenu@macmini: ~/musicformats-git-dev/files/musicxml > 
>> Mikrokosmos3Wandering -generate  musicxml  -o Mikrokosmos3Wandering.xml 
>> -trace=passes

>> %--
>>   Pass 1: Creating the MSR score with the functions
>> %--
>> *** MusicXML warning *** :91: The staffMeasuresSlicesSequence of staff 
>> "Part_OnlyPart_Staff_One" is null
>> *** MusicXML warning *** :91: The staffMeasuresSlicesSequence of staff 
>> "Part_OnlyPart_Staff_Two" is null

>> %--
>>   Pass 2: Convert the MSR score into a second MSR
>> 

Re: CHanging the = sign in a metronome mark

[Peter Toye]

Paul,


Thanks - I hadn't realised this. Now I see it's in NR.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, September 28, 2021, 10:18:20 AM, Paul Hodges wrote:

> On 28/09/2021 10:02:24, "Peter Toye"  wrote:

>> I want to change the "=" to "~" or "ca." in a metronome mark but I can't see 
>> how to do it. There's a 'stencil' property but I assume that refers to the 
>> entire MM and not the equals sign. Can someone please help?

> You can use arbitrary markup in a \tempo directive.  For instance, in my 
> current work I have this (because I wanted no brackets and a smaller note 
> symbol):

>   \tempo \markup {\bold "Leggero "
>                   \teeny \general-align #Y #DOWN \note {4.} #1
>                   \medium "= 126"}

> Change the literal = to ~ and you're there.

> Paul

CHanging the = sign in a metronome mark

[Peter Toye]

I want to change the "=" to "~" or "ca." in a metronome mark but I can't see 
how to do it. There's a 'stencil' property but I assume that refers to the 
entire MM and not the equals sign. Can someone please help?
 
Thanks in advance

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Extending the width of a glissando

[Peter Toye]

Hello Lukas-Fabian,


Thanks again. I was looking at the wrong place in the documentation. There's a 
fine line to be drawn between tweaking and changing a default when you only 
want to do it once.
 
One thing puzzles me about the documentation when it comes to placement - it 
continually refers to the 'reference point' for an object.  I sort of 
understand what it means, but it doesn't seem to be defined anywhere. For 
instance - to rotate a hairpin you have to specify the co-ordinates of the 
centre of rotation relative to its reference point. But where is the reference 
point for a hairpin? The start, the middle, the end? (The phrase is also used 
in other contests, such as octave placement in NR section 1.1.1, to add to the 
confusion).

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Sunday, September 19, 2021, 5:10:33 PM, Lukas-Fabian Moser wrote:

> Hi Peter,

> Am 19.09.21 um 18:02 schrieb Peter Toye:
>> I need to extend the width of a glissando so that it's visible. There isn't 
>> room between the dot and the accidental for any meaningful symbol. As you 
>> can see, I've tried various tweaks but none of them has any effect.


>> \version "2.22.1"
>> \language "english"
>> {
>>   \override Glissando.style = #'zigzag
>>   %  \override Glissando.X-extent = #'( -10 . 10)
>>   %  \override Glissando.gap = #5
>>   % \override SpacingSpanner.shortest-duration-space = #50
>>   cs'4. \glissando c'8 
>> }
> This is discussed in the manual:

> https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.23/Documentation/notation/spanners.html#using-the-spanner_002dinterface

> Lukas

Extending the width of a glissando

[Peter Toye]

I need to extend the width of a glissando so that it's visible. There isn't 
room between the dot and the accidental for any meaningful symbol. As you can 
see, I've tried various tweaks but none of them has any effect.


\version "2.22.1"
\language "english"
{
  \override Glissando.style = #'zigzag
  %  \override Glissando.X-extent = #'( -10 . 10)
  %  \override Glissando.gap = #5
  % \override SpacingSpanner.shortest-duration-space = #50
  cs'4. \glissando c'8 
}
 
Regards,

Petermailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Gissando

[Peter Toye]

Thanks Knute,

I posted it in the bug-lilypond list - I'll forward that directly to you and 
Carlos.


Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Sunday, September 19, 2021, 4:54:14 PM, Knute Snortum wrote:

> Do you know what you want to change the documentation to?  If you post
> the verbiage and the list agrees, I can create a pull request for you.

> --
> Knute Snortum


> On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 9:39 AM Peter Toye  wrote:


>> Hi Carlos

>> I've had a similar problem, and I think the documentation  for glissandoMap 
>> is a bit misleading as it seems to imply hat you need a gliss line for each 
>> note. I've suggested a documentation patch to clarify.

>> Best regards,

>> Peter

>> mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com

>> www.ptoye.com

>> -

>> Tuesday, September 14, 2021, 9:34:22 PM, lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org wrote:

>> Send lilypond-user mailing list submissions to
>>         lilypond-user@gnu.org

>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>         https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>         lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org

>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>         lilypond-user-ow...@gnu.org

>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of lilypond-user digest..."

>> Today's Topics:

>>    1. Re: Slashed grace notes (Thomas Morley)
>>    2. Having problems with phrasing and ties combined (Carlos Martinez)
>>    3. Re: Having problems with phrasing and ties combined (Brian Barker)
>>    4. midi sound quality help needed (Kenneth Wolcott)
>>    5. hairpins (Carlos Martinez)
>>    6. Gissando (Carlos Martinez)
>>    7. Re: Having problems with phrasing and ties combined
>>       (Leo Correia de Verdier)

>> --

>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 21:17:08 +0200
>> From: Thomas Morley 
>> To: Paul Hodges 
>> Cc: Xavier Scheuer , Carlos Martinez
>>         ,  lilypond-user Mailing List
>>         
>> Subject: Re: Slashed grace notes
>> Message-ID:
>>         
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

>> Am Di., 14. Sept. 2021 um 11:35 Uhr schrieb Paul Hodges :

>> I have successfully used https://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Snippet?id=1048 to add 
>> slashes to beamed grace notes - thanks!

>> But I have the problem now that I am being required to place the slashed 
>> grace notes before a bar line.  I can do this normally using \afterGrace on 
>> the previous note or rest, but then I don't get the slash, of course.  I 
>> tried to add the slash by defining "\start[stop]AfterGraceMusic" in the 
>> manner used in the snippet for SlashedGrace and Acciacatura, but this didn't 
>> work.

>> Is there a simple solution?

>> Paul

>> On 12/09/2021 19:04:16, "Xavier Scheuer"  wrote:

>> On Sat, 11 Sept 2021 at 22:04, Carlos Martinez 
>>  wrote:

>> Hi,

>> I am finding out that slashed grace notes don’t show the slash when they are 
>> grouped ?

>> Any suggestions?

>> Hello,

>> I think it is standard practice to have slashed grace note only for a single 
>> note.
>> But if you really want to have slashed for grouped have a look at:
>> https://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=1048
>> https://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=721

>> Cheers,
>> Xavier

>> --
>> Xavier Scheuer 

>> Why not use \slash as defined by the LSR-snippet directly?
>> Makes for:

>> {
>>   \afterGrace b1 { \slash 40 1 0.5 c'16 d' } e'1
>> }

>> Cheers,
>>   Harm

>> --

>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 14:55:05 -0500
>> From: Carlos Martinez 
>> To: "lilypond-user Mailing List (lilypond-user@gnu.org)"
>>         
>> Subject: Having problems with phrasing and ties combined
>> Message-ID:
>>         
>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8

>> I need to use a phrasing slur and tie the chord

>> \slashedGrace { e8\downbow } 2~8 8--\downbow |%m144

>> When I tried to add the phrasing slurs it doe snot work

>> \slashedGrace { e8\downbow } ~2\(8 8\)--\downbow |

>> But I am getting an error

>> I can’t seem to get what the problem is?

>> Help is appreciated thanks!

>> --

>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 21:08:21 +0100
>> From: Brian 

Re: \addlyrics in ossia staff

[Peter Toye]

Thanks David,


Lukas-Fabian got there first!

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Sunday, September 19, 2021, 3:21:27 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

> Peter Toye  writes:

>> I'm trying to set a passage of vocal music with a short solo line. But
>> the example below shows that the lyric is not attached to the correct
>> staff. Any ideas how to get it right simply?

Re: \addlyrics in ossia staff

[Peter Toye]

Hello Lukas-Fabian,


Thanks. I knew I'd missed something.
 
With regard to the quotes - I was following the latest documentation.  

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Sunday, September 19, 2021, 2:28:00 PM, Lukas-Fabian Moser wrote:

> Hi Peter,

> Am 19.09.21 um 15:15 schrieb Peter Toye:
>> I'm trying to set a passage of vocal music with a short solo line. But the 
>> example below shows that the lyric is not attached to the correct staff. Any 
>> ideas how to get it right simply?
> That's a matter of naming the ossia staff and using alignBelowContext for the 
> lyrics.
> But I modified your snippet a bit: I removed a number of superfluous brace 
> pairs { }, and it's not necessary anymore to put quotes "" around context 
> names.

> \version "2.22.1"

> \language "english"

> \new Staff = tutti-staff
> <<
>   \new Voice = tutti-voice
>   \relative {
>     c'4 d e f |
>     <<
>   {
>     g f e d |
>     c d e f |
>   }
>   \new Staff = ossiastaff \with {
>     \remove "Time_signature_engraver"
>     firstClef = ##f
>     alignAboveContext = tutti-staff
>   } \relative {
>     b'4 a g f |
>     e f g a |
>   }
>   \addlyrics \with { alignBelowContext = ossiastaff } {
>     So -- lo so -- lo so -- lo so -- lo
>   }
>     >>
>     g f e d |
>   }

>   \new Lyrics \lyricsto tutti-voice {
>     Tut -- ti tut -- ti  tut -- ti tut -- ti
>     Tut -- ti tut -- ti  tut -- ti tut -- ti
>   }
>>>

> Actually, I don't think removing the Time_signature_engraver is really 
> correct for an ossia staff, because if a time signature change were to happen 
> during an ossia, it should be printed in the ossia staff. But I admit that 
> it's quite hard to design ossia staves in a "universally correct" way, and 
> it's probably best to use shortcuts like you did in music not containig 
> complications like these.

> Lukas

\addlyrics in ossia staff

[Peter Toye]

I'm trying to set a passage of vocal music with a short solo line. But the 
example below shows that the lyric is not attached to the correct staff. Any 
ideas how to get it right simply?
 
\version "2.22.1"
\language "english"
{
  \new Staff = "Tutti" {
    <<
      \new Voice = "TuttiVoice" {
        \relative {
          c'4 d e f |
          << {
            g f e d |
            c d e f |
            }
            {
              \new Staff \with {
                \remove "Time_signature_engraver"
                firstClef = ##f
                alignAboveContext = "Tutti"
              }
              \relative {
                b'4 a g f |
                e f g a |
              } \addlyrics {
                So -- lo so -- lo so -- lo so -- lo
              }
            }
          >>
          g f e d |
        }
      }
      \new Lyrics \lyricsto "TuttiVoice" {
        Tut -- ti tut -- ti  tut -- ti tut -- ti
        Tut -- ti tut -- ti  tut -- ti tut -- ti
      }
    >>
  }
}
 
Regards,

Petermailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Removing dynamics from PartCombined staff

[Peter Toye]

Valentin,


Thanks - with a few more additions that works fine!

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Sunday, September 19, 2021, 8:11:45 AM, Valentin Petzel wrote:

> Hello Peter,

> If you want to get rid of all dynamics in the piano reduction altogether, you 
> can simply use

> \new Staff \with {
>         \magnifyStaff #5/7
>         \override DynamicText.stencil = ##f
>         \override DynamicLineSpanner.stencil = ##f
>         \override DynamicTextSpanner.stencil = ##f
> }

> Cheers,
> Valentin

Re: Gissando

[Peter Toye]

Hi Carlos


I've had a similar problem, and I think the documentation  for glissandoMap is 
a bit misleading as it seems to imply hat you need a gliss line for each note. 
I've suggested a documentation patch to clarify.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, September 14, 2021, 9:34:22 PM, lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org wrote:

> Send lilypond-user mailing list submissions to
>         lilypond-user@gnu.org

> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org

> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         lilypond-user-ow...@gnu.org

> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of lilypond-user digest..."


> Today's Topics:

>    1. Re: Slashed grace notes (Thomas Morley)
>    2. Having problems with phrasing and ties combined (Carlos Martinez)
>    3. Re: Having problems with phrasing and ties combined (Brian Barker)
>    4. midi sound quality help needed (Kenneth Wolcott)
>    5. hairpins (Carlos Martinez)
>    6. Gissando (Carlos Martinez)
>    7. Re: Having problems with phrasing and ties combined
>       (Leo Correia de Verdier)


> --

> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 21:17:08 +0200
> From: Thomas Morley 
> To: Paul Hodges 
> Cc: Xavier Scheuer , Carlos Martinez
>         ,  lilypond-user Mailing List
>         
> Subject: Re: Slashed grace notes
> Message-ID:
>         
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

> Am Di., 14. Sept. 2021 um 11:35 Uhr schrieb Paul Hodges :


>> I have successfully used https://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Snippet?id=1048 to add 
>> slashes to beamed grace notes - thanks!

>> But I have the problem now that I am being required to place the slashed 
>> grace notes before a bar line.  I can do this normally using \afterGrace on 
>> the previous note or rest, but then I don't get the slash, of course.  I 
>> tried to add the slash by defining "\start[stop]AfterGraceMusic" in the 
>> manner used in the snippet for SlashedGrace and Acciacatura, but this didn't 
>> work.

>> Is there a simple solution?

>> Paul

>> On 12/09/2021 19:04:16, "Xavier Scheuer"  wrote:

>> On Sat, 11 Sept 2021 at 22:04, Carlos Martinez 
>>  wrote:


>>> Hi,

>>> I am finding out that slashed grace notes don’t show the slash when they 
>>> are grouped ?

>>> Any suggestions?

>> Hello,

>> I think it is standard practice to have slashed grace note only for a single 
>> note.
>> But if you really want to have slashed for grouped have a look at:
>> https://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=1048
>> https://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=721

>> Cheers,
>> Xavier

>> --
>> Xavier Scheuer 

> Why not use \slash as defined by the LSR-snippet directly?
> Makes for:

> {
>   \afterGrace b1 { \slash 40 1 0.5 c'16 d' } e'1
> }

> Cheers,
>   Harm



> --

> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 14:55:05 -0500
> From: Carlos Martinez 
> To: "lilypond-user Mailing List (lilypond-user@gnu.org)"
>         
> Subject: Having problems with phrasing and ties combined
> Message-ID:
>         
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8

> I need to use a phrasing slur and tie the chord

> \slashedGrace { e8\downbow } 2~8 8--\downbow |%m144

> When I tried to add the phrasing slurs it doe snot work


> \slashedGrace { e8\downbow } ~2\(8 8\)--\downbow |

> But I am getting an error

> I can’t seem to get what the problem is?

> Help is appreciated thanks!




> --

> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 21:08:21 +0100
> From: Brian Barker 
> To: 
> Cc: Carlos Martinez 
> Subject: Re: Having problems with phrasing and ties combined
> Message-ID:
>         <613a8f0700a19...@re-prd-rgout-003.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net> (added by
>         postmas...@btinternet.com)
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

> At 14:55 14/09/2021 -0500, Carlos Martinez wrote:

>> ...
>> \slashedGrace { e8\downbow } ~2\(8 8\)--\downbow |

>> But I am getting an error

> Er, what error?!

>> I can't seem to get what the problem is?

> In your e-mail message, that prime after the first "fis" is a smart 
> apostrophe (close quote) instead of the straight prime it should be. 
> Is that your problem?

> Brian Barker 




> --

> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 13:13:00 -0700
> From: Kenneth Wolcott 
> To: Lily Pond 
> Subject: midi sound quality help needed
> Message-ID:
>         
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

> HI All;

>   This is really not a Lilypond question, but I'm sure you have some
> helpful information, as you always do :-)

>   midi sound quality help needed

>   I'm on a Mac.

>   I'm using Lilypond 2.22.0 via MacPorts.

>   I'm using Garageband as my midi player, with 

Re: Removing dynamics from PartCombined staff

[Peter Toye]

Hello Kieren,


One solution (possibly the easiest to implement) would be to have a PartCombine 
version which combines only notes, and nothing else.
 
I think I'm just going to write a separate piano part.  Or leave it out 
completely and rely on the pianist's ability to read four staves. Quite a lot 
of a capella music is published that way.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, September 17, 2021, 8:02:52 PM, Kieren MacMillan wrote:

> Hi Peter,

>> partCombine gets the endpoints of the hairpins wrong, which is a bit of a 
>> disaster. I can try to produce a MWE.

> Yeah, this is an issue that I regularly run into… I tend to “solve” it by 
> using the edition-engraver to inject \! into the appropriate context(s), but 
> it sure would be great if there was an automagic solution.

> Cheers,
> Kieren.
> 

> Kieren MacMillan, composer (he/him/his)
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: kie...@kierenmacmillan.info

Re: Removing dynamics from PartCombined staff

[Peter Toye]

David,


Thanks. There's another reason I want to remove the dynamics though: 
partCombine gets the endpoints of the hairpins wrong, which is a bit of a 
disaster. I can try to produce a MWE.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, September 17, 2021, 5:11:02 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

> Peter Toye  writes:

>> I'm using PartCombine for the first time to produce a piano reduction,
>> and have found a slight problem. Because the dynamics are a bit
>> complex I want to remove them from the piano part, but adding \remove
>> "Dynamic_engraver" to each piano staff has no effect. What am I doing
>> wrong please?

> Dynamic_engraver works at Voice level.  Quashing the Dynamics from
> partCombine will be sort of a chore since partCombine creates a lot of
> little contexts.

Removing dynamics from PartCombined staff

[Peter Toye]

I'm using PartCombine for the first time to produce a piano reduction, and have 
found a slight problem. Because the dynamics are a bit complex I want to remove 
them from the piano part, but adding \remove "Dynamic_engraver" to each piano 
staff has no effect. What am I doing wrong please?


\version "2.22.1"
\language "english"
soprano = {
  {    c''2\p  }
}
alto =  {  c'\f }
Stext = \lyricmode {  Sop }
Atext =  \lyricmode {  Alt }
\score {
  <<
    \new ChoirStaff <<
      \new Staff <<
        \new Voice = "soprano"
        {  \soprano }
      >>
      \new Lyrics  \lyricsto "soprano" \Stext
      \new Staff  <<
        \new Voice = "alto"
        {  \alto }
      >>
      \new Lyrics  \lyricsto "alto" \Atext
    >>
\new PianoStaff
    <<
      \new Staff \with {
        \magnifyStaff #5/7
        \remove "Dynamic_engraver"
      }
      <<
        \set Staff.printPartCombineTexts = ##f
        \partCombine
        <<  \soprano >>
        <<  \alto >>
      >>
    >>
  >>
  \layout { \context {
    \Score
    \override DynamicText.direction = #UP
    \override DynamicLineSpanner.direction = #UP
            }
  }
}
 
 
Regards,

Petermailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Nabble broken?

[Peter Toye]

Jean,

Thanks. The references to "email thing" made me wonder if this was about 
something else.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, June 25, 2021, 5:58:35 PM, Jean Abou Samra wrote:

> Le 25/06/2021 à 18:56, Peter Toye a écrit :
>> Nabble broken? I wanted to look at a thread in Nabble, but nearly all > of 
>> the messages say that they were deleted by the author. Is something > wrong 
>> here?

>> It's happening on all the threads I've looked at, so  it can hardly be > a 
>> mass desertion of contributors.


>> Peter
>> mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com <mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com>
>> www.ptoye.com <http://www.ptoye.com> 
> This is exactly the subject of an ongoing thread:

> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2021-06/msg00225.html

> Best,
> Jean

Nabble broken?

[Peter Toye]

I wanted to look at a thread in Nabble, but nearly all of the messages say that 
they were deleted by the author. Is something wrong here?

It's happening on all the threads I've looked at, so  it can hardly be a mass 
desertion of contributors.

 
Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: lilypond-user Digest, Vol 220, Issue 40

[Peter Toye]

Kieren,

How do you manage enharmonics? Is the black key between C and D a C sharp or D 
flat? Unless the music is completely tonal, I'd have thought you spent more 
time adjusting the accidentals than simply inputting the music from the 
computer keyboard. But I may be wrong. Certainly in the song I was transcribing 
both accidentals are used in profusion.

And how does it manage durations? I didn't see anything on the menu to imply 
that you could set the tempo, so how does it know what value a beat has?. I 
don't have a keyboard to experiment with, though, and with Covid around it's 
not practicable to borrow one.

And can one input a piano piece (as opposed to a single voice)? Two hands, lots 
of splitting into separate voices.

Years ago I read a paper by Christopher Longuet-Higgins who managed to get a 
computer to analyse a single melody and work out which black notes were sharps 
and which were flats. I seem to remember that it got the cor anglais solo from 
the opening of the 3rd act of 'Tristan und Isolde' right except for one note 
which, to be fair, Wagner could have notated either way. But it's not a trivial 
task.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com


> --

> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2021 11:53:51 -0400
> From: Ralph Palmer 
> To: Kieren MacMillan 
> Cc: Carl Sorensen , Flaming Hakama by Elaine
> ,  Lilypond-User Mailing List
> 
> Subject: Re: MIDI input [was Re: Nested transposition]
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 9:14 PM Kieren MacMillan <
> kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>> Hi Carl!

>> >> My music entry is done 99% by MIDI input, so I type almost no commas or
>> apostrophes.
>> > Can you tell me how you do your MIDI input?  I'd like to do that, but I
>> don't have a good workflow for it.

>> 1. I use Frescobaldi.


> Wow. I missed this somehow. I can see why you use absolute values
> exclusively, Kieren. I'm almost exclusively transcribing and transposing
> fiddle tunes. I do a lot of entry from sheet music, and do a lot of
> proofreading, then transposing. Not terribly complicated, but valuable to
> me. Relative entry works much better for me than absolute entry. I can
> input the tune in treble clef, proofread it, and transpose to alto clef
> with fewer than 10 keystrokes.

> All the best,

> Ralph

Re: Nested transposition

[Peter Toye]

My experience is exactly the opposite. I use the computer keyboard for input, 
and as most of the music is for piano, which spans several octaves outside the 
staves, absolute entry is a serious PITA. For vocal music, there aren't usually 
many wide skips, so again relative notation uses fewer keystrokes.

I'm sorry that this request has degenerated into a theological dispute as to 
the relative merits of \relative and \absolute. Both of them support different 
ways of working, and it's a question of which suits whom.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:21:07 -0500
> From: Kieren MacMillan 
> To: Flaming Hakama by Elaine 
> Cc: Lilypond-User Mailing List 
> Subject: Re: Nested transposition
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=utf-8

> Hi Elaine,

>> That may be so, but you likely pay for it every day by typing out extra 
>> commas and apostrophes.

> My music entry is done 99% by MIDI input, so I type almost no commas or 
> apostrophes.
> ;)

> Cheers,
> Kieren.
> 

> Kieren MacMillan, composer (he/him/his)
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: kie...@kierenmacmillan.info




> --

Re: Nested transposition

[Peter Toye]

David (and others),

Thanks to all - I hadn't checked the NR before trying it out. Usually I'm 
transposing an entire score where this issue doesn't apply. Stupid me.

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, March 12, 2021, 4:49:31 PM, David Wright wrote:

> On Fri 12 Mar 2021 at 11:52:36 (+), Peter Toye wrote:
>> Thanks Christian. Not sure why that happens (bug?) but that works fine. 

> The problem (not a bug) is that you can't re-apply \relative
> processing to absolute pitches.

> \relative { … } applies the rules of relative pitch notation, an
> *input* method, to { … } and yields a CHUNK of absolute pitches.

> \transpose X Y { ••• } yields a CHUNK of transposed absolute pitches
> from already absolute pitches.

> \transpose X Y { ••• \relative { … } ••• } does both the above in turn,
> but working from the *inside*. So after the \relative is processed, all
> of { ••• [:CHUNK:] ••• } consists of absolute pitches to be transposed.

> \relative { … … [:CHUNK:] … … [:CHUNK:] … … } applies the rules of
> relative pitch notation to all the … pieces in *one* logical sequence,
> treating the pitches inside the CHUNKs as invisible because they,
> working from the inside, have each had their pitches frozen already
> by the same rules as above.

> Note particularly that any [:CHUNK:] could itself be a \relative { … },
> which is separately processed first. (It's recursive.)

> One good thing—you haven't used any floating pitches, as in
> tune = { c d e c d e f d }. That can complicate matters.

>> Friday, March 12, 2021, 10:59:03 AM, Christian Masser wrote:

>> It seems that \transpose treats the block of notes following it as absolute 
>> notes. If you adapt that line to explicit relative notation it probably 
>> yields the result you're aspiring.

>> \version "2.22.0"

>> \language "english"

>> {
>>   \transpose c a,
>>   \relative {
>> c'4 d e f g a b c
>> \transpose cs df
>> \relative {cs' ds es fs gs as bs cs}
>>   }
>> }

>> Am Fr., 12. März 2021 um 11:35 Uhr schrieb Peter Toye :

>> I am trying to engrave a transposed song. It's written without key signature 
>> but is very tonal. It starts in C and ends in C#. I want to transpose it 
>> down a minor third. The part in C is fine, but the part in C# ends up as A## 
>> and there are far too many double-sharps for it to be performable.

>> I found the 'minimal accidental' snippet but that looks as if it messes up 
>> the tonality - a mixture of A sharp and B flat.

>> I tried the code below, which get the note names right but the octaves go 
>> completely wrong. Is this a bug? It would be a useful feature if it could be 
>> corrected.

>> \version "2.22.0"

>> \language "english"

>> {
>>   \transpose c a,
>>   \relative {
>> c'4 d e f g a b c
>> \transpose as bf
>> {cs, ds es fs gs as bs cs}
>>
>>   }  
>> }

> Cheers,
> David.

Re: Nested transposition

[Peter Toye]

Thanks Christian. Not sure why that happens (bug?) but that works fine. 

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, March 12, 2021, 10:59:03 AM, Christian Masser wrote:


Hi Peter!

It seems that \transpose treats the block of notes following it as absolute 
notes. If you adapt that line to explicit relative notation it probably yields 
the result you're aspiring.

\version "2.22.0"

\language "english"

{
  \transpose c a,
  \relative {
c'4 d e f g a b c
\transpose cs df
\relative {cs' ds es fs gs as bs cs}
  }
}

All the best,
Christian

Am Fr., 12. März 2021 um 11:35 Uhr schrieb Peter Toye :

I am trying to engrave a transposed song. It's written without key signature 
but is very tonal. It starts in C and ends in C#. I want to transpose it down a 
minor third. The part in C is fine, but the part in C# ends up as A## and there 
are far too many double-sharps for it to be performable.

I found the 'minimal accidental' snippet but that looks as if it messes up the 
tonality - a mixture of A sharp and B flat.

I tried the code below, which get the note names right but the octaves go 
completely wrong. Is this a bug? It would be a useful feature if it could be 
corrected.

\version "2.22.0"

\language "english"

{
  \transpose c a,
  \relative {
c'4 d e f g a b c
\transpose as bf
{cs, ds es fs gs as bs cs}
   
  }  
}

 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Nested transposition

[Peter Toye]

I am trying to engrave a transposed song. It's written without key signature 
but is very tonal. It starts in C and ends in C#. I want to transpose it down a 
minor third. The part in C is fine, but the part in C# ends up as A## and there 
are far too many double-sharps for it to be performable.

I found the 'minimal accidental' snippet but that looks as if it messes up the 
tonality - a mixture of A sharp and B flat.

I tried the code below, which get the note names right but the octaves go 
completely wrong. Is this a bug? It would be a useful feature if it could be 
corrected.

\version "2.22.0"

\language "english"

{
  \transpose c a,
  \relative {
c'4 d e f g a b c
\transpose as bf
{cs, ds es fs gs as bs cs}

  }  
}

 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Workaround for (not-allowed) numbers in variable names?

[Peter Toye]

The 2.22 documentation is obviously better here:

The name of a variable should not contain (ASCII) numbers, multiple 
underscores, multiple dashes or space characters. All other characters Unicode 
provides are allowed, for example Latin, Greek, Chinese or Cyrillic. 
Non-adjacent single underscores and dashes are allowed, too. In other words, 
variable names like HornIII or ???XII work.

Any combination of characters is allowed if the variable name is enclosed in 
double quotation marks. In this case backslashes and double quotation marks 
need to be escaped with backslashes (not that you actually should use them). 
Examples: "foo bar", "a-b-c", "Horn 3". 

 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Workaround for (not-allowed) numbers in variable names?

[Peter Toye]

Thanks for putting me right yet again. I'm not quite sure what you mean by 
'resized'.  q4 is surely legal?

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Sunday, March 7, 2021, 12:09:30 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

> Peter Toye  writes:

>> I asked this question some time ago, and David Kastrup was kind enough
>> to put me right.

>> The problem , as you mentioned, is in the way that numbers are used
>> for durations. Consider the following code:

>> chord = 
>> chord2= 

>> c1 \chord2

>> Should the second element be interpreted as 2 or 1? I
>> imagine this would confuse the lexer horribly.

> The lexer follows rules.  It's never confused.  The user is something
> different.  Incidentally, chords cannot be resized, so \chord2 would be
> interpreted as

>  2

> due to how isolated durations in music are interpreted.

>> No doubt some rules could be written to resolve this, but it would
>> need some recoding.

> Durations generally don't require space separation, like with a4 and so
> on.  Balancing conflicting desires and requirements and consistency is
> always tricky.  TeX has also chosen not to admit numbers into
> identifiers and people tend to complain it cramps their style.

Re: Workaround for (not-allowed) numbers in variable names?

[Peter Toye]

My personal view is that variables are important concepts and deserve a 
separate section somewhere - possibly 3.1.6 as a separate part of 'File 
Structure'. I note that the preceding section on markup text does not contain 
any detailed syntax definition - not even a link to the relevant section.

I'd do the mods myself, and tried to do some earlier, but  had difficulty in 
getting a Linux to work under a VM on my Windows machine. Unfortunately my 
health is a bit precarious and I can't take on any long-term projects.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Sunday, March 7, 2021, 12:34:45 PM, Werner LEMBERG wrote:


>> Yes, it's documented in the Notation Reference Manual section 3.1.5
>> File Structure.  It doesn't seem the obvious place to put the syntax
>> of variable names.

> Well, there is a proper index entry...  However, documentation for the
> 'foo.1.bar.2' trick is still missing.

> Do you have a better suggestion where this information should be
> presented in the Notation Reference?


> Werner

Re: Workaround for (not-allowed) numbers in variable names?

[Peter Toye]

Yes, it's documented in the Notation Reference Manual section 3.1.5 File 
Structure. It doesn't seem the obvious place to put the syntax of variable 
names.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-

> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2021 21:30:56 +0900
> From: 田村淳 
> To: "lilypond-user@gnu.org" 
> Subject: Re: Workaround for (not-allowed) numbers in variable names?
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> Wow! This is something I’ve been looking for for a long time. Is this 
> documented somewhere?

> Best regards,

> Jun
> https://imslp.org/wiki/User:Jun_T 

>> 2021/03/06 18:09、Richard Shann のメール:

>> On Fri, 2021-03-05 at 10:15 -0800, Mogens Lemvig Hansen wrote:
>>> I believe it was David K who made this magic work:
>>>  
>>> \version "2.20.0"
>>>  
>>> mus.1 = { c d e }
>>>  
>>> \score {
>>>   \new Staff { \mus.1 }
>>> }
>>>  

>> This can be extended to cover the case where a variable has two numbers
>> associated with it:

>> 8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><
>> \version "2.20.0"
>>  
>> Movement.1.Staff.1 = { c d e }
>> Movement.1.Staff.2 = { c' d' e' }
>> Movement.2.Staff.1 = { f g a } 
>> Movement.2.Staff.2 = { f' g' a' } 
>> \score {
>>   <<
>> \new Staff { \Movement.1.Staff.1 }
>> \new Staff { \Movement.1.Staff.2 }
>>   >>

>> }
>> \score {
>>   <<
>>   \new Staff { \Movement.2.Staff.1 }
>> \new Staff { \Movement.2.Staff.2 }
>>   >>

>> }

>> 8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><8><

>> (cautionary note: I haven't examined the code or docs on this, but it
>> seems a dot before and after will do the trick mid-word and a single
>> dot at end of word)

>> A decade or so ago I resorted to converting all the numbers to Roman
>> numerals using a C routine that's knocking around on the interweb...
>> time I upgraded that.

>> Richard Shann



>>> Regards,
>>> Mogens
>>>  
>>> From: Silvain Dupertuis
>>> Sent: March 5, 2021 10:12
>>> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
>>> Subject: Re: Workaround for (not-allowed) numbers in variable names?
>>>  
>>> I also wondered why numbers are not allowed in variables.
>>> As for me, I used things like A, B, C instead... but it is less
>>> practical.
>>>  
>>> My guess is that it may be linked to the way numbers are used in
>>> notes and chords to indicate duration, otherwise it would be real
>>> nice to be able to use digits in variable names...!
>>>  
>>> Le 05.03.21 à 17:37, stefano franchi a écrit :
>>> Here is a question for anyone who may have been using lilypond for
>>> projects involving text and many, many, short and similar musical
>>> snippets.
>>>  
>>> I am putting together a book that will contain many (very brief) 
>>> exercises, grouped thematically. I had thought a convenient and
>>> flexible way to organize the material and keep future maintenance
>>> under control would be to create top level variables names for the
>>> main musical categories and sub-categories and then assign each score
>>> snippet to progressively numbered variable. So I would have, CategA-1 
>>> = {"code for one exercise"} , CategB-2 = "code for another
>>> exercise"}, and so on. Clean structure, easy to maintain and
>>> rearrange, etc.
>>>  
>>> Then I discovered that lilypond does not allow numbers in variable
>>> names :-(
>>>  
>>> I'd be willing to bet my use case is not particularly weird---there
>>> must have been other people encountering the same problem.
>>>  
>>> How have you guys managed it?
>>>  
>>> Cheers,
>>>  
>>> S.
>>>  

>>> --
>>> __
>>> Stefano Franchi

>>> stefano.fran...@gmail.com
>>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Stefano_Franchi
>>>  
>>> -- 
>>> Silvain Dupertuis
>>> Route de Lausanne 335
>>> 1293 Bellevue (Switzerland)
>>> tél. +41-(0)22-774.20.67
>>> portable +41-(0)79-604.87.52
>>> web: silvain-dupertuis.org
>>>  


> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 

> --

Re: Workaround for (not-allowed) numbers in variable names?

[Peter Toye]

I asked this question some time ago, and David Kastrup was kind enough to put 
me right.

The problem , as you mentioned, is in the way that numbers are used for 
durations. Consider the following code:

chord = 
chord2= 

c1 \chord2

Should the second element be interpreted as 2 or 1? I imagine 
this would confuse the lexer horribly. No doubt some rules could be written to 
resolve this, but it would need some recoding. Easier to stick with using 
quotes.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-

> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2021 18:17:02 +0100
> From: Silvain Dupertuis 
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Workaround for (not-allowed) numbers in variable names?
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

> I also wondered why numbers are not allowed in variables.
> As for me, I used things like A, B, C instead... but it is less practical.

> My guess is that it may be linked to the way numbers are used in notes and 
> chords to 
> indicate duration, otherwise it would be real nice to be able to use digits 
> in variable 
> names...!

> Le 05.03.21 à 17:37, stefano franchi a écrit :
>> Here is a question for anyone who may have been using lilypond for projects 
>> involving 
>> text and many, many, short and similar musical snippets.

>> I am putting together a book that will contain many (very brief)  exercises, 
>> grouped 
>> thematically. I had thought a convenient and flexible way to organize the 
>> material and 
>> keep future maintenance under control would be to create top level variables 
>> names for 
>> the main musical categories and sub-categories and then assign each score 
>> snippet to 
>> progressively numbered variable. So I would have, CategA-1 = {"code for one 
>> exercise"} , 
>> CategB-2 = "code for another exercise"}, and so on. Clean structure, easy to 
>> maintain 
>> and rearrange, etc.

>> Then I discovered that lilypond does not allow numbers in variable names 
>> :-(

>> I'd be willing to bet my use case is not particularly weird---there must 
>> have been other 
>> people encountering the same problem.

>> How have you guys managed it?

>> Cheers,

>> S.


>> -- 
>> __
>> Stefano Franchi

>> stefano.fran...@gmail.com 
>> /https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Stefano_Franchi/ 
>> 


> -- 
> Silvain Dupertuis
> Route de Lausanne 335
> 1293 Bellevue (Switzerland)
> tél. +41-(0)22-774.20.67
> portable +41-(0)79-604.87.52
> web: silvain-dupertuis.org 
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 

> --

Re: Partial ottava sign

[Peter Toye]

Just the one chord. I'll try that unless anyone else here comes up with a 
better suggestion. I was really asking whether there's an accepted way of doing 
it.


Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, February 19, 2021, 4:37:24 PM, Maestraccio wrote:

> If it's just one or two chords, I'd add a text markup "LH 8va bassa" (or in 
> classical music "MS 8va bassa"), that's clear enough for me

> Met vriendelijke groet,

> Bart


>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2021 at 5:17 PM
>> From: "Kieren MacMillan" 
>> To: "Peter Toye" 
>> Cc: "Lilypond-User Mailing List" 
>> Subject: Re: Partial ottava sign

>> Hi Peter,

>> > Is there an accepted way of notating an ottava sign for only part of a 
>> > staff? I have a two-handed chord of which the LH part needs to be an 
>> > octave lower than notated, but the RH part is at pitch.

>> > I realise that this isn't really a LilyPond question but a general music 
>> > engraving one (it may turn into a LilPond question depending on the 
>> > answer, though)..

>> Do you have “Behind Bars” by Elaine Gould? It’s kind of the definitive 
>> starting place for all such questions — and an essential (I believe) 
>> addition to any engraver’s library.

>> Hope that helps!
>> Kieren.
>> 

>> Kieren MacMillan, composer (he/him/his)
>> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
>> ‣ email: kie...@kierenmacmillan.info




> Met vriendelijke groet,

> Bart


>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2021 at 5:17 PM
>> From: "Kieren MacMillan" 
>> To: "Peter Toye" 
>> Cc: "Lilypond-User Mailing List" 
>> Subject: Re: Partial ottava sign

>> Hi Peter,

>> > Is there an accepted way of notating an ottava sign for only part of a 
>> > staff? I have a two-handed chord of which the LH part needs to be an 
>> > octave lower than notated, but the RH part is at pitch.

>> > I realise that this isn't really a LilyPond question but a general music 
>> > engraving one (it may turn into a LilPond question depending on the 
>> > answer, though)..

>> Do you have “Behind Bars” by Elaine Gould? It’s kind of the definitive 
>> starting place for all such questions — and an essential (I believe) 
>> addition to any engraver’s library.

>> Hope that helps!
>> Kieren.
>> 

>> Kieren MacMillan, composer (he/him/his)
>> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
>> ‣ email: kie...@kierenmacmillan.info

Re: Partial ottava sign

[Peter Toye]

Hello Kieren,

No I don't - it's expensive and as I don't do this for money I really can't 
afford it.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, February 19, 2021, 4:17:29 PM, Kieren MacMillan wrote:

> Hi Peter,

>> Is there an accepted way of notating an ottava sign for only part of a 
>> staff? I have a two-handed chord of which the LH part needs to be an octave 
>> lower than notated, but the RH part is at pitch.

>> I realise that this isn't really a LilyPond question but a general music 
>> engraving one (it may turn into a LilPond question depending on the answer, 
>> though)..

> Do you have “Behind Bars” by Elaine Gould? It’s kind of the definitive 
> starting place for all such questions — and an essential (I believe) addition 
> to any engraver’s library.

> Hope that helps!
> Kieren.
> 

> Kieren MacMillan, composer (he/him/his)
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: kie...@kierenmacmillan.info

Partial ottava sign

[Peter Toye]

Is there an accepted way of notating an ottava sign for only part of a staff? I 
have a two-handed chord of which the LH part needs to be an octave lower than 
notated, but the RH part is at pitch. 

I realise that this isn't really a LilyPond question but a general music 
engraving one (it may turn into a LilPond question depending on the answer, 
though)..

 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Problems adding voice with rests

[Peter Toye]

Thanks Andrew - a bit late as you say, and I've already adapted Christian's 
solution. But it's probably the best one.


Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Wednesday, February 17, 2021, 7:35:06 AM, you wrote:

> Chiming in somewhat late. Here is what I typically write. The sort of
> New Complexity music I engrave, I am forever setting stems up and down
> manually, so perhaps this is not a 'normal' or 'proper' style, but it
> works well and quick to do. The virtue of this setting is no messing
> around with hidden notes, which, although useful and essential, I see
> no need for here.

> There's always more than one way to do it! TAMTOWTDI! (apologies to Perl).


> Andrew


> %

> \version "2.23.0"

> {
>   \clef bass
>   \time 12/8
>   <<
> {
>   \stemDown
>   e,2. _~
>   \stemUp
>   4. 4 b,,8 |
>   \stemDown
>   e,,2. _~
>   e,,2.
> }
> \new Voice
> {
>  \shiftOff
>   b,4.^\(^~ b,8 c e s2. |
>   \stemDown
>   \override Stem.length = #6
>   e,2.\) _~ e,2.
> }
> \new Voice
> {
>   s2. s2. |
>   f4.\rest
> }
 >>>
> }

> %

> On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 at 02:28, Peter Toye  wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying to set this piece of slightly strange voice writing (see 
>> attachment).
>>
>> It obviously needs three voices: one for the lower line (voice 2), one for 
>> the upper line (voice 1) and a third for the rest at the end.
>>
>> The closest I've got is below, but this has two problems with the final beat:
>>
>> 1 - The bass octave is shifted right.
>> 2 - The rest and its dot are separated.
>>
>> Playing about with \shiftOff and changing or omitting \VoiceOne have no 
>> effect. Obviously I'm doing something stupid but can't work out what it is.
>>
>> Incidentally, neither the Learning nor Notation manuals say how to cancel a 
>> \hide instruction. I'm a bit surprised to find that there isn't an \unhide 
>> command!
>>
>> \version "2.19.83"
>>
>> \language "english"
>>
>> {
>>   \time 12/8
>>   \clef "bass"
>>   <<
>>
>> \relative {
>>   b,4.~( 8 c e  4.  4 b,8 |
>>   <<
>> \hideNotes e4.)
>> \new Voice {
>>   \voiceOne
>>   \absolute f4.\rest
>> }
>>   >>
>> }
>> \\
>> \relative
>> {
>>   e,2.~ \hide Stem 4.~ 4 \revert Voice.Stem.transparent s8 |
>>   2. s2.
>> }
>>   >>
>> }
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Peter
>> mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
>> www.ptoye.com

Re: Problems adding voice with rests

[Peter Toye]

Thanks (I've already replied to your second version). Unfortunately you're 
wrong about the doubled stem: the next note is the bass octave E again. Odd 
part-writing, but as I said, I didn't write it. It might be a publisher's house 
style or just a typo which never got corrected (there are some of these in the 
score).


Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Monday, February 15, 2021, 5:43:26 PM, Christian Masser wrote:


Dear Peter,

I fear, this one was easy to miss, given the screenshot you sent us. ;)

It looks like you can put the part we had till now into a lowerVoice variable, 
with the newly introduced upper voice into another and then partCombine does a 
pretty good job. I don't know if this is a dirty hack to feed partCombine 
already polyphonic music, but the result looks decent to me - at least for now.

The doubled stem at the last note might hint that it is a note used in both 
voices - therefore I would assume it splits again on the next beat?

upperPart = \relative {
\voiceOne
s1. |
s4. s8

\partCombineApart
c( e b4. ~ 4 b,8) |
}

lowerPart = {
  { <<
\relative {
  b,4.~( 8 c e  4.  4 b,8 |
  \stemDown 2. ~ \stemDown 4. c4\rest b8 |
}
\\
\relative
{
  e,2.~ \hide Stem 4.~ 4 \revert Voice.Stem.transparent s8 |
  f'4.\rest f8\rest
}
  >>
  }
}
\score {
\new Staff {
  \time 12/8
  \clef "bass"
  <<
  \partCombine \upperPart \lowerPart
  >>
}
}

All the best
Christian

Am Mo., 15. Feb. 2021 um 18:18 Uhr schrieb Peter Toye :

Kieran, Christian,

There's something we all missed: the tie on the final bass note. Here's the 
full bar/measure attached. This give as a bit of t problem as the two-voice 
writing goes on for some time with lots of slurs & ties. So putting the E 
octave in the top voice means that I can't then use that voice for the higher 
voice until the slurs stop. Is there an elegant way ff doing this?

Please don't ask me why the final note of the 2nd bar is double-stemmed - I 
didn't write this :)

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Monday, February 15, 2021, 4:59:00 PM, you wrote:

> Hi Peter,

>> Thanks very much - I don't quite see how this solves the rest problem, or 
>> does LilyPond always align dots vertically regardless of the horizontal 
>> position of the note?

> That’s a preference — the default is to align dots.

>> I find Christian's solution a bit more elegant as it uses only 2 voices.

> Agreed! I prefer it, too.  =)

>> I'd forgotten about \undo - I've not used LP for several months. I still 
>> find it a bit odd that there's \unHideNotes but not \UnHide :)

> \undo is a generally-applicable function.
> \unHideNotes is syntactic sugar for use in a single situation.

> Best,
> Kieren.
> 

> Kieren MacMillan, composer (he/him/his)
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: kie...@kierenmacmillan.info

Re: Problems adding voice with rests

[Peter Toye]

Thanks again. And don't worry about the double post :)

I'd not really looked at partCombine as the description in the manuals refers 
to genuinely polyphonic music, which this sort of piano writing definitely 
isn't. But it seems to work. Now to work out how to continue this for the next 
few bars (which are repeats of the 2nd bar). I can probably do this by myself 
but may come back for more help!

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Monday, February 15, 2021, 6:00:15 PM, Christian Masser wrote:


If you excuse the second double post in one thread - I really should think 
before writing - this solution seems even better. It's a little fizzle work to 
get the \voice commands right, but it works and is far easier to read than my 
previous solution. Plus, it allows good continuation of the two voices. Be 
aware that the voices change position - so "up" becomes the second voice and 
vice versa.

up = \relative c {
b4.( ~ b8 c e b4. ~ b4 b,8 |
\voiceTwo
2. ~ 4. c4\rest b8 |
}

down = \relative c, {
e2. ~ \voiceOne e4._~ 4 s8 |
f'4.\rest f8\rest
\partCombineApart
c( e b4. ~ 4 b,8) |
}
\score {
\new Staff {
\time 12/8
\clef "bass"
\partCombine \up \down
}
}

All the best
Christian

Am Mo., 15. Feb. 2021 um 18:18 Uhr schrieb Peter Toye :

Kieran, Christian,

There's something we all missed: the tie on the final bass note. Here's the 
full bar/measure attached. This give as a bit of t problem as the two-voice 
writing goes on for some time with lots of slurs & ties. So putting the E 
octave in the top voice means that I can't then use that voice for the higher 
voice until the slurs stop. Is there an elegant way ff doing this?

Please don't ask me why the final note of the 2nd bar is double-stemmed - I 
didn't write this :)

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Monday, February 15, 2021, 4:59:00 PM, you wrote:

> Hi Peter,

>> Thanks very much - I don't quite see how this solves the rest problem, or 
>> does LilyPond always align dots vertically regardless of the horizontal 
>> position of the note?

> That’s a preference — the default is to align dots.

>> I find Christian's solution a bit more elegant as it uses only 2 voices.

> Agreed! I prefer it, too.  =)

>> I'd forgotten about \undo - I've not used LP for several months. I still 
>> find it a bit odd that there's \unHideNotes but not \UnHide :)

> \undo is a generally-applicable function.
> \unHideNotes is syntactic sugar for use in a single situation.

> Best,
> Kieren.
> 

> Kieren MacMillan, composer (he/him/his)
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: kie...@kierenmacmillan.info

Re: Problems adding voice with rests

[Peter Toye]

Christian,

Thanks very much. Why didn't I think of using the lower voice for the rest?

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Monday, February 15, 2021, 4:01:00 PM, Christian Masser wrote:


Edit: I forgot the \hide Stem command , but it also works with
   e,2.~ \hide Stem 4.~ 4 \revert Voice.Stem.transparent s8 |
instead of 
   e,2.~ 4.~ 4 s8 |

All the best
Christian

Am Mo., 15. Feb. 2021 um 16:56 Uhr schrieb Christian Masser 
:

Hi Peter!

It seems that the invisible e you add for the ending of the bow is drawn as a 
note facing the left side (you can unhide it) which explains the right-shift of 
the e2.
If you rearrange it to:
  <<
\relative {
  b,4.~( 8 c e  4.  4 b,8 |
  2. s2.
}
\\
\relative
{
  e,2.~ 4.~ 4 s8 |
  f'4.\rest
}
  >>
this interestingly also seems to solve the other problem.

All the best
Christian

Am Mo., 15. Feb. 2021 um 16:28 Uhr schrieb Peter Toye :

I'm trying to set this piece of slightly strange voice writing (see attachment).

It obviously needs three voices: one for the lower line (voice 2), one for the 
upper line (voice 1) and a third for the rest at the end.

The closest I've got is below, but this has two problems with the final beat:

1 - The bass octave is shifted right.
2 - The rest and its dot are separated.

Playing about with \shiftOff and changing or omitting \VoiceOne have no effect. 
Obviously I'm doing something stupid but can't work out what it is.

Incidentally, neither the Learning nor Notation manuals say how to cancel a 
\hide instruction. I'm a bit surprised to find that there isn't an \unhide 
command!

\version "2.19.83"

\language "english"

{
  \time 12/8
  \clef "bass"
  <<
   
\relative {
  b,4.~( 8 c e  4.  4 b,8 |
  <<
\hideNotes e4.)
\new Voice {
  \voiceOne
  \absolute f4.\rest
}
  >>
}
\\
\relative
{
  e,2.~ \hide Stem 4.~ 4 \revert Voice.Stem.transparent s8 |
  2. s2.
}
  >>
}
 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Problems adding voice with rests

[Peter Toye]

I'm trying to set this piece of slightly strange voice writing (see attachment).

It obviously needs three voices: one for the lower line (voice 2), one for the 
upper line (voice 1) and a third for the rest at the end.

The closest I've got is below, but this has two problems with the final beat:

1 - The bass octave is shifted right.
2 - The rest and its dot are separated.

Playing about with \shiftOff and changing or omitting \VoiceOne have no effect. 
Obviously I'm doing something stupid but can't work out what it is.

Incidentally, neither the Learning nor Notation manuals say how to cancel a 
\hide instruction. I'm a bit surprised to find that there isn't an \unhide 
command!

\version "2.19.83"

\language "english"

{
  \time 12/8
  \clef "bass"
  <<
   
\relative {
  b,4.~( 8 c e  4.  4 b,8 |
  <<
\hideNotes e4.)
\new Voice {
  \voiceOne
  \absolute f4.\rest
}
  >>
}
\\
\relative
{
  e,2.~ \hide Stem 4.~ 4 \revert Voice.Stem.transparent s8 |
  2. s2.
}
  >>
}
 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Puzzled about installation of version 2.22

[Peter Toye]

David,

Of course! My eyesight's not too good and I misread the suggested directory 
name. Thanks.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, February 9, 2021, 10:01:23 PM, David Wright wrote:

> On Tue 09 Feb 2021 at 16:42:58 (+), Peter Toye wrote:
>> I'm trying to get up to date with Lilypond, not having used it for several 
>> months, so downloaded version 22.0.

>> My OS is Windows 10 Home 64-bit.

>> When I clicked on the .exe file, I was told that there was an existing 
>> installation (fair enough, I've got 3 versions already on my machine) and 
>> I'd have to uninstall it. I don't remember this happening before - is this a 
>> new feature?  I don't want to uninstall older versions of LP as I might need 
>> them again.

> Perhaps you tried to install it in the same location as one of the
> other versions. The linux version's installation script gives you
> a --prefix option for its location, and I expect the .exe gives
> you the same functionality in some manner.

> If you create a symlink somewhere in your PATH that points to the
> favoured version, "lilypond" will run that version; other can be
> run by giving (clicking on) an appropriate specific path to the
> executable.

> Cheers,
> David.

Puzzled about installation of version 2.22

[Peter Toye]

I'm trying to get up to date with Lilypond, not having used it for several 
months, so downloaded version 22.0.

My OS is Windows 10 Home 64-bit.

When I clicked on the .exe file, I was told that there was an existing 
installation (fair enough, I've got 3 versions already on my machine) and I'd 
have to uninstall it. I don't remember this happening before - is this a new 
feature?  I don't want to uninstall older versions of LP as I might need them 
again.

 
All the best,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: A comment about the documentation

[Peter Toye]

David,

Wow! Thank you!  It works in 2.20.0 as well.

It seems I'm only 5 years out of date.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, January 1, 2021, 5:19:10 PM, David Nalesnik wrote:


Hi Peter,

On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 10:46 AM Peter Toye  wrote:

Carl,
 

[...]
 

I hate to say it but I think the documentation is failing here, but can't see 
how to mend it easily. To start with, maybe a list of all the publicly 
available functions and their descriptions, but I suspect it would be far too 
long and need constant updating, which is not something that the LP documenters 
like for obvious reasons. Could it be mechanised?

Best regards,

Peter

Here's something which will give you a list of all public Scheme functions with 
whatever docstring is available in the source:

https://www.mail-archive.com/lilypond-user@gnu.org/msg100337.html

Hope this helps--
David 

Re: A comment about the documentation

[Peter Toye]

Pierre,

Merci beaucoup.

This partly solves the problem - but only for that particular snippet  How many 
other snippets are there which rely on undocumented public functions? And how 
many undocumented functions are there which don't appear in any snippets?

The problem is that if some functionality in a programming system needs a 
search through thousands of lines of code to discover it, it won't be used. I 
thought that the LP ethos was to make its extreme flexibility available to the 
general user (OK, they need to know programming and list processing as well). 
But to hide functionality away, however unintentionally, seems to contradict 
this. I agree that there is a large body of people who are only too willing to 
help (three on this thread alone), and maybe the number of queries you all get 
does not add much to the workload, but personally I much prefer sitting down 
with a manual and working it out myself. As an ex-professional programmer I'm 
quite used to learning syntax, but the details of how to match function to 
functionality has always been a problem - one really needs a telepathic I/O 
device.

For LP objects this problem is touched upon in the Learning Manual, where ways 
of finding the correct section in the Internals Reference are discussed. 

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, January 1, 2021, 5:01:27 PM, Pierre Perol-Schneider wrote:


I've added the github link in the snippet defs.
Cheers,
Pierre

Le ven. 1 janv. 2021 à 17:46, Peter Toye  a écrit :

Carl,

Thanks. The problem is that map-some-music is obviously a very useful function 
if you're trying to write code that performs an action at many places in a 
music expression, but there's no pointer to it. How the snippet writer found it 
I've obviously no idea (maybe they also wrote map-some-music). As it happens I 
wanted to do exactly what the snippet writer wanted so cutting and pasting were 
easy.

Another thing I want to do is to work out how to write a function that adds an 
octave beneath each note in a music expression to save a lot of time writing 
two-note chords.  I'm sure make-some-music will help here. But if I hadn't 
found the snippet, how would I ever have known where to look in the source - 
there's a lot of it?

I hate to say it but I think the documentation is failing here, but can't see 
how to mend it easily. To start with, maybe a list of all the publicly 
available functions and their descriptions, but I suspect it would be far too 
long and need constant updating, which is not something that the LP documenters 
like for obvious reasons. Could it be mechanised?

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, January 1, 2021, 4:06:59 PM, Carl Sorensen wrote:





On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 8:59 AM Peter Toye  wrote:

Christian,

Thanks Christian. How one is meant to know this I have no idea. Maybe it was 
meant to be in the missing 3rd chapter of the Extending manual.

No, one is meant to search the source.  There are many scheme functions in the 
source that are used internally, but are not documented externally.  Advanced 
users will search the source code for these functions.  In the case of the LSR, 
you have examples of their use.  So you know the name of the function, and you 
can search the source to find the code.

If you are working on a machine (e.g. windows) that doesn't give you ready 
access to the source files, you can always go to the repository at GitLab or 
Savannah and search the source online.

Best wishes,

Carl

Re: A comment about the documentation

[Peter Toye]

Carl,

Thanks. The problem is that map-some-music is obviously a very useful function 
if you're trying to write code that performs an action at many places in a 
music expression, but there's no pointer to it. How the snippet writer found it 
I've obviously no idea (maybe they also wrote map-some-music). As it happens I 
wanted to do exactly what the snippet writer wanted so cutting and pasting were 
easy.

Another thing I want to do is to work out how to write a function that adds an 
octave beneath each note in a music expression to save a lot of time writing 
two-note chords.  I'm sure make-some-music will help here. But if I hadn't 
found the snippet, how would I ever have known where to look in the source - 
there's a lot of it?

I hate to say it but I think the documentation is failing here, but can't see 
how to mend it easily. To start with, maybe a list of all the publicly 
available functions and their descriptions, but I suspect it would be far too 
long and need constant updating, which is not something that the LP documenters 
like for obvious reasons. Could it be mechanised?

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, January 1, 2021, 4:06:59 PM, Carl Sorensen wrote:




On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 8:59 AM Peter Toye  wrote:

Christian,

Thanks Christian. How one is meant to know this I have no idea. Maybe it was 
meant to be in the missing 3rd chapter of the Extending manual.

No, one is meant to search the source.  There are many scheme functions in the 
source that are used internally, but are not documented externally.  Advanced 
users will search the source code for these functions.  In the case of the LSR, 
you have examples of their use.  So you know the name of the function, and you 
can search the source to find the code.

If you are working on a machine (e.g. windows) that doesn't give you ready 
access to the source files, you can always go to the repository at GitLab or 
Savannah and search the source online.

Best wishes,

Carl

Re: A comment about the documentation

[Peter Toye]

Christian,

Thanks Christian. How one is meant to know this I have no idea. Maybe it was 
meant to be in the missing 3rd chapter of the Extending manual.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, January 1, 2021, 12:38:33 PM, Christian Masser wrote:


Hi Peter!

It seems to be defined here: 
https://github.com/lilypond/lilypond/blob/master/scm/music-functions.scm#L2036 

All the best and a happy new year,

Christian

Am Fr., 1. Jan. 2021 um 13:29 Uhr schrieb Peter Toye :

It seems that I'm probably going to be doing more engraving after all.

I have a comment about the documentation. I wanted to add the same articulation 
to all notes in a music expression, and found 
http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=82 which does exactly what I want.

I noticed that it uses a function called 'map-some-music' and I can't find any 
reference to this in the Extending or Internals manuals. It seems to have the 
function of traversing a music expression and doing things to it - but is there 
a definition of its function anywhere? It would seem to be very useful.
 
A happy 2021 to all Ponders - may it bring vaccinations,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

A comment about the documentation

[Peter Toye]

It seems that I'm probably going to be doing more engraving after all. 

I have a comment about the documentation. I wanted to add the same articulation 
to all notes in a music expression, and found 
http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=82 which does exactly what I want.

I noticed that it uses a function called 'map-some-music' and I can't find any 
reference to this in the Extending or Internals manuals. It seems to have the 
function of traversing a music expression and doing things to it - but is there 
a definition of its function anywhere? It would seem to be very useful.
 
A happy 2021 to all Ponders - may it bring vaccinations,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Misaligned tempo indications

[Peter Toye]

Carl,

Thanks. Of course.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Thursday, June 18, 2020, 5:37:20 PM, Carl Sorensen wrote:


Change 
 
\new Voice = “vocals”
 
To 
 
\new Staff = “vocals”
 
 
The Voice exists inside a Staff.
 
Your metronome mark in the vocals was aligned with the beginning of the Voice, 
not the beginning of the Staff.
 
Your metronome mark in the PianoStaff aligned with the beginning of the Staff.
 
HTH,
 
Carl
 
 
From: Peter Toye 
Reply-To: Peter Toye 
Date: Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 9:29 AM
To: 
Subject: Misaligned tempo indications
 
\version "2.20.0"

\language "english"

\score {
  <<
\new Voice = "vocals"
\with {
  \consists "Metronome_mark_engraver"
}
{
  \clef "treble"
  \tempo "Andante"
  %
  \relative
  { c'4 c d d }
}

\new PianoStaff {
  <<
\new Staff
\with {
  \consists "Metronome_mark_engraver"
}
{
  \clef "treble"
  \tempo "Andante"
  \relative {
r4   r   |
  }
}
\new Staff {
  \clef "bass"
  \relative {
c2 g
  }
}
  >>
}
  >>

  \layout {
\context {
  \Score
  \remove "Metronome_mark_engraver"
}
  }

}

Misaligned tempo indications

[Peter Toye]

I'm trying to set a song and have the tempo indications on both vocal and piano 
staves. I used Hwaen Ch'uqi's suggestion from way back to get the correct 
engravers, but they aren't aligned correctly. Here's an MWE. Any ideas how to 
get them to align?

\version "2.20.0"

\language "english"

\score {
  <<
\new Voice = "vocals"
\with {
  \consists "Metronome_mark_engraver"
}
{
  \clef "treble"
  \tempo "Andante"
  %
  \relative
  { c'4 c d d }
}

\new PianoStaff {
  <<
\new Staff
\with {
  \consists "Metronome_mark_engraver"
}
{
  \clef "treble"
  \tempo "Andante"
  \relative {
r4   r   |
  }
}
\new Staff {
  \clef "bass"
  \relative {
c2 g
  }
}
  >>
}
  >>

  \layout {
\context {
  \Score
  \remove "Metronome_mark_engraver"
}
  }

}


 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Problems with Internals manual

[Peter Toye]

Robin,

Thanks. Fair enough. I guessed and experimented and got the result that I 
wanted. But I'm not quite sure how I managed it!

A problem I had with minimum-X-extent is that it's a pair, but the description 
describes it as a distance, which I'd have thought was a single number!

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 7:55:50 PM, Robin Bannister wrote:

> Peter Toye wrote:
>> I'm trying to work out what the properties of a LyricHyphen are, but the 
>> Internals manual for that object keeps referring to rests, notes. beams. 
>> stems, See, for example, the minimum-distance property. None of these, to my 
>> mind, have much to do with lyrics or hyphens. Has some text from another 
>> object wandered in here by mistake?

> Yes and no.
> I am afraid you are expecting too much of the Internals comments.
> These comments are not handcrafted for each object's page.

> https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.20/Documentation/notation/layout-properties
> lists all of these properties, and the comments there (have to) serve
> for all the different situations in which these
> property names are used.

> And there can be so many different situations,
> that no attempt is made 
> to mention and describe all of them.  Keeps maintenance costs down.

> Workarounds:
>- try guessing
>- search for usage examples
>- experiment
>- ask on this list
>- read the relevant source


> Sorry.  At least we get these nice lists for each object/interface.


> Cheers,
> Robin

Re: Acciaccatura giving errors

[Peter Toye]

Carl,

Yes, thanks. It's working OK.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 5:27:00 PM, Carl Sorensen wrote:


Yes, but that error was fixed in 2.20.
 
It has to do with a different number of bits in the floating point precision of 
the processor and of the data type.
 
2.20 should work for you.
 
Carl
 
 
From: Peter Toye 
Reply-To: Peter Toye 
Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 10:18 AM
To: Xavier Scheuer 
Cc: Carl Sorensen , lilypond-user Mailinglist 

Subject: Re: Acciaccatura giving errors
 
Xavier,

Ah, the problems of using a Linux-developed program on Windows.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 5:06:18 PM, Xavier Scheuer wrote:

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 at 17:31, Peter Toye  wrote:
>
> Thanks both. I've found the same now. I'd assumed that 2.21.0 would be later 
> than 2.20, but it seems not to be the case.
>
> Now sorted.

Hello,

IIRC some discussions on the mailing lists, "programming error: mis-predicted 
force" are Windows-only issues.
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2019-11/msg00400.html 

Cheers,
Xavier

--
Xavier Scheuer 
 

Problems with Internals manual

[Peter Toye]

I'm trying to work out what the properties of a LyricHyphen are, but the 
Internals manual for that object keeps referring to rests, notes. beams. stems, 
See, for example, the minimum-distance property. None of these, to my mind, 
have much to do with lyrics or hyphens. Has some text from another object 
wandered in here by mistake?
 
Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Acciaccatura giving errors

[Peter Toye]

Xavier,

Ah, the problems of using a Linux-developed program on Windows.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 5:06:18 PM, Xavier Scheuer wrote:


On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 at 17:31, Peter Toye  wrote:
>
> Thanks both. I've found the same now. I'd assumed that 2.21.0 would be later 
> than 2.20, but it seems not to be the case.
>
> Now sorted.

Hello,

IIRC some discussions on the mailing lists, "programming error: mis-predicted 
force" are Windows-only issues.
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2019-11/msg00400.html  

Cheers,
Xavier

-- 
Xavier Scheuer 

Re: Acciaccatura giving errors

[Peter Toye]

Thanks both. I've found the same now. I'd assumed that 2.21.0 would be later 
than 2.20, but it seems not to be the case. 

Now sorted.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 2:41:45 PM, Robin Bannister wrote:

> Peter Toye wrote:
>> An acciaccatura is giving 14 "programming error: mis-predicted force" errors 
>> and corrupt layout. The former I can live with the latter I can't.

> .
> .
>> I've tried to produce an MWE, and one is appended, but it doesn't show the 
>> layout errors which for me are a complete show-stopper. It's a slightly out 
>> of date version of LilyPond

> I see "mis-predicted force" with 2.19.80 and 2.19.83
> but not with 2.19.84 or 2.20.0


> Cheers,
> Robin

Re: Acciaccatura giving errors

[Peter Toye]

Thanks Robin.

Interesting. I tried it with 2.21.0 and the problem is still there. I'll get 
hold of 2.20.0 but am a bit busy at the moment.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 2:41:45 PM, Robin Bannister wrote:

> Peter Toye wrote:
>> An acciaccatura is giving 14 "programming error: mis-predicted force" errors 
>> and corrupt layout. The former I can live with the latter I can't.

> .
> .
>> I've tried to produce an MWE, and one is appended, but it doesn't show the 
>> layout errors which for me are a complete show-stopper. It's a slightly out 
>> of date version of LilyPond

> I see "mis-predicted force" with 2.19.80 and 2.19.83
> but not with 2.19.84 or 2.20.0


> Cheers,
> Robin

Acciaccatura giving errors

[Peter Toye]

An acciaccatura is giving 14 "programming error: mis-predicted force" errors 
and corrupt layout. The former I can live with the latter I can't.

The layout errors in the complete score are extremely wide spaces between the 
systems and a line with an extremely wide right margin on the page with the 
offending acciaccatura.

I've tried to produce an MWE, and one is appended, but it doesn't show the 
layout errors which for me are a complete show-stopper. It's a slightly out of 
date version of LilyPond, but I'm also having trouble using convert-ly in 
Frescobaldi.

\version "2.19.52"

\language "english"

\score {
  
  \transpose c a,   % * comment out this line and it works OK

  \new Staff = "PianoLH" {
\clef "bass"
\relative {

  \time 4/4

  \clef "treble"% * comment this out and it's OK

  c'1 
  \clef "bass"
  \resetRelativeOctave a,,
  \acciaccatura a8 c'1|
  c1

  % * comment out the following text and get fewer errors
 %%{
  {
c1 c c c
  }
%}
} 
  }

  \layout {
  }
}



 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: convert-ly is adding newlines

[Peter Toye]

Xavier,

Via Frescobaldi version 3.1.2. Thanks for the links. It seems to be a 
Frescobaldi issue. What a pain.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 11:20:42 AM, Xavier Scheuer wrote:


On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 at 11:19, Peter Toye  wrote:
>
> I've just used convert-ly to convert 2.19.2 to 2.21.0. And an extra newline 
> (x0D0A) has been added to every line. Odd, though, two consecutive newlines 
> are replaced by three. This is obviously a bit of a pain - any way of 
> stopping it?
>
> I'm on Windows 10, which may well be significant.

Hi Peter,

Are you running convert-ly directly via the command line or in Frescobaldi?
Several reports on lilypond-user and lilypond-user-fr mention this issue on 
Windows, but only when running in Frescobaldi.

https://github.com/frescobaldi/frescobaldi/issues/880#issuecomment-599236580  
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2020-03/msg00115.html 
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user-fr/2020-05/msg00214.html

Cheers,
Xavier

-- 
Xavier Scheuer 

Re: Free rhythm in part of a bar

[Peter Toye]

Mark,

I'm not quite sure what you mean here.  A spacer takes the same musical time as 
a rest. So replacing 'r2' by 's2' still gives the barcheck error. Or am I being 
thick?

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Sunday, June 14, 2020, 6:51:59 PM, Mark Stephen Mrotek wrote:


Peter,
 
Lilypond with always give a bar check error when this is done.
The bass has a total of 6 beats (with the inserted half rest) in a 4/4 measure.
If you replace the rest with spacers the bar check error goes away.
 
Mark
 
“You can have everything you want, you just have everything at the same time.”
 
From: Peter Toye [mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com] 
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2020 3:22 AM
To: Mark Stephen Mrotek ; 'David Kastrup' 
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Free rhythm in part of a bar
 
Mark,

Thanks. That looks fine, but still gives a barcheck error

C:/Users/Peter/AppData/Local/Temp/frescobaldi-cucdco98/tmp7auq80jw/document.ly:17:35:
 warning: barcheck failed at: 1/2
4 4 s4*2 r2\fermata s4 c'4 c'

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Saturday, June 13, 2020, 6:07:03 PM, Mark Stephen Mrotek wrote:

Peter,
 
Below is a modification of my original suggestion that allows for the bass to 
be aligned with notes after the cadenze.
 
Mark
 
\version "2.19.83"
\score {
<<
   \new Staff {
   \time 4/4
   {
c'4 4 4 4 |
\cadenzaOn 4 4 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 \cadenzaOff c'4 c' \bar "|"
}
}
 
\new Staff {
  \time 4/4
  \clef "bass"
  {
c1
4 4 s4*2 r2\fermata s4 c'4 c' |
  }
}
>>
}
 
From: lilypond-user [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] 
On Behalf Of Peter Toye
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 2:55 AM
To: David Kastrup 
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Free rhythm in part of a bar
 
David,

In this example the first two notes of the bass should synchronise with the 
first two notes of the treble. And they do. My question was what to do in a 
more complicated situation.

But as Christian has solved the problem I think we can stop here, unless you're 
thinking of adding more functionality to the \cadenza construction, in which 
case I'm happy to oblige. I have other problems to see to (a new post will 
arrive shortly when I've written it)!

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Saturday, June 13, 2020, 9:45:08 AM, David Kastrup wrote:

> Peter Toye  writes:

>> David,

>> What I mean is that in some music the end of the 'free rhythm' section
>> may need to be synchronised with the other staves. For instance, at
>> the end of a florid passage for a soloist in free rhythm, the last few
>> notes may need to coincide with an accompaniment. The \cadenza
>> keywords don't seem to handle this. Would you like an example or have
>> I explained it well enough now?

> You posted an example.  What in the bass of the example should
> synchronise where?
 

convert-ly is adding newlines

[Peter Toye]

I've just used convert-ly to convert 2.19.2 to 2.21.0. And an extra newline 
(x0D0A) has been added to every line. Odd, though, two consecutive newlines are 
replaced by three. This is obviously a bit of a pain - any way of stopping it?

I'm on Windows 10, which may well be significant.

 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Free rhythm in part of a bar

[Peter Toye]

Mark,

Thanks. That looks fine, but still gives a barcheck error

C:/Users/Peter/AppData/Local/Temp/frescobaldi-cucdco98/tmp7auq80jw/document.ly:17:35:
 warning: barcheck failed at: 1/2
4 4 s4*2 r2\fermata s4 c'4 c' 

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Saturday, June 13, 2020, 6:07:03 PM, Mark Stephen Mrotek wrote:


Peter,
 
Below is a modification of my original suggestion that allows for the bass to 
be aligned with notes after the cadenze.
 
Mark
 
\version "2.19.83"
\score {
<< 
   \new Staff {
   \time 4/4
   {
c'4 4 4 4 |
\cadenzaOn 4 4 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 \cadenzaOff c'4 c' \bar "|" 
}
}
 
\new Staff {
  \time 4/4
  \clef "bass"
  {
c1
4 4 s4*2 r2\fermata s4 c'4 c' |
  }
}
>> 
}
 
From: lilypond-user [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] 
On Behalf Of Peter Toye
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 2:55 AM
To: David Kastrup 
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Free rhythm in part of a bar
 
David,

In this example the first two notes of the bass should synchronise with the 
first two notes of the treble. And they do. My question was what to do in a 
more complicated situation.

But as Christian has solved the problem I think we can stop here, unless you're 
thinking of adding more functionality to the \cadenza construction, in which 
case I'm happy to oblige. I have other problems to see to (a new post will 
arrive shortly when I've written it)!

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Saturday, June 13, 2020, 9:45:08 AM, David Kastrup wrote:

> Peter Toye  writes:

>> David,

>> What I mean is that in some music the end of the 'free rhythm' section
>> may need to be synchronised with the other staves. For instance, at
>> the end of a florid passage for a soloist in free rhythm, the last few
>> notes may need to coincide with an accompaniment. The \cadenza
>> keywords don't seem to handle this. Would you like an example or have
>> I explained it well enough now?

> You posted an example.  What in the bass of the example should
> synchronise where?

Re: Free rhythm in part of a bar

[Peter Toye]

David,

No, because i was trying to produce (1) a minimal example for the case that the 
free rhythm passage ends at the bar end, and (2) in words only, a hypothetical 
example where it doesn't. I obviously wasn't clear enough about the two cases.

So here's a rather longer one. the top score is a development of the original 
example, the bottom one shows what happens in my second case, where the final 
crochets of each staff should align. In both cases the bass line counting goes 
wrong.

I've tried putting the free rhythm section in parallel with a silent note, with 
the intention of making sure that there was a proper duration for the section. 
This gives interesting results: the accompaniment gives a barcheck error even 
though the durations of the notes in that staff are correct. If you comment out 
the melody line there's no error. So there's obviously some interaction between 
the free rhythm section and other staves. Also, if you replace the final 'e' in 
the melody by 'R1' the rest goes in the wrong place.

\language "english"

\version "2.19.83"

\score {
 <<

\new Staff {
   \time 4/4
   {
%%{
c'4 4 4 4 |
4 4 << {\cadenzaOn d'8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 \cadenzaOff} s2 >> \bar "|"
e'1
%}
   }
 }

 \new Staff {
  \time 4/4
  \clef "bass"
  {
c1
c4 4 r2\fermata |
c1
  }
 }
 >>
}

\score {
 <<
   \new Staff {
   \time 4/4
   {
%%{   
c'4 4 4 4 |
4 4 << {\cadenzaOn d'8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 \cadenzaOff} s4 >> g'4  \bar "|" 
e'1
%}
   }
 }
 \new Staff {
  \time 4/4
  \clef "bass"
  {
c1
c4 4 r4\fermata g,4 |
c1
  }
 }
 >>
}

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Saturday, June 13, 2020, 1:13:07 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

> Peter Toye  writes:

>> David,

>> The half note rest is because it's basically a 4/4 bar, so it needs to
>> align with the start of the free rhythm. Here's a screenshot.

> The screenshot has nothing whatsoever to do
> with your example.  In your
> example, the melody voice has three bars and the bass voice has two
> bars.  You don't explain how the two bars
> should fit the three bars.

Re: How to align text in a whole-bar rest?

[Peter Toye]

Xavier,

D'oh!!! Silly me. My brain isn't working today. Thanks.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Saturday, June 13, 2020, 12:39:31 PM, Xavier Scheuer wrote:


On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 at 12:37, Peter Toye  wrote:
>
> I'm trying to add text which needs to be aligned with certain notes in the 
> accompaniment above a vocal staff which has a whole-bar rest, and can't work 
> out a suitable easy way to do it. The attachment shows what's needed. I want 
> to align the text with the second half of the bar.
>
> The only way I've found is to add another \dynamic staff for these expression 
> marks. Is there a better way?

Hello Peter,

<< R2. { s4. s4.^\markup \italic "poco rall." } >>

Cheers,
Xavier

-- 
Xavier Scheuer 

How to align text in a whole-bar rest?

[Peter Toye]

I'm trying to add text which needs to be aligned with certain notes in the 
accompaniment above a vocal staff which has a whole-bar rest, and can't work 
out a suitable easy way to do it. The attachment shows what's needed. I want to 
align the text with the second half of the bar.

The only way I've found is to add another \dynamic staff for these expression 
marks. Is there a better way?
 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Free rhythm in part of a bar

[Peter Toye]

David,

The half note rest is because it's basically a 4/4 bar, so it needs to align 
with the start of the free rhythm. Here's a screenshot.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Saturday, June 13, 2020, 11:18:13 AM, David Kastrup wrote:

> Peter Toye  writes:

>> David,

>> In this example the first two notes of the bass should synchronise
>> with the first two notes of the treble. And they do. My question was
>> what to do in a more complicated situation.

> What with the rest of the bass?  It ends in a half note.  The melody
> ends in a full bar rest.  Where should that half note align to?

>>>> What I mean is that in some music the end of the 'free rhythm' section
>>>> may need to be synchronised with the other staves. For instance, at
>>>> the end of a florid passage for a soloist in free rhythm, the last few
>>>> notes may need to coincide with an accompaniment. The \cadenza
>>>> keywords don't seem to handle this. Would you like an example or have
>>>> I explained it well enough now?

>>> You posted an example.  What in the bass of the example should
>>> synchronise where?

Re: Free rhythm in part of a barpa

[Peter Toye]

Mark,

Hmmm. That gives me a bar check failure!

C:/Users/Peter/AppData/Local/Temp/frescobaldi-samod0cp/tmp94ybz3e6/document.ly:18:30:
 warning: barcheck failed at: 3/4
4 4 s4*2 r2\fermata s4*4 
|

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, June 12, 2020, 7:48:11 PM, Mark Stephen Mrotek wrote:


Peter,
 
From trial and error I learned, if a cadenza is started mid-measure (say on the 
second of four beats), then Lilypond want to start the nest meterd part on the 
third beat.
The solution is to star the cadenza on the first beat of the measure.
As to the bass it can be “fudged” with a number of spacers equal to the 
duration of the cadenza.
 
Here is my code:
 
\language "english"
\version "2.19.83"
\score {
<<
   \new Staff {
   \time 4/4
   {
c'4 4 4 4 |
\cadenzaOn 4 4 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 \cadenzaOff \bar "|" 
R1   }
}
 
\new Staff {
  \time 4/4
  \clef "bass"
  {
c1
4 4 s4*2 r2\fermata s4*4 |
  }
}
>>
}
 
Mark
 
From: lilypond-user [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] 
On Behalf Of Peter Toye
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 7:26 AM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Free rhythm in part of a bar
 
I need to have part only of a bar notated with free rhythm. Also other staves 
need to be synchronised. I've tried using \cadenzaOn but then I get a barcheck 
problem and the next bar goes odd. I can't see anything about this in the 
snippets or manuals. A minimal example follows.

There seem to be two issues:

1) How do I get the desired result, which is one bar with the first 2 crotchets 
synchronised with the bass, and the rest unsynchronised?

2) This isn't in the example, but what if I want a free section within a bar, 
but synchronised accompaniment at the beginning and end of the bar (e.g. a 
chord on the final note of a cadenza).

\language "english"

\version "2.19.83"

\score {

 <<
   \new Staff {
   \time 4/4
   {
c'4 4 4 4 |
4 4 \cadenzaOn 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8  \bar "|" \cadenzaOff
R1
   }
 }

 \new Staff {
  \time 4/4
  \clef "bass"
  {
c1
4 4 r2\fermata |
  }

 }

 >>

}
Thanks in advance,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Free rhythm in part of a bar

[Peter Toye]

David,

In this example the first two notes of the bass should synchronise with the 
first two notes of the treble. And they do. My question was what to do in a 
more complicated situation.

But as Christian has solved the problem I think we can stop here, unless you're 
thinking of adding more functionality to the \cadenza construction, in which 
case I'm happy to oblige. I have other problems to see to (a new post will 
arrive shortly when I've written it)!

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Saturday, June 13, 2020, 9:45:08 AM, David Kastrup wrote:

> Peter Toye  writes:

>> David,

>> What I mean is that in some music the end of the 'free rhythm' section
>> may need to be synchronised with the other staves. For instance, at
>> the end of a florid passage for a soloist in free rhythm, the last few
>> notes may need to coincide with an accompaniment. The \cadenza
>> keywords don't seem to handle this. Would you like an example or have
>> I explained it well enough now?

> You posted an example.  What in the bass of the example should
> synchronise where?

Re: Free rhythm in part of a bar

[Peter Toye]

Hi Christian,

That works fine for me too. I thought I was being stupid in not working out how 
to use the \cadenza keywords, but it seems I wasn't. 

Thanks.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, June 12, 2020, 3:52:49 PM, Christian Masser wrote:


Hi Peter!

I don't know if that's the correct way to do it, but if you use \scaleDurations 
on the cadenza material it seems to work out for me:

   {
c'4 4 4 4 |
4 4 \scaleDurations 2/5 { 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 } |
   }

The '2/5'-part depends of course on the length of the material inside.

All the best
Christian

Am Fr., 12. Juni 2020 um 16:34 Uhr schrieb Peter Toye :

I need to have part only of a bar notated with free rhythm. Also other staves 
need to be synchronised. I've tried using \cadenzaOn but then I get a barcheck 
problem and the next bar goes odd. I can't see anything about this in the 
snippets or manuals. A minimal example follows.

There seem to be two issues:

1) How do I get the desired result, which is one bar with the first 2 crotchets 
synchronised with the bass, and the rest unsynchronised?

2) This isn't in the example, but what if I want a free section within a bar, 
but synchronised accompaniment at the beginning and end of the bar (e.g. a 
chord on the final note of a cadenza).

\language "english"

\version "2.19.83"

\score {

 <<
   \new Staff {
   \time 4/4
   {
c'4 4 4 4 |
4 4 \cadenzaOn 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8  \bar "|" \cadenzaOff
R1
   }
 }

 \new Staff {
  \time 4/4
  \clef "bass"
  {
c1
4 4 r2\fermata |
  }

 }

 >>

}
Thanks in advance,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Free rhythm in part of a bar

[Peter Toye]

David,

What I mean is that in some music the end of the 'free rhythm' section may need 
to be synchronised with the other staves. For instance, at the end of a florid 
passage for a soloist in free rhythm, the last few notes may need to coincide 
with an accompaniment. The \cadenza  keywords don't seem to handle this. Would 
you like an example or have I explained it well enough now?

Christian Masser's idea works OK. It just need a bit of counting but that's no 
great issue.

I thought I was being stupid in not being able to use \cadenza, but it seems I 
wasn't.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, June 12, 2020, 5:11:58 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

> Peter Toye  writes:

>> David,

>> Thanks. That solves the vocal line, but it doesn't seem to solve the
>> synchronisation issue with the accompaniment, which is rather
>> necessary in a song!

> To quote: "1) How do I get the desired result,
> which is one bar with the
> first 2 crotchets synchronised with the bass, and the rest
> unsynchronised?"

> Can you explain what you mean by
> "unsynchronised"?  Stuff just doesn't
> add up.  Your vocal line ends with a full bar
> rest, your accompagniment
> ends with a half rest.  You want stuff to have synchronisation but be
> unsynchronised.

> You can insert \skip 8*14 (for example) in the bass but I have no idea
> whatsoever what you actually want.

Re: Free rhythm in part of a bar

[Peter Toye]

David,

Thanks. That solves the vocal line, but it doesn't seem to solve the 
synchronisation issue with the accompaniment, which is rather necessary in a 
song!

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, June 12, 2020, 4:31:18 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

> Peter Toye  writes:

>> I need to have part only of a bar notated with free rhythm. Also other 
>> staves need to be synchronised. I've tried using \cadenzaOn but then I get a 
>> barcheck problem and the next bar goes odd. I can't see anything about this 
>> in the snippets or manuals. A minimal example follows.

>> There seem to be two issues:

>> 1) How do I get the desired result, which is one bar with the first 2 
>> crotchets synchronised with the bass, and the rest unsynchronised?

>> 2) This isn't in the example, but what if I want a free section within a 
>> bar, but synchronised accompaniment at the beginning and end of the bar 
>> (e.g. a chord on the final note of a cadenza).

>> \language "english"

>> \version "2.19.83"

>> \score {

>>  <<
>>\new Staff {
>>\time 4/4
>>{
>> c'4 4 4 4 |
>> 4 4 \cadenzaOn 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8  \bar "|" \cadenzaOff
>> R1
>>}
>>  }

>>  \new Staff {
>>   \time 4/4
>>   \clef "bass"
>>   {
>> c1
>> 4 4 r2\fermata |
>>   }

>>  }

>>  >>

>> } 
>> Thanks in advance,

> Switch off before the last note of the cadenza. That's not particularly
> great but works.

Free rhythm in part of a bar

[Peter Toye]

I need to have part only of a bar notated with free rhythm. Also other staves 
need to be synchronised. I've tried using \cadenzaOn but then I get a barcheck 
problem and the next bar goes odd. I can't see anything about this in the 
snippets or manuals. A minimal example follows.

There seem to be two issues:

1) How do I get the desired result, which is one bar with the first 2 crotchets 
synchronised with the bass, and the rest unsynchronised?

2) This isn't in the example, but what if I want a free section within a bar, 
but synchronised accompaniment at the beginning and end of the bar (e.g. a 
chord on the final note of a cadenza).

\language "english"

\version "2.19.83"

\score {

 <<
   \new Staff {
   \time 4/4
   {
c'4 4 4 4 |
4 4 \cadenzaOn 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8  \bar "|" \cadenzaOff
R1
   }
 }

 \new Staff {
  \time 4/4
  \clef "bass"
  {
c1
4 4 r2\fermata |
  }

 }

 >>

} 
Thanks in advance,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Goodbye

[Peter Toye]

Circumstances dictate that I will no longer be doing any music engraving. So I 
would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone here for their help, 
enthusiasm, expertise and, above all, patience in answering my questions.
 
Happy Ponding,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: New release

[Peter Toye]

Thursday, February 6, 2020, 5:29:00 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

> Peter Toye  writes:

>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2020 17:57:20 +0100
>>> From: David Kastrup 
>>> To: Gianmaria Lari 
>>> Cc: Phil Holmes ,  LilyPond User Group
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: New release
>>> Message-ID: <87mu9vejrj@fencepost.gnu.org>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain

>>> Gianmaria Lari  writes:

>>>> Hello Phil,

>>>> I downloaded and I'm trying to install the windows version.

>>>> Is it normal that 2.19.84 version tries to install itself it in the old
>>>> folder "LilyPond2.19.83"?

>>>> Have a look to the attached screenshot.

>>> I suspect that it just tries installing into
>>> the same directory that you
>>> directed it to install to with the last
>>> invocation.  That this contains
>>> a version string is not detected.  It would
>>> likely be an interesting
>>> change to the installer to search for such
>>> patterns and replace them,
>>> but since the installer is not generic to LilyPond but a
>>> Windows-specific GUB component, that change
>>> would likely require some
>>> knowledgable surgery.  Alternatively I am not
>>> sure whether Frescobaldi
>>> does not offer a means to download and install LilyPond versions.

>> I've just had a quick look at Frescobaldi and can't see anything on
>> its menus which implies that you can install Lilypond. Unless it's
>> well hidden.

> I think you are right; at least I cannot find anything like that in
> 3.0.0.  I thought that this was being discussed at some time, but I
> don't know what the conclusion or any resulting action was.

I'm stll on 2.20.0

Peter

Re: New release

[Peter Toye]

> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2020 17:57:20 +0100
> From: David Kastrup 
> To: Gianmaria Lari 
> Cc: Phil Holmes ,  LilyPond User Group
> 
> Subject: Re: New release
> Message-ID: <87mu9vejrj@fencepost.gnu.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain

> Gianmaria Lari  writes:

>> Hello Phil,

>> I downloaded and I'm trying to install the windows version.

>> Is it normal that 2.19.84 version tries to install itself it in the old
>> folder "LilyPond2.19.83"?

>> Have a look to the attached screenshot.

> I suspect that it just tries installing into
> the same directory that you
> directed it to install to with the last
> invocation.  That this contains
> a version string is not detected.  It would
> likely be an interesting
> change to the installer to search for such
> patterns and replace them,
> but since the installer is not generic to LilyPond but a
> Windows-specific GUB component, that change
> would likely require some
> knowledgable surgery.  Alternatively I am not
> sure whether Frescobaldi
> does not offer a means to download and install LilyPond versions.

I've just had a quick look at Frescobaldi and can't see anything on its menus 
which implies that you can install Lilypond. Unless it's well hidden.

Peter

Re: align aftergraces

[Peter Toye]

> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 08:38:22 -0800
> From: "Mark Stephen Mrotek" 
> To: 
> Subject: align aftergraces
> Message-ID:
> <001e01d5c31d$613aa980$23affc80$@ca.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> Hello all,
>  
> In the following, the two aftergraces do not align.
>  
> Thank you.
>  
> Mark
>  
> \version "2.19.49"
> \score {
>   \new PianoStaff  <<
> \new Staff = "upper"
> \relative c'' {
> r2 \afterGrace 15/16 d\startTrillSpan {c16\stopTrillSpan (d)}
> }   
> \new Staff = "lower"  
> \relative c {
> \clef bass
> r2 r4 \afterGrace 15/16 f\trill {e16 (f)}
> 
> 

That's bcause  the 15/16 isn't a duration - it's the fraction of the main note 
length. Change the 2nd one to 7/8 and it works fine.

All the best,

Peter

> }

Re: How does one get rid of a tagline?

[Peter Toye]

No, but I thought it was in the bookpart where I don’t want the tagline.

However, I found that when editing the header I moved the included music file 
outside the bookpart  (too many %{'s), so LP thought it was a separate score. 
Now I've moved it to the right place it's fine.

Thanks for the idea - it put me on the right track.

Have a good Christmas,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, December 24, 2019, 4:04:49 PM, Hwaen Ch'uqi wrote:

> Greetings Peter,

> Are you placing `tagline = ##f' in the uppermost \paper block?

> Hwaen Ch'uqi


> On 12/24/19, Peter Toye  wrote:
>> I want an absolutely clean end to a score, but whatever I try I still get a
>> tagline advertising LilyPond. I've tried setting tagline to ##f and "" and
>> neither works.

>> Don't worry, it's for piano 4-hands so LilyPond gets its advertising on the
>> Primo page.


>> Regards,

>> Peter
>> mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
>> www.ptoye.com

How does one get rid of a tagline?

[Peter Toye]

I want an absolutely clean end to a score, but whatever I try I still get a 
tagline advertising LilyPond. I've tried setting tagline to ##f and "" and 
neither works.

Don't worry, it's for piano 4-hands so LilyPond gets its advertising on the 
Primo page.

 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: A suggestion - add rf to built-in dynamics

[Peter Toye]

Sunday, December 22, 2019, 4:12:42 PM, Malte Meyn wrote:



> Am 22.12.19 um 13:23 schrieb Peter Toye:
>> I 
>> agree about \sp and \spp - what on earth are they meant to mean - a 
>> sudden quiet note in the middle of louder ones? Not a common musical 
>> gesture.
> Maybe they mean “subito piano” and “subito
> pianissimo”? Then they would 
> not be for only a single not like an accent
> (fz, sf, …) but for all 
> future notes like a regular “piano”, just with an additional “don’t
> decresc. before this”. But that’s only me guessing …
Possible. New Oxford hasn't heard of them.
The point about sf, fz, sfz, rf, rfz is that they are abbreviations of normal 
words according to my Italian dictionary (not a language I speak).

Re: A suggestion - add rf to built-in dynamics

[Peter Toye]

Andrew, Malte,

Thanks for the opposing views!

Andrew, my point was that if two extremely well-known composers use a dynamic 
symbol, it's hardly non-standard, which is why I think it should be included 
even if it is a synonym for rfz.

Malte, I think I've seen all of these (but I can't remember where I saw pf - 
was it Mozart somewhere?) but extremely rarely. Schubert has fffz - how he 
managed that on an 1820s piano without breaking it I can't imagine. I wouldn’t 
suggest adding this though as it's very rare. I agree about \sp and \spp - what 
on earth are they meant to mean - a sudden quiet note in the middle of louder 
ones? Not a common musical gesture.


Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Sunday, December 22, 2019, 6:06:01 AM, lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org wrote:

> Send lilypond-user mailing list submissions to
> lilypond-user@gnu.org

> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org

> You can reach the person managing the list at
> lilypond-user-ow...@gnu.org

> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of lilypond-user digest..."


> Today's Topics:

>1. Re: convert-ly problems (Knute Snortum)
>2. Re: A suggestion - add rf to built-in
> dynamics (Andrew Bernard)
>3. Re: Notes or chords sustained with a pedal (David R)
>4. Re: Notes or chords sustained with a pedal (Aaron Hill)


> --

> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 14:45:06 -0800
> From: Knute Snortum 
> To: peter.gen...@sunscales.co.uk
> Cc: Lilypond Users 
> Subject: Re: convert-ly problems
> Message-ID:
>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

-->>C:\"Program Files (x86)"\LilyPond\usr\bin\python.exe<--

> This looks like the quotes are in the wrong place.

> ---
> Knute Snortum
> (via Gmail)

> On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 4:32 AM Peter Gentry
>  wrote:

>> I spoke too soon.



>> C:\WINDOWS\system32>convert-ly



>> C:\WINDOWS\system32>C:\"Program Files (x86)"\LilyPond\usr\bin\python.exe 
>> C:\"Program Files (x86)"\LilyPond\usr\bin\convert-ly.py

>> C:\Program Files (x86)\LilyPond\usr\bin\python.exe: can't open file 
>> 'C:"Program': [Errno 22] Invalid argument



>> C:\WINDOWS\system32>



>> This did work first time but now another wonderful windows surprise.

















>> From: Peter Gentry 
>> Sent: 21 December 2019 12:02
>> To: Lilypond Users (lilypond-user@gnu.org) 
>> Cc: 'ksnor...@gmail.com' 
>> Subject: convert-ly problems



>> Thanks Knute



>> However the problem for windows (as usual) is more difficult.  In addition 
>> to the PATH I needed the following to set up the association.

>> First get check the associated name of the python file type.

>> In an admin command prompt run the following

>> assoc {Python} result  “no association……”

>> I created one

>> Python="C:\Program Files (x86)\LilyPond\usr\bin\python.exe" "%1"

>> Now I look in Default Apps and there is PYTHON

>> SUCCESS!

>> Now convert-ly.py works



>> I could have use something Lily specific as the association PYTHONLILY say 
>> maybe I will later.



>> I expect I will have to do something similar if I go back to PYTHON  proper.



>> Isn’t Windows wonderful 



>> Regards Peter





> --

> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2019 10:23:46 +1100
> From: Andrew Bernard 
> To: lilypond-user Mailinglist 
> Subject: Re: A suggestion - add rf to built-in dynamics
> Message-ID:
>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

> Hi Peter,

> Well I have a library file with over 150 custom dynamics, for use with
> engraving new complexity school scores. It's a big file, with all
> sorts of rare dynamics. I see no need to push non-standard or rare
> dynamics on everybody. Just make an include file for your score and
> add 'rf'. One could argue that the original
> composers are in error, or
> it's an obsolete convention, and perhaps this would mislead modern
> players anyway (the infinite discussion of the urtext!).

> I don't see a need for rf to be added to the core set.

> [And amusingly I have  all the ones Malte
> suggested. and lots of marks
> like 'f (poco)' and similar which is actually commonly found, and yet
> does not need to be in the core.]


> Andrew

> On Sat, 21 Dec 2

Re: A suggestion - add rf to built-in dynamics

[Peter Toye]

Saturday, December 21, 2019, 1:04:09 PM, Kieren MacMillan wrote:

> Hi Peter,

>> May I suggest adding 'rf' to the built-in dynamics? Beethoven and Brahms 
>> used it quite a lot, even if it is synonymous with 'rfz' (pedants might 
>> disagree).

> Is f the same as fz?
f=forte, fz=forzando or sforzando.. rf=rfz=rinforzando (Source: The New Oxford 
Companion to Music)

>> A far as I can see, it just needs adding
>> rfz = #(make-dynamic-script "rfz")
>> to dynamic-scripts-init.ly

> You could always submit a patch!  =)
When I've worked out how to do it. Also, the documentation will have to be 
upgraded.
I'm windows-based which, looking at the CG, is not a good starting place for 
patching.

> Cheers,
> Kieren.
> 

> Kieren MacMillan, composer (he/him/his)
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info

All the best,

Peter

A suggestion - add rf to built-in dynamics

[Peter Toye]

May I suggest adding 'rf' to the built-in dynamics? Beethoven and Brahms used 
it quite a lot, even if it is synonymous with 'rfz' (pedants might disagree). 
As did some other, lesser, composers (one of whose music I am currently 
engraving).

A far as I can see, it just needs adding 

rfz = #(make-dynamic-script "rfz")

to dynamic-scripts-init.ly

There's an easy workaround of course - just put that line somewhere in your own 
music, but to me it seems as though it's common enough to build it into 
LilyPond.

 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: How to avoid dynamic clashes?

[Peter Toye]

Hello Kieren,

Yes it does. So does Phil's solution. I now have to work out which I prefer in 
this particular situation.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, December 20, 2019, 4:14:06 PM, Kieren MacMillan wrote:

> Hi Peter,

>> I'm trying to set a score where dynamic words are too close together for 
>> beautiful typesetting. I've tried using offsets to move one of them 
>> vertically, but they don't seem to work. What's the best way of setting this 
>> to produce a good-looking result?

> I’d force the notes themselves apart:

>   \temporary \override
> NoteHead.extra-spacing-width = #'(0 . 5) c16 16
> 16 16 \revert NoteHead.extra-spacing-width
>   c16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16
> 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16

> Hope that helps!
> Kieren.
> 

> Kieren MacMillan, composer (he/him/his)
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info

Re: How to avoid dynamic clashes?

[Peter Toye]

Thanks Phil. I was looking in the 'spacing issues' section. Just what I need 
for this particular score.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, December 20, 2019, 4:26:46 PM, Phil Holmes wrote:


If you read about dynamics in the NR, it says: "Vertical positioning of 
dynamics is handled by Section ?DynamicLineSpanner? in InternalsReference."   
Looking in the IR we see reference to Y-offset.  So this does as you wish, I 
think:
 
\score {
   <<
 \new Staff   {
   \clef "bass"
   c16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 
16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16
 }
 \new Dynamics {
   \once \override DynamicTextSpanner.style = #'none
   \once \override DynamicLineSpanner.Y-offset = #2
   s16\cresc s16\dim s4\!
 }
   >>
 }

--
Phil Holmes
 

How to avoid dynamic clashes?

[Peter Toye]

I'm trying to set a score where dynamic words are too close together for 
beautiful typesetting. I've tried using offsets to move one of them vertically, 
but they don't seem to work. What's the best way of setting this to produce a 
good-looking result?

\version "2.19.83"

\score {
  <<
\new Staff   {
  \clef "bass"
  c16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 
16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16
}
\new Dynamics {
  \once \override DynamicTextSpanner.style = #'none
  \once \override DynamicText.extra-offset = #'( 0 . -3)
  s16\cresc s16\dim s4\!
}
  >>
}

 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: How to use make-music?

[Peter Toye]

David,

Thanks for this. I'm obviously going to have to dust off my LISP lectures from 
1967!

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, December 20, 2019, 12:41:31 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

> Peter Toye  writes:

>> Thee are many examples of the use of the make-music function in NR and
>> Snippets, but I cannot find any reference to its definition in LR, NR
>> or IR. I can use the examples to do what I want, but I'd like to know
>> a bit more about how it works. Is there a definition of it and its
>> parameters anywhere (apart from delving into the code)?

> Sometimes delving in the code just to discover
> comment strings/comments
> is not the worst idea with LilyPond.

> scm/define-music-types.scm:

> (define-safe-public (make-music name . music-properties)
>   "Create a music object of given name, and set its properties
> according to @code{music-properties}, a list of
> alternating property symbols
> and values. E.g:
> @example
>   (make-music 'OverrideProperty
>   'symbol 'Stem
>   'grob-property 'thickness
>   'grob-value (* 2 1.5))
> @end example
> Instead of a successive symbol and value, an entry in the list may
> also be an alist or a music object in which case its elements,
> respectively its @emph{mutable} property list
> (properties not inherent
> to the type of the music object) will get taken.

> The argument list will be interpreted
> left-to-right, so later entries
> override earlier ones."

How to use make-music?

[Peter Toye]

Thee are many examples of the use of the make-music function in NR and 
Snippets, but I cannot find any reference to its definition in LR, NR or IR. I 
can use the examples to do what I want, but I'd like to know a bit more about 
how it works. Is there a definition of it and its parameters anywhere (apart 
from delving into the code)?

 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

Re: Bar lines within bars inhibit bar numbering

[Peter Toye]

Hi Timothy,

Just done a bit more poking around. According to Internals, 
all-bar-numbers-visible  shows all bar numbers including the first one, but it 
doesn't seem to as the first bar number isn't printed (not that I want it). I 
also tried first-bar-number-invisible but that gave the same effect (which I'd 
have expected). Odd.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Thursday, December 12, 2019, 5:10:26 PM, Timothy Lanfear wrote:


Adding the layout block will number partial bars in brackets.

\version "2.19.83"
  
\language "english"

\layout {
  \context { \Score barNumberVisibility = #all-bar-numbers-visible }
}

\score {
  \new Staff {
\clef "treble"
\time 4/4
{
  \override BarNumber.break-visibility = ##(#t #t #t)
  c''1 2 \bar "||" \break
  \key f \major
  f'2
  f'1 1 \break
  1 1
}
  }
}




On 12/12/2019 16:39, Rick Kimpel wrote:


Peter
You need an extra #
\override BarNumber.break-visibility = ##(#t #t #t)

But that doesn't do what you're talking about. I had something similar in a 
piece with 4/4 + 3/4 time with a dotted barline. I ended up just manually 
renumbering the bars numbers with: 
\set Score.currentBarNumber
Probably not the solution you're looking for.


From: lilypond-user  on 
behalf of Peter Toye 
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 10:04 AM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org 
Subject: Bar lines within bars inhibit bar numbering 
 
The example below shows the issue. The mid-bar line with a \break does not show 
the bar number at the beginning of the next line - I would expect '2'. A \break 
at the end of a bar gives the expected result.

Also, the commented out line doesn't compile, and I can't see why, so can't see 
if it would make a difference. I cut-and-pasted the vector from the manual, but 
that's what the complier seems to be complaining about.
 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

\version "2.19.83"

\language "english"

\score {
  \new Staff {
\clef "treble"
\time 4/4
{
  %\override BarNumber.break-visibility = #(#t #t #t)
  c''1 2 \bar "||" \break
  \key f \major
  f'2
  f'1 1 \break
  1 1
}
  }
}
-- 
Timothy Lanfear, Bristol, UK.

Re: Bar lines within bars inhibit bar numbering

[Peter Toye]

Thanks Timothy,

I hadn't realised that you need to put in a dummy bar at the beginning \bar ""

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Thursday, December 12, 2019, 5:38:03 PM, Timothy Lanfear wrote:


The way to print the first bar number is explained in the first of the 
"Selected Snippets" of this section. 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/bars#bar-numbers

On 12/12/2019 17:32, Peter Toye wrote:

Re: Bar lines within bars inhibit bar numbering

Re: Bar lines within bars inhibit bar numbering

[Peter Toye]

Thursday, December 12, 2019, 4:39:43 PM, Rick Kimpel wrote:


Peter
You need an extra #
\override BarNumber.break-visibility = ##(#t #t #t)

So I do. Thanks. One day I'll get to grips with the tweaking syntax.


But that doesn't do what you're talking about. I had something similar in a 
piece with 4/4 + 3/4 time with a dotted barline. I ended up just manually 
renumbering the bars numbers with: 
\set Score.currentBarNumber
Probably not the solution you're looking for.
Unfortunately not. I don't want to change the bar number, just print it.




From: lilypond-user  on 
behalf of Peter Toye 
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 10:04 AM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org 
Subject: Bar lines within bars inhibit bar numbering 
 
The example below shows the issue. The mid-bar line with a \break does not show 
the bar number at the beginning of the next line - I would expect '2'. A \break 
at the end of a bar gives the expected result.

Also, the commented out line doesn't compile, and I can't see why, so can't see 
if it would make a difference. I cut-and-pasted the vector from the manual, but 
that's what the complier seems to be complaining about.
 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

\version "2.19.83"

\language "english"

\score {
  \new Staff {
\clef "treble"
\time 4/4
{
  %\override BarNumber.break-visibility = #(#t #t #t)
  c''1 2 \bar "||" \break
  \key f \major
  f'2
  f'1 1 \break
  1 1
}
  }
}

Re: Bar lines within bars inhibit bar numbering

[Peter Toye]

Thursday, December 12, 2019, 5:10:26 PM, Timothy Lanfear wrote:


Adding the layout block will number partial bars in brackets.

Brilliant. Thanks.



\version "2.19.83"
  
\language "english"

\layout {
  \context { \Score barNumberVisibility = #all-bar-numbers-visible }
}

\score {
  \new Staff {
\clef "treble"
\time 4/4
{
  \override BarNumber.break-visibility = ##(#t #t #t)
  c''1 2 \bar "||" \break
  \key f \major
  f'2
  f'1 1 \break
  1 1
}
  }
}




On 12/12/2019 16:39, Rick Kimpel wrote:


Peter
You need an extra #
\override BarNumber.break-visibility = ##(#t #t #t)

But that doesn't do what you're talking about. I had something similar in a 
piece with 4/4 + 3/4 time with a dotted barline. I ended up just manually 
renumbering the bars numbers with: 
\set Score.currentBarNumber
Probably not the solution you're looking for.


From: lilypond-user  on 
behalf of Peter Toye 
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 10:04 AM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org 
Subject: Bar lines within bars inhibit bar numbering 
 
The example below shows the issue. The mid-bar line with a \break does not show 
the bar number at the beginning of the next line - I would expect '2'. A \break 
at the end of a bar gives the expected result.

Also, the commented out line doesn't compile, and I can't see why, so can't see 
if it would make a difference. I cut-and-pasted the vector from the manual, but 
that's what the complier seems to be complaining about.
 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

\version "2.19.83"

\language "english"

\score {
  \new Staff {
\clef "treble"
\time 4/4
{
  %\override BarNumber.break-visibility = #(#t #t #t)
  c''1 2 \bar "||" \break
  \key f \major
  f'2
  f'1 1 \break
  1 1
}
  }
}
-- 
Timothy Lanfear, Bristol, UK.

Bar lines within bars inhibit bar numbering

[Peter Toye]

The example below shows the issue. The mid-bar line with a \break does not show 
the bar number at the beginning of the next line - I would expect '2'. A \break 
at the end of a bar gives the expected result.

Also, the commented out line doesn't compile, and I can't see why, so can't see 
if it would make a difference. I cut-and-pasted the vector from the manual, but 
that's what the complier seems to be complaining about.
 
Regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

\version "2.19.83"

\language "english"

\score {
  \new Staff {
\clef "treble"
\time 4/4
{
  %\override BarNumber.break-visibility = #(#t #t #t)
  c''1 2 \bar "||" \break
  \key f \major
  f'2
  f'1 1 \break
  1 1
}
  } 
}

Re: Overriding position of a full bar rest does not always work

[Peter Toye]

Kieren,

...but for this score I think I'll stick with what I know, or it'll never see 
the light of day.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, December 3, 2019, 6:00:32 PM, Kieren MacMillan wrote:

> Hi Peter,

>> I think this is the first time I've had to set a score of this complexity

> Welcome to the "deep end of the ’Pond”.  =)

>> I shall now rewrite large amounts of music

> The good news is, going forward you’ll be
> writing much more efficient, flexible,
> maintainable, and extensible Lilypond code!

> Best regards,
> Kieren.
> 

> Kieren MacMillan, composer (he/him/his)
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info

Re: Overriding position of a full bar rest does not always work

[Peter Toye]

Hello Kieren,

Thanks. I think this is the first time I've had to set a score of this 
complexity (which is pretty low compared with many I've seen). Thanks very much 
for the help. I shall now rewrite large amounts of music :(

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Monday, December 2, 2019, 12:54:31 PM, kieren_macmillan kieren_macmillan wrote:

> Hi Peter,

>> I've just thought of another reason not too use \mark for placing text for
>> tempo changes and expressive text: what happens if it's not at the beginning
>> of the bar?

> I think you’ve misunderstood. Using \mark
> doesn’t mean you stop using precise
> timing placement — of course you still need to do that!

> Here’s what I (and most serious Lilypond
> engravers I know) do: you have a
> completely separate variable that includes all
> score-level items (tempi,
> rehearsal marks, etc.), which are set using
> skips (so that they are placed at
> the correct point in the score, regardless of
> what’s contained in other voices).
> Then you add that variable to whatever
> context(s) need it (e.g., above the top
> staff, also above the string group in a full score, etc.).

> Hope that helps!
> Kieren.

Re: Problems with \table in \markuplist

[Peter Toye]

Hi Harm,

-
Monday, December 2, 2019, 1:31:09 PM, Thomas Morley wrote:

> Am Mo., 2. Dez. 2019 um 13:00 Uhr schrieb Peter
> Toye :

>> I'm trying to lay out text using a \table and have found (to date) two 
>> problems.

>> Firstly, the wordwrap feature doesn't seem to work. See Table 1. I've tried 
>> using \wordwrap-lines but the result is the same. Obviously I'm missing 
>> something but can't see what.

> You do:
> \wordwrap {"a very very very very very very very very long row 3"}
> i.e. wordwrap gets a markup-list with exactly one entry, a line-break
> will never happen this way.

> Either use wordwrap-string like:
> \markup
>   \override #'(line-width . 12)
>   \wordwrap-string
> "a very very very very very very very very
> very very very very long text 3"

> Or wardwrap with a suitable markuplist:
> \markup
>   \override #'(line-width . 12)
>   \wordwrap
> {
>  a very very very very very very very very
> very very very very long text 3
> }

Ah thanks, that works fine. \wordwrap-string doesn't seem to work in tables.

>> Secondly, the spacing between rows in a table doesn't seem quite right when 
>> I use columns. In Table 2, Row 2 the columns have the expected spacing but 
>> the space between the last line and row 3 is too small. It's correct for the 
>> gap between rows 3 and 4.

> Has nothing to do with the
> table-markup-list-command but with \column
> and similar markup-commands.
> See:
> \markup
>   \column {
> \box \column { a b }
> \box \column { a b }
>   }

> This minimal is fixable with:
> \markup
>   \override #'(baseline-skip . 6)
>   \column {
> \box \override #'(baseline-skip . 3) \column { a b }
> \box \override #'(baseline-skip . 3) \column { a b }
>   }

> Though I've currently no good idea how to do so in \table

I agree you can do it in a \markup. But I need it in the table. I've now tried 
to add \vspace after the columns, but t the results are not encouraging. There 
is now extra space between the bottom of the column and the next row, even with 
\vspace #0.

\version "2.19.52"

\language "english"

\markuplist  {
  "Table 2"
  \override #'( padding . 3 )
  \override #'( baseline-skip .  4 )
  \table #'(-1 -1)
  {
"Row 1"
"Text 1"
\column {
  "a column"
  "row 2"
}
\override #'( baseline-skip . 2.5 )
{\column {
  "a "
  "slightly"
  "but not much"
  "but sort of"
  "getting there"
  "longer"
  "text 2"
 }
}
\vspace #0
\vspace #0
"Row 3"
"Text 3"
"Row 4"
"Text 4"
  }
}

>> Two further questions that I can't find the answers to:

>> Is there a way of ensuring that two items in a markup list are not broken by 
>> a page break? For example, the title of a table and the first row.

> No, at least I know none.

Oh well, I can always add some vspace to bring the table title to the top of 
the next page.

>> How can I increase the distance between the page header and the first line 
>> of markup text following a page break?  Setting 
>> top-markup-spacing.basic-distance doesn't seem to work.

> Here again I'm sorry being of no help.

> Though this behaviour bugs me as well, here a less complex example:

Looks like this should be an issue. I imagine that markuplist isn't treated as 
markup here.

The major issue is that LP doesn't have proper word-processing facilities - nor 
should it - but trying to integrate documents with both text and music doesn't 
seem that easy. I've never looked at LATEX and would prefer not to have to at 
this stage in my life.

> Cheers,
>   Harm